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************ Topic 18 Thu Feb 11, 1993 CBM-MARK (Forwarded) Sub: RTC Master - Looking for help! A place to ask for help with RTC Master. 197 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 1 Wed Jul 12, 1995 CBM-MARK at 23:42 EDT Ed, I just duplicated the missing phone number char. Think I know what I did that affected that. Easy to fix. Thanks for pointing it out! Looked at my EZBOOT file and I added - 435 poke 5549,9 to redefine my source drive as #9 even though I always boot from #8. ~~Mark~~ ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 2 Thu Jul 13, 1995 B.GANN1 [Brenda] at 01:42 EDT HH>>Is there any possibility that you might be using a Super Graphic Gold or other exotic printer interface which messes around with the serial bus? Yes, I am using an SGG. Good guess, but not the problem... EB>> If you DO write to him, I have a suggestion too... Ed... I will pass on your suggestion if I remember to write Eric ;) EB>> again, that if you write to Eric Lee you ask him. If he is like me, you will probably get WAY more information than you want. ;) Cool :) EB>> I will suggest one thing, tho you may have already tried it... after you tried the save of the defaults and the light flashed and it did not work, did you try sending a reset to the drive (uj or u; or u ever one works on your unit) and re-attempt the save. No, but that would not have helped. The problem is that when you customize and save it, it does not save it. If I am remembering right (its been a while now), if you boot TWS with the text drive set to 8, change it to 12 in the customizer and save it, then reboot, it is set back to 12. You must set it to 12, load the customizer, set that to 12, THEN save. EB>> At any rate, nice piece of detective work! Thanks :D Brenda ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 3 Thu Jul 13, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 04:24 EDT Mark: Yes, I bet that is what is being loaded, the 'PATH.MYSETUP'. That is so new I forgot about it. John... the new version of DEFAULTS allows you to specify and save a file with your drive path settings. The file is always called 'PATH.MYSETUP'. However, it will NOT take effect until after your script is loaded (or not loaded if you don't use one). The reason was to assure that all booting is done from the same drive. After all files are booted up, your path settings take effect. I had forgotten about that. Brenda: I have used TWS for years and never done the customization part of it. I guess I"ve just always been satisfied with the defaults. Not only that, I have had as many as 5 drives on my system, and never seem to consistently keep my data files on the same (numbered) unit. Good news on the phone number Mark. I'm looking forward to the verbose listing. I think you are going to have some real fun doing that. I am fighting the urge to do some of the coding because it seems to me it will move so fast. What I'm working on now is moving very slowly! (It has nothing to do w/RTCM) ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 4 Fri Jul 14, 1995 B.GANN1 [Brenda] at 04:43 EDT EB>> Brenda: I have used TWS for years and never done the customization part of it. I guess I"ve just always been satisfied with the defaults. Not only that, I have had as many as 5 drives on my system, and never seem to consistently keep my data files on the same (numbered) unit. I don't have very much customized. I think I had a specific reason that I set the text drive to 12, but forgot what it was :) I have my text files both on a floppy and the HD. re: RTCM quoter *DELETE,1-7 EB>> Brenda: I have used TWS for years and never done the customization part of it. I guess I"ve just always been satisfied with the defaults. Not only that, I have had as many as 5 drives on my system, and never seem to consistently keep my data files on the same (numbered) unit. I don't have very much customized. I think I had a specific reason that I set the text drive to 12, but forgot what it was :) I have my text files both on a floppy and the HD. re: RTCM quoter When I first log on to GEnie and attempt to load the quoter, it automatically loads datamover for me. I have to go back and load quoter. Brenda ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 5 Fri Jul 14, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 06:00 EDT Brenda: BG> first log on to GEnie and attempt to load the quoter, it BG> automatically loads datamover for me. I have to go back and BG> load quoter Are you using a hot key and the ALT key? Not that that would change, but perhaps your ALT menu is not set up the way you think it is (if you are using a hot key and the ALT key, that is). BTW, the Quoter overlay went away in either 2.04 or 3.00. The reason is that it was a crude way of getting the job done. The Editor is now used for this job.... it is better for one thing because you can have a split window. I use the top window for the text I'm quoting and the bottom window for my live window. The Editor does things in more of an 'asynchronous' way, meaning that it is not in a chat type window... when you press a key, that key is sent.... as opposed to when you press RETURN as in the main program. (Xmodem went away too... it is now offered solely in the Ymodem overlay) back to the problem you are having.... how do you load Quoter. Not that you are doing anything wrong... it just might give a clue as to what is happening. ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 6 Sat Jul 15, 1995 B.GANN1 [Brenda] at 19:29 EDT EB>> Are you using a hot key and the ALT key?... how do you load Quoter. Well, actually I did not need to even mention Quoter. What happens is, when I log onto GEnie, and press the ALT key by itself, datamover automatically loads. I thought maybe it was because I press it when GEnie is still sending the opening menu, but it happens even when I wait for everything to fully send. This isn't a sometime thing, it is an always thing. EB>> BTW, the Quoter overlay went away in either 2.04 or 3.00. I think I am using 2.00. EB>> The reason is that it was a crude way of getting the job done. Well, I don't acutally use the Quoter to quote :D I load the buffer dumps into The Write Stuff, type my stuff, boot RTCM, load quoter, load the TWS file into the buffer, and then dump it with Quoter. Brenda ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 7 Sat Jul 15, 1995 B.GANN1 [Brenda] at 19:33 EDT Oops, its 2.02. Just now tried getting into the BB, loading the reply file (off the HD, swapped in) then pressing ALT to load Quoter (unswapping the HD to get Quoter from the FD) This worked. The overlay menu came up, and nothing automatically loaded. So now wondering if it worked because I moved to the BB first, or because the HD was accessed first, or... ? Brenda ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 8 Sat Jul 15, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 23:11 EDT Brenda: BG> This worked. The overlay menu came up, and nothing BG> automatically loaded. So now wondering if it worked because I BG> moved to the BB first, or because the HD was accessed first, BG> or... Actually, the ALT key should only bring up the menu UNLESS you have something typed into your user window. In that case, the first letter in the user window is seen as a menu selection. Did I explain that ok? With nothing in your user window, press the ALT key. See what selection quoter is. I would suspect that that letter is in the first position in your user window if quoter is automatically loading. Does that sound like something that could be happening? It is kind of a hotkey function. ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 9 Sun Jul 16, 1995 R.KIRK7 [Dick] at 16:58 EDT Do I deteck that RTCM V3X is available? If so where? If not yet- is it possible to get a copy which will allow me to successfully exicute a script with DMA saves and which will allow me to page the buffer with a single keystroke. this reading [D [D [D [This having to page page after page via pressing the Ctr-B keyes is a pain. ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 10 Mon Jul 17, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 06:00 EDT Dick: I may be able to look into a POKE that would change the character looked for for the scrolls, but I thought the DMA save thing was ok??? ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 11 Thu Jul 20, 1995 B.GANN1 [Brenda] at 01:22 EDT set 8 rep 18 EB>> Actually, the ALT key should only bring up the menu UNLESS you have something typed into your user window. Hmm, this made me think... there is a script running when I log on (mailbb). I cancel it with the run/stop key at the user id prompt, but I know there is something still there. If I just press return at GEnie's first menu, I go to mail (as if the script cancel did not take effect before the mail command, and the mail command is waiting somewhere invisibly.) If I type m625 at the GEnie menu, I don't go to mail. EB>> With nothing in your user window, press the ALT key. See what selection quoter is. I would suspect that that letter is in the first position in your user window if quoter is automatically loading. I don't have anything in the user window. Quoter selection... it is whatever it is in the stock RTCM 2.02. (I think datamover is "c" and quoter is "h".) Hmmm! a control c is a run/stop... maybe I am pressing it more than once?? RK>> This having to page page after page via pressing the Ctr-B keyes is a pain. I hate that too :) Brenda ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 12 Thu Jul 20, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 06:18 EDT I am pretty sure we can change the key selections for paging with a simple POKE in the boot program. That way it will not be permanant and the key of your choice can be the paging. I *THINK* I can do that. I have not worked with, or seen, 2.02 for over a year... I"ll have to check directly in the object code for the test for chr$(2), which is the CTRL-B. As for the logon prompt, Brenda, my scripts all logon by sending my user id, password, and then the command to go to mail. I don't think you can override that by stopping the script after that line is sent EXCEPT at the GEnie menu, where you should be able to enter m625;1. There is a however tho... I just don't remember what 2.02 does during a script. The above about the logon line is the same. I never changed that and the scripts have always been backward compatible. I just don't remember when I added the ability of the scripts to accept your input, effectively running in the background. That *may* have appeared with 2.03 or 2.04. One other thing... do you have the music set to 'on'... iow, does the music come on when you connect with GEnie. If so, RTCM allows you to press the STOP key to stop the music and continue on with the script. If you hold the stop key too long, the script will also be terminated, but if you just press it briefly, until the music stops, the script will chug merrily along. I do think in the one situation that the logon string is what is making it seem like the script is not cancelled. Try Mark's script maker program and check out the line that sends the user id. I'm sure you will find that is where you are being directed to mail. If you let it run, you will eventually wind up in the BB, even if you have no mail. If you have mail, it will read it, buffer it, and then go to the BB. ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 13 Fri Jul 21, 1995 C128.JBEE at 01:56 EDT Yes, version 3.01 is available and has been mailed to anyone that had an order pending or was due a manual. I will be mailing the upgrade disk to everyone free of charge today. ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 14 Fri Jul 21, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 06:05 EDT Good. I"ll check the addresses to try to find the test for ctrl-b and post a POKE here that can be added to the boot program. ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 15 Sun Jul 23, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 09:27 EDT Dick and Brenda: I cannot find my 2.02 archives disk. I did a check on 3.01 and was able to easily change the keypress for the page ahead function. I can offer you two alternatives here. The first would be to upload your 'loblock' file, where the code needs changed, and I'll find the byte that needs changed, or you can try the following on your own. 1] make a copy of your loblock file as a backup 2] type bload "loblock" 3] type monitor 4] type h 04000 05680 c9 02 5] when you get a report of where it occurs,take the first occurrence and type d #### where #### is that first occurrence minus 1. For example, if the first occurence is 4731, you would type d 4730 You will be given a disassembly of program code starting at the occurrence address. The first line of that disassembly should look like this: #### cmp #$02 where, again, #### is whatever address you typed in the 'd ####' command. To make the change, you change the #$02 to the ASCII value (in hex) of the character you want to use to page forward. For example, if you wanted to use the space bar, you would change the line to read: #### cmp #$20 because #$20 is hex for 32, which is the value of the space character. When you get that change made, you would then save the file again as follows: s "@0:loblock",##,04000,05680 where ## is your drive number (in hex). Drive 8 or 9 would just be 8 or 9. Drive 10 would be 0a, drive 11 would be 0b, etc. So how adventurous do you feel? The only wildcard is if I did things differently in 2.02 as far as keypress testing. I vaguely remember doing things from a table at one point. I'll have to either wait to hear from you on that or find it myself. BTW, changing the CTRL-T thing would be exactly the same except you would look for 'c9 14'. egb ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 16 Sun Jul 23, 1995 B.GANN1 [Brenda] at 21:28 EDT EB>> I am pretty sure we can change the key selections for paging with a simple POKE in the boot program. Well, in my case, the key used is not my problem with it. My problem is that it is slow, can't quickly move to the beginning or end, and can only move in one direction. EB>> As for the logon prompt, Brenda, my scripts all logon by sending my user id, password, and then the command to go to mail. Well, I use mailbb just to dial and send my password. I don't want to go to mail or the BB automatically. So I hit run/stop right away. It says "terminated by user". EB>> One other thing... do you have the music set to 'on'... iow, does the music come on when you connect with GEnie. I dunno, the way I have my system set up, I have to flip a switch to hear the sound. I will have to try it out. EB>> Try Mark's script maker program and check out the line that sends the user id. I'm sure you will find that is where you are being directed to mail. Oh, I know I'm supposed to be going to email according to the script... I'm just lazy... I never wrote my own script. I just edited this one so I could get on. That's not the problem. The problem is datamover automatically loading. When I press ALT the first time, it loads. Then when I press it again, the menu stays up so I can choose Quoter. The problem is... why does datamover load itself? re: 3.01 Is there someplace that lists the changes from 2.02? How do you get a copy? Brenda ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 17 Mon Jul 24, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 06:14 EDT Brenda: You can move to the beginning or end by pressing shift T or shift B, and you can move in either direction by pressing CTRL-T or CTRL-B. As for slow, it is comparable I think to DesTerm, tho I can't say for certain. My technique is similar to that of ZED except that I keep links only for the current screen and not for backward movement. As for a list of feature changes, the only place I know you could find that out is by downloading the message threads that attended development. Most of them were in a private category so you would be seeing stuff that never went public before being archived and uploaded. I don't remember the changes that happened when. I'm several versions beyond 2.02. ;( ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 18 Sat Jul 29, 1995 B.GANN1 [Brenda] at 05:08 EDT EB>> Brenda: You can move to the beginning or end by pressing shift T or shift B, and you can move in either direction by pressing CTRL-T or CTRL-B. I've only known about the CTRL-B. EB>> As for slow, it is comparable I think to DesTerm, tho I can't say for certain. Uh, no... Desterm can move in screenfuls with the run/stop key. It does not scroll the screen up as RTCM seems to. It splats it on the screen from the top line. With Desterm, you press the key and the screen is there. With RTCM, when you press CTRL-B, you have to wait as the screen scrolls. EB>> My technique is similar to that of ZED I've never used ZED. Brendajust fooling around with the sound on... I am getting beeps for certain keypresses, but no music when I logged on. When I just accidentally pressed C= M or is that CTRL-M no music played but the computer was acting hung up like music was supposed to be playing. ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 19 Sat Jul 29, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 08:36 EDT Brenda: I meant the scrolling speed of DesTerm. I have used DesTerm and I believe that RTCM scrolls at a comparable speed. Another thing about DesTerm you may not know is that it saves buffers in terms of lines and not in terms of characters. With RTCM, you are getting what you see on the status line. Doing things the way DesTerm did them makes it a world easier not only to scroll, but also to edit. I chose the other way because a line can be 1 character, a carriage return, or 80 characters in DesTerm. But that is why DesTerm is able to have the line immediately at the top of the screen. But you have to admit, once it is there, painting the screen takes the same amount of time. RTCM keeps track of the 20 lines on the screen. So to paint the next 20 lines, it grabs the pointer to the last line and starts to print, rebuilding the 20 pointers as it scrolls the screen. I guess I'm not sure that what you see is the reality or just an appearance of more speed. I never liked the way the original DesTerm painted screens from the top each time, but I thought that went away in the second release and that it painted continuous pages, but I never used it that much. ZED keeps pointers to the previous and subsequent line WITH each line. There is therefore overhead. On the upside, consecutive lines of a file do not have to be consecutive in memory. The pointer system is where RTCM is similar to ZED, but RTCM does not go to the length ZED does. That is why an insertion is faster in ZED than in RTCM. But then ZED was written with text editing as it's primary function. RTCM was not. I had to find an economy between speed and memory usage and remember what the primary function was. FWIW, ZED has it's detractors too. ;) For any but file reading, I am not high on it, but that could be because I don't use it as often as others. As for the music not playing, you may have one of the registers latched somehow. I've had that happen. Press STOP to get past the music 'playing'. C=M is the keypress to play the music. BTW, the 'latching' I just mentioned is not something you do intentionally. But if you twiddle the right bits in one of the sound registers, it will disable the SID until you unlatch that bit. Can't recall this minute which one it is or how it happens, but I do know it happens. In defense of RTCM, my editor (as opposed to the viewer you are talking about) handles the RTCM storage method, which is harder to handle than the line storage of DesTerm. In addition, it has a split screen mode, a built-in quoter, it reads BASIC files into the buffer as text files and writes them back as BASIC files (reminiscent of BTP) it has an onscreen ruler you can toggle on and off, you can insert and transmit files with it, direct buffer output to your printer as it arrives, adjust the width of whole blocks of your buffer, transmit text over the modem directly from the buffer, 'jot' lines directly to your printer, or the whole buffer or marked portions of it, send dos commands, set up to 100 'bookmarks' to which you can jump directly or cycle through... lots aand lots more too. The help menu is 2 pages because I couldn't get all the features onto just 1 page. (Did I mention it has a HELP menu? ;) I know DesTerm supports one or two of the above features, but the speed was a tradeoff to support all of the features AND give you a TRUE 60K buffer, which DesTerm does not... at least not practically. The RTCMaster Editor overlay is perhaps the most powerful of all of the overlays included with RTCM. The script language is pretty powerful too tho. Of course, if Matt Desmond is back at the helm of DesTerm, the sky is probably pretty much the limit as to what you might expect to see in the future. ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 20 Sat Jul 29, 1995 R.KIRK7 [Dick] at 15:03 EDT Never mind all of that key changing. Your instructions are too venturesome for me and not worth it to change the scrolling. I will wait for V3. As a registered RTCM owner will I be getting version 3 soon or do I have to do something to obtain it? ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 21 Sat Jul 29, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 19:20 EDT You will have to ask John about that. But you know that if you want to have a different key combination, I'll still have to either provide a little fixer program or walk you through the steps to implement the change. On the upside, it will be easier to work it into a current version than a very old version. ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 22 Thu Aug 03, 1995 C128.JBEE at 13:23 EDT > FWIW, ZED has it's detractors Sounds like someone with too much time on their hands. Anyone that can complaint about (excellent) free software needs to get a life ;-D ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 23 Thu Aug 03, 1995 C128.JBEE at 13:26 EDT > R.KIRK7 > As a registered RTCM owner will I be getting version 3 soon Yes, hopefully a new manual too. ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 24 Thu Aug 03, 1995 CBM-MARK at 20:16 EDT Ed, DataMover is giving me problems! I had a .btch file set up to upload 10 files using DataMover to write it. No problem there. Everything would go fine with an upload *until* GEnie asked if the upload was Ok. There, everything would just sit. DataMover wouldn't send the 'y'. I would have to press STOP to Escape DataMover and send the 'y' myself. *If* I sat back and let things go, GEnie would eventually send me offline. For some reason GEnie would accept the file then as a good upload without any apparent input from me or DataMover answering 'y' to that prompt. RTCM's screen would then be messed up a bit when I get kicked offline. Only would have basically a blank screen (just the bar across the top) with the cursor blinking in the message (top) window. RUN/STOP-RESTORE would put things back into order, screenwise. At that prompt from GEnie asking if the upload was Ok, it seems like DataMOver isn't seeing the right prompt from GEnie. Wonder if anything has been changed with GEnie? Uploads were sure slow between some of the prompts. Once I even finished with an upload and did some looking around (#2 on lib menu) then decided to come over here to the BB. Wasn't until I entered 'm625;1' that GEnie told me the charges have been resummed :/ GEnie should have told me that right after the upload was done. Wierd. One more thing ;> During one of the uploads with DataMover, RTCM's screen blanked on me so I pressed the up/down cursor key to get it back. What I got back for a screen was a screen full of vertical lines. As if the screen was painted with one of the vertical line graphic charaters. I pressed RUN/STOP-RESTORE as soon as the upload (messed up screen didn't affect that) was finished and RTCM(s normal screen came back...almost ;> The entire screen is shifted to the left 6-7 bytes with a blinking vertical bar, 2-3 bytes wide, on the right side of the screen. That bar isn't a solid vertical character either. The bytes are all rapidly turning on & off while the bar is displayed. It's as if data is continuously being written to those bytes. I doubt if the screen thing can be duplicated, just thought you'd like to know about it. But DataMover you should be able to. ~~Mark~~ ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 25 Fri Aug 04, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 19:17 EDT Mark: I"ll try Data ov*1,Mark: I'll try DataMover myself, tho the last time I used it it was ok... tho I only did a batch of one, maybe 2 at the most. Wonder if something about GEnie has changed???? Could your settings have changed somehow? I didn' t ma*5,somehow? I didn't make any changes to that part of DataMover, BUT perhaps something is hanging because of all the stuff I did to make RamLink happy.... (Haven't heard anything one way or the other exc. for John saying his overlays were not BRKing.) I anticipated the possibility that something like this might happen with all the disables I call now. I expected it to occur in the games, tho, not in DataMover, but when you are dealing with protocols, I bet that is a far more likely culprit. As for the screen blanking, I have been kind of unhappy with the way the blanking routine works too. Seems that now that it works for John, it gets REAL weird with me. I have been meaing to write a kludge that would put the original routine back into the code at the right place. Then anyone having problems could restore the original routine. I have even had mine get so crazy Run/Stop/Restore would not recover it. What you are seeing is the result of VDC registers getting clobbered, but I don't know how it is happening. The blanking routine now does a lot more than the old one did. The old one just twiddled the horizontal blanking register. The new one turns everything black, then off... lots more going on. Perhaps I will do the kludge this weekend. It won't take any time. Only a little BASIC shell to load the RTCM module in, load the blank/unblank code in, and rewrite the whole thing. As for DataMover I'll look at what you are seeing. I kind of suspect it is just an ENABLE call that is needed, and probably only affects your setup. ;) ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 26 Fri Aug 04, 1995 CBM-MARK at 23:54 EDT Ed, I'm pretty sure I *have* used this latest version of datamover with no problem. Yesterday was the first time with problems in a *long* time with Datamover. Then it was only when GEnie asked if the upload was Ok. I really suspect it may be GEnie changing the prompt somehow and Datamover won't know any better ;) But, then again it could be my setup needing an ENABLE call ;> You *still* having problems with line noise? Your message was garbled in places. ~~Mark~~ ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 27 Sat Aug 05, 1995 B.GANN1 [Brenda] at 04:08 EDT EB>> Brenda: I meant the scrolling speed of DesTerm. Uh, I thought I was talking about both? EB>> I have used DesTerm and I believe that RTCM scrolls at a comparable speed. Are you talking about cursor up/down movements? I am talking about Desterm's "run/stop" as compared to RTCM's "CTRL-B". re: Desterm's buffer Well, you can have a character or a line buffer. But Desterm's buffer does not have enough features for me in a lot of ways. Neither does RTCM v 2.02. EB>> Doing things the way DesTerm did them makes it a world easier not only to scroll, but also to edit. I know. Desterm takes the sissy way out ;) EB>> I chose the other way because a line can be 1 character, a carriage return, or 80 characters in DesTerm. I personally feel that line buffers are ridiculous. EB>> But you have to admit, once it is there, painting the screen takes the same amount of time. Uh, not in my opinion :) Ok, so I better prove it. I loaded a file into both Desterm and RTCM. I timed the load and the scroll. I was surprised to see that RTCM was faster than Desterm in the load. (I had heard Desterm used Kernal tricks.) Also, I had not realized that RTCM could display color graphic files. But I prove my point on scroll speed. RTCM is about 4 times slower. (Times are in seconds of course.) LOAD SCROLL Desterm 14.51 10:43 RTCM 9:54 40:12 re: ZED No comment. Never used it. EB>> As for the music not playing, you may have one of the registers latched somehow. I think that is what it is. EB>> In defense of RTCM, my editor (as opposed to the viewer you are talking about) Well, doesn't matter if I don't have it :) I can't compare. EB>> handles the RTCM storage method, which is harder to handle than the line storage of DesTerm. Yes, but can you REALLY edit? EB>> In addition, it has (etc etc) Uh, to me, that does not matter unless I can edit. Otherwise, I might as well load the saved buffer into The Write Stuff like I do now. (Well actually it does. Mentioning Bobsterm has me starting to flip out ;) ) EB>> I know DesTerm supports one or two of the above features It supports most of those features, without overlays. (Sorry ;) ) EB>> but the speed was a tradeoff to support all of the features Bobsterm scrolls faster too, I betcha. I bet it leaves Desterm in the dust. Ok, just tested it. Couldn't get it to boot from anything but the original disk. Hmmmm. Well, anyway, I will re-print the graph with Bobsterm added. Note that the load is not a fair time. Bobsterm prints the file to the screen as it loads so of course it takes longer. LOAD SCROLL Desterm 14:51 10:43 RTCM 9:54 40:12 Bobsterm 128 26:33 5:64 (smokin'!) (BTW, the test file was a 112 block file loaded from a CMD HD 100. The scroll key(s) were held down for the tests, not pushed repeatedly.) EB>> AND give you a TRUE 60K buffer, which DesTerm does not... at least not practically. Desterm's buffer is way too small, because it is by lines and not by characters. (To use it by characters, you lose the ability to edit. Lame.) EB>> RTCMaster Editor overlay is perhaps the most powerful of all of the overlays included with RTCM. I've only gotten into the overlays I HAD to use. I have not learned the script language on Desterm or RTCM. I used to write them all the time with Bobsterm. (Greatest terminal program of its time, and still leaves a lot of them in the dust.) EB>> Of course, if Matt Desmond is back at the helm of DesTerm, the sky is probably pretty much the limit as to what you might expect to see in the future. Can't wait to see what he is going to do. -- I just called and buffered the message base at 9600. It seemed like some text was being lost at the beginning and ends of messages. It did not happen in the text of the message. Can RTCM do 14.4? BTW, note that I use Desterm exclusively for local BBSing and RTCM exclusively for GEnie. Brenda ------------ Category 8, Topic 18 Message 28 Sat Aug 05, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 08:12 EDT Mark: MD> *have* used this latest version of datamover with no problem Is that since I uploaded 3.01? I suppose I'll wait until the next time you try it to see if the same thing happens. Open your buffer before starting. I'm pretty sure it will capture what is going on. MD> *still* having problems with line noise? Your message was MD> garbled I am starting to wonder if the modem on my PC upstairs is causing that. I kind of think that the line noise started at about the time I got it... back in February or March. BG> EB>> I have used DesTerm and I believe that RTCM scrolls at BG> talking about cursor up/down movements Yes, I was talking about cursor movements, not the paging.... and I am not sure why DesTerm would be so much faster. I maintain the pointers to the last line on a screen. A page forward is just a matter of loading that address and printing the next 20 lines. I see your load/scroll table.... I assume this is for the whole buffer? I would hate to think anyone reading this to think it takes RTCm (or DesTerm) 10+ or 40+ seconds to paint a screen. I stick with my original point about comparable speeds, tho I WaS referring to the cursor up/down speeds. Keep in mind also that the RTcm buffer viewer supports searching too, which is being polled for in the same loop that polls for the scrolling keys. With my search, you can enter a string and have every occurrence of the search string located, then you can point and click your way through those meaning a search by 'subject' or 'from' will get you through your buffer much faster with less wasted time. I don't think DesTerm has that feature. In addition, version 3.01 allows you to load, save, and print with keypresses It is still not an editor, but as I said, a full editor is provided as an overlay. BG> EB>> handles the RTCM storage method, which is harder to handle BG> Yes, but can you REALLY edit? Yes, the RTCMaster editor can really edit... cut/paste/search/r