Shareware Overload/ShartewareOverload.cdr/windows/usenet09.zip/WINDOWS.NET

Text File | 1990-10-05 | 77KB | 1,611 lines

Query: MICROSOFT


Doc. #373
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms,comp.os.msdos.programmer
Subject: Microsoft Tech support revisited
Date: 29 Aug 90 12:44:25 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company, Rochester NY
Lines: 49
-text-

Just to achieve some resonable balance I feel I should let the
network know how things have gone since my net message of last
Friday.  That message refers to my very frustrating experiance
trying to talk to someone at Microsoft about the Device
Driver Development Kit and how I might go about creating a driver
that loads other drivers, etc.  Not your standard tech support....

First, thanks to those at Microsoft and the net who sent me the
number of MS Tech Support.  Unfortunately the number is not really
intended for this type of question.

On Monday I got a call from one Robert Hess.  He is a manager with
the PM/Win3 side of marketing and techincal support (I think I got
that straight).  He very neatly and calmly took me through
the Microsoft 'system' of technical support.

I emphasize 'system' because it's a multi-tier system that seems to
have grown to a size beyond it's capability to be managed. That's
my opinion.  The bottom line here is Mr. Hess was able to make
sense out of my question though he has never heard of it being
done before.  He still insists (and after learning of the tech
support 'system', I agree) that MS Online, MS's pay online service,
is still the only way I'll get the support I need.  It's the
only way MS's programmers can be involved.  I'll need that level
of support.  Fortunately we have an account here already, though
I was unable to use it as it "wasn't mine".  Now it is (sort of, I
know the password).

Yesterday I got a call from another lady at Microsoft. She's on a
committee of some sort to look at ways of improving support. I gave
her an 'earfull'.  I guess I always expected support like I'm
*required* to provide.  At Kodak, no customer is to be handed off
more than 3 times.  So if the first two can't answer your question,
you are connected to me, the programmer who wrote the software.
This is generally done as a conference call with my boss and
a marketing/field rep for the customer's region. Yes this interferes
with my work.  But if I have no customers, I won't be needed
much longer.

Final word is there are *REAL* people you can talk to at MS. You
may have to shout to get heard.  Microsoft apparently knows that
*something* has to be done to make improvements.  I have not yet
used my *new/old* account on MS ONline.  The first time I do, I'll
followup here to let others know how it went.
_-
Jeff Gortatowsky-Eastman Kodak Company  .....uunet!atexnet!kodak!sisd!jdg
(716)-726-0084
Eastman Kodak makes film not comments.  Therefore these comments are mine
not theirs.
-END-

Doc. #834
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: Microsoft Support (or lack of)
Date: 11 Sep 90 18:46:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA
Lines: 33
-text-

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Bruno) writes:
|In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Walter Bright) writes:
|>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom West) writes:
|><I've bought 6.0, have found one code generation bug
|><through pure luck and am petrified that I am going to distribute another
|><code generation bug that I haven't found in a commercial product.
|>
|>You need a test suite for your product. If your livlihood depends on it,
|>or lives do, you must test your product thoroughly, as you are responsible
|>for it, not the tool vendors.
|
|Are you saying that Microsoft is exempt from this rule? I would think a
|company that big would have a "test suite", right? But then again, their
|livelihood isn't at stake, since everyone will buy their products, simply
|because they're Microsoft.

On a product as complex as C 6.0, you must expect that _some_ bugs will slip
though the cracks.  You must remember that there are about a dozen megabytes
of executables, libraries, and hypertext files that ship with the C 6.0
development systems.  There is a tremendous amount of new material in the
C 6.0 package, from inline assembly to the Programmer's WorkBench.

C 6.0 is the most rigorously tested language product in Microsoft (and probably microcomputer) history.  Microsoft Languages has a large, experienced testing
department that ran tens of thousands of hours of automated test suites on the
C 6.0 compiler and related utilities.  The high compatibility and relatively
_few_ (for a new compiler) fatal errors is testament to the quality of our
testing department.

       -Jonathan

DISCLAIMER: I don't speak for Microsoft Corporation.  Sometimes I don't even
            speak for myself!
-END-

Doc. #851
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: Adding fonts in WfW? (LONG)
Date: 13 Sep 90 17:22:01 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA
Lines: 239
-text-

Here is a copy of the docment product support uses to
walk users through this.  I would agree with everybody
that this problem is really stupid and confusing.  There
isn't anything we can do about it before True Type.  The
problem is trying to get 14th century technology (fonts)
to work with many different types of 20th century technology
(screens and printers).

This document is posted on Compuserv in the Microsoft section.
There is actually a bunch of really helpful stuff there.

Please let me know (post or mail) if this doesn't do the
trick for any of you.  I do not work for Product Support,
so you would be better off going there first, but I will
do what I can.

..brandyt.
_-----------------------------------------------------------

 Upgrading Symbol Fonts for Windows 3.00 Application Note      [W_WinWord]

 Upgrading from Windows 2.11
 ---------------------------

 This application note describes the procedures to properly install
 Microsoft Word Symbol fonts for those who have been using Word for
 Windows version 1.00 under Windows version 2.11 and have upgraded to
 Windows 3.00.

 If you had the Symbol fonts installed under Windows version 2.11, skip
 to the "Upgrading the *.PFM Files" section. Otherwise, use the
 procedure described in the "Installing Symbol Fonts" section. All
 instructions in this application note assume that you have first
 successfully installed Windows 3.00.

 Note: If you installed the Symbol fonts under Windows 2.11, you will
 have a PCLFONTS subdirectory on the root directory of the drive that
 contained Windows 2.11.

 References to the LaserJet in this document include both the PCL/HP
 LaserJet and the HP LaserJet III printer drivers.

 Installing Symbol Fonts
 -----------------------

 If you have been using Word for Windows under Windows version 2.11 or
 Windows 3.00 and did not install the Symbol fonts previously, install
 the Symbol fonts using the method below.

 Before you perform this procedure, you need to know where your soft
 font files are located on your hard disk. If you installed Windows
 version 2.11 on Drive C, these files are in the subdirectory
 C:\PCLFONTS.

  1. Start Windows and open the Control Panel.

  2. Choose the Printers icon.

  3. Select the PCL/HP LaserJet (or LaserJet III) printer from the
     Installed Printers list box.

  4. Choose Configure.

  5. Choose Setup.

  6. Choose Fonts to go to the Printer Font Installer dialog box.

  7. Choose Add Fonts.

  8. Insert the Word for Windows disk that contains the Symbol fonts
     (the 5.25-inch Conversions Disk or the 3.5-inch Setup Disk) in
     Drive A.

  9. Leave the default drive selection as A:\ and press ENTER.

 10. Select the Symbol fonts from the list box on the right.

 11. Choose Add. The program will suggest copying the soft fonts to
      C:\PCLFONTS. You can use this directory or specify another
      location. Press ENTER.

 12. After the soft fonts are copied to the list box on the left,
     choose Exit.

 13. Choose OK three times to close the dialog boxes and return to the
     Control Panel.

 14. Close the Control Panel.

 15. Go to the "Upgrading the *.PFM Files" section.

 Upgrading the *.PFM Files
 ---------------------------

 The Symbol fonts installed by the Word Setup program are designed for
 Windows version 2.11. To use them with Windows 3.00, you must upgrade
 the *.PFM files. Before performing the following procedure, be sure
 you know the location of the soft font files. If you installed Windows
 version 2.11 on Drive C, these files are in the root directory of
 Drive C in the PCLFONTS subdirectory.

 1. From within Windows, choose the DOS Prompt icon to go to the DOS
    prompt.

 2. Insert the Word for Windows disk containing the Symbol fonts
    (the 5.25-inch Conversions Disk or the 3.5-inch Setup Disk) in Drive
    A.

 3. From the DOS prompt, type the following command and press ENTER

       copy a:\symbol.w3\*.PFM location

    where location is the drive and directory where the soft fonts are
    installed -- for example:

       copy a:\SYMBOL.W3\*.PFM C:\PCLFONTS

    Note: The Word for Windows Conversions Disk and the Setup Disk
    contain two directories: SYMBOL contains the Symbol fonts for
    Windows version 2.11, which you no longer need.

    SYMBOL.W3 contains the Symbol .PFM files for Windows version
    3.00, which are the upgrades you now need.

 4. Type exit and press ENTER to return to the Program Manager.

 Rebuilding the Font Database
 ----------------------------

 If you did not have any soft fonts previously installed for Windows or
 Word for Windows, the Symbol fonts are now ready for use. However, if
 you installed any soft fonts previously (Symbol or otherwise), you
 must now rebuild the printer's font database in order to use the
 Symbol fonts. To rebuild the database, do the following:

 1. Start Word for Windows.

 2. From the File menu, choose New, and then choose the OK button.

 3. From the File menu, choose Printer Setup.

 4. Select the PCL/HP LaserJet (or LaserJet III) printer from the
    Printer list box and choose Setup.

 5. If you did not install the Symbol fonts before receiving this
    application note, use Method 1 below. If you previously installed
    the Symbol fonts under Windows version 2.11, you can use either
    Method 1 or Method 2 below.

 Method 1
 --------

 a. Choose Fonts to go to the Printer Font Installer dialog box. Listed
    in the box on the left are the soft fonts that are currently
    installed for the LaserJet driver, including the newly installed
    Symbol fonts.

 b. Select any one of the Symbol fonts. You may need to use the scroll
    bar to scroll down through the list if you have a number of soft
    fonts installed.

 c. Choose Edit. Choose OK. Be sure to not change any of the settings
    displayed in the Edit dialog box.

 d. Choose Exit to leave the Printer Font Installer dialog box.

 e. Choose OK twice to close the Printer Setup dialog boxes and return
    to Word for Windows.

    Note: After choosing OK the second time you may see a dialog box in
    the upper-left corner of the screen that says, "Building Font
    Database." This box displays a running percentage of completion as
    Word for Windows rebuilds the font database.

 Your Symbol fonts are now properly installed.

 Method 2
 --------

 a. Select any one of the cartridges in the Cartridges list box.

 b. Choose OK twice to close the Printer Setup dialog boxes and return
    to Word for Windows.

    Note: After choosing OK the second time you may see a dialog box in
    the upper-left corner of the screen that says, "Building Font
    Database." This box displays a running percentage of completion
    as Word for Windows rebuilds the font database. Your Symbol fonts
    are now properly installed.

 c. Important: From the File menu, choose Printer Setup and deselect the
    cartridge you selected in Step a. (This step avoids printing problems
    due to selecting a cartridge font that you do not actually have.)
    If you still have problems and the Symbol fonts do not display on the
    screen and/or do not print, we recommend that you remove the Symbol
    soft fonts from your system and start from the beginning with the
    "Installing Symbol Fonts" procedure.

 To Remove the Symbol Fonts

  1. Start Word for Windows.

  2. From the File menu, choose New, and then choose the OK button.

  3. From the File menu, choose Printer Setup.

  4. Select the PCL/HP LaserJet (or LaserJet III) printer from the
     Printer list box.

  5. Choose Setup.

  6. Choose Fonts to go to the Printer Font Installer dialog box. In
     the list box on the left are the fonts currently installed for the
     LaserJet driver.

  7. Select all of the Symbol fonts. (Press the SPACEBAR to select each
     of the Symbol fonts or if you are using a mouse, click each font.)
     You may need to use the scroll bar to scroll through the list if
     you have a number of soft fonts installed.

  8. Choose Delete.

  9. When the message "Remove corresponding font file(s) from disk?"
    appears, choose Yes.

 10. Choose Exit.

 11. Choose OK twice to leave the Printer Setup dialog boxes and return
     to Word for Windows.

 12. Perform the steps in the "Installing Symbol Fonts" and "Upgrading
     *.PFM Files" procedures.

 If you are still having difficulty upgrading the Symbol fonts for use
 with Windows 3.00 after following all of the above instructions, please
 contact Microsoft Product Support [phone] for assistance.

 Copyright 1990 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

-END-

Doc. #376
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: QEMM386/Windows config question
Date: 29 Aug 90 19:27:22 GMT
Organization: University of Hawaii
Lines: 30
-text-

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>
>In fact, much of the software (soon to be a vast majority) that breaks the
>640K barrier will ONLY run under Windows 3.0 (these are known as "Windows
>applications").

But this is the same old song and dance we have been hearing for
years.  The facts are that only a few Windows Applications currently
take advantage of this feature.  To become "a vast majority", Windows
3.0 must be clearly superior, and it is not.  It does not provide
tools for making the most of EXISTING APPLICATIONS.  Countless others
have already learned that you ignore this at your own peril.
Microsoft still seems to be learning the lesson.

>Get a clue, Eric.  You're bitching at Microsoft because Windows 3.0 doesn't
>work well with QEMM/386 without understanding *WHY* Microsoft uses DPMI
>instead of VCPI.

I understand Microsoft uses DPMI because it meets its own agenda.
What I'm bitching at is that I have to pay the price for this agenda
that contains many things of absolutely no importance to me.
Microsoft is welcome to go its own way.  However, I need to use DOS,
and the extensive powers it already provides.  I can't wait for the
still unfulfilled promise of OS/2, and sadly, the currently
unfulfilled promise of Windows 3.0.

Windows is also primarily an operating environment for

                              Eric Pilger
                    NASA Infrared Telescope Facility
-END-

Doc. #478
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: Windows Shareware
Date: 30 Aug 90 11:32:08 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Lines: 20
-text-


    From comments on the net it appears very difficult to get back any money
from registration of shareware.  We need a different system.  I propose that
Microsoft should directly support individual programmers by making cash awards
for the release of useful, bug-free, public domain Windows programs.  Any
programmer would be entitled to submit a program to a jury (which could be from non-Microsoft people) who would look at the functionality of the program and
whether it is a useful addition to the existing set of public domain programs.
The award made would be in proportion to the size and usefulness of the
program.
     Where would the money come from?  From Microsoft's advertising budget for
Windows.  Why would Microsoft do this?  What better advertising for an
operating environment than repeated announcements of yet another well written
public domain program.
     For $100,000 per year, Microsoft could get a lot of public domain programs released for Windows (increasing Windows sales) and programmers could get cash
award ranging from a $1000 for a minor utility to $20,000 to $50,000 for a
blockbuster application.
_-
Bruce Dunn   Vancouver, Canada    [e-mail]
-END-

Doc. #761
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: Mouse on Com3??
Summary: How to install MS-mouse on any non-standard COM port
Date: 11 Sep 90 06:51:17 GMT
Organization: Turing Police, Criminal AI section
Lines: 90
-text-
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 8 Sep 90 22:57:02 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anne Prisk) writes:
   I have the ms mouse that came bundled with my windows 3.0.  I really
   need to run it on Com3, and can't find a way to do it with the docs.

I already posted this once, but it seemed to get lost amongst other
articles... hope this helps !

Patching Windows3 for serial MicroSoft Mouse in other than COM1 or COM2
_----------------------------------------------------------------------

I recently was faced with the problem of needing the use of both COM1 and
COM2 under Windows3, thus being unable to plug my MicroSoft Mouse compatible
serial trackball into either of these ports.  Unfortunately, the driver
supplied with Windows3 supports only these ports.  I asked around on the
net, but no-one seemed to know; thus, I decided to figure out a way to patch
Windows3 to make it possible to use a non-standard address of COM port.
Here are my results, hopefully someone else will find them useful.

First, you need Windows3 installed normally, with the MicroSoft serial Mouse
driver MOUSE.DRV residing in the SYSTEM subdirectory under wherever you
installed Windows3.   Make a backup copy of it and load it into debug or your
favorite debugger/binary patcher.  At the file offset 82Ch you will find the
following table (the offsets shown here differ by 100h, since debug loads all
files with a 256-byte PSP):

_d92c,935
25A9:0920                                      F8 02 0B F7
25A9:0930  F8 03 0C EF 00 00

The structure of this table is as follows: each of the two entrys in it is
four bytes, with the 8250 serial chip port address as the first word (bytes
reversed, naturally) and the interrupt vector number and 8259A interrupt
controller mask following that.  The last zero word is a table terminator
(thus, there are probably plans for expanding this table in the future).
So, this standard table encodes the following ports for mouse usage:
    Port    Addr    Intvect    (IRQ)    Mask
    COM2    02F8h    0Bh    3    F7h=11110111b
    COM1    03F8h    0Ch    4    EFh=11101111b

The IRQ line number can be calculated simply from the interrupt vector number
by substracting 8 (remember, the first hardware interrupt is timer0 on IRQ0,
which produces interrupt 8).  The 8259A interrupt controller mask could
actually also be simply calculated from the IRQ by shifting one left IRQ#
bits and doing a logical not to the result; seems that a programmer at
MicroSoft felt that it's easier to do it this way.

Now, to patch your own values into this table, you need to know the same
things about the COM port which you intend to use as your mouse port: the
8250 chip address and the interrupt it generates.

For your convinience, here are two common methods of arranging COM3 and COM4:
    COM3    03E8h    0Ch    4    EFh=11101111b
    COM4    02E8h    0Bh    3    F7h=11110111b
Also, COM3/COM4 sometimes (I believe on the PS/2, but why would you have a
MicroSoft serial mouse there anyway ?) share IRQ5, which has a interrupt
vector of 0Dh and mask of  DFh=11011111b.  Also IRQ2 is sometimes used
(vector 0Ah, mask FBh=11111011b); on the PC/AT IRQ2 actually generates a
IRQ9 on the bus, but you needn't worry about that since DOS will take care
of generating an interrupt 0Ah and acknowledging the actully generated IRQ
for you automagically.

As an example, let's say you have a weirdo COM card (like the one I have)
which has the 8250 hidden away at 0238h and  which generates IRQ5.  Then
you'd patch the table to read (I decided to sacrafice COM2 capability, you
could also patch over the second, COM1 entry):
_d92c,935
25A9:0920                                      38 02 0D DF
25A9:0930  F8 03 0C EF 00 00

If you patch it incorrectly, one of three things may happen: the mouse cursor
is dead on entry to Windows3 (probably wrong IRQ/mask, use ALT/F4 to get out
of Windows), the mouse can't be seen at all (probably wrong 8250 address, quit
again with ALT/F4) or Windows3 will quit immediately upon entry (you probably
screwed up something else).  Restoring your backup copy of MOUSE.DRV (you did
make it, now didn't you ?) will of course restore functionality.

Also be sure you don't have anything else using the same IRQ before you
reconfigure your COM card to free up COM1 or COM2 -- the standard ISA
architecture can't share IRQ lines.

If you did not understand the above instructions, DON'T TRY IT !  Find someone
who does understand.  I of course can't take any responsibility for what
happens to your computer if you follow these instructions :-)

Happy Hacking!
_-
* * * Otto J. Makela <[e-mail]> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Phone: [phone], BBS: [phone] (CCITT, Bell 2400/1200/300) *
* Mail: Kauppakatu 1 B 18, SF-40100 Jyvaskyla, Finland, EUROPE             *
* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
-END-

Doc. #654
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: windows hater
Keywords: hate love
Date: 7 Sep 90 12:44:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 53
-text-

John Mendenhall writes:

> Support from MicroS*** is even worse! You call their wonderful FREE
> phone number and you get a machine with some programmed responses. If
> you wait 30+ minutes (all the while paying toll fees) you might get a
> real person. All this person is capable of doing is reading the manual
> back to you. In the endless hours we have spent tyring to get
> intelligent help from MS, we have actually given them more
> help/information than they have given us. Mr. Bill is making billions
> from fools who own, but know nothing of computers.
>

I'm sorry, but this just doesn't fit with my personal experiences.  Two
days ago I was running Toolbook (You know, the one that comes FREE with
Windows 3.0?) and I got an error. The error was "CANNOT FIND PAGE 'p41'"
I called the number that was listed in the 'About...' box. The machine
thanked me for calling Asymmetric then switched me to Microsoft's
Technical Support. After hitting the proper buttons, and waiting on hold
for about 15 minutes, was connected to a real person. I explained my
problem. He then asked if I could hold on for a minute. A minute or so
later he said that they had no record of that error, and wanted to know
how critical the problem was. I took that to mean, "Will you live for
a few hours, days or weeks without Toolbook?" I told him that I would
live, but the address book part was totaly unusable until I had a real
solution. He said that he would research the problem, talk to others,
and get back to me. I said, "No problem. Whenever." I hungup the phone
and started to get ready to "Go To The Maul." I figured that I would
not hear from him until tomorrow at the soonest. 30 MINUTES LATER THE
PHONE RINGS! I just about to walk out the door, but I thought that it
might be a friend of mine, so I answered it. To my surprise it's the guy
from MicroSoft. He said that the executable seems to be corrupted and
if I reinstall it, after renameing the original save file, I could then
start the program and merge all of the original data. A REAL AND VERY
WORKABLE SOLUTION!!! Now there might be a better technical support
group out there, but I haven't found it. Don't get me wrong, they are
not perfect, but who is? Yeah, sitting on hold for a while is a pain,
but when you sell a zillion copies of any program, you will be flooded
with calls like "If I'm in Windows, how do I copy a file?" Let's try
to have a compassion for the support people. I know that I know that
when I call Technical Support, I have tried everything that I can think
of, but if you got 50+ calls from users that don't EVER RTFM, you would
start with the basics too. And this is only one example of the REAL
support that I have gotten from Microsoft. And I have been dealing with
MicroSoft since I first used MicroSoft Extended Basic on a DTC MarkIV
computer in 1970.

I could go on and on about support (or lack there of) with other
companies, but AT&T don't pay me to ramble on.

Clancy Malloy
AT&T Bell Labs
att!ihlpf!cem
Naperville, IL
-END-

Doc. #637
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: WHO, WHAT, WHERE REGARDING: WINDOWS 3.0
Date: 8 Sep 90 15:10:47 GMT
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Lines: 40
-text-
Nntp-Posting-Host: zoo-gw.cs.yale.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>    - Is there a decent (commercial) developers package available for
>      Windows 3.0?  If so, where can I obtain it and how much is it?

The Microsoft Software Development Kit is pretty much a must; it is
$500 list (about $350 from mail order shops). Make sure you get
version 3.0! You will also need Microsoft C. It IS possible to use
other C compilers by begging Microsoft for their object file
compatability disk. This does not include Turbo C.

>    - How well does Windows 3.0 perform on, say, a 16 MHz 386?  I'm
>      mainly concerned about graphics performance for things like
>      graphing, bitmaps, etc.

Performance is fine. It will never be as fast as programs that just
grab the video screen and do low-level writes, but for most uses
performance is just fine. On my 386SX screen writes are very fast, not
even sluggish at all. On a 286 stuff is slightly sluggish but very
useable.

>    - What is the maximum amount of memory a Windows 3.0 application
>      can allocate from the system?  My application will typically be
>      memory hungry.

On a 386, about 16 Megabytes, if you have the hard disk space
available. On a 286, you are limited to RAM. On an 8088, about 5K. :-)

>    - I'm looking for a *good* book on programming under Windows 3.0.
>      Is there a bible out yet?  If not, what's the next best thing?

The manuals that come with the SDK are the best source out so far. You
can buy all the manuals for the SDK at any bookstore that carries
Microsoft Press books. Real Soon Now Microsoft Press will also have
the 3.0 version of Petzold's "Programming Windows" which was the
classic Win/286 windows bible; this promises to be a good buy,
especially since Petzold has access to inside info about undocumented
but cool functions...

Joel Spolsky
[e-mail]                                        Talk Hard.
-END-

Doc. #465
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: QEMM386/Windows config question
Date: 30 Aug 90 23:21:54 GMT
Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, F. R. Germany
Lines: 56
-text-

[e-mail] (Eric Pilger) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>>
>>In fact, much of the software (soon to be a vast majority) that breaks the
>>640K barrier will ONLY run under Windows 3.0 (these are known as "Windows
>>applications").

>But this is the same old song and dance we have been hearing for
>years.  The facts are that only a few Windows Applications currently
>take advantage of this feature.  To become "a vast majority", Windows

Excuse me, but this is simply not true. All old (i.e. 2.x) applications
which played by the rules take advantage of this feature, i.e. run
under Windows 3 in protected mode, without any modification. In fact,
my little KLOTZ game (which I distributed in February) was written
without any knowledge about Windows Version 3. Someone ran it through
one of the "mark as win 3 app" utilities, and now you can find it on
ftp servers in the Windows 3 app area. Many other applications share
this behaviour.

>3.0 must be clearly superior, and it is not.  It does not provide
>tools for making the most of EXISTING APPLICATIONS.  Countless others

While I like the support for existing old applications - which is
clearly superior to what OS/2 delivers -, I definitely am most interested
in what Windows 3 does for WINDOWS APPLICATIONS. The ability to
run old and matured Windows applications in protected mode is most
welcome. The highest priority on my private wishlist is a usable
resource management system (like the Macintosh one). But this does
not provide anything for existing applications, either (SIGH).

>have already learned that you ignore this at your own peril.
>Microsoft still seems to be learning the lesson.

>>Get a clue, Eric.  You're bitching at Microsoft because Windows 3.0 doesn't
>>work well with QEMM/386 without understanding *WHY* Microsoft uses DPMI
>>instead of VCPI.

>I understand Microsoft uses DPMI because it meets its own agenda.
>What I'm bitching at is that I have to pay the price for this agenda
>that contains many things of absolutely no importance to me.

I would like to know what things are of absolutely no importance to
you.

>Microsoft is welcome to go its own way.  However, I need to use DOS,
>and the extensive powers it already provides.  I can't wait for the
>still unfulfilled promise of OS/2, and sadly, the currently
>unfulfilled promise of Windows 3.0.

What promise of OS/2? What unfulfilled part of that? What unfulfilled
promise of Windows 3?

Wolfgang Strobl
#include <std.disclaimer.hpp>
-END-

Doc. #336
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: Windows Development on a Budget
Keywords: windows development cheep
Date: 29 Aug 90 13:21:29 GMT
Organization: NCR Corp., Engineering & Manufacturing - Columbia, SC
Lines: 47
-text-

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Clinton Jeffery) writes:
>
>Let's say, hypothetically, that I am a poor grad student who wants
>to port a large X application to MS Windows.  The software tools run
>$100 for windows + $350 for MSC + $350 for Windows SDK = $800.
    Windows is $50 mail order.
    On educational discount MSC is $200, SDK is $250.
    This is $500.  Now you can use Quick C instead of MSC so the total
    would be about $350. Or your best bet would be to get Zortech C++.
    I think all you need is the compiler so that would cost you $150 with
    a total of $450 (Zortech does also have an education discount).

>Who at Microsoft could tell me about an educational discount program?
    I always bought things though my campus computer store (Georgia Tech).
    You might try calling 1-800-323-3577 or 1-800-428-9400. One of these
    numbers is the Windows Hotline and the other one doesn't work :-)

>Will Turbo C cut it for Windows development?
    Nope. Stony Brook Modula 2 will :-)

>Would a 2.11 development system be source-code compatible with Win3.0?
    For most things it would be.  You will need to get mark.com to mark
    your programs as Win3.0 compatable.  I would recommend the Win3.0
    SDK over the Win2.11 SDK.

>Are their any alternatives to the SDK?
    No.  Well, there is Actor.  However, I still think you need the SDK and
    Actor probably isn't going to help make the porting very easy.

>This raises the general question of: how come no one cares that Microsoft
>has excluded the hobbyist and casual programmer from Windows programming?
    A lot of people care about this and have complained about it to
    Microsoft.  However, Windows is not an easy environment to program
    for.  Microsoft doesn't want to provide support for a bunch of
    people who don't now how to program.  They are waiting for others to
    provide this kind of support.  In any event most of the graphic
    libraries which provide Windowing capabilities cost about the same
    as the SDK.  I do which that the libraries for Windows was free and
    that they just charged for docs.

>If anyone knows how much the new Quarterdeck-with-X-Windows product costs
>and how much it costs to develop for it, I'd be interested in hearing.
>Thanks, y'all!
    I have not idea about this.

    -----Dale
        Rogerson-----
-END-

Doc. #512
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: Does everybody hate Windows?
Keywords: Windows, success, hate, Microsoft=devil, Microsoft=god
Date: 2 Sep 90 19:48:39 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA
Lines: 34
-text-

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Eric Sheppard) writes:
>
>One thing I didn't know it could do was to start up an application with a
>data file already loaded.  I later found how to do this in, of all places,
>Computer Shopper's review of Windows 3.  All you have to do, it says, is to
>drag the data file's icon onto the program icon.  Simple, eh?  Pardon me,
>Microsoft, but I would like to have my application make the data file visible
>*automatically*.  To make it visible, you must manually create a new program
>object, then enter the filename in the dialog box, then create a link to the
>filename's extension for the application.  Intuitive, hah!
>
>Eric, tinkerer-at-large

This is not a difficult process if you use the "standard" extensions that
different applications use (.xls, .xlc for excel, .wri for write, etc.)

First go to the File Manager and bring up a directory that contains one
of your data files.  Select the file and Choose File.Associate.  Then
type in the program name associated with that file extension.  This only
has to be done once when you install the application.

Now if you want to put documents in your groups go ahead.  When you add a
data file to a group Windows looks in the association list for the .exe
that goes with it, extracts the icon, etc.  Clicking on the document will
run the program and load the document.

Does this still seem convoluted?  The mac has type and creator fields
IN THE FILE that allow it to avoid the File Manager step but it presents
problems of its own...

Hope this helps.  Sorry if you already knew this.

Ken Sykes
Disclaimer: The above opinions are solely my own.
-END-

Doc. #547
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: Linker for SDK 3.0 ???
Keywords: MS, no-help, lots of money, still don't work
Date: 5 Sep 90 02:32:37 GMT
Organization: University of Hawaii
Lines: 21
-text-

In article <=?}%LH&@rpi.edu> [e-mail] (David McIntyre) writes:
>I have the linker which came with MS C 5.1, as well as MASM.  Neither
>work (they are the same).  The banner for this linker is:
>
>Microsoft Overlay Linker.......
>
>I have been told that the linker which works is:
>
>Microsoft Segmented-Executable Linker....
>
>but I've been unable to locate a copy.  Microsoft is of completely no help,

The first time I remember seeing "Microsoft Segmented-Executable
Linker" was when I started using 6.0.  I don't have any copies of 5.1
left installed, or I'd check.  I do know they are constantly fixing
things they don't tell you about. (eg. non-reentrant printf,
recognizing network drives, ...)  I purchased the Quick-C 2.0 upgrade
on a whim, and was glad I did, just for its improved linker.

                  Eric Pilger
                  NASA Infrared Telescope Facility
-END-

Doc. #444
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms,comp.os.msdos.programmer
Subject: Re: Microsoft Support (or lack of)
Date: 31 Aug 90 18:25:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Lines: 42
-text-

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Meneldur) writes:
>As for bug lists, the Microsoft database, also on Compu$erve and (I think)
>GENIE, does pretty well in that regard.  I understand that it is the same
>database as is used by the technicians whom you call.

  If they publish their bug lists (Om my god, people will know that Microsoft
C 6.0 has bugs in it), why the hell won't they gives these out in any way to
people phoning for technical support.  I had figured that it was marketing
droids who figured it was better to put the screws to the people who had bought the thing, rather than admit publicly that bugs existed.  Now I found out that
even that excuse isn't valid.  What the hell is going on?  Why can't MS
distribute buglists for their compilers?  WHY DOESN'T TECH SUPPORT EVEN TELL
PEOPLE THAT THESE LISTS EXIST ON COMMERCIAL SERVICES???

                    Tom West
                    [e-mail]

  Can anyone tell me how many bugs cause MSC to generate bad code (rather than
break the compiler)?  I've bought 6.0, have found one code generation bug
through pure luck and am petrified that I am going to distribute another
code generation bug that I haven't found in a commercial product.

For people's information:

Bug 1 : If you are optimizing with -Oe (register optimization), do *NOT*
    have any register variables in your program.  The manual says it
    ignores them but it lies.  In fact, when using FP, it will generate
    bad code that eventually overflows the FP stack after many passes,
    possibly well away from the bad code.  Removing the keyword 'register'
    from the program seems to solve the problem.

Bug 2 : The following function will generate fatal error C1001, compiler
    file @(#)emit.c:1.115', line 524 Contact Microsoft Product Support
    Services (who will tell you that yes, it's a bug) when compiling
    with cl -c -Alfu -Od -Gsr file.c

    extern double , it's a bug) when compiling
    with cl -c -Alfu -Od -Gsr file.c

    extern double g (void);
    double f ()
    {
        return (g ());
    }
  The two bugs I have found are:
-END-

Doc. #358
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: Does everybody hate Windows?
Summary: Confessions of a happy Windows user
Keywords: Windows, success, hate, Microsoft=devil, Microsoft=god
Date: 30 Aug 90 02:44:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Lines: 128
-text-

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bruce White) writes:
> From reading this newsgroup, one could conclude that there are so many
> problems associated with installing and running Windows, that everybody hates > it.  Yet the popular press shows Microsoft selling godzillions of copies.
> Since so many people are buying it, some of them must like it.
>
> How about some postings from people who use, and like, Windows.  Tell us what > you use it for, why you like it, whether you use it with non-Windows Apps, what

Okay.  I admit to liking Windows, even, given to hyperbole (as I  am),
of  loving  Windows.  Perhpas  not  a  fashionable  stance,  but ...

I run Windows quite successfully (i.e., with  few  crashes,  at  least
lately,   and  infrequent  unrecoverable  application  errors)  on  an
Olivetti M300 --- a 16Mhz 386sx with 4mbs RAM, an 80 mb HDU, superVGA,
5  1/4"  and  3  1/2" floppies, Ethernet card, and dedicated QMS PS810
Postscript printer.  Flawless configuration,  in  my  opinion  (oh,  I
could  use  more  RAM, but one can ALWAYS use more RAM, right?  And my
hard disk could be bigger,  but  they  can  ALWAYS  be  bigger,  can't
they?).  Nice tight little footprint, pretty gray box, solid blacks in
the monitor, punchy keyboard, enough speed for my purposes, and
reliable so far.

I had tried Win386 --- hated it.  The  Dick  Tracy  colors,  the  flat
screen, the pathetic MS-DOS executive --- good enough for a prototype,
maybe, but not good enough to use.  Ugh.  I tried to use Win386 as  it
was  advertised, bascially the same way I use Windows now, as a multi-
tasking shell, but Win386 couldn't cut it, I gave up, and three months
later,  along  came  my  first  beta  version  of Win 3.0.  There's no
turning back.  The minute I saw Windows 3.0, in BETA release  here  at
Olivetti,  it  was  love  at first sight: the dazzling tasteful colors
(well-suited  to  the  tasteful  palette  of  Olivetti's   by-Italians
offices),  the  clever  little 3D buttons, the convincing multi-tasking
affect, all conspired to seduce me into the Windows world.

Why do I find Windows so irresistible?  Arguably, the most important
feature is the convicning multi-tasking.  I can keep several busy
applications running all day long, which I do, and while I'm pasting a
big clump of text into vi on UNIX, I can be working on a Winword
document and running a Terminal session with another UNIX session,
keeping my place in my todo list and won't be bothered if someone
shows up with a last-minute request for a vendor's phone number.

As you might gather, I use several applications routinely during my day, and
several of the Windows accessories, and a few DOS programs, most
importantly, my FTP Software's PC/TCP software to connect to UNIX for
EMail, news, etc.  My Program  Manager  has  an  Agenda  group,  which
contains a Write icon for my ToDo List, a Cardfile icon for my Rolodex
file (66 cards and counting), a DOS icon for my Ethernet connection to
UNIX,  a calendar icon for my calendar.  My System group contains most
of what used to be in Main, my Tools group most of what used to be  in
Accessories,  an  IS  Tools group contains the icons I culled from the
previous two groups, and my Applications group contains all my
applications  (Winword,  Project,  Powerpoint,  Excel).  Everything is
within easy reach of the mouse, on a  pleasant  background  of  forest
green.

I  can  keep  everything  I need up and running,  switching  between
applications  as demanded by my rather frenetic life here at Olivetti:
in the middle of creating an EMail message, a colleague will  drop  by
with  a  request for a change in a manual, someone elese will chime in
with a request for a vendor phone number, a client will call for  help
with  an  Excel  macro.  I  can keep my EMail alive in the background,
task list over to the  Program  Manager  to  launch  Winword  and  the
technical  manual  file,  open my Cardfile Rolodex, and update my todo
list, almost all at the same time!  As fast as I can, I fulfill the
requests, and send the requestors off with what they need, to return
to my EMail --- quickly.  If I could multi-task  as  well  as  Windows
fakes  it,  I'd  be incredible.  The only thing limiting my ability to
address all those requests is my own human single-tasking limitations.

And though I hated the idea of Winword (for that matter, I hated the
too-cute MacWord, always favoring the leaner, meaner Word for the PC),
I have learned to like it very much, especially for putting together a
quick table for a report on class schedules, or a summary of system
configurations in a client department.  Simple tables, to be sure, and
with Winword, simple to produce.  Fast.  I also use Write as a
pared-down version of Winword, for fast text entry, final formatting
to be completed in Winword, cutting and pasting between applications,
or using Winword's filters.  In fact, a colleague was here today, we
discussed a new lab policy, and I turned to my computer, opened a new
Winword file, and in five minutes, we had publishable text,
attractively formatted.  I relied heavily on the ribbon and the ruler,
the pull-down menus, to produce a document which will have immediate
impact on our users.  And it was fast!

As short of attention span as I am, Windows lets me run circles around
my desktop, attending to portions of many tasks when so inspired,
finishing all up by the end of a day.  It's the way I work.
Especially since everything I do is related:  I do Windows training,
user support, technical writing --- all user service kinds of things.
And idea for a lab policy document could have impact on a lab
schedule, which in turn will have impact on users which must be
notified ... you get the picture.  Windows lets me accomplish all of
the above without the tedious exiting and launching of applications,
except when I want to shut 'em down to concentrate on a single task
for a while.

Hmm. I wonder if this makes sense.  In a way, Windows is bad for a
disciplined mind:  you can jump around on whim, instead of being
forced to attend to a single application.  Doesn't make for good
linear thinking, you know?  And probably that's why I like Windows.

The other advantages of Windows, most importantly memory management,
are pretty transparent for me, and not such a huge issue because I
don't work with large files too often.

Finally, from an aesthetic viewpoint, I am pleased with Microsoft's
achievement.  A few dialog boxes and message boxes could probably be
placed a little better and organized more effectively, but on the
whole, I think Windows is a piece of good work.

It's probably not for everyone --- (just the enlightened ;!> )  If you're
willing to invest some time learning a radically different approach to
PC interfaces, you'll probable at least be intrigued by Windows.  It
has its flaws, most all well documented in this newsgroup and, to
lesser extent, in the press.  But on the whole, I am quite happy with
the accomplishment and look forward to new releases.  For the first
time in my life, I'm even thinking about programming:  it would be
gratifying indeed to build an application with a face as pretty as
Windows can make it.


Okay, enough.  You get the idea.  If I gush a little over Windows,
forgive me.  It's just that it makes life pretty easy around here
these days.

Tony Brich
-END-

Doc. #340
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms
Subject: Re: Does everybody hate Windows?
Keywords: Windows, success, hate, Microsoft=devil, Microsoft=god
Date: 29 Aug 90 21:07:55 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 23
-text-

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve Kearns) writes:
> Is it just because of my Macintosh background, or does everybody
> think the program manager is unintuitive, confusing, and flaky?
> Is the program manager "just another windows program" so that soon
> we might see better "shells"?
>
> -steve

One thing I didn't know it could do was to start up an application with a
data file already loaded.  I later found how to do this in, of all places,
Computer Shopper's review of Windows 3.  All you have to do, it says, is to
drag the data file's icon onto the program icon.  Simple, eh?  Pardon me,
Microsoft, but I would like to have my application make the data file visible
*automatically*.  To make it visible, you must manually create a new program
object, then enter the filename in the dialog box, then create a link to the
filename's extension for the application.  Intuitive, hah!

Eric, tinkerer-at-large
_-
Eric Sheppard      Georgia Tech    |   "Of course the US Constitution isn't
Atlanta, GA                        | perfect; but it's a lot better than what
ARPA: [e-mail]     |             we have now." -Unknown
uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!ce1zzes
-END-

Doc. #317
-title-

Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,ba.windows.x,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.x.motif
Subject: Frequently Asked Questions about X with Answers [long monthly posting] Date: 7 Sep 90 20:33:46 GMT
Expires: Mon, 01 Oct 90 00:00:00 GMT
Organization: the World
Lines: 1779
-text-

[Last changed: 07 Sep 90]

This article contains the answers to some Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
often seen in comp.windows.x. It is posted to help reduce volume in this
newsgroup and to provide hard-to-find information of general interest.

        Please redistribute this article!

This article includes answers to the following questions. Ones marked with
a + indicate questions new to this issue; those with changes of content since
the last issue are marked by *:

0) Where can I obtain X source?
1) Where can I obtain X11R4?
2) Where can I obtain patches to X11R4?
3)* Where can I obtain Motif?
4)* Where can I obtain toolkits implementing Open Look?
5)* Where can I obtain other X sources?
6) What is the xstuff mail-archive?
7)* Where can I find books/articles on X that are good for beginners?
8)* What courses on X are available?
9) Is there a skeleton X program available?
10) What are these common abbreviations?
11) What is XUG?
12) What is EXUG?
13) What is the X Consortium and how do I join?
14) What is xpert?
15)* What other X-related public mailing lists exist?
16) What conferences on X are coming up?
17)* What is the current state of the world in X terminals?
18)* How can I get an X server on a PC?
19)* What terminal emulators other than xterm are available?
20) How can I get an X server on a Macintosh running MacOS?
21) Where can I obtain an X-based editor or word-processor?
22)+ Just what is Open Windows?
23)+ Just what is DECWindows?
24) Where can I obtain an X-based paint/draw program?
25) Where can I obtain an X-based spreadsheet?
26) Where can I get a PostScript previewer for X?
27)* Where can I get a troff previewer for X?
28) How can I design my own font?
29)* What is PEX?
30) How do I convert Mac/TIFF/GIF/Sun/PICT/Face/img/FAX images to X?
31) How do I use another window manager with DEC's session manager?
32) How do I build X with gcc?
33)+ Why doesn't gcc work with X11R4 on my SPARC?
34)+ What are these problems building X with gcc?
35) What are these funny problems compiling X11R3 on the Sun4?
36) What are these problems installing R4 on the Sun running SunOS 4?
37)+ Why doesn't XtAppAddInput work as described?
38) Where can I get a fast X server for a workstation?
39) Where can I find X tools callable from shell scripts?
40)+ How do I make a screendump of the X display?
41) How can I change the titlebar of my xterm window?
42) Why doesn't anything appear when I run this simple program?
43) What is the difference between a Screen and a screen?
44) How do I determine the name of an existing widget?
45) Why do I get a BadDrawable error drawing to XtWindow(widget)?
46) Can XGetWindowAttributes get a window's background pixel/pixmap?
47) Why does the pixmap I copy to the screen show up as garbage?
48) Why doesn't my program get the keystrokes I select for?
49) How can my application iconify itself?
50) How do I check whether a window ID is valid?
51) Can I have two applications draw to the same window?
52) Why can't I set the backgroundPixmap resource in my defaults file?
53) Why does the R3 xterm, et al, fail against the R4 server?
54)* Does Motif 1.0 work with X11R4?
55) Where can I obtain alternate language bindings to X?

If you have suggestions or corrections for any of these answers or any
additional information, please send them directly to [e-mail];
the information will be included in the next revision (or possibly the one
after that; thanks for the many suggestions which haven't been incorporated
yet).  The answers in this iteration are acknowledged to be partial and to
lean more towards products than to programming.

This posting is intended to be distributed at approximately the beginning of
each month [this one is late because of file-server problems].

The information contained herein has been gathered from a variety of sources. In
many cases attribution has been lost; if you would like to claim responsibility for a particular item, please let us know.

Conventions used below: telephone numbers tend to be Bell-system unless
otherwise noted; prices on items are not included.

_-------------------------------------------------
Subject: 0) Where can I obtain X source?

    Intelligent Software Products, Inc., (516-766-2867) ships X11R3
[formats are unknown].

    Integrated Computer Solutions, Inc., (617-547-0510) ships X11R3 on
half-inch and quarter-inch formats.

    The Free Software Foundation (617-876-3296) sells X11R3 on half-inch
tapes and on QIC-24 cartridges.

    Automata Design Associates (215-646-4894) sells X11R3 source on 5.25"
high-density floppies and QIC-24 quarter-inch cartridge tapes.

    European sites can obtain a free distribution from Jamie Watson, who
may be reached at chx400!pan!jw or cernvax!pan!jw. [1/90]

    IXI Limited ([phone]) is selling X11R3 source on quarter-inch
cartridge formats and on 5.25" and 3.5" floppy, with other formats available on request. [IXI, 2/90]

[Note that some distributions are media-only and do not include docs.]
[The MIT Software Center no longer distributes X11R3.]
    (See below for FTP sites.)

_-------------------------------------------------
Subject: 1) Where can I obtain X11R4?

    The MIT Software Center is shipping X11R4 on four 1600bpi half-inch
tapes. Call the X Hotline at [phone] for prerecorded ordering
information and a good product description.

    Integrated Computer Solutions, Inc., ships X11R4 on half-inch,
quarter-inch, and TK50 formats. Call 617-547-0510 for ordering information.

    The Free Software Foundation (617-876-3296) sells X11R4 on half-inch
tapes and on QIC-24 cartridges.

    Yaser Doleh ([e-mail]; P.O. Box 1301, Kent, OH 44240) is
making X11R4 available on HP format tapes, 16 track, and Sun cartridges. [2/90]
    European sites can obtain a free X11R4 distribution from Jamie Watson,
who may be reached at chx400!pan!jw or cernvax!pan!jw. [1/90]

    IXI Limited ([phone]) is selling X11R4 source on quarter-inch
cartridge formats and on 5.25" and 3.5" floppy, with other formats available on request. [IXI, 2/90]

    Virtual Technologies (703-430-9247) provides the entire X11R4
compressed source release on a single QIC-24 quarter-inch cartridge and also on 1.2meg or 1.44 meg floppies upon request. [Conor Cahill ([e-mail])
2/90]

[Note that some distributions are media-only and do not include docs.]

    Canadian sites can send email to [e-mail] to arrange for
the exchange of tapes; the offer is subject to "time availability".
[information from Mark Moraes ([e-mail]), 2/90]

    UK sites can obtain R4 through the UKUUG Software Distribution Service,
from the Department of Computing, Imperial College, London, in several tape
formats.  You may also obtain the source via Janet (and therefore PSS) using
Niftp (Host: uk.ac.ic.doc.src Name: guest Password: your_email_address).
Queries should be directed to Lee McLoughlin, 01-589-5111#5037, or to
[e-mail]. Also offered are copies of comp.sources.x logs.

    X11R4 is ftp-able from expo.lcs.mit.edu; these sites are preferable,
though, and are more direct:

                        Machine                  Internet      FTP
    Location            Name                     Address       Directory
    --------            -------                  --------      -------------
(1) West USA            gatekeeper.dec.com       16.1.0.2      pub/X11/R4
    Central USA         mordred.cs.purdue.edu    128.10.2.2    pub/X11/R4
(2) Central USA         giza.cis.ohio-state.edu  128.146.8.61  pub/X.V11R4
    Southeast USA       uunet.uu.net             192.48.96.2   X/R4
(3) Northeast USA       crl.dec.com              192.58.206.2  pub/X11/R4
(4) UK Janet            src.doc.ic.ac.uk         129.31.81.36  X.V11R4
    UK niftp            uk.ac.ic.doc.src                       <XV11R4>
(5) Australia           munnari.oz.au            128.250.1.21  X.V11/R4

The giza.cis.ohio-state.edu site, in particular, is known to have much of the
contrib stuff that can be found on expo.

The release is available to DEC Easynet sites as CRL::"/pub/X11/R4".

Sites in Australia may contact this address: ftp.Adelaide.EDU.AU [129.127.40.3] and check the directory pub/X/R4. The machine shadows expo and archives
comp.sources.x. (Mark Prior, [e-mail], 5/90)

Note: a much more complete list is distributed regularly by Dan Heller
([e-mail]) as part of the introductory postings to comp.sources.x.

_-------------------------------------------------
Subject: 2) Where can I obtain patches to X11R4?

    The xstuff server now has fourteen patches for X11R4 [7/90]. Send to
[e-mail] the Subject line
        send fixes #
where # are numbers in the range of 1 to 14 (e.g. `send fixes 3 5 7 8 10`).

    Patches are sometimes also distributed through the newsgroup
comp.sources.x, with some lagtime, and are typically archived on sites from
which X11R4 is available.

    Some source re-sellers may be including patches in their source
distributions of X11R4.

_-------------------------------------------------
Subject: 3)* Where can I obtain Motif?

    Various hardware vendors produce developer's toolkits of binaries,
header files, and documentation; check your hardware vendor, particularly if
that vendor is an OSF member. Systems known to be shipping now: HP (sans UIL),  Apollo (sans UIL), SCO, ISC, Mips (RISCwindows=X11R3 + full Motif), IBM.

    In addition, independent binary vendors produce Motif toolkits. ICS
makes several binary kits, notably for Sun, DEC, Apple; Quest (408-988-8880)
sells kits for Suns, as well; IXI ([phone]) offers kits for Sun3 (SunOS 3.5 or later, and Sun4 (SunOS 4.0.1 or later). Unipalm XTech ([phone];
or Aurora Technologies 617-577-1288 in USA) offers a binary kit for Sun 4,
Sun 3, and Sun 386i.
    The kits include varied levels of bug-fixing and support for shared
libraries.

    An OSF/Motif source license must be obtained from OSF before source can
be obtained from the Open Software Foundation or any value-added vendor. Call
the Direct Channels Desk at OSF at 617-621-7300 for ordering information.

    Note: Version 1.1 began shipping in late August, 1990, and is currently
available only in source form.

_-------------------------------------------------
Subject: 4)* Where can I obtain toolkits implementing Open Look?

    Sun's XView has a SunView-style API. A new version is on the X11R4
tape; version 2.0 is also available (as of 8/90) on expo.lcs.mit.edu
for anonymous ftp. Supported binaries of XView include:

    AT&T's Open Look GUI 2.0 Xt-based toolkit is now generally available
[2/90]; contact 1-800-828-UNIX#544 for information. Binaries are produced
for SPARC systems by International Quest Corporation (408-988-8289). A version
of the toolkit is also produced under the name OLIT by Sun.

    Sun is shipping OpenWindows 2.0 for Sparc, Sun-3, and Sun386i machines;
contact your local sales representative for more details.

    Solbourne's extensible C++-based Object Interface Library will be
distributed by AT&T [date of availability appx. 6/90].

_-------------------------------------------------
Subject: 5)* Where can I obtain other X sources?

    User-contributed software is distributed through the newsgroup
comp.sources.x, moderated by Dan Heller ([e-mail]); also check that group
for posting information.

    The machine expo.lcs.mit.edu has a great deal of user-contributed
software in the contrib/ directory; a good deal of it is present in current or  earlier versions on the X11R3 and X11R4 contrib tapes. There is a new directory contrib/R4fixes/ for fixes to R4 contrib software. [Jim Fulton, 2/90]

    The material on giza.cis.ohio-state.edu, which tends to duplicate
the expo archives, is also available via anonymous UUCP from osu-cis, at TB+
and V.32 speeds.  Write to [e-mail] (same as osu-cis!uucp) for
instructions. [the archive is now maintained by Karl Kleinpaste]

    A new west-coast UUCP X11 Archive is administered by Mark Snitily
([e-mail]) and contains the full X11R4 distribution, the XTEST
distribution, an entire archive of comp.sources.x and other goodies.
    The machine zok has a TB+ modem which will connect to 19.2K, 2400,
1200 baud (in that order).  The anonymous UUCP account is UXarch with password  Xgoodies.  The modem's phone number is 408-996-8285.
    A sample Systems (or L.sys) entry might be:
           zok Any ACU 19200 4089968285 in:--in: UXarch word: Xgoodies
    To get a current listing of the files that are available, download
the file "/usrX/ls-lR.Z".
    A full subject index of the comp.sources.x files is available in the
file "/usrX/comp.sources.x/INDEX".
    The machine has just the one modem, so please do not fetch large
amounts of data at one sitting.
[courtesy Mark Snitily, 2/90]


    FTP sites and software available (list as of X11R3; also see above):
brazos.rice.edu            128.42.42.2    pub/X11R3/core.src
charon.mit.edu             18.80.0.13     perl+patches, xdvi
cs.purdue.edu              128.10.2.1     rcs,xspeed
j.cc.purdue.edu            128.210.0.3    comp.sources.{unix,x,amiga}, elm, uupc
nl.cs.cmu.edu              128.2.222.56   Fuzzy Pixmap 0.84 in /usr/mlm/ftp
shambhala.berkeley.edu     128.32.132.54  xrn
terminator.cc.umich.edu    35.1.33.8      xscheme, msdos, atari
cayuga.cs.rochester.edu    192.5.53.209   Xfig,LaTeX styles,Jove
cfdl.larc.nasa.gov         128.155.24.55  gnu, rfc, sun, X, ucb, odu, vm
cheddar.cs.wisc.edu        128.105.2.113  Common Lisp stuff, X11 courier fonts
cs.orst.edu                128.193.32.1   Xlisp
dinorah.wustl.edu          128.252.118.101 X11R3/core.src
expo.lcs.mit.edu           18.30.0.212    a home of X, portable bitmaps
gatekeeper.dec.com         128.45.9.52    X11,etc...
giza.cis.ohio-state.edu    128.146.8.61   miscellaneous similar to expo
hotel.cis.ksu.edu          129.130.10.12  XBBS, msdos, U3G toolkit
icarus.riacs.edu           128.102.64.1   SLIP, chkpt, macdump, Xpostit
interviews.stanford.edu    36.22.0.175    InterViews X toolkit
jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov       128.149.1.101  Tex, Mac, Gnu, Xv11R{2,3}
m9-520-1.mit.edu           18.80.0.45     Xim (X image viewer)
mordred.cs.purdue.edu      128.10.2.2     X11R3
polyslo.calpoly.edu        129.65.17.1    src/spaceout.tar.Z for X11
scam.berkeley.edu          128.32.138.1   X sources, etc.
sun.soe.clarkson.edu       128.153.12.3   X11 fonts, TeX
think.com                  10.4.0.6       X11.2 Interviews 3d
vaxa.isi.edu               128.9.0.33     X, db
wheaties.ai.mit.edu        128.52.32.13   "tX11"
xanth.cs.odu.edu           128.82.8.1     comp.srcs.{x,unix,misc,games,amiga},X [This is from a file posted in early July 1989 and is attributable to Edward
Vielmetti ([e-mail]) and Jon Granrose ([e-mail]).
This list does need updating; help is invited.]


This list is a lightly-edited (e.g. `grep X`) condensation of sites posted by
[e-mail] (Jon Granrose) [9/90].

a.cs.uiuc.edu                      128.174.252.1   TeX, dvi2ps, gif, texx2.7
avahi.inria.fr                     192.5.60.47     xfedor
brazos.rice.edu                    128.42.42.2     pub/X11R3/core.src
cayuga.cs.rochester.edu            192.5.53.209    Xfig, JOVE, NL-KR mail list
cheddar.cs.wisc.edu                128.105.2.143   Common Lisp stuff, X11
crl.dec.com                        192.58.206.2    X11R4
cs.toronto.edu                     128.100.1.65    UofT BIND, X applications
dinorah.wustl.edu                  128.252.118.101 X11R3/core.src, portability
dolphin.mit.edu                    18.86.0.5       X11r3 device driver for S,
emil.csd.uu.se                     130.238.4.2     Old GNU, X R10
expo.lcs.mit.edu                   18.30.0.212     X, portable bitmaps, CLX and  expo.lcs.mit.edu                                  CLUE, gwm
extro.ucc.su.oz.au                 129.78.64.1     images, gnu, icon, kermit,
 extro.ucc.su.oz.au                                Ghostscript patches
faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de  131.188.1.43    NeWS X11 amiga atari faces
fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov                129.43.1.11     xtrek5.4
finsun.csc.fi                      128.214.46.40   X11R4 ftp-list
foobar.colorado.edu                128.138.243.105 BDF fonts, xtex
freja.diku.dk                      129.142.96.1    nn, gnu, x11r4, tex, isode
fresnel.stanford.edu               36.10.0.77      X11R4 for Iris
gatekeeper.dec.com                 16.1.0.2        X11, recipes, cron, map
giza.cis.ohio-state.edu            128.146.8.61    X, PEX
hemuli.tik.vtt.fi                  130.188.52.2    WorldMap X bind.4.8 finger
hpcvaaz.cv.hp.com                  15.255.72.15    MitX11R4 Motif
hpserv1.uit.no                     128.39.60.50    HP stuff, X11, unix, etc
hydra.helsinki.fi                  128.214.4.29    misc, TeX, X
interviews.stanford.edu            36.22.0.175     InterViews X toolkit
iraun1.ira.uka.de                  129.13.10.90    GNU X11 comp.sources.unix
irisa.irisa.fr                     131.254.2.3        comp.sources.x
 j.cc.purdue.edu                   128.210.5.1     comp.sources.x
jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov               128.149.28.2    TeX, mac, GNU, X11R2, X11R3
kappa.rice.edu                     128.42.4.7      X11R3, GNU for Sequent S27
labrea.stanford.edu                36.8.0.47       GNU, X, official TeX sources larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu            132.206.4.3     RFCs, X, local nameserver
lll-crg.llnl.gov                   128.115.1.1     X11R4
ltisun.epfl.ch                     128.178.38.6    xconq
m9-520-1.mit.edu                   18.80.0.45      xim utils
maddog.llnl.gov                    128.115.10.1    AWM X tutorial, PCP
max.sunysb.edu                     129.49.21.100   MGR for unix-pc
mcs213k.cs.umr.edu                 131.151.6.11    xgif, shuttle
me10.lbl.gov                       128.3.128.110   X11 binaries for hp-ux, me10  me10.lbl.gov                                      macros, bind for hp-ux, tex
 me10.lbl.gov                                      for hp-ux, misc hp-ux
nic.funet.fi                       128.214.6.100   GNU, X11, networking, msdos, oddput.efd.lth.se                  130.235.48.4    xps (postscript previewer)
peace.waikato.ac.nz                130.217.64.62   anu-news gnu msdos mac ncsa
 peace.waikato.ac.nz                               x11r4
polyslo.calpoly.edu                129.65.17.1     xtrek, top 2.0, spaceout,
qed.rice.edu                       128.42.4.38     GNU, X11R3, plot2ps sources
research.att.com                   192.20.225.2    TeX, gcc, ghostscript, f2c
scam.berkeley.edu                  128.32.138.1    X sources, etc.
schizo.samsung.com                 134.228.1.2     comp.sources.x
sequent.kent.edu                   131.123.2.50    x11r4 for esix
shambhala.berkeley.edu             128.32.132.54   xrn, xgraph
shemp.cs.ucla.edu                  131.179.128.34  XWIP
sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au         129.127.40.3    X11R4
slug.pws.bull.com                  128.35.10.203   alt.sources,
 slug.pws.bull.com                                 comp.sources.x, gif, X11R4,
 slug.pws.bull.com                                 X11R3, R4contrib, gnu,
ti.com                             128.247.159.141 Explorer compress & en, CLUE,
 ti.com                                            CLX
trout.nosc.mil                     132.249.16.12   X11R3, benchmarks, popd, GNU ucbvax.berkeley.edu                128.32.130.12   nntp, gnews, awm, empire
unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de   129.217.64.60   atari, mac, benchmarks,
 unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de                  utils, x11, sysadm tools
vaxa.isi.edu                       128.9.0.33      clf-act, X, db
winnie.princeton.edu               128.112.128.180 music software (unix & NeXT)  wpi.wpi.edu                                       GNU, ash, DES, misc Unix,
 wpi.wpi.edu                                       TeX_DS3100, TeX_Umax, misc X wuarchive.wustl.edu                128.252.135.4   GNU, X.11R3, GIF, IEN, RFCs,  wuarchive.wustl.edu                               comp.sources.x, msdos,
xanth.cs.odu.edu                   128.82.8.1      comp.sources.x,
 xanth.cs.odu.edu                  128.82.4.1      comp.sources.games, X10R4
 xanth.cs.odu.edu                  08/01/90  4     anonymous/[e-mail]
xview.ucdavis.edu                  128.120.1.150   xview


In addition, UUNET Source Archives (703-876-5050) tracks comp.sources.x and
provides 600MB+ of compressed programs on two 6250 bpi or five 1/4" tapes.

_-------------------------------------------------
Subject: 6) What is the xstuff mail-archive?

    The xstuff server is a mail-response program. That means that you mail
it a request, and it mails back the response.
    Any of the four possible commands must be the first word on a line. The
xstuff server reads your entire message before it does anything, so you can
have several different commands in a single message (unless you ask for help).  The xstuff server treats the "Subject:" header line just like any other line
of the message.
    The archives are organized into a series of directories and
subdirectories.  Each directory has an index, and each subdirectory has an
index. The top-level index gives you an overview of what is in the
subdirectories, and the index for each subdirectory tells you what is in it.

    1) The command "help" or "send help" causes the server to send you a
more detailed version of this help file.
    2) if your message contains a line whose first word is "index", then
the server will send you the top-level index of the contents of the archive. If there are other words on that line that match the name of subdirectories, then  the indexes for those subdirectories are sent instead of the top-level index.
For example, you can say "send index fixes" (or "index fixes"). A message that  requests an index cannot request data.
    3) if your message contains a line whose first word is "send", then the
xstuff server will send you the item(s) named on the rest of the line. To name  an item, you give its directory and its name. For example
                send fixes 1 3 4
    You may issue multiple send requests. The xstuff server contains many
safeguards to ensure that it is not monopolized by people asking for large
amounts of data. The mailer is set up so that it will send no more than a fixed
amount of data each day. If the work queue contains more requests than the
day's quota, then the unsent files will not be processed until the next day.
Whenever the mailer is run to send its day's quota, it sends the requests out
shortest-first.
    4) Some mailers produce mail headers that are unusable for extracting
return addresses.  If you use such a mailer, you won't get any response.  If
you happen to know an explicit path, you can include a line like
        path [e-mail]
or
        path bar!foo!frotz
in the body of your message, and the daemon will use it.

    The xstuff server itself can be reached at [e-mail]. If
your mailer deals in "!" notation, try sending to
{someplace}!mit-eddie!expo.lcs.mit.edu!xstuff.

[based on information from the MIT X Consortium, 8/89, 4/90.]

_-------------------------------------------------
Subject: 7)* Where can I find books/articles on X that are good for beginners?

    Ken Lee of the DEC Western Software Laboratory ([e-mail])
regularly posts to comp.windows.x and ba.windows.x a list of reference books
and articles on X and X programming.  Here is an unordered set of useful
reference books and tutorials, most of which appear on that list [comments are  gathered from a variety of places and are unattributable]:

Jones, Oliver, "Introduction to the X Window System," Prentice Hall, 1989. A
fine introduction to programming with Xlib; fairly good background to the X
protocol; nice discussion of Xlib, the X library. ISBN 0-13-499997-5.

Young, Doug. "The X Window System: Applications and Programming with Xt (Motif  Version)," Prentice Hall, 1989 (ISBN 0-13-497074-8). The excellent tutorial
"X Window Systems Programming and Applications with Xt," (ISBN 0-13-972167-3)
updated for Motif. [The examples from the Motif version are available on expo
in ~ftp/contrib/young.motif.tar.Z]

Scheifler, Robert, James Gettys, and Ron Newman, "X Window System: C Library
and Protocol Reference," Digital Press, 1988. The bible on X.  This is the most complete published description of the X programming interface and X protocol.
It should not be one's first book on X, though. ISBN 1-55558-012-2.  DP order
number EY-6737E-DP.  The second edition of this book, including R4 information, is available as of 8/90; ISBN 1-55558-050-5, DP order EY-E755E-DP.

Nye, Adrian, "Xlib Programming Manual, Volume 1" and "Xlib Reference Manual,
Volume 2," O'Reilly and Associates, 1988. A superset of the MIT X documentation;
the first volume is a tutorial with broad coverage of Xlib, and the second
contains reference pages for Xlib functions and many useful reference
appendices.  ISBN 0-937175-26-9 (volume 1) and ISBN 0-937175-27-7 (volume 2).
[A version updated for X11R4 is available (4/90).]

Nye, Adrian, and Tim O'Reilly, "X Toolkit Programming Manual, Volume 4,"
O'Reilly and Associates, 1989. The folks at O'Reilly give their comprehensive
treatment to programming with the MIT X11R3 Intrinsics; some information on
X11R4 is included.

O'Reilly, Tim, ed.,  "X Toolkit Reference Manual, Volume 5," O'Reilly and
Associates, 1989.  A professional reference manual for the MIT X11R3 Xt; some
information on X11R4 is included.

Rosenthal, David S.H., "Inter-Client Communication Conventions Manual Version
1.0 (MIT Consortium Standard)." The first real ICCCM, available on the R4 tape; a version is also available from the xstuff mail-archive-server.

(Prentice-Hall ordering is 201-767-5937. O'Reilly ordering is 800-338-NUTS.)

In addition, check the X11R4 core distribution in doc/tutorials for some useful papers and tutorials, particularly the file doc/tutorials/answers.txt.  "Late
Night's Top Ten X11 Questions" by Dave Lemke ([e-mail]) and Stuart Marks
([e-mail]) answers other common questions and some of these here in more  detail.

_-------------------------------------------------
Subject: 8)* What courses on X are available?

    Advanced Computing Environments periodically offers at least a two-day
Introduction course. Contact Susie Karlson at 415-941-3399 for information.

    Communica Software Consultants offers three-day hands-on courses in X
designed for the X Window system developer and programmer. Contact Nicholas
Davias, telephone [phone], e-mail [e-mail]. [4/90]

    GHCT offers a one week lecture/lab course for programmmers designed by
Douglas Young based on his book "The X Window System: Programming and Applica-
tions with Xt, OSF/Motif Edition". Information: Brian Stell (415-966-8805 or
ghct![e-mail]).

    Integrated Computer Solutions, Inc., offers several multi-day, hands-on
courses on X, Xt, and the Xaw and Motif widget sets, in particular.
Information is available at 617-547-0510 and [e-mail].

    Intelligent Visual Computing teaches several Xt-based lab courses
on-site. IVC is at 919-481-1353 or at [e-mail].

    IXI Limited ([phone]) offers regular X training courses for
both programmers and non-technical managers.

    Lurnix offers 4-day "type-along courses" on Xt; the course is being
ported from Xaw to Xm. Information is available at 800-433-9337 (in CA: -9338).
    OSF Educational Services (617-621-8778) offers one-day and one-week
Motif courses.

    Unipalm XTech ([phone]) offers X and Xt courses.

    Various vendors are also beginning to offer X training, usually
specific to Xt and a proprietary widget set; HP and DEC are also offering Xlib  courses. Sun offers an XView course.

    Various universities are offering short X courses or overviews: UCLA,
Dartmouth, University of Lowell, University of Canberra (within Australia:
062-522422) ...

    Among the best places to find courses are at the various Unix
conferences -- Uniforum, Usenix, Unix Expo, Xhibition