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01210.txt
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1992-08-07
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$Unique_ID{bob01210}
$Pretitle{}
$Title{Nixon Tapes, The
April 16, 1973. (10:50am - 11:04am)}
$Subtitle{}
$Author{Various}
$Affiliation{}
$Subject{nixon
pres
ehrlichman
haldeman
hr
right
magruder
report
say
john}
$Date{1974}
$Log{}
Title: Nixon Tapes, The
Author: Various
Date: 1974
April 16, 1973. (10:50am - 11:04am)
Meeting: President Nixon, HR Haldeman and John Ehrlichman, Oval Office
Pres. Nixon: Come in.
HR Haldeman: Do you want John too?
Pres. Nixon: Yes, John too.
HR Haldeman: The scenario worked out pretty well. Yeah -
Pres. Nixon: Well, John, let me say this is quite the operator. We first
talked about the work he did before this began. I said that I
wanted him to know that it is national security work. He said
I consider it so. I said, "Have you told anybody about it?"
He said, "No. I don't intend to. I don't intend to say a
thing more than I need to say in answering questions with
regard to this matter, and I will not comment on anything else
of course. I will not comment on any conversation I have had
with the President." So far as he is concerned, that operation
will not be discussed. Of course, the problem I suppose is as
far as others are concerned or were involved. But if they do
John, I would play it straight out. Damn it, of course we do
this.
J. Ehrlichman: Well, I have been thinking about this a little bit. If I ever
got a question like that at the Grand Jury I would have to step
out and ask the U. S. Attorney to step out and tell him that
its under Executive Privilege. Since it is a National Security
matter, I can't answer; that I would be happy to refer it to
the President for his decision as to whether I should answer
that or not, but that I am in no position to respond. If he
says, well then we will have to go talk to the Judge, I will
say that is what I think we should do.
Pres. Nixon: Fine. And then you get to the Judge and say this involved -
J. Ehrlichman: a highly sensitive national security -
Pres. Nixon: national security investigations involving leaks. Would you say
that?
J. Ehrlichman: No.
Pres. Nixon: No? You would not tell them what area?
J. Ehrlichman: No. I am just not at liberty, and the procedure we have in
government for a thing like that is for the witness who is put
a question like that to refer it to the President for his
personal review.
Pres. Nixon: That's right.
J. Ehrlichman: And I would like an opportunity for that to be done.
Pres. Nixon: I can see you being asked the question.
J. Ehrlichman: I kind of think that is right, but that is the process that I
would have to follow.
Pres. Nixon: I told him I would like to have that letter and he said, "What
about Haldeman and Ehrlichman?" I said they have already told
me that they will resign in case - naturally nobody is going to
resign around here until somebody - until I get better
information, until I can satisfy myself with Petersen, etc.
And he said, "Well, do you mind if I take the letters and I
prepare them? I would like to prepare them so that in the
event I have to go to trial they won't prejudice me in that."
I said, "Fine, fine. Prepare me what you think your letter of
resignation should be." So there it is. So he is thinking in
both terms, apparently. I am just guessing and I think that it
is altogether proper, because he should have a letter of that
sort. But I told him, as I told Haldeman and Ehrlichman last
night, there is no question about people resigning around here.
I've got their letters of resignation in hand anytime I want
them. Wasn't that the proper thing to say to him?
J. Ehrlichman: That's fine.
J. Haldeman: He doesn't give you any indication how he is going to plead?
Pres. Nixon: No. He said my lawyers have to work that out. But he also hits
this again, John: that his lawyers think that his possible
criminal liability is limited. You know what I mean, damn hard
to prove. Now maybe he said basically when I see what is
involved here - he mentioned some - thing like, "sort of a
(unintelligible) facing me, but it is a damn hard case"-and he
said what his lawyers have told him is that the Justice
Department could well come out of this without any indictments
against anyone on the White House staff. I said, "What about
Colson?" And he said, "Well there are three areas." He
mentioned Bittman. He mentioned call to Hunt, etc.
HR Haldeman: The call to Magruder.
Pres. Nixon: Oh, yes. Call to Magruder, but that's previous. I hit him hard
and I said, "Now look here, John. We had received this report?
What about his call? Was that true? And he said, "Yes." I
said, "Do you still believe that?" And he said, "Yes." He
said as far as anyone getting any (unintelligible) out, nobody
got anything out of it. As for legal side of this, John, he
has some sharp lawyers and they think this is a damn hard case
to prove.
J. Ehrlichman: For the government to prove?
HR Haldeman: Government thinks so, too, doesn't it?
Pres. Nixon: As I told you today, Petersen said that the legal end is just
terribly difficult.
HR Haldeman: It is our moral thing and the pressure. Basically it is a PR
job.
Pres. Nixon: We have to decide this and decide it in terms of many things.
But I, at least, felt a little better about it than I did last
night.
HR Haldeman: Apparently.
Pres. Nixon: Well, now when do I receive Rogers?
HR Haldeman: Anytime you want. I talked to him. He is on standby.
Pres. Nixon: How about four o'clock? Get him over here.
HR Haldeman: That is fine. Whatever you want.
Pres. Nixon: Well, I will just call him and tell him to be on standby this
afternoon. It may be earlier. Well, no, it is just as well.
Get him over here at 4 o'clock.
HR Haldeman: 4 o'clock.
Pres. Nixon: E.O.B.
J. Ehrlichman: He is helping us to find counsel.
Pres. Nixon: Good, good. How has the scenario worked out? May I ask you?
HR Haldeman: Well, it works out very good. You became aware sometime ago
that this thing did not parse out the way it was supposed to
and that there were some discrepancies between what you had
been told by Dean in the report that there was nobody in the
White House involved, which may still be true.
Pres. Nixon: Incidentally, I don't think it will gain us anything by dumping
of the Dean Report as such.
J. Ehrlichman: No.
Pres. Nixon: What I mean is I would say I was not satisfied that the Dean
Report was complete and also I thought it was my obligation to
go beyond that to people other than the White House.
J. Ehrlichman: Ron has an interesting point. Remember you had John Dean go
to Camp David to write it up. He came down and said, "I
can't."
Pres. Nixon: Right.
J. Ehrlichman: That is the tip off and right then you started to move.
Pres. Nixon: That's right. He said he could not write it.
HR Haldeman: Then you realized that there was more to this