NeedleCraft Plus/needlecraftplusvolume1.iso/misc/sca-156/sca-156

Internet Message Format | 1994-12-03 | 20KB

From: Gretchen Miller <ur-valhalla!andrew.cmu.edu!grm+>
Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 156, 10/4/94
The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 156, October 4, 1994

Send items for the list to [e-mail] (or reply to this message).

Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to
[e-mail]

Note: Please dont' continue the "authenticity" arguments; the digest is
several days behind the regular list, and this "discussion" has already
caused enough heat and bad feelings.  Thanks!

Enjoy!

---------------------------------------------------------------
Topics:
Erte
16th C Scots/Irish Culture
Chafing
Travelling and pictures
1939 military costume
Puritan dress
Question and answers: Ascot dress
Advice:Dragoon Shako
Cultural differences and tolerance
Italian Renaissance braids/hair styles
Introduction for new list member

--------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 15:03:27 MET DST
From: "Insufficient Virtual ... um ... err ..." <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Erte

>I've seen a couple of the movies that show Erte costumes;  I was left
>with the impression that no fabric known to man (in the '20s, anyway)
>could realize the sinuous heavy drapery Erte achieved in his drawings.
>The velvets looked dumpy; the silks, insubstantial.
>
>Has anybody out there seen some surviving Ertes that _looked_ like his
>sketches?  I'm curious, because I'd written him off as a fine sketcher
>of unrealizable clothing.  (Contrast Fortuny, who _did_ good work with
>drapery.  Lust, lust, lust.)


I have never seen any >real< Erte costume. Looking at his drawings
(which I really find great), I never could immagine that any of his
costumes can actually be realized. I decided once to get inspired by his
pictures and make a costume for myself just for fun, but ultimately
decided to give up because of his special understanding of earth gravity.

Anyway, I would also be interested if anybody could tell me I am wrong.

   Cheers.
      Bettina


--------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 11:57:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "K.C. Kozminski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 16th Cent Scots/Irish Culture


 I just checked a book entitled "History of Highland Dress" by John
Telfner Dunbar out of the Library.  I haven't had a chance to thoroughly
puruse it, but it would cover the late end of the period your looking
at.  There is also a two-part work called "Highland dress, Irish dress
and that of the Isle of Mann"  I believe the author's name is O'Neil,
I'll check for sure and let you know.
 Good luck!
  KC
Don't think of it as aging, think of it as "Attaining Mythic Stature"
kc/Roen who is, herself

--------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Elizabeth Hanes Perry)
Subject: Re: Chafed Thighs
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 16:11:26 -0400 (EDT)

> The prevention for chafed thighs I have found very effective is to apply a
> thick layer of baby powder to the offending areas after bathing, when
my skin
> is still slightly damp (so it sticks instead of just powdering off).    If I do
> get caught out, I apply Vitamin E ointment to the raw areas (since that
> promotes healing) and cover the ointment with baby powder and have found it
> clears up in a few days.

The last research I'd heard said it was definitely unwise to use either
talcum powder or baby (cornstarch, nowadays) powder near the vaginal
area.  The first may tend to cause problems with the vagina or cervix
(if I remember correctly, the talc migrates up to the uterus and serves
as a source of irritation); the second provides food for yeast
infections.

Have you ever noticed that there are fewer and fewer solutions in life
nowadays?

Betsy


--------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 13:20:34 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Alison Kondo)
Subject: travelling


 I carry a sketchpad along with me on trips...many places that won't
allow photos under any circumstances have had no objections to sketches.

 Alison


--------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 15:30:27 CST
From: donna parker <[e-mail]>
Subject: 1939 military costume


Here are several for you to try:

Ewing, Elizabeth. Women in Uniform through the Centuries. Towowa, N.J.:
Rowan and Littlefield, 1975.

Rankin, colonel Robert H.  Uniforms of the Army. New York: G.P. Putnam's
Sons, 1967.

Windrow, Martin and Gerry Embleton. Military Dress of North American
1665-1970. New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1973.

Clark, Alan. Aces High: The War in the Air over the WEstern Front
1914-1918.  ?Publisher

O'Donnol, Shirley Miles. American Costume, 1915-1970: A Source Book for
the Stage Costumer. Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1982.

Falls, Major DeWitt Clinton. Army and Navy Information: Uniforms,
Organizations, Arms and Equipments of the Warring Powers. New York: B.P.
Dutton, 1917.


--------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 16:06:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Deb <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Chafed Thighs

>The last research I'd heard said it was definitely unwise to use
>either talcum powder or baby (cornstarch, nowadays) powder near the
>vaginal area.    The first may tend to cause problems with the vagina or
>cervix (if I remember correctly, the talc migrates up to the uterus
>and serves as a source of irritation); the second provides food for
>yeast infections.


Begging your pardon, but Doctors seem to differ on that last. I am
currently fighting ongoing yeast infections.  One of the items on the
PLEASE DO THIS    sheet my doctor handed me was
to use ONLY  straight cornstarch in this area.    (Not just on the thighs,
near this area, but IN this area.)

And, no, that's not CAUSING my problems, because I've only recently
agreed to obey their list of rules!

However, this is rather a marked digression from the topic of
Costuming!          'Nuff said.                Deb


--------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Early Puritan Dress
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 09:16:00 PDT
From: Walter Nelson <[e-mail]>

-- Your message was:   (from "[e-mail]")
  Am a romance writer and would like to find out how the early puritans
  dressed, especially the textiles and colors of fabric they used and what they
  wore as undergarments.  Thank you ahead of time and any help is most
  appreciated.
  Candace at:
  [e-mail]

  ------------------
They didn't all run around in black, with huge white collars and tall
hats with buckles on them.

If at all possible, I would suggest either going to or getting pictures
of the interpreters at Plimoth Plantation in Plymouth Mass (I can't tell
from your address where you are located). Their clothing, which is
indistinguishable from the clothing of any other English people of the
1620s, is primary made of wool or linen, and the colors are subdued
browns, grays, reds, oranges, greens etc., all of which have a "natural
dye" look. This should give you an excellent feel for the look of early
American Puritans.

As to underwear, I would suggest getting hold of a Dover book called (I
think)"The History of Undergarments".  It is inexpensive and in print.

Always remember though, that Puritans were not a homogenous group.  They
were a full cross section of English society, from high to low.  There
were Puritan Earls and Puritan peasants (though Calvinism was strongest
among the artisan and merchant classes).  A Puritan would dress in the
same manner as a non-Puritan member of the same social class, though
perhaps with a little less ornament than might be found among members of
a class that would wear ornament.  Most of those who came to America
though, were members of the artisan class, though even there, there was
considerable variation in wealth and relative social position--all of
which would be reflected in their clothes.

Good luck.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walter Nelson               |   INSERT PITHY WITTICISM HERE
RAND                   |
[e-mail]           |
___________________________________________________________________________


--------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 10:15:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "K.C. Kozminski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: More Highland dress

The other book on Highland dress is "Old Irish and Highland Dress" by
Major H.F.McClintock.  You may also want to check the library at the
Fashion Institute of Technology, in NYC .  One of their recent Museum
curators did her Master's thesis on Scottish dress, and mounted an
exhibiton along with it, they probably have a catalogue or slides from
that exhibition.
 KC

Don't think of it as aging, think of it as "Attaining Mythic Stature"
kc/Roen who is, herself

--------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 15:11:15 PST
From: [e-mail] (Loren Dearborn)
Subject: Re: Thanks to list


Kudos to you Marsha!

And a question for the group - in anticipation of a delayed, but
hopefully not completely canceled Ascot Races event I've been doing some
research on Black Ascot and wondered if anyone had any good costuming
sources for Ascot Races attire in general, and Black Ascot in
particular.  The best pictures I have so far are from "Victorian and
Edwardian Fashion: a photographic survey" by Gernsheim, but I'd like
more than that.  Thanks in advance.

      Loren Dearborn
      [e-mail]


--------------------------------------
Date:          Fri, 23 Sep 94  14:07:36 EDT
From: "Kathleen A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Subject:      Dragoon Shako

Title:Art Library, UofL
Phone:[phone]

A friend asked me for info on purchasing or creating an 1840's Dragoon
Shako.    He's heard that there's a firm in Kentucky that supplies
reenactors, called either Hat Crafters or Heintz Hat Co.  Anybody know
of this company, or anything similar?

Anyone who can help can contact my friend directly--A. Patrick Hughes,
[e-mail], or can tell me to pass on.

THANKS--Kathy
[e-mail]
Bridwell Art Library, 102 Schneider Hall, Belknap Campus
University of Louisville, Louisville, KY 40292


--------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 11:13:03 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Alison Kondo)
Subject: Ascot Dress?


 Loren,
  Which year was Black Ascot? 1909? 1911? Most of what I remember is
that the couturier Lucile got caught out as having written her fashion
review in advence, describing pale gowns, while everyone was really
wearin mourning.   I don't know any really specific sources for "Ascot
Dress", but I did run across a bunch of millinery magazines (for the
trade, had some interesting
"women in Business" articles) from 1911-14 which described the clothing
being worn at both Ascot & Longchamps, with some photos. Most of the
detailed description was the hats, but they did cover the general dress
styles as well.

 Alison

--------------------------------------
From: [e-mail]
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 02:40:00 UTC
Subject: Non-arguement, CQ, FFF, books

                   (SIGH)
   Look folks.    This is a matter of cultural perception.  Joanne hit the
nail on the head that this is an international mail-list.  This is not
(or shouldn't be) reserved only for Americans.  That's what makes this
so cool -- input from all over the world.

    I don't think we Americans are aware how much impact the term "nazi"
has in England.  Certainly more than here.  And yes, it is meant as a
joke.  By laughing it off, one =should= become less testy about someone
who is being rude.  Generally speaking, a mature person
can detect someone who is genuinely being helpful, and one who is being
deliberately negative.    From what I've read here, everyone has been
quite polite, just making their opinion known.    We may not agree, or see
it differently, but I have not seen anyone make a deliberate attack.
And if someone DOES see an "attack" then the "wounded" person is the one
with the problem, not the person who stated their opinion.  I think you
all are to be commended for remaining polite in your responses.

     Yes, there are those who wear their egos like they wear their
costumes:  on the outside, and easily takes offense.  Well, that kind of
attitude is not exclusive to any one culture.  Granted, there's a
certain amount of ego one has to have to make something that everyone
will see.  That person has to also accept the fact that there may be
some comments made, good or bad, and should just keep the negative
comments in proper perspective that its not the end of their happiness.
'Kay?  Lashing out to make oneself feel better is not a proper reponse.
I think we all know that.

     Diane was quite clear with her charter, by the way.  I appreciate
everyone's view point.  Let's share knowledge, and just accept the fact
that not everyone wants to be totally accurate as
recreationists, and those that do should be admired for their
dedication.  The rest of us just wanna have fun.

A correction for Eleanor:  The FFF deadline has been extended to
December 31, 1994, per the CostumeAPA.

I talked to Pierre about the CQs last night (Thursday).  The Summer
issue was mailed out 2 weeks ago, via bulk or first class mail.  Most or
all are currently MIA, and the editor is investigating why.  The
deadline for the next issue is the end of September, as she's trying
to get back on schedule.

Finally, would Ms. Wilcox please e-mail me her phone number or
something, as I can't seem to call up the proper digest issue and I
desperately want to buy a book that was on her list.  The sooner, the
better.

                       Thanks!

                       Bruce


--------------------------------------
From: [e-mail]
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 10:11:18 EDT
Subject: 16th century hair styles

I've been looking at a lot of Italian paintings from approx. 1550 to
1600 and noticing hair styles.    There are several where two braids are
arranged in a loop or circle at the back
of the head and several of these show the braids wrapped with a strip of
cloth or ribbon.

I had an idea that perhaps the ribbon was more than decorative, so I
tried "sewing" my braids to my head with a long narrow strip of cotton
cloth...it worked beautifully!    They stayed in place very securely and
it looks like the paintings. Does anyone have any idea if this is really
what is going on or if I'm out on a limb?

If I'm on the right track here, how do you suggest that I finish the
edges of the strip cloth?  Should I make a small hand rolled finish on
both edges or sew it into a tube?  Do you suggest I use silk instead of
cotton (I can't find any linen locally that would be fine enough weight)?

Also, what to do with the ends of the braids?

Thea


--------------------------------------
From: Mirabelle Severn & Thames <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 16th century hair styles
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 9:46:39 PDT

 From: [e-mail]
 Subject: 16th century hair styles

 I've been looking at a lot of Italian paintings from approx.
 1550 to 1600 and noticing hair styles.  There are several
 where two braids are arranged in a loop or circle at the back
 of the head and several of these show the braids wrapped
 with a strip of cloth or ribbon.

 ... I tried "sewing" my braids to my head with a
 long narrow strip of cotton cloth...it worked beautifully!...

 Also, what to do with the ends of the braids?

Well, I've never studied the type of style you're talking about, so take
this for what it's worth.  When I was in Guatemala 19 years ago, many of
the Mayan women and girls wore their hair braided in one or two braids,
hanging long, hanging looped, or bound up.  Each braid had a long satin
ribbon, about 6-8 inches wide, braided in from top to bottom. They
didn't use a fastener at the bottom, they just used the ribbon to
augment the braid when the hair ran out, and tied
it off at the very end.  If the paintings support it, might you be able
to make the braid this way with a nice long ribbon (or cloth strip), tie
it off at the bottom of the braid, and then use the rest of the ribbon
to "sew" the braid to your head, as you say?  That should solve the
problem of the braid ends.

Good luck.
Naomi

--------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 10:17:10 PDT
From: "SNORTON.US.ORACLE.COM" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ascot dress

This book contains black and white photographs.  More than 1/3 of the
photographs were taken at Ascot between 1906 - 1914.   It includes a
complete section on Black Ascot.  In the first Ascot racing season after
the death of King Edward VII, society dressed from head to foot in
black.    The event came to be known as Black Ascot.  It occurred in 1910.

The photographs are exceptional.  There are many closeups of costume for
both men and women.  I found this book in one of the "chain" bookstores
a couple of years ago.    I don't know if it's still in print but, it is
the sort of thing one might find in the photography section of a museum
bookstore, if it's available.

The Golden Summer, The Edwardian Photographs of Horace W. Nicholls
by Gail Buckland
1989
Pavilion Books
196 Shaftesbury Avenue
ISBN 1 85145 326 1
London    WC2H8JL



-- Sally Norton
      [e-mail]


braids?

Well, I've never studied the type of style you're talking
about, so take this for what it's worth.  When I was in
Guatemala 19 years ago, many of the Mayan women and girls
wore their hair braided in one or two braids, hanging long,
hanging looped, or bound up.  Each braid had a long satin
ribbon, about 6-8 inches wide, braided in from top to bottom.
They didn't use a fastener at the bottom, they just used the
ribbon to augment the braid when the hair ran out, and tied
it off at the very end.  If the paintings support it, might
you be able to make the braid this way with a nice long ribbon
(or cloth strip), tie it off at the bottom of the braid, and
then use the rest of the ribbon to "sew" the braid to your
head, as you say?  That should solve the problem of the braid
ends.

Good luck.
Naomi

[29,1469,MiVjlii00UfAQ0vXZ7]
[27,1052,QiVk9fK00UfAQ0viUO]
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 10:17:10 PDT
From: "SNORTON.US.ORACLE.COM" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Ascot dress




This book contains black and white photographs.  More than 1/3 of the
photographs
were taken at Ascot between 1906 - 1914.   It includes a complete section on
Black Ascot.  In the first Ascot racing season after the death of King Edward
VII,
society dressed from head to foot in black.  The event came to be known as
Black
Ascot.    It occurred in 1910.

The photographs are exceptional.  There are many closeups of costume for both
men and women.    I found this book in one of the "chain" bookstores a couple of
years ago.  I don't know if it's still in print but, it is the sort of thing
one might
find in the photography section of a museum bookstore, if it's available.

The Golden Summer, The Edwardian Photographs of Horace W. Nicholls
by Gail Buckland
1989
Pavilion Books
196 Shaftesbury Avenue
ISBN 1 85145 326 1
London    WC2H8JL



-- Sally Norton
      [e-mail]

---------------------------- End of Volume 156 -----------------------