Phoenix Rising BBS/phoenixrising.zip/phoenixrising/pac_bell/brief6.txt

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Briefing Package No. 6




January 3, 1994



To CalREN Distribution List:

1994 promises to be an exciting year for CalREN!  The
deadline for responses to the first CalREN RFP,
Asynchronous Transfer Mode for the San Francisco Bay
Area, has passed and the approval process is underway.
Deadlines are quickly approaching for the remaining
RFPs.  This is an important time to double-check dates
to be sure that you are on track.  All of the RFP
timelines are contained in Section III of the Briefing
Package.

Important highlights of this Briefing Package are:

Ñ    Briefing Session question and answer transcripts
from all December 7th and 8th sessions (see Appendix B).

Ñ    "Networking"/Collaboration List for those who are
still trying to network with potential project partners
(see Appendix C).

Ñ    Pricing information for the CalREN-sponsored data
communication technologies (see Appendix D).

The CalREN staff can be reached on 1-800-CalREN7.
Please contact us if we can be of assistance to you.





Richard A. Hronicek
Program Director, CalREN

CC:  C. D. Whitehead

Attachment





California Research and Education Network






Briefing Package No. 6


January 3, 1994










CalREN, a Pacific Bell Trust

Table of Contents



I.          CalREN Briefing Packages/Distribution List            1

II.      Briefing Session Synopses                            2

III.      RFP Status and Schedules                            2

IIIa.      Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) - San Francisco
            Bay Area                                        2

IIIb.      Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) - Greater Los Angeles    3

IIIc.      Education                                        3

IIId.      Health Care                                    4

IIIe.      Community, Government, and Commercial Services        4

IV.      CalREN Contact Information                        4



Appendix A - CalREN Briefing Session Overheads

Appendix B - CalREN Briefing Session Question & Answer
Transcripts

Appendix C - "Networking"/Collaboration List

Appendix D - RFP Section III.B Addendum (Applies to the
Education,
            Health Care, and Community, Government,
and
            Commercial Services RFPs only)

Appendix E - Pacific Bell Applications Bulletin Board
Access &
           Options



I.    CalREN BRIEFING PACKAGES/DISTRIBUTION LIST

As previously stated in Briefing Package No. 5, we have
been inundated with requests to be added to our mailing
list and for previous Briefing Packages.  With that in
mind, we would like to once again clarify what our
current procedure is.  When we receive a request for our
Request for Proposal (RFP) packages, we send Briefing
Package No. 4 which includes our Education, Health Care,
and Community, Government, and Commercial Services RFP
packages (unless you specifically request one or both
Asynchronous Transfer Mode RFPs).  Further, at that
point you are also added to our CalREN Distribution List
so that you will receive all future CalREN mailings.  It
has not been our procedure to send all previous Briefing
Packages.  Previous Briefing Packages have not been sent
for two reasons: 1) the content that is applicable to
those interested in responding to the community-of-
interest based RFPs is essentially duplicated within the
RFP packages, and 2) paper, reproduction, and postage
costs are exorbitant.  The following content synopsis
should help you decide whether you require one or more
previous Briefing Packages (alternate information
sources are shown in brackets):

Briefing Package No. 1 - High level overview of the
CalREN program.  [All pertinent program overview
information is contained in each CalREN RFP and was
presented at CalREN Briefing Sessions.]

Briefing Package No. 2 - Overview of the CalREN RFP
process and San Francisco Bay Area Asynchronous Transfer
Mode RFP.  [All pertinent RFP process information is
contained in each CalREN RFP and was presented at CalREN
Briefing Sessions.]

Briefing Package No. 3 - Greater Los Angeles Area
Asynchronous Transfer Mode RFP and a synopsis and
questions and answer record from the San Francisco Bay
Area Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) RFP Briefing
Session held
September 23, 1993. .

Briefing Package No. 4 - Education, Health Care, and
Community, Government, and Commercial Services RFPs.

Briefing Package No. 5  - Synopsis and question and
answer record from the  Greater Los Angeles Area
Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) RFP Briefing Session
held November 18, 1993.

The CalREN staff is very small, and we want to be sure
that we spend our time in the ways that best serve you.
We appreciate you considering the necessity of
documentation requests.

.c.II.    BRIEFING SESSION SYNOPSES

Two Briefing Sessions were held on December 7, 1993 at
the San Francisco Airport Hilton and on December 8, 1993
at the Los Angeles Hilton and Towers.  The morning
sessions were for those interested in responding to the
Health Care and/or Community, Government & Commericial
Services RFP.  The afternoon sessions were for those
interested in responding to the Education RFP.

The sessions consisted of an overview of the CalREN
program, the RFP process, and overviews of Frame Relay,
Switched Multimegabit Data Service (SMDS), Integrated
Services Digital Network (ISDN), and Switched Digital
Services 56.  All overheads used in the meetings are
provided in Appendix A.

The sessions concluded with a question and answer
segment.  All questions and answers generated in all
sessions are provided in Appendix B.

Many session attendees expressed an interest in doing
some informal "networking" with others interested in
submitting proposals.  In response to that, we changed
our sign-in procedure so that those who were interested
in that could have their names, company names, and phone
numbers published and distributed.  Those lists are
provided in Appendix C.  We regret that the RFP
timelines and our own staffing do not allow the time and
resources that would be necessary to expand "networking"
opportunities and processes.  We hope that this will
fulfill most needs.

We also received a number of questions about the pricing
of the data communication technologies that are part of
CalREN.  To assist you in responding to Section III.B of
the Education, Health Care, and Community, Government
and Commercial Service RFPs, we have prepared an
official addendum to those RFPs which includes narrative
explaining our expections and pricing guidelines for the
data communication technologies sponsored by CalREN.
This information is contained in Appendix D of this
Briefing Package.

III.    RFP STATUS & SCHEDULES

The RFP schedules are subject to change.  Changes will
be communicated through subsequent CalREN briefings.

IIIa.    Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) - San
Francisco Bay Area

Status:

The acceptance window for responses began on November 1,
1993 and ended on December 15, 1993.   The project
approval process began on November 2, 1993, and
concludes on February 15, 1994.
IIIa.    Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) - San
Francisco Bay Area    (Continued)

Schedule:

Issue     Briefing        Responses        Approve
RFP        Session        Due            Projects
________________________________________________________

9/3/93    9/23/93        11/1/93 to    11/2/93 to
                    12/15/93        2/15/94

IIIb.    Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) - Greater Los
        Angeles Area

Status:

A briefing session for the ATM - Greater Los Angeles
Area was held on November 18, 1993.  The Briefing
Session synopsis and question and answer record were
provided in Briefing Package No. 5.

Schedule:

Issue     Briefing        Responses        Approve
RFP        Session        Due            Projects
________________________________________________________

10/15/93    11/18/93        2/15/94        3/31/94

IIIc.    Education

    Status:

Briefing Sessions for the Education RFP were held on
December 7th and December 8th.  The synopses and
question and answer records from those sessions are
provided in this Briefing Package.

Schedule:

Issue    Briefing         Responses        Approve
RFP        Sessions        Due            Projects
________________________________________________________

11/1/93    12/7/93 (North)    3/14/94        4/15/94
        12/8/93 (South)

.c.IIId.    Health Care

    Status:

Briefing Sessions for the Health Care RFP were held on
December 7th and December 8th.  The synopses and
question and answer records from those sessions are
provided in this Briefing Package.

Schedule:

Issue    Briefing             Responses        Approve
RFP        Sessions            Due            Projects
________________________________________________________

11/1/93    12/7/93 (North)    2/28/94        3/25/94
        12/8/93 (South)

IIIe.    Community, Government, and Commercial Services

Status:

Briefing Sessions for the Community, Government, and
Commercial Services RFP were held on December 7th and
December 8th.  The synopsis and question and answer
records from those sessions are provided in this
Briefing Package.

Schedule:

Issue    Briefing             Responses        Approve
RFP        Sessions            Due            Projects
________________________________________________________

11/1/93    12/7/93 (North)    3/28/94        4/29/94
        12/8/93 (South)


IV.    CalREN CONTACT INFORMATION

As previously announced in Briefing Package No. 5,
CalREN is pleased to offer an additional option for
obtaining CalREN and other Pacific Bell program, general
product, and  product application information:  Pacific
Bell Applications Bulletin Board System.  Appendix E
contains detailed information about how to access the
bulletin board, and the options it contains.  Please
note that this Bulletin Board is a one-way
communications vehicle to download text files only.
CalREN has received requests for an electronic
collaboration vehicle.  Planning is still underway to
fulfill that request.

IV.    CalREN CONTACT INFORMATION (Continued)

CalREN Information Line:  1-800-CalREN7    (1-800-225-7367)

FAX:  [phone]

Mail:  The CalREN Program
           c/o Pacific Bell
           2600 Camino Ramon
           Rm. 3S306
           San Ramon, CA  94583

E-Mail Internet Address:  [e-mail]

To be placed on the CalREN Internet E-Mail distribution
list, send the following message to
"[e-mail]":

    subscribe calren <your name>

The "subscribe" message must be the first part of the
text of the E-Mail message.  The subject field is
ignored.  Your Internet return address is used as the
distribution list address.

Once subscribed, you will then receive all CalREN
broadcast notices.

To remove your name, send a similar message using the
command

"unsubscribe".

To obtain archived CalREN documents, send the following
message:

get calren <archive-name>

The following CalREN-related documents are currently
archived:

atm-service-description     [ATM Product Description]
briefing-1                [Briefing Package #1, July 23, 1993]
briefing-2                [Briefing Package #2, September 7, 1993]
briefing-3                [Briefing Package #3, October 6, 1993]
briefing-4                [Briefing Package #4, November 1, 1993]
briefing-5                [Briefing Package #5, December 13, 1993]
briefing-6                [Briefing Package #6, January 3, 1994]
sf-atm-rfp                [San Francisco Bay Area ATM Access]
la-atm-rfp                [Greater Los Angeles Area ATM Service]
education-rfp           [Education RFP]
healthcare-rfp           [Health Care RFP]
cgc-services-rfp           [Community, Government, and Commercial RFP]


Appendix B
Section 1

San Francisco Health Care and Community, Government &
Commercial Services RFP Briefing Session

Question & Answer Transcript


              (Note:  All participants' names are
                    spelled phonetically.)


                         ---o0o---


              PARTICIPANT:  This is actually not a question,
      more a recommendation, whether you all would be
      willing to distribute lists of the people here so
      those of us who are from community type health
      organizations can get together with some of the
      technical firms that are interested in this
      (inaudible).

              PANELIST:  Just to comment on that, that's a
      similar situation as with the vendor list.  We
      encourage networking here at the briefing sessions.
      There are just as many people who don't want their
      names on the list as want, so we've had to basically
      back off that and just encourage networking here and
      trading of business cards, et cetera, because to
      publish the list we have a lot of people who say "I
      don't want to be on the list," and that's been a
      struggle for us.

              PARTICIPANT:  Well, that was my question, if
      CalREN can offer any type of support or a database to
      help bring groups together, because I'm a small
      business, and it is going to be difficult to get in
      touch with a lot of people.  I think a lot of time
      will pass before the groups can get together, and the
      focus should not be on getting the groups together but
      on working on the proposal.

              PARTICIPANT:  Richard Wilson Software.
              I'd like to have a little comment to possibly
      address the difference, or maybe even a little bit of
      the overview, of CALnet and how that may interface
      with projects you may have here.

              PANELIST:  The project is CALnet?

              PARTICIPANT:  Yeah.

              PANELIST:  I'm not familiar with CALnet.

              PARTICIPANT:  CALnet, as I understand it, is a
      California state government network for long distance
      calls.  Is that what you are referring to, sir?

              PARTICIPANT:  Yeah.

              PANELIST:  We are not affiliated with it to my
      knowledge, so, you know, it would not tie in.  We are
      not doing anything directly with CALnet.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hi, my name is Dave Brussee.
      I'm an independent project management consultant.
              I have questions relative to the consortiums.
      I view that as someone as in the military when he was
      a prime contractor bidding on programs, and I need
      more explanation now on how the consortiums are
      formed, who manages them.

              PANELIST:  Basically what we are looking to is
      out to the public to form those consortiums.  In other
      words, an idea will spring from some company, and it
      will be based on developing an application where you
      don't have all of the piece parts.  And at that point
      you start exploring other companies that you would
      need support from to make that application come to
      fruition.  And we, as a company, are supplying the
      connectivity piece for that project.  So we
      essentially are a part of your consortium on the
      traffic side, the data traffic side.  But we do expect
      that the companies that are developing the ideas for
      the application will go out and recruit the other
      necessary companies to make that happen.  And then, as
      a package, you come to us for the network itself.  So
      that's basically how we view that.

              PANELIST:  I think also that -- and we
      talked earlier about the willing participants' list
      that we have.  We have a list that has vendors that
      provide software, hardware, consulting services,
      system integration, any number of things that, you
      know, we would be willing to talk to a project manager
      about:  These are the components I don't have for my
      project.  We would then get some information on that,
      contact the people on that list, and say:  Here's a
      project.  Would you be willing to work with this
      project?  And then they would contact you back and
      say:  Yes, this is a project that, yeah, we would work
      on.

              PARTICIPANT:  A quick comment on your
      response, then.  I think that whole process is going
      to need a lot of help in fostering, though.  In the
      military primes are developed over many years becoming
      recognized people that were in that position.  Right
      now you have, I believe, 6,000 suppliers that are
      looking at RFPs, and yet it's really difficult for
      these smaller companies to go ahead and sign up with
      whomever, you know, to help do this process, so --
      okay.  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hi.  The project I have in mind
      is similar to the one you were talking about, the
      health care nursing home, that we relied on video
      technology, and I don't know the technical aspects of
      what I just saw to know whether data means video also,
      or whether video is a special case that wasn't really
      dealt with much.

              PANELIST:  In that particular application it's
      telemedicine, and it was at -- end to end you have
      video systems that are connected over 56K lines, so
      essentially that's the hardware that's involved.  The
      application itself speaks for itself, the fact that
      they are basically, you know, they're doing the remote
      examination and remote results.  So the overall
      application was the examination, but the actual
      hardware involved was video conferencing, video
      equipment, and there are video vendors who are
      participants in the list, and we supply the lines.

              PANELIST:  And the network service line could
      be either SDS-56 or ISDN in that application.

              PARTICIPANT:  And so the hard finding, that
      dealing with the hardware piece of it, is the
      proponent's job with your help getting leased to these
      people.

              PANELIST:  Exactly.

              PARTICIPANT:  Now are these projects -- the
      project I'm thinking of could function in a limited
      way with existing technology, as I know it, but in the
      future it's got all sorts of more flexible mobile
      compact ways of being delivered.  Are these projects
      now -- to operate now or to operate in the future or
      on that -- I mean, can we talk about the future of
      this?

              PANELIST:  As far as your actual project, when
      you submit it via RFP, you are submitting also a
      schedule.  You are saying:  We need approximately nine
      months or a year or two years to see this thing
      happen.  We envision starting about in -- okay.  Now,
      if the project is accepted, then after awards are
      made, we actually sit down with those teams and say:
      Okay, let's hammer down a schedule, an actual start
      and stop date.  So you have to at least envision a
      time period and what you are going to accomplish
      within that period.  Regardless of, whether in five
      years maybe this is going to be a whole new thing for
      you, but right now what can you do within two years,
      what benefit can you get within two years.  That's
      what you need to focus on.

              PARTICIPANT:  But we could define some of the
      parameters and questions that are going to come up in
      the future and maybe design some of the equipment.
      Anyway, I don't want to take up this time with that.

              PANELIST:  I think part of what you would want
      to put in your plan is what's the evolution of the
      project over time.

              PARTICIPANT:  Right.

              PANELIST:  Maybe have a particular technology
      or a particular idea that you would begin with, and
      then how would that planning fall over a one-year,
      two-year period of time to the final cut.

              PARTICIPANT:  Right.  Okay.  And again, this
      is real small.  If you get it, and you say this
      matches up well with this group over here, would you
      make that connection or would you tell that group
      about this project or --

              PANELIST:  You mean --

              PARTICIPANT:  If you are selecting 20 or 15, I
      don't know, you know --

              PANELIST:  Like putting two different people
      that apply together, is that what you are asking?

              PARTICIPANT:  If this application is similar
      to someone else's application -- a different -- you
      know, you are doing the medical thing and someone else
      is doing something, it's not medical, but it's totally
      similar in terms of the technology, might you put
      those together?

              PANELIST:  We would still separate them in
      that they were benefiting two separate arenas, plus
      this is a competitive bid situation, so we would still
      view it as two projects.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.

              PANELIST:  Now, if there were gaps, and we
      found two projects and they could fill each other's
      gaps, that's a different story.  I think we could say:
      Okay, let's have these guys talk.  But if I have two
      complete projects, they are competing, and that's the
      way we'd have to handle that.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PANELIST:  Okay.

              PARTICIPANT:  Good morning.  I'm Leon Chavez
      from NASA Ames.

              I have two questions.  One has to do with
      changing lanes.  I believe ATM data rates go below 45
      megabits down to 1.5 megabits, say, so have you
      considered extending ATM service to lower than 45 so
      it will be easier to increase speed and change lanes?

              PANELIST:  Because the 1.544 access to ATM is
      not really standard yet, we are considering offering
      that as a service in the future.  I don't have a time
      frame on when that will be available, however.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  And then my second
      question is the government part of this proposal, is
      that city governments, county governments, state
      governments, federal governments?

              PANELIST:  Right, yes.

              PARTICIPANT:  It does include federal?

              PANELIST:  It would include any government
      agency.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hello.  I'm Will Harold with
      Westberg & White Architects, and we also do the
      Hillsborough School District that you mentioned.  The
      first question is in regard to project management.
      You stress the need for strong project management.

              PANELIST:  Yes.

              PARTICIPANT:  Is the project management fee
      picked up by the school district, or is that something
      that Pac Bell does in the CalREN program or --

              PANELIST:  No, it isn't.  Project management
      will be a piece that is donated by one of the
      participants.  The only thing that CalREN funds, and
      this is by contract and according to the trust fund,
      is that traffic.  We can't spend money on anything
      other than installation or traffic costs.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.

              PANELIST:  But anything else within the
      project, the project management, the hardware, the
      software, those types of things have to either be
      donated or supplied by the participants.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  And second, once this
      network is in, I guess you have a two-year free lease
      on the equipment or on the network itself?

              PANELIST:  Well, you have, from us you have --
      first of all, you've described your project and how
      much time you need, and you have up to two years, so
      you get two years of funding from us for the traffic.
      As far as the other pieces that you've gotten from
      other parts of your consortium, those are individual
      agreements between you and the other partners as to
      how long you can keep their equipment, et cetera.  And
      I would imagine that they would be willing to donate
      it for the two-year process.  So if you submit a bid
      with me for two years, and I'm looking at the willing
      participants' list to get you some parts, I am going
      to express to them that this is a two-year project,
      and their agreement would be to supply you for the
      duration of that project.

              PARTICIPANT:  Is there any estimates in the
      cost of what this is going to cost for the user to,
      say, use teleconferencing or anything, the rates, any
      projections on that?

              PANELIST:  If it's a project, it's nothing,
      unless you are involving long distance, because we're
      taking care of those rates.

              PARTICIPANT:  For the two-year period?

              PANELIST:  For the two-year period, right.

              PARTICIPANT:  And then after the two-year
      period?

              PANELIST:  Then you have a choice to pick it
      up yourself.

              PARTICIPANT:  And do you have any estimates on
      that rate?

              PANELIST:  There are prices, yes, for ISDN
      service, and so on, that are published, yes.  So we
      could calculate that up for you, definitely, what the
      costs are, yeah.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PANELIST:  I think the other resource, by the
      way, to bring this up, the other resource that you
      have besides the CalREN staff to be looking at, for
      example, the products are tariff products -- and they
      are at least tariff products.  If there are Pacific
      Bell account teams that are available, most customers
      have an account team assigned, and that Pacific Bell
      account team can help you with things, such as the
      price of the products, you know, the availability of
      product, those kinds of things.  They can assist you
      in putting together a proposal.  So if you know who
      your account team is, you know, feel free to contact
      them and talk to them about the services that are a
      part of CalREN.

              PARTICIPANT:  All right, thanks.

              PARTICIPANT:  Good morning.  I am Hart
      Botterel.  I'm with the Governor's Office of Emergency
      Services, and I am a member of a group who have been
      working in a rather general sense for some time on
      what we refer to as establishing an emergency lane on
      the information superhighway.  And this, we are very
      serious about this, particularly since some of our
      existing systems seem to be in the breakdown lane
      currently.
              I am concerned about the business of building
      the partnerships and coalitions that are going to be
      involved in successful proposals.  I understand the
      constraints that you are dealing with, so what I came
      up here to do was to volunteer that within the scope
      of public safety and emergency management proposals,
      if there are, in fact, very many of those, my office
      would be willing to serve as a point of contact for
      anybody who wants to be known and would like to do a
      little bit of, you should pardon the expression,
      "networking."

              PANELIST:  Okay.

              PARTICIPANT:  So, I'll make myself available
      now, and maybe that's something we can do by way of a
      service.

              PANELIST:  Great.

              PANELIST:  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  Art Botterell.  It's
      B-o-t-t-e-r-e-l-l.  I'm with the Office of Emergency
      Services in Sacramento, and I'll be probably over by
      the doorway.

              PANELIST:  What's your phone number?

              PARTICIPANT:  What the heck.  [phone].
      And for those of you with Internet mail, ACB@OES
      .CA.GOV, which I mention because it's far and
      away the best way to find me these days.

              PANELIST:  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  My name is Don Plenewell.  I'm
      the project management specialist.
              I would like to make a couple of
      recommendations, one of which has probably been made
      earlier, in regard to getting a list of the people
      here.  I would recommend that the people who want to
      be identified perhaps identify themselves.  Those that
      do not wish to be identified -- because I think the
      program would move a lot faster if the people in this,
      represented by this particular community could do a
      little cross-pollination.

              PANELIST:  Okay.

              PARTICIPANT:  The other recommendation I would
      like to make is in reviewing the RFPs, it appears like
      the area of cost benefit evaluation is going to be a
      very prime part of the selection process.  I would
      recommend perhaps in the areas of some further thought
      being given to a method of specifying these cost
      benefits whereby the selection committees could make
      more of an apples-to-apples comparison.  It would seem
      like what you are going to get is possibly in the same
      area totally different viewpoints and statements of
      benefits, and perhaps some thought could be given to
      perhaps giving some quantitative guidelines as to how
      you would evaluate these benefits.

              PANELIST:  On that subject, frankly, selection
      process will have the least -- will have -- we will be
      considering cost probably as the least of all
      criteria.  Selection process will mainly be looking at
      the merit of the application and the benefit of it,
      because the funds, again, have been earmarked, so they
      are there, and we will be able to support quite a few
      projects.  So it is more a question of the merit of
      the project, number one.  Number two, in terms of your
      project management, does it look strong; in other
      words, does it have a high degree of likelihood of
      success.  Okay.

              PARTICIPANT:  My question is how does one
      state the merit of the project in terms that you can
      compare one to the other?

              PANELIST:  Basically, it's essentially a
      narrative of how it's benefiting either the community
      or the State of California or an industry, so I think
      that's what's key.  You have to let us know how this
      application you are going to put out there is going to
      be beneficial to the largest segment, if you will,
      beneficial to the state, beneficial to the community,
      beneficial to health care itself or to education, so
      it's got to be fairly global in terms of it.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  Good morning.  I do have two
      questions, but before I ask the question, I do want to
      applaud Pacific Bell on taking the initiative to bring
      something like this to the marketplace, and all of us
      in health care, primarily, have been looking forward
      to something like this occurring in the State of
      California.  We also know that there, for example, in
      North Carolina there are some very good examples that
      have been set for the superhighway concept as it
      relates to health care.  So I do want to take this
      opportunity to take my hat off to you folks for
      bringing such a project to market here.
              The first question I have is:  Ron, you
      alluded to the fact that the project has to be
      managed, for example, the ATM switch is going to be in
      San Francisco.  There are a lot of us -- I'm with
      Sierra Health in Sacramento.  We have hospitals
      throughout Northern California.  However, if the spoke
      of the hub is resident in the Bay area, as well as
      Sacramento, if the portion of the network management
      resides in Sacramento, does that make this a feasible
      project for us?

              PANELIST:  What we are saying is that the
      project manager, okay, and the management of the
      project should take place in the Bay, within one of
      those area codes.  So, if you have a problem with that
      in terms of where you want to manage from, the way to
      alleviate that is A, you have to have a connection in
      the Bay area, but B, you probably should have a
      participating partner in the Bay area so that that can
      be the base of your management.  Okay?  [The Bay Area
         Area Codes supported under CalREN are 415, 510, and
         408 as far south was Watsonville.]

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.

              PANELIST:  So what I am saying is that the
      project can go forward even though it's got a leg in
      Sacramento or elsewhere, but we view that it should be
      managed by a partner that is local to us.  [There may be
         technology deployment issues which would preclude some
         sites that fall outside the specified CalREN geography.]

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Thank you.

              My next question relates to tariffs.  I think
      the gentleman before me asked the fact that during the
      pilot, yes, you will fund this for 24 months.  The
      project is a success -- however, what rates can be
      locked in, you know, for we don't want to go into a
      project, and all of a sudden we find out that the
      tariffs or the rates have gone sky high and we can't
      afford the pilot anymore.  Are there any guidelines
      that are going to be set prior to the project being
      completed as to what we can expect the average cost to
      be on this network?

              PANELIST:  Through your local AE and
      representatives of Pac Bell for tariff products, and
      most of these are already tariffed, you can actually
      get an existing rate.  And for those that are in
      negotiation for tariffing, there will be test bed
      rates in terms of, you know, we have test beds for
      some of these products, so there are test bed rates,
      so that you will be able to get an idea of the
      costing.  We can't lock it in, because at the end of
      the tariffing process is when we actually get a price.
      So the ones that are tariffed already, there are rates
      that we can actually give you right now and say this
      is what it is going to cost.  But for things that are
      within the tariff process today, we won't have a final
      rate for that until the tariff is completed.  But in
      the meantime, as far as these projects go, a lot of
      these projects are based on test bed network.  And in
      that case there are some estimates for test bed
      pricing that you could get from Pac Bell itself.
                 PARTICIPANT:  These rates are non-negotiable?

              PANELIST:  Yes.  At this time, yes, because
      they are in flux.  They are in flux at this moment, so
      we could not say to you:  Okay, at the end of 24
      months, ATM will cost you X.  That's impossible
      because we are in negotiations for the rates now.

              PARTICIPANT:  With the pending competition, do
      you see that changing?

              PANELIST:  With competition it is likely to only go
      down.

              PANELIST:  I think the other option that you
      have here is as your project nears the completion and
      that we say we will fund up to two years, if you can
      put in place an application that's developed over a
      one-year period of time, then perhaps you don't want
      to use the whole two years for that development.  But
      I believe the tariff services would be available under
      a contract basis beyond the actual project itself.  So
      if the project is a success, then I would begin
      talking to your account team about acquiring those
      services over a contract that Pacific Bell can do.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  Michael Forinos with Pangea
      Consulting.

              A number of my colleagues have suggested that
      we have some other list, and I came up to ask for
      basically the same thing.  May I make a suggestion,
      since time is of the essence, and we should probably
      be as proactive as possible, would it be possible for
      those of us who do want to be on this list and
      included to put our fax number on the list that you've
      already collected at the beginning as we came in, and
      then you can cull through that and fax to us a list of
      all of those who want their names distributed?

              PANELIST:  So you are saying that by putting
      your fax number on that list out there, you are
      acknowledging you want your name out there?

              PARTICIPANT:  That's what I'm suggesting.

              PANELIST:  I don't have a problem with that.
         [We subsequently realized that faxing was an unreasonable
         solution, so we have included the list in Appendix C.]

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Also, I would like to
      know how would one get on the willing participant
      list?

              PANELIST:  Just give me the business card.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  The other question I had
      was more related to cost and the cloud.  You have a
      number of clouds on all of your slides.  What is
      Pacific Bell doing internally during this development
      process to push the hub closer to the edges of the
      cloud, that is, how much deployment are you planning
      over this two-year period so that when you do pull the
      funding away we have an access line that is going a
      short distance to a close local point to reduce our
      costs when the network is no longer free.

              PANELIST:  I think the major project to
      address that is the $16 billion investment to bring
      fiber to every street corner.  That's essentially
      what's going to bring a lot of the cost down.

              PARTICIPANT:  Will that happen within the
      two-year period?

              PANELIST:  No.

              PARTICIPANT:  What about the switching, what
      about deployment of switching services, switching
      equipment?  In COs, for example, there are 187 or so
      COs spread throughout California.  Will you have Frame
      Relay and SMDS switches deployed in all of those COs?

              PANELIST:  Frame Relay and SMDS are both
      LATAwide services independent of how many switches
      there are in that LATA.  The cost is the same whether
      you are in Eureka or San Jose.

              PARTICIPANT:  Is that true because the DS1/DS3
      access lines are paid for by distance, not --

              PANELIST:  DS1s, DS3 access lines:  DS1s are
      currently tariffed.  DS3s are on an individual case
      basis.  And the access lines are just from the
      customer premise, priced from the customer premise to
      the serving central office, so there is no mileage
      with either Frame Relay or SMDS tariff offerings.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  My name is Jim Williams.  I am
      from Health Desk, a health software developer, and
      this may be an easy question, but I am clear on how
      CalREN will contribute to the funding of these pilot
      collaborations.  Where I am fuzzy is exactly what
      CalREN plans to do with the results of these pilots.
      As someone mentioned, I think it was Hal, you were
      looking for in proposals information about
      commercialization, and how would that work into the
      final result?

              PANELIST:  If you take a global view of what
      we are doing, what we're saying about the projects
      themselves is that they should be open and public, and
      that after the trials are over with that, anyone who
      has participated can assume the idea and go commercial
      with it.  That's essentially what we are saying, that
      the situation is open and public, if, in fact, you've
      discovered that, you know, this is something you can
      go commercial with, number one.

              Number two, in terms of what CalREN is doing
      with it, we are coming up with reports for internal,
      as well as external, marketing about the projects and,
      again, how they've affected the state, how they've
      been successful.

              PARTICIPANT:  I see.

              PANELIST:  We are also tied in to Washington,
      D.C.  Vice President Gore has been out here recently
      and has seen the program itself and commented on it.
      So we are looking -- it's twofold.  We are looking to
      see good results, to show how this helps and to
      participate in superhighway as well as getting reports
      to marketing of the various participants that says:
      Okay, this is a good idea, and in the future, if you
      want to continue it as commercial, that is up to you
      to do so.

              PANELIST:  I think -- just one more comment.
      There may be parts of your project that are
      proprietary, that you wish to keep proprietary.

              PARTICIPANT:  Exactly.  From the software
      developer's standpoint, that's what I'm interested in.

              PANELIST:  Right.  So we don't care to know
      your proprietary information.  We would hope that you
      would not put proprietary information in your RFP
      response.  So we are looking for that proprietary
      information to stay proprietary.  But the application
      itself, the benefits of the application and the
      development of our network in relationship to your
      application is what we hope to be able to publicize
      and commercialize later on.

              PARTICIPANT:  I see.  I see, as well as the
      business that may extend from successful pilots to
      you.

              PANELIST:  Yes.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Thanks.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hi.  I'm Jim Fardeen with
      Integrated Systems Solutions, and I have a couple of
      questions.
              In going through the slides, there were
      different products discussed.  When we submit our
      application, assuming we got collaboration and
      everything, when we submit our application, would you
      then help, let's say, the collaborative effort in
      deciding which would be the best method to achieve the
      goal, or is that up to the project manager, software
      person, government person, et cetera, to say:  This is
      how we want to go.  That's what I'm looking for.

              PANELIST:  The first part of that I would say
      is that we are looking for the project itself to
      answer that question, because one of the things that
      we are looking for in the project management, as well
      as project leadership, is the knowledge base that they
      bring to the project.  If they are not aware of the
      technology that would perform this application, then
      there would be a feeling that perhaps this team cannot
      get this project off the ground.  So we would expect
      that they would have the knowledge base or would
      demonstrate in the RFP response which technology they
      want to use as well as all the components.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  The second question:  If
      the RFP were awarded, when are the start and end
      dates, or is that flexible?

              PANELIST:  Once we award the RFPs, we contact
      all the parties that have been awarded, we schedule
      meetings, and then -- these are negotiation meetings
      where we sit down and say:  Okay, when do you want
      this to start?  We will check out deployment
      possibilities, and we actually do a schedule with you,
      and this is after award, to do the project, to where
      it is going to be located and how long it is going to
      run for.

              PARTICIPANT:  So those tangible details are
      worked out after the award.

              PANELIST:  Exactly.  What we would like from
      you as far as scheduling goes is an estimate of we
      would like to start in X and end in X, but we will do
      the details after awards in terms of when you can
      actually start and stop.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hi.  I'm Dave Barney from
      De Anza College.

              If we have a project that wants to be an RFP,
      what is the process for contacting you for willing
      partners?

              PANELIST:  For willing partners.  Okay, you
      say you have an idea for a project and you want to --
      well, two ways.  Again, networking within the group
      here.  Number two, if there is a particular partner
      that you're after because you know they can fulfill
      that need, you can call us, and if we have them on the
      participants' list, we will call them and say:  Hey,
      they are interested, they may have these needs, and we
      will put you together.

              PARTICIPANT:  What is the time line that you
      are anticipating?  Would we phone you, leave a
      message, and you'd get back to us in a week?  How
      would we know that some activity was taking place?

              PANELIST:  Phone us, and we try and respond to
      calls within a day. [Call 1-800-CalREN7.]

              PARTICIPANT:  And if we don't hear anything
      back from these partners that you have contacted,
      what's the next step at that point?

              PANELIST:  I will keep on the partners.  I
      have agreements that the partners will respond to
      this.  And if they are fuzzy or they don't want to
      participate, they will tell me they don't want to
      participate.  What they would want is a clear notion
      of what the application is and how much of their
      equipment would it involve.  That's the kind of thing
      that they would need to know.  And at that point, they
      would let me know before talking to you, yes, we want
      to look at this or no.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PANELIST:  I think there is a third option for
      you, too.  And that is you may even have a particular
      equipment provider in mind, and in that case, we are
      not -- we would be willing to talk to that equipment
      provider about their willingness to participate.

              PARTICIPANT:  Are you suggesting that we would
      give you a suggestion then of who it is that we would
      like to work with?

              PANELIST:  We would definitely give them a
      call.

              PARTICIPANT:  Sometimes it is difficult to
      know within a large organization who to contact to
      find out that answer, so it is possibly easier for you
      folks to do that than it would be for us as a college.
      Is that a role that you are comfortable with?

              PANELIST:  Well, there are customers that have
      been already working with a particular manufacturer,
      and so it is not unusual for them to call and say:
      I'm working with manufacturer XYZ, and I have talked
      to them briefly about doing something, but would you,
      Pacific Bell, talk to them?  We'd be happy to do that.
      There may be contacts that we have that you may not
      have.  I'm not sure.  We'd have to talk about that
      particular manufacturer.

              PARTICIPANT:  Very good.  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  I'm Ed Klingman with ISDN Tech.

              Could I just briefly ask for a show of hands
      of people who are interested in ISDN as part of this
      proposal as opposed to ATM or something else?

              As most of you who raised your hand know, ISDN
      has been a long time coming.  I've been working on it
      since '87.  Recently Pac Bell said they will provide
      100 percent availability of ISDN by 1997.

              With the new fiber optics, the new $16 billion
      program, there is some fear on my part that this will
      result in backsliding in ISDN so that some small
      communities will have 500 channels and the whole
      people of California will not have ISDN by 1997.  Ella
      has answered some of my questions, but she does not
      know all of the answers.  I would like to get some
      answers to this.  And if I approach them as one
      person, you know how much clout I have, so I would
      like to volunteer that if you are concerned with the
      same thing, that ISDN will backslide so we can have
      500 channels of television, that you can give me your
      card, and I will try to get some answers, and I will
      communicate these answers to you.  So Ed Klingman and
      I will be by the door.

              PANELIST:  Okay.  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hi.  I'm Gerry Kaiman from
      Pacific Hydro, and I was going to borrow Art's idea
      from before about using this opportunity to get some
      partners.  So later on, if you want to meet me in the
      back, I was looking for partners in environmental
      agencies, American River boating and recreation,
      government areas, anything to do with the hydropower
      industry.  We are a small group, and so we are looking
      for an industry perspective.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hello.  I work for a State of
      California agency, and I would like a little more
      clarification on what you meant when you said the
      project should become commercial or commercially
      viable in two years at its conclusion.  What does that
      mean for a government agency if we are talking about a
      database that might stimulate California economy that
      we would maintain, for example?

              PANELIST:  I think for a state agency more
      than commercialization, it's utilization across
      different agencies or across different government,
      different governments, you know, state, city, federal,
      so it's an application that we can take the benefits
      of that application and then we can use it, you know,
      or transport it to other agencies such as City Net,
      for example, in Cupertino, you know, or developing
      applications so the public has access to city and
      school district information.  At the end of two years,
      we would like to see them be successful and be able to
      publicize the results of that so that the other cities
      and school districts can then utilize that information
      for that application.

              PARTICIPANT:  But not in a profit making way
      at all?

              PANELIST:  No.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Thank you.

              PANELIST:  Are there any additional questions?

              PARTICIPANT:  Yes.  I'm Jim Owens.  I am sales
      director for a medical software company.  And I'm not
      a technical representative, but I'd appreciate it if
      you could just tell me, if we are looking for the same
      capability remotely as with a local area network and
      looking at single-frame medical images, are the
      hardware requirements significantly different than,
      and presumably they are, than if we were looking for,
      say, full motion, high resolution imagings, such as
      city images and geography?

              PANELIST:  Generally, yes, especially the
      transport itself would be a larger transport, you
      know, a larger pipe size.  So in the equipment still
      versus full motion video, yes, your equipment is going
      to vary, definitely, the end user hardware.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Would it be easy to tell
      me which of those would require the ATM capabilities,
      if either, for instance?

              PANELIST:  Which would require it?

              PARTICIPANT:  Um-hm.

              PANELIST:  None would require it.  You could
      get basic motion over 56K.  To go to ATM, you've
      really got to have some significant load reasons to go
      that way.  And you could get motion video on 56K, so
      generally it wouldn't be necessary to go that high to
      ATM.

              PANELIST:  I think to answer that question, we
      have one of the Pacific Bell Health Care Group people
      here who specializes in video and in images within the
      medical market, and maybe Mike would like to come up.

              This is Mike Smith from the Health Care Group
      at Pacific Bell, and maybe he could answer that
      question.

              PANELIST:  Great.  Thank you.

              I didn't catch the whole question, so --

              PANELIST:  Still motion video, would you need
      ATM?  Or what would be the product, and are there
      differences in the CPE that are required for still
      motion versus full motion in a medical application?

              PANELIST:  The simple answer is yes.  There is
      a lot of detailed information you need to gather to
      really determine exactly what type of -- how much
      information you are moving, what type of images, what
      type of -- how big is the amount of data you are
      trying to move, how fast you need it to be moved from
      point to point, what type of display are you using at
      either end has a factor also.  Once you've determined
      that, then you should be looking at what network
      service can meet your requirements, and then based on
      that network service, you can determine what kind of
      data communications equipment you would use to
      complement that service.  You can do everything from
      video on everything from switched 56, I'm not sure, ATM
      certainly has the band width, but I don't know if it
      is a proper fit for that technology.

              PANELIST:  For video, ATM can do video.  SMDS
      and Frame Relay are suited for stored video service,
      not real time video.

              PANELIST:  Okay?

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PANELIST:  Thank you, Michael.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hal, you had mentioned that --
      these mikes are never right for normal size people --
      the program would look favorably on projects that
      increase the effectiveness of communication between
      different government agencies, between state, federal,
      local.  What about projects that would increase the
      ability to communicate between government agencies and
      private industry?

              PANELIST:  I think that's one of the critical
      factors, and I think that's part of, for example, the
      City Net process where the city is putting things,
      such as building permits and licenses and so forth, on
      the City Net, so if you are a city -- if you are a
      business within the city, you can communicate with the
      city and acquire those business formation kinds of
      things without going into the city itself.  I think we
      would look at things like, you know, suppliers to an
      organization, customers' involvement in that
      organization, communication between the citizens of a
      government agency and the agency itself.  So any kind
      of collaboration between multiple organizations or
      individuals would be looked upon favorably.  And we
      would hope that a part of that collaboration would be
      some underserved community, free clinic, you know,
      battered women association, something of that nature,
      that would also be a part of that collaboration.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PANELIST:  Okay.

              Are there any more questions?  If not, thank
      you.  It is time to meet everybody by the back door.

                            ---o0o---

                            Appendix B
                            Section 2

San Francisco Education RFP Briefing Session
Question & Answer Transcript
On the afternoon of December 7, 1993, CalREN conducted a
Briefing Session in San Francisco for those interested
in responding to the Education RFP.  Minor editorial
changes have been made to some questions and answers to
provide additional clarity.  Corrected answers and
important notes are shown in brackets.
    (Note:  All participants' names are spelled phonetically.)

                            ---o0o---

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you very much for your
      presentation.  For those of us that are in education,
      we may have a very strong concept of the educational
      program we want to deliver, the format we want to use,
      the audiences we want to serve, the partners we want
      to be involved with, but we may not know the answers
      as to whether we need ISDN or Frame Relay.  Will
      you -- is there a technical assistance when we get our
      RFP to the point that we have taken it conceptually
      and from a point of view of delivery that we can sit
      down with someone to help answer those questions for
      us?

              PANELIST:  To understand your question, I
      understand in the education community this will be a
      concern where you have the concept, the idea of what
      you want to do and the application, but you may not
      have the resources in terms of the technological
      expertise.  One of the resources that we recommend,
      especially for some of the larger institutions, many
      of you already have Pacific Bell account teams, and
      when you are at that point, that's the time to contact
      them, and they will be able to provide you assistance.
      Also, you know, we are recommending that you partner
      with someone who does have the technological
      expertise, and we set up a variety of mechanisms, the
      willing participants' list, as well as an informal
      networking list that we started today that also might
      assist you in this area.  [This is the list provided in
         Appendix C.]

              PARTICIPANT:  I think I have the answer.  I am
      going to ask Ron the question, but I just want to be
      sure I've got the right answer.  If we are based in
      the 415 area code, and we are using somebody in the
      707 and other ones, the long distance calls that are
      in Pac Bell you'll cover.  You were talking about long
      distance calls that went outside of your area?

              PANELIST:  What we are talking about is the
      moment an Inter-Exchange Carrier (IEC) or a long distance
         company is involved in that transaction to get from here to
         Sacramento,that piece of that transaction is not covered by
      CalREN.  That must be covered by the project or it
      must be donated by the IEC.  So as soon as you go long
      distance there is a piece that an IEC picks up, and
      that's where -- what you would have to negotiate for
      them to donate, or you would have to pay for it, "you"
      being the project.  CalREN cannot pay the long
      distance bill.

              Come on up so we can hear you.

              PARTICIPANT:  I just have a question.  If you
      wanted to do full motion video, as well as data, can
      your lines now with the ATM or with the Frame Relay
      take that multimedia full motion video?

              PANELIST:  It's dependent on -- we can do
      stored video, we can do full motion video if you -- it
      depends on if you are sending audio or -- we have a
      problem when you're doing both audio and video at the
      same time, because it's not --

              PARTICIPANT:  In sync --

              PANELIST:  Yeah.

              PARTICIPANT:  -- yet.

              PANELIST:  The audio won't arrive at the same
      time that your mouth is moving on the video.  ATM,
      however, can support both of those.  But if you are
      looking at an application where it is stored video or
      it is without the audio portion, you're just sending a
      clip of something, SMDS and our Frame Relay can.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  What constitutes adequate
      documentation like you go and you line up these people
      who are going to be in this consortium of groups.
      What do you have, a letter from the CEO?  How specific
      does that need to be, et cetera?  How do you put
      together the documentation of your consortium?

              PANELIST:  What you are essentially doing is,
      outside of just describing your application, you will
      have to detail what's involved in supporting that
      application in terms of the hardware and software, and
      at that point identify that either you have the
      software and hardware yourself or you are getting it
      from some other entity.  So we are taking your word
      for the point that you have the product.  Okay?  And
      it is key if you don't have the product that you let
      us know so we can help you find it, because if you
      don't -- if you end up not having the product, then
      obviously you get canceled, and what happens is you
      have now taken a space from someone or some group that
      may have had everything lined up.  So what's key here
      is not that you have to have proof that XYZ Company is
      going to support you, although what's going to happen
      is that company's going to want to be involved.  It is
      not so much about calling Apple and Apple sending you,
      you know, a few computers.  Apple will want to be at
      press conferences.  Apple will want to be a
      significant partner, an equal partner in the whole
      situation.  So really what happens is the whole team,
      you know, your correspondence to us will come from the
      team, though you'll have a project manager.  If you
      say you are getting equipment from three different
      companies, then those three companies should be
      represented in your documentation.  We are taking your
      word that that has happened if, in fact, you don't
      need our help to get equipment.  But most of these
      different entities that supply you with equipment or
      services are going to want to be involved on the
      public relations side of that very much so.

              PARTICIPANT:  I'm Bill Yundt from Stanford
      University and BARRNET, the Bay Area Regional Research
      Network.

              I have a couple of technically related
      questions.  One is if a project concept would benefit
      potentially from SMDS and initially might need, might
      be able to do with a low-speed connection, a one and a
      half megabit connection, a 2/1 based tail circuit but
      had a potential for growing a lot, should it be
      proposed, will it be possible under the grants to
      start with one level of service and increase to a
      different level of service, and will the increase in
      the actual speed of the tail circuit be provided under
      the grant, or is that something that we have to
      provide?

              PANELIST:  What you'll need to do is, whatever
      that end point is, you are starting at SMDS, and you
      say you want to get to ATM at some point --

              PARTICIPANT:  In this case it would be just a
      tariff rated SMDS that starts low and goes higher.

              PANELIST:  Oh, that is not a problem.  You
      just need to identify in your proposal that this is
      the peak, this is where you want to go, and this is
      about when you want to go there.  What will happen is
      we will reserve the funding for that increase for your
      project.  So we need to know out front that, yes, we
      ultimately need to get to X so we can fund for that.

              PARTICIPANT:  Fine.  A second question.  If a
      project might benefit by having equipment co-located
      in Pacific Bell central offices, is there any
      possibility of an arrangement to do that?

              PANELIST:  On that one, if you call me
      personally about that, I would say possibly, but I
      can't tell you definitely.

              PANELIST:  We'd have to get back to you.

              PANELIST:  I would think that that's something
      that's workable, but that's something you'd have to
      directly talk to us about.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  The third question was it
      wasn't clear to me whether primary rate ISDN is
      actually being offered as part of one of the available
      service offerings, and if so, whether it is primary
      rate ISDN that is connected with a particular switch
      architecture, i.e., a 5ESS or an DMS-100 or a --

              PANELIST:  We have primary ISDN tariffed, and
      it is one of the offerings that comes from both the
      DMS-100 or the 5ESS.  The problem is that it is not
      very ubiquitously available, so we really have to look
      at where you are to see if it would be reasonable that
      you could get it, because it is only deployed
      statewide in 12 switches, so it is really kind of a
      limiting factor for primary rate ISDN.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  I attended the bidders'
      conference for Pac Bell grant that provided a
      connection to Internet on the basis of allowing 50
      simultaneous signals back and forth.  What is the
      connection in terms of technically to the lines that
      you are talking about?  I mean, is that still possible
      in the areas that this proposal RFP is going for?

              PANELIST:  I'm not clear on it.  You are
      saying that your application will need the support of
      50 lines intraInternet; is that what you are saying?

              PARTICIPANT:  Yeah, what I am saying is that
      was another RFP that Pac Bell put out.  I am wondering
      whether this technology offers the same kind of
      utility.  I mean, I'm not versed enough in the
      technology to understand it, but in order to have
      perhaps 50 computers through a router, and then next
      year your LAN going towards Internet and receiving
      simultaneous communication.

              PANELIST:  Are you referring to the Knowledge
      Network Gateway Sites?  Does that sound familiar?

              PARTICIPANT:  Right.

              PANELIST:  Okay.  I believe we have some
      Knowledge Network representatives here if you have
      some specific questions about that.  And I am also not
      versed on all of the intricacies of that offering, but
      we are working with our Knowledge Network team within
      CalREN, although it is not necessarily part of all
      the education projects.

              Each one of the services you've heard a
      presentation about today can access the Internet from
      a 50 PC LAN through a router.  You can use any of the
      services that were discussed today to access the
      Internet as long as the Internet access provider, as
      long as you have service with an Internet access
      provider and that Internet access provider also
      subscribes to, for instance, if you are using SMDS,
      our SMDS service, as well.

              PANELIST:  I think a key answer for you, what
      I think you are really looking for is if, in fact, you
      have an application that you've heard of may be in
      existence at Bell in some form or fashion, still
      submit your application, because if it fits with
      something that exists, we may dovetail it to it, and
      if it doesn't fit with something that exists, that is,
      your application, that we will try to fund as a
      separate application just like any other application.
      So do not submit because you think it may be an
      existing thing within Bell.  Still submit what your
      requirements are and what your application is going to
      be, and we will handle it just as an individual
      project.  If it happens to fit something that we've
      got running, of course, we would use those facilities
      to do it.

              PARTICIPANT:  Simple.  A similar question this
      time.  What is the highest quality digital images that
      can pass through these lines of communication at the
      same time as we communicate, the same lines, what is
      the highest resolution digital image that can pass
      through the same lines?

              PANELIST:  I think really it all depends on
      what, I mean, what you are really passing through,
      what you are passing the images to.  Okay?  You can
      pass very high resolution images.  It really depends
      upon how large that image is and how fast you require
      the device on the end to get that image.  Okay?  So, I
      mean, you can pass a very high -- higher resolution
      files are just going to be larger, so the time to send
      it will just be greater.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Is that still the photo
      quality 32 megabit image?

              PANELIST:  Are you talking about to do things
      like manipulate a photo, for instance?

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  How about this scenario?
      Digitized artwork, the same lines that you communicate
      verbally with real time video or a stored video.

              PANELIST:  Digitized artwork.

              PANELIST:  I think what you are saying, you're
      saying you want to send that image, as well as do
      other things on the same line at the same time?

              PARTICIPANT:  Yes.

              PANELIST:  In an image situation we would
      probably want to just send the image over the line.
      We would want to make that a digital image network
      application, use that line for that purpose and not
      necessarily blend the phone call or voice over it
      while you are doing it.  If you are really concerned
      about the quality of that image at the other end,
      you'd say:  We want that line for image, period.  And
      in that case, the quality will be as high at the other
      end as it is at the source.

              PANELIST:  Right.

              PANELIST:  And also the timing would not be
      dragged out.  Because, again, if you start putting
      that together, it is going to take much longer for
      that image to go, and that's a higher expense.  Even
      though we are paying that expense, that is a higher
      expense, and we are concerned about that.  So we would
      be concerned that your application stated:  We want to
      transfer video images.  That's our application.

              PANELIST:  And here's how large the file is.
      That will derive how long it will take to get that
      image across the network.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hi.  I'm Ted Kahn from the
      Institute of Research on Learning.

              I have two questions in relationship to this,
      to some possible federal grants that are coming out of
      places like the National Science Foundation, and the
      timing on them is sort of interesting.  It is a
      question of cost sharing, and if a group goes in for a
      grant, and the deadline for the application is almost
      exactly the same as it is here, there is a waiting
      period, an NSF, where you are sort of sitting and
      waiting, and what they are looking for is cost sharing
      on behalf of service providers so that they don't have
      to pay the full bill of the R&D.  So the question is
      if you like the project and it turns out an
      organization is waiting to hear an answer from an
      organization like this, is there a place holder kind
      of an idea that is contingent on funding from a
      federal source where you could reserve a space for a
      project you like?  That's one question.

              PANELIST:  In the RFP we acknowledge that
      issue, and we do say for you to include any
      contingencies that are involved in your project.
      Obviously any projects that have all the pieces there
      and are ready to go will be pushed forward, but we are
      aware of these funding issues, so we will take that
      into consideration in the review of the project.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  The second is is there
      any way you can give us an idea of sort of the value
      of these services in terms of cost to provide it?  So,
      for example, you are talking about three different
      rates of service that clearly cost a whole lot more
      than regular pot service, so some sense of what the
      contribution and kind of service might be on an
      application on a month-by-month basis so that we can
      get an idea of that?

              PANELIST:  I don't know the actual monthly
      charges, but they are public, and simply the monthly
      charge by 24 months plus the installation, I mean, it
      is fairly easy to get the ballpark figure on it,
      because all those rates are pretty much published
      except for ATM and Frame Relay, which is still in
      tariffing process now, but generally the monthly rate
      plus the installation times 24.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.

              PARTICIPANT:  I'm Carol Pearson from KQED.

              We are interested in innerconnecting radio
      stations around the state, and I'm just wondering -- I
      mean, it doesn't sound like that technology exists yet
      to do that, and I'm wondering what kind of timetable
      and if that would work within the --

              PANELIST:  KQED, KCBS, KSAN, you are all doing
      it right now.  To do digitized audio, it's 7.1
      kilohertz.  Audio is an automatic piece of ISDN; you
      just get it.  Some other vendors have things out there
      today where you can put two ISDN lines together with a
      digital audio Codec, and you can get CD quality audio
      or 40 kilohertz audio out of two ISDN lines, and it's
      an application that's time has arrived, and KCBS, as a
      matter of fact, won't even take like their ski reports
      or things like that from somebody who can't give it to
      them using either ISDN or Switched 56.  They will tell
      their suppliers:  If you can't do it at 7 kilohertz,
      you can't be our supplier anymore.  So if you want to
      talk about that more, anything like that in radio
      is pretty much there today.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  I am still struggling with how
      much detail you want in the physical design.  As I
      look at the RFP, I see that you want a logical design
      where it talks about the benefits and the project
      description and the objectives.  But taking that next
      step to do a detailed design of the entire
      application, including all the hardware pieces is a
      giant job or at least it can be a giant job.

              PANELIST:  Yeah, we agree.

              PARTICIPANT:  With the capacity planning side
      being the tail end piece, it says how wide the pipes
      need to be, how big the computers need to be and all
      that.

              Two questions:  One is the Pac Bell marketing
      teams, do they know -- are they really available to do
      that kind of design effort jointly with us?  I mean,
      if we call them, do they know what we are talking
      about?  That's the first question.

              PANELIST:  Okay.

              PARTICIPANT:  And the second question is
      what's the detail of design that you want, because --

              PANELIST:  Okay.  The detail of design,
      outside of clearly stating the application, is we need
      to know what that software is.  Okay?  Regardless of
      what you are calling it, we need to know that we are
      using X software to support this application.  We need
      to know what the hardware is that's involved that you
      are collecting end to end to support the application.
      From that alone we get an idea of connectivity.  So at
      that point, also from the software side, whoever has
      written the application is going to need to know what
      capacities they need to send it at.  In other words,
      they are going to have to have some idea how big a
      file is going to be produced and to be sent from A to
      B, or image, et cetera.  At that point we could match
      that with which particular flavor, and account teams
      at that level can do that.  But you, as the team, have
      to know at least that you're going to need a large enough
      pipe to do files of this size.  So if you get to us at
      least with the file sizes and those kinds of things,
      then the account teams can, in fact, from that state
      pick it up and sort of match it with a pipe size.

              PARTICIPANT:  And just like this with time
      because there is size and there is how many per --

              PANELIST:  Exactly.  There is size and there
      is a combination of time and size.  How fast, maybe in
      terms of seconds or minutes, do you need the image and
      how large are the images going to be, how many a day,
      how many an hour?  That kind of information you have
      to get to us before we can make a decision as to how
      big that pipe is going to be.  And that's the kind of
      detail we are talking about, that you identify where
      everything is coming from what the application is,
      what hardware are you going to use, we need to know
      that, what are the locations.  Okay.  And again, those
      things about how big an image, how fast, how far.
      With that kind of information, then the account teams,
      as well as part of the CalREN team from there can say
      this is really the way to go.

              PARTICIPANT:  I am Robert Todd from the San
      Francisco State Multimedia Studies Program.

              I notice that there is a separate RFP for ATM
      services, and it wasn't included in the overview of
      technologies for educational RFP, and I'm wondering if
      ATM services are going to be available through this
      RFP from CalREN?

              PANELIST:  If you can by application show need
      that you need ATM for X application, that would have
      to be submitted within the ATM deadlines.  Okay? [The
         deadline for San Francisco Bay Area ATM proposals was
         December 15, 1993.]

              PARTICIPANT:  Um-hm.

              PANELIST:  But you'd have to really show need,
      the fact that you really needed ATM for whatever it is
      you were going to do.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  And then if services are
      granted through CalREN, are those services available
      simply and solely for the project that was bid or can
      other projects be developed after those services are
      available, I mean using those services in the same
      time frame?

              PANELIST:  You can expand your application on
      the same facilities.

              PARTICIPANT:  Or add other applications to
      those facilities?

              PANELIST:  As long as you officially made them
      a part of that project.  In other words --

              PARTICIPANT:  After the -- I mean through
      CalREN.

              PANELIST:  Yes.  In other words, you'd have to
      state the need, the level of need for the project,
      which is what we would fund.

              PARTICIPANT:  Right.

              PANELIST:  And during your project parameters,
      you can fill that pipe up or fill that need.  Now, if
      that need needs to increase, and it was not identified
      in the beginning, there is nothing we can do about
      that.

              PARTICIPANT:  Yeah.

              PANELIST:  But if you have identified a growth
      point for your project, then we could set up funding
      for that ahead of time.  So that's really what you are
      looking at.  It's got to be identified.

              PARTICIPANT:  It's got to be specified in the
      initial proposal.

              PANELIST:  Yes.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Thanks.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hi.  My name is Jeff Vouser from
      the New Haven Unified School District.
              Is it correct to understand that these
      services provided to the grant are intraLATA and not
      interLATA.

              PANELIST:  Yes.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  And then is there a
      guideline as far as the scope of what the grants will
      entail?  You know, clearly I'd love to have switch
      megabit service to all of my schools, but that may be
      too much to ask for in reality.  Is there a parameter
      that's involved within that?

              PANELIST:  That's a difficult one.

              PANELIST:  We've given some examples in the
      RFP.  There will be projects of different scale.  We
      encourage large projects with multiple participants,
      but yet, we also, for example, under our Community,
      Government & Commercial Services RFP we discourage
      production networks, you know, just for the sake of
      adding on.  We don't want that.  There has to be some
      value demonstrated by bringing in multiple,
      additional sites.  And it needs to make sense within
      your project.  But there is no limit per se on how
      many, schools or sites you can bring in.

              PARTICIPANT:  And then, lastly, what's the
      expectation as far as at the end of the 24 months?
      You know, clearly our budgets are fairly limited.
      What is the intent of when that time limit expires?

              PANELIST:  Right.  That's an important thing
      to keep in consideration in planning these and
      responding to the the RFP is that at the end of
      CalREN, you will be responsible for those services,
      and based upon the available, I mean, for those
      services that have been tariffed, you will be able to
      budget what that will be, so you will be able to make
      those decisions to your administration or present that
      as part of the overall decision to apply.

              PARTICIPANT:  And then we give estimations as
      far as items that may not be tariffed at this moment,
      or they all will be tariffed at the time that these
      are submitted?

              PANELIST:  Yes they will.

              PANELIST:  You will have prices to be able to
      budget with.  Also, you won't be responsible for the
      installation charges.  Once those are, you've been
      installed with the services through CalREN, you will
      not be responsible for those.  [In response to these types of
         questions, we have included pricing data in Appendix D.]

              PARTICIPANT:  Hi.  My name is Barry Jacobs.  I
      am working with San Francisco State on their
      multimedia program.

              We are developing a project that involves a
      competitive access provider in intraLATA and also
      other unified school districts.  Would this program
      allow us to interface with Pac Bell switching systems
      and services and hand it off to the competitive access
      provider as part of the infrastructure we are
      creating?

              PANELIST:  Typically, what would have to
      happen is once you've designed what that network is
         going to look like and you know that there is an IEC
         involved at certain points --

              PARTICIPANT:  It is not an IEC, it is a CAP.

              PANELIST:  It's a CAP.

              PANELIST:  You'd actually --

              PARTICIPANT:  I mean they do co-locate at your
      switches so we can hand off that way.

              PANELIST:  There would have to actually be a
      meeting between them and our technical team to find
      out what we could or couldn't do.

              PARTICIPANT:  I mean, they wouldn't be treated
      as if they were like an IEC that was going to take
      some traffic from point A to point B that you weren't
      servicing but you were able to hand off to them?

              PANELIST:  We'd have to review it.

              PARTICIPANT:  The other question is at what
      speeds are the ATM going to be provided, OC3, or are
      you going to bring it down to a DS3?

              PANELIST:  OC3c initially; DS3 will be coming
      later next year in '94.

              PARTICIPANT:  So you can switch to DS3?

              PANELIST:  I'm sorry.  Right now our initial
      offering is at OC3c.

              PARTICIPANT:  Are we talking 155 megabit?

              PANELIST:  Right.

              PARTICIPANT:  Are you going to switch it?

              PANELIST:  Um-hm.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Thanks.

              PARTICIPANT:  My name is Diana Nichols.  I'm
      the associate head of the Harker School which is a
      private school in the San Jose area.  We have about
      700 students.

              We're working with elementary school children,
      and elementary school children like pictures.  They
      particularly like moving pictures.  From what I
      understood of what you said, ISDN lines will not
      permit us to be able to transmit that kind of thing.
      What would be the best possible situation for that
      source of transmittal?

              PANELIST:  ISDN is capable of supporting
      video.  112 kilobit video has some delay, so when I
      speak and then when I see you respond back to me,
      there will be a little bit of a delay.  It is not a
      hazing of my talking.  You see me talk, and it is all,
      you know, okay, but I can tell that it takes a while
      for it to get to you, because it is like you pause
      before you answer me, and also when you move your hand
      or whatever.  The picture only changes what changes,
      so when you move your hand, there will be a little bit
      of gray hazing behind you at 112 kilobits.

              And there are a lot of vendors today that are
      working on video cards that go either in an IBM
      compatible computer or in a Macintosh so that you are
      actually putting a little tiny camera right on top of
      your PC, and it will give you the ability to have a
      little window, and you can actually see each other,
      and it's called desktop conferencing, and you can do
      file sharing and screen transfers and all those kinds
      of things.  Some of them even have white boards, so
      you can actually write instead of type, and you will
      be able to see that, and your screen on your Macintosh
      or your PC is divided, and you will have a little tiny
      picture up there of each other, so it is capable of
      supporting it, but it is not totally full motion.  If
      you put three ISDN lines up and you are doing
      switched, what's called 384, then it is pretty much
      like you and I seeing each other right now, but it
      takes that kind of bandwidth to get rid of the
      hazing, get rid of the delay, and that, of course,
      doesn't run right now through a Macintosh on your
      desk.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  The proposal mentions phased
      implementation, and I'm wondering what that means
      exactly and whether we can -- is it permissible to
      start a project in September, and if that's the case,
      can we go 18 months through the end of 1995?

              PANELIST:  Generally, most implementations, no
      matter what, are going to be phased.  If you say
      you've got three sites involved, a pair of sites will
      probably come up.  So regardless of what you submit,
      it's going to be phased.  We consider your clock
      ticking for the 18 to 24 months.  It starts at the
      first installation.

              PARTICIPANT:  And can it go through the end of
      1995?

              PANELIST:  We expect projects to go into '96,
      yes, because some of them won't even be starting until
      the summertime or fall.  So we are looking at about
      '96 before the end of all projects.  But the clock
      does start ticking upon installation of the first leg.

              PARTICIPANT:  And the other question I have is
      in K-12 education, obviously there isn't the kind of
      access to the technology that allows you to do full
      motion video types of applications.  Is that going to
      be considered in terms of the level of the product
      that we'd be delivering through the service?  Are you
      looking at higher-end applications as opposed to
      lower-end textual based kinds of activities?

              PANELIST:  We will take into account the fact
      that K through 12 have more limited resources and
      technological availability when we review the
      proposals.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  If you already have some donated
      equipment and the lines are already installed in the
      locations you are working with, would you consider
      reimbursing the cost of the line installation?

              PANELIST:  A good try.

              PARTICIPANT:  It doesn't go that way, huh?

              PANELIST:  It is a trust fund organization.
      There are specific ways we can write checks.  It's --
      the answer is no.

              PANELIST:  Well, we are close to the end of
      our time -- if there are no more questions.  Please
      feel free to approach any of us if you have individual
      questions, and thank you very much for your
      participation.  We look forward to your proposals.

                           ---o0o---

                            Appendix B
                            Section 3

Los Angeles Health Care and Community, Government &
Commericial Services RFP Briefing Session
Question & Answer Transcript
On the morning of December 8, 1993, CalREN conducted a
Briefing Session in Los Angeles for those interested in
responding to the Health Care and/or Community,
Government & Commericial Services RFPs.    Minor
editorial changes have been made to some questions and
answers to provide additional clarity.  Corrected
answers and important notes are shown in brackets.
              (Note:  All participants' names are spelled
      phonetically.)

                         ---o0o---

              PARTICIPANT:  I am trying to figure out how to
      charge for the services I currently do.  In what I've
      developed I see a lot of potential, but there are some
      real missing gaps in how I could use it with this
      technology.  I am really kind of groping, although you
      guys know your acronyms and that type of thing, how
      would I charge my customer through your service?  And
      although I see a use, I am just really in a fog, and I
      think I need more than this kind of me telling you all
      that I'd like to see happen.  I think there should be
      a consulting effort on your part to take some of these
      things and pull them forward a little bit further.
      I'd like to see that happen.  If that's possible, I'd
      like to know that.

              PANELIST:  Are you speaking of charging during
      the trial, or are you saying posttrial, the trial is
      over with and ready to go commercial.

              PARTICIPANT:  Well, that, too, but I didn't
      see a dollar number.  In other words, if I am allowed
      to dream, how do I put a price on what I'd like to do,
      and is it a deep pocket I'm talking to, and you say a
      request for proposal, how much money is involved, and
      what kind of proposal?  Is there a cap on the money,
      or is there any money at all, or do I have to -- what
      do I have to provide dollar --

              PANELIST:  Pertaining to the services?

              PARTICIPANT:  Sure.  I'm a provider of
      information, financial information, with some unique
      services that could be developed out of that, and does
      CalREN have a budget or a limit?  In other words, if I
      see that we could use three or four million dollars to
      do this, if that's not part of what you guys are
      doing, do I go to venture capital and then bring it
      back here?  I'm not sure.

              PANELIST:  To describe that, CalREN funding
      itself is only for the transport service, period.
      That's number one.  In terms of in the future what you
      would resell for or how you would integrate your cost
      for that service with your product, most of the
      services there are tariffed with published prices, and
      the ones that are in tariff negotiation now, those
      prices are in flux because we are in tariff
      negotiation.  But the long and the short of it is that
      there is a cost for that service once you decide to
      market your product which you'll have to integrate
      into what you are charging for your product, and those
      prices are published.  But in terms of the CalREN
      program and the funding of the CalREN program, there
      is a budget, and that budget is used totally towards
      paying for only the services, the cost of the
      services.

              PARTICIPANT:  Maybe I can make it a little bit
      clearer.  In other words, if we've developed a
      multimedia application and we are publishers, put it
      that way, we have information that we'd like to put on
      this kind of and use this kind of technology.

              PANELIST:  Right.

              PARTICIPANT:  Now, we are coming from a point
      of selling it directly to the public anyway.  We see
      that, that's clear.  What is not clear is how we are
      going to charge over the airways for it because we
      lose control.  I don't see the control mechanism for
      us making any money out of it.  I can see where you're
      going to make money.  I don't see how I'm going to
      make money if I do all the work and you provide the
      network.

              PANELIST:  Okay.  If you are selling a
      service, you are going to have to charge for that
      service and be paid for it directly.

              PARTICIPANT:  Right, but when you say the word
      tariff, it throws me into a tizzy.  I am not in the
      tariff business.  I don't have anything to do with
      tariffs.

              PANELIST:  What I mean by tariff, very
      quickly, is for us to sell service in this state, it
      has to be tariffed.  We've got an agreement that we
      can sell X product at X price, so most of those
      products that you see are tariffed, they have a price,
      and you can calculate the cost on that, the price
      exists.  Things that are not tariffed are in
      negotiation; therefore, the price, the final price on
      those things will not be arrived at until that tariff
      process is over with.  So essentially what I am saying
      is there is a cost to these services, and when you --
      beyond the trial, when you decide you want to continue
      your application and you want to sell that
      application, you will have to integrate the expense of
      what these services cost and whatever you are
      reselling your service for, because you will then be
      paying for these services, so there is, in fact,
      pricing for those services.  And as far as where you
      make money, again, it is about what you are charging
      for the use of your application.  [In response to the pricing
    inquiries, we have included additional information in Appendix
         D.]

              PANELIST:  If I can give you an example:
      If you are in business today as an information
      provider and you provide 800 number access to your
      business, you know what that 800 number costs you to
      provide, and you've gotten that 800 number price from
      your provider, Pacific Bell or a carrier, and I assume
      that, therefore, when you price your service, you
      price in the cost of what that 800 service is going to
      cost you.  It is exactly the same with any of these
      products.  You are going to price in and can get from
      your Pacific Bell account team, for example, a price
      for the ISDN service, a price for Frame Relay, a price
      for SMDS, and price those components into, if you are
      talking CalREN, price those components into the price
      of the project you are putting together for CalREN.

              One of the questions that other people have
      asked us is as we implement a CalREN project, in two
      years that project is going to be over.  I'm going to
      need to tell my management what they are going to pay
      for these services two years afterwards.  Okay?  And
      what we've said this morning is the installation cost
      for what you've done for CalREN will have already been
      covered by CalREN.  You will not have to pay an
      installation charge now for what's in place, but as
      you expand that project to the remaining components of
      your enterprise, then you would pay the installation
      charge on those, which would be a part of the tariff,
      and then you would also pay for the tariff price for
      the additional products.  Now there is a mechanism
      within Pacific Bell to contract for those services
      over a period of time.  You know, we provide contracts
      for one-year, three-year, five-year, seven-year period
      of time.  And again, your Pacific Bell account team
      can provide you with information on what that looks
      like, and then you can include that as part of CalREN
      and as part of your normal business process.

              PANELIST:  One other thing I should touch on
      just on the two services I spoke to and on a purely
      commercial basis looking at this external to CalREN,
      there is a client for SMDS now that basically embeds
      SMDS as a service access option to their network, and
      the customer can choose that, and because they don't
      have to buy dedicated lines there is a price that they
      associate with it.  Because these are nonusage
      sensitive services, they just give a flat monthly
      price.  There is the capability just for you to
      consider based on what you feel you know the worth,
      you know, how you want to price your service.  We can
      provide traffic measurement on an end-of-month basis
      that does detail on the per location or per address,
      how much data was sent back and forth, if that's of
      any help in, you know, pricing it out on a commercial
      basis.  You'll know who used how much of your service,
      how much data was sent.

              PARTICIPANT:  Since it isn't developed yet,
      since it isn't in the marketplace, the end user
      doesn't even know about that this service is going to
      be available to them other than through your lines.
      The marketing aspects of that, how that money is going
      to flow back from that is completely missing to me.  I
      don't -- I don't see how I can make money with it.  I
      don't see how I can make money with it.

              PARTICIPANT:  That's what I was going to address,
      because what I hear you saying is that you are willing
      to front the pilot effort, give us enough information
      to determine our cost over that two-year period, and
      then work that cost into our service cost to our
      customer.  So it's like developing something like
      Prodigy.  We are going to know how much the volume is,
      what the cost for the lines are, whether we need ISDN
      and/or SMDS, and then come up with a cost per month
      for selling a monthly service to a customer, so we can
      determine over that two-year period if we want to
      charge them $20 a month, if we want to charge them $40
      a month, if we want to give them break level options.
      If you want your data reports printed out on your
      printer, we can go ISDN, and we will charge you $20 a
      month.  If you want SMDS on your screen, we can charge
      you 30 a month, and you can have it right now.  Is
      that what you are saying?  So in two years we roll up
      those costs, figure out what we want to charge our
      customers to come out with a profit, and you've given
      us the information we need over the two-year period to
      incorporate what it's going to cost us to lease your
      lines.

              PANELIST:  I don't want to answer for Ron,
      but, yeah, in a commercial operation you would
      certainly have all the cost basis of what it cost to
      provide, whether it is ISDN or one of the services
      that Ella and I have talked about, and then, certainly
      then it's a business decision or business case within
      your organization how much and is it commercially
      viable.

              PARTICIPANT:  So even without this proposal,
      if we had a business venture we were interested in
      pursuing, we would still need to buy telephone
      services to pilot this thing, try and figure out the
      cost on our own, but you are giving us the capability
      to find out those costs directly from you --

              PANELIST:  Right.

              PARTICIPANT: -- by the traffic, the volume,
      the statistics that you can collect.

              PANELIST:  Right.

              PANELIST:  If we go back to the purpose of
      CalREN, the purpose of CalREN is to stimulate the
      growth and development of applications that are not
      present today by using technologies that are not
      necessarily ubiquitous or in great use today.  It is
      new technologies.  So at the end of two years, the
      goal would be that you, as well as Pacific Bell, know
      more about the services that we provide and the
      applications that you develop.  So by nature --

              PARTICIPANT:  So if I wanted to start a
      service selling abstract art, I could, with SMDS, put
      a piece of art out there, I could voice over it and
      explain what the name of it is, what the artist had in
      mind, et cetera, and try and find out who would be
      interested in such a service.
              PANELIST:  Right.  Now, and again, the CalREN
      is to fund demonstration projects.  For example, if
      you were -- again, we talk a lot about health care.
      If you were part of a health care type organization
      that has 20 locations around the state, and you are
      looking for CalREN to fund 4,000 ISDN lines to develop
      an application, CalREN is not going to fund 4,000
      lines to develop the application.  We are going to
      develop a small subset of that to fund the development
      of the application and would, hopefully at the end of
      a year or two-year period of time, that application
      would prove to be successful, and you would then want
      to then migrate that to a 4- or 5,000 line
      application.

              PARTICIPANT:  My question is on commercial
      property, intellectual property and copyrights.  Let's
      say at the end of the project, funded project, how do
      we go about protecting either the copyrights or the
      intellectual property that was invested in the project
      if the publication of the report is public at the end,
      and could you please elaborate on that.

              PANELIST:  In terms of things that you own,
      let's say you are contributing the application to the
      software, that is privately yours.  So that is not
      something that will be randomly dispersed.

              PARTICIPANT:  And CalREN will have no
      ownership?

              PANELIST:  Will have no rights to that,
      exactly.  But the idea of the application, long term,
      how it is put together and how it functions, any
      participant after the trial can choose to:  Well, I
      like that application.  I am going to continue to do
      that by utilizing your software and the piece parts
      and continue that business.  Okay?  So what is public
      is A, the application, what it does, how it benefits,
      okay, and how it's done.  What is private is I've
      given you a box to do it.  I still own that box, or
      I've given you the software, I still own that
      software.  But the wherefores of how it is done and
      what it is, that's public, and that's what we will
      release in the report.

              PANELIST:  As a matter of fact, if you look at
      the RFP, the RFP says:  Please do not provide us with
      your proprietary information.  We do not want to see
      your proprietary information.

              PARTICIPANT:  I have two questions, and I
      think I know the answer to one now, but test and see
      whether I do, and then the second question remains.
      It has puzzled me to know what numbers to put into the
      proposal as to the cost that it is proposed for CalREN
      to bear.  And you are telling me, I think, that we
      work with our account team locally to figure out what
      those costs actually are, so that you will provide a
      coaching service as to how much the value that CalREN
      is going to substitute for us writing a check to buy a
      line or to buy service.

              PANELIST:  Exactly.

              PARTICIPANT:  All right.

              PANELIST:  That's very straightforward.
      Again, these technologies that we are offering, they
      all, except for at this moment Frame Relay and ATM,
      have a price associated with them right now.  So you
      can go to an account rep today, and say:  How much is
      ISDN for the next six months?  That's there.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  I do understand that.
      The second is, I don't understand what price to
      propose given that the service, I think in all cases
      in this room, will be a new service and will be
      subject potentially to quite robust growth curves.  To
      the extent those prices are sensitive to usage rate,
      how does CalREN intend to handle that?  Are you going
      to give us an amount up to and that's the end of it,
      or is there certain elasticity in the kinds of growth
      we can anticipate?

              PANELIST:  Your limitations are not in time,
      they are in money.  I mean, excuse me, they are in
      time; they are not in money.  So it doesn't matter
      what the budget is.  If we accept your ten location
      project for 24 months, we will fund it for 24 months.

              PARTICIPANT:  Independent of --

              PANELIST:  Independent of what the money is.
      Obviously, there is a point where we run out of money,
      and then we fund no more projects.  But again, within --
      the accepted projects will be fully funded for what
      they need to do over that time period regardless of
      what the pricing is.

              PANELIST:  What you will receive from us, for
      example, will be a bill that says, you know, that says
      your organization care of CalREN.  So you won't
      necessarily even see that bill except for information.
      We would pay that bill, including all of the usage
      charges on it.

              PARTICIPANT:  My question is:  I am still not
      clear as far as the content to respond to the RFP as
      far as the cost factor.  Are you saying that you are
      only going to fund the services that's provided that
      we have identified in the proposal and not project
      management and everything else and all of that?

              PANELIST:  Exactly.

              PARTICIPANT:  It has not come out that clear,
      at least not to me, I don't know about everyone else.
      You are saying that that collaboration, that
      collaborative process should bring in, if you will,
      the project manager and all of the other participants
      and their salaries and whatever else that it is all
      encompassing should be beared by the proposer.

              PANELIST:  Yes, exactly, because it your
      project, most definitely.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  And then the other
      question is as far as the line and the services, who
      is responsible for the maintenance, and if the line
      went down during this process, would that be --

              PANELIST:  Pacific Bell.

              PANELIST:  Yeah, that would be exactly the
      same as if you were paying it.  You would call the
      repair number, and they'd come out and fix it.  As Hal
      mentioned, you will get a reference bill that says
      here's how much it costs, but CalREN is paying it, so
      in that sense it is just like any other service.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hal, you had mentioned that
      there was planning for no less than 20 health care
      projects to be funded.
              PANELIST:  Yes.

              PARTICIPANT:  Could you elaborate also on the
      number of education and community, government and
      commercial projects that would be funded, and is that
      split between north and south?

              PANELIST:  The number is 20, 15 and 15.  So it
      would be 15 for each of the other two.  We have not
      divided that north and south.  We have had press
      releases that say that CalREN has in excess of
      $25 million to fund projects.  That's a significant
      sum of money.  We do not have a limit on any
      particular RFP.  Again, we are looking for the best
      proposals.  I think to give you kind of a ballpark,
      the average ISDN line, and I would ask Ella to keep me
      honest here, I think an ISDN line today is $27.

              PANELIST:  Yeah, $27 a month.

              PANELIST:  Okay.  Divide by 25 million, that's
      a lot of lines and a lot of service.  Now, obviously,
      other technologies are more expensive, with ATM being
      the top as far as expensive.  But we hope to fund the
      significant portion of projects above the minimum of
      20, 15 and 15.

              PARTICIPANT:  A second question:  Keith, could
      you also elaborate on the PUC approval for Frame
      Relay, whether that's pending.  I know it's supposed
      to be like any day, any week --

              PANELIST:  No, actually I am hoping to hear
      today from the project manager that -- I got a voice
      message from him last night when I inquired on status,
      and apparently there were some documents lost in the
      PUC mailroom that were literally awaiting signature.
      They had asked for some additional information after
      they gave preliminary approval on Friday.  We got that
      to them on Monday.  And they were matching that up and
      getting signatures, so we are fully anticipating that
      today we will have both approval and what we call
      sales effective.  And the network is in, or the
      equipment is in available to start processing orders
      at this time. [The Frame Relay tariff has been approved.]

              PARTICIPANT:  This may be an outside question,
      but is GTE going to combat or come up with a
      complementary or competitive service?

              PANELIST:  Service to CalREN or to Frame
      Relay?

              PARTICIPANT:  To Frame Relay.

              PANELIST:  Yes, they are in the process of
      filing their tariffs.  They are a few months behind
      us.  However, I would encourage if you have General
      Tel locations, which you obviously do, to contact your
      GTE account team, because they are willing to do
      things on a special case basis.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thanks.

              PARTICIPANT:  My name is Jackie Harris.  I am
      with the Gray Panthers of Long Beach, a little bit of
      publicity.

              One of the things we are beginning to do now
      is --

              PANELIST:  Could you speak up into the
      microphone?

              PARTICIPANT:  One of the things we are doing
      is basically we are dealing with lots of shut-ins, and
      one of the things I come up against all the time is:
      I wish I could see you.  Right?

              PANELIST:  Right.

              PARTICIPANT:  We can't get to all these people
      now.  With your program, and this is going to be
      statewide, nationwide, hopefully -- the Gray Panthers
      have got 40,000 members, and we are all over the
      nation.  I don't know anything about the wiring, I
      mean, I am not getting into that, but with this
      program, will we be able to -- if I am downtown LA
      with whatever phone I have, will I be able to use that
      phone to see someone on video?  Is this what you are
      saying?

              PANELIST:  What we are saying is there are
      technologies --

              PARTICIPANT:  Just like if I am phoning
      someone, I will get a picture?

              PANELIST:  Not necessarily with a standard
      telephone.  There are some video phones available
      today, and you don't need a lot of band width to see
      someone, but the quality --

              PARTICIPANT:  We want nationwide
      communication, good nationwide communication that is
      cheap.  Our bill now is running 800 a month, and we
      are only dealing with about four people.  There is no
      way we can do it just as a pilot project, and I think
      the lady said you are going to be in a situation
      anywhere in the world where you can plug in and set up
      your equipment to reach a certain party.  That's what
      I'm trying to find out.  If I'm in a hotel building,
      is there going to be a place I can plug in to?

              PANELIST:  The technology exists today --

              PARTICIPANT:  That's what I am trying to find
      out.

              PANELIST: -- to allow you to do that, but I
      think it was one of the gentlemen said the problem
      with these particular technologies is that the general
      public doesn't know that the technology exists and
      that the applications and the CPE that supports the
      technology have not been developed so that you would
      know that it's out there or that it is at a price that
      the average person could afford to purchase.  So what
      we are hoping to do through CalREN is A, to get more
      applications that run on the technology, and B, wider
      knowledge that it's out there, and also as you get
      more knowledge and more usage, then the cost of the
      equipment that supports the technology will come down,
      and the average person can afford it.  So what you are
      talking about doing is technically possible today.
      What we would like is a CalREN application to do that
      to show that it is there, and then you'll get the
      publicity and things like that.

              PARTICIPANT:  So what I want is available.

              PANELIST:  It is technically possible.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.
              PANELIST:  What we are working on today is a
      number of proposals.  There are people that have come
      to CalREN to look at projects or funding.  For
      example, there is an organization called Senior Net
      that is working on providing technology for senior
      citizens and a number of other groups like that that
      are working on technologies to monitor for medical
      reasons, to monitor disabled for education, things of
      that nature, and that technology is available today.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  I had two questions.  One was
      with regard to the demarcation point and availability
      of 5ESS and DMS-100 equipment.  I think you had
      alluded to the idea that the people that manufacture
      that equipment may be available to provide equipment
      or that you would fund it.  Can you elaborate on that?

              And then the other question I had was
      regarding -- you have the SDS-56 up to the street.
      Getting it to the street into the home is obviously a
      big question, and can you elaborate on what's being
      done to quicken the process of getting that connection
      between the street and the home?

              PANELIST:  Okay.  I'll deal with the question
      of the vendors.  We have a willing participants' list,
      which for the most part are hardware and software
      companies that handle the equipment necessary to plug
      in either to DMS switching or 5ESS.  So what happens
      is when you present to us your RFP, if you are
      lacking, for an example, it takes a TA to connect to
      one of those switches, you can state that, that you
      are in need of TA, how many, et cetera, we can then
      contact one of the vendors who is a willing
      participant and then connect you two.

              PARTICIPANT:  And we can do that prior to the
      RFP submission as well?

              PANELIST:  Yes.  If you know the needs, you
      can call us and let us know what those needs are, and
      and we could go ahead and call some of the vendors and
      see what their position is on that.

              PARTICIPANT:  And the second question?
              PANELIST:  The second question about --

              PANELIST:  SDS-56 specifically?

              PARTICIPANT:  That's the one that's really
      installed already, so that's I assume of the most
      interest with regard to access, to get from the street
      to the home.  Are you seeing that as a cost to be
      borne by the homeowner, the business or --

              PANELIST:  If you have a million connections
      out there, a potential million people that can get
      SDS-56, fine, it's in the street.  How do you go from
      the street to the home?  This is a valid question.

              PANELIST:  I think in the regulatory process,
      you know, Pacific Bell, as well as the other RBOCs,
      our demarcation point has been moved out, you know, to
      the building entrance, and it is the customer's
      responsibility to provide from our demarcation point
      to the building.

              PANELIST:  I have never had a person have a
      problem with getting it from the street to their
      house.  We demarc on the box that's on your house.
      Now, in a few locations there aren't any available
      pairs that exist anymore, so then you run into a
      trenching issue, and Pacific Bell doesn't provide
      trenching and neither does anyone else, and we have
      noted that that is going to be a huge problem for any
      kind of a telecommuting application.  So we have taken
      that on, and we are trying to figure out what we are
      going to do about that right now, because what's
      happened is these products do use the spare cable
      that's already in the dirt, but over time the spare
      cable that's in the dirt has been used up because
      pairs have gone bad, and it really is our
      responsibility to provide those spare cables, so we
      are working on that right now.  If you have any
      location that's a particular problem, you can come and
      yell at me during the lunchtime and we will try and
      get it worked on right away because we are dealing
      with that.

              PARTICIPANT:  I guess the question I had was
      perhaps more further out and probably not the
      responsibility of CalREN at all.  But it was really
      more of a general question, yes, you've brought it to
      the street, the 56K brought capability, but is there a
      low-cost option for people to utilize that?  I am not
      talking about the business component.  I am talking
      about the consumer component, because the business
      component, they can pay for it, but with regard to the
      consumer component, which was mentioned in some of the
      promotional aspects of this project was to talk about
      bringing it to Californians.  And unless there is a
      way to bring it to the street affordably into the home
      with some sort of equipment, and I am not familiar
      with that equipment, maybe that's just my ignorance.
      Maybe you can elaborate on that on how we are going to
      actually reach the consumer.  If the equipment is
      thousands of dollars, the consumer isn't going to use
      it, obviously.

              PANELIST:  Today to put an ISDN line in your
      home costs $70 to install, and it is $27.70 a month,
      and that gives you 2B + D, that's 1 X.25 packet address,
      whether you want it or not, and 2B channels that you
      can use for either circuit switched voice or circuit
      switched data.  If you have an already existing extra
      pair of wires that you would have used for teenage
      line or something like that, it rides on that line,
      and we are putting it in people's homes all the time
      today.

              PARTICIPANT:  So we are just talking about
      people with PCs with X.25 cards in them?

              PANELIST:  Yes.

              PANELIST:  The CPE that you mention, as demand
      grows and with the availability on the residential
      side, that's going to drive the cost down.  Within
      CalREN there's the willing participants, but on the
      commercial side, the more demand there is, the cheaper
      it gets.

              PARTICIPANT:  Right.

              PANELIST:  If you have an already existing PC
      that you are running with a modem, we just change that
      line out for you.  I mean, that's all there is to it.
      It costs $70 to change the line and $27.70 a month.
      That is the line charges.  What you need to worry
      about in your application is who are you going to get
      to be your terminal adapter partner that's going to
      replace your modem with an ISDN terminal adapter.

              PARTICIPANT:  Right, exactly.  Is that the
      price of that equipment down, also?

              PANELIST:  It runs anywhere from $500 to about
      $2500 depending on how many bells and whistles you
      want.

              PANELIST:  Some of your favorite PC modem
      vendors also make ISDN terminal adapters that fit in.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hi.  My question carries over on
      the gentleman's question.  SMDS and Frame Relay, the
      equipment required for that, do you have a ballpark
      figure what it would be at two sites?

              PANELIST:  I can give you a very, very much a
      large ballpark.  A router to support SMDS, and if you
      are familiar with routers, at the base line it would
      be a 1 land 1 win router.  Typically it is software
      driven.  There are a number of vendors, $3500 to
      $4,000 per router, and that is ballpark in looking for
      towards list.  And that would be for either frame
      relay or SMDS.  There are certain software
      differences, but basically it is the same box with
      different software configuration.  On the data service
      unit, which is the digital modem, if you will, for
      Frame Relay, depending on the speed, it would be the
      same type of data service unit that you would have on
      a dedicated digital line, so for a 56K connection, for
      instance, I've heard down to the 450 to $500 range.
      For T1, those can be, I've heard, the street prices
      I've seen for a kind of a barebones T1 DSU is about
      a thousand, and that's for Frame Relay.  For SMDS at
      T1 the DSU for that costs a bit more because they
      have to do some more functionality.  They have to, as
      someone once said, do the slice and dice to put your
      data into those cell formats I mentioned.  And list
      price on those, or street price on those is about $32-,
      $3300.  There is a new vendor that's come out, which I
      understand they are list -- understand they are
      listing at about $3,000, which would mean a street
      price of something under three.

              PARTICIPANT:  So we are looking at a budget of
      about under or over $10,000?

              PANELIST:  That would be for hardware, yes.

              PARTICIPANT:  Yeah, for hardware.

              PANELIST:  Right.

              PARTICIPANT:  And CalREN would pick up the
      service charges for 18 months?

              PANELIST:  Would pick up the installation and
      service charges, right.

              PANELIST:  For the lines.

              PANELIST:  For service but not for that
      hardware --

              PARTICIPANT:  Yeah, right, that's what I
      understand.

              PANELIST:  -- because we have to write the
      grant for the hardware.

              PANELIST:  Right.

              PARTICIPANT:  Hi.  My question has to do with
      the availability of service under the auspices of
      CalREN.  Now I understand that there are some location
      restrictions as they apply to area codes.  My location
      happens to be in the General Telephone service area.
      Will I have access to CalREN services, and if not --
      well, if so, is there a process that I have to go
      through in order to get those since I am in the GTE
      service area?

              PANELIST:  What's happening there is Pacific
      Bell, CalREN and GTE have talked with how possibly to
      tie things in.  We've only talked about it.  And the
      key here is A, we've got to know from you exactly what
      that location is and what you want to do.  And at that
      point you would have to call GTE to say:  This is kind
      of what we want to do, and you would bring us
      together, Pac Bell in with GTE and decide A, if that
      could be done and how, and then we have issues -- we
      have to see whether we have some regulatory things we
      have to go through which is possible.  So if GTE
      territory is involved, you are probably looking at
      pushing your process out, because we have to see what
      is necessary to be done before we are allowed to do
      something like that.  But we have been in touch with
      GTE.

              PARTICIPANT:  So basically I have to include
      those requirements in my RFP?

              PANELIST:  Yes, you have to let us know
      locations, and so on, and what exactly you want to
      connect at what speed, and then by inviting GTE in, we
      can't invite them in, you invite GTE in.

              PARTICIPANT:  Right.

              PANELIST:  We come in and sit at the table and
      see what restrictions we have or what things we can
      and can't do.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Thank you very much.

              PARTICIPANT:  How do you do?  My name is Don
      Davis, and I would like to thank you for this meeting.
      It is very informative.  I am a commercial publisher
      of government regulations, federal regulations on
      computer CD, stand-alone CD.  My competitors are
      well-known, like WestLaw, Lexus, Dialogue.  My
      question to you:  I would like to make the transition
      to this service.  Is my price subject to tariff
      review?  Is it subject -- do I have to specify a
      minimum or maximum?  Is it completely up to the
      commercial vendor to set a price for whatever product
      they have?

              PANELIST:  Right.

              PARTICIPANT:  That's one issue.

              PANELIST:  That's your responsibility, yes.

              PARTICIPANT:  And if there is any restriction,
      how much advance notice would a commercial publisher
      be required by law or by statute to provide their
      customer base?  In other words, is --

              PANELIST:  Yeah, what we provide is the
      transport for you to transport your service.  It is
      transparent to us what that service is or what those
      prices are, so that is totally your responsibility.

              PARTICIPANT:  They're not subject to a yearly
      review or contract or anything like that?

              PANELIST:  No, nothing like that.

              PANELIST:  Only the services that we provide,
      the transport, as Hal said, is our control.

              PANELIST:  Because we have the tariffs.

              PARTICIPANT:  My name is Tony Clark, and I
      work for a medical communications system.  We actually
      provide medical information from hospitals to the
      doctors' offices via a PC network, modem, and so
      forth.  I am trying to get an idea of how your
      information, how could we implement what you have
      shown us here today into that type of system?  I am
      kind of -- are you saying replace, for example, the
      phone lines and the modems with ISDN, the system and
      so forth like that?

              PANELIST:  Right.

              PARTICIPANT:  And basically would it provide
      what, a faster rate of transmission to get the
      information to the doctors' offices?  Is that the
      idea?

              PANELIST:  In the case of ISDN, you are
      dealing with a much higher speed than you can get even
      from some of the newer dial-up modems today.  In the
      case of some of the things that I talked about, we are
      talking about many orders of magnitude higher speed
      than dial-up.  And depending on what you do, what your
      organization does, how much band width you need, how
      fast does it need to run, will kind of determine which
      product is more attractive.

              PANELIST:  You can transfer about a mgb a
      minute on a 56 kbps line, so what you need to do is
      look at your file size and how fast you need to have
      it at the other end, how long the person at the other
      end is willing to sit there and wait for his screen to
      fill in in order to see if ISDN is fast enough for you
      or if you need to move up to one of the higher speed
      SMDS or Frame Relay.

              PARTICIPANT:  I see.  So, for example, we
      transmit like radiology images.  Those are big files.
      So we would probably go to a faster rate.

              And what actually is on the ends of those
      lines?

              PANELIST:  Terminal adapters, CSUs, DSUs.

              PARTICIPANT:  That's good.

              PANELIST:  Right.  As Ella said --

              PANELIST:  PC TA cards.

              PANELIST:  It depends on the service.  There
      are terminal adapters.  It could be a card in the PC,
      or it could be a phone that has a data connection on
      in the case of ISDN services.  In the case of the
      things I talked about, you have what is called a data
      service unit which -- just think of it as a modem.
      And a router is if you want to make an analogy, a
      switch for a local area network data traffic report.

              PARTICIPANT:  Great.  Thank you.

              PANELIST:  One other thing I think you should
      be aware of, from the way you have brought this up, if
      you have an existing project that's been running, you
      are paying for lines and service, we are not going to
      simply replace your lines and fund that service.  What
      you need to do with that is have an expansion of
      whatever that project is, show new collaboration, new
      benefit, et cetera, but we will not go in and just
      simply replace an existing functioning process, so you
      need to be aware of that when writing your RFP.

              PANELIST:  Let's see.  I think we should make
      this our last question here.  It is 12:00, and we'll
      be happy to take questions afterwards individually, if
      you'd like to do that, but we have a need to wrap it
      up here so --

              PARTICIPANT:  Just a clarification.  Did I
      hear you correctly, you said a mgb a minute over ISDN
      lines?

              PANELIST:  Yes.

              PARTICIPANT:  And do you think that that --
      you are saying that that's sufficient to do video data
      and voice at the same time?

              PANELIST:  It is sufficient to do a kind of
      video that isn't like you and I being here live at
      this instant.

              PARTICIPANT:  I see.

              PANELIST:  I can see you, I can see whether
      you are paying attention, whether you are getting
      comprehension from what I am saying, but there is like
      some hazing, you know, and if you move really fast,
      you will get a trailing behind it.

              PARTICIPANT:  It would be similar to what an
      AT&T phone --

              PANELIST:  No, that is analog, and it is a
      whole lot better than that.

              PANELIST:  Actually, the video via ISDN
      service, we are 112 kbps, which is extremely viable.
      There are a couple of systems out from vendors,
      Compression Labs has a system, and businesses use it
      quite frequently.  It is, as Ella says, if you start
      doing aerobics, you are going to get smearing and
      whatnot on the line, but the clarity is very high on
      the system.

              PARTICIPANT:  And for data transfer, if the
      gentleman that has 500 megabitss on his CD and
      somebody wants all the contents of that CD, you are
      talking about quite a bit of time.

              PANELIST:  Yes.

              PANELIST:  Yeah, 500 megabitss is a lot.  You
      wouldn't want to use ISDN for 500 megabits.

              PARTICIPANT:  And what would the next higher
      level be?
              PANELIST:  The next higher level would be
      Frame Relay at 128 kilobits, and then from there Frame
      Relay goes to 384 kilobits or a thousand bits and then
      to a full T1 at a million and a half.

              PANELIST:  One of the technologies that I
      discussed, which is not too ubiquitously available,
      which would be perfect for what you are talking about,
      is H11 which is switched 1.536.  Now when you
      are switching 1.536, that is quite a lot of band
      width, and that is wonderful for doing that kind of
      thing.

              PARTICIPANT:  And how would you price that?

              PANELIST:  It's already -- well, it will be
      offered under contract pretty soon.  It is a service
      that we have in technology test right now with the
      California Public Utilities Commission, so it is
      something that's possible.

              PARTICIPANT:  Again, how is it priced
      currently?  I just don't know.  Is it a contract that
      is based on distance?

              PANELIST:  No.

              PARTICIPANT:  Is it flat rate?

              PANELIST:  Well sort of.  You have to -- you
      buy a HICAP, which is a -- or a T1, whatever word
      you are familiar with, and then the service is $1500
      to install and $545 a month, and it is called primary
      rate ISDN.

              PARTICIPANT:  Regardless of distance?

              PANELIST:  You are paying distance on your T1.

              PARTICIPANT:  That's true.  Thanks.

              PANELIST:  Again, I thank you for coming, and
      again, if you have any other questions, we will be
      here for the rest of the day actually.  Thank you very
      much.
                            Appendix B
                            Section 4

Los Angeles Education RFP Briefing Session
Question & Answer Transcript

On the afternoon of December 8, 1993, CalREN conducted a
Briefing Session in Los Angeles for those interested in
responding to the Education RFP.  Minor editorial
changes have been made to some questions and answers to
provide additional clarity.  Corrected answers and
important notes are shown in brackets.

              (Note:  All participants' names are spelled

      phonetically.)



                         ---o0o---



              PARTICIPANT:  Good afternoon.  I am interested

      in whether or not  ATM  is going to be discussed at all
    today.



              PANELIST:  No.  I mean, we can talk about it

      now if you've got a specific question.



              PARTICIPANT:  Yes, it has to do with real time

      transfer of video information --



              PANELIST:  Okay.



              PARTICIPANT:  -- whether you have some

      discussion on that today or not.



              PANELIST:  There was an ATM Briefing Session
    last month.



              PARTICIPANT:  Yes, I know, we missed it.



              PANELIST:  As far as supporting real time

      video?



              PARTICIPANT:  Yes.



              PANELIST:  In Southern California, in this
      service area, we will be implementing an ATM network
      the end of the first quarter of '94.  We are actually
      looking at turning up April 1st or maybe April 2, and
      that will support, provide support for real time video
      and voice traffic.  It will support, I don't know how
      into ATM you are, but it will support adaption layers
      1, 3, 4 and 5, which adaption layer 1 would be video
      and voice real time.  And that's going to be
      available --

              PARTICIPANT:  Fully synchronized?

              PANELIST:  Yes.  And that will be available
      for connection at 45 and 155 mbps.

              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.  Thank you.

              PANELIST:  And that will be available --
      again, that is part of Cal -- there is CalREN ATM
      capability.
              PARTICIPANT:  But if we, if our proposal is
      addressed to the ATM mode, that would be realistic for
      next year?

              PANELIST:  Oh, yes.  There is, however, and
      Randy, do you want to touch on --

              PANELIST:  There is a different time frame on
      that.

              PANELIST:  Yes.  A point of clarification, if
      your proposal does involve ATM, it needs to be
      submitted under the ATM RFP.

              PANELIST:  In September.

              PANELIST:  Even though it may be an
      educational application, but if it involves ATM, it
      needs to go into that RFP.

              PANELIST:  February 15th deadline.  [The deadline for
    ATM proposals in the Greater Los Angeles Area is
    February 15, 1994.]
              PARTICIPANT:  Are there any business partners
      that you would not welcome in your proposal, say,
      groups that might be viewed as competitors to some of
      the things at Pac Bell.  Would you elaborate on that,
      of any notion of business competitors.  And secondly,
      for many of the education or nonprofit groups, would
      you be in a position of deferring much more than the
      services you've outlined?  Would there be any cash
      grants or things attached to that, or have you
      considered that?

              PANELIST:  As to your first question, not --
      Randy?

              PANELIST:  Your first question, I don't think
      there are any business partners we would not cooperate
      with, probably including direct competitors.  I mean,
      the inter-exchange carriers are our competitors; they
      are also our best customers.

              PANELIST:  Regarding your second question, we
      do recognize for schools that there is a need, a great
      need for some of these other project areas.
      Unfortunately, CalREN is going to be limited just to
      the data communication services, and also it is in
      part due to regulatory restrictions that we have.
      That is the way that the fund has been set up, also.

              PARTICIPANT:  Concerning a school, say you
      wrote a proposal that involved four or five different
      schools and those schools each needed their own router
      and CSU/DSU, and say one or two of those schools, they
      couldn't afford to buy one, but your proposal depends
      upon them having one, the first speaker mentioned
      something about putting us in touch with vendors.
      Would that need to be done before submitting the
      proposal, getting in touch with vendors to see whether
      they would purchase equipment for (inaudible)?

              PANELIST:  Yes.  What we would like you to do
      is, like you said, like in your example, five schools
      and two of them need equipment, if you could contact
      us early on, we could try to broker that with the
      willing participants and you would have a complete
      proposal when you submitted it.  That's what we'd like
      to do.  If your idea is good, and it has merit, and
      you want to submit it contingent upon that support,
      don't let that hold you back, because we can forward
      the proposals with contingency items in it.  If we had
      our druthers, we'd rather help you broker that up
      front.

              PANELIST:  Obviously the proposals that have
      all the pieces will be stronger in the consideration,
      but it is something that we can work with you on.

              PARTICIPANT:  Are you going to have any of the
      technologies that are faster than ISDN into the home?

              PANELIST:  The Frame Relay product can be
      delivered to home.

              PANELIST:  Yeah, realistically, almost
      anything can be brought into your house, but
      realistically or technically anything can be brought
      into your home, but realistically Frame Relay probably
      is going to be the highest speed service that would be
      available into the house.  And actually that would be
      at the 56 kilobit level.  The issue is strictly one of
      the way we provision facilities in a residential area
      versus how we provision -- and when I say
      "facilities," that's "telco-ese" for wire and cable in
      the street -- versus how it is done in a business
      area.  If -- and I can't speak for the CalREN
      evaluation committee -- I would not rule out,
      apparently, you know, if your project was very
      interesting, or, you know, passed muster, that we
      wouldn't be able to do T1 into the home.  We have done
      that in the past for commercial customers.  But
      certainly Frame Relay, yes; certainly ISDN, yes.

              PANELIST:  And ISDN in and of its nature is
      faster than 56 kilobits.

              PANELIST:  And it's twice as fast as 56
      kilobits, so --

              PANELIST:  And many vendors make inverse
      multiplexers that you can put many basic grade ISDN
      lines on, so that's also another option.

              PANELIST:  Any other questions?

              PARTICIPANT:  Hi.  I'm with the Los Angeles
      Community College District.

              We have several proposals that we are
      considering.  One of them involves one of our campuses
      in Sylmar, Mission College, and that's in GTE
      territory.  Do you see any compatibility issues or
      problems other than ATM that might be an issue.  And
      also this grant, will the grant cover this local link
      between Pac Bell and GTE?

              PANELIST:  That's a good question.  We are
      currently in negotiations with GTE.  They like the
      idea of CalREN.  They are trying to secure funding
      within their own organization that they could offer
      pro bono service.  They haven't said that they will
      yet.  We are talking to them.  They have a companion
      tariff on all of our services, Frame Relay and SMDS.
      They want to offer a concurrent market trial with our
      ATM market trial, and we are beginning to negotiate
      those things.  So we will pay for services up to GTE
      at this point in time, and it is kind of yet to be
      determined what GTE is going to do.  So there will be
      more -- as soon as that becomes available, we will put
      that out in briefing packages.  [The status with GTE remains
    unchanged.]
              PARTICIPANT:  Okay.

              PANELIST:  I just want to say that, reinforce
      what Randy said, is that on the services side, General
      Telephone is a few months behind us in tariffing their
      Frame Relay service.  We are very close to being in
      sync with ATM.  They will be a little bit behind us.
      Currently with SMDS, we both offer it, and we maintain
      the inter-connection.  So in a situation like that, a
      CalREN customer, regardless of what happens with
      General Telephone's CalREN decisions, the network, the
      connections between the companies are there, so that
      would not be an added burden for someone to connect
      Pac Bell to GTE.  We maintain those on our own.

              PARTICIPANT:  I am still trying to understand
      the technical aspects.  If you've got an ISDN
      connection to your home with the 128 kilobit per
      second throughput, what sort of device would you need
      to attach to your computer so you could have that kind
      of transfer rate, because a modem wouldn't do it.

              PANELIST:  It is called a terminal adapter.  A
      terminal adapter is ISDN for modem, and they come in
      stand-alone boxes that just sit next to your computer,
      or they come built into telephone sets, if you are a
      heavy voice user.  If you get one that's built into
      the telephone set, though, the fastest that it's going
      to go is 64 kilobits, because it is going to use the
      other channel for voice.  Or there are things called
      PC TA cards, which actually are cards that go into the
      bus of either the Macintosh or the PC that support it,
      or if you buy like a Sun workstation, ISDN is on the
      motherboard.

              PARTICIPANT:  The second question.

              PANELIST:  A common net bridge is a form of
      stand-alone terminal adapter.  It is a device that
      sits next to your computer that is like a modem, it is
      just external to the computer.  What's a terminal
      adapter?

              PARTICIPANT:  Right.  What's the minimum sort
      of connection you need to be able to transfer video
      real time?
              PANELIST:  Well, you can do all kinds of low
      speed video down to the, you know, the phones that you
      can go down to the local store and buy for a thousand
      bucks.

              PANELIST:  Yeah, AT&T has one that they do on
      analog.  It is terrible.

              PANELIST:  But realistically, and I'll let
      Ella really answer it, you can do very acceptable
      video on one ISDN line at 112K.

              PANELIST:  Yeah, the compression on the video
      conferencing units has gotten down to the point that
      it's really good.  What happens is you can tell that
      the audio is a little bit delayed, because when I am
      looking at you, it takes a second for you to respond
      back to me, not quite like you would be if you and I
      are talking here real time.  Also what they do is they
      change the frames for whatever moves, so if you move
      really fast, you will get this kind of hazing at 112
      kilobits or a shadow that will follow the movement.
      At 384, which is the HO service, or taking three ISDN
      lines and putting an inverse multiplexer on it of same
      kind, Switch 384 is pretty much like you and I sitting
      here across from each other.

              PARTICIPANT:  It is striking how many
      different kinds of applications you are likely to get
      in this and how yeasty that's going to be not just for
      you but for the rest of us.  What plans do you have
      for sharing the results of the submissions, probably
      not just the winners, but some larger set of
      interesting ideas even if they weren't fundable?

              PANELIST:  Yes.  CalREN, we are setting aside
      funding for publication of those applications -- the
      winners, as you say, as well as the ones that are not
      awarded.  But we believe that one of the benefits of
      CalREN is open and public on the applications.  We
      want to share that.  We want to broadcast the success
      stories.  We plan on doing press releases at key
      milestones for projects, and there is even talk that
      some of the bigger projects may be doing a
      minidocumentary film from the kernel of the idea to
      the completion of the application.  So the whole idea
      is that these applications are global in nature, have
      a wide user base open and public and that maybe can be
      portable from one industry to the other.  That's the
      ones that we would really applaud as ones that work
      well in health care.  It could be portable to the
      insurance industry and the real estate industry, and
      so on.

              PARTICIPANT:  That last question evoked sort
      of a thought.  Suppose you have a couple of
      proprietary ideas that are very special and you
      submit, but don't get selected, and don't want those
      circulated.  Do you give those up as a result of your
      submission?

              PANELIST:  We ask that you don't submit
      proprietary information.  We kind of chose our wording
      carefully in the RFP about proprietary information.
      Anything that's proprietary, do not submit in the
      proposal, just the part that you want to be open.
      However, one of the goals of CalREN is to have some
      open and global use of some of the applications.  So
      if a project was submitted that is completely
      proprietary in nature, it would probably have a
      limited chance of success in being awarded.

              PARTICIPANT:  Some projects may go on after
      the pilot period.  Do you have any intention to
      provide educational tariffing on these services after
      the support from CalREN is complete?

              PANELIST:  There is efforts underway looking
      at some of the issues, pricing structures, for the
      education market on some of these services.  I can't
      talk in detail, specific detail about them.  At this
      time we can't guarantee that as part of CalREN, so, I
      mean, the expectation is that you wait --

              PARTICIPANT:  That is something that the
      corporation is concerned with.

              PANELIST:  As a whole.

              PARTICIPANT:  Thank you.

              PARTICIPANT:  Concerning the ATM, I assume
      that that's going to be related to the rolling out
      cable services or whatever.

              PANELIST:  No, no.

              PANELIST:  Yeah, I don't want to say they are
      mutually exclusive.  The $16 billion investment
      announcement from a few weeks ago is an overall
      infrastructure upgrade.  The ATM deployment that we
      are going to do -- actually next week, next Tuesday,
      our first two ATM customers in Northern California,
      our first two ATM customers, period, are going to come
      on line in Northern California, and then the Southern
      California network will be up again in April '94, but
      that effort, those are two separate efforts.  The one
      that's coming up next year is the commercial oriented
      and the California First, et cetera, $16 billion
      investment is more oriented towards residential
      broadband services.

              PARTICIPANT:  My other question was if we are
      going to be very limited in the area where the ATM is
      going to be rolled out during the period for the
      CalREN projects, would you be -- is it possible to run
      private cable, I mean, do our own drops, in other
      words.

              PANELIST:  Well, CalREN has specific funding
      areas that Ron Brown touched on as far as specific
      area codes.  The ATM service, when we turn it up, will
      be available, and I don't want to use phraseology that
      maybe isn't clear, but within the Los Angeles service
      area, which is LATA 5, if you are familiar with
      "telephone-ese," that encompasses Los Angeles, the
      Valley, Orange County, Riverside and San Bernardino,
      and it will be available within any of Pacific Bell
      service areas, within territories, within that service
      area 5 and, again, General Telephone, although there
      will be a public announcement in the near future they
      are going to make a light network and we are going to
      interconnect.  So by June of '94 it will be a
      situation where ATM will be available basically
      anywhere within this Los Angeles service area.

              PARTICIPANT:  Right.

              PANELIST:  If you have more questions on ATM,
      the briefing packages do have the question and answer
      transcripts from our briefing sessions on ATM. [Briefing
    Package No. 3 contains the question and answer transcript
    from the San Francisco Bay Area ATM Briefing Session and
    Briefing Package No. 5 contains the Greater Los Angeles
    Area.]

              PARTICIPANT:  I am with UCLA, and we fall
      within the GTE area, but in your introduction it
      mentioned about making special arrangements with GTE.
      What types of special arrangements are you referring
      to?

              PANELIST:  Well, we are talking about GTE on
      Asynchronous Transfer Mode that they would run a
      concurrent market trial, so they would serve their
      customer base at the same time we would serve our
      customer base on CalREN.  Special arrangements would
      be if this negotiation doesn't bear fruit with GTE
      that's publicly addressable and your application has
      merit.  Just because you are in the GTE area, do not
      hold back from submitting.  What we are saying is if
      your proposal has merit and you are sitting in GTE,
      please submit it.  We can work with GTE to try to find a way
      of providing that service to you on a case-by-case
      basis.

              PANELIST:  Any other questions?

              PANELIST:  We'd like to thank you for coming
      out today, and if you'd like, you can approach us
      after the session here, and we'd be happy to answer
      any additional individual questions.

              PANELIST:  Thank you very much.

                           ---o0o---


Networking/Collaboration List

San Francisco - Morning Session (Health Care and
Community, Government & Commercial Services)*:


Name    Company Name    Telephone Number

atricia Caplan    Mission Neighborhood Health Center    415-552-3870
Anthony Coogan    Stereomedia, Inc.    818-559-6515
Denice Maiden    Ravenswood School District    415-329-2807
Marie Keeling    Ca. Dept of Health Svcs.    415-906-9681
Dean Daily    Foothill College    408-281-4069 (FAX)
Richard Breiman    East Bay Medical Imaging    510-420-6088
Ray Otake    Asian Health Services    510-465-3271
Tyrone Navarro    LatinoNet    415-550-0785
Tasha Castaneda    Ravenswood School District    415-329-2800
Dorothy Greene    Family Service Agency/S.Mateo County 415-692-0555
Kenneth Saunders    Redwood City School District    415-364-4586
Michael Tharenos    Pangea Consulting    408-578-5130
David Snyder    Snyder Research Company    415-499-3463
Emily Troutner    Pandora Systems    510-490-0190
Ed Klingman    ISDN*Tek    415-712-3000
Barbara Selva    Internal Revenue Service    415-556-0308
Geri Kaman    Pacific Hydro    510-522-7794
Bob Polako    Environmental Science Association    415-896-5900
Don Pinol    Consultant    408-723-7928
Charles Rudkin    Autodesk, Inc.    415-332-2344
Richard Wilson    Software Assist    415-921-3417
Julie Sappington    Ca. Public Utilities Commission 415-203-1386
David Brusiee    Consultant    510-462-7730
Mark Stamos    Conway Engineering    510-568-4028
Cheryl Jacobson    Cal/Nev CAA    916-443-1721

San Francisco - Afternoon Session (Education):


V. Zuber    San Lorenzo Unified School District    510-481-4600, Ext. 234
Sig Rogers    Lawrence Berkeley Lab    510-486-6713
James Cushing    Real 2rs    415-776-4171
Tim Pearson    Multimedia Development Group    415-252-0740
Diane Ortiz    Peninsula Library System    415-349-2895
Bart Decrem    Plugged In    415-322-1134
John Luczak    Ravenswood School District    415-329-2811
Rob Glidden    Soft Press    510-631-9491
Laurie Edwards    University of Ca. Santa Cruz    408-459-3291
Sean Griffin    Universal Art Support    408-295-7920
Marilyn Lonskin-Miller    Hillsborough School District 415-342-5193
Ted Kolin    IRC    415-496-7919
Katheryn Nied    Universal Art Support    408-293-1804
Kay Hill    Hillsborough City Schools    415-342-5193
Tom Reddy    Critical Mass (alliance consulting)    510-283-0143
Tish Krieg    Ravenswood School    415-325-5537
Frankie Kangas    San Jose Mercury News    408-920-9220
John Waysill    Peralta District    510-466-7267
Gordon Rudow    Universal Art Support    408-295-7920
Bob Peterson    Burlingame School District    415-259-3812
Bob Scruggs    Pleasanton Unified School District    510-426-4430
Bruce Gritten    Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Inst. 408-647-3733
David Dirks    Lawrence Livermore Lab    510-423-4287
Parker Lee    Interactive Media    415-927-8080
Jeff Snipes    Interactive Media    415-927-8080
Cindy Vinson    ESU HSD    408-729-3911, Ext. 2404
Joseph Giroux    West Valley Mission Comm. College     408-741-2086
Janet Dixon    SCAC    415-926-3688
Beverly Simmons    City of Sunnyvale    408-730-7314
Robert Kibby    Cabrillo Unified School District    415-712-7100
Ruthellen Dickinson    Santa Clara County Office of Education    408-453-6719
Liduiva Van Nes    Internews    415-931-2593
Kathleen Prasch    Concord High School    510-687-2030
Rollie Otto    Lawrence Berkeley Lab    510-486-5325
Patricia S. Robertson    San Jose Unified School District    408-998-7806
Dell Anderson    San Jose Unified School District    408-998-6330
Chris Fennig    PRC Inc.    703-620-8046
Dave Brusiee    Project Management Consultant    510-462-7730
Tania Madfes    SEABA Far West Lab    415-241-2703
Richard Wenn    SEABA Far West Lab    415-241-2729
Jay Thompson    Northern Ca. Telecom. Consortium    916-565-0188
Frank Ramirez    CSU Chancellor's Office    310-985-2542 or 916-323-9518
Lee Vandiver    San Jose State University    408-924-2305
Denice Maiden    Ravenswood School District    415-329-2807
Noel Wixsom    Winterlan    510-486-1812
P. A. Moore    SLAC    415-926-3826
Shelley McIntyre    Santa Clara University    408-554-6833
Margaret Kapranos    San Rafael School District    415-898-1398
Frank Pizzimenti    Pittsburg Unified School District 510-439-8261
Tom Dalton    PRC    703-620-8191
David Saxon    MDG    415-252-5839
JoAnn Senger    University of California    510-987-0527
Hayes Kiernan    3COM    303-694-1670
Lynne Stoops    Exploratorium    415-353-0432
Nancy Palmer    Palo Alto Unified School District    415-329-3775
Henry Kleinsorge    IBEX Capital Resources    415-777-4608
John MacLeod     Fast Forward    415-381-3463
Diana Nichols    The Harker School    408-249-2510
Sharon Neyers    The Harker School    408-249-2510
Larry Trice    Sequoia High School District    415-368-8581
John McBrearty    Contra Costa County Office of  Educ.  510-942-3412
Steve O'Donoghue    The Media Academy, Oakland USD    510-534-4381
Theresa Nelson    Chabot Observatory & Science Center    510-530-3480
Bill Pelter    Mental Health Assoc. of Contra Costa 510-603-1212
Ron Curran    Mental Health Assoc. of Contra Costa 510-603-1212
George Saunders    Mental Health Assoc. of Contra Costa    510-603-1212
Dick Sweztapple    Mission College    408-988-2200, Ext. 3217
Mike Herbst    Berkeley Unified School District    510-644-8937
John Mason    Mason Institute    707-795-2228
Nanci Anderson    AACI Consultant    415-688-1948`
David Barney    DeAnza College    408-864-8300
Joe Oakley    Autodesk Foundation    415-332-2344
Dale Pifer    Mission College    408-748-2790
Hector Myerston    SRI    415-859-5740
Dave Holbrook    VISTAR    916-421-2430
Roxanne Hendrickson    Foothill    415-949-7609
William Herald    Westberg White    415-588-3634
Roger Pandandia    MCS    619-558-3865
Phil Urquiza    Pacific Studio Center    415-961-7296
Helen Shoemaker    CSU Hayward    510-881-3598
Brenda Miller    Pleansanton Unified School District    510-426-4332
John Riley    Alameda County Office of Education    510-670-4160
Larry Shaw    The Exploratorium    415-561-0367
Don Tingley    San Mateo Union High School District 415-348-8834
David Lenn    Plugged In    415-322-1134
Pam Daniels    Bay Area Library & Information Service 510-839-6001
Suzanne Sullivan    CSUH    510-791-7103
Jackie Brand    Foundation for Technology Access    510-528-0747
Joe Tusin    UC, Office of the President    510-987-9753
Richard Adler    SeniorNet/University of San Francisco 415-750-5030
Bruce Buckelew    Oakland Technical High School    510-547-0800
Maria Luz Agudelo    San Francisco Unified School District    415-469-4777
Barry Jacobs    SFSV MMSR    415-904-7740
Sherry Huss    Renga Software    415-375-0470
Pete Killconway    Nexsys Electronics    415-541-9980
Paul Heavenridge    Neighborhood Learning Center    510-547-8245
Lea Murray    Independent Contractor    510-465-2129
Kathleen Barfield    Far West Laboratory (Education) 415-565-3055
Lisa Kale    UC Berkeley    510-642-8420
Barry Parr    San Jose Mercury News    408-920-5384
Kathleen Wall    San Jose State  Counseling Services    408-924-5941
Phyllis Lindstrom    Evergreen School District    408-270-6800
Bill Yundt    Stanford University    415-725-8542
Heather Hudson    USF    415-666-6642
Lou Silberman    Jefferson Union High School District 415-756-0300
Lucia Hicks-William        510-638-1460
Jeff Bowser    New Haven USD    510-471-1100
Scarlet Svendsen    Svendsen & Associates    408-338-4715
Maria Brown    Mt. Diablo Unified School District    510-672-5445
Paul Baer    BARRNet - Internet Services Provider    415-725-1790


Los Angeles - Morning Session (Health Care and
Community, Government & Commercial Services):


Rudy Mendoza    Competitiveness Development Spec.    213-725-1558
Michael Blyzka    SAIC    310-781-8775
Harry Mangalam    College of Medicine - UC Irvine    714-856-4824
Michael Hill    SMMUSD    310-396-9893
Ken Allen    KDA Assoc.    714-730-5093
Robert L. Smith    Experimental Cities    310-276-0686
Marc Mareels    Kaiser Permanente    818-564-7041
Erica LeBlanc    El Camino College    310-715-3117
Steve Fasteau    El Camino College    310-715-3126
Shi-Ping Hsu    TRW    310-812-2777
Fred Hungerford    L. A. County Library    310-940-8450
Richard Royce    Financial Video Network    310-831-5625
Michael Pfalf    Altamed Health Services    213-889-7323
Karyn Rina    MALDEF    213-629-2512
Tony Rippo    RMRI    619-756-4252
Jim Hietala    Network Express    408-241-5165
Randy Arntson    California Microwave    818-712-4565
Dan Drago    California Microwave    818-992-8000
Gary Smith        909-595-0254
Bruce Polichar    Consultant KCET    310-837-3721
Michael Hirsch    American Red Cross-L.A.    213-739-5632
Don Davis    CD Book Publishers    714-526-6434
William Montgomery    L. A. County Urban Research    213-351-5363
Wayne Bannister    L. A. County Urban Research    213-351-5350
Bob Foster    Cray Comm.    714-553-6600
Alex Bradley    National Digital    714-771-3808
James Danker    Hughes    714-732-5413
Russell DePina    The Design Group    310-924-7676
Lawrence Rogan    Venture Technologies Group    213-465-5696
Kenneth Moore     SAIC    310-781-8759
James E. Smith    ISCOMP    310-641-3260
Josephine Yonai    LAColSD*ITS    213-240-8325
George Magdaleu    Pasadena Unified School District 818-568-4522
John Sam    Chinese Metropolitan Network    818-854-0362
Jaqueline Harris    Gray Panthers - Long Beach    310-987-1136
Karon Gordon    L.A. Urban League    213-299-9660
Anita Brenner    Torres Brenner    818-792-3175
Ibrahim Naeem    TCAP    619-579-3921
Nehman McAdam    Intelligent Business Solutions, Inc.  310-539-4726
Donna Silvestre    California Public Utilities Commission    310-412-6433
Mark Boyd    Pepperdine University    310-456-4860
Jose Zertuche    Latin Business Association    818-333-8993
Mike Estrada    Los Angeles Community College Dist.    213-891-2123
Bob Biller    USC    213-740-8022
Dave Chaney    C&W Fiber Optics    818-772-6233
Mike Guenther    Trident Data Systems    310-645-6483
David Siverberg    L.A. Online    310-372-9364
Mary Card    APM, Inc.    310-217-4068
Cameron Lorentz    Synopt    310-323-0601
Marylou Igercich    Telegenik Comm.    310-284-3161
John Perez    Cray    310-372-2211
Steve Shaw    NetSoft    714-768-4013
Karen O'Callaghan    NetSoft    714-768-4013


Los Angeles - Afternoon Session (Education):

Gary Blohm    UCLA Extension    310-825-3468
Ben Seaberry    JPL Public Education    818-354-6916
Karen Fasimpaur    Davidson & Assoc.    310-793-0600, Ext. 278
Steve Fasteau    El Camino College    310-715-3126
Mary Anderson    County of Los Angeles    310-940-8521
Bill Maddigan    Wm. S. Hart School District    805-259-0033
Joe Mally    LAEP    213-622-5237
John Perry    Work for L.A.    213-224-6191
Donald Case    UCLA    310-206-9354
Virginia McBride    Diagramix    818-355-0974
Robert Billings    L.A. Harbor College    310-522-8356
Henry Ingle    Institute for Redesign of Learning    213-341-5597
Dave Kresseu    Pacific Oaks College    818-792-8546
Elizabeth Ghaffrai    Technology Place    310-396-9863
David Hemsley    Paramount USD    310-602-6015
Dr. David Dowell    Pasadena City College    818-357-5381
Peter Robert Trevino    Lucreado    714-642-8572
Elena Minor    National Latino Communic Ctr    213-663-8294
Rebecca King    SAIC    310-552-7535
Dick Beebe    County of L.A. Public Library    310-940-8428
Marilyn Kelly    Coastline C.C.    714-241-6142
Laurie Uristnet    Cerritos College    310-860-2451, Ext. 2191
Daniel Garces    Lucreado    714-642-8573
Marvin Feinblatt    Digitron Communications    818-340-2596
Bruce Gibeson    Coast to Coast    301-855-0745
Lunne Domosh    Orange County Register    714-664-5021
Joseph Georges    El Camino College    310-715-3566
Frank Burris     UCLA Extension    310-206-1543
Tom Rohrer    University of Redlands    909-335-4068
Leslie Podolsky    UCLA Telecommunications    310-206-3799
Ginger Neal    Orange County Register    714-953-4998
Nancy Lavelle    The Institute for Redesign of Learning 213-257-3006
Bonnie Easley    L.A. Harbor College    310-522-8469
Donna Dutton    Foundation for Technology Access    310-395-4866
Gary Levine    CSU Dominguez Hills    310-576-3727
Dawn Marie Patterson    Cal State Los Angeles    213-343-4907
Dolores Patton    Open Magnet Charter School    213-937-6249
Jane Craford    Open Magnet Charter School    213-937-6249
Walter Swanson    Wm. S. Hart Union High School Dist.    805-259-0033
Judy Chiswell    American Film Institute    213-856-7640
Erica LeBlanc    El Camino College    310-715-3117
Howard Postley    Ideal Point, Inc.    310-216-7212, Ext. 457
Catherine Rodriguez    Westwood Charter School    310-474-7788
Demetrius Stevenson    United Way    213-736-1300
Tammy Tumbling    United Way    213-736-1300

* It was in this session that we began receiving
requests for a "networking" list.  Those who left this
session early missed out on the opportunity to be on
this list, but please feel free to use it.
We apologize for any misspellings on this list--some
entries were extremely hard to read.  We tried to verify
spellings where possible, but the week after Christmas
was not a good time to reach people in the office!  We
do not plan on publishing this list again, so please
refrain from calling us with corrections.

Appendix D

Education, Health Care, and Community, Government and Commercial Service RFPs

Section III.B Addendum


This is an addendum to Section III.B of the Education,
Health Care, and Community, Government and Commercial
Services RFPs (this addendum does not apply to the
Asynchronous Transfer Mode - Greater Los Angeles Area
RFP).  The purpose of this addendum is to provide
narrative of our expectations for the content of Section
4:  Project Budget.



Section 4:  Project Budget


4a.    Total Project Budget

Identify the cost of all major components of the
project.  Components which must be identified are
CalREN-sponsored data communication costs and the non-
Pacific Bell participant contributions (this section is
a summary of sections 4b. and 4c.).

 4b.    Data Communication Costs

Identify the project's data communication requirements
and associated costs for the CalREN-sponsored portion
only (e.g. if the project requires data communications
outside of, or between Pacific Bell service areas those
costs would not be included in this section, instead
they would be included in Section 4c because they would
be supplied by an inter-exchange carrier).  Pricing
guidelines are attached to assist you in preparing this
section.  The guidelines include all areas which must be
addressed.  State the duration of the requested service
and the number of lines/access connections by street
address (as specified in 2.c.i).

4c.    Participant Contributions

Identify all major non-Pacific Bell components of the
project (those identified in 2.c.ii) and their
associated costs.  These include hardware (customer
premises equipment, computer equipment), software (off-
the-shelf and/or custom development), consulting fees,
inter-exchange carrier costs, project management
expenses, and personnel expenses.  State the source of
the elements, the associated cost, and whether the
element is contingent on other types of support (such as
federal grants).
CalREN RFP Project Budget:
Data Communication Pricing Guidelines


To assist participants in responding to the Education,
Health Care, and Community, Government, and Commercial
Services RFPs, the following summary provides pricing
information for the data communication services included
in CalREN.  [CalREN will pay for all installation and
monthly charges for the duration of approved projects.
Excessive usage requirements may need to be negotiated.]

In addition to installation and monthly charges, ISDN
and SDS-56 services have a monthly usage component.
Monthly usage estimates must include the approximate
minutes per use per month the service will be in use
(between identified locations where possible) for non-
long-distance use.  CalREN recognizes that such usage
figures are estimates and will work with approved
projects to monitor usage needs through project
implementation.

Due to tariff complexities, some of the figures below
are averages and/or approximations.  Please note that
this pricing data is for CalREN RFP response budgetary
purposes only  and does not represent a Pacific Bell
price quotation.  Complete and detailed pricing
information for each service is available in tariff
filings with the California Public Utilities Commission.
If you feel that you require further pricing detail or
clarification, contact your Pacific Bell account
executive or the CalREN staff at 1-800-CalREN7.

--------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------

Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM)*:


                Installation Charge    Monthly Rate

DS3 Access, Per Line        $5,000.00        $4,850.00

OC3c Access, Per Line        $8,500.00        $7,899.00

Change Charge    $45.00
    The Change Charge applies when a participant:
    *Adds or deletes a PVC
    *Changes the PCR of individual PVCs.

The access  installation charges do not apply to those
participants who have already purchased a DS3 line for
DS3 SMDS or for DS3 dedicated lines and are changing to
ATM service at DS3 rates.

Frame Relay:


                Installation Charge    Monthly Rate

Access:

56 kbps (ADN), Per Line        $620.00            $50.00

1.536 Mbps (T1), Per Line    $1324.00        $162.59

Service (Network Port Connections):

  56 kbps, Per Connection    $375.00            $75.00
128 kbps, Per Connection    $375.00            $150.00
384 kbps, Per Connection    $375.00            $400.00
1.536 Mbps, Per Connection    $375.00            $500.00

The access  installation charges do not apply to those
participants who have already purchased an ADN or T1
line for another data communication service and are
changing to Frame Relay service.


Switched Multimegabit Data Service (SMDS):


                Installation Charge    Monthly Rate
Access:

DS1, Per Line            $1324.00        $162.59

DS3, Per Line            $4500.00        $2000.00

Service (Network Port Connections):

  4 Mbps, Per Port        $4800.00        $3500.00
10 Mbps, Per Port        $4800.00        $4500.00
16 Mbps, Per Port        $4800.00        $5000.00
25 Mbps, Per Port        $4800.00        $5500.00
34 Mbps, Per Port        $4800.00        $6000.00

The access  installation charges do not apply to those
participants who have already purchased a DS1 line for
another data communication service and are changing to
SMDS service.

Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN):


                    Installation Charge    Monthly Rate

Per Line                $240.00            $30.00

Usage                    $     .25 per minute


Switched Digital Services 56 (SDS-56):


                    Installation Charge    Monthly Rate

Per Line                $500.00            $45.00

Usage                    $     .25 per minute




*  The Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) pricing
guidelines are provided informationally only.  A Project
Budget Section was not requested in the ATM RFPs.


    APPENDIX E




Pacific Bell Applications Bulletin Board System


Description

The Pacific Bell Applications BBS is an electronic
database (Bulletin Board System) of Pacific Bell's
products and applications.  It is available to customers
dialing in with modems or ISDN terminal adapters.

The focus of the BBS is on high-end data applications.
Some of the options available are:

Ñ    Applications Information (diagrams, CPE, examples)
Ñ    Product Information (descriptions, slide shows)
Ñ    Customer Premises Equipment Information (Joint
Marketing, catalogs, technical tips)
Ñ    Pacific Bell Training Services Catalog
Ñ    User Group Information
Ñ    CalREN Information

Instructions

Use any standard modem communication software and adjust
your settings for the following:

Terminal Emulation:      First choice:       ANSI BBS
    Second choice:  VT100 or VT102
                         Third choice:     TTY


Communication Settings:           8 bits per character
    1 stop bit
    Parity none

Transmission Speed:                  Up to 14,000 bps
analog
    Up to 38,400 bps ISDN -
    (57,600 speed planned)



File Transfer Protocol: Zmodem highly recommended.
      Other protocols are supported but are much slower and/or harder to
use.

BBS Phone Number:         510-277-1037 for analog calls
    510-823-4888 for ISDN calls


You can view some of the text files while on-line, other
files have to be downloaded  to your computer into a
compatible application program (e.g. Microsoft Word,
Excel or PowerPoint 3.0).

The CalREN screens are provided on the following three
pages.





    ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄      Pacific Bell      ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄

 ---------------------------------------
                   Main Menu
 ---------------------------------------
  I = Info on Pacific Bell Products
  F = File library
 T = Technical tip database
 S = Send note or file to BBS Mgr.
 U = User group information
 E = Education and Training
 P = Pacific Bell Only
 --------------------------------------
 A = Alter Computer Settings
 D = Display Computer Settings

---------------------------------------
 G = Goodbye/Logoff


Command: f


     ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄      Pacific Bell      ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄

-------------------------------------------
File Sections               Line 19
-------------------------------------------
 1 = Application/Product files
 2 = PB Product Demo Files
 3 = Clip Art Files (Telecom)
 4 = Customer Premises Equipment
 5 = CalREN Documents
 6 = DCS Awareness Guide


 ------------------------------------------
 0 = Top Menu     Esc = Prior Menu
 G = Goodbye/Logoff
 ------------------------------------------

Command: 5




▄▄▄▄▄▄▄      Pacific Bell      ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄

---------------------------------------
 File Menu                   Line 19
 --------------------------------------
 L = List Files Available
 ? = Help/info on downloading



 -------------------------------------------
 0 = Top Menu     Esc = Prior Menu
 G = Goodbye/Logoff
 ------------------------------------------
File Section: "CALREN Documents"

Command: l


--------------------------------------------------------
                        CalREN Documents
--------------------------------------------------------

  CalREN, the California Research and Education Network,
is Pacific Bell's program to stimulate the development
and dissemination of high-speed data communication
applications to run on the information superhighway.

  These are binary files.  You need to download them to
your computer and then logoff the BBS in order to use/view them.
Use the Help command if you are new to modem downloads -- it can be
confusing to first-timers.

------------------------- Files for download -----------

ATM.TXT        13074    Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) Description
ATMLA.TXT      22795    Los Angeles ATM request for proposal
ATMSF.TXT      21973    San Francisco ATM request for proposal
COMGOVCS.TXT   25956    Community, Gov, Comm. Svcs. requ. for proposa
EDU.TXT        24586    Education request for proposal
HEALTH.TXT     25908    Health Care request for proposal
BRIEF1.TXT     15572    Briefing Package #1
BRIEF2.TXT     14399    Briefing Package #2
BRIEF3.TXT     25792    Briefing Package #3
BRIEF4.TXT     11737    Briefing Package #4
CALREN.PPT    537165    CalREN overview in Powerpoint 3.0

Enter "*.txt" as file name to download the entire list
with Zmodem
--------------------------------------------------------
----------------

------------------- Commands --------------------
D= Download   P=Protocol   L=List files   H=Help
------------------ <CR>= Exit -------------------
? --->