Lost people

This topic was created by Billy
[Thu 13 May, 1:39 Tasmanian Standard Time]

I read and heard jokes from African-American being happy
they have been slaves and taken out of Africa. They are
actually the first, and hardest attackers and critics of
this wonderful Continent. I'm an American who lived in West
Africa (notably Cote d'Ivoire and Ghana) for 18 years and I
just can't conceive rejecting such a wonderful land if my
origins were linked to it. What do you think the problem of
African-American might be so that they insist so badly on
distaching themselves from Africa?

[There are 24 posts - the latest was added on Tue 25 May, 3:58]

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  1. money isn't everything.. Added by: $$$$$$
    [Timestamp: Thu 13 May, 3:45 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Money isn't everything, nor do I know your standard of living, but the MAJORITY of black africans don't have it too easy.



  2. To the Contrary Added by: Dana
    [Timestamp: Thu 13 May, 6:56 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Billy,
    I too am American and have observed that most African-American citizens that live here tend to romanticize the continent. Maybe the comments you have heard are from U.S. citizens visiting and discovering that Africa is not their imagined utopia after all but a land filled with good AND bad things. Also, it would take them a while to adjust to "africa time."



  3. Billy, Added by: Steve
    [Timestamp: Thu 13 May, 16:02 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Most Americans other than recent immigrants have lost touch
    with their ancestral countries of origin, and why should
    that be any different for blacks? Black Americans are
    Americans, they are not Africans, and I don't find it
    surprising that some of them have rejected all the Afro
    centric crap that gets flung their way by the media. I
    applaud them for that!

    Black Americans are clearly better off than Africans, and
    to say that they are glad their ancestors were brought to
    this country, even if through the evils of slavery,
    actually makes a fair bit on sense.



  4. patriotism Added by: peta (petafulton@hotmail.com)
    [Timestamp: Thu 13 May, 16:18 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    hey where were you living and what were you doing in ghana
    and ivory coast?
    why is it americans always focus on being americans? More
    than any other people travelling the planet Americans are so
    self absorbed.



  5. Read "Out of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa" Added by: Mags
    [Timestamp: Thu 13 May, 16:52 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    This is by Keith Richburg and is an excellent, if
    controversial, book. Keith is a black American journalist
    who spent three years in Africa covering the important
    issues at that time (e.g. Somalia, Rwanda, etc). He
    concludes that he is very happy to be an American as he
    doesn't identify with the land of his ancestors and all the
    violence & hopelessness that he sees. Well written and
    highly recommended book.



  6. From what I know Added by: White guy
    [Timestamp: Fri 14 May, 2:09 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    well, from what I've heard, there's quite a bit of
    animosity towards black-americans from black africans. That
    could be what you mean.



  7. White Guy, Added by: Steve
    [Timestamp: Fri 14 May, 3:59 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    In the USA I think that may well be true. African
    immigrants tend to want to dissociate themseleves from the
    crime and social problems of black Americans, but in
    Africa, I saw nothing but great respect for Black
    Americans. Africans admire, and want to emulate the
    success they see in Black America.



  8. Not a Yank Added by: Wilton
    [Timestamp: Fri 14 May, 15:47 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    but I spoke with several Black Americans in my time in
    Africa and they all were severely disillusioned by "the
    motherland." It was not at all what they imagined. One of
    them said something to the effect of,"It's sort of tough
    coming to grips with the fact that leaving Africa was the
    best thing that ever happened to black people. My great-
    great grandparents suffered immeasurably in slavery so that
    I might prosper." I thought that was a sad, but undeniably
    true statement.



  9. Slavery Not A Black Issue! Added by: Macha
    [Timestamp: Sat 15 May, 8:26 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    When blacks were slaves, white women, stripped to the waist
    and starving, were pulling trucks of coal on their hands
    and knees through the Welsh coal pits, and white children
    were being forced down chimneys. White men were deported
    to a life of hard labour in Australia for stealing a loaf
    of bread. Slavery was not unique to Africans. It applied
    (and still does) to impoverished people all over the
    world. If we all recognised that blacks were not the only
    people who suffered, there would be a lot less racial
    predudice. Think about it.



  10. An African-American Opinion Added by: Malcolm
    [Timestamp: Mon 17 May, 0:07 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    ... Where do you get off assuming that African-Americans
    are the hardest critics of Africa or that we joke that we
    are HAPPY to have been taken off as Slaves! Screw You! I
    call you a liar. Do you hear Jews joking about the
    holocaust? No! The same with us ... both were comparable
    disasters and we feel it in ourt hearts, you schmuck!
    African-Americans so rarely can afford to get out of the US
    to go anywhere, so why would they go to Africa and make
    comments that I hear from whites in the US all the time?
    The poster above who said we see ourselves as Americans
    first is absolutley right and Africans see African-
    Americans as a "tribe" of unknown people ... who appear
    rich. They look right through us just as any two different
    peoples in Africa would.
    You are the one with the "romantic" image of Africa...why
    would you live there for 18 years and all you could come up
    with to offer about Africa is this ridiculous topic!! Easy
    for a white man to say such things. (ah look! you just got
    a taste of my ancient African culture ... resentment of
    white interference) I am sure the Africans where you live
    say this behind your back all the time.
    My question is "Why do white Americans (or Europeans) go to
    Africa thinking they are changing the world and living in a
    wonderful idyllic world where all is happiness!?" Sheer
    fantasy ... when I was in Africa and I see whites waxing
    poetically about how WONDERFUL it is there, it is the ONLY
    time the Africans look in my eyes and we mentally transmit
    the question "What is this European moron talking about??"
    I can only shrug my shoulders ... thats what happens when
    you're comfortable living on the deaths and exploitation of
    tens millions, you anthropomorphize the entire event and
    history into a cute cuddly animal or kind wizened, but
    shild-like people!
    I love my cultural heritage as an African and American ...
    jeez we built this country's entire 16th-19th century
    economies for FREE! (Scholars say over $10 Trillion dollars
    of free labor) What I suspect happened is you heard an
    African-American joking around, just as you have, probably
    because sometimes living in sub-Saharan Africa SUCKS for
    anyone who isn't a native. tell me you've never really
    been upset and I'll tell you you never went to Africa.
    Take your semi-racist, pseudo-intellectual butt back to
    Ghana where you can "master" over people who you don't
    really know, don't understand and never will understand.
    The reason you are there is because you obviously can't
    compete with the modern world so you go to Africa and live
    the colonial master's life. Typical loser.



  11. Slow your roll partner Added by: Billy
    [Timestamp: Wed 19 May, 11:43 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    How do you get off like that Malcom? Why so much animosity
    towards someone you don't even know. You're making some
    preposterous comments such as my thinking I am the "Savior"
    of Africa. Well, how can you talk about Africa if you've
    probably just been there as a tourist? Let me tell you
    something sir, I lived there, worked there, fought there in
    the hope of ameliorating the social condition of the
    citizens. Do you think I was endowed with millions of
    dollars in exchange? This is an aberration! At least I can
    say that I share something with the citizens of Ghana and
    Ivory Coast. I speak Bete, Baoule and tshui fluently. Let me
    return the question to you: What contribution have you
    brought to Africa. You're sitting in the comfort and luxury
    of a country that provides social security to its less
    fortunate elements and your apathy does not permit you to
    realize that in Africa, if you don't fight for success,
    you're left for dead in the street like a miserable beggar.
    Yes, I had my share of tremendous poverty there, but my
    pride is to say that, unlike you, I WAS THERE.



  12. I know what Billy is talking about! Added by: Peter
    [Timestamp: Wed 19 May, 11:59 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Malcom, the truth might hurt sometimes but Billy's opinion
    is not so far from the truth. Where in the US have you seen
    a jew making silly jokes about the hollocaust or the social
    condition of their fellow comrade in Israel? Have you ever
    come across an Italian-American making racist jokes against
    Italians? NO, personally I haven't. Do you follow these
    comedy show on BET sometimes, or these Appolli theater
    comedy shows? True African-Americans making jokes about the
    poverty and misery of Africans. This comedian, Eddy, from
    the TV Show Malcom & Eddy, made a joke on BET about flies
    flying around the Ethiopians they show on TV. I am really
    sorry but I do not think that this is not a sign of a deep
    rooted shame towards Africa from the African-American.
    However, I do not blame my Afro-Americans compatriotes, I
    believe that shame towards their origin was forcefully
    induced to them during the time of slavery by the white man.
    I believe it was a strategy to divide Afro-Americans so
    that, by taking away their pride, they could not possibly
    fight back. What makes the American-jews so strong? The
    fact that they know their history, and, therefore are able
    to stand strong and united. Unfortunately, this notion of
    shame has sinked deep in the mind of some African-Americans
    and Liberia is the perfect example of it. If you need to
    know more about the history of Liberia then let me know and
    I will be glad to enlighten you my brother.



  13. Right On Malcolm! Added by: Raymond
    [Timestamp: Thu 20 May, 4:06 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    I couldn't said it better myself. The Whites don't know a
    clue of the oppression Black Americans suffered during
    slavery. As a Black American I'm proud of my heritage and
    don't want to be White. I read about Africa for years and
    the individual countries that made the continent. Who wants
    to be "enlightened" on the interpetion of a racist
    individual who has not set foot in a African land? Besides,
    your countries are not perfect either.



  14. Right On Malcolm! Added by: Raymond
    [Timestamp: Thu 20 May, 4:06 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    I couldn't said it better myself. The Whites don't know a
    clue of the oppression Black Americans suffered during
    slavery. As a Black American I'm proud of my heritage and
    don't want to be White. I read about Africa for years and
    the individual countries that made the continent. Who wants
    to be "enlightened" on the interpetion of a racist
    individual who has not set foot in a African land? Besides,
    your countries are not perfect either.



  15. Right On Malcolm! Added by: Raymond
    [Timestamp: Thu 20 May, 4:07 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    I couldn't said it better myself. The Whites don't know a
    clue of the oppression Black Americans suffered during
    slavery. As a Black American I'm proud of my heritage and
    don't want to be White. I read about Africa for years and
    the individual countries that made the continent. Who wants
    to be "enlightened" on the interpetion of a racist
    individual who has not set foot in a African land? Besides,
    your countries are not perfect either.



  16. Right On Malcolm! Added by: Raymond
    [Timestamp: Thu 20 May, 4:07 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    I couldn't said it better myself. The Whites don't know a
    clue of the oppression Black Americans suffered during
    slavery. As a Black American I'm proud of my heritage and
    don't want to be White. I read about Africa for years and
    the individual countries that made the continent. Who wants
    to be "enlightened" on the interpetion of a racist
    individual who has not set foot in a African land? Besides,
    your countries are not perfect either.



  17. Further more Added by: Billy
    [Timestamp: Fri 21 May, 23:25 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Raymond, no offense but have you ever read my comments? Are
    you saying I have never been to Africa? Get with the program
    my friend, and re-read my post if you have to. My first
    contact with Ivory Coast in West Africa was when I was an
    envoy of the World Bank. My goal was to determine the funds
    needed to improve the quality of schools in the Northen
    regions. So much for my contribution right? I fought these
    "jerks" at the World Bank who did not deemed necessary to go
    on with this program because of some racist view that it
    would be useless. Now, my friend Malcom, talking about my
    fear of the "competitng world". If I'm afraid of the
    competing world, but strive to put schools on a faster pace
    so that they can better serve the young minds of the future
    generation of Africa to take part in the Global economy,
    then I think it makes you a bigger sell out of your origins.
    I do not need you to call me a "romantizer" of Africa,
    because I know the reality of things there, being that I was
    born In Accra Ghana. I repeat my question, what have you
    done for Africa? You are a bigger loser if you went there as
    a mere tourist and probably acted like a rock-a-fella
    flashing your dollars. If you know that you haven't raised
    a finger to improve anything in Africa, then to not step on
    my toes you sell out.



  18. Further more Added by: Billy
    [Timestamp: Fri 21 May, 23:26 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Raymond, no offense but have you ever read my comments? Are
    you saying I have never been to Africa? Get with the program
    my friend, and re-read my post if you have to. My first
    contact with Ivory Coast in West Africa was when I was an
    envoy of the World Bank. My goal was to determine the funds
    needed to improve the quality of schools in the Northen
    regions. So much for my contribution right? I fought these
    "jerks" at the World Bank who did not deem necessary to go
    on with this program because of some racist view that it
    would be useless. Now, my friend Malcom, talking about my
    fear of the "competitng world". If I'm afraid of the
    competing world, but strive to put schools on a faster pace
    so that they can better serve the young minds of the future
    generation of Africa to take part in the Global economy,
    then I think it makes you a bigger sell out of your origins.
    I do not need you to call me a "romantizer" of Africa,
    because I know the reality of things there, being that I was
    born In Accra Ghana. I repeat my question, what have you
    done for Africa? You are a bigger loser if you went there as
    a mere tourist and probably acted like a rock-a-fella
    flashing your dollars. If you know that you haven't raised
    a finger to improve anything in Africa, then do not step on
    my toes you sell out.



  19. A Black-European impression Added by: Bruno
    [Timestamp: Sat 22 May, 0:00 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    For those who don't know it yet, I am what the Americans
    call Bi-racial: I'm partly French, and partly from Sierra
    Leon (which is a country in West Africa for those who are to
    lazy to check on a world map). I know you Billy, we met at
    the Economic Commission for Africa last U.N conference.
    English isn't my first language so bear with me. Malcom, I
    agree with you when you say that most white people are the
    ones who make such statements as "African-American are happy
    they became slaves because they are better off now". It's
    undoubtfully true. But I would also have to go with Peter's
    opinion on the fact that, unlike the other Americans with
    various origins, SOME, and I said some, African-Americans
    have imbeded this notion of shame towards Africa (even
    though they probably don't know much about it). I also
    agree with Peter on the fact that it was a colonial strategy
    to weaken any plan of unification amongst the blacks. The
    solution would be to better inform the young ones on the
    continent of their origin. If only they knew that Africa
    wasn't just a land you visit to see some animals; but, also
    a continent with people, cities, sky-scrappers, and an
    economic system, they could be prouder. How can we blame
    the young African-Americans when, on CNN, the only time they
    talk about Africa is to tell some gruesome tales of
    massacre. Have you notice the bad choice of words the media
    employs when it comes to Africa? "There is war in Africa"
    (can somebody tell them that it isn't a country, but a
    continent?), "Barbaric massacre", "savagery","slaughter"
    etc...(especially in the case of the genocide in Rwanda,
    which was obviously not worthy of attention to the media
    being that it was "Niggers, killing niggers", so "less
    niggers in the world"). Have you notice the choice of words
    when it comes to the same kind of genocide happening in
    Yougoslavia? "the killing of the mass", "genocide", "clean
    death", "execution", and the heavy media coverage of the
    situation. Billy is a white man, but one who fights the
    racist bastards in the financial institutions and struggles
    for a better Africa. Let's not be too unfair with him.
    Black people in France where I live, are more united and
    more aware of Africa than the African-Americans due to the
    fact that there isn't such a big negative propaganda on
    Africa here. African do in fact admire African-Americans,
    but they are often disapointed when they come accross a
    Black American who interact with them in the same way a
    white man would have had.



  20. Far from a Sell Out Added by: Raymond
    [Timestamp: Sun 23 May, 4:33 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    I read about Africa from the pages of Ebony,Jet,Emerge,and
    The Final Call along with major Black newpapers. For Billy
    I don't think that a White man like yourself has any
    authority on Africa then the typical African. To call me a
    sell out in league of Sambimi,Thebmbe,and the homeland
    Black leaders of Apartheid South Africa is a outrage. My
    countrymen in Black America gave a lot to the Motherland so
    check yourself.



  21. Raymond Added by: Billy
    [Timestamp: Sun 23 May, 5:06 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    So all you know of Africa takes essence in your lectures? I
    hope you'll have the chance to experience the homeland in
    your lifetime. I do not recall calling you a sell out Sir.
    However, I disagree when you say that black America gave a
    lot to Africa. If you get a chance to elaborate your
    opinion, then mind doing so. As far as I'm concerned,
    Africa has been overexploited by the western world, and no
    significant compensation have been given up to today.



  22. MACHA, it's a different kind of slavery Added by: Billy
    [Timestamp: Sun 23 May, 5:19 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Macha, the slavery you are labelling as "the white slavery"
    is not identical to the black slavery. The people sent to
    Australia were actual criminals (whether be a piece of bread
    they stole or other) and were serving a sentence. They were
    forced to work on the field but not lynched. The black
    slavery functionned on a different note; it was colored with
    racism. Sons and daughters of African Kings, priests,
    members of the high nobility, and common farmers as well,
    were taken together, without regard to their title and
    without commiting a crime, to America to serve as slaves.
    Why? Simply because they were black, and believed to be
    inferior. It is both a mental and physical slavery,
    contrarily to the slavery you described. Not only were they
    brought here, they were hunted down like animals and lynched
    for the fun of it. Even the jewish hollocaust is not
    comparable to the African Hollocaust which prevailed for
    centuries. Sorry Macha, but it would be unfair to compare
    both cases of slavery.



  23. Not a black and white issue (per say) Added by: Microkid
    [Timestamp: Tue 25 May, 3:21 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    I have never been to africa and once only briefly to
    america so may ignore my comment.
    I simply wish to point out that many africans were
    themselves involved in selling slaves - it was a common
    thing to do with POWs from an enemy tribe. Many people
    and many races were to blame for the mass slave trade to
    america.
    I am in no way attempting to absolve the white europeans of
    their enourmous guilt at basically buggering up the
    contintent and generally thinking they were superior.
    With the "how black americans view black africans" debate I
    think overriding influence is that you have people from a
    1st world nation looking and comparing their situations with
    a 3rd world country.



  24. The truth of the matter Added by: Billy
    [Timestamp: Tue 25 May, 3:58 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    That is an interesting point you've mentioned Microkid.
    However, I do firmly believe that the statement made by
    numerous European historians affirming that most slaves were
    sold by their own African companions is totally mendacious.
    It is just another way for them to justify slavery, and cast
    the blame on someone else. I am not neglecting the fact that
    indeed, a very few minority of African salves were sold by
    some kings. Here is a perfect reason why: I come to your
    place with canons and riffles, break your door at night and
    ask you, as an African King, to either provide me with 15
    people or suffer that I slaughter every member of your
    community- including your own family. You don't have much
    choice now do you? Here is something that historians
    intentionally omit; it was give a few or I take the whole.




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