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From:    [e-mail] (George Taylor)
Subject: Re: Projections Re: 3d graphics
Date:    7 Jul 1994 19:39:23 GMT

Willem-Jan Monsuwe writes
> And the beauty of this is: You can put d/(z-z0) in a table indexed by z,
> so you can do x1 = x*table(z) and y1 = y*table(z)
> thus just doing two MULs and two lookups per point.
Great idea!  Except this limits your ability to zoom the object.. however,
you could switch to 'zoom' mode when you want, where it will skip the
table and use the real calculation, or you can have a lot of tables for
different zoom factors, which may be practical because you have so few z.
ie
ldy d
lda z:clc:adc base
sta adr+1
lda (adr),y
this gives d/z
d=0-255, z=1 to some small number
base is the start of the tables-256 (to account for z starting at 1).
-------------
If you look at the difference between a cube rotated 89 degrees around
the x and y axis and a cube rotated 90 degrees thusly, you'll see
that the movement is in a different direction, thus creating a nicer
effect.
-------------
Finally, I understand what you mean (um I think..).
In previous debates, the order of applying rotations was discussed.  It
was pointed out several times that the order didn't matter, except when
the object was parallel to an axis.
This would cause the rotation to spin on the axis causing no effect.
In the example you gave, two rotations of 90 would do nothing. But this is
correct still.  But if there is a spin of 90 and 45, you must switch the
order of rotations so always a non 90 degree multiple is done first.
I still don't understand your point.  Rotating both ways by increasing
angles will give a diagonal spin. This would be like a spinning top
tilting towards you.  even tho the two spins are rotating on their axis
and have no effect, it just happens that the correct result is still
obtained.Also I imagine a 4 sided pyramid sitting.  It tilts toward you
while spinning clockwise.  the result is the tip of the cone pointing
towards you, and the front side is now on the left side.
------------
calculations
Total amount of cycles/frame:                           = 49372
---------------
ya.. that's true.. my own calculations now give 55000 cycles.
so that is at least 3 frames :(
I did forget about clearing (also you need to clear the screen and eor
buffer).
But at least for the eor buffer, I can save time by storing a list of
points changed, then erase them later.  This is definitely faster than
erasing every byte.
-------------------
Okay.. Here it is: my signed multiply.
I am always open to suggestions..
--------------
hmm... well, to tell the truth I think I can beat this :)
The problem is in your analysis of the table indexes.
I think you can avoid the eor #$80 and also one clc . Also you don't need
a special case of a<b.  The index wraps around and is just like -(a-b)!
I can't find my code now, but.I think it's:
lda a:ldy b
sta m3+1:sta m4+1
eor #$ff:sta m1+1
sta m2+1
m3 lda tabl,y:sec:m1 sbc tabl,y:sta reslo
m4 lda tabh,y:m2 sbc tabh,y:sta reshi
this is 48 cycles.
for your code you could do:
ldy b:lax a:eor b:bpl jump1
...
jump1 stx m3+1:stx m4+1:txa:eor #$ff
sta m1+1:sta m2+1...
this is only 8 more cycles.
so 56 for positive numbers..
yours is 57 :)
I saved one cycle with undocumented opcode lax... not as good as I
thought.
you could also save 1 cycle with
lax factor1:eor factor2:bpl jump1


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Willem-Jan Monsuwe)
Subject: Re: Projections Re: 3d graphics
Date:    7 Jul 1994 13:33:56 GMT

) <A lot of stuff about 3D-projection deleted..>
)The new projection equations are then
)
)         x1 = d*x/(z-z0)     y1 = d*y/(z-z0)
)
)Where z0 is a translation amount that at the very least makes sure that
)z-z0 < 0 (or, if you are keeping your z-axis turned around, translate by
)an amount z=z+z0).

And the beauty of this is: You can put d/(z-z0) in a table indexed by z,
so you can do x1 = x*table(z) and y1 = y*table(z)
thus just doing two MULs and two lookups per point.

)That's the funny part; I think it's a pretty amazing fluke that it works
)out OK.  I also bet that a non-cube object like a pyramid won't look
)right using the earlier equations.

I don't think that's funny. There are much things done not by doing the
right thing, but by trying out funny stuff and fiddling until it
works. My first 3D looked pretty good and was x1 = x*(c-z)
--
Willy/Silicon Ltd.


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Stephen Judd)
Subject: Re: Projections Re: 3d graphics
Date:    8 Jul 1994 01:13:16 GMT

In article <2vh084$[e-mail]>,
Willem-Jan Monsuwe <[e-mail]> wrote:
>) <A lot of stuff about 3D-projection deleted..>
>)The new projection equations are then
>)
>)        x1 = d*x/(z-z0)     y1 = d*y/(z-z0)
>)
>)Where z0 is a translation amount that at the very least makes sure that
>)z-z0 < 0 (or, if you are keeping your z-axis turned around, translate by
>)an amount z=z+z0).
>
>And the beauty of this is: You can put d/(z-z0) in a table indexed by z,
>so you can do x1 = x*table(z) and y1 = y*table(z)
>thus just doing two MULs and two lookups per point.

My thoughts exactly!  You can always keep z0 fixed and just vary d.

>
>)That's the funny part; I think it's a pretty amazing fluke that it works
>)out OK.  I also bet that a non-cube object like a pyramid won't look
>)right using the earlier equations.
>
>I don't think that's funny. There are much things done not by doing the

Well, it wasn't a "Ha Ha" kind of funny. :)

>Willy/Silicon Ltd.

     evetS-


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Nhat-Viet Phi)
Subject: Re: Raid over Moscow HELP!
Date:    Wed, 6 Jul 1994 00:59:37 GMT

ROLOC ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In article <2v0dbd$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Darrin
Smith) writes...
: >Just the other day I was playing raid over moscow for the first time in
: >about five years. I Can't remember how to open the hanger door!! Please
: >help if you can

: It's been a while for me too, but I do believe it is F-7 to open the doors...I
: remember it took me a long time to figure that one out =)

Hmph!! Ya gotta wonder how many of these guys have ever come within fifty
feet of an original Raid Over Moscow disk or manual... And don't give me
any bull that new packages aren't available anymore! There ARE sources
(of which I am a frequent customer).

Nhat-Viet Phi
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
InterNet mail: [e-mail]


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Duane P Mantick)
Subject: Re: Raid over Moscow HELP!
Date:    Wed, 6 Jul 1994 21:06:52 GMT

[e-mail] (Nhat-Viet Phi) writes:

>Hmph!! Ya gotta wonder how many of these guys have ever come within fifty
>feet of an original Raid Over Moscow disk or manual... And don't give me
>any bull that new packages aren't available anymore! There ARE sources
>(of which I am a frequent customer).

>Nhat-Viet Phi
>Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>InterNet mail: [e-mail]

     Well, then - would you be willing to point out those sources, OR,
to makes a copy of the manual for someone who doesn't HAVE one?

Duane
[e-mail]


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (George Taylor)
Subject: Re: Random fractals
Date:    8 Jul 1994 21:40:20 GMT

Jeff Epler writes
> Actually, for the limit of Mandelbrot depravity: I planned, but never
> got this quite working.  Using a Commodore 64 as well as the processor
> in its disk drive, compute the mandelbrot set in about half the time
> it would take alone.
Neat, I've always wanted to do this too.
I first did a 64 mandelbrot 3 years ago in 16 bit precision.  It took 6
minutes to plot in 320x200 with 50 iterations.
for a real benchmark, I was doing 1100 iterations per second.
I thought I was doing something amazing by using a full 128K lookup table
in a ram expansion to do 8 bit multiplies.  The x and y simply form a 16
bit address and you read out the result ;)
It turns out that my newest multiply is even faster than programming the
ram expander registers! And it uses less tables.
I know someone who can do 5800 iterations per second (only 176 cycles per
iteration!!) but only to 13 bits precision.  The limitation is only in
memory however, and possibly full 16 bits could be done with ram expansion
or a 128. (maybe even a snapshot cartridge.. with 32k extra ram..).
meanwhile, an amiga can do the same thing in about 4 seconds :)
It runs at about 100,000 iterations per second.
I also started work on the parrallel drive routines.
The maximum serial bus transfer routine can transfer 32k/sec.  This takes
31 cycles I think   the 64 can do 1/5 of the iteration in that time.The
drive must use slow routines because it has little ram.
maybe 500 iterations/s.
The 64 must do several iterations while waiting for one from the drive.
In fact the most efficient method is for the drive to directly calculate
one screen byte of the picture, instead of sending one iteration count.
Thus the speed increase is very little!
if the 64 does 5800/sec, and the drive 500/sec, then the drive is about 12
times slower. So the computer would do about 90 iterations before the
drive sends a byte.
I think the best way to program it is at a finer grain.
If there are some routines which work on a bit at a time, then they can
both run in parrallel, and the two bits at a time is fast, because you
just need to ora port to combine them.
If the bits are independent in data flow ( can be calculated in any
order).
I don't know.. it's a cool idea but limited use, because always a routine
can be sped up with tables, and then the 64 always beats the drive.
Unless the drive were 1571 or 1581, in which case it can run at 2mhz.


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Jeff Epler)
Subject: Re: Random fractals
Date:    8 Jul 1994 06:48:04 GMT

[e-mail] (Kimberley Burchett) writes:

>[e-mail] wrote:

>: Done that. Been there.

>: I used to do B&W mandelbrots and Julia sets on my trusty old Z-100 5MHz 8088.

>  Ah, but I know of no one else but me who got so bored in math class
>they programmed the M-set on a TI-81!  Doesn't take too long because it
>only has two colors and about 80x80 detail... :)

I did that!

And then, about a year later, a friend made me program it on his TI 85
which had builtin support for complex numbers, and a larger screen.
He complained to me that after the render is batteries were completely
drained.

The great thing was that you could use the various zoom functions
built into the calculator and then just run the mandel program again.

Actually, for the limit of Mandelbrot depravity: I planned, but never
got this quite working.  Using a Commodore 64 as well as the processor
in its disk drive, compute the mandelbrot set in about half the time
it would take alone.

One day in a summer school psychology class I coded 24-bit fixed point
multiplication for the 6502 procesor (which used only adds and shifts)
in a way that was doubtlessly very naive, and then went home and got
to work.  I didn't understand the disk drive well enough to make my
dream come true, though.

But gee, the Commodore 64 was the first multiprocessor system I ever
used. :)

>--
>                        Kimberley  ([e-mail])

Jeff
--
____  "I wonder if you think about me once upon a time
\BI/   in your wildest dreams" -- Moody Blues    V-- Pink Floyd
 \/   "There's a change that, even with regret, cannot be undone"
IRC: Synger    Running Linux 1.1 -- Free Unix for 386+ machines


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Nhat-Viet Phi)
Subject: SID Editor drums???
Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 22:23:19 GMT

Um, folks? I have read some of the high-level ML talk regarding advanced
music programming on C=64... Sure, it makes my eyes water, but I have
never had the time to really dig into machine language, nor to explore
the finer points of synthesized music a la SID chip...

I do happen to have a legal, original SID Editor package and a SID
Symphony cartridge. Can anyone tell me how to get some really decent
drums in SID compositions? I've heard some OK examples, but nothing like
the awesome drums you hear in some European demos (coded from scratch).
Help!

Nhat-Viet Phi
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
InterNet mail: [e-mail]


------------------------------
From:    [e-mail] (Stephen Judd)
Subject: Re: Sigh... My line drawing routine again
Date:    6 Jul 1994 22:02:10 GMT

In article <2vek11$[e-mail]>,
Willem-Jan Monsuwe <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>On the plus side :)... in fixing it I have removed some instructions out
>>of the main loop, giving a worst-case time of 16 cycles per point.

By the way -- I eliminated another instruction, so it's down to 14 cycles
worst-case :)

>PLUS the time to actually plot a pixel. That's the problem here.

Yup!  But I think the routine is clearer this way.

>If you just update some pointers and stuff you can do a faster
>line-routine. You need to install some stuff once per line
>and then you just need some twenty-odd cycles per pixel INCLUDING plot.

I have been thinking about this ever since I wrote the routine.  I
think that with a bit of a rewrite and some big tables I could maybe
get it down to less than thirty cycles per point; we'll see.

Without using tables, at the moment my plot routine alone takes 29 cycles
per increase in x, and another 22 per increase in y.

I am always open to suggestions... :)

>Just my 2 nybbles,  Willy/Silicon Ltd.

     evetS-


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Willem-Jan Monsuwe)
Subject: Re: Sigh... My line drawing routine again
Date:    6 Jul 1994 15:53:05 GMT

>On the plus side :)... in fixing it I have removed some instructions out
>of the main loop, giving a worst-case time of 16 cycles per point.
PLUS the time to actually plot a pixel. That's the problem here.
If you just update some pointers and stuff you can do a faster
line-routine. You need to install some stuff once per line
and then you just need some twenty-odd cycles per pixel INCLUDING plot.

Just my 2 nybbles,  Willy/Silicon Ltd.


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Willem-Jan Monsuwe)
Subject: Signed Multiply
Date:    7 Jul 1994 14:29:22 GMT

Okay.. Here it is: my signed multiply.
I managed to dig it up and get it here..
(excuse the use of capitals, but that's because of file formats, etc..)
By the way: before using, you have to call INSQUARE to initialize
the table with squares..
Happy multiplying!

Here goes:

MULTIPLY
               LDA FACTOR1
         EOR FACTOR2
         BPL JUMP1
         LDA FACTOR1
         CLC
         ADC FACTOR2
         EOR #$80
         TAX
         LDA FACTOR1
         SEC
         SBC FACTOR2
         TAY
         BCC JUMP2
         LDA SQUARELO+$80,X
         SEC
         SBC SQUARELO,Y
         STA RESULT
         LDA SQUAREHI+$80,X
         SBC SQUAREHI,Y
         STA RESULT+1
         RTS
JUMP2    LDA SQUARELO+$80,X
         SEC
         SBC SQUARELO+$0100,Y
         STA RESULT
         LDA SQUAREHI+$80,X
         SBC SQUAREHI+$0100,Y
         STA RESULT+1
         RTS
JUMP1    LDA FACTOR1
         SEC
         SBC FACTOR2
         EOR #$80
         TAY
         LDA FACTOR1
         CLC
         ADC FACTOR2
         TAX
         BCC JUMP3
         LDA SQUARELO,X
         SEC
         SBC SQUARELO+$80,Y
         STA RESULT
         LDA SQUAREHI,X
         SBC SQUAREHI+$80,Y
         STA RESULT+1
         RTS
JUMP3    LDA SQUARELO+$0100,X
         SEC
         SBC SQUARELO+$80,Y
         STA RESULT
         LDA SQUAREHI+$0100,X
         SBC SQUAREHI+$80,Y
         STA RESULT+1
         RTS

;THIS ROUTINE INITS THE TABLE FOR
;(X^2)/4

SQUARELO     = $0400
SQUAREHI     = $0600

INSQUARE
         LDX #$01
         STX FACTOR1
         LDA #$00
         STA FACTOR2
         STA SQUARELO+$0100
         STA SQUAREHI+$0100
         STA RESULT
         STA RESULT+1
INSQTLP
         LDA RESULT
         STA SQUARELO+$0100,X
         LDA RESULT+1
         STA SQUAREHI+$0100,X
         LDA FACTOR1
         CLC
         ADC RESULT
         STA RESULT
         LDA FACTOR2
         ADC RESULT+1
         STA RESULT+1
         INX
         LDA RESULT
         STA SQUARELO+$0100,X
         LDA RESULT+1
         STA SQUAREHI+$0100,X
         LDA FACTOR1
         CLC
         ADC RESULT
         STA RESULT
         LDA FACTOR2
         ADC RESULT+1
         STA RESULT+1
         LDA FACTOR1
         CLC
         ADC #1
         STA FACTOR1
         LDA FACTOR2
         ADC #0
         STA FACTOR2
         INX
         CPX #$FF
         BNE INSQTLP

         LDX #$FF
         LDY #$01
INSQMLP
         LDA SQUARELO+$0100,X
         STA SQUARELO,Y
         LDA SQUAREHI+$0100,X
         STA SQUAREHI,Y
         INY
         DEX
         BNE INSQMLP
         RTS

I am always open to suggestions..
--
Willy/Silicon Ltd.


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Fred Cabor)
Subject: software wanted
Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 02:00:13 GMT


I looking for software ....bbs software,modem wars,computereyes,games,art,music,
if you have some of these e-mail me with price [e-mail]


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Darvell Hunt)
Subject: Re: Sold C64 with paddles -- followup
Date:    6 Jul 1994 21:12:16 GMT


I find it very sad to see that so many users of my mentor
computer can be so sadistic and downright rude.

No wonder Commodore died.

Darvell "die-hard-commodore-fan" Hunt


------------------------------
From:    [e-mail] (Richard Bradley)
Subject: Re: Sold C64 with paddles -- followup
Date:    7 Jul 1994 07:15:11 GMT

Darvell Hunt ([e-mail]) wrote:

: I find it very sad to see that so many users of my mentor
: computer can be so sadistic and downright rude.

: No wonder Commodore died.

: Darvell "die-hard-commodore-fan" Hunt


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (george page)
Subject: Re: Sold C64 with paddles -- followup
Date:    7 Jul 1994 15:55:15 -0600

In article <2vf6ng$[e-mail]>,
Darvell Hunt <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>I find it very sad to see that so many users of my mentor
>computer can be so sadistic and downright rude.
>
>No wonder Commodore died.
>
>Darvell "die-hard-commodore-fan" Hunt
Heck, we're mild compared to some of the other platforms!

--
George Page  Commodore Enthusiast ("Collectors" get hit with higher prices)
Aurora (Denver) Colorado USA. [e-mail] or [e-mail]
 or [e-mail] or George Page on FIDONet (1:104/518)


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Pontus Berg)
Subject: Re: Super Snapshot V5?
Date:    Wed,  6 Jul 94 22:39:34 +0200

In a message of 03 Jul 94 Daryl King wrote to All:

 DK> One big reason why I use the SS V5 cart is the monitor, and the Basic
 DK> Exten- sion and screen capture. The Basic Extension comes in very handy
 DK> as I do a bit of Programming in Basic and find it very usefull in not
 DK> having to look for an Extension on a disk somewhere in my vast library
 DK> of un-labled 5.25s.

Have you compared it to f.ex. the monitor in Action Replay? I used an old
version of SuperSnapshot for a few days, and wans't at all impressed!

From: Pontus Berg                          AKA:Bacchus of FairLight 64
      SveavEgen 88,5tr
      113 59 Stockholm                     [e-mail]
      SWEDEN                               Fido: 2:201/411.71


... FairLight - A group in the right circuits
--- Spot 1.2d #676


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Genesis*Project)
Subject: Re: The Sceners List
Date:    Thu, 7 Jul 1994 02:45:02 GMT

Tony Clark ([e-mail]) wrote:

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: [e-mail]               -    Steve
: --- Spirit
: [e-mail]               -    Unifier

:
*******************************************************************************
: * States Side users:-       USA, Canada                                   *
:
*******************************************************************************

: --- Hackers With Attitudes
: [e-mail]               -       The Shadow

: --- Demonix
: [e-mail]                   -    Aggressor

: --- Sinister
: [e-mail]            -    Roy Batty
: [e-mail]           -    Skyclad
: [e-mail]               -    IceBreaker
: [e-mail]               -    Carcass
: [e-mail]               -    Halfcat

: --- Mystique (Mystique is dead now)
: [e-mail]            -    J-Shaman

: --- Brain Damage Studio
: [e-mail]               -    IceBreaker

: --- Electron
: [e-mail]               -    Dokken
: [e-mail]           -    Gambler

: --- Style
: [e-mail]               -       Massive Onslaught
: [e-mail]           -    The Wiz
: [e-mail]               -       Elwix
: [e-mail]              -    Firefoot
: # [e-mail]            -    Shadowmaster (Account removed)
: [e-mail]        -    Starlost
: [e-mail]               -    Destiny

: --- Expose (Expose is dead now)
: [e-mail]           -    The Wiz

: --- Renegade Programming Group
: [e-mail]        -    Fubar
: [e-mail]         -    Wraith
: [e-mail]         -    Cyberad
: [e-mail]         -    Defender
: [e-mail]                  -    Dutchman
: [e-mail]    -    Cybermosh

: --- Empire
: [e-mail]        -    Intruder
: --- The Shaolin Monastery (ex)
: [e-mail]        -       Rad Man

: --- Eclipse
: [e-mail]               -    Blackice

: --- ATTacker
: [e-mail]            -    Sir CyRo

: --- Warped Minds Inc
: [e-mail]            -    Warped

: --- Demonix and Genesis Projects
: [e-mail]             -    Alchemist

: --- Fucked Beyond Repair (ex)
: [e-mail]        -    Death-Demon

: --- Public Enemy (ex)
: [e-mail]                    -    Codebreaker

: --- POD (ex)
: [e-mail]              -    Rundy

: --- Scibax
: [e-mail]          -    Livefire

: --- Longshot + Phukin Stoned Importerz
: [e-mail]        -    The Stablizer

: --- Carcass
: [e-mail]                -    Natas

: --- From the Ashes
: [e-mail]            -    The Diskmaster
: [e-mail]        -    Firestalker

: --- Active but groupless
: [e-mail]        -    Demonger

:
*******************************************************************************
: * Australian users:-        Australia                                     *
:
*******************************************************************************

: --- The Second Ring
: [e-mail]       -       Stomper
: [e-mail]          -    Giorgio Armani
: [e-mail]        -    Neptune
: [e-mail]     -    Logic

: --- The Force
: [e-mail]           -    Z
:
*******************************************************************************
: * Ex C-64 user:-        Australia, Sweden, Spain, Finland, Denmark, USA *
: *                             Netherlands
*
: *
*
: * These people are Ex C-64 users, mail them with care dudez. Chief
*
:
*******************************************************************************

: --- Dominators
: [e-mail]              -       Olorin

: --- Censor Design
: [e-mail]             -       Euzkera
: [e-mail]               -    Whitelion

: --- Blasters + TRC
: [e-mail]                -       BlackHole

: --- The Ruling Company
: [e-mail]        -    Case

: --- Contex
: [e-mail]         -    Scorpion

: --- Extasy
: [e-mail]           -    TMB

: --- 2nd Dimension
: [e-mail]             -    Wolfgang

: --- The Ancient Temple
: [e-mail]              -    Patch

: --- Style
: [e-mail]           -    Wrong Way

:
*******************************************************************************
: * Useful C-64 users:-       Finland, England, USA, Australia, Denmark     *
:
*******************************************************************************

: --- Knows loads about the hardware on the C-64
: [e-mail]          -       Marko Makela

: --- Wrote game code, things like the 3D scrolling routines in Super HangOn
: [e-mail]                   -       Sean Capes

: --- Runs a cool FTP site
: [e-mail]         -       R.Knop
: --- Writes a magazine on the C-64/C128 for the net about C-64 hacking etc
: [e-mail]       -       Craig Taylor

: --- Author of the game Cucky Egg
: [e-mail]            -    Cliff

: --- Game coder and helps people with questions
: [e-mail]              -    John Kaiser

: --- Holiday Inn Cambodia BBS
: [e-mail]                    -    POL POT

: --- Editor of Cee-64 Alive
: [e-mail]             -    Gaelyne Moranec

: --- Cool Dudez
: [e-mail]           -    Christopher Jam
: [e-mail]             -    LKP
: [e-mail]   -       Bill

: --- Threshold Productions
: [e-mail]           -    Jonathan Mines (CEO)
: [e-mail]               -    Robert Gonzalez (Developer)
: [e-mail]               -    Zak Arntson(Story Writer/Artist)
: [e-mail]               -    Petar Strinic(Artist/Designer)
: [e-mail]         -    Av Utukuri
: [e-mail]               -    Andrew Krepela
: [e-mail]            -    Terry Flynn
: [e-mail]               -    Dokken
: [e-mail]           -    Gambler

: --- CMD email address (hardware company)
: [e-mail]               -    CMD

: --- Editor of Compute's Gazette (NTSC 64 mag)
: [e-mail]           -    Tom Netsel

: --- Random Magazine by Saber Enterprises
: [e-mail]        -    Saber Enterprises

: --- Coder of NovaTerm
: [e-mail]               -    Nick Rossi

:
*******************************************************************************

: If you have any problems or need information on other internet services
: please me mail at:-    [e-mail]


: All the best dudez.......   Chief/Padua

: --
: Chief/Padua                             [phone]
:                               --------------------
:                         My opinions are not my employers


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (John Kaiser)
Subject: Re: TurboAssembler 5 documentation?
Date:    Thu, 7 Jul 1994 00:42:37 GMT

Hey, Ivan...

Could you pop those docs into my Email-box also? I'm pretty fluent in
Turbo V5 (and up?) but you never know, there may be somethings I've not
learned by messing around with it...



------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Darren Fuerst)
Subject: Re: Wanted: C Compiler
Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 03:07:34 GMT

In article <2vdc7l$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Stephen Judd)
writes:
>In article <2vcgt1$[e-mail]>, Ivan <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>Darren Fuerst ([e-mail]) wrote:
[* snip *]
>>The only assembler I know of that has macro facility is turbo macro.  As
>>for large files, I'd have to say that you're shit out of luck.  One can
>>only do so much on a 64k machine - the assembler itself takes a good chunk
>>of memory.  If you want to write large files, you pretty much need an REU
>>or two 64's and a cable.  Or a 6502 assembler for another computer (& a
>>cross-assembling setup)...

Well, I have an old assembler by Micol that has a macro facility.  Only
problem is that I don't like the editor and most of the pseudo-ops are
strange (re. nonstandard).  With respect to size, any decent assembler that
can read the source from disk, and write the object to disk, should be able
to assemble large programs (albeit slowly).  PAL, the other assembler that I
have, and the one I use most often, fails on this score.  Something that
supports linking object modules would probably be somewhat faster (see below).

>Merlin has an excellent macro facility and also has a linker; I can't find
>my Merlin 64 manual, but the Merlin 128 linker (which is probably the same
>as the Merlin 64 linker) can assemble some 40 kbytes at a time.

I remember Merlin from the "good old days" -- never had a copy, but I had
friends who liked it (BTW, I've always believed in BUYING my development
tools).  Another kind soul sent mail (sorry, I've forgotten your name
already -- early Alzheimer's?) informing me that SSI has a Power Assembler/
Power C package on for $9.95.  Even though I'm not familiar with them, the
price was right (I'm willing to gamble $15 or whatever it works out to with
shipping) so I went ahead and ordered them.

Can't wait to get the package.  My first new C64 software in, what, 8+ years.
Should be fun to look through the SSI catalogue too (I know, get a life eh?).

Darren



------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Nhat-Viet Phi)
Subject: Re: Wanted: M.U.L.E.
Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 15:48:42 GMT

Jim Lawson ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Hey everyone -

: In my travels I have come across a C 128 - what a lovely thing!

YUP-YUP-YUP! I agree, because I use two!

: Years ago I remember playing a game called M.U.L.E. which I'm sure you've
: all heard of.  I would love to get my hands on a copy, but (of course)
: the local stores don't carry it, and Electronic Arts doesn't carry it
: any more (even though they published it.)

Hey! If you cannot find any software houses selling NEW copies of
M.U.L.E. by Electronic Arts, and you would like stay on the LEGAL path,
try giving Centsible Software a call. These people deal in used software
for C=64, C=128, IBM and Amiga, and often have rare titles of which even
cracked pirate copies don't exist. I have done business with them several
times and found the main honcho a decent, honorable businessman.

To reduce postage costs and storage space, he does not sell his software
with the original boxes. Instead, the programs are sent with the original
disks, manuals and extra bits sealed in a Ziploc-type bag.

Centsible Software
P.O. Box 930
St. Joseph, MI  49085
[phone]

Give Grant Sonneman a call, and tell him [e-mail] sent you.
(BTW, I will be supplying the InterNet/Delphi E-Mail address shortly)


Nhat-Viet Phi
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
InterNet Mail: [e-mail]


P.S. I just ordered Spelunker, Triango, Vegas Gambler, Millionaire, and
     a few others... Traded in a 256K REU for $35 credit towards the
     purchase!


------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Nhat-Viet Phi)
Subject: Re: Wanted: M.U.L.E.
Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 15:58:29 GMT

Hello! This is a followup to my response regarding M.U.L.E. by Electronic
Arts (Arse?? waaahahahahaa) and where to get it nowadays. I recommended
that the person looking for it check out Centsible Software in St.
Joseph, Michigan, and supplied the Snail-Mail address and phone number.
I am now supplying the InterNet Mail address of said business:

                 [e-mail]

If you use the InterNet route, you can ask for an extended price list by
E-Mail! This cuts down significantly on postage and paper costs. (In
fact, spread the word around!! All Commodore-related businesses should
try to establish an InterNet mail address for the same reasons.)


Nhat-Viet Phi
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
InterNet mail: [e-mail]


------------------------------

From:    Randy Mcwilson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Wanted: M.U.L.E.
Date:    Thu, 7 Jul 94 01:38:48 -0500

Dear Jim:
I am responding to your request for M.U.L.E.
(sorry--term prog glitched!)
Drop me an Email line.....

Randy McWilson......JOHN 3:16


------------------------------

From:    David Belter <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Wanted: M.U.L.E.
Date:    Thu, 7 Jul 94 03:11:59 -0500

Jim Lawson <[e-mail]> writes:

>In my travels I have come across a C 128 - what a lovely thing!  Anyway,
>years ago I remember playing a game called M.U.L.E. which I'm sure you've
>all heard of.  I would love to get my hands on a copy, but (of course)
>the local stores don't carry it, and Electronic Arts doesn't carry it
>any more (even though they published it.)


It my favorite game!  The only problem is it WON'T run on my 128!! :(  I do
know I have OLD Roms so I would assume thats the problem since some other stuff
won't run either
BTW My high score is 56353 for a single player game!


------------------------------

End of CBM Digest Volume 02 #069
***
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