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$Unique_ID{bob01213}
$Pretitle{}
$Title{Nixon Tapes, The
April 16, 1973. (1:39pm - 3:25pm) - Part 2/2}
$Subtitle{}
$Author{Various}
$Affiliation{}
$Subject{nixon
pres
peterson
inaudible
that's
dean
say
right
haldeman
get}
$Date{1974}
$Log{}
Title: Nixon Tapes, The
Author: Various
Date: 1974
April 16, 1973. (1:39pm - 3:25pm) - Part 2/2
R. Ziegler: Hi - how are you?
Pres. Nixon: Henry Petersen
R. Ziegler: Yes indeed.
Pres. Nixon: Let me tell you the problem, Ron, that we have here. You know a
few weeks - now do you think Henry that you'll bet - that you
could - you don't know what - about the Dean thing - you don't
know when you are going to negotiate that?
H. Peterson: No sir.
Pres. Nixon: It seems to me
H. Peterson: The simple fact of the matter is the man has just agreed to
plead. Now it's only a question of time.
Pres. Nixon: He's agreed to plead.
H. Peterson: He's agreed to plead - it's a question of time.
Pres. Nixon: Plead what - guilty?
H. Peterson: Plead guilty - yes sir - Magruder has agreed to plead guilty.
Pres. Nixon: No - no - no - Dean?
H. Peterson: Oh Dean. The negotiations on Dean are still wide open.
Pres. Nixon: Dean isn't going to plead guilty?
H. Peterson: No sir.
Pres. Nixon: He's got this defense of being an agent? Right?
H. Peterson: That's right.
Pres. Nixon: Is that defense?
H. Peterson: Well it's a tactical defer
Pres. Nixon: It's tactical defense?
H. Peterson: Well, you know, the jury appeal unless you - in a sense jury
notification of sympathy - that the jury will not convict
because they think he's the fall guy.
Pres. Nixon: Oh I swell (inaudible) - the Cubans.
H. Peterson: Depends on how sympathetic an appeals is made.
Pres. Nixon: That's my point.
H. Peterson: But Dean's appeal's much more sympathetic. Dean's out for
anyone on instructions, and he hasn't gone out and committed an
overt criminal act. He hasn't broken any thine the Cubans did
- which is what detracted from their attempt to do this. Dean
has done - performed neutral acts which in the circumstances
they were performed take on the trace of criminality, and he
excuses that with, one - he wasn't fully informed; two he was
only an agent: three, he didn't have enough authority to
countermand Mitchell - or he told Haldeman and Haldeman didn't
countermand. Dean was impotent in the circumstance. That will
be his defense.
Pres. Nixon: I see.
H. Peterson: (Inaudible) try it - the jury - you believe
Pres. Nixon: Also told you that unless you grant him immunity he's going to
attack everybody including the President. Is
H. Peterson: But you can't use that.
Pres. Nixon: Huh?
H. Peterson: You can't use that
Pres. Nixon: Who can't?
H. Peterson: Because Dean didn't tell us that
Pres. Nixon: The attorney?
H. Peterson: His lawyer said it.
Pres. Nixon: No I didn't - I didn't - I just thought -
H. Peterson: But his lawyer said that in the course of negotiations. And he
doesn't say that as a threat. He says this is what I am going
to do. This is my defense. You're taking unfair advantage of
this man.
Pres. Nixon: Oh I see. Going to go out as an agent?
H. Peterson: Yes sir.
Pres. Nixon: No agent for the President that's for sure, because
H. Peterson: He's agent for Haldeman and
Pres. Nixon: He hasn't testified that's he an agent for the President in any
of this has he?
H. Peterson: No sir.
Pres. Nixon: If he has, I need to know it.
H. Peterson: Yes sir - I know.
Pres. Nixon: (Inaudible) see Dean until a month ago. Never even saw him.
H. Peterson: That has great significance on your executive privilege argument
with the Congress. He said narrower constriction and I'm told
your construction -
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
H. Peterson: is not necessarily narrow
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
H. Peterson: It's the narrow construction of the doctrine which is applicable
only to those who are agents for the President.
Pres. Nixon: Yeah. So he, being an agent.
H. Peterson: That - and to the extent that it's invoked with Dean - he is per
se an agent.
Pres. Nixon: That wasn't what you just told me in that memo you cave me?
H. Peterson: That he is an agent for the President and Haldeman and
Ehrlichman,
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
H. Peterson: and the court take judicial notice, for example, that the Chief
Executive invoked executive privilege with respect to him.
It's an argument that can be made with respect - your argument
-
R. Ziegler: I thought that was already done.
H. Peterson: Pardon?
R. Ziegler: It's been done.
H. Peterson: (Inaudible), statements have been made in the press that it
would be.
R. Ziegler: Oh I see
Pres. Nixon: (Inaudible) basically this - they haven't made a (inaudible) -
Dean - but you are trying to made a deal, aren't you?
H. Peterson: Yes sir.
Pres. Nixon: And the problem is that what kind of a one you can make won't do
a (inaudible). I would assume that we (inaudible) to Dean -
all Dean wants is immunity from indictment.
H. Peterson: Yes sir
Pres. Nixon: You're prepared to give it to him? The judicial one?
H. Peterson: Yeah. We're not going to like it.
Pres. Nixon: What?
H. Peterson: And only as a last resort. And only if -
Pres. Nixon: (Inaudible) going to get
H. Peterson: Only if we have
Pres. Nixon: Other evidence?
H. Peterson: other evidence that could be used to convict higher-ups. Now it
may only be John Mitchell but if so, why a -
Pres. Nixon: But you could use Dean on Mitchell - that's the point.
H. Peterson: Yes sir.
Pres. Nixon: You see with Magruder you end up with one man - he's already
lied once.
H. Peterson: That's right
Pres. Nixon: I know a little perjury - and with Dean - you've got two men.
H. Peterson: That's right.
Pres. Nixon: Correct?
H. Peterson: That's right.
Pres. Nixon: If you get Liddy you've got three.
H. Peterson: That's right.
Pres. Nixon: That will be a tough (Inaudible) that's why you're considering
giving him immunity?
H. Peterson: Yes sir.
Pres. Nixon: You think it's a good decision.
H. Peterson: (Inaudible) - I haven't made it yet and I'm pondering it - and I
don't want to make it. I think it's going to look terrible if
we immunize Dean 'cause he is a ranking official and we're
still bargaining for a plea. If we can get a plea, we won't do
it. If we have to -
Pres. Nixon: What kind of a plea would you be getting, Henry? I don't know
the operation of it.
H. Peterson: Well I don't know - we might a -
Pres. Nixon: Suspended? That sort of thing?
H. Peterson: Well.
Pres. Nixon: He wants a plea that doesn't disbar him.
H. Peterson: He wants a plea that doesn't disbar him - he doesn't want to
plead at all to be perfectly honest, but he'll want a plea that
doesn't disbar him I'm sure.
Pres. Nixon: Here's the situation. You see they're still bargaining with
Dean. Second the Magruder thing - they're still bargaining
with him. Is that correct?
H. Peterson: Yes sir - to determine a time.
Pres. Nixon: But you think that might come - not today now with Magruder?
H. Peterson: Well I don't think that we can satisfy his counsel's concerns
today. They may say, well you go see Senator