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TELECOM Digest     Fri, 18 Feb 94 13:54:00 CST    Volume 14 : Issue 91

Inside This Issue:                          Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: Questions About Voice Mail (Dave Ptasnik)
    Re: Questions About Voice Mail (Stan Schwartz)
    Voicemail or Answering Machine Software? (Teng-Kiat Lee)
    Re: Caller ID in Russia (For Curious) (Vassili Leonov)
    Re: How to Share a 64Kbps Leased Line With Ten Users (Jay Hennigan)
    Re: AT&T Says That They Can't Resolve my Calls' Origin (Ed Greenberg)
    Re: Coca-Cola and US Sprint Run Phony Contest (Will Martin)
    Re: Searching For Internet Providers (Colin Owen Rafferty)
    Re: Horrid AT&T 2500 Sets (Glen C. Hoag)
    Re: Phone Number History (Thomas Miles)
    Re: Program For Microwave Radio Links (Tony Harminc)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dave Ptasnik)
Subject: Re: Questions About Voice Mail
Date: 18 Feb 1994 00:57:13 GMT
Organization: University of Washington


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I am surprised you find reps who say it
> cannot be done. Here it is quite common and is known as 'transfer on
> BY/DA' (busy/no answer). For the former it transfers immediatly and
> for the latter, after three unanswered rings the CO pulls the call
> back from the subscriber and diverts it. The caller hears the slightest
> pause in the ringing cadence as the CO quits ringing the one phone and
> sets up the connection to start ringing elsewhere. 'Transfer on busy'
> is quite similar to a hunt group, but apparently not entirely the
> same.  Does anyone know why? IBT gives 'hunting' for free but charges
> a monthly fee for 'transfer on busy' (which can be had without the 'no
> answer' part if desired, or vice-versa).

Hunting and call forward busy appear to be very different animals
within a 5ESS switch.  While I can't discuss the technical aspects, I
can tell you about some practical differences we encounter in our
Centrex/Centron system.  Call Forward Busy is limited to six transfers.
Hunting can have an essentially unlimited batch of number in sequence.
Hunting is not compatible with voice mail, as the originally dialed
number is not passed to the voice mail system.  Thus if we need to
have a ten line hunt group that goes to voice mail with the eleventh
caller, we must use hunting until we come to the last line, then put
on Call Forward Busy from the last line to the voice mail system.  We
too are charged different rates for these two different but similar
features.  If you pick at US West, you can get either one on residential
lines, with CFB being cheaper, but hunting is the one they suggest.

All of the above is nothing more than the personal opinion of -


Dave Ptasnik     [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 11:40:15 EST
From: Stan Schwartz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Questions About Voice Mail


On Sun, 13 Feb 1994, Steve Cogorno wrote:

> Said by: Stan Schwartz

>>  - I have call waiting on the line.  If I don't answer the second
>> line, the call DOES NOT get forwarded to the mail box (it just rings
>> at the caller's end);

>>  - If I "busy-out" the line (*70 or off-hook), since I have call waiting
>> and the software is looking for call-waiting first, any incoming calls
>> will get a busy;

>> In short, the way the NYNEX reps explain this, since I have call waiting
>> on the line, the only time a call is forwarded to the mailbox is if the
>> phone is on hook and I don't answer.  This doesn't sound kosher to me,
>> since I've seen the way other systems work.

> This is the way the Reps WANT to place the order - that doesn't mean you
> have to take it :)

> Ask them to install No Answer Diversion as well as Busy Diversion when the
> set up your order.  They will try to tell you it can't be done, but it can.
> You also may want to get regular Call Forwarding, as you can call forward
> your calls directly to the voice mail so it won't bother you (sort of a Do
> Not Disturb function).

I spoke with NYNEX again today.  The quote from the rep was "Call
Waiting cancels out Call Answering.  The only other service we could
offer is 'Call Forward-No Answer Transfer', where if I *72 my phone
somewhere and THAT line doesn't answer, the mailbox will pick up.  I'm
going to try to pursue this with a "supervisor", but I don't think
they'll be able to help.  For whatever reason, NYNEX has these
features turned off in this area.  Sheesh -- you'd think the'd WANT me
to spend the $6.50 a month for the service.


Stan

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Teng-Kiat Lee)
Subject: Voicemail or Answering Machine Software?
Date: 18 Feb 1994 02:59:50 GMT
Organization: VLSI CAD, NUS
Reply-To: [e-mail]


Hi,

I am interested in knowing the requirements to install a voicemail
system or an answering system at home which is controlled by a PC and
modem. The messages will be stored on harddisk. Are there any public
domain/commercial software available? I have a soundblaster installed,
hopefully that's sufficient and would not need an add-on card.

Thanks in advance for any help!!


Teng-Kiat Lee   [e-mail]   [e-mail]
VLSI CAD & Design Lab                Voice: (65)-772-6319
Dept. of Electrical Engineering             (65)-467-1518
National University of Singapore     Fax:   [phone]

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Vassili Leonov)
Subject: Re: Caller ID in Russia (For Curious)
Date: 18 Feb 1994 05:20:55 GMT
Organization: Institute For Theoretical Physics


Michael De Lyon ([e-mail]) wrote:

> After some reading of 'Caller ID' thread, I decided that some curious
> people might be interested how is it done in Russia.  Russia is

I'm have been involved with computer telecommunications for a few
years in Moscow -- so I want to give some comments on this very very
interesting and 100% correct posting.

> beginning to offer tone-dialing (very limited number of exchanges even
> in Moscow), but as long-distance direct dialing is very common,

As far as I know there are LOT's of exchanges in Moscow that have this
as an option (about 30%) but for some unconceivable reasons it's not
engaged. That's telco - you know... DTMF is NOT a Russian standard,
thus you don't use it.

>  standard (?) caller ID request/responce are used.  It is worth to

I'm not quite sure -- are they the same as in the US? I don't have this
feeling. Seems like the network design is very different in the US.

> mention that in Russia all seven-digit calls are local (flat rate), so

In Moscow. In smaller cities it might be five or six digits.

> dialtone) (area code) number.  Your caller ID is requested after you
> dialed 8.  If it failed after several trials or callback probe

It's requested by the long distance exchange -- the rest of them do not
have this capability. This is again quite different from the US.

> calling is 8 W 10 + ....; this 10 looks more familiar, eh?).

I don't think so -- because -- this 10 acts as kind of areacode --
otherwise you call another areacode. So - 10 - is an international
areacode so to say. There are other special areacodes like 17 and
others -- which are operator assistance for various long distance
regions.

> and rejects you. That's why the Ministry of Communications decided to
> introduce the fee for caller ID boxes.

Though I'm not aware that somebody was paying it... :-) They were also
trying to introduce fax and modem fees - that was REALLY annoying.

> sometimes not.  Last note: as the system was designed for billing, the
> ID only contains seven digits, so it is impossible to derive area code

I'm not sure it's true. If you read some local Moscow newsgoups
(though they are in Russian -- but still some are carried in the US )
 -- you'll find lot of discussions -- and reports that system is able
to get number with the areacode.

Then TELECOM Digest Editor noted in conclusion:

> much for passing it along, and please tell us more about telecom in
> Russia from time to time.   PAT]

Some points of intrest -- in the dark days of Commuinist rule :-) it
was a propriatery phone system that was NOT the one used by the Higher
Government -- but just for local communist party branches. So, this
system was bought like ten years ago from Phillips; it is digital at
the trunk level, and it has 9999 numbers all over the country (i.e.
it's one exchange only). It's name is ISKRA, and it is possible to get
a line for like $500 with like $300 monthly fee.

It covers all the country -- i.e 1/6th of the Earth's surface :-) and
is really good.  One problem -- it has NO interfaces with the regular
network so you have to put your own gate if you want. It's widely used
for computer WANs and its the backbone for the Russian Internet 'relcom'.

So -- keep this in mind -- as soon as you get your data in Russia (for
which I don't know a cost effective solution so far (SPRINT for $32
per hour -- do you want it?) ('relcom' is $50 per 1Meg) -- then it's more
or less plain.


Vassili Leonov

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Jay Hennigan)
Subject: Re: How to Share a 64Kbps Leased Line With Ten Users (9600 Baud)
Date: 18 Feb 1994 08:40:20 -0800
Organization: Disgruntled postal workers against gun control


In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Tohru Asami) writes:

> I've heard that Pacific Communication Science Incorporated (PCSI) is
> selling a data compression machine, called CS-8000, which can compress
> a 64Kbps data link into a 9600bps data link.

> I wonder if the following communication is possible for cost saving.

>                           +---+       +---+
>                           | M |       | M |
>    64Kbps         9600bps | U |       | U |9600bps        64Kbps
>User------[CS-8000]--------+ L |       | L +------[CS-8000]------User
>User------[CS-8000]--------+ T |       | T +------[CS-8000]------User
>User------[CS-8000]--------+ I | 64Kbps| I +------[CS-8000]------User
>User------[CS-8000]--------+ P +-------+ P +------[CS-8000]------User
>User------[CS-8000]--------+ L | leased| L +------[CS-8000]------User
>User------[CS-8000]--------+ E | line  | E +------[CS-8000]------User
>User------[CS-8000]--------+ X |       | X +
>                           | O |       | O |
>                           | R |       | R |
>                           +---+       +---+

> My questions are as follows:
>    1. Are there any multiplexors from 9600bps to 64Kbps?

Not sure what you mean by this question.  There are data multiplexers
that will combine several 9600 channels into a single aggregate link
which can be 64 KBPS (if you can get a clear 64 KBPS connection from
your phone company).  Statistical data multiplexers will combine
several 9600 channels into an aggregate 9600 link.  These work well as
long as the individual channels aren't trying to pass full-time
full-rate data.  Eight terminals (even with fast typists) over a 9600
aggregate link is acceptable.

>    2. Are they compatible with CS-8000?

I don't know.  Most stat muxes use a proprietary algorithm and must be
the same on both ends.

>    3. How much are they?

It depends.

>    4. What companies are selling them?

Many vendors.  Multi-Tech, Newbridge (voice/data), Micom (voice/data),
and others.

>    5. What kind of problems do we enconter in the above configurations?

If you are using this for data, things work pretty well except for
delayed screen echo of typed characters when things get busy.  There
are protocol workarounds to fix this.  For voice, 9600 gets a bit
gravelly.  Echo can be present and annoying.  For fax, forget it
unless you get *very* expensive fax adapters for the nultiplexers.
Don't even think of putting a modem on a voice circuit derived off of
one of these.

>    6. Did anyone try the same communication method?

Yes.  See the vendor list above.  Micom and Newbridge are two that
come to mind for combined voice/data/fax.  The Newbridge 3612 will do
this.

> In this case, a User uses a telephone or FAX, and he may not intensively
> use his 64Kbps line.

Again, the fax will cost big bucks.


Jay Hennigan   [e-mail]   Santa Barbara CA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 03:31:30 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Ed Greenberg)
Subject: Re: AT&T Says That They Can't Resolve my Calls' Origin
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)


Hi Eric,

What's happening is that you probably dial 9+0+<parental_units_number>
right?  Then you get a bong and enter a calling card number.

You probably have a direct inward dialing number leading to your desk,
but your that is not a "real" phone number.  Just an ID that is passed
by the telco to your office switch to route the call.  When you dial 9
and a number, your switch selects an outbound trunk and puts your call
on it.  That's the number that you're seeing on your bill.  It's
probably from an exchange local to your office, but not necessarily.

When you call that number, the switch folks have it programmed to go
to a recording.  They don't want to have you getting the operator on
that trunk group, since it's for outgoing only and would block the
line for outgoing calls.  They'd rather you call the operator on the
INCOMING trunk group.

Of course, since you recognize the destination and are prepared to pay
for the call, the origin isn't really of much importance to you, so
long as the call isn't "splashed" to a city from which it is more
expensive to call.


Ed Greenberg           [e-mail]        Ham Radio: KM6CG

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 8:29:50 CST
From: Will Martin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Coca-Cola and US Sprint Run Phony Contest


Regarding this contest -- here's something I posted to misc.consumers
about it on 8 Nov 93:
            ^^^^^^^^
Coca-Cola has a game called "Monsters of the Gridiron" for which one
called 800-474-3476 with the four-digit number under the cap of a
Coca-Cola product, and you were then told what you won. According to
the label, this game runs until 1 Dec 93, but when you call the 800
number now, it answers but tells you the game is over and you have to
write for a list of winning numbers. To me, this is insane -- the
company is STILL paying for those 800-number calls but then not
letting the automated reply system work. I would think their savings
in turning off that system would be minimal, compared with the cost of
answering the 800 number in the first place.

                              *******

Note that the ability of the 800 number to tell callers what they
wanted to know was deactivated a month or so PRIOR to the publicized
end of the contest! Yes, I WOULD call this contest "phony"! Telling
people they have to write for a list of winning numbers is a sure way
to discourage entrants and a way for the contest-holder to avoid
paying out winnings.

Secondly, contests like this, which require the opening of a product
to look at a concealed number, should be forced to run as long as the
product's shelf life. It's not all that unusual to stock up on some
grocery or food product and be using it months or even years after it
was purchased. For soda, I'd say a minimum six-month duration would be
OK, since it has a shorter shelf life than something like canned
goods.

(Note about "forced", above -- no one "forces" these companies to hold
these contests, so it is NOT unreasonable for them to be forced or
coerced into adhering to certain consumer-benefitting practices if
they choose to hold the contest in the first place.)


Will

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Colin Owen Rafferty)
Subject: Re: Searching For Internet Providers
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 18:28:19 GMT


In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Charles John Statton, Jr) writes:

> I am looking for Internet Service Providers in the Erie, PA area.  So
> far I have only found PREPNet. Are there any others for this area?

Check the Public Dialup Internet Access List for a list of providers.
You can get the latest copy of the list via email by sending the one
line message:

        Send PDIAL

to <[e-mail]>.

Note that I am not affiliated in any way with the deli server, but I
am a loyal customer.


Colin Rafferty, Lehman Brothers <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 00:04:32 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Glen C. Hoag)
Subject: Re: Horrid AT&T 2500 Sets


> I concur with Randy Gellens that today's ersatz 2500 sets are cheap
> and flimsy.  But I noticed something interesting at a local hardware
> store.  A display case filled with AT&T telephone sets (the usual
> cheap kind with chirpers instead of bells) was accompanied by a few
> new AT&T "Signature" telephone sets.  One was shaped sort of like a
> 2500, though a bit squashed; another was in the Trim-Line(tm, no
> doubt) format.  Upon examination, I saw a mechanical bell ringer
> adjustment on the bottom of the 2500-style.  Even more unusual, the
> set must have weighted ten pounds!  It didn't even feel like a flimsy
> set with a lead weight, just heavy.

> And it was clearly marked AT&T Property for Lease Only, or some such
> words.  The store said it was not for sale, either.  It was a series
> that AT&T made only for rental customers.  Since it's a rental,
> they're responsible if it breaks, so it's made better.

> I wouldn't mind buying one of these sets, but I suspect most of us
> don't really want to rent.  I'm surprised that AT&T isn't making these
> available to rental PBX customers; maybe they can be had if you ask,
> but maybe they're only sold to residential customers.

Just over a year ago, I rented a "refurbished" 2500 set from a local
AT&T Phone Center store (before they closed it).  I walked in and
asked the clerk for a "2500" set; he, being an old Bell System type,
knew what I was talking about.  I explained that I didn't want the new
cheaper variety.  The sales droids that I had encountered on other
visits tried to steer me to the new design phones.  The "real" phones
were in a display marked "Traditional" and only listed the lease
prices, but they would have been happy to sell them (at a higher price
than the new phones).

After a month or two, I called the number on my rental bill and told
them that I wanted to purchase my lease unit.  They were happy to
oblige me and sent me a closing bill with the purchase price (around
$50).

The unit is a standard 2500 set with full-travel DTMF pad.

FYI, box reads "Traditional Table Telephone" and the label on the box
reads:

AT&T Refurbished <date>
SET TEL-R2500DMG-3
<bar code>
104 033 964
Traditional TT Desk Black
SKU: 40501
Qty: 1 Wt: 5 lbs


Glen C. Hoag          email: [e-mail]
Programmer            phone: [phone]
Lamir Software Corp.  Huntsville, AL, USA

------------------------------

From: Thomas Miles <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Phone Number History
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 02:36:00 gmt


In TELECOM Digest 3/2/94, [e-mail] quotes (and editor
replies):

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Not that I know of. Before name/number
> combinations (which existed almost from the beginning in big cities)
> there were just numbers. In small towns, one to four digit numbers were
> common and that was it. If a town had only one exchange, or switchboard,
> its name was usually the name of the town where it was located, and
> reciting it as part of the number was redundant. When things expanded
> to include names, some towns got to keep their (town) name as the phone
> exchange name; i.e. Atlantic City, NJ still has the exchange name
> ATlantic City, although 285-xxxx is the way it is expressed now. Where
> conflicts occurred, they made up other names for conflicting exchanges.

This situation still exists in the UK, although it is changing gradually.

Before inter-office dialing arrived (so-called Subscriber Trunk
Dialing STD) in the '60s (I think) exchanges were known by name
(usually town, sometimes obscure eg Pangle).  Numbers could be three,
four or five digits except for the big cities (London, Manchester etc)
which were All Figure Numbers, seven digits.

With the arrival of STD, everyone still showed their number as
Exchange Name XXXX,, and the Post Office (as it was then) issued a
booklet of access codes.  Local dialing was sorted by a great
profusion of varying prefixes (mostly 8's and 9's, sometimes 8x, 8xx,
9x, 9xx etc).  Dialing the STD code for local calls worked, but I
understand you got charged a toll rate.  STD codes also varied in
length -- usually the longer your phone number, the shorter the STD
(but some numbers could be dialed in as few as seven or eight digits
from anywhere in the UK).

This is sometimes still the case, and the phone books still list your
phone number as Exchange name XXXXXX (and you have to refer to another
list to dial it!!).

BT is gradually changing all this.  Apart from the All Figure Numbers,
things are moving to everyone having a four digit STD 0XXX and a six
digit number.  Also, more All figure areas have been created (eg many
exchanges around Newcastle were made all figure a few years ago.)

Beginning next year, the STD goes up to five digits, and sometime after
that I expect that exchange names will be history.

Part of the pain involved in all this is that the STDs were assigned
in alphabetic sequence based on the major routing exchanges, not
geographically. For example the STDs for Winchester and Watford are
close, but the towns aren't.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: That is the way area codes are here.
Unlike the Postal Service ZIP (zone improvement plan) codes which
begin with low digits (zero and one) on the east coast and become
larger (eight and nine as the first digit) when you reach the west
coast, telephone area codes here are a hodge-podge; they are whatever
they are wherever they are. 212 is in New York and 213 is in California
some four thousand miles away. 316 is in Kansas while 315 is also in
New York, with 312 in Chicago, 313 in Detroit and 314 in St. Louis. None
of the above are anywhere close to the others.  PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 13:53:01 EST
From: Tony Harminc <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Program For Microwave Radio Links


 From: [e-mail] (Dino Moriello):

> I'm a microwave radio tech.  My company has over 300 microwave sites
> and I have the following question:

> We installed a hop last summer that runs east-west and we noticed that
> at a certain time during the summer the sun got right in line with one
> of the dishes causing the noise level on the receiving antenna to go
> sky high and cause a cut off of the link during the entire time that
> the sun is in line with the two dishes at 7GHZ.

> Is there a way to predict when these outages will occur, either using
> a software program or by hand?

It's certainly predictable, and shouldn't be hopelessly hard to do
from first principles (but I'm not volunteering).  A few years ago
when I was talking to Telesat about some VSAT links, they offered to
provide the sun transit dates and times for each of our proposed
sites.  Of course satellite dishes are typically pointing southwest in
your part of the world, and characteristics will be different from
terrestrial microwave in other ways, but I would think the same
formula would apply.  You could try asking Telesat (unless -- or even
if -- you are a competitor of theirs).


Tony Harminc

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V14 #91
*****************************