ftp.cdrom.com/pub/cdrom//cdrom.tar/cdrom/cdpub/cdp9307.dig

Text File | 1993-09-25 | 50KB | 1,241 lines

CDPub Digest                Thu,  2 Sep 93       Volume   93: Issue   7

Today's Topics:
   +Postage Due+Re: Sony CDW 900e Mastering Unit capable of multi-s
                     access to comp.publish.cdrom
                   A couple of informative articles
                   CDD521 reading from it. (2 msgs)
            cdrom publishing news groups created. (3 msgs)
                      cdrom security. (13 msgs)
                     Data citation and ownership
                              MTC discs
                    Multiple Data Tracks (7 msgs)
                 pq & r-w subchannel codes. (2 msgs)
                      Reading/writing audio CDs
              Software to support Multi-session on Macs
        Sony CDW 900e Mastering Unit capable of multi-session?
                               VPIEJ-L

                   M o n t h l y        A r c h i v e

                   o f

           CDPub, the CD-R & CD-Rom Publishing Discussion List

       Send Mail-Server commands to: [e-mail]

                Send submissions to: [e-mail]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 93 18:17:21 EDT
From: Gess Shankar <[e-mail]>
Subject: +Postage Due+Re: Sony CDW 900e Mastering Unit capable of multi-s
"Torsten Droste[totronik]" <emory!CompuServe.COM!100064.1346> writes:

> Hi Gess,
>
> as the format of an Audio CD is PCM the CDD521 writes directly 2352 bytes
> of PCM sound data. No conversion is necessary!
>

This is assuming that the data is available as 2352 byte blocks complete
with ecc etc. I am assuming if you are able to read an audio cd (using
the Toshiba 3401 for example), each block read will be 2352 bytes?

As I understand it: If you have a PCM file [raw PCM using 44.1k sample/
stereo - by digitizing audio], then the philips unit needs some sort of
preformatting (may be to create the ecc bytes, headers etc...), whereas
the Sony apparently can take the raw PCM file and do the formatting on
the fly. At least that is my understanding. Is this not correct?

CD.GEN, a preformatting software I use, provides such a conversion
utility to format a raw PCM file to a formatted (2352 block size) file
suitable for the CDD521.

Thanks for your input. You may want to respond to the list so that
others can get the benefit of the discussion.

GeSS
--
Gess Shankar      |<><>|Internet: [e-mail]                |<><>|
Knowledge Exchange|<><>|{rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!uumind!knex!gess  |<><>|

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 AUG 93 20:26:07 BST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: access to comp.publish.cdrom
To: KNEXMAILER <[e-mail]>

Could you please let me know haw I can access the usenet group comp.publish
..cdrom. Also how can I access the archives of this newsgroup.
Thank you
V. Rajagopalan
London School of Economics
Houghton Street
LoNDON
WC2A 2AE
U.K.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Aug 93 11:59:16 EDT
From: Gess Shankar <[e-mail]>
Subject: A couple of informative articles
CD-R users and wanna-be's may be interested in a couple of articles
which appeared recently.

CD-Rom Professional May 1993
----------------------------
"Premastering and CD-WO Software for the PC - Evaluations of Top In-House
       Publishing Software" by Data Distribution Lab at the JPL

       This is a well-written piece giving an overview and background
       about CD-R and CD Production steps etc and reviews on five
       premastering software packages.

       CD.GEN from CD-Rom Strategies
       GEAR from Electroson
       Personal Publisher from Meridian
       Rom Maker from JVC
       QuickTopix from OMI

Well worth a read. It appears that the authors actually tried all the
packages and the article has the usual feature comparison tables etc.

NewMedia Magazine August 1993
-----------------------------
The TEST DRIVE section featured CD-ROM Recorders.

"Bake Your Own CDs: From Recipe to Reality" by David Biedny

Another useful article to find out what is out there. Not in depth,
but enough details to act as a starting point. CD-R recorders covered
are: JVC, SONY, KODAK, Philips and Pinnacle. Software covered are
CD.GEN, Personal Scribe (Meridian), Easy CD Pro from Incat Systems.

Both articles are well worth reading.

GeSS
--
Gess Shankar      |<><>| Internet: [e-mail]               |<><>|
CDPub List Admin. |<><>| {rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!uumind!knex!gess |<><>|
What is a CDRom?  |<><>| 3 billion pits arranged in a 3 mile spiral!    |<><>|

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Aug 93 12:32:36 PDT
From: Elisha Polomski <emory!cea.Berkeley.EDU!elwood>
Subject: CDD521 reading from it.
To: [e-mail]

How does one read from the CDD521??
We have ours hooked up with the Young Minds software,
the manual mentions that you can read useing the CD writer,
but does not explain how!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 93 22:09:28 EDT
From: Gess Shankar <[e-mail]>
Subject: CDD521 reading from it.
emory!cea.Berkeley.EDU!elwood writes:

>
> How does one read from the CDD521??
> We have ours hooked up with the Young Minds software,
> the manual mentions that you can read useing the CD writer,
> but does not explain how!
>

You don't say what environment you are using. Since it is YMI, I guess
that it is unix.

I am familiar only with the MsDos environment. Philips and premastering
software vendors provide ASPI drivers. The CDD521 becomes another
cd-rom drive... albeit a s..l..o..w one.

I am sure YMI provides drivers to enable the drive to be mounted as
a regular cdrom drive... I am sure others will be able to talk about
this with more knowledge...

GeSS
--
Gess Shankar      |<><>|Internet: [e-mail]                |<><>|
Knowledge Exchange|<><>|{rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!uumind!knex!gess  |<><>|

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 93 01:22:10 EDT
From: emory!standards.com!kaikow (Howard Kaikow)
Subject: cdrom publishing news groups created.
To: [e-mail]

I had the newsgroups added to the feed at csn.org.

You really should hook them into a listserver. It is expensive to follow
for those of us that do not have a local access number to our host computer.

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
> Just in case some of you have not heard, the new cdrom publishing usenet
> groups have been formed and should be available at most news feeds.
> The groups are comp.publish.cdrom.{software, hardware, multimedia}.
>
> Sincerely
> Henry Manaster
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 01:41 CST
From: "Bob (Moo Cow) Hyland, GM Terrace Thunderbirds" <emory!SLUVCA.SLU.EDU!HYLANDRA>
Subject: cdrom publishing news groups created.
To: [e-mail]

Hey, does anyone know if this newsgroup is available through compuserve?  My
University does not have Usenet.  Or, if there is a Telnet site, that would
be much better (as it would be free).  Any help would be appreciated.

Bob H.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 93 01:38:10 PDT
From: emory!inference.com!gloster (Vance M. Gloster)
Subject: cdrom publishing news groups created.
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]

  Hey, does anyone know if this newsgroup is available through compuserve?  My
  University does not have Usenet.  Or, if there is a Telnet site, that would
  be much better (as it would be free).  Any help would be appreciated.

This is available as a maillist (that is how I get it).  It is mailed
to me from [e-mail], and the name of the maillist is
[e-mail].  I think how you start getting mail is to
send a message which has the subject line and the message consist of:

SUBSCRIBE CDPub

to [e-mail].  It will pick up your address from the
mail header and mail to whatever account you are logged on as.  You
can do this from compuserve as well by putting INTERNET: in front of
all internet addresses.  Also you can read Usenet news from Michican
State or other sites using gopher if you have that.  It is a little
slow and not always available, and our gopher does not let you post
(only read).

A final option which is a lot cheaper than compuserve, but not free,
is to subscribe to Delphi or one of the other internet services.  I am
exploring getting a Delphi account, and the option which seems
attractive to me is $20 per month for up to 20 hours of usage ($1.40
per hour after that).  If you have an account you can telnet in, or
modem into their dialup lines.  They are running a special right now
where you get 5 free hours if you subscribe.  I am not trying to give
a sales pitch.  I wanted this information a month ago and it has taken
me some effort to get it.  I thought others might be interested.

-Vance Gloster
 [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1993 22:16:48 -0400
From: emory!yu1.yu.edu!manaster (Chaim Manaster)
Subject: cdrom security.
To: [e-mail]

>In reality, I think you have to expect your atorneys to protect you -- just as
>with print, very few books have been copied and republished even in the age of
>xerox machines.
>
The point of the issue I was raising when I began this thread was
"what protective devices can a cdrom publisher utilize that are
totally  technology dependant (based), and do not rely on legal
remedies.

Does your reply in fact mean to say that there are none, and ones
only recourse is legal (in ocurt!)?

Henry Manaster

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1993 8:24:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: emory!hq.nasa.gov!JVOGEL
Subject: cdrom security.
To: [e-mail]

>> Folio, for example, does have security built in.  One can refuse printing as
>> a right so that, while a user can screen print, he can't block the entire
>> document and copy that to disk.

>If it can be displayed or printed one screen at a time, a determined
>pirate can extract the information. As always, encryption and copy
>protection etc. probably hurt the legitimate users more than the
>determined pirate.

      and a determined monk with a quill pen can also violate your copyright.


>> In reality, I think you have to expect your attorneys to protect you just a
>> with print, very few books have been copied and republished even in the
>> age of xerox machines.
>
>Electronic publishing rights will be a big issue in the coming years
>(if not already). Proper legal protection (where available) will probably
>be the only recourse available. But piracy is going to be a fact of life,
>as in software, videos, music etc... which are easier and cheaper to
>reproduce than books.

        Very few pieces of commercial software now comes with copy protection.
        There is a reason for this.  Copy protection became the chief
        annoyance of computer users.  WordPerfect may be copied numerous
        times illegally, but most copies replace a shareware word processor
        that would have been used instead rather than a genuine lost sale.
        When a company (or the government) violates copyright in this way,
        it replaces a sale and the firm is out money, but at the same time,
        there is enough of a violation for the company to find it worthwhile
        to follow it up.

    Anytime an almanac tells you the capitol of Virginia is Richmond, you
    are in a position to make secondary use of someone's data.
    The idea that we own anyi information forever is one of the problems
    of the electronic age.

------------------------------

Date: Sun,  1 Aug 93 07:23:00 -0700
From: emory!spacebbs.com!kirk.jensen (Kirk Jensen)
Subject: cdrom security.
To: [e-mail] (CD-R & CDRom Publishing Discussion List)

C >From: [e-mail]
C >Subject: RE: cdrom security.
C >Sender: [e-mail]
C >Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
C >Reply-To: CD-R & CDRom Publishing Discussion List <[e-mail]>
C >Precedence: bulk
C >
C >Folio, for example, does have security built in.  One can refuse printing as
C >a right so that, while a user can screen print, he can't block the entire
C >document and copy that to disk.
C >In reality, I think you have to expect your atorneys to protect you -- just as
C >with print, very few books have been copied and republished even in the age of
C >xerox machines.

I doubt if you would get much agreement on that statement from the Publishing
Industry. In fact, books are copied illegally all the time, especially in
countries like Russia.

---
 ~ KingQWK 1.05 # 141 ~

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 22:27:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: emory!hq.nasa.gov!JVOGEL
Subject: cdrom security.
To: [e-mail]

>Date: Sun,  1 Aug 93 07:23:00 -0700
>From: emory!spacebbs.com!kirk.jensen
>Organization: Space BBS - 15 nodes - v.32bis - (415-323-4193)
JV >In reality, I think you have to expect your atorneys to protect you -- just a
JV >with print, very few books have been copied and republished even in the age o
JV >xerox machines.

>I doubt if you would get much agreement on that statement from the Publishing
>Industry. In fact, books are copied illegally all the time, especially in
>countries like Russia.

        That's hardly a failure of copy protection.  It's a failure of legal
        protection.  If a person can read it, they can beat copy protection
        on text files.  All you can do is make it annoying ; if it is
        sufficiently annoying the user will find another product.

        If they copy it and put it on hundreds of machines, hope for a
        disgruntled employee to turn them in.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 22:34:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: emory!hq.nasa.gov!JVOGEL
Subject: cdrom security.
To: [e-mail]

>The point of the issue I was raising when I began this thread was
>"what protective devices can a cdrom publisher utilize that are
>totally  technology dependant (based), and do not rely on legal
>remedies.
>
>Does your reply in fact mean to say that there are none, and ones
>only recourse is legal (in ocurt!)?
>
>Henry Manaster

        Yes there are a few.  One for example is Az-Tech Software
        800-227-0644 for a demo.  It is a Hardware lock they sell.

        There are others.  Look in the back (the small ads) in PC Mags.


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 08:53:59 -0400
From: Tom Lathrop 588-0677 <emory!sector.Kodak.COM!tgl>
Subject: cdrom security.
To: [e-mail]

Henry Manaster said:

> The point of the issue I was raising when I began this thread was
> "what protective devices can a cdrom publisher utilize that are
> totally  technology dependant (based), and do not rely on legal
> remedies.

> Does your reply in fact mean to say that there are none, and ones
> only recourse is legal (in ocurt!)?

SIGCAT, which is a (U.S. government?) group of CD users, and SIGCLASS,
presumably some sort of group dealing with classified documents, have
a draft for a specification for what they call "Secure CD". They
basically use sector 15 (the last sector before the CD-ROM PVD) as an
indicator as to whether the CD is encrypted, and if so, which encryption
method was used. Several levels are supported: you can encrypt individual
files and directories, leaving the rest of the ISO 9660 structures alone,
you can encrypt everything except the Primary Volume Descriptor, or you
can encrypt everything including the PVD.

Contact information:

Duane Marquis
Chairman, SIGCLASS
U.S. Department of Commerce
NTIA
179 Admiral Cochrane Drive
Annapolis, MD 21401

[phone] Local
[phone] Washington, DC

I don't have an e-mail address for him, although it's possible that he
has one.

I'm not sure this helps Mr. Manaster in the short term, as I believe that
this is still in draft form. There probably aren't any commercial
implementations yet.

Tom Lathrop
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 07:29:45 +1000
From: Danny Thomas <emory!mailbox.uq.oz.au!vthrc>
Subject: cdrom security.
To: CD-R & CDRom Publishing Discussion List <[e-mail]>

Henry Manaster (???) wrote:
>>The point of the issue I was raising when I began this thread was
>>"what protective devices can a cdrom publisher utilize that are
>>totally  technology dependant (based), and do not rely on legal
>>remedies.

to which [e-mail] replied:
(sorry can't use your name but address is all I could find in SMTP header;
an example of why a signature is useful instead of just aesthetic)
>        Yes there are a few.  One for example is Az-Tech Software
>        800-227-0644 for a demo.  It is a Hardware lock they sell.
>
>        There are others.  Look in the back (the small ads) in PC Mags.
>
at least this thread hasn't degenerated into one of those discussions about
copyright. Hardware locks are one approach, but I suspect that in the first
place Henry was asking if there are protective measures that are an
integral part of the data being transferred.
    To recast this into a specific question, I believe Kodak has defined a
locking mechanism as part of PhotoCD. Folios of images compiled from many
photo houses can be distributed but people have to purchase an access code
to unlock the high-resolution versions of the images they want. I assume
the locking code is buried in the PhotoCD format, so it's protection
continues while the image is is copied and transferred in that form.
    The real question with all these ideas is whether there are techniques
that prevent simple cutting & pasting of the unlocked data. As
mathematicians would say, "this is a non-trivial question". Well at least
to me it is, particularly since we are looking at open systems these days.
A vendor can't introduce such protection just in a secured
hardware/software workstation that they sell, no matter how good that
combination is. Data mobility and portability are fundamental aspects of
life.


cheers,
Danny Thomas  ([e-mail])

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Aug 93 07:51:56 EDT
From: Gess Shankar <[e-mail]>
Subject: cdrom security.
emory!mailbox.uq.oz.au!vthrc writes:

> at least this thread hasn't degenerated into one of those discussions about
> copyright. Hardware locks are one approach, but I suspect that in the first
> place Henry was asking if there are protective measures that are an
> integral part of the data being transferred.
>     To recast this into a specific question, I believe Kodak has defined a
> locking mechanism as part of PhotoCD. Folios of images compiled from many
> photo houses can be distributed but people have to purchase an access code
> to unlock the high-resolution versions of the images they want. I assume
> the locking code is buried in the PhotoCD format, so it's protection
> continues while the image is is copied and transferred in that form.

I don't think this technique is unique to Kodak and PhotoCD. I recall the
availability of a CD-Rom with a chockful of PostScript fonts (may be
from Adobe). You pay for a basic set and then by paying for and
obtaining an unlock code, you can get more or more font(s). This sort of
scheme will work for software also.

But such protection schemes may not work too well for databases and other
reference material. Hardware locks etc. may work for highly specialized
situations [vertical application... high price and perhaps relatively
small market], but I cannot see hardware locks working with CD-Rom.
Users have multiple CDs and CD-Rom is such a practical medium for
open distribution and multiple platform use, such restrictions may not
really fly.

>     The real question with all these ideas is whether there are techniques
> that prevent simple cutting & pasting of the unlocked data. As
> mathematicians would say, "this is a non-trivial question". Well at least
> to me it is, particularly since we are looking at open systems these days.
> A vendor can't introduce such protection just in a secured
> hardware/software work station that they sell, no matter how good that
> combination is. Data mobility and portability are fundamental aspects of
> life.
>
Well put. In the coming few years, cd-rom drives are likely to become
integral to work stations of all types. And here is a device that can
make data distribution across various platforms (unix, dos, os/2, macs,
amiga etc..) practical... what with developments like the Frankfurt
proposal and drives supporting such standards. In such an era, it may seem
regressive to invent encryption, locks and other restrictions.

Pricing and support/service strategies may be the methods publishers have
to employ to get/retain market share, just as software publishers have had
to do. Intellectual property rights, any one?

GeSS
--
Gess Shankar      |<><>| Internet: [e-mail]               |<><>|
CDPub List Admin. |<><>| {rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!uumind!knex!gess |<><>|
What is a CDRom?  |<><>| 3 billion pits arranged in a 3 mile spiral!    |<><>|

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 01:45:24 -0400
From: emory!yu1.yu.edu!manaster (Chaim Manaster)
Subject: cdrom security.
To: [e-mail]

>>The point of the issue I was raising when I began this thread was
>>"what protective devices can a cdrom publisher utilize that are
>>totally  technology dependant (based), and do not rely on legal
>>remedies.
>>
>>Does your reply in fact mean to say that there are none, and ones
>>only recourse is legal (in ocurt!)?
>>
>>Henry Manaster
>
>        Yes there are a few.  One for example is Az-Tech Software
>        800-227-0644 for a demo.  It is a Hardware lock they sell.
>
>        There are others.  Look in the back (the small ads) in PC Mags.

 If I am not mistaken, the hardware locks are useless in protecting
 the database, even if they work to protect the programming.

 The party needing to prevent unauthorized use of the software,
 could use the hardware locks, however, the database publisher who
 needs to protect the taking of the database (in order to
 republish) must protect that taking even (in particular) from an
 AUTHORIZED user, i. e., one who legitimately has the hardware
 dongle for the use of a single copy of the product.

 Correct me if I am wrong, and there is some hardware dongle that
 does the job I refer to. I would be most interested if it exists.

 Sincerely
 Henry Manaster

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 02:18:03 -0400
From: emory!yu1.yu.edu!manaster (Chaim Manaster)
Subject: cdrom security.
To: [e-mail]

    Henry Manaster said:

>> The point of the issue I was raising when I began this thread was
>> "what protective devices can a cdrom publisher utilize that are
>> totally  technology dependant (based), and do not rely on legal
>> remedies.
>
>> Does your reply in fact mean to say that there are none, and ones
>> only recourse is legal (in ocurt!)?
>
>SIGCAT, which is a (U.S. government?) group of CD users, and SIGCLASS,
>presumably some sort of group dealing with classified documents, have
>a draft for a specification for what they call "Secure CD". They
>basically use sector 15 (the last sector before the CD-ROM PVD) as an
>indicator as to whether the CD is encrypted, and if so, which encryption
>method was used. Several levels are supported: you can encrypt individual
>files and directories, leaving the rest of the ISO 9660 structures alone,
>you can encrypt everything except the Primary Volume Descriptor, or you
>can encrypt everything including the PVD.
>
>
>I'm not sure this helps Mr. Manaster in the short term, as I believe that
>this is still in draft form. There probably aren't any commercial
>implementations yet.
>
>Tom Lathrop
>[e-mail]

While I know nothing of the specification of which you speak, I
would guess that it is for "pure encryption" of the cdrom data.
By this I mean, that they are simply encrypting the data with some
"secure" methedology. That alone, is not adequate for the problem I
am addressing. The encryption needs to work in conjunction with of
the shelf retrieval software (or at least with some particular
retrieval software). This makes the problem much tougher.
Furthermore, in a sense, you are providing the potential pirate
with the key to any encryption when you sell him the cdrom with the
RETRIEVAL SOFTWARE on it. This, in a real sense can be a key to the
encryption in the hands of a computer sofisticate.

The government on the other hand, is not likely to be "selling"
their encrypted cdroms to anybody on the open market.

I do need to follow up and find out more about this specification,
maybe there is more to it than I am guessing.

Sincerely
Henry Manaster

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 93 00:11:33 PDT
From: emory!inference.com!hubbard (Bruce D. Hubbard)
Subject: cdrom security.
To: [e-mail]

I am curious.  Isn't the large volume of data on a CD a sort of security
in and of itself?  It should be enough to prevent wholesale copying of
data onto an individual's hard disks.  CDRom burners are not common yet,
are expensive, and are slow enough that they do not seem to provide an
avenue for commercial piracy, which should be your real concern.  If
someone began to reproduce your disks in a big way, wouldn't Copyright
law cover this? Meanwhile, the scope of the piracy would make legal
action an attractive remedy.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 12:35:15 -0400
From: emory!yu1.yu.edu!manaster (Chaim Manaster)
Subject: cdrom security.
To: [e-mail]

No, the size of the data on the vdrom affords little protection (in and of itself).
Hard drives of a Gig and more are becoming common and not a major investment.

Henry Manaster

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 14:19:07 EDT
From: Jon Schull  <emory!cvs.rochester.edu!schull>
Subject: cdrom security.
To: [e-mail]

Harry--

Here's another thread from anothher list which may be of interest to you
and the rest of us on CD-R.

While I'm here, thanks for all your fine work!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Schull
Academic Identity:  Visiting Professor
University of Rochester,   Center for Visual Science
259 Meliora Hall   Rochester, NY 14627-0270, 716-275-6848

Commercial Identity:  President, SoftLock Services,
963 East Ave.#1 Rochester NY 14607, 716-242-0348 (voice&fax)

Virtual Identity:  [e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------
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>Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 08:24:45 EDT
>From: Darren McKewen <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Data citation and ownership
>Sender: "Publishing E-Journals : Publishing, Archiving,              and Access"
> <[e-mail]>
>Resent-To: [e-mail]
>To: Multiple recipients of list VPIEJ-L <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: "Publishing E-Journals : Publishing, Archiving,              and Access"
> <[e-mail]>
>Resent-Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
>Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
>X-Envelope-To: [e-mail]
>X-Vms-To: IN%"[e-mail]"  "Multiple recipients of list VPIEJ-L"
>
>     Two questions regarding data in electronic publications
>     for which I would like to solicit the opinions and experiences of
>     list readers:
>
>     1)  CITATION:  How are specific sections sections of
>     electronic publications being cited?  Citation to print
>     publications relies on using a page number or page range to
>     direct readers to specific data; what formats are being used for
>     electronic publications?  Also, are there
>     widely accepted formats for citing the source (e.g. cites to
>     print periodicals generally identify a volume and issue number
>     and publication name, but no publisher; citations to books
>     generally include publisher and city of publication)?
>
>     2)  DATA OWNERSHIP:  What rights does a publisher have over
>     re-use of public domain data that publisher includes on an
>     electronic publication?  For example, if a CD includes the
>     text of a law--which is a public document in its original
>     form--can anyone use that electronic data without restriction?
>     What if the publisher has enhanced the value of that data by
>     tagging its content, e.g. with SGML tags?  What if original
>     public-domain material was only available in print form and the
>     publisher has scanned and keyed it to put it in electronic form;
>     is the electronic text now proprietary?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Aug 93 07:48:16 est
From: emory!bna.com!dmckewen (Darren McKewen)
Subject: Data citation and ownership
     Two non-technical questions regarding data on CDs for which I
     would like to solicit the opinions and experiences of list
     readers involved in CD publication:

     1)  CITATION:  How are specific sections sections of CD-ROMs
     being cited?  Citation to print publications relies on using a
     page number or page range to direct readers to specific data;
     what formats are being used for electronic publications,
     particularly CDs?  Also, are there widely accepted formats for
     citing the source (e.g. cites to print periodicals generally
     identify a volume and issue number and publication name, but no
     publisher; citations to books generally include publisher and
     city of publication)?

     2)  DATA OWNERSHIP:  What rights does a publisher have over
     re-use of public domain data that publisher includes on a CD?
     For example, if a CD includes the text of a law--which is a
     public document in its original form--can anyone use that
     electronic data without restriction?  What if the publisher has
     enhanced the value of that data by tagging its content, e.g. with
     SGML tags?  What if original public-domain material was only
     available in print form and the publisher has scanned and keyed
     it to put it in electronic form; is the electronic text now
     proprietary?

     Darren McKewen  Internet:  [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  9 Aug 93 13:00:42 PST
From: Christopher Rimple <emory!microsoft.com!crimp>
Subject: MTC discs
To: [e-mail]

I've just recently become aware of Mitsui Toatsu Chemical's "Airy"
blank CD-R discs, and have had a few people here at Microsoft testing
them.  Can anyone give me any information, good or bad, on the MTC
discs from their own experiences?  Thanks.

Chris

---------------------------------------------------------------
 Christopher Rimple    | [e-mail]  | One bad sector
 One Microsoft Way     | 206-936-5900 (voice) |    can ruin
 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | 206-936-7329 (fax)   | your whole day
---------------------------------------------------------------
 The views expressed in this message are my own and in no way
 reflect the views of Microsoft Corporation.
---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 1993 12:47:38 +0800
From: "Martin Hill"  <emory!icarus.curtin.edu.au!Martin>
Subject: Multiple Data Tracks
To: [e-mail]

>The Philips drive allows you to write multisession discs which are
>what you call multiple data tracks. Each data track is like a completely
>self-contained cd-rom, its own lead-in, data section, lead out, toc etc.
>CD-GEN software caters to this and also provides a ultility called PICKCD
>which allows you to select the data session when you use the drive as a
>simple reader. I haven't tried this utility on different drives so I
>can't vouch for its diversity as yet.

I've just been told that PhotoCD is the only multi-session format around,
but I take it you're pressing ISO-9660?

We've certainly been hoping to make ISO 9660 or hybrid Mac HFS/ISO
multi-session discs.

No doubt a generic version of PICKCD would be needed to access the other
sessions, but your average ISO-9660 capable multi-session CD-ROM reader
should be able to read this, yes?

ps. I've just talked to the supplier of the Sony CDW-900e here in Australia
and he swears that the new formatting software for the unit, which is in
beta at present, DOES give the Sony multi-session capablities, without a
hardware upgrade...
He's going to check with his suppliers back in the USA to give ultimate
confirmation.

-Mart

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Hill            Internet:  [e-mail]
Multimedia Consultant  QuickMail: Martin_Hill@3517415
Computing Centre       AppleLink: AUST0176
Curtin University      GPO Box U 1987,
Ph:[phone]        Perth 6001,
Fax:[phone]       Western Australia
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 18:15:29 -0400
From: Tom Lathrop 588-0677 <emory!sector.Kodak.COM!tgl>
Subject: Multiple Data Tracks
To: [e-mail]

Gess Shankar said:

> I have since talked to CD.Rom Strategies (CD.GEN vendors) and have been
> informed that the CDD521 will in fact make multiple data tracks (within
> one session) by writing more than one Virtual CD images without fixing
> and closing the session.

That's more of a function of the CD.GEN software than the writer. The
writer will write multiple tracks in a single session with whatever data
you tell it to write.

> When the CD is fixed, the TOC is updated and
> presto... you have multiple data tracks. How to read the second data
> track in whole another issue, however.

Tracks are transparent to most CD-ROM drives, as long as they are all
data tracks. So you can have directories in one track which point to files
in another track, and you'll be able to read those files just fine. But
when each track is a self-contained ISO 9660 image, then you have the
problem that Gess refers to.

I'm curious. What's the reason why someone would want to write multiple
data tracks in a single session? Is the CD being used for archival purposes,
perhaps?

Tom Lathrop
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 15:33
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Multiple Data Tracks
To: <[e-mail]>

I'm not sure what MS is doing, but multiple data tracks are used in
Kodak's Photo CD.  Each session will contain one or more (I've seen an
average of about six) tracks.  MSCDEX can get to the sectors in data
tracks other than the first (otherwise Photo CD couldn't work).

The only advantage I can think of for using multiple tracks (would only
apply to CD-WO) would be that when writing data you must keep data
streaming to the device for any given track (not for a session).
Therefore by writing your data in multiple tracks you lessen the risk of
running out of data during a mastering run.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 93 14:55:41 EDT
From: Gess Shankar <[e-mail]>
Subject: Multiple Data Tracks
emory!sector.Kodak.COM!tgl writes:

>[..]
> I'm curious. What's the reason why someone would want to write multiple
> data tracks in a single session? Is the CD being used for archival purposes,
> perhaps?
>

This is what started the thread. I am always curious about the doings of
Microsoft and I was wondering why their Viewer Publisher Toolkit CD-Rom
had two data tracks and what appeared to be a 9 second audio track as the
third track,  with a file called audio.cda - presumably pointing to the
audio track... (I have not looked at the directory record closely yet).

GeSS
--
Gess Shankar      |<><>|Internet: [e-mail]                |<><>|
Knowledge Exchange|<><>|{rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!uumind!knex!gess  |<><>|

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 93 08:59
From: emory!DS9.microdes.com!DAVID.MICRODES (David E. Dillard)
Subject: Multiple Data Tracks
To: [e-mail] (CDPub)

>> I've just been told that PhotoCD is the only multi-session format
around,
>> but I take it you're pressing ISO-9660?


Photo CD is in ISO-9660 format.

The device driver (at least under DOS and OS/2) has to determine that a
disc is multi-session and then remap reads of the volume descriptor
sequence to come from the last session.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 09:30:19 -0400
From: Tom Lathrop 588-0677 <emory!sector.Kodak.COM!tgl>
Subject: Multiple Data Tracks
To: [e-mail]

I asked:

> > I'm curious. What's the reason why someone would want to write multiple
> > data tracks in a single session? Is the CD being used for archival purposes,
> > perhaps?
> >

Gess Shankar replied:

> This is what started the thread. I am always curious about the doings of
> Microsoft and I was wondering why their Viewer Publisher Toolkit CD-Rom
> had two data tracks and what appeared to be a 9 second audio track as the
> third track,  with a file called audio.cda - presumably pointing to the
> audio track... (I have not looked at the directory record closely yet).

One reason why it might have multiple data tracks is if one of them is in
Mode 1 and the other in Mode 2. Is it possible that this disc is a CD-ROM
XA disc? Appendix I of the XA spec describes a "Semi CD-ROM XA disc", and
says: "This type of disc consists of CD-ROM Mode 1 and CD-ROM XA Mode 2
tracks (recommended one track each), and CD-DA tracks if desired...
This track layout is to be used when the disc contains data which must also
be read by CD-ROM drives which can only read Mode 1 tracks."

I don't know of any commercial authoring systems which can write XA discs,
although they may exist. XA has not yet caught on with the PC public, although
MPC level 2 (or whatever it's called) may change that.

Tom Lathrop
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  9 Aug 93 12:57:46 PST
From: Christopher Rimple <emory!microsoft.com!crimp>
Subject: Multiple Data Tracks
To: [e-mail]

|If I recall correctly, the data preparer field the vol descriptor is set
|to: NORIO. Usually microsoft stuff is Meridian. Does anyone know about
|this Norio? Maybe it is just a masked man from Microsoft?

Confirm that spelling and get back to me; I may be able to give you a
little more information.  While we do have a couple Meridian systems,
most of our systems are Sony 900e units now.

Chris

---------------------------------------------------------------
 Christopher Rimple    | [e-mail]  | One bad sector
 One Microsoft Way     | 206-936-5900 (voice) |    can ruin
 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | 206-936-7329 (fax)   | your whole day
---------------------------------------------------------------
 The views expressed in this message are my own and in no way
 reflect the views of Microsoft Corporation.
---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 10:17:30 -0400
From: emory!yu1.yu.edu!manaster (Chaim Manaster)
Subject: pq & r-w subchannel codes.
To: [e-mail]

Does anyone if the Pioneer 604x minichanger supports provides
some sort of access to the sub-channel codes P & Q, R-W?

If they do, what connector does it come through? Or do they get it
on the scsi bus (is that possible?)?

PS. still looking for an audio player driver for the drive.

Thank you very much for the help.
Henry Manaster

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 02:14:45 PDT
From: emory!inference.com!gloster (Vance M. Gloster)
Subject: pq & r-w subchannel codes.
To: [e-mail]

  Does anyone if the Pioneer 604x minichanger supports provides
  some sort of access to the sub-channel codes P & Q, R-W?

  If they do, what connector does it come through? Or do they get it
  on the scsi bus (is that possible?)?

If you are running under DOS/Windows, MSCDEX has a way to get this in
a hardware-independent way.  Not all drives permit access to channels
R-W, but I think that the Pioneer does.  Microsoft now has a Microsoft
CD-ROM Extensions DDK which has all of the information you need to
talk to the MSCDEX.  The latest Developer's Network CD has all of the
documentation.

-Vance Gloster
 [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  9 Aug 93 13:07:57 PST
From: Christopher Rimple <emory!microsoft.com!crimp>
Subject: Reading/writing audio CDs
To: [e-mail]

|From:  <netmail![e-mail]>
|What is involved in reading from a music CD and writing to a CD-R?
|Bob Bruce had raised a similar query before (wanted to make same custom
|CDs by selecting cuts from various CDs for personal use). Anyone care
|to elaborate on this?

There are basically two ways to read audio tracks from a CD: analog and
digital.

Analog transfer involves the use of a soundcard to take in analog
signals (audio output from a CD-ROM drive or other source) and convert
those signals to a digital file, which can then be written to a blank
CD-R.  Using a good soundcard (like the Turtle Beach MultiSound) gives
very little signal loss and degredation.

Digital transfer involves the use of software and specific CD-ROM
drives to read audio tracks direct to digital file via the SCSI bus.  I
know of only one such package, by Visitel Software, that works with the
Toshiba XM3401 drive (and possibly the 3301).  I have not tried it myself.

Chris

---------------------------------------------------------------
 Christopher Rimple    | [e-mail]  | One bad sector
 One Microsoft Way     | 206-936-5900 (voice) |    can ruin
 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | 206-936-7329 (fax)   | your whole day
---------------------------------------------------------------
 The views expressed in this message are my own and in no way
 reflect the views of Microsoft Corporation.
---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 5 Aug 1993 0:04:32 +0800
From: "Martin Hill"  <emory!icarus.curtin.edu.au!Martin>
Subject: Software to support Multi-session on Macs
To: [e-mail]

Sorry if I'm harping on the subject a bit, but....

Anyone know if Apple's or any third party CD-ROM driver software support
mounting multi-session CDs other than PhotoCD on the Mac?

I've used QuickTime 1.6.1 and the other related bits of software from Apple
(Foreign File acess etc) that supports PhotoCD, ISO-9660, High Sierra, and
Audio CDs. I don't however have any multi-session CDs to try.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 18:26:29 -0400
From: Tom Lathrop 588-0677 <emory!sector.Kodak.COM!tgl>
Subject: Sony CDW 900e Mastering Unit capable of multi-session?
To: [e-mail]

emory!icarus.curtin.edu.au!Martin writes:

>> I was told many of the cheaper CD-R mastering units have an unacceptably
>> high frisbee-to-CD ratio.  :-}
>> Was I just talking to a very Sony-biased person?

Gess Shankar replied:

> I have been using Philips CDD521 for many moons and I am yet to produce
> a single frisbee   :-(  May be I am doing something wrong. I will call
> Sony and find out how to make frisbees. :-)

If you are premastering your data (creating a CD-ROM image on magnetic
disk before copying it to CD), your chance of making a frisbee (or
coaster, as we call them) is fairly small. If you format "on the fly",
you have a higher possibility of creating a bad disc. It depends very
heavily on what your data looks like. If you have a few large files, and
your mag disk is defragmented, you're in great shape. If you have thousands
of small files on a fragmented, relatively slow hard drive, good luck.
If you are reading a small file, then have to seek across the mag disk to
read the next directory entry, then seek again to read another small file,
the mag disk access times will take long enough that you can't keep the
buffer in the writer full.

Tom Lathrop
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 08:05:50 -0400
From: James Powell <emory!borg.lib.vt.edu!jpowell>
Subject: VPIEJ-L
To: CD-R & CDRom Publishing Discussion List <[e-mail]>

FYI:

                             VPIEJ-L Resources

These resources provide access to the VPIEJ-L list and/or archives of VPIEJ-L

posts.  Additional files relevant to electronic journal publishing are
available at the FTP, Gopher, Listserv and WWW sites.

FTP Archive:
The Scholarly Communications Project of Virginia Tech has an anonymous FTP
archive which includes the VPIEJ-L archive, along with many electronic texts
and electronic publishing utilities.  To access this site, FTP to
BORG.LIB.VT.EDU and login as userid anonymous.  This FTP archive is available
to the Gopher literate through the Gopher at gopher.micro.umn.edu.  Select item
5, Internet file server (FTP) sites/, then item 2, Popular FTP Sites via
Gopher/.


Gopher Access:
The FTP archive files are available via a Gopher+ server at borg.lib.vt.edu

port 5070.  VPIEJ-L files are in /pub/vpiej-l.  Menu items are likely to gain

new names, but this server is now permanent.

Listserv Archive:
There is a listserv archive available at [e-mail]
(listserv@vtvm1 for BITNET) for VPIEJ-L.  Send a command as the body of a mail
message to get a current filelist: INDEX VPIEJ-L to listserv.  Use the get
command to retrieve items from the archive in a mail message: GET EJ-BIB TXT.

Usenet Gateway:
Subscribers may want to consider reading VPIEJ-L on Usenet.  Check with your
system administrator to see if your site receives bit.listserv.vpiej-l.  If it
does, you can unsubscribe your email account by sending a SIGNOFF VPIEJ-L
command to [e-mail].  You will still be able to post to the
list by email to [e-mail].  If your site does not carry this
group, please encourage them to add it.


WAIS Source:
The discussion logs for the VPIEJ-L list are searchable via WAIS.  The wais
source may be retrieved from the directory-of-servers by searching for VPIEJ-L,
or by FTP to borg.lib.vt.edu in the pub/WAIS/sources directory.

World Wide Web Access:
Point your WWW or Xmosaic client at the Scholarly Communications Project page:

http://borg.lib.vt.edu/z-borg/www/scholar.html.  There is a link to a hypertext

version of the VPIEJ-L discussion archives, which are still under construction.

There is also a link to the Usenet newsgroup bit.listserv.vpiej-l.

-----------------------
VPIEJ-L@VTVM1
[e-mail]
bit.listserv.vpiej-l


     VPIEJ-L is a discussion list for electronic publishing issues, especially
those related to Scholarly Electronic Journals.  Topics for discussion include
SGML, PostScript, and other e-journal formats; as well as software and hardware
considerations for creation of, storage, and access to e-journals.  Publishers,
editors, technical staff, programmers, librarians, and end-users are welcome
to join.  One goal of the list is to provide better feedback from users to
creators, so we are very interested in receiving and archival issues.  This
should give those of us involved in publishing an idea as to what distribution
methods work and how end-users are accessing and using these publications.
Current readers of and contributors to VPIEJ-L have discussed readability
and screen display, copyright, and advertising (noncommercial).

Archives of VPIEJ-L are available.  A listing may be retrieved by sending a
command INDEX VPIEJ-L to LISTSERV@VTVM1.

To subscribe, send the following command to LISTSERV@VTVM1 via mail or
interactive message:
    SUB VPIEJ-L your_full_name

where "your_full_name" is your name.  For example:
    SUB VPIEJ-L Joan Doe

Or you may read and post to VPIEJ-L via Usenet in the group
bit.listserv.vpiej-l

Owner: James Powell <JPOWELL@VTVM1>

---
James Powell - Library Automation, University Libraries, VPI&SU
           [e-mail] - NeXTMail welcome here
           Owner of VPIEJ-L, a discussion list for Electronic Journals
Archives: http://borg.lib.vt.edu:80/    gopher://borg.lib.vt.edu:70/
      file://borg.lib.vt.edu/~ftp

------------------------------

Date: (null)
From: (null)
Thanks for any info anyone can provide.

-Mart

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Hill            Internet:  [e-mail]
Multimedia Consultant  QuickMail: Martin_Hill@3517415
Computing Centre       AppleLink: AUST0176
Curtin University      GPO Box U 1987,
Ph:[phone]        Perth 6001,
Fax:[phone]       Western Australia
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of CDPub Digest
******************************