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These messages were extracted from recent conversations in the CompuServe SHAREWARE forum. They describe numerous reasons why shareware authors should apply for membership in the Association of Shareware Professionals. Some replies may have been deleted if they were deemed irrelevant to the main thrust of the conversation. Other than that, no editing is performed on the messages you see here. Most opinions are of a personal nature and they might not reflect the official views of the Association of Shareware Professionals. (However, some members in the ASP can and do speak in an official capacity.) Uploaded by Rob Rosenberger, CompuServe SHAREWARE forum sysop, 27 Nov 89. Appended Why Join Thread by George Abbott on 01 Jan 91. ============================================= #: 66944 S9/Potential Authors 31-Oct-89 19:23:02 Sb: #Welcome to section 9 Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664 To: all Hi! On behalf of the Association of Shareware Professionals (ASP), I'm pleased to welcome you to this section. If you are thinking about distributing a program as shareware, just starting out or contemplating joining ASP, ask away as you wish. We have lots of members monitoring this section and I'm sure you'll get useful advice. Thanks for dropping by. Come again soon. Barry Simon ASP President #: 67005 S9/Potential Authors 01-Nov-89 17:13:56 Sb: #66944-#Welcome to section 9 Fm: Neil W Taylor 76704,70 To: Barry Simon 76004,1664 (X) Barryy, I just received a communication from Nelson Ford expessing interest in including some of my "shareware" products in the PsL. Actually, I knew that such "shareware" libraries existed, and that your association did too, but I've really wondered what the advantages/benefits of becoming an ASP member are. After reading all of the info contained on the PsL "Software Submission Disk"(ette), I get this overwhelming feeling that in order for shareware to have any real credibility, it should be authored by an ASP member. Although I condsider my software to be credible/useful/non-trivial, I suppose that there are advantages/benefits in becoming a member that don't really jump out and grab me. What are they? What kind of research or survey has been conducted of the ASP membership, showing conclusively that members fare better from having joined? I beleive that I will be applying for membership within the week if I am convinced. BTW, has anyone ever been rejected membership? I was just a little bit amused at the psychology behind some of the application's (cont'd) #: 67007 S9/Potential Authors 01-Nov-89 17:38:37 Sb: #67005-#Welcome to section 9 Fm: Neil W Taylor 76704,70 To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70 (X) wording. (wow, what a challenge to have my software judged by a _committee_ to be "non-trivial!"). Anyway, I just wanted to get some kind of feel for what's going on here. Thanks for your valuable time (do you ever rest? I see your articles _everywhere_!). And, thanks for your valuable comments on, and time spent looking at The Mail Machine this past August. We have spent considerable time implementing new features and addressing every one of comments/suggestions - beta for version 3.0 (major upgrade) is scheduled for 11/30; FCS 12/31. Also, we're being courted by a company w/ a bigger name and more mktg power to develop a private label version. When beta is ready, I'll ship you another copy (yet realizing your time constraints). Neil W Taylor TaxWare PO Box 2014 Provo, UT 84601 #: 67010 S9/Potential Authors 01-Nov-89 17:55:11 Sb: #67005-#Welcome to section 9 Fm: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344 To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70 As an ASP member, I can assure you there are definite advantages to being a member of the Association. I've "done lunch" with Jim Button and, let me tell you, I was all ears. I partied with Tom Smith about a month ago and he was brimming with insights about the shareware industry. The big boys are full of details about pitfalls they've discovered in shareware. I know where to get disks duplicated quick & cheap; I know where to buy labels; I know which disk vendors are unscrupulous; and I know which magazines I should send my products to for a potential national review. The ASP will host APCUG, the Association of PC User Groups, at COMDEX on November 13 in a "meet the authors" session. Presidents, secretaries, and newsletter editors from around the nation will be there to meet shareware authors. The ASP has also sent out hundreds of press invitations. Think of all the great publicity! (I understand there will be six drawings during the event. Winners will receive *more than two dozen* registered shareware products.) The ASP has also been fighting to keep the word "shareware" itself in the public domain. ASP has filed protests on three different continents to keep people from taking it as a trademark word. You can understand the obvious implications if you had to pay someone so you could advertise your products as "shareware." There are quite a few other things about ASP which make it worth joining. (I like to tell Turbo Pascal programmers how I used to worship Neil Rubenking until I joined!) Hope this gives you some information about the benefits of ASP. "Membership has its privileges." #: 67022 S9/Potential Authors 01-Nov-89 20:03:05 Sb: #67005-#Welcome to section 9 Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664 To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70 I'm VERY glad you asked. As of mid auguest we had about 160 author members; I'd guess that we reject about 30 applicants reaching that number. Recently we had a flurry and for whatever reason, there were 15 acceptances and 7 rejections. No idea if that is a fluctuation or not. The non-triviality rule is not there to dump on any program but to eliminate the applicant who writes a sorted directory lister and asks $20 for it - a form of what we call what-the-heck-ware. Our rule of thumb is "could one of us write it in a day". Rejection is only rarely for triviality ; it is most often for a form of crippling or for an unprofessional package. We try to work with applicants to explain our non-crippling policy and what would need to be done to meet it or to help make the program professional (e.g. please remove "if you use this program and don't pay, you will rot in hell"). ASP was founded to serve three purposes and there is a fourth one now; each gives you a benefit; some more than others. - to set standards for shareware authors and vendors - to educate users and in particular deal with some of the misleading advertising put out by some disk vendors - to pool information and serve as resources for each other - defacto, to "show the flag for shareware" There are some number of users who have had bad experiences with shareware connected most often with crippled programs or authors who don't respond to their mail. ASP directly addresses these issues and users have come to look for ASP membership as a kind of assurance of quality. One message on IBMAPP earlier this week complained about experiences with authors not responding to queries and end with "I've been stiffed like this before from shareware authors. However, I _can_ safely recommend any product from an ASP author." [More] #: 67023 S9/Potential Authors 01-Nov-89 20:03:30 Sb: #67022-#Welcome to section 9 Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664 To: Barry Simon 76004,1664 (X) [Continued] So one benefit is that by agreeing to our standards, you send a signal of substantialness to your perspective customers. We educate users with various files posted on BBS, discussions here and in our vendor program which has gotten many vendors to change their "free programs" tone. I was surprised to learn in dealing with some of these vendors that they were often being thoughtless rather than 'cheating' and were anxious to do things the right way. Of course, you get this benefit whether you join or not but this is something that the organization does that you support by your dues and decent software. Wanna know where to get mailers, duplicate disks, get printer codes,.... These issues are discussed in the private ASP sections and you get direct benefit of the experiences of others. Finally in the indirect category is that when a magazine gets confused a bout shareware, ASP writes a reply; when APCUG (national coalition of user's groups) wanted to meet shareware authors at Comdex they asked us to set something up and we did. This has a direct component as members will have an extra chance at exposure. No survey has been taken to prove the benfit of membership. I'm not sure how you'd measure that and frankly with limited resources, we've got better ways to spend them. I only write at this point for Personal Publishing and PC Mag and spend more time on ASP, and my 'real' job than on computer journalism and I do find time to work on my shareware program. As for time to rest, what's that <sigh>? - Barry #: 67032 S9/Potential Authors 01-Nov-89 21:22:04 Sb: #67005-Welcome to section 9 Fm: Paul Mayer (GRAB Plus) 70040,645 To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70 Neil; I guess I will jump in here again. Yes your submission will be gone over for triviality as well as for professionalism, error trapping and your support and such. The trivial rule is looked at from the stand point that could one of the members whip the same thing together in an afternoon or a day? Does the user interface allow for improper entries thus allowing the computer to lock up and such. We have had some rejection. However I have found that I worked harder trying to get these up to standards than on the others. If there is a possibility that with some rewording and recoding an applicant can come up to our standards I will assist as best I can. In the three words that stand for ASP the most important is "Professionals" and without a committee scrutinizing the applications the concept would never work. There are other thing involved also such as the way the applicant does business. Is he ethical? Does he give good support or does he just sit back and wait for the money without answering letters and calls? This last thing has become a touchy spot with me as Membership Coordinator. I feel if I try and contact an applicant and cannot get through how can the customers? Does the ASP work? <grin> Man has it ever for me! I have had so many fantastic opportunities to pick the brains of the best it is unbelievable! Jut the exposure I have had because of those three little letters behind my name <ASP> in our Associate Member Shareware Disk Vendors. Yea, this is where the turning point in my shareware business happened. - Paul #: 67036 S9/Potential Authors 01-Nov-89 22:14:00 Sb: #67022-#Welcome to section 9 Fm: steve estvanik 76703,3046 To: Barry Simon 76004,1664 (X) One question that comes up immediately -- is the review for ASP entry or is it continuous? Is there a procedure EACH program must pass? or does the acceptance initially grandfather subsequent products? Also, are there any guidelines for shareware products that are ALSO sold as retail products, directly? steve #: 67041 S9/Potential Authors 01-Nov-89 23:20:44 Sb: #67010-#Welcome to section 9 Fm: Frank LaRosa (SLBBS) 73040,2557 To: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344 (X) 1. Who is Neil Rubenking? 2. Why did you worship him before you joined? 3. Why do you no longer worship him? 4. Why is this of interest to Turbo Pascal Programmers? Just curious. I've always wanted to start a company called "Oat". Then I could put the words "Oat Brand" on everything I sold. People would line up for blocks to give me their money. #: 67042 S9/Potential Authors 01-Nov-89 23:27:42 Sb: #67007-#Welcome to section 9 Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664 To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70 Just a post script. You are known by the company you keep. You'll get flagged in vendor catalogs as an ASP member and you'll get a listing in the ASP catalog which appears in hundreds of BBSs. - Barry #: 67043 S9/Potential Authors 01-Nov-89 23:46:19 Sb: #67036-Welcome to section 9 Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664 To: steve estvanik 76703,3046 (X) The only REVIEW is at the time of acceptance but, except for non-triviality*, all members agree to abide by the requriements past and future. (Requirements can only be passed by 2/3 of those membership voting at a meeting announced by mail). There is something of an honor system although violation do tend to get reported and dealt with by the Ombudsman or the board. Usually, a discussion with an author about a problem is quickly resolved. I can't recall a single case where a member was removed although the bylaws give the board that power. I can recall one case where an author woud have been removed but he preferred to resign. *Non-triviality is not a requirement in the sense that no crippling or support it; rather, it is filter set up by the board to weed out unsubstantial authors. - Barry #: 67044 S9/Potential Authors 02-Nov-89 01:29:22 Sb: #67036-Welcome to section 9 Fm: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344 To: steve estvanik 76703,3046 (X) As I understand it, Steve, your program(s) are reviewed once to determine whether they meet the current membership requirements. ASP members agree to police themselves to make sure they *continue* to meet all ASP standards for the products they release as shareware. There may be a few bad apples who won't police themselves. That's why the ASP established an Ombudsman, so users can turn to a higher authority if a member fails to live up to standards. #: 67045 S9/Potential Authors 02-Nov-89 02:25:14 Sb: #67041-#Welcome to section 9 Fm: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344 To: Frank LaRosa (SLBBS) 73040,2557 1. You heathen! Everyone knows who Neil Rubenking is. <grin> Neil is a Turbo Pascal wizard. He wrote a number of articles for Borland's "Turbo Technix" magazine before it went under. You'll find his name splashed on all sorts of Pascal tips & hints in the Languages column of PC Magazine; he also edits the User-To-User column in that same journal. 2. I worshipped Neil because he knows so many undocumented things about Turbo Pascal. Not to mention he knows most of the programming shortcuts you can take without resorting to unstructured coding techniques. In the world of Pascal, Neil ranks right up there with Kim Kokkonen and Jeff Duntemann. 3. I no longer worship him simply because I've talked turkey with him too many times in the Association of Shareware Professionals. I finally figured out he had to learn Turbo Pascal like the rest of us -- from the ground up. (I got a message from him yesterday asking ME for advice about one of my own pieces of OOP code.) 4. It's of interest to Turbo Pascal programmers because many of them read Neil's articles. They'd love to shake his hand and tap into his brain. As an ASP author, there have been one or two occasions when I simply write to programmer X and say "hey, I'm an ASP guy just like you. Can you give me a hint on such-and-such?" ASP authors take care of their own. You have to be an ASP author to really appreciate that, I suppose... name-droppin' Rob #: 67052 S9/Potential Authors 02-Nov-89 08:50:35 Sb: #67023-#Welcome to section 9 Fm: Jim Button (PC-File) 76004,1532 To: Barry Simon 76004,1664 (X) It'll be a shame to see these brilliant replies scroll off after a while. Perhaps replies like this one could be immortalized as a downloadable file with a title like "reasons to join ASP." -Jim #: 67056 S9/Potential Authors 02-Nov-89 09:01:32 Sb: #67007-Welcome to section 9 Fm: Nelson Ford (My-Desk) 71355,470 To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70 Funny, I had just had a similar exchange with another non-member programmer and so I have the following list of membership advantages at hand: 1. It is a way of letting users know that your programs meet ASP's support and no-crippling requirements, which are two of the most common concerns of shareware users. 2. The availability of the ASP's Ombudsman to resolve possible disputes serves as further reassurance to users and thus helps promote registrations. 3. ASP membership helps assure users that the author of the program still can be found, even if the address in the documentation is no longer valid. 4. ASP members share valuable information with each other on the ASP forum on CIS. 5. ASP members have been able to pool their resources to promote their products at major computer shows and to take legal action on behalf of all members. 6. Virtually all of the major shareware distributors are now Associate Members of ASP and promote ASP and its members in their publications. (The "licensing" of shareware vendors in itself was another significant ASP project which benefitted all shareware programmers and users.) In the face of these advantages, it would take some pretty compelling reasons for a programmer NOT to join, and I'm not aware of any such reasons, other than not wanting to meets ASP's standards. That's why I said in the last PSL NEWS that any author serious about marketing his programs as shareware should be an ASP member. #: 67059 S9/Potential Authors 02-Nov-89 10:21:45 Sb: #67005-Welcome to section 9 Fm: Gary Elfring (DOWNLOAD) 72417,3437 To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70 Neil, interesting to see you here. I think there are two major reasons for joing the ASP. The first is information. We have a group of members who have a great deal of experience in marketing software as shareware. This group can offer you marketing adivice that would take you years to figure out on your own. We can also supply information on the technical aspect of things like where to get disks, how to duplicate them, labels, where to print manual, and how to package software. The second reason has to do with respect. The ASP is gaining momentum each day. We already see a number of messages on BBSs with people who complain about the porr quality of shareware or the lack of response from shareware authors. But those same messages now add, EXCEPT FOR ASP SHAREWARE. When people see a shareware product from an ASP author they know the product meets a set of minimum standards, it is not crippled, the author will respond to registrations, and there is a method for resolving registration conflicts (Omnibudman). #: 67066 S9/Potential Authors 02-Nov-89 11:43:48 Sb: #67045-#Welcome to section 9 Fm: Neil J. Rubenking 72241,50 To: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344 (X) Rob, Can I send a copy of this message to my Mom? (blush) -- Neil #: 67096 S9/Potential Authors 02-Nov-89 17:28:18 Sb: #67066-Welcome to section 9 Fm: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344 To: Neil J. Rubenking 72241,50 Gods don't have mothers. :-) #: 67122 S9/Potential Authors 02-Nov-89 22:05:58 Sb: #67066-Welcome to section 9 Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664 To: Neil J. Rubenking 72241,50 Huh - you wanna send a message that says "he was my hero but then I met him so he isn't any more" to your mom <grin>. - Barry #: 67359 S9/Potential Authors 05-Nov-89 14:54:22 Sb: #67335-Welcome to section 9 Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664 To: Steve Lee (ShrwrMktg) 73447,1252 Actually one of our miscellaneous standards reads: "The program author will respond to people who send registration payments, as promised in the program's documentation. At a minimum, the author will acknowledge receipt of all payments." Not responding for 6 months violates that policy. We might not learn of the problem during the initial screening but if we did, you can be sure we'd reject the author without a firm promise tro shape up. If the OMB got complaints about this, we'd take action. - Barry #: 104857 S9/Potential Authors 27-Dec-90 20:25:39 Sb: #Why join? Fm: Bob Burns (Public Brand) 73667,324 To: All Let me pass along to you a message left on an echomail system by a staff member representing a major shareware tele-communications package: "We are not members of the ASP. We don't see it as providing any benefits to us whatsoever." These folks produce an excellent program that is not crippled, have a loyal following of satisfied users (including me), have gotten glowing reviews by respected writers, and are probably getting a ton of registrations. What's the answer guys? Why _should_ they join the ASP? * Replies: 104860, 104867, 104877, 104892 #: 104860 S9/Potential Authors 27-Dec-90 21:12:08 Sb: #104857-Why join? Fm: Rosemary West KIDPIX 72301,435 To: Bob Burns (Public Brand) 73667,324 Maybe they don't need to join. If they are truly getting everything they want from the shareware system, and if they don't feel that they have anything to contribute to others, then membership in an organization like this may have no purpose for them. That doesn't negate the benefits it has for others. * Reply: 105008 #: 105008 S9/Potential Authors 30-Dec-90 10:22:47 Sb: #104860-Why join? Fm: Tom Rawson [4DOS] 75300,210 To: Rosemary West KIDPIX 72301,435 So what's KIDPIX? ... Tom * Reply: 105066 #: 105066 S9/Potential Authors 30-Dec-90 23:14:46 Sb: #105008-Why join? Fm: Rosemary West KIDPIX 72301,435 To: Tom Rawson [4DOS] 75300,210 Children's drawings converted to Wallpaper for Windows 3.0 and PCX format. #: 104867 S9/Potential Authors 28-Dec-90 00:02:55 Sb: #104857-Why join? Fm: STEVE HUDGIK (Share Book 71450,254 To: Bob Burns (Public Brand) 73667,324 I got that same answer from a lot of the non-ASP shareware publishers I interviewed. I feel the answer is: Although you do not feel you need the educational benefits of the ASP, since you already are successful, you are receiving a benefit - even though you are not a member. All shareware publishers benefit from the increased recognition of shareware as a viable marketing method. All shareware authors benefit from the increased recognition of shareware publishers as professionals. All shareware publishers benefit from the ASP's legal efforts to protect the shareware concept and name. All shareware publishers benefit from the ASP's marketing efforts to make users (and the media) aware of what shareware is and how it works. Even though all shareware publishers receive these benefits whether or not they are members, the ASP can only continue to provide them if it has the support of authors. Even if they do not wish to actively participate I feel all authors should join the ASP at least in recognition that they are benefiting from the existence of the ASP.