CP/M/CPM_CDROM.iso/simtel/archives/amethyst/9101-1.txt

Text File | 1992-06-13 | 32.6 KB | 679 lines

 5-Jan-91 05:41:26-MST,883;000000000000
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Date: 5 Jan 91 01:13:02 GMT
From: magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu![e-mail]  (Ann M. Chozinski)
Organization: The Ohio State University (IRCC)
Subject: Define
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What is this newsgroup all about???   Curious Annie

[e-mail]
 7-Jan-91 18:46:11-MST,2620;000000000000
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Date: 8 Jan 91 00:40:13 GMT
From: mcdchg![e-mail]  (Ron Heiby)
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Schaumburg, IL
Subject: Re: Define
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Way back in the "Golden Age" of personal computing, there was an
operating system called CP/M, which later was renamed CP/M-80 (to
avoid confusion with CP/M-86 and CP/M-68K).  On CP/M-80, were
available three wonderful software packages.  One was a C compiler
called "BDS C" (from BD Software).  One was a text editor called
"MINCE" (MINCE Is Not Complete Emacs).  The third was a text formatter
called "Scribble" (a subset of Scribe).  The latter two programs were
from "Mark of the Unicorn".  All three were available seperately.  All
three were available bundled (with much of the source for
Mince/Scribble in BDS-C) into package called "Amethyst".  As the
"Golden Age" was ending, and IBM came out with their "PC",
Mince/Scribble were combined and enhanced into a package called
"FinalWord".  An even more enhanced version called "FinalWord II" came
out a while later.  A year or two after that, the rights to the
program were sold to Borland, who turned it into their product called
"Sprint".  Now, Borland has announced that they have no plans to
continue to upgrade, enhance, or fix Sprint any further.  Some
discussion has been taking place on CompuServe about what should be
done.  It would be truly sad to see such a fine and powerful package
finally die for lack of interest.

As to this newsgroup - there probably is no longer any point.  I doubt
that there are many Amethyst users still actively using CP/M-80.  I
file transferred all of my Mince/Scribble/BDS-C software to MS-DOS
floppies just before de-commissioning my CP/M-80 system, just in case.
In another 5-10 years, I'll probably stop bothering to keep even
those.
--
Ron Heiby, [e-mail]    Moderator: comp.newprod
"Give me voice mail or give me drugs!"/"Mandatory Drug Testing? Just Say NO!!!"
12-Jan-91 09:37:05-MST,855;000000000000
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Date: Sat, 12 Jan 91 00:18:38 EST
From: Marvin Minsky <[e-mail]>
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In-Reply-To: Ron Heiby's message of 8 Jan 91 00:40:13 GMT <[e-mail]>
Subject: Define

Sob.  I did not know about the existence of Sprint.  How can one get a
copy.  I used Final Word for a long time, and most of "The Society of
Mind" was written in it.  When I switched to Macs, I switched to Word.
Does Borland still sell Sprint?
17-Jan-91 12:13:18-MST,1594;000000000000
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Date: 17 Jan 91 17:24:50 GMT
From: amdahl!netcom![e-mail]  (Dan Bernstein)
Organization: Netcom- The Bay Area's Public Access Unix System {408 241-9760 guest}
Subject: Re: Define
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Marvin Minsky) writes:
>Sob.  I did not know about the existence of Sprint.  How can one get a
>copy.  I used Final Word for a long time, and most of "The Society of
>Mind" was written in it.  When I switched to Macs, I switched to Word.
>Does Borland still sell Sprint?

Yes.  We even support it.
--

                           --- Aahz
                               @netcom.uucp  (or apple!netcom!aahz)

    "This is the third stage of human social evolution.  First we had
the legs race.  Then we had the arms race.  Now we're going to have the
brain race.
    "And, if we're lucky, the final stage will be the human race."
23-Jan-91 17:13:15-MST,1861;000000000000
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Date: 23 Jan 91 22:10:56 GMT
From: mcdchg![e-mail]  (Ron Heiby)
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Schaumburg, IL
Subject: Re: Define
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[e-mail] (Dan Bernstein) writes:

>>Does Borland still sell Sprint?

>Yes.  We even support it.

Ahem!  According to what I've read on the BORAPP Forum on CompuServe,
Borland has decided that the finest text editor / text formatter
available for personal computers is not part of their "strategic
direction" (or words to that effect), and that there is *NO* ongoing
work being done on Sprint.

My father is writing a book.  I recommended that he buy a cheap PC and
Sprint and let me train his typist to use the basic features.  I would
come in later and fix up the formatting.  (An easy process, since
Sprint is not (yuck!) WYSIWYG.)  Instead, he decided to hire someone
who already owned a PC.  She is using Word Perfect.  I continually
hear horrer stories from him about "things she says cannot be done"
which I know are like "falling off a log" in Sprint.
--
Ron Heiby, [e-mail]    Moderator: comp.newprod
"Wrong is wrong, even when it helps you." Popeye
24-Jan-91 08:09:33-MST,2777;000000000000
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Date: 24 Jan 91 11:36:09 GMT
From: olivea!oliveb!amdahl!netcom![e-mail]  (Dan Bernstein)
Organization: Perv
Subject: Re: Define
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ron Heiby) writes:
>[e-mail] (Dan Bernstein) writes:
>
>>>Does Borland still sell Sprint?
>
>>Yes.  We even support it.
>
>Ahem!  According to what I've read on the BORAPP Forum on CompuServe,
>Borland has decided that the finest text editor / text formatter
>available for personal computers is not part of their "strategic
>direction" (or words to that effect), and that there is *NO* ongoing
>work being done on Sprint.

I won't comment publically on development of Sprint, since I have nothing
to do with that.  However, as far as I know, we *are* still selling and
supporting it.  The main problem with Sprint -- from my point of view --
is that it is exactly what you say it is: an editor and formatter.  I
believe that had Borland decided to sell it as that rather than as a word
processor, it would have had more success.  But that's in the past.

>My father is writing a book.  I recommended that he buy a cheap PC and
>Sprint and let me train his typist to use the basic features.  I would
>come in later and fix up the formatting.  (An easy process, since
>Sprint is not (yuck!) WYSIWYG.)  Instead, he decided to hire someone
>who already owned a PC.  She is using Word Perfect.  I continually
>hear horrer stories from him about "things she says cannot be done"
>which I know are like "falling off a log" in Sprint.

Hmmmmm.....sounds like she doesn't know WordPerfect very well..... of course,
it would be dead simple to write a Sprint macro......
--

                           --- Aahz
                               @netcom.uucp  (or apple!netcom!aahz)

"The meek shall inherit the earth -- 6'x6'x3'"
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
"You can have peace.  Or you can have freedom.  Don't ever count on having
    both at once."
"I'm not stupid, I'm not expendable, and I'm not going."
26-Jan-91 07:11:45-MST,1457;000000000000
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Date: 25 Jan 91 21:27:02 GMT
From: ncis.tis.llnl.gov!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!cc.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Sprint
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Since I noticed a discussion of Sprint going on here, I thought I would
jump in with a question.

A long time ago I bought a copy of Sprint to play with and, noticing that
it claimed to support a VT100, I attempted to install it to run on my
DEC Rainbow. It seemed to run fine on a PC that was driving a VT100, but
I could never get the thing to come up on the Rainbow; it just printed a
row of H's or something like that and died.

Comments?
--
===============================================================================
Roger Ivie

35 S 300 W
Logan, Ut.  84321
[phone]
===============================================================================
28-Jan-91 00:15:18-MST,2015;000000000000
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Date: 28 Jan 91 05:51:08 GMT
From: magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!mintaka!ogicse!plains![e-mail]  (Brett G. Person)
Organization: North Dakota State University, Fargo
Subject: Re: Sprint
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>A long time ago I bought a copy of Sprint to play with and, noticing that
>it claimed to support a VT100, I attempted to install it to run on my
>DEC Rainbow. It seemed to run fine on a PC that was driving a VT100, but
>I could never get the thing to come up on the Rainbow; it just printed a
>row of H's or something like that and died.
>
>Comments?
>--
  Never noticed anything about vt100 compatibility, and dont have my manuals
here, but...
   My guess is that there would have been a vt100 user interface file for
it.  Sprint is full of undocumented "features" like this, so it could be
some secret command hidden somewhere.
   You've got me curious, I may need to shuffle through the distribution
disks tonight...
   My other quick guess would be that there is a command somewhere in the
sprint macro language for this purpose.  Don't ask me where to look for it
though.

If you find out, let me know.
--
Brett G. Person
North Dakota State University
uunet!plains!person | [e-mail] | [e-mail]
30-Jan-91 06:32:55-MST,2595;000000000000
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Date: 29 Jan 91 15:25:58 GMT
From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!cc.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sprint
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brett G. Person) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>>A long time ago I bought a copy of Sprint to play with and, noticing that
>>it claimed to support a VT100, I attempted to install it to run on my
>>DEC Rainbow. It seemed to run fine on a PC that was driving a VT100, but
>>I could never get the thing to come up on the Rainbow; it just printed a
>>row of H's or something like that and died.
>    My guess is that there would have been a vt100 user interface file for
> it.  Sprint is full of undocumented "features" like this, so it could be
> some secret command hidden somewhere.

There is a VT100 entry in the screen part of the installation; I used that.
That's not the problem. Like I said, it works just fine if I have a PC clone
that I've got a VT100 hung off, or running something like ANSI.SYS or
FANSI-console.

Silly me presumed, however, that if I fixed the screen thing it would be able
to run on a non-clone like the Rainbow. The Rainbow's about as non-clone as
you can get--the floppy controller is managed by a Z80, for instance. The
screen on a Rainbow is a VT100-compatible terminal emulation; since the
Rainbow is a DEC machine, the terminal emulation is very VT100-compatible.
Since the thing works on a VT100 hung off a PC, I assumed it would work on
the Rainbow.

Nope! There is apparently some other PC-specific thing in Sprint. I'm looking
for hints on what it might be.
--
===============================================================================
Roger Ivie

35 S 300 W
Logan, Ut.  84321
[phone]
===============================================================================
 5-Jan-91 05:41:26-MST,883;000000000000
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Date: 5 Jan 91 01:13:02 GMT
From: magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu![e-mail]  (Ann M. Chozinski)
Organization: The Ohio State University (IRCC)
Subject: Define
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What is this newsgroup all about???   Curious Annie

[e-mail]
 7-Jan-91 18:46:11-MST,2620;000000000000
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Date: 8 Jan 91 00:40:13 GMT
From: mcdchg![e-mail]  (Ron Heiby)
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Schaumburg, IL
Subject: Re: Define
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Way back in the "Golden Age" of personal computing, there was an
operating system called CP/M, which later was renamed CP/M-80 (to
avoid confusion with CP/M-86 and CP/M-68K).  On CP/M-80, were
available three wonderful software packages.  One was a C compiler
called "BDS C" (from BD Software).  One was a text editor called
"MINCE" (MINCE Is Not Complete Emacs).  The third was a text formatter
called "Scribble" (a subset of Scribe).  The latter two programs were
from "Mark of the Unicorn".  All three were available seperately.  All
three were available bundled (with much of the source for
Mince/Scribble in BDS-C) into package called "Amethyst".  As the
"Golden Age" was ending, and IBM came out with their "PC",
Mince/Scribble were combined and enhanced into a package called
"FinalWord".  An even more enhanced version called "FinalWord II" came
out a while later.  A year or two after that, the rights to the
program were sold to Borland, who turned it into their product called
"Sprint".  Now, Borland has announced that they have no plans to
continue to upgrade, enhance, or fix Sprint any further.  Some
discussion has been taking place on CompuServe about what should be
done.  It would be truly sad to see such a fine and powerful package
finally die for lack of interest.

As to this newsgroup - there probably is no longer any point.  I doubt
that there are many Amethyst users still actively using CP/M-80.  I
file transferred all of my Mince/Scribble/BDS-C software to MS-DOS
floppies just before de-commissioning my CP/M-80 system, just in case.
In another 5-10 years, I'll probably stop bothering to keep even
those.
--
Ron Heiby, [e-mail]    Moderator: comp.newprod
"Give me voice mail or give me drugs!"/"Mandatory Drug Testing? Just Say NO!!!"
12-Jan-91 09:37:05-MST,855;000000000000
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Date: Sat, 12 Jan 91 00:18:38 EST
From: Marvin Minsky <[e-mail]>
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Cc: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: Ron Heiby's message of 8 Jan 91 00:40:13 GMT <[e-mail]>
Subject: Define

Sob.  I did not know about the existence of Sprint.  How can one get a
copy.  I used Final Word for a long time, and most of "The Society of
Mind" was written in it.  When I switched to Macs, I switched to Word.
Does Borland still sell Sprint?
17-Jan-91 12:13:18-MST,1594;000000000000
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Date: 17 Jan 91 17:24:50 GMT
From: amdahl!netcom![e-mail]  (Dan Bernstein)
Organization: Netcom- The Bay Area's Public Access Unix System {408 241-9760 guest}
Subject: Re: Define
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Marvin Minsky) writes:
>Sob.  I did not know about the existence of Sprint.  How can one get a
>copy.  I used Final Word for a long time, and most of "The Society of
>Mind" was written in it.  When I switched to Macs, I switched to Word.
>Does Borland still sell Sprint?

Yes.  We even support it.
--

                           --- Aahz
                               @netcom.uucp  (or apple!netcom!aahz)

    "This is the third stage of human social evolution.  First we had
the legs race.  Then we had the arms race.  Now we're going to have the
brain race.
    "And, if we're lucky, the final stage will be the human race."
23-Jan-91 17:13:15-MST,1861;000000000000
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Date: 23 Jan 91 22:10:56 GMT
From: mcdchg![e-mail]  (Ron Heiby)
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Schaumburg, IL
Subject: Re: Define
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[e-mail] (Dan Bernstein) writes:

>>Does Borland still sell Sprint?

>Yes.  We even support it.

Ahem!  According to what I've read on the BORAPP Forum on CompuServe,
Borland has decided that the finest text editor / text formatter
available for personal computers is not part of their "strategic
direction" (or words to that effect), and that there is *NO* ongoing
work being done on Sprint.

My father is writing a book.  I recommended that he buy a cheap PC and
Sprint and let me train his typist to use the basic features.  I would
come in later and fix up the formatting.  (An easy process, since
Sprint is not (yuck!) WYSIWYG.)  Instead, he decided to hire someone
who already owned a PC.  She is using Word Perfect.  I continually
hear horrer stories from him about "things she says cannot be done"
which I know are like "falling off a log" in Sprint.
--
Ron Heiby, [e-mail]    Moderator: comp.newprod
"Wrong is wrong, even when it helps you." Popeye
24-Jan-91 08:09:33-MST,2777;000000000000
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Date: 24 Jan 91 11:36:09 GMT
From: olivea!oliveb!amdahl!netcom![e-mail]  (Dan Bernstein)
Organization: Perv
Subject: Re: Define
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ron Heiby) writes:
>[e-mail] (Dan Bernstein) writes:
>
>>>Does Borland still sell Sprint?
>
>>Yes.  We even support it.
>
>Ahem!  According to what I've read on the BORAPP Forum on CompuServe,
>Borland has decided that the finest text editor / text formatter
>available for personal computers is not part of their "strategic
>direction" (or words to that effect), and that there is *NO* ongoing
>work being done on Sprint.

I won't comment publically on development of Sprint, since I have nothing
to do with that.  However, as far as I know, we *are* still selling and
supporting it.  The main problem with Sprint -- from my point of view --
is that it is exactly what you say it is: an editor and formatter.  I
believe that had Borland decided to sell it as that rather than as a word
processor, it would have had more success.  But that's in the past.

>My father is writing a book.  I recommended that he buy a cheap PC and
>Sprint and let me train his typist to use the basic features.  I would
>come in later and fix up the formatting.  (An easy process, since
>Sprint is not (yuck!) WYSIWYG.)  Instead, he decided to hire someone
>who already owned a PC.  She is using Word Perfect.  I continually
>hear horrer stories from him about "things she says cannot be done"
>which I know are like "falling off a log" in Sprint.

Hmmmmm.....sounds like she doesn't know WordPerfect very well..... of course,
it would be dead simple to write a Sprint macro......
--

                           --- Aahz
                               @netcom.uucp  (or apple!netcom!aahz)

"The meek shall inherit the earth -- 6'x6'x3'"
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
"You can have peace.  Or you can have freedom.  Don't ever count on having
    both at once."
"I'm not stupid, I'm not expendable, and I'm not going."
26-Jan-91 07:11:45-MST,1457;000000000000
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Date: 25 Jan 91 21:27:02 GMT
From: ncis.tis.llnl.gov!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!cc.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Sprint
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Since I noticed a discussion of Sprint going on here, I thought I would
jump in with a question.

A long time ago I bought a copy of Sprint to play with and, noticing that
it claimed to support a VT100, I attempted to install it to run on my
DEC Rainbow. It seemed to run fine on a PC that was driving a VT100, but
I could never get the thing to come up on the Rainbow; it just printed a
row of H's or something like that and died.

Comments?
--
===============================================================================
Roger Ivie

35 S 300 W
Logan, Ut.  84321
[phone]
===============================================================================
28-Jan-91 00:15:18-MST,2015;000000000000
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Date: 28 Jan 91 05:51:08 GMT
From: magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!mintaka!ogicse!plains![e-mail]  (Brett G. Person)
Organization: North Dakota State University, Fargo
Subject: Re: Sprint
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>A long time ago I bought a copy of Sprint to play with and, noticing that
>it claimed to support a VT100, I attempted to install it to run on my
>DEC Rainbow. It seemed to run fine on a PC that was driving a VT100, but
>I could never get the thing to come up on the Rainbow; it just printed a
>row of H's or something like that and died.
>
>Comments?
>--
  Never noticed anything about vt100 compatibility, and dont have my manuals
here, but...
   My guess is that there would have been a vt100 user interface file for
it.  Sprint is full of undocumented "features" like this, so it could be
some secret command hidden somewhere.
   You've got me curious, I may need to shuffle through the distribution
disks tonight...
   My other quick guess would be that there is a command somewhere in the
sprint macro language for this purpose.  Don't ask me where to look for it
though.

If you find out, let me know.
--
Brett G. Person
North Dakota State University
uunet!plains!person | [e-mail] | [e-mail]
30-Jan-91 06:32:55-MST,2595;000000000000
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Date: 29 Jan 91 15:25:58 GMT
From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!cc.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sprint
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brett G. Person) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>>A long time ago I bought a copy of Sprint to play with and, noticing that
>>it claimed to support a VT100, I attempted to install it to run on my
>>DEC Rainbow. It seemed to run fine on a PC that was driving a VT100, but
>>I could never get the thing to come up on the Rainbow; it just printed a
>>row of H's or something like that and died.
>    My guess is that there would have been a vt100 user interface file for
> it.  Sprint is full of undocumented "features" like this, so it could be
> some secret command hidden somewhere.

There is a VT100 entry in the screen part of the installation; I used that.
That's not the problem. Like I said, it works just fine if I have a PC clone
that I've got a VT100 hung off, or running something like ANSI.SYS or
FANSI-console.

Silly me presumed, however, that if I fixed the screen thing it would be able
to run on a non-clone like the Rainbow. The Rainbow's about as non-clone as
you can get--the floppy controller is managed by a Z80, for instance. The
screen on a Rainbow is a VT100-compatible terminal emulation; since the
Rainbow is a DEC machine, the terminal emulation is very VT100-compatible.
Since the thing works on a VT100 hung off a PC, I assumed it would work on
the Rainbow.

Nope! There is apparently some other PC-specific thing in Sprint. I'm looking
for hints on what it might be.
--
===============================================================================
Roger Ivie

35 S 300 W
Logan, Ut.  84321
[phone]
===============================================================================