<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Lets start with a basic question.
<CLAIRE-W> <g>
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Okay.
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> How does one get an Internet Address on GEnie?
<[] Internet [] ANDY> That's an easy one. :-)
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Yup. nothing simpler.. Do nothing, and you got one.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> All you have to do is subscribe to GEnie. Your internet
address is then your GEnie Mail address (such as GENIEUS.PR) followed by
"@genie.geis.com". So, yours would be: GENIEUS.PR@genie.geis.com
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> While they answer, those with questions please send me a
note and you can each ask in order.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> It doesn't matter if you give it out as UPPER or lower or even MiXeD cased letters. GEnie's gateway to the Internet automatically takes care of things like that.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> and you too can get e-mail from 50 million other folks
with Internet e-mail access :)
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Kimberly has question.
<[Sarah P.] S.PHILLIPS1> that many? Incredible!
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> For those that are wondering, the GEIS is the parent
company of GEnie..
<R.RAFLER> When you receive Internet mail, why is the time shown at the top of
the msg earlier than the actual time sent? It shows up as being earlier! I know that it should be 5-10 hrs. later.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> It's actually later than the time it was sent, but about
5 to 10 hours, depending on the time zones of the various systems.
<[On Chat too] KIMBERLY> I know I heard a rumor at one point that someone out
there in the wide world of Internet could get to a U# prompt and use their
GEnie logon from there... is that true? has it been plugged up? can it be
unplugged? <G>
<[] Internet [] ANDY> (Things may have changed in the last three days or so,
upgrades were performed on the system)
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> It's true Kimberly; but it's not an official GEnie
service.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> I'll have to re-do my tests on time zones. Anyway the
reasons are complex, involving the time zone of GEnie, of GEIS, the sender of hte internet mail, and of the gateway machine.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Merit Network Services runs an Internet->sprintnet
gateway. Since GEnie is on sprintnet, you can get to it through there, so long as you don't plan on downloading. You do pay sprintnet surcharges...
<R.RAFLER> Andy, it might be worth checking into. Others have noticed that the time shown is earlier
<[On Chat too] KIMBERLY> no downloading - I have someone who wants to be a
guest on and RTC, and that's gonna be about the only way he can do it... how does he do it?
<[] Internet [] ANDY> I will check into it. :-)
<R.RAFLER> Thanks!!!
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Kimberly - that's the way to do it then.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> (In fact, mike just ran to check it, if yuo stick around
for a couple minutes)
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> You telnet to hermes.merit.edu, and when it asks Which
Host?, you tell it sprintnet-313171
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Any follow up, Kim?
<[On Chat too] KIMBERLY> nope - that sounds great - thanks a ton! :0 :), too! :)
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Ed has a question.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> You bet.. That's how those live rtcs from croatia were
done..
<ED.WILLIAMS> I've been seeing a number of companies pop up regionally in the
last few months offering SLIP and PPP accounts. They seem small start-ups
trying to cash in on Mosaic and Internet popularity. Is this happening
everywhere?
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Yea, Internet providers are popping up all over. But
they're offering slip and ppp because it's actually cheaper for them to offer services that way. Since you're computing is done locally.
<[Lib Mgr] GARS> Some are more tha regional - I have a NetCom account in
addition to my GEnie account
<ED.WILLIAMS> Storage and total connect time?
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Yes, as Gars says, some are national.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> OK, the date problem is still here. My 7PM test message shows as having arrived 5 hours before it was sent, but the internal headers show the UTC time, which is 5 hours after it was sent, sort of.
<JPMCNALLY> is it better then to go with a national and pay the 800 surcharge?
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Not sure I followed that Ed..
<[Lib Mgr] GARS> Ed, NetCom has POP's all over, and I think Houston is among
the wired cities
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Your best bet is to shop around, find the one that offers the combination of services, and technical knowledge that fits your needs, for a price you want.
<ED.WILLIAMS> I just commented that it was storage costs and total dial-up
access time that steered toward SLIP, right?
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> If you use a service allied with Sprint, you have about
150 POP's around the country, most major cities in other words.
<[skunky-I] SKUNKY> gary, no netcom pop in houston, dallas and austin
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> A net connection is a net connection; it's ALL in the
packaging.
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Before we go on to the next question...
<[Lib Mgr] GARS> There are several such services in most metro areas.
<ED.WILLIAMS> I know of at least four companies offering SLIP accounts here,
Gars.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Ah, Ed, right. That's basically it. Much less hardware
for slip servers than real timesharing machines.
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Andy, if all your staff has had a chance to arrive we would like a chance to meet them. :)
<ED.WILLIAMS> What about Mosaic? Anybody used it? Makes things less tough on
us novices?
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Talk to the providers; find one that you like dealing
with, that knows what they're doing, and will help you to the level you need.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> I think we're all here mostly, except for Andrea Duda.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> Was Andrea coming?
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Shall we have them introduce themselves? In order of height?
<[Sarah P.] S.PHILLIPS1> hehehe
<A2.GENA> :)
<HIYA.CHERYL> grin
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> I think that makes me first <G>
<[c64/128] THE.OUTLAW> :>
<J.JURADO> lol
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Okay. :-) I'm Andy, chief sysop of the Internet RT.
(Next Gary, Janet, Mike & Mike, Skunky, Sarah, and whoever else)
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> Unless we're going in descending order
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> Hi, I'm Mike Nolan, the chief bottleneck and cook washer (or something like that)
<[] Internet [] ANDY> <--organized. :)
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> I'm Janet -- I send welcome letters to newcomers on
Internet RT and answer e-mail questions. send me e-mail <G>
<[] Internet [] ANDY> And Ron :blush: :)
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Andy - Gee, I was just going to wait for "whoever else's" turn :-).
<[Lib Mgr] GARS> I'm Gary Smith. I sort of manage the library. Thanks to Sarah I don't have that much of a job.
<[Mike-I] MIKE.MC> I'm the other Mike... I help out at the Help Desks. Also I
manage the Unix RT here on Genie. (OH, I also am an assistant on Unix and chief sysop for the Database RT)
<CLAIRE-W> Busy man
<[skunky-I] SKUNKY> I'm skunky, I do the help desk 3 times a week, and I get
files from the internet for people.
<[Lib Mgr] GARS> I also manage the Unix Library, a RT I co-founded.
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> I clear the files and hassle the ftp guys and send out the
archie searches.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> most of us do more than one thing on GEnie. :-)
<[Donna] GENIEUS.BB2> FTP?
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> <-----VSRT asst. sysop... File Transfer Protocol, Donna.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> ftp - file transfer protocol, the way we 'fetch' files
from the big archive sites on the Internet
<[Donna] GENIEUS.BB2> Thanks. :)
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> That's how we get the files from the Internet.
<[Mike-I] MIKE.MC> FTP = Downloading files off Internet. maybe 5 terabytes of files out there these days, nobody really knows anymore.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> I'm Ron. I do directory searches, play Andy on TV (I
back him up as postmaster :-), and generally provide various bits of background technical support.
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> We could go into Choral Speaking.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> And answer lots of email...
<[skunky-I] SKUNKY> hahahahahahahaha
<[Lib Mgr] GARS> It's the internet way to "get" a file on one system and port
it to the one you are logged in on.
<ED.WILLIAMS> That'd be neat . . .
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> People store files at "archive" sites (think of libraries of files) at various Internet locations. Some of these allow "guests" to come in and download their files to their systems. That's FTP.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> Like Riva's chorus, Sarah?
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> I'd like to thank the INTERNET staff for working with me to find a time when most could join us. It is pleasure to meet you all.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> If you have a question, /SEND 10 it to Debi. :) (er.. not IT , but that you HAVe a question)
<[Lib Mgr] GARS> archie is a search facility that let's you do vast sytem wide
searches for a subject
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Walts is up next
<WALTS> Hi, got a question, first some backround... Looking at the INTERNET capabilities on GEnie... FTP will get you files -- we don't have that yet... There is the equivalent of CHAT -- which we don't have yet...
<[] Internet [] ANDY> not "live" but we'll do the hard part for ya. (okay, I'll wait til yer done typing. :> )
<WALTS> USENET will get you more Cats/Topics, threads, than you would know what to do with, we don't have that yet... Now, we can do Email thru the net, but other than sending a message, what do I want to do on Internet -- through GEnie?
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Not directly, but we deliver large chunks of usenet
daily, and provide a way to get back to it..
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> There's a fair amount you can do USING e-mail.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> You can also do gopher by email.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> I don't know what you want to do. Shall I assume the
services yuo mentioned? :-)
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> Like Archie searches, FTP, and gopher.
<WALTS> Andy, I am trying to understand what I would want to do through GEnie,
using Internet ...or could do for that matter...currently can
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> And as has been mentioned, FTP, archie, and digests of
several newsgroups is already available through the Internet RT.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Oh... you mean that isn't already here on GEnie in some
form?
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> What you want to do, or what you currently can do, Walt?
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Well, let me answer what I think is your question. :) ........ I am not prepared tonight to make any announcements about expanded internet services on GEnie, or the possibilities thereof. Given that, let's talk about what's out there that can be accessed via the Internet in whatever form. Okay?
<WALTS> Sounds great to me -- and helpful
<[] Internet [] ANDY> There's electronic mail. We have that, and it works
pretty well.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> except when it doesn't.
<J.JURADO> ok, altho like WALTS, I'm curious about the future...
<[Sarah P.] S.PHILLIPS1> hehehe
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Right. :) There are discussion bulletin boards, called "USENET" and comprising several thousand "Newsgroups". We currently offer about 71 (more or less) of these digested and compressed three times a week. Some other RoundTables have additional ones, including the best posts from the HIV topics in the Chat lines, etc.
<WALTS> ...71 out of several thousands?
<[On Chat too] KIMBERLY> (who decides the best posts)
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Those are the ones people asked for, Walt.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Yes. Frankly, we ran out of uploading and downloading
capacity.
<JPMCNALLY> don't be such a crepe hanger, Walt.....
<WALTS> ...understood
<[] Internet [] ANDY> the best posts - for HIV - are determined by the
uploader, in this case STAR.THROWER.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> Walt, the total volume of news is about 150MB per day,
imagine uploading that at 2400 baud.
<[On Chat too] KIMBERLY> ahh :) fair nuff! :)
<[] Internet [] ANDY> The 71+ we do are "full" no posts barred.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Imagine uploading that for about 45 hours a day..
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Okay. so we have MAIL and USENET.
<WALTS> ...I do understand and that's part of why I asked what I did <g>
<[Sarah P.] S.PHILLIPS1> so if more were requested, more would be available?
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Soon as andy finishes installing his new system.
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> If we also had more capacity, Sarah.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> there are about a hundred waiting in the queue to
implement.
<[skunky-I] SKUNKY> lots more have been requested....
<[Sarah P.] S.PHILLIPS1> ah, okay, thanks
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> Remember, some staffer has to sit and upload these.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> I just bought a new system dedicated 100% to serving
GEnie.
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> There are quite a pile of questions here. Y'all be ready
if you can when your turn pops up.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> We also have three file-related services.
<WALTS> ...and they are
<[] Internet [] ANDY> ARCHIE searches through the ARCHIVE listings. directory listings, and file requests, through "FTP".
<WALTS> ...we CAN do FTP?
<[] Internet [] ANDY> yes.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> and ANOTHER staffer has to download the file to make
sure it is valid before it is cleared.
<[skunky-I] SKUNKY> indirectly.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> item 12 on page 1405.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> We do FTP for you, or you can use the FTP-by-Mail server.
<[skunky-I] SKUNKY> 12?
<[] Internet [] ANDY> What else is out there - i'll just name names for the
moment.
<WALTS> ...ah indirectly -- not full FTP access
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Full ftp access if you want to learn the ftp commands
yourself, and use the mail server.
<WALTS> So we have email, limited USENET, and indirect FTP -- anything else?
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> Walt, in some ways our fetch service is BETTER than full ftp access, we take care of the headaches.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> archie searches
<WALTS> ...understood
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> You can use e-mail service. There's a great file in the
Internet library telling how to do it. MAILX.TXT is the name of it.
<J.JURADO> well...at least the e-mail works well and it's cheap.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Alright. Let's move on to the other questioners. :-)
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Ben, go ahead.
<WALTS> Thanks Andy ...and the rest of ya!
<BACCHUS> Thanks :) I saw something a bit earlier about your not wanting to discuss future plans for Inet access here..? (meaning, I guess I can't ask if full shell accounts would be available here?)
<[] Internet [] ANDY> I said I wasn't prepared to discuss the possibility,
tonight. :-)
<BACCHUS> Ah :)
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Oh, I can tell you what I would do *IF* I were to do
something here on GEnie. no shells. :-)
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> I rather doubt that full shell accounts will be made
available, actually. too much mischief can be raised from one.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> (a shell is a program that interfaces between you and the underlying commands and operating system. Liek COMMAND.COM is for DOS, and the Finder is for Macs.)
<BACCHUS> Menus, then?
<[] Internet [] ANDY> A really good Internet service will match the capabilities and needs of its users. Command lines for those who like them,
menus for those who want them, and full front-end program support for those who need them.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> And of course, a top notch service would have a staff of
people who know the internet, and can explain it, to demystify things..
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> sound familiar :)
<[On Chat too] KIMBERLY> <g>
<[] Internet [] ANDY> (believe it or not..... people who use other systems come to the Internet RT for help!)
<BACCHUS> I don't WANT my access "demystified" <G>
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Next Question.... Molly!
<ED.WILLIAMS> We can believe that, Andy.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Well, a really first class service could probably arrange to mystify it a bit for you, if you prefer :-)
<[Molly] USA.4> Hi all! Thanks for being here with one of my fave topics...
<[] Internet [] ANDY> ::tooting his own horn:: :-)
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> Oh, you believe in Clarke's Law? (any sufficiently
advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic)
<[Molly] USA.4> I'm very interested in knowing what resources, along with the
valuable resources here on GEnie, would help supplement one's education about
the internet... books, files to FTP, that sort of thing. GA
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Files, we got files. :-)
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Best start is to search in our library for the keyword
BEGINNER
<JPMCNALLY> dummy's a good keyword too...
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> :::scribbling:::
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> 'tutorial' is another good keyword
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> Nah. Dummy will just get you one file. BIGDUMMY. Which granted is good. But beginner will get you that and many more.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Well, beginner will find the Big Dummy's Guide to the
Internet; and all the others ones we tagged as being useful for starters.
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> Search on 'beginner' in the library, too.
<[Molly] USA.4> what about actual hard-copy books, any recommendations there?
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Lot of people object to that name, but it really is a
good start.
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> In the bulletin board, go to Category 10. Topic 2 is the Way New Beginners Guide and Topic 4 is a FAQ closed topic.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> I really like Ed Krol's "THE WHOLE INTERNET, USER GUIDE
AND CATALOG".
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> oh, there are a dozen or so good ones, we tend to like
Ed Krol's book which is in 2nd edition now.
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> Start with Krol. It's the best.
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> Absolutely.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Then there's Zen and the Art of Internet...
<[] Internet [] ANDY> It's available here online (I *think*) in PCBOOKS, one for the mall bookstores. it was just updated, so make sure you get the thicker 1994 version.
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> Published by O'Reilly & Associates. Want an ISBN#?
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> But be sure you get the second edition.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> and I should point out that I BOUGHT my copy, no freebee.
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> Oops. MIne is the older edition <sigh>
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> Hold a moment and I'll get the ISBN File*
<[Lib Mgr] GARS> novice and beginner, along with tutor will yield about a dozen worthwhile files. Read at a minimum BIGDUMMY, SURFING and ZEN
<[] Internet [] ANDY> you can also order direct: 800-998-9938. (I think)
<[Molly] USA.4> yes! Wonderful Sarah, thank you
<JPMCNALLY> 1-56592-025-2
<[Molly] USA.4> I have read all three...I'm looking for a comprehensive
<[] Internet [] ANDY> If you are on the internet, you can "telnet books.com"
and order from there, as well.
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> This is the second edition.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Next question? :-)
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> If you have the first, you can send in the title page and
get 25% off.
<[Lib Mgr] GARS> That 800 number is correct, and I can personally vouch for ORA service and dedication to Unix/Internet
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Gena, go ahead.
<[Molly] USA.4> Thanks! Final comment: I didn't hear anyone mention the
advantage of Listservers that can bring many newsgroups to one's GE mail address.
<A2.GENA> Andy, what about the Public Dial Access sites?
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Remember that a hardcopy guide will probably be out of
dateby the time it's published. But it's still a good start.to one's GE Mail.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> There's a good reason for that, Molly. :-)
<A2.GENA> Molly, but be careful...I "joined" com.sys.apple and got 75+ letters
per day!
<[Lib Mgr] GARS> we regularly post a current list of List servers, good point
Molly
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Oh - Important note about books. More than one says that genie addresses are user@genie.com. Don't believe them! It's wrong, and
causes a lot of problems.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> some of them generate more traffic than that, Gena.
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> A2.GENA's point is well taken. Some of these groups are
VERY busy.
<[Lib Mgr] GARS> A2.GENA also makes a good point. Be very sure you are ready
for a very large mail dump - daily
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> They are user@genie.geis.com; accept no substitutes :-).
<[] Internet [] ANDY> okay. We carry the "Public Dial-up Internet Access
Providers" list, called PDIALxxx.TXT, i think the latest version is
PDIAL015.TXT . It's a short text file showing several providers around the
coutnry.
<A2.GENA> Andy, two questions about that. First, I tried to <L>ist them, and
they came out tototally unformatted :(. My 2nd question relates to freenets
<[Molly] USA.4> quick comment: Many lists are available in index forms...helps cut the load
<[] Internet [] ANDY> You mean they came out stair-stepped?
<A2.GENA> Yeah!
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Okay. that means it's a Unix-based text file that I
forgot to "flip" into standard (ms-dos) form.
<A2.GENA> I use ProTERM 3.1...would it have been better for me to have dl it
zmodem? I'm on a Apple IIGS
<[] Internet [] ANDY> I'd go ahead and capture it to a file and run one of the
A2 Text File converters. I used to know the name of a file that did it, but I
haven't touched an IIgs in about 5 years now. :( I'd search on MS-DOS on page 645 though.
<A2.GENA> There are a couple, I think..., Andy...I'll ask
<[] Internet [] ANDY> The freenet list is posted in category 2 topic X by
Andrea Duda. It's pretty comprehensive. :)
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> Back briefly to the listserver question. If you're
interested in looking into these, first read one of the "general" beginner
texts (like BIGDUMMY or ZEN), then get a file called MAILX.TXT, which will show you how to "subscribe."
<A2.GENA> Anyways, how much access can one usually expect to have through PD
access and/or freenets?
<[skunky-I] SKUNKY> and the freenet list was just updated this week...
<A2.GENA> I'm thinking of two - Cleveland Freenet and Heartland FreeNet
<[] Internet [] ANDY> freenets: very little comparatively speaking, and you
generally have to fight through busy signals just to get online. some access providers are good about supplying user demand, others just live with BUSY signals. :(
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> The mailx.txt file is chock full of good information on how
to do stuff by mail.
<A2.GENA> I've checked one called ChiNet...got in to a BBS type thingie, and
got into what I thought was a shell..but when I tried the commands, kept
getting something that said I couldn't use 'em can't remember EXACTLY what was said...but no access seemed to be the theme
<[] Internet [] ANDY> are you in the suburbs?
<A2.GENA> Well...Chicago is NOT an L/D call Someone told me NetCom would be $20/month, unlimited access and there's a netcom node? in Chicago
<[] Internet [] ANDY> I'd recommand Karl Denninger's MCS net system. I can't
remember if he's a .net or a .com. :-) He is similarly priced. (yes, node is the word)
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> $17.50 if you let them charge your credit card in advance.
<A2.GENA> Right...yes, that was through ChiNet
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> Skunky, is there a Chicago node?
<[skunky-I] SKUNKY> i cant look it up, im on the laptop....
<A2.GENA> NO CC, do they bill, or is it through billing or bank withdrawal
(EFT)? I know that MCS has a Chicago node - ChiNet
<[skunky-I] SKUNKY> a2.gena, if you will send me mail, i will look and see if
here is a netcom node in chicago...
<D.KRIVANOS> <--- Member of Cleveland Freenet.....yes busy often....Good free
mailbox though..
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Okya. next quesiotn.
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> They bill. Then it's close to $20.
<A2.GENA> Thanks, and I will, Skunky :)
<CHET.W> Would that be me Debi?
<HIYA.CHERYL> go for it Chet :)
<CHET.W> My question is a very general one.. The size and scope of the internet is overwhelming to me... Therefore I have avoided it.... Do you think that this is common?
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Yes, very common.
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> Given some of the mail I've seen, I =know= it's common.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> There is SO much stuff out there.
<CHET.W> And my understanding is that there is really no one in charge of the
whole thing. Is that correct?
<J.JURADO> ...but ya' know, it's the mail that gets a lot of us into it!
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Takes a good library science person to bring it under
control.
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> Chet, you don't have to do everything. You can learn how to ftp files in a few minutes, and with a good book you can do just the things
that interest you.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> There's not any one "thing" to be incharge of.. The
Internet is actually
<CHET.W> Do you think that the info. hwy. of the future will be through the
internet
<[skunky-I] SKUNKY> NOTE TO ALL! There is an Internet RT help desk on Sunday
nights, at 8pm, (400;4;4)
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> dozens and dozens of seperate networks that just
cooperate together.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> that's correct, Chet. The Internet isn't a single
system or network, it is around a million computers world-wide.
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> And an RTC every Tuesday night in the INTERNET RT. We're there to help!
<[Mike-I] MIKE.MC> Also Thursday Night... at 10pm (400;4;4)
<CHET.W> I guess my problem is I just don't have a clue as to where I would be
interested in starting
<[Mike-I] MIKE.MC> Three nights a week... :)
<J.JURADO> We appreciate it
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> A lot depends on what you are interested in.
<CHET.W> <nods>
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> There are interest groups (USENET newsgroups and
listserve e-mail groups)
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> And there are the archives we mentioned earlier with
files that might interest you.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> what if you were to have the WHOLE internet presented to
you as a series of menues, organized by subject areas and what not?
<CHET.W> How do you overcome this shyness of starting to use the Internet I think that would certainly be a start Andy
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> Jump in. Do you have a hobby? Or a particular interest?
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Chet - pick something small. Like "I want to get info on dogs"
<[] Internet [] ANDY> ::scribble:: okay, I'll keep that one in mind. :)
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Next question? Yes?
<[Sarah P.] S.PHILLIPS1> Id like to "second" the menues idea
<[] Internet [] ANDY> yes. :-)
<CHET.W> Having a list of what is available would be really super thanks folks
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Cam, go ahead.
<[c64/128] THE.OUTLAW> Hi Folks!.. I'm just finding my way to internet now &
I'm aware of some CBM Digest files... would it be permissible to u/l some of
those to our area, noting they came from your RT and perhaps introducing more CBM users to the internet?
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> chet - drop by the RT; we've got lists of lists...
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> Chet, how did you cope with all the choices on GEnie
when you first signed up?
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Yes.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Next? :)
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> c64 - that's a pretty standard thing for other rt's to do.
<[c64/128] THE.OUTLAW> I didn't want to step on anyones toes by doing it
without permission :>
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Jim, go ahead.
<[Jim] GENIEUS.BB1> Quite a bit if information passes through the Internet
daily, as you have stated. Everything, I imagine, from "I'll get you!"
comments to poetry dedicated to spinach. How do copyright laws apply to this
information, with respect to distribution outside of the Internet? Or do they?
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Jim Bard.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Good question. I defer my answer until suitable counsel
has been selected. Claire? :grin:
<[skunky-I] SKUNKY> hahahahahahahaha
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Okay. Here's my "take" on it.
<[Jim] GENIEUS.BB1> <G>
<CLAIRE-W> Jim - there have been a number of lawsuits recently - and it's a
real quandry -I'd be very careful about what you post and reposting stuff Cyberspace is not immune from the copyright laws
<[] Internet [] ANDY> I don't know how valid it is, and whenever I ask "does it work like this" I always get back an answer about "it's more complicated than yuo can possible imagine" or words like that.
<[Jim] GENIEUS.BB1> LOL!!
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> In terms of 'original' material, the untested legal
assumption is that things posted to USENET are intended for distribution, hence there is no copyright issue involved in reposting them.
<CLAIRE-W> The courts are still trying to determine how to apply those laws
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> Some folks post with a disclaimer saying it's okay to
distribute. Those are probably safe. Some folks post with a statement saying
"no further than here" and that's fairly clearly unsafe. That's "primary
material."
<[] Internet [] ANDY> First off - the digests we make for the Internet RT are
full and unselected versions of a usenet newsgroup. The moment we do a
selection we need to ask the individual authors.
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Ask two people that question on the Internet, and you'll
get three opinions.
<[Jim] GENIEUS.BB1> Okay, then I guess it's still kind of a "grey" area, but
better to be safe than sorry. Thanks!
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> That doesn't exempt the writer from liability for what
is written, nor does it give readers blanket permission to do what they want
with other people's writing.
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Next question? Yes?
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Secondly as a service to the Internet, each of our
digests are also available as an Internet mailing list (currently well hidden
'cuz Mike's machine is ... loaded down). This prevents those folks from saying "Look, Big Bad COmmercial Online Service Is Profiting From My WOrds, I Want A Cut."
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> The best equivalent is sort of like something shouted
out in a crowded room, you said it, everybody else heard it.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> okay. next. :-)
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> MOONSHADOW go ahead.
<[On Chat too] KIMBERLY> [[James] MOONSHADOW says:] I have access to
UseNet(Internet) viaDELPHI, and local FIDONET nodes.. would I be allowed
to takenewsgroups, and upload them? Or would that make things tooconfusing? -GA-
<[] Internet [] ANDY> it depends. :>
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> and to continue the 'shouting' analogy, if there is a
microphone in the room and a speaker in another room, that's the equivalent of
transmitting news from one system to another.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> ask me again in mail where I can be more detailed. :) Next?
<PROF.MARK> I'm trying to find information about how to send messages FROM
other services, like AOL, Prodigy, CompuServe, Bix, and Delphi, TO GEnie, and I was wondering how or where I can find information about the Internet mail
formats for those services. And howdy, Andy. :)
<[] Internet [] ANDY> There's two places: a file called the Inter-Network-Mail-Guide. and category for in the current Internet bulletin board. four, too.
<J.JURADO> How can I find out someone else's Inet ID for e-mail?
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> All too often, the answer is "call them on the phone and
ask them."
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> hope they put it on their business card.
<PROF.MARK> Internet Mail Guide... Didn't know such a thing existed. Great!
Thanks
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Here's a short lie:<[] Internet list, too! (geesh)
** <ANDY> was <[] Internet [] ANDY>.
<ANDY> Examples to reach the different gateways:
<ANDY>
<ANDY> Internet -- user@site.subdomain.domain
<ANDY> CompuServe -- 70002.002@compuserve.com
<ANDY> America Online -- user@aol.com
<ANDY> MCI Mail -- 248-3894@MCIMail.com
<ANDY> JMorris@MCIMail.com
<ANDY> Applelink -- user@applelink.apple.com
<ANDY> Bix -- user@dcibix.das.net
<ANDY> AT&T Mail -- user@attmail.com
<ANDY> Sprint Telemail -- user@sprint.com
<ANDY> BITNET -- user@domain.BITNET
<J.JURADO> yeah, but with the time zone changes and the bad phones in Eastern
Europe...and I don't spaek Czech, etc. IT AIN't EASY.
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> there's also another similar file which just addresses
reaching people at colleges and universities.
<[Sarah -I] SARAH> In the Internet library, 11413 MAILGUIDE.TXT
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> Mark - it's not a phone book; it's a set of guidelines
for searching for addresses..
<PROF.MARK> That's great, Andy! Thanks!
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> There really isn't a complete "phone book" of ALL
Internet addresses. I understand there's a new book on the market tho ...
Internet White Pages. Don't know how good <complete> it is.
<PROF.MARK> When I get done, Jan, there will be for the major services. ;)
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> You mean the major Commercial services like GEnie, etc?
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> Is that it, Prof?
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> That WILL be helpful.
<PROF.MARK> Yes.
<J.JURADO> Would we as GEnie customers be in the I-net white pages>?!!
<PROF.MARK> Yes, to you, too Debi. ;)
<[Mike-II] MIKE.NOLAN> we estimated once that there may be as many as 5000
changes in Internet addresses every day, maybe more than that worldwide.
<[Debi] GENIEUS.PR> As popular as these Internet Sysops are.... I'm afraid we
will have to unlock the door and let them loose if ever expect them to visit
again. Andy and all at Internet, you have my thanks for bringing to GENIEus
the most successful MTS yet.
<[] Internet [] ANDY> Thanks! Hope to see y'all over on the 'Net RT. :) it was fun!!
<[Sarah P.] S.PHILLIPS1> Thanks guys! It was great having you here!!
<[Ron-I] RON.JARRELL> The white pages mostly lists people who saw their
announcements and asked to be listerd.
<BACCHUS> THANKS, guys!! :)
<[] Internet [] ANDY> can we come back? :)
<WALTS> ...thanks people -- you gave good info!
<[Jim] GENIEUS.BB1> Wow, thanks millions for being here!
<[c64/128] THE.OUTLAW> Thanx for the info folks!
<[Janet@Intern] JANS> We'd welcome ya'll coming over to our RTC. We can answer more questions. Tuesday night at 10.
<[Molly] USA.4> You all do a fabulous job! Thank you SO SO Much!
