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 <C> 1994 by GEnie
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This conference was held on June 21st, 1994.  Steve Main from GeoWorks was
the
guest speaker.  The topics covered Steve's beginnings in computers to new
products from GeoWorks.  The conference as a whole was very informative,
and
gives the reader an insight on what is and was happening in the GEOS
realm.

Capture by Cam Stewart
Editing by Tim Hewelt
Behind the scenes communication by Sherry Freedline
Hosting by Tim Hewelt

==========================================================================

Room 6, GEOS DEN
Job     City         Room Sta Mail-Address
  1 Derwood,MD          6   N [mike] T.KENGLA
  2 Damascus,MD         6   N [James] J.KOLB1
  3 Pocatello,ID        6   N [Wichita] W.BLUNDELL
  4 Crescent,OK         6   N [Arthur] A.PLATT3
  5 Clarkston,MI        6   L GEOS-TIM
  6 Hamilton,OH         6   N [Snogpitch] D.WITMER2
  7 Natrona height,PA   6   N [Sherry] C128-QT.PIE
  8 Wacko,TX            6   N THE.OUTLAW
  9 Berkeley,CA         6   N [GEOS STEVE] GW.STEVE

<[GEOS STEVE] GW.STEVE> I'm feeling pretty good. It's kinda warm
here in Walnut Creek.. but I'm not gonna turn on the air
conditioning..

<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> Are you ready for all of us inquisitive
Commodore users?
<GEOS-TIM> I don't have air in my Computer room.....
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> <g>

<[GEOS STEVE] GW.STEVE> The Grind is on MTV.. maybe that's why
I'm feeling a little warm...
<GEOS-TIM> LOL
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> Giggle

<[GEOS STEVE] GW.STEVE> ::tugging at shirt collar::

<THE.OUTLAW> ick
<[Snogpitch] D.WITMER2> Must be hard to breathe

<[GEOS STEVE] GW.STEVE> Howdy, Outlaw!

<GEOS-TIM> Steve, THE.OUTLAW is our capture and edit man.

<THE.OUTLAW> Hiya Steve! :>
<GEOS-TIM> You should be nice to him.LOL

<[GEOS STEVE] GW.STEVE> I'm ready as I'm gonna get.. ;)

<THE.OUTLAW> Who Me?
<THE.OUTLAW> I am nice!
<GEOS-TIM> QT will be doing behind the scenes stuff
<THE.OUTLAW> Ask Sherry!
<THE.OUTLAW> <g>
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> like harassing Tim :)
<GEOS-TIM> We have about three minutes before show time

<[James] J.KOLB1> Lets get this show on the road! :)
** <W.OVE> is here.
** <CMD-DOUG> is here.
<GEOS-TIM> Hi Will, Doug,

<[GEOS STEVE] GW.STEVE> Hiyas, Doug!

<CMD-DOUG> Hi Tim, Steve, all! :)
<THE.OUTLAW> did you pay the $29 fee Jim?? then we can 'get the
show on the road!'

** <[Mink] GW.STEVE> was <[GEOS STEVE] GW.STEVE>.

<[James] J.KOLB1> :D
<GEOS-TIM> forgot to tell him about the fee.LOL
** <[Fox] C128-QT.PIE> was <[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE>.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Are you taking taxes out of the fee?
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> ROTF!

<THE.OUTLAW> tsk tsk  Slipping Tim!
<[James] J.KOLB1> Tim collected it at the door , did'nt he?
<GEOS-TIM> Ya....getting poorer too
** <[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> was <[Fox] C128-QT.PIE>.
<[James] J.KOLB1> Wha :: fumble for change in his pocket ::
<GEOS-TIM> We will be going into listen only mode in a few
minutes.....I will be asking
<CMD-DOUG> How are those new offices, Steve? All settled now?
<GEOS-TIM> some questions and we will be opening the conference
to questions from the

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> The offices are wonderful.. a big improvement,
even

<GEOS-TIM> people in attendance.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> if the view isn't as great.

<GEOS-TIM> You raise your hands for questions by typing /rai

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> For the benefit of others... Geoworks moved
into some new offices in Alameda early this year.. we used to be
in Berkeley. Alameda is an island in San Francisco Bay, just
south of the Oakland Bay Bridge

<CMD-DOUG> Hmmm... is that where they keep the 'nuclear wessels'?
:)
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> giggle
<THE.OUTLAW> hehhe
<CMD-DOUG> ::grin::
<GEOS-TIM> You really have gotten rid of the Berkeley label...all
the way to location

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Used to be ... there's a naval air station at
the north end of Alameda... but it's closing down as part of the
base closures all over the country.

<GEOS-TIM> Okay....ready?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> The city of Alameda has plans to develop the
land. It's a great spot

<[James] J.KOLB1> set?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> right on the bay with views of The City.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> <-- settin' yup!

** <GEOS-TIM> Room is now listen-only.
Room is now in listen-only mode.

<GEOS-TIM> Welcome to the Steve Main Conference !!!
<GEOS-TIM> Steve Main is the Tech Support, and Online Supervisor
for...GeoWorks. I will be asking some questions, followed by
yours
<GEOS-TIM> Steve, I am glad you could come

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Thanks for inviting me, Tim! It's really my
pleasure.

<GEOS-TIM> I have several questions that I wanted to ask, and we
will then get into the many questions that all these folks want
to ask.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Sounds perfect!

<GEOS-TIM> For those folks that are new to Commodore, and
GEOS.....GeoWorks started out by making GEOS for the 64.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I have no prepared speeches to give.. so bear
with my fumbly fingers.

<GEOS-TIM> They have now moved to other computer platforms.
Okay.....

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Back in those days, Geoworks was known as
Berkeley Softworks.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Oh, okay!
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> END

<GEOS-TIM> Steve, I talked to you the other day, and you listed a
bundle of titles. What are your titles over at GEoWorks now?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Well, my official title is Senior Support
Representative.  My primary concerns are two.. I function as
Director of Online Services and I provide most of the technical
support for the GEOS SDK (Software Development Kit)--the tools
for writing GEOS programs that run on devices that use
Intel-compatible processors.  Which include desktop computers, as
well as what we call the coming "fourth wave"  consumer computing
devices... things like the Zoomer, the Sharp PT-9000 pen based
notepad, dedicated word processors, smart office machines
television set top boxes, and such.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> END

<GEOS-TIM> Sounds like GeoWorks is really expanding....We will
touch on this a little later..
<GEOS-TIM> Dropping back in time.....When and how did you get
started in the Commodore 64 area?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Well, I'm really only about five years old as a
computer user... (my age is 42, in case you're wondering)

<GEOS-TIM> Just a youngster

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> In February of '89, I was selling a truck and
the fellow who wanted to buy it was so excited, that after the
test drive, he forgot he had tied his dog to the bumper of his
old truck and drove off... It's okay... the dog survived, despite
some big scratches... But, when the vet got through with him, he
couldn't afford the truck.. and he asked me if I'd consider
taking a computer in trade for part of the price I was asking. I
said, "Sure." Well. That was a Commodore 64, with an MPS 801 and
a 1541 drive.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I took it home and plugged it into my TV set...
The first software I bought, via Tenex mail order, was GEOS 2.0

<GEOS-TIM> Good choice

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I started playing with that, bought more GEOS
stuff, a monitor, etc... And along with GEOS 2.0 came a disk for
connection to "that other" online service... so of course, I
signed on...
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> A year later, I was writing Assembly language
stuff using GeoProgrammer and I'd become a GeoRep in the GEOS
Arena, helping other users. I'd had not previous training in
computers at all. Somehow, they just seemed "natural" and piqued
my interest.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> That's how I got started. :)
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> ENS
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> oops.. END

<GEOS-TIM> I wasn't aware that you had used the computer for such
a short time. really a success story.
And writing Assembly language....wow!! You have impressed me.
Gosh, I feel like I'Ve been sitting around doing nothing.LOL
<GEOS-TIM> You answered by second question.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> You have... er.. I mean... You have?

<GEOS-TIM> Going to one more personal question

<GEOS-TIM> LOL

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Just kidding... You've done a great job

<GEOS-TIM> Thanks......I'll give you that money later.
<GEOS-TIM> Hosting for those several years must have given you a
lot of rewards and trials  What did you like most about hosting?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Well, there's always a tremendously rewarding
feeling that comes from sharing the knowledge I've figured out or
learned from others and seeing folks' solve their problems, or
"awaken" into new understandings.  In addition, I always really
enjoyed the "press"... i.e. the challenge of being ' "on my toes"
in the chat room... trying to juggle and answer several folks at
once. And I think the third thing that inspired me about hosting
chat rooms, and about the entire idea of online services and
virtual reality, if you will, is that we are all the same here. I
mean, I don't know what you look like, what color, creed, size,
age, even gender, you might be, except insofar as you tell me.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> It gives us the opportunity to get to know each
other in ways we might never have before this type of medium
existed. Some of you might never speak to me if you met me on the
street... for example... yet, we can meet here in a chat room and
all we have to judge each other by is our pixels... i.e. our
words and our thoughts.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> That's such a fascinating concept to me.. and
something new in the history of the world.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> END

<GEOS-TIM> Steve, you have used the Commodore 64/128 for several
years.  You now work with PC applications and fourth wave
products. What do you see as advantages for sticking with the
64/128?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I really appreciate my introduction to
computers via the C=64 and later the 128. I often think of the
couple Volkswagons I had in my life. I never took auto shop in
school or anything, but because the Volkswagon was designed to be
a "user maintained" car, I ended up learning how, on my own, to
rebuild those beasts, and I rebuilt two of them, from the
crank up. The Commodore, for me, was similar. I learned how an OS
works, what the hardware does, what a byte is... I quickly got up
to speed on the Commodore, running disk editors and hacking
things and programming stuff for my little floor covering
business and for my dad to manage his golf tournaments, etc..
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Sometimes I miss the folks who I hung with
using Commodores..I feel that the Commodore crowd is more
self-sufficient and more "into the nuts and bolts" of the machine
than the folks who use PCs.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> That's one advantage...
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> There's no denying, of course, now.. that the
Commodore is at least not a growing market... especially since
CBM's recent announcements.. that's bittersweet... it means that
some things will be harder to find... but it also means that some
things will be less expensive.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I used my Commodore and GEOS to run my whole
floor covering business for several years. And there's even more
hardware and more robust software available now than there was
when I was doing that. So, if the Commodore has what you need,
then it's a great platform..just like my Volkswagons were great
little cars, eh?
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> END

<GEOS-TIM> I have one more question, than I will turn it over to
questions from the floor.  As you mentioned, Commdore recently
went under.  Having a position in the computer industry where you
often hear info that may not be available to others
Have you heard anything about what might be happening to
Commodore inventory, and design?......and how do you think it
might impact the C= user
...?

Room 6, GEOS DEN
Job     City         Room Sta Mail-Address
  3 Pocatello,ID        6   N [Wichita] W.BLUNDELL
  4 Salem,MA            6   N C128.JBEE
  5 Clarkston,MI        6   L GEOS-TIM
  6 Hamilton,OH         6   N [Snogpitch] D.WITMER2
  7 Natrona height,PA   6   N [Sherry] C128-QT.PIE
  8 Wacko,TX            6   N THE.OUTLAW
  9 Berkeley,CA         6   N [Mink] GW.STEVE
 11 East longmeado,MA   6   N CMD-DOUG
 12 Crescent,OK         6   N A.PLATT3
?
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Unfortunately, I don't have any "insider scoop"
about CBM or what the folks who are vying for some of their
inventory and rights are doing. I've been pretty much limited to
hearing about the news the same as all of you, I expect.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> As I said before, I expect some parts and stuff
will be harder to find and other things might be cheaper and
easier, as some folks perhaps move away from the platform. But I
don't forsee a tremendous change. Most of CBM's sales of
64s in the past few years have been in Europe, if I understand
what I've been reading.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> There are millions of 64s and 128s, and many of
them still in use. And GEOS and CMD (yay, CMD!) have really kept
the platform alive.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I suspect there are many years ahead for
everyone who's interested in continuing to use their C=.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> END

<GEOS-TIM> We are now opening the conference to questions.  If
you would like to ask a question...just type /rai
** <CMD-DOUG>, Job 11 hand is raised.
<GEOS-TIM> Doug has a question.....Doug Cotton is from CMD
<GEOS-TIM> Go ahead Doug
<CMD-DOUG> Steve, I thought I read about a deal with Canon and
Geoworks. You also mentioned office equipment in the 'fourth
wave'. Can you tell us a little more about what devices you're
talking about?
** <C128.JBEE>, Job 4 hand is raised.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Sure. Thanks  thinking of that... In the next
couple months, Canon will bring to market the Star Writer, a
GEOS-based dedicated word processor. It's a Canon BubbleJet
printer built into a unit that looks like a typewriter. The
screen is a separate mono-vga monitor... it uses a 286-level
processor, which is actually quite robust
when running

<C128.JBEE> Kind of like their portable 486 laptops but cheaper?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> the GEOS system software.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Well, this is a unit designed for the crowd who
are not yet ready for a full on computer, or who feel they only
need a word processor.

<CMD-DOUG> The IBM Selectric crowd...

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> You've all seen these kind of devices in Wards,
Sears, etc... But! Instead of only seeing a few lines of text at
a time, and

<C128.JBEE> Like those hundreds of thousands that buy those Smith
or Brother
word
<C128.JBEE> processors?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> instead of being limited to one or two fonts,
etc...
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Yes, JBEE, exactly.. only this unit takes a big
step...
** <CMD-DOUG> disconnected.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> scalable fonts from 4 to 792 points... columns,
grahics, newsletters, mail merge, a bunch of new functionality
before only available on a computer.

<C128.JBEE> so they will be sold in stores like Staples?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> yet at a price that's about a hundred dollars
less than the other similar products and several times more
functional than what folks were buying in this same market a year
ago.

<C128.JBEE> will you be able to take your floppy from your Canon
and use it on
your PC?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Yes, Staples, and in dept stores.. and at Frys,
Circuit City... Yes, the StarWriter will have a PC-compatable 3.5
inch drive.

<GEOS-TIM> That will make it useful to a lot of folks

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> List is expected at around $599, with street
prices maybe a hundred less. or thereabouts.
** <THE.OUTLAW> disconnected.

<C128.JBEE> okay -> question of the night ...
<C128.JBEE> BTW:I just got Ensemble 2.0 and I want to thank you
for making the 2.1 upgrade
<C128.JBEE> available on GEnie :)  Now ... what a great idea to
release geoPublish online,
<C128.JBEE> what arms had to be twisted for that and what
prompted GeoWorks to do it?
<C128.JBEE> (hope this wasnt covered earlier)
<GEOS-TIM> No, it wasn't

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> The real credit goes to one of our product
managers at Geoworks, Loring Knoblach... it was Loring who
conceived the idea, did all the research, wrote the proposal,
convinced the execs and ultimately the board...

<GEOS-TIM> This is GeoPub for the PC folks.....don't get
excited.LOL

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I'm really excited about GeoPublish... it
contains GeoWrite for the PC, which some folks compare favorably
against

<C128.JBEE> you will probably get a very large installed base
because of it :)

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> such page layout programs as PageMaker and
Quark.. and it contains GeoManager, which is my default file
manager and desktop on the PC... so it really shows off the BEST
of PC-GEOS.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> And yes, we do hope that it will help grow our
installed base on the desktop. It's a very difficult market to
compete in, given that it's dominated by a few large companies.

<GEOS-TIM> Isn't there an upgrade if a user sends a registration
fee off GeoPUb for..PC GEOS?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Indeed, registering GeoPublish brings you the
whole Ensemble 2.01 package... If you use GeoPublish, you
can't miss seeing all about Ensemble ;) (Our engineers made sure
of that!..)

<GEOS-TIM> LOL

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I'll explain... there's an application that
runs whenever

<C128.JBEE> well, it certainly is dominated all a few big
companies, though there is room for good programs from smaller
companies, just ask STAC (G>

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> you launch GeoPublish, that's basically
advertising for Ensemble... you can bypass it with a single click
and get real work done with GeoPublish, though. Indeed, JBee!
Stac is aligned with one of our more important
partners, too.. i.e. Novell..
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> So.. there's room for everyone..

<C128.JBEE> I know, that is why I mentioned it ;)

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> But the place right now where Geoworks has the
biggest edge is in the area of being an OS for CCDs and other
fourth wave devices.. Geoworks has a solution, right now, for
enabling a rich GUI on a low-cost processor. No one else has an
OS ready yet... So, we're eager to capitalize on that edge.

<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> CCDs?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> The fourth wave is expected to involved 4 to 10
times the size of the market in the next ten years... as the
desktop PC market has been in the past ten years.. Consumer
Computing Device.... CCD... you see.. you and I are computer
users...

<C128.JBEE> "cubic computer devices" ;D

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> we sit at desks to connnect to online services
in the evenings...

<C128.JBEE> Didnt BSW start out doing an O/S for small airplane
devices, wasnt a market for them, went to Commodore, then to the
PC, and now you are back where Brian originately started ...
small hand held type devices anyone can use?
                                           <[Mink] GW.STEVE> but
imagine this.. imagine when all the databases, communications,
interactive games, message boards, forums of various kinds,
magazines.. all this stuff that you and I take for granted..
imagine my brother, who never has used a computer, is scared or
disinterested... he'll access all this same stuff via his TV..
using a fancy remote, sorta like the Zoomer or the Newton.. he
won't think "computer" he'll think TV.. be we will know better.

<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> fascinating :)

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> We'll all own several, maybe a dozen, devices
that are each an 8088 or 80286 or even 80386 "computer" ...
palmtops, smartphones, GEOS lawnmower, things we haven't even
dreamed of yet.. THAT is the market, JBee, exactly, yes, that
Brian has always envisioned... bringing computing to the
masses... he made a stab at it with the Commodore GEOS OS...
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> (Brian Dougherty, the founder and chairman of
Geoworks)
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> and it's taken a bit of time to convince the
hardware manufacturers that it's time to start making Zoomers and
such...
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Sher. it IS exciting, isn't it!

<GEOS-TIM> Any more questions?

<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> Yes, I'm one of those that just has to
have all the neat new electronic items that come out
<C128.JBEE> Do you still have any C-64/128s at GWs?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Hehe, JBee... interesting that you asked... I
just brought MY 128 back home

<GEOS-TIM> We are going to go out of listen only mode in a few
minutes.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> from the office. Two weeks ago someone wanted
to demo C= GEOS at the office and no one could locate a working
C=...

<C128.JBEE> do you have a modem for it?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Now.. I *know* we have some in the storage, but
no one came and got me to dig them out...

<C128.JBEE> always good to have spares!

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> So I brought mine in.

<C128.JBEE> have a flat 128 or 128D?
** <GEOS-TIM> Room is now in the talk mode.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Yep, I have a minimodem-c... for my C128. and a
one meg REU..and a 20mb CMD hard drive... 128D.. with extra 1541,
and two 1581s... Can't use all of those at once.. hehe On the
other hand, in the past couple years, since I came to
work here at Geoworks, I do admit I haven't fired up the 128 very
often... but then, I'm the kind of person who tries to do things
in a big way.. and so me job keeps my pretty busy.

<C128.JBEE> full blown 128 system :)

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> We're in casual mode, eh?

<GEOS-TIM> Yes
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> Steve, do you keep up with the newest
Commodore GEOS programs, such as Maurice Randall's GeoShell and
etc.?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Hehe.. well, there was a time when mine was a
"power user's" 128...

<C128.JBEE> yes, we are usually the wash and wear types ;)

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> but it's not quite so fancy as what I hear
about folks using now.. One of the last programs I took a look at
on the Commodore was M.Randall's

<C128.JBEE> about as fancy as my system, except Ramlink, which is
the cool device to have
<C128.JBEE> :)

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> GeoShell.. he sent me a copy about the same
time as he released it, I think.

<GEOS-TIM> We were talking about Maurice today in fact.
<GEOS-TIM> Excellent programmer
<[Sherry] C128-QT.
                 PIE> he's amazing!
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Some time in '93... I was still trying to hang
on to the GEOS Arena on that

<W.BLUNDELL>  Mink, can you tell us what happened to the GEOS
Arena on that "other service"?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> "other service" until pretty late in '93...
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> It's really pretty simple, W.Blundell...
Geoworks turned over the whole line to CMD... as you know... and
CMD, though they wanted to see the area continue, they didn't
want to be responsible for it... My time was becoming really thin
as we were releasing the
software development kit, and I was studying like crazy to get up
to speed to support it...

<W.BLUNDELL> I guess I don't understand the politics involved.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> so I didn't have the time or energy to spend on
the area... and AOL didn't want to take it over... and more than
anything, there was misinformation in the text items and other
parts of the forum there... things that were outdated, info and
phone numbers, etc... and that would.. er.. that became even more
inappropriate when CMD took over the line.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> AOL was unable or unwilling to give us any
tools to change those text items... I'd been hounding them for
over a year at that point...
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> So.. it came down to Geoworks being the only
company who could have kept maintaining the area, with all kinds
of misinformation, broken libraries, etc... to support a product
we weren't even selling any more...

<C128.JBEE> WB, no politics, QLINK just does not want to invest
the time and
money needed
<C128.JBEE> to fixed their system so it runs right and to make
any corrections
needed.
<C128.JBEE> They stated that publically during an interview with
their CIN
hardware sysop.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Sad as it made me, I couldn't see any reason to
do it, nor did I have enough

<GEOS-TIM> Yes, their lack of support is what started the
migration to other services.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> hours in the day to continue to try to manage
it.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Right, JBee... it was clear to me that  Qlink
was not going to ever be repaired..

<W.BLUNDELL> It just left an extremely bad taste in my mouth. The
way it was handled.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Well, W.. I did searching and talked to

<GEOS-TIM> It actually open horizons for a lot of Commodore users
who were afraid to use term programs before.  They were forced
into doing it.....(e.g.  Me)

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> lots of people in those final days... the
question was whether to announce an end... or just to end it.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> The consensus was that announcing it would have
just given

<C128.JBEE> Speaking of ends ...
<C128.JBEE> Where does your Apple GEOS products stand?  Still
selling and supporting it or
<C128.JBEE> have you turned that over to a 3rd party too?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> even more space for folks to feel
disenfranchised...

<C128.JBEE> Steve, true^

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Apple GEOS is completely discontinued.

<GEOS-TIM> I heard Apple GEOS was PD now?  Is that true?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Apple GEOS was never really profitable, unlike
C= GEOS which was always profitable... All the last stock of
Apple GEOS was given to some schools and they were given rights
to duplicate it, I believe.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> There was some consideration given to doing the
same with Commodore GEOS.. (hmm.. should I admit this? hehe)

<C128.JBEE> Doesnt sounds like it was released into the PD, but
that is very chartiable :)

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> It's true... but there were two reasons why we
didn't.. C= GEOS was still profitable and CMD wanted to take it
over.. and... copy protection made it impracticle to try to
distribute C=GEOS as PD software... it would have required more
engineering time to change all that.

<GEOS-TIM> Interesting

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> So, it wasn't considered for long... ;)

<C128.JBEE> shucks, I could have done that for you :D

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Now now. JBee... ;)

<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> hehe
<C128.JBEE> ;>

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I think it's a Good Thing(tm) that CMD took
over the line.... they have an abidig interest in the Commodore
and in GEOS.. they give excellent support for the product...

<C128.JBEE> better for the market to have a commercial interest,
things that go PD just
<C128.JBEE> stagnate.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> abidig=abiding..
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Exactly, JBee...

<C128.JBEE> no money = no interest to develop
<GEOS-TIM> I agree
<GEOS-TIM> There are some great programs developing in GEOS
still.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I read the discussion about CD players and CD
disks for the C=  on the boards before I came in here.. very
interesting!

<W.BLUNDELL> Someone advertized a CD interface for the 64 in
1984!

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> It was so fortunate that GeoProgrammer was
released and that it was

<GEOS-TIM> There is even Postscript compatible GEOS art now.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> as stable and robust as it is...

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Cool, Tim! PostScript is gaining ground
everywher... we have a color inkjet printer that uses PS at the
office now, in fact.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> What's up in the arena of magazines or
newsletters...

<GEOS-TIM> Postscript in an inkJet?....I hadn't heard about
that.
<C128.JBEE> HP-1200C^
<GEOS-TIM> There are several players in that dept
<W.BLUNDELL> Well bye ya'll.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I had a few issues of uh.. what was that mag?

** <W.BLUNDELL> has left.
<GEOS-TIM> bye W.B

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> nite, WB!

<GEOS-TIM> TC 64/128, dieHard, Commodore World, and   Gazette on
disk

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Hm.. I can't recall the name now.. naw, this
was a more home brewed rag.. kinda like GeoWorld.. but only a few
issues and then it disappeared...

<GEOS-TIM> LoadStar, Cee64 Alive
<C128.JBEE> pretty much all the last of the major players went
under and the only ones left
<C128.JBEE> are small niche type magazines in the 10k or under
range for subscribers.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> took me for part of my subscription money..
hehe... not that I really care..

<C128.JBEE> Steve, that was Geos International? (or sosmething
like that)

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Yeah, that sounds close, JB..

<C128.JBEE> the one by Grady Brown of geoMetrix fame ^

<GEOS-TIM> Yup

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> That could be it.. yes.. Anyway.. I saw
discussion about Susan Lamb on the boards... and about Peter
Hughes... I have a copy of Peter's guide to GEOS programs, in
fact.. I see Susan on AOL routinely... and I've talked to her on
the phone now and then. I don't know what Peter and Paul are up
to...

<C128.JBEE> last time I talked to Susan (about 3 months ago) she
had gone all MAC

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Susan contributes to PCGEOS ... our GeoBytes
newsletter, etc.. in fact, the last time I talked to Susan it was
to get her okay to use a thumbnail of a newsletter she created in
GeoWrite, in an ad and spec sheet for GeoPublish

<C128.JBEE> so she does PC Ensemble too?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Susan on a Mac? Not that I've heard about!
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> (Hmm.. is she keeping that a secret?)

<C128.JBEE> maybe I misunderstood?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Susan has been using Ensemble and turning out
some nice stuff...

<C128.JBEE> she was a good artiste'

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I sent her a keyboard when hers broke... and
sold her a modem... both last year..

<C128.JBEE> she still use the handle "yuma lamb"?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Yes.. YumaLamb

<C128.JBEE> other person probably got fed up getting all her mail
:D
<GEOS-TIM> LOL
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> hehe
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> This is a little off topic, but...
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> will GeoWorks be compatible with the new
Operating Systems such as Chicago and Os/2?

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Hmm.. as long as it isn't off color..
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> hehe

<C128.JBEE> Remember Dr.Evil?  try typing "dr.evil" and it gets
sent to "dr."on GEnie -
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> giggle
<C128.JBEE> made that mistake a few times myself!

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Ensemble 2.0 can be run under OS/2... no
problem..  the only thing you can't do is mix the long OS/2 file
names with GEOS long filenames..
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Chicago? who knows? Ensemble can be run from
Windows 3.1.... but not from NT, as far as I know...

<C128.JBEE> I bet whatever GWs comes out with on a PDA it will
work with HP's celluar
<C128.JBEE> packet network ;>

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Geoworks is beginning work on a "processor
independent" version of GEOS..

<C128.JBEE> is that double talk for "bigger and fatter" ;D

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> So that's coming in the future...
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I don't think so, JB.. I think it means taking
what we have and simply porting it to work on other processors...
like the Risc..
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> A mammoth project, but one that will enable us
to expand our reach incredibly.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> There's a Japanese version of GEOS now..
double-byte character set.. which will open up the Asian market
for a version of each device that we create in the U.S. and
Europe...
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> We've been busy in Berkeley and Alameda.. no
one is sleeping on their keyboard...
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> er.. well I take that back..

<A.PLATT3> Well, it's been interesting Steve and
everybody...Thanks! 'Nite!
<GEOS-TIM> Night Ap

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> a few people work so hard, sometimes they do
fall asleep.

<GEOS-TIM> Thanks for coming

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Thanks, AP! nite to you!
** <A.PLATT3> has left.

<C128.JBEE> steve, sure it isnt from playing tetris too much? ;D

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> ..on their keyboards in the wee hours of the
morning, in between "makes" of the software.. hehe
                                                  <[Sherry]
C128-QT.PIE> <g>

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Ah.. you caught us, JB!
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> ;)(

<C128.JBEE> my wife finds the solatarie games addicting on both
GEOS (The 640x400
<C128.JBEE> interlace one for the 128) - I had to get another 128
just to do my work ;D
<C128.JBEE> I know C= GEOS was developed on some sort of work
station (SUN?), do you
<C128.JBEE> develop Ensemble on SUN workstations or do you use
high end PCs instead?
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> Steve, I have enjoyed your conference
immensely!
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> It's time for me to get some shut-eye.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> LOL! I know that feeling. I've got three, er,
four computers
set up here at home right now.

<GEOS-TIM> LOL....that solatare is excellent
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> I hope we can do this again sometime :)

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Thanks, Sherry! I had a great time, too!
Night Sherry

<C128.JBEE> yea, I like the blue cards, she likes OPUS.
<GEOS-TIM> Night Sherry
<[Sherry] C128-QT.PIE> G'night all!
<C128.JBEE> night Sherry :)

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I check in on GEnie every few days.. but
admittedly mostly over in the Geoworks forum.

<GEOS-TIM> You should stop in here from time to time
<C128.JBEE> we will find it in our hearts to forgive you ;)

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> I'll add this to my rounds...

<GEOS-TIM> Great

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Hmm.. I wonder just how thin I can get..
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> hehe.. I mean as in "spread thin"...

<GEOS-TIM> Just eat a lot of bytes

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Actually, I'm fatter than I've ever been...

<GEOS-TIM> I know the feeling.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> The thinner I'm spread, the fatter I get? hehe
:D
<GEOS-TIM> :D
<C128.JBEE> not me - breaking that habit - ride my bike, walk the
dog, or lift weights
<C128.JBEE> every morning BEFORE work.

<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Well, I was just gonna say the same thing..
<GEOS-TIM> Wow
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Good for you, JB... I should emulate you..
<C128.JBEE> most mornings I do 2 of the 3
<GEOS-TIM> I want to thank you for coming in.  It was very
informative.
<C128.JBEE> thank you for dropping by :)
<GEOS-TIM> Ya, maybe we can do it again.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> We'll have to do it again, indeed!
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> nite nite, then..
<GEOS-TIM> We should have the transcripts in a couple of days, if
not sooner all edited Looking nice, etc.
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Cool.. I'll come get a copy to hang on the
wall. ;)
<GEOS-TIM> Okay...:D
<[Mink] GW.STEVE> Print it out from GEOS, of course.. LOL!
<C128.JBEE> lol
<GEOS-TIM> yup
** <[Mink] GW.STEVE> has left.


***Conference is over***
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