Wi> anyone remember the B128? What was Commodore DOING with that?
What they were doing was creating the most advanced 8 bit computer ever built. The B128 and its big brothers the B256 and the awesome B720 are in many respects far superior to the C128. With bank switched addressing to 1 meg, Co Processor Port, True Uart and a good portion of Basic 7.0, I still think this is the computer that got away.
The B256 was identical to the B128 with the addition of 128k of ram added to the empty ram sockets in the B128.
The B720 was the same mother board as the B256, but with a detachable keyboard and built in monitor. If you've every see the movie with Kathleen Turner and Micheal Douglas "Romancing the Stone", there is a scene with Kathleen examining the map room of the evil King - there on the table are a pair of twin B720's with cursors blinking.
The B720 has an artistic streamlined rounded case that is without question the best looking case ever put on a computer (definitely not a square box PET).
The 720 manual also shows an embedded 8250LP Dual drive just below the monitor. The title calls it the B720 Dual - however I have never heard anyone admit to seeing one anywhere - I don't think the dual version was ever made. The B720 Kernal does include a spat of code for banking a "dos rom" as listed in the schematics, but I don't think anyone ever completed the ROM.
The B128 never succeeded for 1 reason - no color output, but it did have a SID and a true 6550 Uart with an honest to God RS-232C 25pin serial port. Also had a pet ieee port. The only other reason it didn't sell well, is that it was just to expensive for CBM to make.
Wi> Anyone know how many B128 computers were made?
I've heard the following - which I can't confirm that it is accurate:
B128's 35,000
B256's 4,000
B720's 1,000
Wi> What software was ever written for it?
The entire Super Series was written for it. *super base, super script...*. And a bulk package that allowed swapping between the modules called Super Office.
Other than that, I have heard of very little software ever developed for it. There is supposedly a couple meg of PD stuff running around for it.
There was a B128 users group at one time - don't think they are still together.
Wi> Is anyone using one today?
I have a Null modem setup between my clone and B128. I xfer stuff from the clone to the B128 to an SFD where I can get at it with the C128/64.
Wi> How compatible is it with the C64/128?
Basic is 2.0 is 100% compat. All of the Basic 7.0 drive commands work. Most other non-gfx commands work (do loops...else...).
Without Question the majority of the C128 was built straight out of the B128. A C128 is basically a B128 with a VIC II wedged in, a Uart removed, and an MMU added. Much of the C128 Basic ML is a byte for byte match with the Basic in the B128. Have heard of another version of the C128 that was a prototype between the B128 and C128. If that party would care to inform us of its specs (nudge nudge ;)
And that is probably more than you ever wanted to know.
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From: pap@dana.ucc.nau.edu (Paul Allen Panks)
Basically, the B128 was a Commodore 128, with a few notable exceptions (lack of color being one of them). The B128 was one of 5 machines Commodore unveiled at the Summer Consumer Electronics Show in May 1982.
1) Commodore 64 - Went on to sell 20-25 million units, quite possibly the best selling personal computer of all time. Mass-marketed.
2) Commodore MAX - Basically a stripped down version of the C64, without Keyboard. Meant to be a video game machine, in direct competition, I would guess, with the Atari 2600 which was popular at the time.
3) Super PET - Don't know much about this machine, other than that it was a supped up version of the PET.
4) Commodore B128 - 128K RAM,80 columns, could be hooked up to a 1 meg. disk drive (8050 I believe the drive number was), little or no color (don't remember if it was just monochrome or not), essentially the same Basic 7.0 that appeared in the C128, exceptions being lack of sprite commands (no VIC chip anyway to support them) but it had all of the Basic 2.0 commands, and Basic 4.0 Disk Drive commands. Sold approx. 15,000 units, mostly over in Europe. An old article in Compute!'s Gazette (Simple Answers to Common Questions -- 1985 issue, forget the exact issue but I know I have it...will look it up for you when I have time) detailed the specs and such on it as well as its (short) history.
5) Commodore B256 - A B128 with 128K extra-RAM on-board. Meant as a business style computer, with keyboard layout similar to the B128, which in turn was almost identical to the C128.
...
The B128 was aimed at an entirely different audience than the Vic-20 or PET series of computers were at the time, and this was even before Commodore reaped the benefits of the C64's success.
As a business-style computer, it was well-equipped but far too expensive for most computer owners/potential buyers. It is my guess that only businesses invested in the B128, but the success of the IBM PC in the business world made computers such as the B128 and Super PET obsolete, if they weren't already.
You are right, the Commodore 128 was based almost entirely on the existing B128's design, with only a few modifications thrown in. This was a very good money saving scheme that CBM used, but saving face from the Plus/4 and Commodore 16 debacle was a necessary move.
When you consider that Commodore achieved then-record sales of over $500 million on all of their microcomputers combined, the break down was something as follows:
1) Vic-20 - Out-sold the Commodore 64 for a several months before the hardware shortage and software famine that plagued it disappeared in late-1983. Much of the problem was a shortage of 1541 disk drives, and even then failure rates were much too high to be acceptable. The no-questions exchange program that CBM set up saved them millions of dollars in potential losses.
2) Commodore 64 - A close second to the Vic-20 in 1983 sales, but eventually took the lead in late-1983 as Vic-20 sales plummeted to earth. The hardware shortage was fixed by 1984, and software began flooding in -- a much needed breathe of fresh air for CBM.
3) PET/CBM - The PET series of microcomputers continued to sell exceptionally well, but started to drop off dramatically towards the end of 1983. The introduction of the C64, as well as the continued success of the Vic-20 as an introductary level personal computer spelled doom for the PET/CBM line of computers. Competition from IBM didn't help matters either.
4) B-Series - Commodore's worst seller. Lack of distribution networks killed it, as did its poor showing in the business world. PET fared better because it had time to carve out a niche. Very poor timing for a very-well equipped machine.
5) Commodore MAX - Did not last long. Died along with the video game craze. No one wanted another video game system. Computer revolution killed it.
...
So, Commodore's biggest successes and failures can be described as follows:
Successes:
1) Commodore 64 - Best selling personal computer of all time. Over 10,000+ programs were written for it, both commerically and in public domain circles. Sold between 20-25 million units during its remarkable lifetime (1982-1992).
2) Commodore 128 - Could have been far more successful than it turned out, but was an exceptional computer selling at a ridiculously low price. Full-fledged personal/business computer, and 100% C-64 compatible. Sold over 4 million units during its lifetime (1985-1989).
3) Vic-20 - Very popular micro-computer with alot going for it. Excellent computer for the home, and good at playing games. Sold over 2 1/2 million units during its lifetime (1980-1984).
Failures:
1) Commodore Amiga - Here's why: Commodore took an ingeniously designed personal computer with the potential to become the best selling personal computer of all time, and turned around and made it a marketing failure. The Amiga, without doubt, should have blown away the competition and forced IBM and Apple to rethink their position in the home computer market. The technology was there, the software was there, but not the support. And that's what killed it. Sold over 4 million units in various brands (A500,A1000,A2000,A3000,etc) during its lifetime (1985-1994).
*** Escom plans to reintroduce the Amiga line of computers sometime in 1996, if they haven't done so already ***
2) Commodore Plus/4 and 16 - Billed as the "Productivity" machine and "The Learning" machine, respectively, both these computers turned out to be tremendous flops. The huge departure these machines took from the enormously successful Commodore 64-line killed them. If not for the lack of Amiga support, these computers certainly would have been Commodore's greatest failure.
3) Commodore B-series (B128,B256,B720, etc.) - Introduced as business-style computers, they failed for a number of reasons, but mostly because of their high price tag (over $1700 originally). Compeition from other companies also killed this line off.
