miami to havana

This topic was created by louise
[Thu 1 April, 6:03 Tasmanian Standard Time]

I heard about a 'backdoor' flight from Miami airport to Havana. Apperantly its not advertised or shown on the boards at Miami but may be available to non US citizens. can anyone confirm this and tell me how I can arrange a flight.
Thanks

[There are 12 posts - the latest was added on Sat 24 April, 1:08]

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  1. the 411 Added by: DIAGO
    [Timestamp: Thu 1 April, 7:36 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    These flights leave Miami for Havana on Mondays and
    Saturdays. There are also flights to Holguin. The cost is
    $299 roundtrip. However, in order to get on these flights,
    you have to get permission from the U.S. Treasury
    Department. I don't believe the flights are available to
    non-U.S. citizens traveling for tourist reasons. However,
    you might want to call Airline Broker Company (ABC
    Charters) in Miami @ 305-871-1260 (3971 Southwest 8th
    Street, #307, Miami 33134) to verify this. You can also
    call Marazul Charters Inc. @ 305-644-0255 (Miami) or
    201-319-3900 (New Jersey) for help. They can help make the
    arrangement for anyone interested in taking these flights.
    Bear in mind, these are charter flights for people traveling
    for specific reasons. I don't think I would go so far as to
    call them "back door" flights - but good luck and let us
    know what happens!



  2. one person's experience Added by: coyoteway
    [Timestamp: Thu 1 April, 9:56 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    A friend took this flight some time ago--he just got on,
    went, and came back. Says he had no problems at all. Times
    may have changed....
    One correction: Treasury cannot and does not stop you from
    traveling to Cuba. No one does. Treasury just says it's
    illegal to spend U.S. money in Cuba, and they retain the
    right to grab you when you come back, if they feel up to it.



  3. Believe me Coyoteway, they feel up to it!!! Added by: John Doe
    [Timestamp: Thu 1 April, 12:00 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Coyoteway refers to the Treasury Department and says,
    "...they retain the right to detain you when you come back,
    if they feel up to it." Believe me Coyoteway. THEY FEEL UP
    TO IT! Of course, I have NOT been to Cuba, but the Treasury
    Department thinks I have been.
    -
    Since they think I have been, they are acting on the
    assumption that I have been, and are proceeding accordingly.
    No assurances from me that I have not gone to Cuba can
    convince them, so a group of lawyers are now handling the
    situation for me.
    -
    The situation is now in the third stage following a
    'prepenalty' notice of the exact amount of fine which they
    are planning to assess me.
    -
    There are many people who HAVE GONE to Cuba who have not had
    this happen to them, but just because one person has gone
    with no problems does not mean that everyone is able to do
    so.
    -
    I know a person who made ten trips to Cuba without
    encountering a problem with customs or with the Treasury
    Department. And just think, a person such as I, a person who
    has never been to Cuba, is now faced with a HUGE fine.
    That's what can happen when one buys Cuban cigars in Cancun
    or Nassau and tries to bring them back to the U.S.
    -
    And to think, I am a non-smoker who just bought a few Cuban
    cigars for some friends!!!



  4. Re: Treasury Dept. Added by: Stuball (stuball@sk.sympatico.ca)
    [Timestamp: Thu 1 April, 17:57 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    John Doe;
    Hope you make out OK in winning your case. Do you think
    this is the usual Treasury Dept. policy in harassing you
    this way, or is some snotty-nose asshole in the Dept. on a
    power trip?



  5. Thank Stuball Added by: John Doe
    [Timestamp: Fri 2 April, 2:51 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    I appreciate your interest Stuball. No, I don't think this
    is the usual procedure for the Treasury Department at all. I
    think it was simply a situation inwhich a customs agent had
    a bad day or was enamored with the power of his position and
    decided to make a 'grand' federal case of a minor federal
    offense.
    -
    The agent had every right to do what he did. My attempting
    to return to the U.S. with a Cuban product was a clear
    violation of the long-standing embargo against Cuba. It was,
    however, a violation that is most often handled differently.
    Sometimes the traveler will be allowed to keep the items.
    More often the items will simply be confiscated. On rare
    occasions the agent will revel in wielding the power of his
    position and decide to 'punish' the unlucky traveler by
    writing him up and having him sign a form acknowledging the
    items which were confiscated.
    -
    Once the traveler has been written up by customs, the
    Treasury Department becomes involved and the traveler is
    subject to the full range of the possible penalties, which
    can include a $250,000 fine.
    -
    But back to answering your question Stuball. I agree with
    your assessment that it was someone on a power trip, but
    rather than it being a person in the Treasury Department, I
    feel that it was the customs agent. He was the one
    glorifying in the power of his position.
    -
    I got the distinct impression that the custom agent's
    supervisor was not overly thrilled with the agent's heroic
    efforts. He left me at his counter under the supervision of
    a female agent for about 15-20 minutes while he talked with
    his supervisor in an inner office.
    -
    My flight was due to leave, so after fifteen minmutes I
    requested that the lady find out what they planned to do and
    if they intended to make me miss my flight. She went to the
    office. Word was sent to the gate to hold my flight, and she
    told me that the agent was with his supervisor.
    -
    The supervisor walked from his office to the counter, looked
    around, and without saying a word, returned to his office.
    -
    The diligent, hard-working agent returned and had me sign a
    form acknowledging the confiscation of the cigars. I was
    then permitted to board my flight.
    -
    The behavior of the supervisor and the resultant attitude of
    the customs agent gave me reason to think that perhaps the
    agent had not received a glowing commendation for his
    actions. Regardless of what the supervisor felt or thought
    about making a 'federal case' over a few cigars, I am still
    faced with the follow-up actions of the Treasury Department.
    -
    Getting back to answering your question, no, I don't feel
    this is the usual policy of either U.S. Customs or the
    Treasury Department. I feel that it is an abberation, but it
    is one that ANY traveler is subject to. Finding oneself in a
    legal nightmare can be entirely dependent on the whims and
    fancy of a customs agent.
    -
    I feel that hundreds of U.S. citizens DO go to Cuba without
    having this happen to them. I feel that the risk in going to
    Cuba is minimal, but the risk is real and does exist.
    -
    Thanks Stuball for your interest and your best wishes. This
    message is not intended as an attempt to dissuade anyone
    from going to Cuba. It is simply to let travelers know that
    problems can and do arise, and one should consider in
    advance how he/she will respond if such a problem does
    arise.
    -
    Dan Snow from Texas is another U.S. citizen who has
    encountered a bit of a problem with the Treasury department
    over going to Cuba. Unsubstantiated reports indicate than
    Dan has been to Cuba more than 150 times. He and I are the
    only two that I have personal knowledge of having a problem
    with OFAC over this issue.
    -
    If others out there have had a similar problem, perhaps they
    can offer some insight throught this forum. It could be that
    those who have had a problem have come to the same
    conclusion that I have. I feel that perhaps the customs
    service can and does surf the WWW researching methods
    travelers use in going to Cuba and avoiding scrutiny by the
    customs upon their return.
    -
    In February, 1999 the nonprofit, international organization
    called Global Exchange based in California posted a message
    on a news group stating that the group had received a "cease
    and desist" order from The Office of Foreign Assets Control
    (OFAC) demanding that they stop organizing travel to cuba
    for U.S. citizens. The order also demanded that the group
    provide the names of all participants on such trips since
    March 1996.
    -
    Global Exchange has refused to comply with that order. I am
    not aware of any recent developments regarding this issue.
    The 'wheels of justice' grind slowly, so it may be months
    and even years before those who participated in those trips
    will know whether they will be prosecuted for traveling to
    Cuba.
    -
    The posting continues, "We at Global Exchange view the cease
    and desist order as a significant threat but also an
    incredible opportunity...for a major struggle with OFAC."
    They have sought the assistance of the same group of lawyers
    who are representing me. They, too, have garnered the
    support of the Center for Constitutional Rights from New
    York.
    -
    Global Exchange applied for a Cuba travel providers license
    in 1994. They also submitted numerous requests for travel
    licenses to OFAC over a period of several years, all to no
    avail.
    -
    The restrictions on travel to Cuba and the prosecution or
    levying of fines on those who do travel to Cuba are very
    questionable in view of the United States current stand in
    Europe. The U.S. prides itself on being a model of democracy
    and human rights, yet it prosecutes or fines its citizens
    who are accused of going to Cuba.
    -
    This U.S. policy as well as the economic embargo against
    Cuba is being questioned more and more by other countries in
    the world. The U.S. rightly spotlights human rights
    violations in Cuba. Other countries are beginning to ask
    more and more questions of the U.S. policy towards its own
    citizens, as well as the policy toward Cuba.
    -
    Perhaps questions are due to be asked on all sides!



  6. Other points... Added by: Wayfarer
    [Timestamp: Sat 3 April, 13:51 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    coyoteway--it is a bit of a falacy regarding the Treasury
    Dept thing about not spending money in Cuba. That has
    always been the argument, but things are a changin' in our
    fine government. If you are caught going to Cuba it is not
    a matter of saying, "Oh geewilickers, you caught me going
    to Cuba, but I didn't spend any money there, prove it!"
    No, what YOU have to prove is that you didn't spend money
    there, not that the US Treasury Dept has to prove that you
    did. This is a recent change (I think within the past
    year?) and changes the burden of proof to the traveler--
    actually, a pretty novel way of "turning the tables" IMHO.

    John Doe--I think your original moniker was posted here
    before, but now that it is John Doe, so be it...although
    Jose Doe seems better ;-P. Man oh man, why not just take
    the Cohiba "collars" off the cigars, hide them, and then
    paste them back on when you got to North America? What?
    You bought a whole case? Yikes, I don't know, you're
    playing with fire (and the ironic part is, is that you
    might have bought fake ones). Fuck the cigar thing, I
    purposely had Cuban Immigration put a stamp in my passport
    when I went to Cuba...stupid, eh?

    Yeah, Dan Snow is for real and I think it's more than 150
    trips to Cuba. He was written up in the Austin American
    Statesman (or whatever the local rag is called there) this
    past fall. I saw the article. They have a website, you
    might check it out.



  7. INS Added by: mikey (m_silk@hotmail.com)
    [Timestamp: Sun 11 April, 11:06 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    it's nothing new that you're guilty until proven innocent in the eyes of the INS. at a border crossing the usual rules of justice INSIDE the USA don't work (and are not guaranteed constitutionally or otherwise, i.e. you have NO rights) and if they think you are up to anything they'll cause you grief.
    i'm a canadian who has crossed over at buffalo dozens of times and even though i've never overstayed a visitor visa or worked illegally in the states get asked more than the usual number of questions and detained in their office for yet more questions by gun-toting officers at the wrong end of the 'peace' bridge, most times, simply because i'm a youngish male with a fairly old car.
    as for going to cuba, if it's through canada just don't say so to the americans when you get back.



  8. Miami to Habana by boat ? Added by: Jeanette (Jeanette-Leitner@excite.com)
    [Timestamp: Mon 12 April, 18:47 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Can anyone tell me if it is possible to go from Miami to
    Havana or anywhere else in Cuba by boat ?
    Thanks



  9. ACT NOW Added by: Steve (sjdavis98@hotmail.com)
    [Timestamp: Mon 19 April, 8:46 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    So much for the land of the free and the home of the brave.
    As a proud U.S. Citizen, I have to tell you that I find it
    horseshit that the State Department tells me where I can or
    can not go. I have been to Cuba twice. Both times via the
    Cayman Islands. Both times using a Canadian Passport (I was
    born stateside and raised in Canada) why is it that our
    politicians need to take lessons from neighbors in Ottawa
    Ontario? CALL JESSE HELMS. Let him know that embargoes do
    not work. They didn't in 1962, and, 37 years later they
    still don't. My advice in going to Cuba is this: Fly via
    either Cancun or Toronto. Immigration in Havana will stamp
    a piece of paper that you can throw out when you leave.
    Just let them know that you do not want your US Passport
    stamped.
    Hope this helps, and my most sincere wishes to the poor lad
    dealing with Federal Red Tape - Miami lobbyist bullshit.



  10. Thanks to all! Added by: John Doe
    [Timestamp: Tue 20 April, 7:46 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Thanks to everyone for the kind thoughts and best wishes. I
    have heard nothing from OFAC since January, and I adopt the
    view that 'no news is good news'.
    -
    Your insight and recall are pretty good Wayfarer! I
    untimately received the copy of the article from the Austin
    newspaper to which you refer. It was sent by the person whom
    you suggested I contact. Thanks!
    -
    Did anyone notice the announcement last week (April 16,
    1999) that fashion magazine Harper's Bazaar paid a $31,000
    fine to settle allegatins that Harper's violated the U.S.
    economic embargo against Cuba?
    -
    The violations were the result of Harper's Bazaar paying 10
    individuals for participating in a photo shoot in Cuba last
    year.
    -
    The magazine paid for airfare as well as for transportation,
    lodging, and meals for the participants.
    -
    Two Miami charter groups also paid fines to OFAC over
    allegations that they were operating charter flights between
    Nassau and Havana. C&T Charters paid a $125,000 fine and
    Wilson International Services Inc. paid $61,000 for
    violations cited by OFAC.
    -
    As I mentioned earlier, the wheels of justice grind slowly.
    It is difficult to know when and to what extent OFAC will
    pursue those whom they think have violated the embargo. I
    prefer not to find out!
    -
    Chao to all!



  11. DO NOT WORRY TOO MUCH Added by: Jean Pierre
    [Timestamp: Wed 21 April, 11:49 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Although not an American but Canadian,please do not worry
    too much.
    Lonely Planet Guide to Cuba (1997)reported that a few
    Americans received notices,letters etc but as at that
    time,nothing else afterwards.
    As per the Magazine you mentionned,let us say ,that this is
    the way publicity is made....
    Walmart US and Walmart Canada had quite a show on this
    matter last year when the latest imported and offered for
    sale Cuban Pyjamas and Us authorities advised of such went
    to Wallmart US and threatened them with a fine of $50,000 a
    day as per Helms Burton Law and Canada replied to Walmart
    Canada with a fine of $1 million a day .
    As seen on TV,consumers in Canada bought them all within
    less than 2 days...
    US is also VERY MUCH PREOCCUPIED with US Investors who wants
    to invest in Cuba.
    Too many countries and investors of those are being
    priviliged in Cuba.
    Therefore the threat that you received,before going any
    further may be well considered since the authorities would
    want to make an example???
    I personnaly doubt it
    Non official figures of CIA reveals us that 150,000
    Americans are visiting Cuba.
    Let me know how this turns up and you have my respect for
    your action



  12. Thanks J. Pierre Added by: John Doe
    [Timestamp: Sat 24 April, 1:08 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Thanks Jean Pierre (and everyone else) for your thoughts.
    It's always good to get additional information such as that
    concerning the situation with Walmart. Many different bits
    and pieces can help to make the total picture clearer.
    -
    I am not OVERLY concerned with the situation with OFAC, but
    I must admit that I do have some concerns. Those concerns
    are not enough to prevent me from traveling whenever
    possible.
    -
    My net amigo Wayfarer mentions (facetiously I hope) my
    having a case of cigars. It was only a couple of boxes, but
    any amount is dangerous. Upon rereading the official rules
    and regulations from OFAC at their website, I have come to
    the conclusion that it is left somewhat to the discretion of
    the individual customs official as to whether he will
    confiscate the items or permit the traveler to keep them.
    -
    I have experienced this personally. On another trip to a
    location where Cuban cigars and Cuban rum were available, I
    was returning with a bottle of Cuban rum and a box of Cuban
    cigars (ONE box Wayfarer :-) !)
    -
    The U.S. customs agent searched my luggage and found both
    the cigars and the rum. After she had confiscated both, I
    said, "At least let me keep the rum!" She smiled and slid
    the bottle back across to me.
    -
    Humanity and reason do prevail at times!
    -
    Jean Pierre, concerning my dilemma with OFAC, the lawyer
    handling my case is in the process of making OFAC a token
    offer much, much smaller than the amount they are asking to
    settle my case. I will definitely keep the group posted
    about the outcome. Thanks for being interested.
    -
    I also appreciate those who have had the decency to refrain
    from saying, "That's a bunch of crap! The U.S. would never
    do such a thing! You must be making it up." There have been
    a couple who have said, "NO ONE has ever been fined for
    going to Cuba."
    -
    I haven't been fined yet, but it does seem to be in the
    works.




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