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Verin: Black, Brown, or Purple?
Contributed by: Sean Hillyard, Mike Lemons, Judy Ghirardelli, Emma Pease, Erica Sadun, Pam Korda, Keith
Casner, etc
Is Verin Black Ajah?
Did Verin lie in The Great Hunt?
- Verin tells the boys that Moiraine sent her to look after them (TGH: 14, 231, Wolfbrother, 195):
"Moiraine Sedai sent me, Lord Ingtar," Verin announced with a satisfied smile. "She thought you might need
me." Moiraine later says that she did not send Verin. (TGH: 49, 675, What was Meant To Be, 572) "I
did not send Verin." Moiraine frowned. "She did that on her own. It is pretty obvious that Moiraine is not
BA, so that implies that Verin lied, and hence must be BA.
- Defense: Verin could have been tricked by somebody masquerading as Moiraine,
maybe Lanfear, or, perhaps, she managed to find an interpretation of her
words that could be taken as the truth. (Moiraine wanted somebody to
watch over you guys, but she couldn't be here...) Now, maybe Verin is
using some sneaky thought process to get around the Oath:
`"Moiraine Sedai sent me, Lord Ingtar," Verin announced with
a satisfied smile [recalling how satisfying the Beer and Pizza
Moiraine had sent her for had been, and also how satisfying it had
been to come up with a literally true statement which would preclude
any questions from Rand, et al.]' (Edward Measure)
At a signing in Atlanta, RJ said that this discrepancy is not a mis-step.
Why didn't Verin give Egwene Corianin's notes?
- Verin does not give Corianin's notes to Egwene along with the dream
ring. Relevant passages: TDR: 21, 241-2, A World of Dreams, 187.
Maybe she wanted Egwene to get killed, or caught by some Forsaken?
- Defense: Four reasons that Verin wouldn't want to show the manuscript
to Egwene:
- Verin is afraid that Egwene would not continue if she knew how dangerous it is.
- Verin is afraid that Egwene would not continue if she knew who or what must be sacrificed.
- The very nature of prophecy requires that it be vague or kept secret.
- Maybe Verin was afraid that Egwene was a Darkfriend. Also, note that she considered
giving the notes to Egwene, but decided not to. If she were withholding the notes for a nefarious purpose, she
wouldn't have even considered it.
Her suspicious behavior in the Two Rivers
- Misleads Perrin as to why she
and Alanna are there. TSR: 31, 493-4, Assurances, 345-6.
- Tells Perrin
not to trust Alanna, perhaps laying a false trail? TSR: 33, 533, A New
Weave in the Pattern, 373.
- She also knows Luc is the missing Lord Luc,
Tigraine's brother who disappeared in the Blight. She knows he is mentioned
in the Dark Prophecy, yet she does not warn anyone about him? Or tell them
who he is?
1 and 2 are typical Aes Sedai behavior. As for 3....
Perrin's choice
- Only three characters have referred to Perrin's choice of hammer or axe:
Ishamael, Lanfear, and Verin. This puts Verin in very suspicious company.
- Defense: Verin is Brown Ajah, and thus is likely to know all sorts of
obscure things. (Also, note that the above statement is somewhat false:
Egwene also knows about the hammer/axe choice. She dreamed it.)
Barthanes
- Was observed in deep conversation with Barthanes, a known Darkfriend, at
the party in TGH: 33, 470, A Message From the Dark, 397. When Hurin
approached them, Verin waved him away. Perhaps they were discussing
"business matters"?
- Defense: No, they were just talking about the weather/politics/etc., and
Verin didn't want some Shienaran servant butting into her conversation;
it wouldn't look right, and might make Barth. suspicious.
Moiraine and Siuan
- In TFoH: 53, 900, Fading Words, 638, Moiraine mentions to Rand in her
last letter not to trust Alviarin, who is definitely a Darkfriend, and
Verin. Additionally, Siuan mentions that Verin never told her about
giving Egwene a ter'angreal.
- Defense: The former is just an exercise in contrasts. Moiraine is saying:
"Don't trust anybody. You are rightly suspicious of Alviarin, but you
should be equally suspicious of those you think you can trust, like Verin."
As for the latter, why should she tell SS?
Draghkar Attack on Moiraine
- TGH: 22, 331-3, Watchers, 278-9. Executed at least with Aes Sedai help (the warding on them so
they couldn't be sensed). Moiraine seemed to think that pretty much everyone in the Tower had forgotten about
these old hermit Aes Sedai. However, we do know one individual old enough to remember them, who could have
ordered the attack: Verin.
- Defense: This is totally wimpy speculation, and wouldn't even be here, except that somebody might bring it
up again. Liandrin (known BA) could have easily followed Moiraine there.
Is Verin basically good, or basically evil?
Alternative Verin Speculations
- Something in Those Notes Theory: We know Verin had access to
Corianin Nedeal's notes. There is something in those notes that Verin
doesn't want anybody to know about, something so potentially dangerous
that she'd consider destroying the notes and all the knowledge
contained therein. What if, in those notes, Corianin Nedeal describes
how she discovered how to break the Three Oaths in T'A'R? That would
certainly explain why she wouldn't want Eg to have the notes,
especially after her speech at the start of TDR about how important
the Oaths are. This would also explain how she managed to lie about
Moiraine sending her. Plus, who knows what eldrich knowledge is
contained in the notes? Who knows what Verin saw when she tried out
the ter'angreal to go to T'A'R? This could explain all sorts of
Verinisms. (Keith Casner, Pam Korda)
- Verin = Corianin Theory: Verin is Corianin Nedeal herself, and is
thus very, very, old. That is how she got her hands on the ring
ter'angreal. Problem: In TDR: 21, ?, A World of Dreams, 19, Verin
is thinking on Nedeal's notes, and thinks of Nedeal in the third
person. One doesn't usually refer to one's self in the third person.
Another problem (which is also present in related Very Old Verin (VOV)
theories) is that if there were a 400-plus-year-old Aes Sedai lurking around
the Tower, surely somebody would have noticed by now. (Dave Delany,
etc.)
- Second Foundation Ajah Theory: Verin is a member of a secret
society whose members preserve ancient knowledge for humanity's need
at the Last Battle. The existence of the BA shows that it is possible
for a secret group to exist in the Tower: If there is a group
dedicated to evil, why not a group dedicated to good? Problem: There
have always been rumors of the BA. Nothing can be kept secret for
centuries in a place with so many people in it, and so much scheming
as the White Tower. Yet, we've never heard any hint of this secret
group. (Mark Hazen, etc.)
- Very Old Verin: Verin is very, very old, and predates the lying
Oath, and is thus not bound to it. This theory has been proposed as
part of various Second Foundation Ajah theories, Corianin Nedeal
theories, as well as independently. Problem: Verin would have to be
1000+ years old. We have seen no evidence, even in the AoL, that
anybody lives that long, without help from the DO. Plus, wouldn't
anybody notice that Verin had outlived dozens of Amyrlin Seats?
How old is Verin?
Many pet theories hinge upon this question. From LoC: 11, Lessons and
Teachers, 207, we know that Verin has been working on some plan for
about 70 years. This sets a lower bound on Verin's age. The only other
possible clue is LOC: 43, The Crown of Roses, 549. Merana Sedai is
considering the pecking order among the AS in Caemlyn: "Merana had
been Aes Sedai ten years, the day the midwife laid Alanna at her
mother's breast...Verin was the problem...Five years as novice for
each, six as Accepted; that was one thing every Aes Sedai knew about
every other, if she knew nothing else. The difference was that Verin
was older, maybe almost as much older than she, as she was older than
Alanna." We know that the Tower doesn't take women much older than Ny
for Novices, and an average Novice starts at about the age Elayne and
Egwene did (17-18). For the Very Old Verin folks, let's say both Merana
and Verin started late: 24. (Ny was an exception; I think they took
her only because she was so strong.) So, if Alanna is about 35 (a
reasonable guess), Merana is 24 + 11 years training + 10 years as full
AS = 45 years older than Alanna; that is, 80 years old. If Verin is as
much older than Merana as Merana is older than Alanna, then Verin is
80 + 45 = 125 years old. So, if Merana is right about how much older
Verin is than she, Verin cannot be much older than 125 years.
- Basicly good: 75% (168)
- Neither good nor bad -- somewhere in the middle: 18% (40)
- Basicly bad: 2% (4)
- I really have no clue whatsoever
as to what's up with Verin: 35% (78)
- She's never held the Oath Rod: 29% (66)
- She's in the "Secret Ajah": 24% (53)
- She's Corianin Nedeal (the last Dreamer): 8% (19)
- She is the Creator or an agent of the Creator: 6% (14)
- She's a member of the Jenn Aiel: 6% (13)
- Verin is Black Ajah: 3% (6)
- None of the above (i.e., yet another theory): 19% (40)
- Verin was misleading, but in a truthful fashion: 38% (84)
- Verin was lying (violating the Oath): 28% (62)
- A misunderstanding between characters: 16% (35)
- A Jordan mistake: 5% (12)
- One was being impersonated: 3% (7)
- Older than 3000 years: 1% (3)
- 500-3000 years old: 10% (22)
- 140-199 years old: 16% (36)
- 100-149 years old: 31% (69)
- 70 - 99 years old: 12% (27)
- Less than 70 years: 1% (2)