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[Editor's Note: I am often asked about the policies of the RoundTable in regards to accepting materials which are 'adult' in nature. This is a series of messages about just that. I will warn you in advance that the policies and guidelines in these messages are pretty explicit themselves...] -*deb* ************ Topic 72 Wed Apr 06, 1988 A.WALKER at 22:42 EDT Sub: Geos with a plain brown wrapper 25 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 3 Fri Apr 08, 1988 A.WALKER at 23:17 EDT I downloaded the latest from the PLAYBYTES area and then removed it from my disk. It was too obscene. I hope the problem with adult uploads is really just a sysop who isn't around very often and not a problem of censorship coming. That would be a tragedy. I sent uploads to the Geos area for both the male and female viewers. I didn't want anyone to be left out. ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 4 Sat Apr 09, 1988 C.BARBEE [FUSBINWA] at 08:52 EDT Ed Meese - Calling Ed Meese! How about a rating system? ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 5 Sun Apr 10, 1988 JBEE at 00:09 EDT censorship if they are too obscene just make them black and white! that way you don't show too much flesh. :D ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 6 Mon Apr 11, 1988 D.SCHMOLDT [Dave/SysOp] at 01:16 EDT Believe me, there are nude uploads that never get past the testing stage here because of the content. The ones that make it public could be called tame compared to some of those that don't. <grin> Obscenity is so much in the eye of the beholder ... what I object to, A.WALKER may find tame, or vice versa. Heck, not even the Supreme Court can define it. And we all know what wonderful people are on that bench. Dave ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 8 Wed Apr 13, 1988 H.HERMAN1 at 07:28 EDT Dave, Tell us!! What do you do with those "naught nudie" Hi-Res graphics that you won't post? And, who elected you censor? I abhor any form of censorship, other than that required for the public safety. I seriously doubt that "naughty nudies" would fall into this latter category. Tell us, is The General Electric Company in the '80's, still a stuffed shirt? What about political opinions? Am I free to express them here, or are these too censored on Genie? Where do you "the censor" draw the line? I think a lot of us would like to know what Genie's position is on these questions. Howie ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 9 Thu Apr 14, 1988 WC.COLEMAN [Geos*Sysop] at 03:20 EDT Let me ask you a question: how would you feel if you found out that your 11 year old daughter just downloaded a picture of some dude with a 3 foot dork??? Since we can't control who downloads a file once it has been made pubic a certain amount of restraint must be made. As for what you can say, the sky's the limit (as long as you keep it clean, for the same reason as the pictures). -WC ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 10 Thu Apr 14, 1988 H.HERMAN1 at 05:53 EDT WC, First off, I must ask you a question. What is a pubic file? Is it a file that grows hair? Why do you want to restrain it? Will it infect other files, that will also grow hair? I have never heard of such a thing. If in fact pubic files do exist, I would sure like to hear from you as to what they really are. On a more serious note, I have no objection to your censoring what your 11 year old daughter reads or looks at. However, I do strongly object to YOU acting as censor for MY 11 year old daughter. Your "point" just doesn't make sense, and doesn't score. Besides, while I haven't viewed any of those "nudies" which you have "passed- on" in your infinite wisdom, I seriously doubt that a cartoon image is going to affect an 11 year old one way or the other. If you wish to censor on the basis of age, and parental permission, then do so. But do not impose this on me. There are sections here that have limited access, and I'd suggest that you set this up for such material, and let adults be their own, and their children's censor. The "holier than thou", I know what is best for you attitude is simplistic, at its best. Now, as to hard core pornography, I would certainly not permit my children to be exposed to this. Nevertheless, when my niece and nephew were 7 and 9, they along with a dozen other neighborhood kids, each paid 25 cents to a kid who's parents were vacationing, to see his parent's video cassette porn collection. This kid even sold sodas and popcorn. They viewed the stuff for about 4 hours. As they talked about it later, they were all laughing, giggling, and had a great time. Interestingly, nothing "shocked" them, and they had already pretty much heard about all the stuff they saw. About all that afternoon did for those kids was to confirm that what they had heard about is indeed true. My point is that if you think you are protecting your 11 year old daughter by not letting her see a cartoon character, well I think your parenting is a bit misguided. Your efforts would be better rewarded if directed to censoring war, poverty, homeless people sleeping on sidewalks, and the list goes on. And, finally, I question why you inquire about "protecting" an 11 year old daughter? Is she more fragile than the 11 year old son? Haven't you learned anything from decades of Women's Lib? [Flame Off] Howie ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 11 Fri Apr 15, 1988 WC.COLEMAN [Geos*Sysop] at 00:04 EDT A file in the software Libraries can have two different statuses: hidden and public. When a file is first uploaded it is hidden until a SysOp can check it to make sure it runs properly (in the case of a program) not copyrighted or whatever. If everything is OK then it is set to public which means that everyone can see it. Personally I don't object to letting my children (when they reach that age - mine are still babies) see such pictures either but some people do object strongly to it. Since we have no way to know the age of the person receiving the file we can't allow 'hard' pornography in the Libraries (it is highly illegal to distribute such things to minors - and please I didn't write the law). As far as using a girl as an example it was just that - an example. You can insert the word son, clone, or hermaphrodite in the sentence if you wish. -WC ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 12 Sat Apr 23, 1988 L.HARRIS2 at 19:13 PDT This discussion does sound a bit strange. Somewhat like the man who absolutely HATED cops until HE needed one. Then when he could not find one, he complained BITTERLY about that!!!!! Maybe YOU don't object to your 11 year old daughter seeing pictures like those you describe, but there are those who DO! (Frankly, I don't object either, but that's another story). Those people have rights too (the very same rights that you have). Instead of griping about the problem, try to work out some sort of compromise that allows you to have what you want and yet allows the same choice for those who don't agree with you....????? .s ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 13 Fri Apr 29, 1988 DEB [*SysOp*] at 03:27 EDT Besides, folks, they are *MY* rules, not GEnie's... ;-) [Well, there ARE GEnie guidelines now, but our own policies predate GEnies] I have ALSO instructed everyone to reject files depicting VIOLENCE, the very utmost obscenity. My 7 and 10 year old girls *do* view the materials we have online. It is not often, but it does happen, that files are uploaded that are too explicit. There are some general guidelines for making these decisions, and since you've already got the topic started, I might as well spell them out. Files will not be made public if: -Genitals are depicted -Minors are involved in any suggestive manner -More than 1 person in a picture with nudity -A sexual act is depicted [this includes, but is not limited to; masturbation, sexual intercourse, sodomy, or any other form/kind of copulation] -Violent acts are depicted -Criminal actions are depicted or encouraged -And anything else which might be deemed as 'offensive' or 'obscene' We *have* rejected pictures because of genitals, minors, group shots, sexual acts and violence in the last couple of years. While I don't pretend that this is *not* censorship, GEnie is a widely available service to many different age groups. Were it available strictly to adults only, I wouldn't CARE what you wanted to look at. Every parent should have the right to judge for themself what they want their small children to see. [Try explaining some of THOSE things to your 7 year old...] When its publicly available, parents do *not* get that priviledge. Just like you can depend on movie ratings to adhere to a specific set of rules about what is in the movie, you can pretty much figure that files in the Library on the *FlagShip* are not X rated. Its the policy. and I think we made it here from the time the *FlagShip* opened its doors on GEnie. We also have a policy about words and actions in public messages and conferences which might offend people. More than censorship, we have felt it a responsibility to maintain a specific emphasis and quality. The major daily paper in your hometown does not print certain words. That is editorial CONTENT, STYLE and LICENSE. This is not really any different. We do not have the ability to create a closed software library for materials which are deemed too explicit for a public collection. Now, I know these have been strong words, but please don't be upset with Bill or GFX when a file is rejected...! And what few rejects we do have are usually carefully discussed first. I am not a fan or advocate of censorship-but the same right which guarantees you freedom of expression also guarantees me the right to choose what I will publish. Were someone to upload a TEXT file which involved racial slurs or demeaned any person or persons, I would _not_ publish that. I have seen many cries of 'censorship' over the years online. It seems a popular pole to rally around at times. We won't tell you what kind of messages you can leave, nor tell you what you should be thinking, nor tell you what you can and cannot talk about in your messages. We will use the above mentioned guidelines, though, to insure that the RT messages, conferences, and library files follow our general publication content and style. In addition to all of the above, last year I learned that every state in the un ion has its own definition of 'pornography' and 'obscene', and that I might be held liable under all sorts of state laws if someone chose to make a stink. I'm probably breaking some law in North Carolina by letting GFX upload Miss May '88, but I feel that we have a straightforward, standard and reasonable publishing policy that most any reasonable person, parent, judge or jury would understand. *deb!* ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 17 Sun May 08, 1988 CHARRINGTON [Courtney] at 17:06 PDT War should be pornographic and banned from the eyes of children. ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 15 Mon May 02, 1988 DEB [*SysOp*] at 00:30 EDT [I'm a pacifist, what can I say?] ------------ Category 1, Topic 72 Message 25 Wed Jul 06, 1988 C.WOODWORTH at 21:16 PDT DEB, I, for one, want to thank you for your policy as it stands. pete ------------