I'm planning to visit South Africa and I want to know where
in that country are the most racist? Since the Afrikanners
have not moved out, I wanted to find out the location where
I would stay away from. Apartheid is gone but the evil
Afrikanner remains. I welcome all sugestions.
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Brakpan, a suburb of Jo'bug is full of racists. It is
important realize that we may consider racist may not be
considered racist is SA. It's similar to the deepsouth in
the US. They consider themselves to be superior creatures
to that of the blacks but don't consider themselves racist.
Where would you have expected the "Evil Afrikaners" to have gone? There is evil everywhere and to say white South Africans are particularly bad is silly. In every country on earth there is fear and predjudice towards different races. At least the Afrikaners are honest about it! I always thought the ideal goal was to win the hearts of our "enemies" not categorize them as EVIL and write them off.
Grow up!
I don't think that the comments of curious are fair..before
i went to SA i thought that all the white people there were
a bunch racists and extremists. the way that the media
represented SA during the apartheid era was wrong. they
bundles all the whites together into one category even
though without the support of much of the white community
and apartheid would not have ended. From what was being
said about the whites is SA you can't blame anyone for not
wanting to see the hatred that they are told of.
Well, gotto tell you one thing!! The centre of Johannesburg
is full of racists - That's why it is so dangerous to be in
Johannesburg...
If you feel like this "Moenie na Suid-Afrika toe kom nie,
die boere sal jou moer!!"
In the tourist areas you won't find any of the people you
refer to. RELAX - every country has it's evil people -
simply be wise!
I work in Johannesburg - the real inner city. Just don't be
stupid!
There are racists everywhere in South Africa, as there are
in every country in the world - (What about Kosovo, Bosnia
Rawanda to name but a recent few.) It's true that the
Afrikaaners kept the Apartheid regime going for a long time.
Many have come to think differently since the changes but
some will never change. You'll meet both kinds everywhere
you go in South Africa. Go there with an open mind - it's a
beautiful country, most people are very hospitable and they
are grateful that tourists are still going there inspite of
the bad publicity about crime. Enjoy it but take care
especially in and around Johannesburg - and to Ha (above)
Brakpan is not a suburb of Johannesburg it's a satelite town
on the Wit
Your type of mentallity should maybe not leave your OWN
front door!
I wished there are good Afrikaans like Fugard but, there are
more Verwoerds,Malans and Tereblanches to make South Africa
a bad place. As a Black American, I believe the Afrikaans
made Jim Crow a science in South Africa. Thankfully the
Slovos and Sussmans made the country a better place. If the
Afrikaans hate the Blacks so intensly why not move to a
White country like Australia or Russia? To the people who
informed me of the dangerous area I give my thanks and
welcome more info-knoledge is indeed power.
believe it or not according to Eddie Smiths book 'Native
Stranger' you should have more in common with White
Africans as a Black American. Read it, it's an eye opener...
When we visited South Africa we were so warmly greeted I
couldn't really comment on racism. Sure ,we met some whites
with racists thoughts. But on the whole I would have to say
of all the places we have been the hospitality shown in
SA was fabulous. For example, we would pitch our tent in
the afternoon, and before we were finished we would have
been approached by other campers from SA to come and have
tea with them. We really felt so special. Most folk were
so happy to have contact with the outside world and tell
them they are not as bad as everyone believes.
And to Raymond, you mustn't have been to Australia for a
while, its white territory no more. We are truely the
multicultural country - you need only to open your eyes
and see how many Nationalities - white, black, yellow
are on the street on any given day.
To the person above I'm pleased you had a wonderful time in
South Africa. Are you White or Black? The treatment is much
different if the traveller is Black. As for Plastic I don't
have anything in common because my parents and grandparents
lived in racially segregated state and took a civil rights
movement to free them from the oppression. Mississippi had
a South African spying system from the 1950's to the 70's.
I've wished the Black Americans started the santions after
Soweto than under the Reagan regime.
you'll find a certain number of annoying people anywhere; you just have to deal with it as you would in america. as for how a black american gets received there, i have no idea but would be interested in hearing of the outcome. i suspect anglo whites will be just fine, but afrikaners and blacks would act weird. (i am white, born in SA but brought up in canada).
another view, above, has to be white australian. 'black' there means aboriginal and not african (despite claims to multiculturalism there are almost zero africans in australia). "wog" is the local putdown for those of greek or italian descent -- even that is too dark to be considered normal. i've a very good friend who is of chinese/singaporean descent and grew up in australia thinking the locals seemed reasonably tolerant of 'outsiders.' that is, until she arrived in toronto and discovered that most people don't care where you came from, just who you are.
i've dared to be the first on this thread to post a real email address because i don't mind answering same. raymond especially, enjoy the trip and tell me about it later.
Americans are obsessed with race. If there is no problem, one will be invented. I can say this because I am an American and am totally sick and tired of this diatribe. There is TOO much invested in the "Racial Problem" to ever let it go. Too many people make their living by fanning the flames. If you go looking for problems, you will undoubtedly find them. Try and have a good time and enjoy your visit without getting overly paranoid.
To the American racism still exists as long as White
Americans do nonething. It's people like him who thinks
Apartheid santions "hurt" Blacks and lets Afrikaans off the
hook for so long. A lot of people like curiuser make their
living telling folks that racial oppression is a figment of
Black's imagination. Because the Afrikaans who dislike
Blacks are still here in South Africa, I need all the info I
need to avoid them. I know what "kaffir" means and it's not
a nice greeting.
Afrikaans = the language
Afrikaaner = member of the group
kaffir = check out the Arabic origin of the word
-
After reading your posts I note that you are quite familiar with the literary, historical, and political people of SA. However, your English language usage is uniformly rough and not what a native English speaker from the USA would would produce. It is hard to beleive that a person familiar with Fugard, Tereblanche, Slovo, Sussman, and Verwored needs to ask for travel and demographic information. However, you did get a number of people to "bite."
YOU CAN'T GROW ON WHAT YOU READ OR SEE ON THE NEWS.IT'S NOT ALL TRUE. DO YOU THINK IT IS SAFE FOR A WHITE
TO GO INTO HARLEM,NY.GROW UP THERE IS RACISM EVERY WHERE
AND NOT JUST B&W.WAR ON NOW!JUST USE YOUR COMMON SENSE AND IF YOU FIND
PEOPLE DON'T LIKE YOU IT IS MOST LIKELY BECAUSE OF YOUR
IGNORANT AMERICAN ATTITUDE.GO EXPERIANCE IT FOR YOUR SELF.
I WILL TELL YOU THERE ARE ALLOT OF BLACKS IN AFRICA THAT DO NOT
CONSIDER AMERICAN BLACKS THEIR BROTHERS.
I am not sure where you get your info.
Sounds like from 10 years a go
Go to SA and get an education in whats wrong with your
picture. I am from Japan and have SEEN AS MUCH RACISM IN
FRANCE, AMERICA, ENGLAND, AUSTRALIA, IRELAND AND TURKEY.
Infact it is not exclusive to SA.
Travel Well and Learn.
yoshida
With the term racists, I assume you are specifically referring to the white South AfricansÆ alleged views on Africans.
You seem to be very well informed on the evil Afrikaner. Your opinions may bear some weight if you wish to share your sources of information with the rest of the readers. Personal experience and exposure may also have some clout.
We would be happy to receive suggestions as to where the Afrikaners might move to.
You can start off your travels in the dangerous Afrikaner heartland of Pretoria. Try out places like Maropa Afrika in Lynnwood Road, where Afrikaners along with Africans dance to, enjoy traditional African music. Examples of tolerance, understanding, co-operation, people trying to build a better South Africa can be seen all over the country. I am not saying that the country is free of racists, but your question here implies that all Afrikaners are racist. We (all South Africans) share the same destiny and we need each other.
I believe that we (South Africans) have peacefully resolved a volatile political / racial situation and avoided a civil war. In fact the previous president (F.W. de Klerk - an Afrikaner) negotiated the road to democracy along with Nelson Mandela - He also abolished the remaining racist legislation. This relatively peaceful process will serve as a lesson and example in future history books. I, under no circumstances condone the injustices of the past, but to blame all evils on a single group of people is rash. I suggest that you read history books on SA with specific attention to the period of 1850-1950.
My suggestion would be to chat to other travellers while here, do the things that you want to, interact and mix with all the South Africans and enjoy the country. Worry more about retaining your wallet in city centres at night time than about racism. Respect of differences, understanding and tolerance comes in quite handy. Travel with an open mind an we will welcome you over here. If you are ever in Pretoria I will be glad to show you around.
Raymond,
I am of mixed heritage and have come to realize that people
will only be "racist" to you if you give them a chance...I
live in Germany and was beaten up quite badly by some
unpleasant elements a couple of years back but still see no
reason to give such an outdated concept a thought..If you
do experience "racism"...you are certainly dealing with
stupid and backward people...Best thing what can do is not
let it get to you and not give them a chance....There are
plenty of normal people around making contact with such
primitive people is real blessing...It should really give
you a chance to laugh!
Well hello and what an interesting topic I appear to have
stumbled into although a tad late to join in the fun.
Saying hello to all you evil afrikaaners (although not
afrikaaner, I'm white and live here, does that mean I
count?)
To whoever started this, Been to our country often? Have ANY
fucking idea what you're talking about? Nope, didn't think
so.
I personally hate the racist bullshit over here, but hey
lets not dwell on me right now - I was just wondering, when
you come to our beauitful (albeit fucked up, but we're
getting there) country
Will you be planning to keep the racist fires still burning
be coming and talking all your bullshit?
So my forefathers were racist tossers. And why? Because they
were TAUGHT to be. Let us teach our children what we now
believe to be right in the name of peace and understanding -
and stop blaming ME for the problems of a society that
fucked up long before I was ever on the planet.
LET people try to make peace.
I think the fact that you are American is your first and
biggest problem. Anti-Americanism being the biggest and
probably most deserved form of racism around and far more
likey to get you mugged by one of my fellow brothers in SA.
Especially if you keep spouting this kind of crap.
I watch TV too. But I also can form my own opinions.
What Raymond is trying to do is avoiding the Afrikaaners who
did not change and still dislike Blacks. He wants to see
people like the Suzmans,Slovos,Hofmeyers,and Fugards of
South Africa not the Bothas and Tereblanches who still hate.
Joaana sounds like a Afrikaan woman rather than a Black
woman unless she is a "coloured" and she does not make
sense. Bonny,the laws of Apartheid ended just six years ago
and you and the Whites who let the Affrikaans rule benifited
from that oppression. When Mandela went to jail the Jim Crow
laws were still in affect in the Southern state I've lived
and two years later after years of stuggle it ended. I hope
that more Blacks would be in the positions that used to be
for Whites only.
You're in more danger, sweet Raymond, from being taken as a
Tourist, and thus a victim, by the Nigerians, Mozambiquans,
Zaireans and other assorted brethren.
Racism rears it's ugly head in all sorts of ways. And
quite frankly the majority of white New South Africans are
too frantically struggling for survival to worry about the
colour of your skin.. It's the colour of your money that'll
count.
You can probably find many of the whites that Raymond would like to meet and thank living in the UK, Canada or Australia.
Many of them are NOW living in the UK, Canada or Australia!
Brace yourself and read Raymond's posts again. Have you known any American or other speaker of English from birth on who writes like that? If he is well informed about the pollitical and literary people of SA why does he need to ask for travel advice? However, he did pull off a slendid troll job and got lots of folks to bite in the form of responses.
what's so non-native about his writing?
I read in the New York Times about a all white settlement in
eastern South Africa called Orango. It's weird since it is
desolate and dry. I hope that this is the only place where
those racists would live. I want to know myself what is so
non-native about Raymond's writing? Black-Americans are
college educated too.
Check out the way Raymond writes. At times he says that he is outside SA and plans to visit, at other times he says that he is in SA. How about "Where in the country are the most racist?" An American student who can navigate this net would probably end that sentence with a noun, or add an "s" and make racist into racists. How about the title of #14: "A little more words." Do you know any native speaker who would say "little" rather than "a few words."? It certainly sounds to me me like Raymond is thinking in a language other than English, and that the transition to English is too rough to be native. However, it was good enough to pull in lots of suckers, so good troll, Ray.
Well, I sure pulled you in not once,but twice. Do us a favor
and make South Africa a better place instead of picking on
one person. Go to a Black neighborhood in your town and
teach them English. That's a better way to be part of the
solution not the problem.
Just wanted to add my two cents worth about Australia. It has its problems (Paulin Hansen being one of them ) and it has its positive side (the younger generation ). Every country has racism and I hope that through education and interaction throughout the world the level of racism will continue to drop.
You can not avoid racist people because they do not congregate in specified areas, but mix with the rest of society. To ask how to avoid racists and the areas in which they congregate is rather a stupid thing to ask. Also by requesting this information you are being narrow minded yourself. You are putting a label on all Afrikaans. I realise that you specified that you wished to avoid the "evil" ones, however you are giving the impression that they are all associated with evil.
Travel is about expanding your horizons and educating yourself through new experiences. What a lot of people tend not to either consider or realise is that they are educating the people whom they meet by bringing their culture with them. If you enter South Africa with an open mind I am sure you will meet many people who are racist and many who are not. If you enter South Africa with predudices of your own you will be tarnishing your countries reputation and will probably end up on the page further up this thorn tree which has been dedicated to Americans. And the joke will be on you!
Just wanted to add my two cents worth about Australia. It has its problems (Paulin Hansen being one of them ) and it has its positive side (the younger generation ). Every country has racism and I hope that through education and interaction throughout the world the level of racism will continue to drop.
You can not avoid racist people because they do not congregate in specified areas, but mix with the rest of society. To ask how to avoid racists and the areas in which they congregate is rather a stupid thing to ask. Also by requesting this information you are being narrow minded yourself. You are putting a label on all Afrikaans. I realise that you specified that you wished to avoid the "evil" ones, however you are giving the impression that they are all associated with evil.
Travel is about expanding your horizons and educating yourself through new experiences. What a lot of people tend not to either consider or realise is that they are educating the people whom they meet by bringing their culture with them. If you enter South Africa with an open mind I am sure you will meet many people who are racist and many who are not. If you enter South Africa with predudices of your own you will be tarnishing your countries reputation and will probably end up on the page further up this thorn tree which has been dedicated to Americans. And the joke will be on you!