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Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 121. 11-06-89 9:11.04 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Doug Purdy To: Doug Mair Subject: RUN BBS 603-924-9704 ALSO SEE: 115. I've got Nov, Oct and Sept issues of RUN. No wonder I couldn't find the number if it's hidden in the letters to the editor! I'll take a look too. Thanks! Doug Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 122. 11-06-89 9:14.43 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Doug Purdy To: Chris Schmidt Subject: CP/M ON THE 1581 ALSO SEE: 116, 125. CP/M's faster on the 1581 than the 1571. The big plus with the 1571 is that you can do things like buy used software super cheap on another disk format (another CP/M type machine) and with Jugg'ler 128 you could tranfer it or use it as is. You also get to transfer back and forth from MS-DOS disks with a PD program. I don't really need a CP/M word processor as I bought WordPerfect for MS-DOS back when I had my own business - our clients were using WordPerfect and it wasn't as easy to transfer things back and forth then. Now, however, ZDE in CP/M would handle 99.99% of my needs. If I had to do heavy duty writing and owned a C128, I would probably use PaperClip as I used it for years in business. What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get is a great help though, as is the ability to handle documents of any length. I would take a serious look at WordStar as you could probably run the whole thing including document in the REU where it would be very fast. It wouldn't be too bad on the 1581 either, but I suspect a large document on the 1571 would get extremely slow. PaperClip III comes with a spell checker, is Wordstar's included in the price of the package? "Mail merge" may be extra for Wordstar but other wordprocessors usually include it. Last, there is probably quite a difference between WordStar 2 and WordStar 4, the current version, I think. Gerry Moss sent away for the current version recently and may soon be able to tell us about it. Another plus for WordStar, it would be very easy to transfer files to the office. Most if not all of the formatting would probably translate too. In WordPerfect, you use an included program called CONVERT to go back and forth from Wordstar. Trans128.com or TRANS12C.LBR ? here is a PD program that transfers files on a 1571 CP/M <--> MS-DOS. Doug Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 123. 11-06-89 9:43.44 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Doug Purdy To: Howard Herman Subject: BTP, BBR ALSO SEE: 117, 160. Hi Howie, Sounds like Bob's Term Pro 128 has a lot of features I don't know about either. One of the interesting points about BTP is that it can tranfer files directly to/from C128 CP/M disks, which helps you avoid the mass of floppies you get when you're using, say, PaperClip III to d/l CP/M files to native C128, then using RDCBM to bring them into CP/M - you end up with twice the number of floppies. I own Big Blue Reader, but mine's the very old version. I hated having to type in individual file names so much I never bought the new version - I just didn't trust the programmer after a number of times having to transfer many files CBM <--> MS-DOS and finding I had to deal with each file one at a time. Turned a half hour job into a day's work! It's not STILL like that is it? If it is, it's much faster to do it with RS232 (manhour wise, if not in machine hours). Doug Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 124. 11-06-89 9:59.51 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Doug Purdy To: Doug Mair Subject: FILES ON RUN BBS ALSO SEE: 119. Thanks VERY much Doug! It seems like the idea of some of us buying their monthly disks and sharing them here may not work then. If they don't even put their files on their own bbs! Maybe it can be done at a reasonable cost through Q-Link, but then we may find a clause saying you can't upload anywhere else. The only programs I ever typed in were way back when I first started computing, SpeedScript was an exception, but that quality is unusual. I've never bought one of their disks, though friends have given me a copy here and there - actually I don't think I still have any around as most magazine programs somehow don't seem to get used around here very often - does the word "vaporware" apply? I'm in a bit of a quandry. I hate copy protection! But if I don't follow the licensor's wishes, how can I ever expect copy protection to stop? My personal view is that it would be good for magazines if their programs were freely available on bbses - I think more people would buy the magazines. If I find that I can't convince them, I guess I would have to respect their wishes. But it burns me to know that out of the $10-15 I would pay for any disk, 50% of that would go for unnecessary costs. Costs that could be avoided if would be paid for by increased subscriptions -->extra advertising revenue? these things were availabl on local bbses. Maybe most of the rest I will have to discuss this with the magazines soon. Doug P.S. Line editor fun - last 2 lines ofthe paragraph above are in the wrong order. Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 125. 11-08-89 13:13.52 (NO KILL) From: John Milligan To: Doug Purdy Subject: CP/M ON THE 1581/WORDSTAR ALSO SEE: 122. Quick Addendum to the notes on CP/M - WOrdStar WordStar Release 4.0 DOES have a spell-checker ( and some other neat dictionary related programs - but no thesaurus) Also included is a (powerful) mail merge feature. John M. Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 126. 11-10-89 21:53.02 From: Doug Mair To: Doug Purdy Subject: Q-LINK C128 LIST Finally got the above copied and popped it in the mail tonight. Hope it proves useful as a reference for you as to what C128 PD software is available. I'll be pulling the plug on Q-link at the end of this month, so if you see any prgm that you might be interested in let me know before then and I can either obtain the info or D/load it for you. The above list as you will see provides little other than title, U/loader and general category. On-line you can find prgm descriptions, prgm length and sometimes comments from people who have D/loaded the particular prgm. *DOUG* Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 127. 11-11-89 17:32.07 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Doug Purdy To: Chris Schmidt Subject: CPM ALSO SEE: 133. =====[ Canada Remote Systems 232 ]=====[ 11-11-89 ]=====[ 17:13.10 ]===== Date: 11-07-89 (11:48) MAIN Number: 21111 (Echo) To: DOUG PURDY From: cbmvax.commodore.com!fred Read: NO Subj: MAY 87 CPM+.SYS Status: RECEIVER ONLY From utcsri!cbmvax.commodore.com!fred Thu Nov 9 14:17:26 1989 remote from tmsoft Received: from tmsoft.uucp by masnet.fidonet.org (MaS-Relayer) via localphone with Uucp; Fri, 10 Nov 89 2:18:15 EST Received: by tmsoft.UUCP (smail2.3) id AA22242; 9 Nov 89 14:17:26 EST (Thu) Received: from rutgers.edu (-:RUTGERS.EDU:-) by yonge.csri.toronto.edu via TCP with SMTP id AA22362; Tue, 7 Nov 89 18:55:02 EST Received: from cbmvax.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.2/3.04) with UUCP id AA15373; Tue, 7 Nov 89 18:54:49 EST Received: by cbmvax.UUCP (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 12/21/87)) id AA08765; Tue, 7 Nov 89 14:48:09 EST Date: Tue, 7 Nov 89 14:48:09 EST From: cbmvax.commodore.com!fred (Fred Bowen) Message-Id: <8911071948.AA08765@cbmvax.UUCP> Subject: Re: MAY 87 CPM+.SYS > A user on my hobby bbs at Toronto, Ontario, Canada uploaded the May '87 > CPM+.SYS file for Commodore 128 CP/M, the BIOS that understands the > Commodore 1581 disk drive. > > QUESTION 1: Can I make the May 28 '87 CPM+.SYS available to my users? I have been asked this many times, and have been over the issues involved with both our legal people and DRI. Commodore's hands are tied- the BIOS contains DRI copyrighted code, and DRI has not allowed Commodore to distribute it without a license and royalty payment for each copy. Therefore, no, you cannot make it available to your users. I personally think the situation stinks, but it's not my code and therefore not my decision to make. > He said that this file was available on Compuserve on the basis that it > is only useful to C128 owners whose basic CP/M licence was included in > the price of their machine. Another user believes the cost of this > CPM+.SYS is not included in the 1581 and that we must pay for it. This is incorrect. I was told some time ago the code was on Compuserve. I informed the legal department, who instructed the telcom department to have Compuserve remove it. To my knowledge they did so. > QUESTION 2: Do we need to pay for the May 28 '87 CPM+.SYS? Yes- because Commodore must make royalty payments to DRI. > I understand FOG (First Osborne Group) also has something to enable C128 > owners to use their 1581 disk drives in CP/M mode, but it could be a > patch or the genuine CPM+.SYS from Commodore. The file on > Compuserve may be the genuine file. I spoke to FOG about the same time I heard about the Compuserve upload. They were told they could NOT distribute it. There are patches available which allow one to use a 1581, and I suspect this is what FOG has available. > As two of my users have described long delays in getting the May '87 > CPM+.SYS file from West Chester, I would like to get permission to make > it freely available to users of my bbs, and members of Canada Remote > Systems Limited BBS, and TPUG users group's disk sales and bbs. I keep kicking the service group over the delays. I have not heard any compaints in a long time, but I'm not naive enough to think the problem has gone away. I'll check on it again. Regarding permission to distribute it, I'll reluctantly raise the issue with the legal department one more time, but I'm sure it will come down to the fact it's DRI's copyright and DRI's decision. > QUESTION 3: Can we get permission to make available free, or at a cost? The problem is that each copy must be serialized and reported to DRI. Since DRI has "discontinued" support for CP/M, perhaps this policy has changed. > QUESTION 4: Is there anything on your 3.5" disk but the new CPM+.SYS, > FORMAT.COM and the DRI offer files which many of us already > purchased? The diskette is full. It contains 4 user areas containing utilities, assembler, etc., and sundry source code for the CBM stuff. I'm sorry if this does not sound encouraging- I'm probably just as frustrated as you and the users! Fred Bowen uucp: {uunet|rutgers|pyramid}!cbmvax!fred arpa: cbmvax!fred@uunet.uu.net tele: 215 431-9100 Commodore Electronics, Ltd., 1200 Wilson Drive, West Chester, PA,19380 --- * Via MaSNet/HST96/HST144/V32 - Private EMail * Via Usenet Newsgroup PRIVATE Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 129. 11-12-89 9:38.55 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Ray Whidden To: Ken Poulton Subject: CP/M ON THE C128 ALSO SEE: 100. Hi Ken, Re: terminal still locks up... Please leave me a message with more information on this problem. I cannot remember whether I use the script read feature of MEX and if I did, I have had some experience with that locking up. Otherwise, MEX has been mostly trouble free, except with a problem common to MEX & IMP: I do not get error free message base saves to disk/Ramdisk. Somewhere along the line it looks like the slowness of the C=128 just allows the terminal to get hopelessly confused and I have to kill the save. QTERM128 pretty well solves that problem with one remaining annoyance: the Control -S's that tell the host to wait seem to be saved in the buffer/file as well. That means I have edit them out but at least I get a usable file. Failing that, I use Dialogue VERSION 1.0 as even version 2.0 fails on message buffer saves to my 512KB buffer with 1670. Seems to work OK with a GVC2400 so must have something to do with the old 1670 I have. Short saves to a smaller buffer seem OK. Regards, Ray Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 130. 11-12-89 9:46.08 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Ray Whidden To: Gerry Moss Subject: Z-SYSTEM ALSO SEE: 102, 143. Hi Gerry, Let me know your impressions when you get Z3Plus. I think you will be pleased. What machine will you be running it on, as well as the configuration: Ramdisk, disk drives, etc.? Thanks for the GEnie files. However, I just D/L and found them to be in C= PETASCII so had to go through the hassle of shipping them over to a CBM disk to convert them to ASCII. I don'T kt know of any CP/M utility tha t converts files in CP/M mode from CBM/PETASCII to ASCII. Big Blue Reader and RDCBM do the conversion on the way from CBM to CP/M. To cause less grief to others, either do the conversion (if you can) at your end OR label the files in the filename or file description as being PETASCII rather than ASCII. Otherwise, there is plenty of good stuff in the three files and I see others in the C=128 and C areas. Much appreciated. Will be making up a wish list for either Doug or CRS. Regards, Ray Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 131. 11-12-89 9:52.42 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Ray Whidden To: Doug Purdy Subject: MEX DOC FILE ALSO SEE: 105, 138. Hi Doug, I have a couple of utilities for the problem you are describing : high bits set by WS and splitting large files. Frankly, those are two reasons I am also going to get WS4.0 as I have gone through the process of splitting files into VDE/ZDE size bites, editting and rejoining but the last time I might of done that was with SD138B.ASM and I just dug out my copy of WS2.26. Within minutes, the file was changed, assembled and working; without all the hassle. Regards, Ray Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 132. 11-12-89 10:00.10 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Ray Whidden To: Joe Janakovic Subject: 1581 -> IBM ALSO SEE: 114, 149. Hi Joe, Several people I know have Big Blue Reader 128 ver 2.x and like it very much. It is reasonably priced order directly from Sogwap/Mike Miller but Briwall sell for about $10-15.00 ($US) cheaper. Delivery from Sogwap is less than two weeks. The only problem is disks formatted on a 1581 cannot be read on a IBM PS/2 Model 50 but disks formatted on the IBM could be written to by the C=128 with BBR128 and read by the IBM. Not a real big problem. Also, the format for 5.25/3.5" disks does NOT write MS-DOS boot tracks OR the three files needed to boot from a PC disk. These are intended for work disks only. Thus, if you have a PC program like Quick C, which expects to find a copy of COMMAND.COM (like CP/M CCP.COM) you have to copy it separately, unlike the IBM format, which puts them there automatically if you say FORMAT A: /S to say you want system files. Version 3.0 is being advertised in recent copies of Commodore magazines: RUN or COMPUTE!'s Gazette and supports IBM sub-directories. I am ordering DosDisk from Jay Sage, to permit me to read/write etc IBM disks as if they were native disks in CP/M mode. The same as MG Juggler does for hundreds of other CP/M formats. Will let you know how it works. Regards, Ray For ordering info for BBR128, see any recent C= magazine or leave me a message. Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 134. 11-13-89 13:26.41 (RECV'D) From: John Milligan To: Doug Purdy Subject: FILE DESCRIPTION ALSO SEE: 140. Hi Doug, I uploaded a file - WS4COL.ARK - and before I could enter a file description, I found myself looking at the CP/M prompt. (Damn MEX!) The file seems to be there but n o description - can this be added in? It should say : Patch colors etc. for Wordstar 4 on C128 (or something like that) John M. Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 136. 11-13-89 18:14.34 From: Ralph Schwarz To: All Subject: CP/M TO CBM? ALSO SEE: 144. Hi! Is there any known PD utility that will take a CP/M text file, and allow me to put it on a CBM disk? I know Xlink is such a utility, but this file that I have is about 140K, where Xlink only can handle 45K. I got some text on an IBM disk, which I transferred to CP/M, then to get it to work on GEOS, I would like to convert it to CBM format (ie. disk). Thanks for the help! :) TTYL, Ralph! Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 138. 11-14-89 9:57.59 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Doug Purdy To: Ray Whidden Subject: MEX DOC FILE ALSO SEE: 131, 147. I think I hear you saying that it takes a lot of time to split the files and change the WS high bits. So long thatit alone makes it worth it to buy WS 4? Doug - I think the strike has gone on too long - the term may be cancelled! Good thing your course is at night - night courses were not affected. Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 139. 11-14-89 10:03.16 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Doug Purdy To: Ray Whidden Subject: CPM ALSO SEE: 133. Fred Bowen does actually seem to be interested in the C128 and tries to help from what I've seen. Not sure about the rest of the folks at Commodore. Guess we should be careful not to drive Fred crazy with trivial questions though. Doug Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 140. 11-14-89 10:08.53 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Doug Purdy To: John Milligan Subject: FILE DESCRIPTION ALSO SEE: 134, 145. I will add the file decscription. It's not much trouble - there's a sysop's tools package that makes this easy - especially when you've given me the description the file should have. Figuring that out is the hard part, not typing the description. Thanks for the file, Doug Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 141. 11-14-89 10:29.58 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Doug Purdy To: Chris Schmidt Subject: 1571 ALSO SEE: 156. Congrats on the new 1571! With that and the 1581 you'll be in great shape for CP/M and GEOS. Doug Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 142. 11-14-89 21:02.03 (NO KILL) From: Doug Purdy To: All Subject: C128 BBS FEATURES SURVEY Copied from: =====[ TPUG ]=====[ 11-13-89 ]=====[ 11:39.35 ]===== Msg # : 577 of 585 - Ref 35521 From : MICHAEL E. MILYAN (+3) To : ALL Rec'd : 0043h on 11-Nov-89 * TPUG Subject: Commodore 128 Owners?! Base : C128 Node : Toronto, ONT Mailed : 2340h on 10-Nov-89 * EastYork Hello All I was wondering how many users out there have a Commodore 128 or 128D and are either running a BBS off it or are interested on running a board? Also, how many would run a board if they could get software which ran as fast as PC PunterNet and had just as many features for the 128? What features would you look for in a 128 Mode BBS program? Any Comments? Michael ----- The East York BBS - Toronto, ONT * Node 3 Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 143. 11-14-89 22:50.10 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Gerry Moss To: Ray Whidden Subject: Z-SYSTEM ALSO SEE: 130, 148. Sorry about the ASCII/PETASCII mixup. It was late and I lost track of what I was doing. It won't happen again! I am just now getting to reading the ZCPR docs and help files. I also got the BDS C v1.6 and BDS Z v2.0 C compiler systems at the same time. Along with that I got a subscription to The Computer Journal, first issue arrived today, with columns by Jay Sage, and Bridger Mitchell. Have to read it yet. Z-system looks great at first impression. I'll give you more in-depth feedback later. Regards, Gerry Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 144. 11-14-89 23:11.34 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Gerry Moss To: Ralph Schwarz Subject: CP/M TO CBM? ALSO SEE: 136, 157. Ralph, if you have a 1750 REU, there is a file here in file area #11, called RDREU128.ARC, that will do the job for you. I have d/l it and can vouch for it. I was frustrated by the same size barrier as you. It lets you load the text file into the CP/M ram disk M: and then you reboot to native 128 mode, run a Basic prg, and voila! you can get the file out of the REU. Hope this helps. Regards, Gerry Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 147. 11-17-89 11:18.39 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Ray Whidden To: Doug Purdy Subject: MEX DOC FILE ALSO SEE: 138, 154, 155. Hi Doug, Re: splitting files/stripping WS high bits It's not that it really takes a lot of time, even with a 100KB + file. It's just the age old computer junky complaint, if there's a nicer/elegant solution, use it. WordStar is a virtual memory program, that reads a file as big as the two disks you have (if you're using one drive, them up to ABOUT 1/2 the size of a disk - you have to leave some room for adding a few characters!!!). WS a:file1.ext b: reads the file from A: and writes the new file on B:. No other word processing program for the Commodore 8-bit machines does that. I've done both and have decided to spring for WS4. I see the other day, the government stepped in. Looked pretty much normal at classes on Wed night. Sorta like the TTC strike with not much being settled but I understand why you had to go out. Nice to see the extra HD drive on the system. Will have to get to work adding some CP/M stuff. I see some others have ordered Z3Plus. Are you interested? I've ordered DosDisk, like Jugg'ler, but adds MS-Dos R/W capability as if it was a native CP/M format so I install it and DIR rather than running TRANS128. Will let you know how it works. Needed something to move files back and forth for the C course. Regards, Ray Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 148. 11-17-89 11:29.36 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Ray Whidden To: Gerry Moss Subject: Z-SYSTEM ALSO SEE: 143, 150. Hi Gerry, Re: received software Must feel a bit like Christmas arrived early!!! Must order The Computer Journal myself. Ordered DosDisk so I can more conveniently move files from MS-Dos <--> CP/M for a C course I'm taking in which we use Quick C on PC's at Centennial College/Progress. Will post a message when I've had a chance to use it. Let us know about the BDS C packages. If I can help with Z3+, let me know. I've got an alias to compile/ASM/Link my Aztec C programs that has IFs and ELSEs. Also, have some files that work with ENV variables. Lots to try. Regards, Ray Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 150. 11-18-89 1:15.52 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Gerry Moss To: Ray Whidden Subject: Z-SYSTEM ALSO SEE: 148, 175. Thanks for the help offer, Ray. I've d/l some Z-System help files ffrom CRS. Can you point out some good Z-System p/d utilities I should have? All I have right now is the purchased package. Jay Sage runs a Z-System conference on GEnie the first Wednesday of the month at 10 pm; I had to miss the last one (out of twon on business), but plan to attend the December one with lots of questions. Regards, Gerry Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128 Msg No: 151. 11-19-89 3:43.37 (NO KILL) (RECV'D) From: Doug Purdy To: John Milligan Subject: FILE DESCRIPTION ALSO SEE: 145, 168. No, John, still not sure how to handle files for registered users. I've been working on the Call Thru thing as CRS asked me to start this a long time ago and I don't want to keep them waiting forever. I don't think there's any good way to handle file areas like there is message areas - message areas can be set so that people have to apply to get in, then be approved by the sysop, before they have access to a particular message base. This would be ideal for registered users of commercial software, but I don't think I can set file areas to act like this. There are other ways though. We could use the message areas and uuencoded files left as messages, but this is cumbersome. Still there may be ways to set the files so you don't have to see them even though they are there - when you read the message you wouldn't see anything but the header. Then you could uudecode it here and download it. Sounds too tricky though - too confusing and problems setting it up. It would be secure against most hackers though, by the confusion, if not by the rest of the security. Encryption could make it absolutely secure but still more confusing. Another way would be to leave the files in the normal areas but have the special message areas with the encryption passwords. The files of course would be encrypted and only those with access to the message areas could decrypt the files. Perhaps this is the best way, at least it isn't too confusing, and the special message area could help for those who get confused. Actually all encrypted files should probably be left in a special area so people don't waste their time downloading stuff they'll never be able to use. Is this clear enough for you to tell me what you think? Doug