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- Path: grafix.xs4all.nl!john.hendrikx
- Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 20:46:00 GMT+1
- Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
- Distribution: world
- Subject: Re: BeBox Is Here. Listen Closely ESCO
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- From: john.hendrikx@grafix.xs4all.nl (John Hendrikx)
- Message-ID: <john.hendrikx.488p@grafix.xs4all.nl>
- Organization: Grafix Attack BBS Holland
-
- In a message of 21 Jan 96 Mjp3783@vaxb.isc.rit.ed wrote to All:
-
- >> Well, a while back someone posted that the memory footprint of the OS was
- >> about 5 Mb. This is not all *that* much more than the nearest equivalent
- >> Amiga. Sure, if you compare to a bare Amiga running 640x200x2, you can
- >> boot in 1 Mb, but this is not an equivalent system.
-
- Mvi> First, a bare Amiga can boot in 256k, or 1 meg if you want to have the
- Mvi> OS in ram.
-
- A bare C-64 can boot in much less than that.
-
- >> On my Amiga the Workbench screen *alone* is over a Mb, not to mention
-
- Mvi> No. My system, with my telecom program loaded has used < 1 mb. Closer
- Mvi> to 650k or so with OS in RAM.
-
- That doesn't say much about his system now does it? Maybe he is using a
- Workbench 'slightly' bigger than yours?
-
- >> all the utilities that I load to get the system up to a reasonable level
- >> of functionality (disk cache, buncha commodities, a decent shell,
-
- Mvi> - all of this is by choice, not what is necessary for os functionality
- Mvi> (I don't use any non-C= utils).
- Mvi> - all of these will appear for the BeBox, like they did for the Mac
- Mvi> - none of this is counted in base OS size
-
- Who says? Maybe Be was 'smart' and told you that 5 MB is the minimum to get
- the thing working at a reasonable level, like 1 or 2MB is on the Amiga (my
- Amiga won't boot with less than 2MB). If you 'strip' down the Be, run in 1-bit
- 320x200 screens, remove all the external hardware except for a floppy drive you
- might get it boot in 2MB as well. It is silly however to except the BeBox to
- boot in 2MB, just like it is silly to expect a Amiga to be usefull when you've
- only got 512K in it.
-
- >> etc... my system takes about 3 Mb after boot). Then the Be is running
- >> RISC CPU, which adds some overhead, and has features AmigaOS lacks
- >> (resource tracking, memory protection, VM, etc), which also adds some.
-
- Mvi> Resource tracking and memory protection could be added in less than
- Mvi> 5k.
-
- Oh sure, 5K, but that's just counting the code-size.
-
- Mvi> The Amiga doesn't really need (and I hope it never has) VM. If we
- Mvi> keep OS and app memory usage down, together with dropping memory
- Mvi> prices, it is unnecessary.
-
- Of course the Amiga needs VMEM, the reason that I (even if I were the only one)
- use it from time to time is proof that the *need* exists, even on Amiga. You
- can't expect me to buy 16 MB of extra RAM for the 5 minutes/week I actually
- NEED that amount of RAM.
-
- I don't want to see apps keeping memory usage down at the expense of features
- like is happening now. They are actually LIMITING the programs so they run on
- 1MB or 2MB Amiga's.
-
- >> It doesn't seem that bad to me.
-
- Mvi> It does to me. 5 out of the initial 16 mb down the tubes just for the
- Mvi> OS? Win95 all over again...
-
- You still think in Amiga terms. What if we were to compare Amiga to the C-64,
- hmm? C-64 user: "Damn, this Amiga
- -requires- a 512K ROM and a whopping 200K to BOOT at minimum (ie. 700K+)! Boy
- am I glad I use my C-64 which only eats about 30K orso and leaves the 38911
- other bytes free for my use!"
-
- Do you have any idea WHY Amiga's need so much more memory than a C-64? Where
- does all that space go? Name me a few things if you like. If you figured it
- out, than apply this to the BeBox and you'll see what I mean.
-
- The BeBox is a different machine, a next generation machine. It has a RISC-OS,
- it doesn't use crappy 2-bit 640x200 screens as standard, it's got all the
- features AmigaOS has and many more...
-
- Things like that take space, not only code-space (and RISC code is generally a
- lot bigger too) but what about having to store 24-bit Icons in memory, and
- having a 640x480 24-bit screen as standard and stuff like that. Also parts of
- windows overlapping will take much more to store when running in 24-bit, and so
- on...
-
- Grtz John
-
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