Commodore Free 8/Commodore_Free_Issue_08_2007_Commodore_Computer_Club.d64/t.vga update

Text File | 2007-01-01 | 13.3 KB | 433 lines

uC=VGA adaptor Update LATEST UPDATE -
26 FEB 07 www.commodrescene.org.uk

Updates to the C=VGA page (& all the
other pages here too for that matter)
have not been foremost on my job list
recently. I am still in the throws of
sorting out the mess of all the refunds
from orders relating to Maurice.

So, whats happening with the C=VGA?
Well, after a spell of not being able
to contact Neil about the project &
he no longer can continue his work as
his time & expertise are needed else-
where - BUT - that is not the end of
the C=VGA.

This is what I have planned, in May I
go to Florida on a family holiday, I
will be collecting all my Commodore
stuff from Neil & any stuff relating to C=VGA & bring it back. Between now &
then I am talking with 2 or 3 people to
see if it is viable to continue the
project & get it finished this year.
If nobody is willing to finish off this
project then it will be cancelled & all
money will be refunded to those who
contributed over the years.

On a personal note, to see this project
fail would be a huge blow as I have
spent a lot of time  & a huge amount of
money  & hardware on it.  Also, if this
fails I will have the added hassle of
refunding the money, most of which has
been spent on purchasing components,
software & other bits & pieces that go
into such a project.

So, by the end of May 2007 we will know
one way or the other if the C=VGA will
be completed or terminated. Here's
hoping!

Note : I have just tried to send
everyone on the email list an updated
note but the list is corrupt, I can't
rebuild it for a fifth time so all
future news will be made here unless I
can find a recent email database.

UPDATE - 28 NOV 05 Recently a few very
good questions were asked about the
output resolutions. I thought you'd
like to read it:

1) What native resolution will the VGA-
screen run in? 640x480x60Hz fixed for
NTSC, 768x576x50Hz fixed for PAL. This
is a limitation of the VGA signal
generating chip used.  Output looks
great on LCD's [CRTs flicker a bit but
look good otherwise]

2) How can you make the picture crisp
when the PAL-output of the 64 is
already so bad? The picture is crisp
because the output is a 1:1
reproduction of the NTSC/PAL signal
(minus some pixels on the
top/bottom/left/right).

3) Did you check that Interlaced
pictures don't cause lines?  I've had
this behaviour with various digitizing-
systems (mostly DV) before, & from what
I gathered it boils down to this: The
standard viewable PAL-signal has 625
lines, & the c64 only provides 624 (312
rasterlinesx2 halfpictures). So
apparently the Framebase corrector
tries to "fix" this & moves half of the
interlaced picture up a little bit.
This leads to very ugly lines that only
show with interlaced pictures,
especially IFLI! The NTSC/PAL-to-VGA
routine is built into a hardware chip..
It looks pretty good. Not studio-good,
but good for home/game use.

4) It WILL use the much better Y/C
signal as a basis for the conversion &
not FBAS, right?  Yes.

5) Doesn't 100% smooth scrolling
require some sort of weird not-quite-
up-to-spec refresh rate most VGAs
cannot do?  Like 49 Hz or sth?  Will
there be problems with devices that
aren't as flexible with timings as CRTs
or TFTs like e.g.  a beamer or a
Plasma-TV? The chip uses 50hz to my
knowledge.

I've watched several PAL & NTSC
scrolling demos, there is no noticable
tearing or artifacts that I can see.

UPDATE - 19 NOV 05 As the testing of
the 80 column mode of the C128 is soon
to begin I thought it would be nice to
share our thoughts with you all.  Test
the C=VGA to its limits it was decided
to use the ultimate demo - The VDC
Experience - because this demo is so
specific in not only the type of C128
you use but also the type of monitor
you have, it will be VERY demanding.
Not many people in the UK have seen
this demo & I doubt ANYBODY in the USA
will have ever seen it at all. To give
you an idea, you need a German C128
with 64k VDC ram & a 1084 monitor,
nothing else will do.

UPDATE - 24 OCT 05 From Neil - "The CNC
is finally up & running today, I'm
running some boards on it now. I've
been learning my CAM program, which is
1006 pages long....  I also had to buy
a CNC control program to run the
machine, which was $160, with its own
500+ page manual.  Also I had to modify
a script to get my schematic program to
convert its format to my machine. I
finally got it tweaked enough to try
some boards, I'll try to have some
pictures to you tonight, if I have
time.

Now I should be able to prototype the
latest version of the C=VGA board  &
try it all out. I wouldn't say it's
ready to CNC it yet, but I'll keep you
posted on the progress anyway."

UPDATE - 3 SEP 05 Here is the abridged
version of the latest e-mail from Neil:
- I'm still here, I assure you I have
been making progress lately....  I've
just been very busy at work, working
overtime, plus going to school....
Having 20 or so minutes every night
doesn't really work for engineering
stuff, by the time you drag everything
out, you're throwing everything back
into a box....  (I've moved again, but
I won't bother you with that).

Working on weekends doesn't help
either.. Labor Day is this Monday, so
I'll get a lot accomplished. I have
most of the problems out of the way, #1
being the fabrication part.. I bought a
CNC mill about a month ago. It's a full
CNC mill, accurate down to 0.0005" on
finished parts (0.00127 centimeters)..
it will do aluminum, steel, plastic,
brass/bronze, stainless steel,
titanium, etc..  anything a fullsize
can do. I'll be using it for the front
& back connector panel on the boxes.

All the square holes will be machined
into rectangular plates...  I'll buy
the material anodized, & then engrave
the text into the anodization...  The
circuit boards will also be milled (my
last stopping point was so that I could
get the CNC working to make my next
prototype board). I will use 0.012" end
mills, along with carbide drills to
make the design...  (then a 60 degree
spade cutter to score the boards, you
break them apart after being milled)
the parts will be surface mounted to
save cost (labor & component costs)
using a hand pick & place machine, that
I have access to, a Dima FP600. A quick
throw through a reflow oven (also in
the same building with that machine)
will produce a professional quality
board.  This will save me from having
to manually solder 100+ boards (which I
would never have time for. This way, I
should be able to do 100 boards in an
8-hour day.

I have the SAA7110 talking to the
microcontroller (I had to write some
I2c routines from scratch), I just have
to assemble my new prototype board to
see if I can look at video...  Right
now I am waiting on a replacement
stepper motor for the CNC, which I need
before making a prototype board. I'm
also currently installing a digital
readout system (which reads the XYZ
position & spindle RPM & displays it on
my computer) in case the stepper motors
lose "count"...

I'm also replacing the power supply
with one I found on Ebay...  My lab
power supply is only 3 amps, not enough
for smooth operation.

I recieved a 10,000 RPM kit this week
which allows me to spin the motor fast
enough to do boards. I'm also rigging a
vacuum system with a Hepa filter to
keep the fiberglass dust down.  I'll
hopefully give you another update once
my motor is in & I machine a board or
two - Neil All those people who have
pre-ordered to kick start this project
will be pleased to know that we are now
discussing what we can do to your
C=VGA's to make them extra special.

Allan UPDATE - 27 AUG 2005 Okay then
this is where we are at the moment:
The only working prototype that we have
at the moment has be undergoing lengthy
programming to align the NTSC 40 col
signal, this was difficult & took a
VERY LONG time but it is now complete.

Suprisingly, when the signal was
adapted to try out the PAL 40 column it
worked first time !! To prove it worked
as intended Neil tested a PAL c64 with
a 19" LCD screen running the extremely
beautifull but yet very graphically
demanding Deux Ex Machina demo - & it
worked superbly.

So there we have it, at the moment the
40 columns side of things is working
fine so we now have to get working on
the 80 column mode. I'll keep you all
posted. Oh, I've also updated the Q&A
below.

* If you want to see this demo for
yourself you can download the d64
images from here - 1 - 2 - please note
that this is a PAL demo only & will not
display correctly on an NTSC machine,
that is, until the C=VGA is ready ;-)

From Neil - "As mentioned before there
is a 50hz flicker that is noticable on
CRT monitors.... It does however look
GREAT on my 19" Dell LCD at work :) No
flickering at all, since there are no
phosphors to dim between scans...."

"I've been using "Deus Ex Machina" for
testing, it truely looks beautiful on
all of the displays I've tested. The
scrolling/animation is PERFECTLY
smooth, no tearing or artifacts....
The C64 'interlacing' trick of
alternating pixel colors to increase
pallete works just as good as on my
1702 C= monitor. The colors on the LCD
look more vivid than the 1702, which
could be a good or bad thing... I
haven't tried to tweak the colors yet,
but it shouldn't be hard to do."

"Now I just have to complete my new
prototype, It's built, but I need to
change some things around  & start the
firmware... I only have an hour or two
every day after work for personal
projects, using my works' facilities &
test equipment.... but again, the
prototype stage shouldn't take long at
all....  the design work has already
been done."

Most of all - please remember, this
project is being done in Neil's 'spare
time' so that is why it is taking so
long, be patient, we ARE getting there
& I guarantee it will be worth the
wait.

Pre orders are no longer being taken -
any further cost will be funded by
myself or the developer. Please e-mail
Commodore Scene magazine Any technical
queries will be fowarded onto Neil for
him to answer.  If you want on the
mailing list for the C=VGA, contact us
to add your name. If your name should
be listed please email me with details.
NOTE : The final price of the C=VGA is
not decided yet. Pre-ordering is now on
hold & no further money will be
accepted until we can get the first
units dispatched  & tested.

SOME QUESTIONS ANSWERED:

Will work with the Amiga 1200? - We've
had this question a few times & the
honest answer is we just don't know
enough about the Amigas audio/video
outputs to say! When the first units
are ready for testing I will send some
to a couple of Amiga guys to test
various platforms for me. The Mk2 C=VGA
will work with a wider variety of older
computers & we'll try to make sure the
Amiga is one of them if it doesn't work
with the Mk1.

Will it work in C128 80 column mode? -
Yes.  The C=VGA will work in C64 40
col mode, C128 40 & 80 col mode. - All
colous will be supported unlike older
adapters where 80 column mode was B/W.

How much will it cost? - Estimates for
the basic device are US$ 35-40, UK
24-30 & 40-45 Euros.

Can I pre-order? - No, pre ordering is
now suspended.

Will it be PAL compatible? - Yes, the
device will be PAL & NTSC compatible.

Will it be available in my country? -
Yes.  Worldwide distribution is already
in place via the Commodore Scene
Importing Service & we have a USA
distributor too.

There are already video converters
available, why not use one of those? -
Have you tried one? I have & believe me
they are awful. No converter ever made
supports RGB 80 columns in full color.
This device is being made specifically
for all Commodore outputs.

Will it be blurred like older adapters?
- No it will be crystal clear & flicker
free in ALL modes.

What will the final build quality be
like? - The final device will be fully
enclosed & very tidy. The developer
takes great pride in all his projects
& his other devices are of the highest
build quality.

Will there be a VGA pass-thru port? -
Yes.

How will the unit be powered? - Not
sure just yet, we are working on
several options but a good option would
be to use a currently available source
such a Commodore peripheral so that a
simple 'piggy back' plug could be used.

Can I use any size monitor? - Probably
yes but until the prototype is running
it is hard to say what the quality of
output will be. A 14"/15" monitor would
be about the size we currently have so
that should look okay.  The prototype
has been play tested on a 19" Dell LCD
monitor & gave superb results. Problems
during testing mean that older CRT
monitor probably won't work well but
most LCD's should be fine.

Will I be able to use a laptop monitor?
- If your laptop allows VGA.

Will it have a scan doubler? - This
device IS a scan doubler, it also has
some nifty DSP (digital signal
processing) functions to improve
smoothness & flicker.

What will it look like? - It will be
professionally finished off in a nice
box with a pretty logo.

What happens if it doesn't work with my
monitor? - We hope the finished device
will be 'firmware upgradable' so any
'tweaking' required can be updated by
the user.

Will I need a specific monitor type? -
No.  Any monitor with an (S)VGA input
can be used, including TFT's! Probably
best to steer clear of older CRT
monitors.

Will it do anything else? - The
developer predicts enhancements such as
'hot keys' for mutiple computer
switching, mouse control & other ideas.
These extra features will cost more so
for the time being the first units will
be simple Commodore video & sound
in/out converters.

What about the sound? - Sound is taken
from the c64 audio/video port & output
through a stereo jack port For more
info visit www.commodorescene.org