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Text File | 1990-02-12 | 16.2 KB | 367 lines

Messages from the Fido-Net Commodore Echo about a C-64/Hard Drive Project. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Public message # 9457 CBM ECHO Entered 17:46 Saturday 6-Oct-90 From: Ivey Cole on 1:382/83 To: Whom Cares. Re: Experimental Hard drive on the C64 I have successfully connected an IBM PC hard disk controller and drive to the C64 and written some code to interface with the hard drive. There is probably little practical use for such an animal except in some customised application If there is any interest in this let me know and I'll see about making the information available. The transfer rate is about 40kilobytes per second. The BIOS supports all the functions of the drives, but I have never tried to interface it directly to the C64 KERNAL as a replacement drive since there would be little software that would be compatible. Maybe a customised bulletin board or other application could utilize such. --- QuickBBS 2.64/O, Because Nothing Does It Better. * Origin: The Auto Control - 14.4K HST, 485 Meg. On-Line (1:382/83) Public message # 15917 CBM ECHO Entered 09:24 Sunday 14-Oct-90 From: Ivey Cole on 1:382/83 Re: Experimental Hard Drive On The C64 RH -* Subj : Experimental Hard drive on the C64 RH -hi ivey i saw your message here on the local bbs in my home RH -town and I'm VERY! interested in ANY! info you can give me RH -concerning the experimental HD interface with the c=64 RH -please get back to me. Rod, There is a file in the Misc file section on the 'AutoControl' BBS here on the banks of Jink's branch just south of Liberty Hill, Texas. The file is C64HD.ZIP which contains some documentation(sparse) and the assembler source for the basic i/o routines. The phone number of the BBS is 512-778-6246 and you can download on your first signon. The file is a PC ZIP file, so would require that it be downloaded to an IBM compatible PC and UNZIPed. If you don't have access to an IBM compatible let me know and we can create LINKED file compatible with the C64. The source is for the C64 Assembler, but could be easily converted to what ever assembler you might be using. Let me know if we need to convert the file to C64 format. BTW, the AutoControl supports speeds from 300 to 14400HST and is available 24 hours, 7 days a week. Ivey Cole p.s. Do you have the C64 Assembler? If you do, I have a package that will modify your copy to allow up to 14 character labels, allow it to reside under the ROM's (makes for quick loading), as well as several other enhancements to the package. --- QuickBBS 2.64/O, Because Nothing Does It Better. * Origin: The Auto Control - 14.4K HST, 485 Meg. On-Line (1:382/83) Public message # 17767 CBM ECHO Entered 11:45 Tuesday 16-Oct-90 From: Rod Hammerand on 1:283/610 To: Ivey Cole Re: Experimental Hard Drive On The C64 * Subj : Re: Experimental Hard Drive On The C64 IC>RH -* Subj : Experimental Hard drive on the C64 IC>available 24 hours, 7 days a week. IC> IC>Ivey Cole IC> IC>p.s. Do you have the C64 Assembler? If you do, I have a package IC>that will modify your copy to allow up to 14 character labels, IC>allow it to reside under the ROM's (makes for quick loading), as IC>well as several other enhancements to the package. IC> IC>--- QuickBBS 2.64/O, Because Nothing Does It Better. IC> * Origin: The Auto Control - 14.4K HST, 485 Meg. On-Line IC>(1:382/83) hi ivey i guess i will need you to set it up so i can d-load it to my c-64, also if you can is there some way i can call you to get more info on the HD emulation? Like how do I go about setting it up, ( I've had a c=64 for six years and don't know a whole lot about the internals) Anyhow I also have a c=64 bbs here in dubuque ia called the big chill (319-582-3409) and i would like to try to set up the emulation so I can run a HD a little more cheaply than with the cmd or lt kernal line ($599-over $1000 for either of those drives) anyhow if you want I can be reached either here or on my bbs or you can call me between 10:00am and 2:00pm central time at 319-583-4622 thanks again and good luck on your experiment. Rod Hammerand --- SuperBBS 1.05/O (Eval. Copy) * Origin: The House of ILL Compute! *GUZZ* (319) 556-4536 (1:283/610) Public message # 19985 CBM ECHO Entered 23:24 Wednesday 17-Oct-90 From: Ivey Cole on 1:382/83 To: Rod Hammerand Re: Experimental Hard Drive On The C64 RH -hi ivey i guess i will need you to set it up so i can RH -d-load it to my c=64, also if you can is there some way i RH -can call you to get more info on the HD emulation? Like RH -how do I go about setting it up, ( I've had a c=64 for six RH -years and don't know a whole lot about the internals) RH -Anyhow I also Have a c=64 bbs here in dubuque ia called RH -the big chill (319-582-3409) RH -and i would like to try to set up the emulation so I can RH -run a HD a little more cheaply than with the cmd or lt RH -kernal line ($599-over $1000 for either of those drives) RH -anyhow if you want I can be reached either here or on my RH -bbs or you can call me between 10:00am and 2:00pm central RH -time at 319-583-4622 RH -thanks again and good luck on your experiment. RH - Rod Hammerand Rod, We will get the file or files available in C64 format by this Saturday. As far as running the drive on your BBS, the BBS program would need to be changed to access the hard drive. This might be an impossible task if you don't have the source code. The other alternative would to figure a way to write a 'DOS'. The price could be right since a controller card and a 10meg or so hard drive can be picked at a good price. BTW the C64 files will be in LYNX format if you can handle them. I think that is the only type of compression software we have for the C64. The other alternative would be to have individual files in non compressed format. If we get time, we will put them out both ways. If you would like to discuss this over the phone, I'm available from around 8:00 p.m. to 11:30 p.m. CDT at 512-778-6106. Feel free to call. I'm in the process of phasing out of the C64 world due to a lack of time. It is a fun machine to fool around with, but my job is in the PC world. Ivey Cole --- QuickBBS 2.64/O, Because Nothing Does It Better. * Origin: The Auto Control - 14.4K HST, 485 Meg. On-Line (1:382/83) Message #2262 - Commodore Business Machines -t Date : 31-Oct-90 21:34 From : Ivey Cole To : Harsha Godavari Subject : Re: Experimental Harddrive On C-64 HG -C64HD.ZIP Your documentation is done very well. I/we appreciate HG -the effort put into it. Let me remind you that you forgot to HG -identify the "Author" :-) People would like to know those sort of HG -things even if they dont bother to acknowledge. HG - HG -There is considerable interest in adding an IBM type HD to HG -a C64, here in Winnipeg. MB. I have a few questions re the HG -parts used. As we get deeper into the project, we will have a few HG -more. I hope you dont mind. HG - HG -The controller used is WD 1.....? Is it an MFM or RLL? HG -or does it matter? Presummably it is HD only type. HG - The author is myself (Ivey Cole). The controller I am using is a Western Digital WX1 MFM controller. The Western Digital GEN and WX2 card will work also. Note that there is usually some number like 1007 etc associated with the WX1 and WX2 cards and should make no difference. The WX1 and GEN cards would be my preference since they are smaller than the WX2. The RLL controller will work also, but the sample BIOS I supplied assumes MFM. The difference is the number of sectors on a track and would be rather simple to change. It's been a while since I have looked at my code, and it may be that I allowed for this when I wrote it. Will check it. As for a source of the controller card, I recently saw some advertised in the Computer Shopper (I think) for around $25.00 US. That is a good price here for one. You might find a used one for less. I have on occasion picked a few up for 5 or so US dollars. The one I am using will not work in a PC since it has a problem in the DMA area which isn't used on the C64 hookup. I would suggest you start with a know good card though. HG -What make of hardisk did you find works well? Seagate or HG -a Miniscribe? They are more readily available/affordable :-) HG -Does the size make a difference? After all a C-64 does not have HG -MS-DOS' I happen to be using a 5MEG Tandon drive (very old), but have used a 20MEG CMI. Any drive that will interface with the contoller card should suffice. The size is not critical, but if memory serves me correctly the sample BIOS is limited to around 30MEG due to the maximum number of sectors must fit in two bytes which is 65K 512 byte sectors. Most models of the controllers will take a drive with up to 16 heads and 1024 cylinders. The BIOS could be changed to accept the larger size drive. In my opinion, a couple of 30 meg drives would be ample for most situations. Since you have to write your own 'DOS' though you have the flexibility of doing what you want and need. There is no problem with questions. I'll answer to the best of my ability. One more time though, my disclaimer. This may be more of a novelty than something practical. Regards, Ivey --- QuickBBS 2.64/O, It's The REAL Thing. * Origin: The Auto Control - 14.4K HST, 485 Meg. On-Line (1:382/83) . Message #132 "CBM" (Read: 3) Date: 05 Nov 90 12:38:51 From: Alan King To: All Subj: WHO WOULD LIKE A HARD DRIVE?? Well guys, I've finally gotten in touch with Ivey Cole and gotten the interface and code he's worked up for hooking an IBM style Hard Drive and controller to a C64 or 128. It ONLY transfers at around 40k/second since it is non-DMA, but hey, that is only 80 times faster than a 1541.. I think I'm gonna have to shelve the Amiga for a while and work on this.. Is anybody interested?? I think I could work up the Kernal enough to make it at least somewhat 1581 compatable and use it's style partitioning commands.. I may even try to put in an "as compatable as possible" 1541 mode.. At any rate, if I can get it to a fairly professional level, how does around $150 or so sound? That would be the interface board, custom kernal, and a cheap IBM type power supply for the drive. All you would need is your own hard drive and WD WX1 controller to complete it, and a used 10 meg can be had for around $50ish.. so around $200-250 for a COMPLETE 10 meg HD... Give me some feedback on this... --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Micro Message Service NCRTP (919)779-6674 TBBS 2.1M (1:151/102) Message #140 "CBM" (Read: 3) Date: 06 Nov 90 08:27:00 From: Alan King To: Gilles Archer Subj: Re: 2 MEG 1750 Hi again! Just wanted to let you know what's going on... I got in touch with Ivey Cole and got the Bios he'd worked up for adding an IBM type controller and hard drive to the 64. It's pretty simple really, but I have a LOT of programming to do to write a full dos for it. Anyway, the controller is fairly intelligent and communicates with command blocks. It is a LOT like doing transfers to and from the 1750. So here's the deal... I have to use a larger, bank switched Kernal for the HD, so I'm going to put REU support in it too. I'm going to try to write ONE dos for both and just have seperate communication routines. The hard drive AND the REU will both access like a 1581 or as close as possible. If you have an expanded 1750, it will detect and use it as an even larger drive. Obviously, I will try to put in the 1581 partition command, but also try to do a more overall (IE one level higher and above the dos) partition command that can make them act like more than one physical drive. I'm thinking about a Shadow mode, where a 1750 will shadow whatever it can.. As an example, a two meg one would be able to shadow TWO 1581s and two 1541s or a 1571.. Once a block's been read, a second read will come from the REU, and a write goes through to bothe the ram and disk, just like the Geos shadow mode, but this will be in the DOS and should even work with some commercial software. For instance, (this would take 20 minutes..) Load in all eight sides of POOL OF RADIANCE, renumber the REU to device 8 and it should go like lightning since POR is intelligent and won't ask you to change the disk if it finds the files it needs. Put it on a hard drive and you could move it to the REU and be playing in a minute or less with 1 meg or so.. I am going to try to sell the interface, rom and controller card for $150ish. And the power supply with it if I can. All you would need it is the actual HD, and I will leave that up to the end user. That way they can get their own as they see fit. Used 20 megs can be had for $100 or so, so we're talking around $250 for a hard drive. Or even $200 for ten megs. Around twice the price of a 1581... I think I could sell a few. :) As a side note, the interface would pull it's power from the PS, not the 64, and I would also make the REU get it's power there, so using a 2 meg one on a 64 wouldn't overload the power supply.. Whadda ya think? --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: (919)779-7536 Looking thru Windows! (1:151/108) Message #170 "CBM" (Read: 3) Date: 06 Nov 90 21:01:00 From: Gary Vangelder To: If You Can Make This Subj: Re: WHO WOULD LIKE A HARD DRIVE?? If you can make a reliable HD interface in the price range you mentioned then I would be interested in it. The interface you described would be major boost to us dedicated CBM 8 bitters in the area of mass storage. ( much like the Swiftlink was a boost to telecomunications ) I guess this goes to show, old CBM's don't die - they just get better. --- Opus-CBCS 1.14 * Origin: Doctors Inn *XPRESS*HST* Pgh, PA (412-881-7757) (1:129/53.0) Message #226 "CBM" (Read: 5) Date: 07 Nov 90 14:54:00 From: Alan King To: Anthony Marsh Subj: Re: 2 MEG 1750 If you can still snag that Segate, please do... :) I could certainly use some equipment for testing, although I am selling my Amiga system for $800 to get some capital.. I just think it could be worth it.. I could sell it for around $150 (maybe $175, as I said, all they should have to get is their own MFM hard drive. obviously, if someone already had the power supply or controller card etc, I would subtract their cost and send just what they need... Whoops.. ) Also, if interest and quantity dictate, if interest and quantity dictate, I will offer hard drives at cost as cheap as I can get them. If I had the bucks right now, I could get anywhere from 10 to 65 20 meg CMI drives, Full Height, for $69 each. I'm only going to make money from the interfaces. I'm going to price them along with the power supply and controller at EXACTLY $100 over my cost. That is not including my time and the time spent on the DOS. Once I get going in quantity, I will lower my price if the cost to me goes down, and I think the price will be more than fair regardless. Certainly nothing like the profit made CMD and the LT Kernal. For around twice the price of a new 1581, get a 20 meg hard drive system. I'm going to try to make it roughly compatable with the 1581, so it shouldn't be too bad. Also, I'm going to send one to BSW as soon as I get it going so they can work up a driver for it... That's not even mentioning the REU stuff.. I will have to do it just for the 64 first, but anyone with a 128 who gets it beforehand will get the 128 roms as soon as I can get them worked up... It may not be as powerful as the Lt Kernal dos, but then again, it should be pretty well compatable, and won't cost like one either! Later. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: (919)779-7536 Looking thru Windows! (1:151/108) Message #243 "CBM" (Read: 4) Date: 07 Nov 90 14:27:22 From: Alan King To: Justin Pinnix Subj: Re: WHO WOULD LIKE A HARD DRIVE?? Want to do some beta-testing? Once I get my test bed running (around two weeks..) I'm gonna charge JUST for parts for a couple of people around here to let them test the software.. Shouldn't be but around $150 or so TOTAL. But that won't be until I get at least the rudimentary level running (IE Simple Loads and Saves..). Then let them test that while I'm completing the rest of the DOS.. Shouldn't take more than two months to get a pretty complete DOS for the Drive and the REU up and running... --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Micro Message Service NCRTP (919)779-6674 TBBS 2.1M (1:151/102) End of messages.