> BTW, I'm a DECUS LUG Chairman here in Chicagoland. What ever happened to
> the issue between Kermit and DECUS, to put it briefly.
>
Nothing much. I had some discussions with Bill Mayhew, he was supportive,
he pulled the sensitive stuff off CompuServe -- to the extent that he could,
but that was about it. There was some talk about some kind of "profit"
sharing agreement between Columbia and the DECUS Library, but I can't locate
the correspondence on that just now, and anyway it would not make much sense.
I think the right thing is for DECUS to not distribute C-Kermit for VMS or
UNIX, etc, or the IBM version of MS-DOS Kermit (and of course, not Kermit 95)
-- leave all that to us. But that it should feel free to distribute the other
older DEC-specific versions for which there are occasional requests to have on
native media -- VT180, Rainbow, PDP-11, Pro 3xx, etc -- because we can't
provide these versions on native media (RX01, RX50, RK05, etc). (We used to
distribute the VT180 and Rainbow versions until our last VT180 and Rainbows
gave up the ghost.)
If DECUS wanted to sell Kermit software WITH the books, we could work out
something by which both sides could profit.
If you have any other ideas, I'd be glad to hear them.
- Frank
15-Mar-96 17:09:54-GMT,3543;000000000001
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cc: Billy Youdelman <billy@mix.com>, Jeffrey Altman <jaltman@columbia.edu>,
Terry Kennedy <terry@spcvxa.spc.edu>
In article <4ikaij$mha@caesar.ultra.net> you write:
: In article <4iii6a$jm8$1@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>,
: Kelvin Smith <74654.3313@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
: >One other thing I'd like to see in a new RSTS Kermit: No creation of
: >RMS attributes on an uploaded file unless the file is truly an RMS file
: >coming from another system. It's a nuisance to have to strip off
: >the attributes before certain programs will work properly (like using
: >PIP to concatenate multiple files).
:
: Sounds like a good idea. This might require some sort of file
: transfer option (defaulting to current behaviour), so as not to break
: existing applications, but it should be easy to put the necessary
: commands in the KERMIT.INI file. I'll put it on my list...
:
Hi John. Since it looks like you're going ahead with this, I figured I'd
put in my 2 cents.
First let's settle on a file naming convention. It's probably easiest to
keep the same filenames, but replace "K11" with something else that doesn't
conflict with any names that we have already -- perhaps just something dumb
like "KRS".
Second, I do hope you and Billy can get together on merging sources -- then
only RSX and IAS are left out in the cold, and this might be sufficient
incentive for somebody somewhere to merge that one in too. (Terry, maybe you
want to post this on DECUSserve?)
Third, as you may know, we gave up on trying to stuff complex file attributes
into A packets, and we settled on a different approach, called "labeled file
transfer", for transferring complex file objects like RMS indexed files, etc.
This has been implemented in C-Kermit for VMS and in C-Kermit for OS/2.
The trick would be to make Kermit-11 have a labeled mode just like VMS
C-Kermit, and for the two to be able to interoperate. Any thoughts on this,
Terry?
If you're interested in pursuing this, I will dig up the spec and send it
to you.
- Frank
19-Mar-96 20:29:29-GMT,1610;000000000001
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:22:46 -0500 (EST)
From: James.Carlson%UC.Edu@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU
Subject: software for a PDP 11/73
To: kermit@columbia.edu
Cc: James.Carlson@UC.Edu
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I work at the University of Cincinnati in the Chemistry department. I have a
DEC PDP11/73 microcomputer which is being used for data collection. I want to
transfer the data off of the PDP to a PC. Do you have a copy of Kermit
available for my system? The system is a PDP 11/73 running RSX-11M-PLUS V3.0
BL24D. I have a TK50 tape drive. cost?
James Carlson
carlsoje@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
19-Mar-96 20:30:32-GMT,2353;000000000011
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Note: FAB and ACL are not necessarily real labels.
POSTPROCESSING
Separate programs should be provided to translate a labeled file into a real
file, to be used in case the user forgot to SET FILE TYPE LABELED, or the file
was deposited by means other than Kermit. Such a program might have two
options (or come in two forms): interpret the labels, and simply strip the
labels.
(End)
You can find the VMS implementation in the file ckvfio.c in the Kermit
archives.
- Frank
22-Mar-96 7:46:10-GMT,2888;000000000001
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> Second, I do hope you and Billy can get together on merging sources -- then
> only RSX and IAS are left out in the cold, and this might be sufficient
> incentive for somebody somewhere to merge that one in too. (Terry, maybe you
> want to post this on DECUSserve?)
I can, but there aren't many RSX people there (Alan Frisbie was the main
one, and he doesn't log in any more). Given the apathy shown by the VMS
crowd, I think we might as well wait for someone to show up and complain,
and then pin a "volunteer" button on them 8-)
> Third, as you may know, we gave up on trying to stuff complex file attributes
> into A packets, and we settled on a different approach, called "labeled file
> transfer", for transferring complex file objects like RMS indexed files, etc.
> This has been implemented in C-Kermit for VMS and in C-Kermit for OS/2.
>
> The trick would be to make Kermit-11 have a labeled mode just like VMS
> C-Kermit, and for the two to be able to interoperate. Any thoughts on this,
> Terry?
Yes. "Eeeew, yuck" 8-)
Seriously, while VMS and RSTS/E both use RMS, they're very different ver-
sions of RMS, and any labeled transfer code would have to know about them
and what things aren't compatible. Even DEC doesn't have a complete list -
I found quite a few new ones when I added labeled support to VMS (as you
may remember, one of my test cases was sending a file with the filespec of
SPC11Z"user password"::DISK:[p,pn]filnam.typ and seeing what happened. There
is special-case code in VMS C-K for this particular stuff).
Since the PDP-11 has a tight address space, I suggest we tell people to
put their VMS-to-RSTS and vice-versa files in BACKUP savesets (which are
compatible) and let the operating systems figure it out on the restore pass.
As long as RSTS/E Kermit supports non-RMS as well as RMS files and doesn't
turn one into the other [unless asked to?], I think we'll be fine (and far
better off than we are now). John, thanks again for volunteering!
Terry
10-Apr-96 22:35:24-GMT,2480;000000000011
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> By way of introduction, I work for Mentec Inc, who bought the PDP-11 software
> (operating systems / layered products etc) from Digital in '94.
>
Hi, Glad to meet you -- speaking as one who has (or had) been using PDP-11s
since the DOS-11 days (and -7s and -8s before that), and who once ran a huge
RSTS installation at Columbia (but then graduated to -10s and -20s, then to
UNIX, then away from DEC altogether -- the old story...)
> We are looking into the possibility of releasing a new version of RT-11
> (in all probability, the last)
>
> A common request amongst the RT-11 user community is that we distribute a
> copy of Kermit with new RT-11 distributions. (In fact this applies to RSX
> as well ... but that is not included in this request). This request is in
> part for convenience because most RT-11 systems are now DEC RX50 floppy or
> TK50 distributed. Users must find some other means to unpack Columbia's
> distributions (Mentec has been approached many times to do this).
>
> We have approached the author of K/RT (Billy Youdelman) and he too is keen
> on this idea. Billy's Kermit implementation was based on Brian Nelson's
> Kermit-11, so presumably this would also require Brian's permission ?
>
Brian retired from Kermit-11 development and support many years ago. However,
technically the source code does have a copyright notice on it that Brian put
there, so yes, we'll need to bring Brian in on this.
> We acknowledge that Columbia holds the distribution rights to the Kermit
> implementations, but would like to obtain permission for its inclusion
> in a toolkit for RT-11 to be distributed as an adjunct to the RT-11
> distribution. This would be as a no-additional cost inclusion to the user.
>
> Please could you advise on whether Columbia might be prepared to permit
> this distribution, and on whether we would need to approach Brian Nelson
> (do you have a means to contact him?) ?
>
I'll see if I can raise him. Meanwhile, there has been some resurgence of
interest in Kermit-11, and a new version seems to be in the works for RSTS;
i.e. folding RSTS support into KRT to make a new common version, and adding
some new features, etc -- I'm sure Billy told you about it.
I'm inclined to say "go ahead" since we obtain approximately zero revenue
from Kermit-11 distribution.
But I have to be careful. First I think we do need to clear it with Brian.
Second, in all good conscience we should consider the impact, if any, on
DECUS, as I believe they had been making some money from distributing
Kermit-11 on weird media (i.e. media that we don't have). But third, it might
set a bad precedent for us at Columbia. How can we be so strict about not
letting commercial outfits distribute MS-DOS Kermit or C-Kermit, but then
turn around and let your company distribute Kermit-11?
Clearly there would need to be some form of license, and it would need to be
nonexclusive. Whether you sell Kermit-11 or give it away would be up to you,
but I think Columbia would need to get something out of it, and probably also
Billy and/or Brian. The first step is for me to get in touch with Brian.
> Might Columbia be prepared to extend this permission to all the flavours
> of Kermit for PDP-11s or might we have to pursue this on a case by case
> basis?
>
If we can come to an arrangement, it should also cover all versions of
Kermit-11 -- RSX and IAS (and TSX+, but that's not yours), whatever other
odd variants there are, e.g. for Pro-3xx's (Pro/RT?)...
I'll get back to when I hear from Brian or my attempts to reach him time out.
- Frank
11-Apr-96 0:39:48-GMT,3252;000000000011
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> Firstly ... Full acknowledgement of Columbia, Brian and Billy would
> have to be made on the kit, and that it is being distributed with Columbia's
> permission solely as a benefit to users and without monetary benefit to
> Mentec.
>
> Billy has made a suggestion which I believe Mentec can accomodate and will
> represent his permission and direct problem support.
>
> As for benefits for Columbia, the immediate and obvious one is that you
> could be relieved the overhead of producion (and potentially the maintenance
> interface) for the Kermit-11 products. You did imply that Columbia gets
> virtually nothing from them now, so our doing the distribution for them
> would not really change what is status quo.
>
Well, virtually nothing is something on the order of $1000 a year in recent
years, so it's not *exactly* nothing. These days, every little bit helps.
> If we were selling Kermit, clearly royalties to Columbia would be in order,
> but this would add a level of complexity that would negate user benefits,
> and make it potentially more work for us than it might be worth.
>
> Any license to distribute would of course be non-exclusive, this would not
> be the goal. In this manner your distribution rights would be preserved,
> and Mentec would in essence be acting as your agents, with some pro-active
> distributions as well as on-demand distributions. This makes sense for
> a declining product base such as the PDP-11s, but certainly wouldn't for
> the more active products like PCKermit or C-Kermits.
>
> >If we can come to an arrangement, it should also cover all versions of
> >Kermit-11 -- RSX and IAS (and TSX+, but that's not yours), whatever other
> >odd variants there are, e.g. for Pro-3xx's (Pro/RT?)...
>
> Makes a lot of sense ... I wasn't sure how you might want to approach it.
>
Brian says:
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 05:28:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Nelson <BNELSON@nova.wright.edu>
Subject: Re: [Frank da Cruz <fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>: Re: Kermit for RT-11]
To: Frank da Cruz <fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>
Cc: BNELSON@nova.wright.edu
Frank,
Sorry for the delay, I've been in the hospital for a few days. I have no
problem with including k11 with rt11, fine with me.
brian
Brian Nelson
VMS and Network Systems Programing
bnelson@desire.wright.edu
2024 Sandown, Toledo, Oh 43615
419.531.7592
So that's out of the way. Of course you might want to get it writing from
him or something, that's up to you.
As for Columbia, I appreciate that this is a good thing in all ways but one,
namely the setting of precedents that might be hard for us to wiggle out of
later. To get around this, I'd ask one or both of the following:
1. Payment of an undisclosed (token) amount of money as a license fee.
2. Whenever you distribute a product that contains Kermit-11, you also
include a promotional flyer for other Kermit software -- after all,
people who need Kermit-11 will probably need a Kemit program on the
other end of the connection, and Columbia is where they should get
it from.
Are we getting there?
- Frank
17-Apr-96 1:16:53-GMT,3246;000000000011
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> I will forward this on to Mentec management ... when it comes to the monetary
> side of the business, this is not my area ... I'm trying to co-ordinate a
> product release from the technical side.
>
> Just as a matter of curiosity what kind of "token" amount are you looking at
> ? Are you looking at a one time fee or an annual fee etc ?
>
How about a one-time fee of $500.00?
> The promotional information for Kermit can certainly be included in kits
> distributed and sold by Mentec ... I don't forsee a problem there. BUT,
> because of our business arrangement with Digital, Digital also sells the
> product essentially as theirs. We may have problems even getting mention in
> the release notes for Digital kits. Such promotional information can
> certainly be included in readme info in the kit.
>
Whatever we can accomplish with Digital is to the good. As you probably know,
Kermit pretty much grew up in the Digital marketplace. They should be
receptive to the idea. But if they won't stuff a flyer, then readme material
is OK too.
> Would describing Mentec's position as a contracted agent to distribute
> kermit for PDP-11s on Columbia's behalf help in the precedent setting, and
> technical reasons could be provided for that ... e.g.ready to run on popular
> PDP-11 media?
>
Sure.
> That would then leave the only precedent as proactive distribution, and that
> comes down to the fact that as many customers migrate to other platforms, it
> will assist in that migration without having to bother Columbia or Mentec
> for the product.
>
Right. In fact, I have found that PDP-11 users tend to come to us in a panic
at migration time, begging for (say) RT-11 Kermit on an RX08, RK05, DECtape,
punched cards, or somesuch. (I don't actually imagine that you have these
devices :-) So this is definitely a good service, and a good deed, although
a bit melancholy, like being a pallbearer.
> So, I'll pass this on to Mentec management. I'll need some idea of what
> "token" means also, and your reactions to how we provide promotional info
> for Columbia.
>
A flyer printed on paper would be best, so they actually encounter it
physically. I can provide PostScript source. Just laser-printing it would be
fine. If you don't have a PostScript printer, I can even send the physical
flyers.
Sounds OK?
- Frank
26-Apr-96 3:59:11-GMT,3976;000000000011
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From: budd@cs.bu.edu (Phil Budne)
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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:56:59 -0400
Message-Id: <199604260356.XAA14248@csa.bu.edu>
To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu
Subject: misc
Hi,
I've seen several kermit postings from you in the last few days, which
made me think of a few items;
A few years ago I asked if the old documentation that had a simple C
kermit implementation was still available, and you said no. Recently
I gained access to a 1/2" tape drive, and I dug out my old DUMPER and
BACKUP-10 tapes, and found the above mentioned files;
home% gtar tzvf kerm.tar.gz
drwxrwxr-x phil/phil 0 Apr 25 23:44 1996 kerm/
-rw-rw---- phil/phil 1006 Oct 25 09:17 1982 kerm/conect.c
-rw-rw---- phil/phil 3401 Oct 25 09:02 1982 kerm/io.c
-rw-rw---- phil/phil 1349 Oct 25 08:59 1982 kerm/k.h
-rw-rw-r-- phil/phil 7536 Jun 10 23:53 1981 kerm/cmd.mac
-rw-rw-r-- phil/phil 127493 Jun 23 16:04 1983 kerm/kermit.mac
> A few years ago I asked if the old documentation that had a simple C
> kermit implementation was still available, and you said no. Recently
> I gained access to a 1/2" tape drive, and I dug out my old DUMPER and
> BACKUP-10 tapes, and found the above mentioned files;
> ...
> Let me know if any of this is of any interest to you, and I'll
> drop it via FTP...
>
Wow -- some of those files are 18 years old, and definitely long-lost here.
By all means tar them up (so as to preserve the dates) and drop them into
kermit/incoming on kermit.columbia.edu (login as anonymous).
> Also On my tapes I found a copy of the chapter you wrote for the never
> published book about PDP-10's by Les Earnest and Joe Dempster. All of
> the chapters I have have been made publicly available, except yours.
> Les and Joe gave me permission to distribute them, IFF I got
> permission from the authors, so I'm asking!
>
OK, fine. Just replace "Second Draft" with:
Copyright (C) 1988, Frank da Cruz and Christine Gianone.
All rights reserved.
(Just on the infinitesimal chance that it might ever find its way into a
book or magazine some day...) And let me know where you put it.
> P.S. Rereading it, I don't recall ever having heard that the
> DECSYSTEM-20 name was the result of a slip of the Caps Lock key (and I
> worked at LCG in the 80's).
>
I can't remember exactly who told me that, but it was definitely a DEC LCG
insider. Maybe it was a joke but they did say it.
- Frank
2-May-96 6:42:22-GMT,2735;000000000411
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> However, in the meantime, we're investigating some of the more esoteric
> "ANSI"-based "standards" like SCO ANSI and AT386, and we find that we might
> still need to preserve a degree of user control of color treatment in various
> situations, so not to worry :-)
>
> - Frank
OK, I'll wait and see! Thanks for responding to my questions. Its a real
honor to talk with the real "Kermit guy"! We've used Kermit for years
and years on PDP's, Vaxes and Alpha's and PC's. You can't find a better
program for any price. I look forward to using Kermit95. I'm
sending my order in today. Cheers.
3-May-96 13:48:55-GMT,1037;000000000001
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Hi John. Just touching base... Did anything come of your idea to upgrade
the RSTS version of Kermit-11 and integrate it with KRT?
Thanks!
- Frank
3-May-96 18:28:24-GMT,1550;000000000001
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To: Frank da Cruz <fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>, jasantos@ultranet.com
From: John Santos <jasantos@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Kermit 11
Hi -
At 11:35 AM 5/3/96 EDT, Frank da Cruz wrote:
>Hi John. Just touching base... Did anything come of your idea to upgrade
>the RSTS version of Kermit-11 and integrate it with KRT?
>
>Thanks!
>
>- Frank
>
Yup,but very slowly. I have my changes integrated into about 2/3
of Billy Youdelman's source files for the new version of KRT which I downloaded
about two months ago, so at this rate, I should be done in a month! When
that's done, I'll see what he's updated since, and re-integrate the changes
(which shouldn't take very long), and get them off to anyone who wants to
test (Kelvin Smith has volunteer to be a test site, and I think a few other
people have expressed interest; I'll have to check my mail.) Anyway, I
should have something in about a month.
John Santos
3-May-96 13:48:55-GMT,1037;000000000405
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John -- in case you want to unleash it on any unsuspecting testers...
Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 09:49:00 -0400
From: Bob Sydnor <bsydnor@nando.net>
Organization: Independent Data Processing
To: Frank da Cruz <fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: Kermit95 feature question
> Thanks! Btw, you don't happen to still have any PDP-11s around, do you?
> If so, which OS's? There seems to be a revival of interest in PDP-11
> Kermit...
Just a lone PDP 11/83 running RSTS/E V9.6-11. If it's of any use to you,
I'll offer it as a BETA site.
Thx.
8-May-96 21:58:38-GMT,3226;000000000001
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Documentation (in text mode) is in kermit/b/k11*.doc (or *.ps if you have
a PostScript printer). You'll need to figure out how to get it onto your
machine. Maybe some of the people on the cc list can offer some hints, or
maybe it is available from DECUS on the required media.
I hope this helps. Let me know how it goes.
- Frank
5-Feb-97 9:43:21-GMT,1277;000000000011
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Message-ID: <32F8571E.5198@csir.co.za>
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:47:11 +0200
From: Sean Tuling <stuling@csir.co.za>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
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To: kermit@columbia.edu
Subject: Kermit for PDP-11 running RSX11M+
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi,
How do I order Kermit for DEC RSX11M+ via e-mail? What is the cost?
Thank you.
Regards
Sean Tuling
24-Sep-97 19:24:50-GMT,1716;000000000011
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Subject: Re: Kermit on DEC RSX11M operating system
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>
>> I'm looking for some way to make a PDP11 running RSX11M os communicate with
>> a unix box over phone lines. So, I wonder wether kermit runs on RSX11M on a
>> PDP11 ?
>>
>Yes. We don't have a pdp-11 section on our website yet, but the files are
>all there nevertheless:
>
> ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/k11*.*
>
>- Frank
Hi Frank,
Thanks for your mail, but we're a bit lost about the files we must choose
in kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/k11*.* because there are so many !
Should we really get k11*.* to use kermit on RSX11M or only a subset of
this ?
Also, we don't understand some files extensions like .hex for instance, are
these
files necessary to build kermit11 ? we're not RSX11M specialists as you can see
but we have to make this box communicate...
Well, could you help a little more please ?
Thanks.
Richard Beneyt.
Richard Beneyt
24-Sep-97 19:31:20-GMT,1381;000000000011
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Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:33:10 -0400
From: dl <dlinke@wwnet.com>
Reply-To: dlinke@wwnet.com
Organization: MST
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To: kermit@columbia.edu
Subject: Kermit software use
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Dear Sir/Madam,
I have been contracted by a General Motors Plant to connect a PC to a
PDP-11 (RSX operating) system for the purpose of transferring data. I
need to know what requirements, purchases (if any) I must fulfill
inorder to install and use kermit on their system.
Secondly, what media type (ex: 8 inch floppy, 5.25, etc. does the RSX
version reside on.
Thank you.
Dennis Linke
26-Sep-97 21:58:51-GMT,9241;000000000005
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I think you can answer this better than I at the moment.
---------------
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Do you have a Web browser? If so, please take a look
at our PDP-11 Kermit Web page:
http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html
> please answer me to ruslan@lcs.krasnoyarsk.su
>
The home of the big radar? :-)
- Frank
1-Oct-97 1:39:04-GMT,1784;000000000011
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> > Do you have a Web browser? If so, please take a look
> > at our PDP-11 Kermit Web page:
> >
> > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html
>
Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2], directory
kermit/b, text mode, files mp*.*. This is quite old and we don't
know anything about it except what is written in the accompanying
documentation files. Good luck!
- Frank
2-Oct-97 1:39:15-GMT,1599;000000000011
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--------------------------end of changes-----------------------
4-Nov-97 2:27:07-GMT,5583;000000000015
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In article <66771g$8nu$1@o.online.no>, haugstad <haugstad@online.no> wrote:
>Does anyone know, is PDP11/04 and RT11 Y2K compliant ?
>Have anyone tried such system with dates after year 2000 ?
It depends on what version of RT-11 you're running. Versions before
5.6 won't display or accept years after 1999. In 5.6, the monitors
became "aware" of years through 2099, and in 5.7 all the standard
system utilities had support for 21st century dates added. (Some
other 5.6 bugs were fixed, too, in 5.7.)
Of course, any applications you're currently running will probably
have to be updated for 2000-2099 support, but that's your problem.
If you've got the source, it's straightforward.
Naturally, if none of your applications really depend on the system
date, you can just remain in the 20th century while the rest of
the world goes into the 21st. That's your decision, and in some
cases it may, indeed, be the most prudent decision.
Stuart Brook and Chip Charlotte at Mentec are the folks who can tell
you how to get RT-11 5.7. It does run on a PDP-11/04, though one issue
you may have to deal with on non-extended-memory CPU's like your 11/04
is the replacement of the SJ monitor with SB.
Good places to discuss RT-11 issues are "vmsnet.pdp-11" and "alt.sys.pdp11".
Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca)
17-Dec-97 15:03:53-GMT,1981;000000000401
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Message-ID: <3497E970.700A@corpjet.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:02:08 -0500
From: Chuck Noll <cnoll@corpjet.com>
Reply-To: cnoll@corpjet.com
Organization: Corporate Jets, Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: kermit-support@columbia.edu
Subject: Kermit on PDP-11
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have just received my kermit tape and loaded the files onto a DEC
PDP-11 computer running version 9.5 of RSTS/E. I need to get the
non-resident version of kermit running(k11nrs). I am having problems
creating a task image(k11nrs.tsk) from the hex file(k11nrs.hex).
According to the documentation, I should switch my keyboard monitor to
basic, which I do, and the bring in the kermit hex conversion
program(old k11hex). When I do this I get the following error messages.
?Line too long, This is displayed 10 times followed by :
?End of file on device
If I then run k11hex, I just get another monitor prompt.
I believe that my basic was generated for 4-word Basic.
I only have two users left on this beast, however, I need to get files
off of this system periodically to load on to our accounting system on
another platform.
Can you please help ?
Thank you
Chuck Noll
MIS Director
Corporate Jets, Inc.
cnoll@corpjet.com
19-Dec-97 7:07:16-GMT,8621;000000000001
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Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:57:38 -0500
From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>
To: Frank da Cruz <fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>,
Chuck Noll
<cnoll@corpjet.com>
Subject: Re: [Chuck Noll <cnoll@corpjet.com>: Kermit on PDP-11]
> We have a pdp11/73 running RSX (I think). Is this operating system
> year 2000 compliant? We have a vendor trying to hold us up. Any
> information will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you
> --
> Bo
>
> replace the " dot " in my address with a .
Depends on the version of RSX ...
RSX-11M+ V4.5, Micro/RSX V4.5, RSX-11M V4.7
are all year 2000 ready
For more information look at http://www.mentec.com and follow the PDP-11
software links.
We are currently working on new options for the RSX family with a
possible new release.
Stuart Brook
PDP-11 Software Engineering
Mentec Inc.
(FYI Mentec acquired much of the PDP-11 software from Digital a few
years ago and has been doing engineering since.)
20-Mar-98 3:39:23-GMT,4128;000000000001
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I like to introduce myself, G.Suresh Kumar. Working as Service Engineer in INDIA.
I am working with PDP11 system which was shipped along with the GenRad In-Circuit Tester, USA. Model:GR2276XP. The System is not having Kermit S/w on the Winchester Drive.
This ICT has One Background Terminal(VT100) and another Foreground Terminal. I was trying to tansfer the DATA/File from PDP11/GR2276 through VT100 terminal to IBM PC.
The procedure i followed was according to the your Document "KRTHEX.MAC"
1) A Null modem cable is connected between PC COM port and VT100 terminal or Background terminal.
2) I configured the HyperTerminal to 9600 speed, parity bit - nil, stop bit - 1, flow control - X-on/X-off.
3) SET the delay in ASCII setup to - Line delay 10ms and Character Delay 10ms. Not successful. Again Tried the same with 100ms.
5) I am able to see the characters sending one by one clearly on IBM PC monitor, but unable to trace out on PDP11/2276.
On the PDP11/2276 side:
6) The VT100 terminal is connected to PC COM. port.
7) Logged on to the User account on to FOREGROUND terminal.
7a) Entered into MCR (Monitor Console Routine) mode.
8) Entered into PIP task.
9) The following command is entered
PIP>KRT.HEX=TT1:
Description:
PIP> indicates PIP(Peripheral Interface Program) task, KRT.HEX is the
destination file name where the Data to be stored in and TT1 is input
terminal i.e., VT100.
10) Pressing Return key, the PDP11/2276 monitor should get ( ^ ) Circumflex or
up-arrow at the prompt,Which indicates the PDP11/2276 system is ready for input of data from the
specified terminal.
[Problem]
At this point I am unable to get the (^ ) Circumflex on the PDP11/2276 Foreground Monitor
11) At this instant I am sending the ASCII file from the PC COM port, which I am able to visualize the characters on PC monitor. PDP11/2276 - on the Winchester Drive, I am able to see the specified input file i.e., KRT.HEX in the default UIC or location of Winchester Drive. After cross checking for the contents, the file size is Zero.
What I understood from the PIP>KRT.HEX=TT1: is that when ever I give this
command, it (PDP11/2276) is creating Destination file name on the default UIC,
here it is KRT.HEX.
Try to throw some light on where i am doing wrong?
Please suggest me to proceed further.
Awaiting for your reply.
Thanks and regards,
Suresh
--Boundary_(ID_lpg6FYIqYkVAh3kMRBT3zA)
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I request you to help me to get the Notes prepared by Terry Kennedy and if possible please pass on his e-mail ID.
Once again thank you very much for pointing the Fault where i am doing wrong(Reg: following of procedure for Data Transfer). Whatever you said, i agree with your comment.
Can you pass on the concerned person at Columbia university, so that i can request him for the notes prepared by Terry Kennedy.
Thread-Topic: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM
Thread-Index: AcVgo244wyN5SrRHRWCARPKBSOFHQA==
From: "Segal, Alan S." <Alan.Segal@uvm.edu>
To: <kermit@columbia.edu>
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To the good folks at the KERMIT Project,
I read on your website (http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html) that the Kermit project does not have any PDP-11 computers in house and that you have never been able to make Kermit-11 available on PDP-11 format media. I am hoping to help the Kermit project in this respect, as I can make KRTMIN available to you on a RX50 formatted 5.25" diskette that will boot RT-11 operating systems RT11SJ or RT11XM on a PDP-11.
Using a DOS program named PUTR (www.dbit.com/putr, freeware for hobbyists, although the Kermit project might need a license) it is also possible to make copies of these diskettes using any double-sided double density (but not high density) 5.25" diskettes, which are still widely available. Using the PUTR program, these DSDD 5.25" diskettes can be formatted as an RX50/RT11 diskette, which can then be used as a boot floppy on a real PDP-11. The diskette will boot either RT11SJ or RT11XM, and KRTMIN can be run from the RT-11 . prompt.
I would like to send you two diskettes (one RT11SJ and one RT11XM) so that you would have some native PDP-11 media that will boot these RT-11 operating systems and include the 3 Kermit-11 files needed to run KRTMIN (KRTMIN.INI, KRTMIN.HLP, and KRTMIN.SAV). I have tested these on two PDP-11 (an 11/23 and an 11/73, and they both work perfectly).
Please let me know where I should send the diskettes, and if you require any other information. Below I have included the method for using PUTR to make more RX50 diskettes that will boot RT11SJ or RT11XM and run KRTMIN.
Thank you for keeping the Kermit Project going all these years.
===========================
Alan Segal, M.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Medicine (Nephrology)
Department of Pharmacology
Department of Molecular Physiology & Biophysics
-----------------------
PUTR: A PC Interface for the PDP-11
PUTR is a program written by John Wilson (518-271-6824 and wilson@dbit.com) to allow the PC to format, read, and write floppy discs for the PDP-11. In our case, we exclusively use RX50 formatted 5.25" discs with the RT-11 operating system.
PUTR.com is a DOS program, so double-clicking will open a DOS window and immediately execute the PUTR.INI file that can be used to set preferences and run common commands. This file should at least contain the line:
SET COPY BINARY
so that all copy commands will be done in a binary fashion.
Our 5.25" floppy drive is the A: drive on the Pentium.
To FORMAT a double density (360 kB) 5.25" floppy as RX50 for RT-11:
FORMAT A: /RX50 /RT11
Once a diskette is formatted, it needs to be MOUNTed:
MOUNT A: /RX50 /RT11
To copy PDP-11 files residing in the PDP-11\RT11 directory on the F: drive of the PC:
COPY /binary F:\PDP-11\RT11\*.* A:
Now, if you want to make this diskette a boot floppy:
BOOT A:
Answer the prompts for the monitor (e.g., RT11SJ.SYS or RT11XM.SYS) and the driver (e.g., DU.SYS or DUX.SYS, respectively)
To read an (old) RX50 disc containing PDP-11 files and copy them to the PC:
First, the volume must be MOUNTed:
MOUNT DU0: A: /RT11
Then you can look at the directory the same way you would on the PDP-11:
DIR DU0:
To COPY files from the diskette to the PDP-11\RT11 directory on the PC:
COPY /binary DU0:*.* F:\PDP-11\RT11\*.*
Once that is done, you can use the procedure above to format a new PC diskette and copy the files back to the new diskette.
-------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:36 EDT
From: Frank da Cruz <fdc@columbia.edu>
To: "Segal, Alan S." <Alan.Segal@uvm.edu>
Subject: Re: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM
Thread-Topic: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM
Thread-Index: AcVgo244wyN5SrRHRWCARPKBSOFHQA==
From: "Segal, Alan S." <Alan.Segal@uvm.edu>
To: <kermit@columbia.edu>
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To the good folks at the KERMIT Project,
I read on your website (http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html) that the Kermit project does not have any PDP-11 computers in house and that you have never been able to make Kermit-11 available on PDP-11 format media. I am hoping to help the Kermit project in this respect, as I can make KRTMIN available to you on a RX50 formatted 5.25" diskette that will boot RT-11 operating systems RT11SJ or RT11XM on a PDP-11.
Using a DOS program named PUTR (www.dbit.com/putr, freeware for hobbyists, although the Kermit project might need a license) it is also possible to make copies of these diskettes using any double-sided double density (but not high density) 5.25" diskettes, which are still widely available. Using the PUTR program, these DSDD 5.25" diskettes can be formatted as an RX50/RT11 diskette, which can then be used as a boot floppy on a real PDP-11. The diskette will boot either RT11SJ or RT11XM, and KRTMIN can be run from the RT-11 . prompt.
I would like to send you two diskettes (one RT11SJ and one RT11XM) so that you would have some native PDP-11 media that will boot these RT-11 operating systems and include the 3 Kermit-11 files needed to run KRTMIN (KRTMIN.INI, KRTMIN.HLP, and KRTMIN.SAV). I have tested these on two PDP-11 (an 11/23 and an 11/73, and they both work perfectly).
Please let me know where I should send the diskettes, and if you require any other information. Below I have included the method for using PUTR to make more RX50 diskettes that will boot RT11SJ or RT11XM and run KRTMIN.
Thank you for keeping the Kermit Project going all these years.
===========================
Alan Segal, M.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Medicine (Nephrology)
Department of Pharmacology
Department of Molecular Physiology & Biophysics
-----------------------
PUTR: A PC Interface for the PDP-11
PUTR is a program written by John Wilson (518-271-6824 and wilson@dbit.com) to allow the PC to format, read, and write floppy discs for the PDP-11. In our case, we exclusively use RX50 formatted 5.25" discs with the RT-11 operating system.
PUTR.com is a DOS program, so double-clicking will open a DOS window and immediately execute the PUTR.INI file that can be used to set preferences and run common commands. This file should at least contain the line:
SET COPY BINARY
so that all copy commands will be done in a binary fashion.
Our 5.25" floppy drive is the A: drive on the Pentium.
To FORMAT a double density (360 kB) 5.25" floppy as RX50 for RT-11:
FORMAT A: /RX50 /RT11
Once a diskette is formatted, it needs to be MOUNTed:
MOUNT A: /RX50 /RT11
To copy PDP-11 files residing in the PDP-11\RT11 directory on the F: drive of the PC:
COPY /binary F:\PDP-11\RT11\*.* A:
Now, if you want to make this diskette a boot floppy:
BOOT A:
Answer the prompts for the monitor (e.g., RT11SJ.SYS or RT11XM.SYS) and the driver (e.g., DU.SYS or DUX.SYS, respectively)
To read an (old) RX50 disc containing PDP-11 files and copy them to the PC:
First, the volume must be MOUNTed:
MOUNT DU0: A: /RT11
Then you can look at the directory the same way you would on the PDP-11:
DIR DU0:
To COPY files from the diskette to the PDP-11\RT11 directory on the PC:
COPY /binary DU0:*.* F:\PDP-11\RT11\*.*
Once that is done, you can use the procedure above to format a new PC diskette and copy the files back to the new diskette.
-------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:36 EDT
From: Frank da Cruz <fdc@columbia.edu>
To: "Segal, Alan S." <Alan.Segal@uvm.edu>
Subject: Re: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM
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Wow!! I never expected to get a message back from you....Dr. Kermit himself!! I am honored.
And, it is a small world because I have also met Lee Lidofsky....I work with his son Steve, who is a gastroenterologist and researcher in my department!
Here is what I will be sending to you on Double-Sided Double-Density "IBM diskettes" formatted for the PDP-11 as RX50 media using PUTR:
1. PDP-11 Boot Diskette with RT11SJ (v. 5.04B) and KRTMIN (v. 3.62_5)
2. PDP-11 Boot Diskette with RT11XM (v. 5.05) and KRTMIN (v. 3.62_5)
I have tested both diskettes on a PDP-11/23 and PDP-11/73. The minimal version of Kermit (KRTMIN) runs properly on both machines.
Please let me know that they work for you, that you are able to make copies, and if I can be of any further assistance.
All the best,
Alan
________________________________
From: Frank da Cruz [mailto:fdc@columbia.edu]
Sent: Wed 5/25/2005 10:30 AM
To: Segal, Alan S.
Subject: Re: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM
> To the good folks at the KERMIT Project,
>
> I read on your website (http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html) that
> the Kermit project does not have any PDP-11 computers in house and that
> you have never been able to make Kermit-11 available on PDP-11 format
> media. I am hoping to help the Kermit project in this respect, as I can
> make KRTMIN available to you on a RX50 formatted 5.25" diskette that will
> boot RT-11 operating systems RT11SJ or RT11XM on a PDP-11.
>
That would be terrific.
> Using a DOS program named PUTR (www.dbit.com/putr, freeware for hobbyists,
> although the Kermit project might need a license) it is also possible to
> make copies of these diskettes using any double-sided double density (but
> not high density) 5.25" diskettes, which are still widely available. Using
> the PUTR program, these DSDD 5.25" diskettes can be formatted as an
> RX50/RT11 diskette, which can then be used as a boot floppy on a real
> PDP-11. The diskette will boot either RT11SJ or RT11XM, and KRTMIN can be
> run from the RT-11 . prompt.
>
That's good to know. The only PC I still have with 5.25" diskettes is a
PC/AT; I believe one of them is 360K (DD). I haven't turned it on in a few
years!
> I would like to send you two diskettes (one RT11SJ and one RT11XM) so that
> you would have some native PDP-11 media that will boot these RT-11
> operating systems and include the 3 Kermit-11 files needed to run KRTMIN
> (KRTMIN.INI, KRTMIN.HLP, and KRTMIN.SAV). I have tested these on two
> PDP-11 (an 11/23 and an 11/73, and they both work perfectly).
>
> Please let me know where I should send the diskettes, and if you require
> any other information. Below I have included the method for using PUTR to
> make more RX50 diskettes that will boot RT11SJ or RT11XM and run KRTMIN.
>
Address below.
> Thank you for keeping the Kermit Project going all these years.
>
Thanks for your generous offer! My first real computing job was in a lab
that had PDP-11s. I used them for about 10 years, they were lovable, fun,
and useful, compared to today's consumer-oriented products. You probably
saw my story here (towards the bottom):
http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/pdp11.html
> Alan Segal, M.D.
> Associate Professor
> Department of Medicine (Nephrology)
> Department of Pharmacology
> Department of Molecular Physiology & Biophysics
Thanks again.
- Frank
Frank da Cruz
The Kermit Project
Columbia University
612 West 115th Street
New York NY 10025-7799
USA
Email: fdc@columbia.edu
Voice: +1 212 854-3508
Fax: +1 212 662-6442
http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/
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Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:19:50 EDT
From: Frank da Cruz <fdc@columbia.edu>
To: "Segal, Alan S." <Alan.Segal@uvm.edu>
Subject: RE: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM