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From: WHOLE.NOTE Bruce Hamel Sub: SID RTC X-script 910710 Date: 07/10/91 Time: 22:58EDT Minutes: <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Hiya Jennifer! Always nice to see you! :) Oh yes! I agree!!! The parrot and eyepatch are STUNNING accents to your outfit! <T.ADAMS18> is here. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> HIya Tom! :) <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Hi <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> How have you been? <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Fine and you? <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I been just great! Have you seen the Miami SIDFest files in the library? <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Yep, and plan on downloading them. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I know you will find files you really enjoy.. especially in the General files! :) <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Are they the winning sids or something? <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> <Don't know much about the Sidfest> <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Each year all SID artists are invited to submit files.. one to each or either of the General and Classical albums... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Most are accepted.. it isn't a contest... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> it is issued to coincide with national gatherings... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> There are two each year.. this last one was in Miami. <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Must admit I am quite impressed with the Sids downloaded so far. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Only restriction on the files is that it is the artists own work.. and never uploaded elsewhere before. :) <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> All new stuff, Wow <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> So you can be sure you won't get any duplicates with them. <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> On a personal note... Can you put a bug in JBEE's ear about the disk won last May? <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Know he has been busy but.... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Absolutely! <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I'll EMAIL him right after the conference! :) <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Thanks <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I'm sorry for the delay. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Any files that you downloaded this week that really impressed you? <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> No problem, know he's been busy with TC128, Zip chip and other things involved in running a business <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Haven't d/l anything this week or last, drive problems <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Ouch! Wish ya luck with that.. I have two drives out myself... <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Took the 128D internal drive to be fixed. Would only read/write in 1541 mode. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I don't care about one being out.. but I do miss the other! Hate working with only one working drive. <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Saw a message that you were having 'puter problems. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> My one that could be fixable keeps thinking that there is a write protect on shortly after it is turned on. :( <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> This cost me $125 here in the DC area. Maybe should have bought a new one from RUN. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> The other one has a mangled head.. no real hope for it... except as a parts source, I figure. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> How much are they from RUN? <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Refurbished 128D = $289.50 <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Not bad! <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I have a flat 128 myself... <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Have a flat 128 and bought this 128D for $20.00 with busted drive. So thought I would get it fixed and still be ahead of the game. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Sure sounds like it! <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I just bought a second flat 128 and 1571 for $150. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Glad I did.. that is the only working 1571 I have now! <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Tell me more about the sidfest. Do people show up in person or just send files in <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> People go there in person..... <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> Like a convention? <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> typically it is 2 to 4 days of just hanging' out.. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Not too much organized.. UNLESS... it is in conjunction with a WOC show... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> (World of Commodore) in which case it is almost all work.. running a booth. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> They are a really neat group of folks.. kind wild, but nothing naughty or illegal.. just fun-loving.... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Not too much shop talk, but some. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> If it is in conjunction with a User Group, they might have demonstrations or lectures.... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> The biggest order of business is always to pick the next location to meet. :) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> They are held twice a year.. have been since 1986. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> It is like a convention.. but more like a family party.. most of us know each other pretty well from on-line.. but always there are newcomers... <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> How many disks come out of the show? <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> There are typically 20 - 50 people. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> That varies.. but there is always a general and a classical.. sometimes they are pretty full and maybe run onto another. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> In the past the front sides were mono and the back stereo. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> but it is getting to the point that most SID folks only submit stereo files.. or anyway that there are few mono. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> This year really shows that, unfortunately. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I have to confess that I only did a stereo General.. but the classical piece was in mono. <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> ]Thanks, I gotta go well talk to you later <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Take care Tom!. And I'll jog JBEE! :) <[Tom] T.ADAMS18> OK <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Hiya Bruce...:) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> HI! How ya doing? <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Hiya Ken! :) <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Hiya GS...:) <G.SCHROY1> Hi :) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Have you folks seen the Miami SIDFest files in the library yet? <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Doin good...enjoying the program and the cart! <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> I've seen em...just haven't d/led em yet. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Great, Ken! <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> You won't be disappointed!:) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Zep Fan.. there is a fabulous metal SID by Uncle Slam there! <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> (And I DO wisk I could remember which one it is!) <[ZEPLINFAN1] G.SCHROY1> Which one is it? :) <[ZEPLINFAN1] G.SCHROY1> oh... :) <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Question... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Yessir! <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> I'm having a beach of a time tweaking to get just the right sound for the various voices...is there an easier way than hacking at it? <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Yes and no... <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> ut oh...;) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> One thing you can do is load a SID by someone else that you think has the kind of sound you want.... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Then Use the COPY feature to save the voice commands.. that will put them in a buffer.... <[ZEPLINFAN1] G.SCHROY1> brb...have to change term progs :/ <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> en load your own SID and place the copied parameters in... <[ZEPLINFAN1] G.SCHROY1> has left. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> At that point you are back to trial and error to try to tweak it into just what you want. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Hopefully it got you closer to where you were trying to go <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> What kind of sound in particular were you having trouble with? <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Ok...guess I have to use that method...be prepared for more questions as I think of them (I should note them!) :) <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Acoustic 12 string guitar... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Please ask! I can't always answer.. but I may be able to save you hours of tinkering some time! :) <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Sitar... <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> An instrument from a Roger Waters album whose name (instrument) I can't remember... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Ah! Okay.. for guitar.. lessee.. ATK 1, Decay 10, SUS 0, PNT 3, RELEASE 10 to 12. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> VDP 3, VRT 2. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> WAV could be P or TP <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> PW about 1500 maybe <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> 12 string maybe a bit longer release than a 6 string.. 11 or 12 perhaps. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> For sitar.. that is harder... maybe add POR 10(?) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Change SUS to 6 or so.. and use PW = 800 <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Sheesh, Bruce...after all this time you'd think someone would have compiled some kind of list or approximations of instruments. All the above noted. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Maybe longer release too.. 12 to 13 <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> It has been done... BUT... <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> (It has been fun playing 'round, though) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> The list is not very useful.. they values depend on the octave played in and the tempo to a GREAT degree... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> And also what other voices are playing at the same time.. they influence each other... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> guess it is some interference and harmonic type of phenomena. <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> I've completed four voices in my first attempt...sounds ok. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I had it.. tried it once.. never used it again. :) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Great!! <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Have you uploaded it? <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> It's not done...I have to finish up and than go through and tweak it. <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Two more voices and tweaking... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I'll look forward to hearing it! :) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> One thing that you might want to know about is "Reverb". <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> I chose Harvest Moon as my first...cause I thought it would take me to fall to complete it...;) <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Reverb? <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Sometimes you really want the lead to stand out.. you can do that by using "Reverb"... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> That is an echoing of the lead on another channel... the same thing played again only a few jiffies later.... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> How to do it is easy... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> You simply take the lead voice and copy it into another voice.. often in the other channel is best.....THEN... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> at the very beginning of it... add a UTL 2 or 3 and then a Utility rest. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> That will cause it to start 2 or 3 jiffies later... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> You don't hear it playing twice.. it just sounds suddenly very full and "round" :) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> BTW.. Her is another suggestion.... just as a matter of form... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> The FIRST entry in voice one should always be the tempo. <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Ok...I've done that with one of the main commands in the stereo editor that causes the second voice to start after (milliseconds) the first...it made for a fuller sound. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> always set that first... then put in voice parameters, and THEN.. add a whole rest BEFORE measure one starts... <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> ok on tempo. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> This makes for a short delay before the music starts. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Also add a whole rest at the end.. let the last notes die out before it switches to the next. <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Ahhh...nice suggestions! <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Another thing to do.. when you think you have it right.. is to play it... and during the final rest... press P to pause.. then pr ess F7 where you get to see <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> voices displayed as colored bars as it plays... under the bars you will see a number for each voice... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> s number refers to how many jiffies it is into the current note.... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> They can be any number.. but they should all be the SAME! UNLESS.. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> you are using a delay on one of the voices like we talked about above. <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> ok...that's a nice check. <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Question... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> If they are NOT.. they you have an error in timing.. either a wrong note duration.. or not all voices changed tempo at the same t ime if you entered another <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> TEM command somewhere. :) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I frequently check by adding a whole note at C1 or something to all the voices at the same measure marker... just to be sure ever ything is okay! :) <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Is there anyway to toggle back and forth from the Stereo editors help files to the main program<[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> C! = C1 or E1 etc^^ <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Ken, I don't believe so. :( <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Back to timing...is there anyway to check the timing throughout the six voices for one measure? <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> If I have added a note at such a low octave, it is easy to here the pausing point! :) <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> To make sure they jive together, I mean. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Sure ken.. just add the note, like I described at any measure you want to check.. then take it back out after you are satisfied it is okay. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> ALSO, if you have entered the time.. 4/4 or 3/4 etc, under SONG PARAMETERS, it will tel you the number of beats in the current me assure. <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Ok...:) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Then you can scan for any not at 4 or 8 or whatever it should be for that measure. <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> I'm experiencing line noise. Do you see it? <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Yes.. a bit. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I have another hint on form for you.... <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> ok <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> If you start off with a lot of voice parameters.. and we always do.... <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> :) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> if they are all trying to be done in the instant it is starting... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> it can lead to traffic jam.. called a clobber error... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> to avoid that you can make a little change in something I said above... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Instead of doing all the voice parameters and then a whole rest before measure one in EVERY voice... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Just do that in ONE voice.. then in voice two.. start with a half rest-do the params-then another half rest... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> It's the same time being rested.. but the params come in TWO groups instead of all at once.... <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Then in the third voice, maybe "encase" the params with a quarter note and dotted half rest. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I use that same pattern in each channel.. that is to say voice 1 and 4 both have a whole note, 2 and 5 2*halfs, and 3 and 6 have a quarter and a dotted half. <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> That makes good sense...although I haven't yet experienced a clobber error. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Rarely will you run into that except at the start.. there you may have 30 or 40 commands going out all at the same time. :) <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> I've just started messing with the def and cal commands... macro capabilities! <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Ken, absolutely! They can really be timesavers.. AND... they are a great way to call voices inand out... put the param settings in DEF statements! <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Then call them whenever you want to change back. :) <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> I found a good example of that in a starsnstripes tune. Makes for alot of versatility. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Just be careful to have all the same parameter TYPES in each one.. <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> for example.. if you define a voice in DEF 2 that as an octave transpose in it.. then you call voice 1 again.. it will continue t o transposed UNLESS def has <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Unless DEF 1 has a Transpose = 0 in it! :) <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Got it! <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> I have gotten in trouble that way more times than I like to admit! ;D <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Transpose and POR are the ones I usually neglect to cover! <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Well.. I gotta git.. I hope the hints are helpful! :) <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Enjoying music you just need the ability to hear... transposing it to sids you also have to be a good bookkeeper. ;) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> That is the truth! :D <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> They will help, Bruce...thanks! <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> Good night...:) <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> My pleasure! BY the time we have the classes... you may be helping to give them! :D <[Bruce] WHOLE.NOTE> Good Night Ken! :) <[Ken] K.PHELAN1> has left. === End of Steno notes. === ----------