8bitfiles.net/archives/archives.tar/archives/genie-commodore-file-library/CompSysCBM/072196A.TXT/text0000.txt

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> >They all have the same music, a lyric-less tune called "Popcorn".  It was
> >a big favoutite of early synthesiser bands back in the 70's.
>
> >I don't know who actually composed it, but I am sure it would have been
> >covered a great deal, so you should be able to find it - just look out for
> >early synth. bands
>
> I have a tape that has Popcorn on it. It mentions the composer "Kingsley"
> but I'd like to have more info on him (her?) since the name is all I know.

Time for me to jump in here. I have two albums (bought in the 60's)
recorded by Jean Jacques Perry and Gersheon Kingsley. One is called
"The In Sound from Way Out" and the other is "Kaleidoscopic
Vibrations". They featured electronically synthesized music popular at
the time (and for me, always). I think "Popcorn" was released only as
a single (that's how I've got it... a '45), and there is an even older
one called "Percolator". Remember the Maxwell House Coffee song? Good
to the last note ;)
I've just given my age away.

Ray Carlsen
Anyone who can still remember the '60's obviously didn't participate.

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From: Philip Kaulfuss <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.games,comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: ESCOM Germany Bankrupt
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.games,comp.sys.cbm
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 96 20:12:13 GMT
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Jonas Thorell ([e-mail]) wrote:

: Yes, I actually used to own a calculator with the Commodore name on it.
: Too bad I haven't got it left, it would be a nice memory...

I have an old Commodore calculator here. =) The instruction booklet is still
around somewhere too.

--

 ,-----.,-.    ,-.,-.,-.  ,-. ,---------------------------------------------.
 | ,-. || |    `-'| || |,' ,' |Philip Kaulfuss                              |
 | `-' || `---.,-.| || ' ,'   |[e-mail]                      |
 | ,---'| ,-. || || || . `.   |PhilK in UnderNet #AmigaCafe                 |
 | |    | | | || || || |`. `. |Graphics artist for the game 'Urban Massacre'|
 `-'    `-' `-'`-'`-'`-'  `-' `---------------------------------------------'
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From: Raymond Carlsen <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: Problem with 1541 DD --- help!
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 22:58:31 -0700
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <mspinks.837837047@giaeb>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
To: Matthew Spinks <[e-mail]>
In-Reply-To: <mspinks.837837047@giaeb>

> An old-style 1541 disk drive of mine has developed a problem.  When
> I turn it on, all that happens is the green power light lights up,
> and the red error light flashes periodically, whilst the motor runs
> continuously.  I can't read the error channel, get a directory
> listing, or perform any I/O commands.  Can anyone tell me what's
> likely to be wrong with it, and whether the problem can be easily
> fixed?

Matthew,
     There are a few things that will produce those symptoms. First in
order of likelihood is the DOS ROM chip UB4 (901229-03 or -05). Next
is the 6522 UC2. There are two of those chips... try swapping them and
see if symptoms change. One of the gates: UC7 (74LS00), and I've also
heard that UA1 (74LS14) can do that. The flashing red LED means that
the the on-board computer in the drive could not finish its start-up
sequence.

Ray Carlsen
CARLSEN ELECTRONICS... A leader in trailing-edge technology.


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From: "A. Irmer" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: COMMODORE MPS-801 DOT MATRIX PRINTER
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 08:11:48 +0200
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Hi,
I have one Commodore MPS-801 DOT MATRIX PRINTER to give away.
Once again I dont want to pay for shipping - maybe there is someone in
Europe interested in it?
Dont hesitate to contact me, otherwise it will end in a litterbox!
Andreas Irmer, Germany
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From: [e-mail] (WShrake)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Vic-20 info posted here.
Date: 21 Jul 1996 03:35:13 -0400
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Watch this space soon for some (hopefully) interesting Vic-20
information....

(Sorry for doing things this way, but its the only way my lame AOL
software cooperates, for longish posts....)

Ward Shrake
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: IVL Pitchrider 64
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 05:25:51 GMT
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Looking for info on this cartridge.  Thanks for any help.
-- Victory in Apathy --

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
Ang$t
[e-mail]
http://www.hpdc.com/~kurtz_25

"... And go about like a Robin Goodfellow, peeping in at every
cottage window, inspiring lunatics, and tainting meats, and
making darkness visible..."        -- H.D. Thoreau
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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Eyeth
From: [e-mail] (Todd Elliott)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: CKIT 94 - Dongle!
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:15:27
Organization: GNN
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <4soqc8$[e-mail]>
References: <4sgaue$[e-mail]> <4sgmc1$[e-mail].
com> <[e-mail]>
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I forgot who originally posted this, but there was a posting that stated a
1351 mouse plugged in port 1 will bypass the security check in Ckit 94. Yes,
the mouse will fool the software and the Ckit 94 will boot normally with
the "security key ok" line.

Before all of you guys rush off and bug someone to copy it for your own use,
the Ckit 94 will not work on subsequent actions when accessing its utilities.
Within each utility, the Ckit 94 software will check for the dongle at some
unspecified intervals during compression, copying and storing files. At those
points, the 1351 mouse will not just cut it, and Ckit 94 hangs.

IMHO, a dongle is not necessary. If Madman Software truly had a geniune fear
of piracy, they could have burned it onto a ROM cartridge similar to Action
Replay, but with better file management utilities. Look at Novaterm 9.6- It
is in a cartridge format, and while critizied, it protects Nick Rossi's
interest in his software and any potential revenues it may garner. Just ask
Matt Desmond and ask how much did he get in monies for Desterm v2.0? A
pittance, I'm willing to bet.

Todd
{.sig starts here!}
Todd Elliott
C128D Nirvana Enthusiast!
[e-mail]
University of Baltimore School of Law

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From: "Michael Bendure" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.marketplace,comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: WTB: 1084 Monitor Flyback Transformer
Date: 18 Jul 1996 05:33:03 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <01bb746a$7c97d020$[e-mail]>
References: <4rd0q4$[e-mail]> <Pine.PCW.3.93.960705170930.
[e-mail]> <4s9di6$[e-mail]>
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M. K. Yoshida <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<4s9di6$[e-mail]>...
>
> We have been repairing these monitors for 10 years. Can I be of service
> and offer you the part?
> --

   I have a fellow Sysop looking for a 40/80 column monitor for the 64/128.
 If anyone has one of these for sale, trade or just wanting to give it
away, let me know.. :)

--
C-Net 64 DS2 Software   WWW:      http://www.infinet.com/~mbendure
92 Lee Ave Suite N3       Email:         [e-mail]
Newark, Ohio 43055        IRC:           #C-Net on Efnet

(614)/788-8568                CommNet:  Mitron @ Cygnus X-1

Cygnus X-1 BBS
(614)/522-6563


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From: "Michael Bendure" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: Colour Canon printer drivers
Date: 18 Jul 1996 05:37:40 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 23
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Malcolm O'Brien <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<4sdun2$[e-mail]>...
> Last night I was chatting with someone who has just bought a Canon
BJC-4100 and
> is using it with GEOS.  It's working OK but he's not getting any colour.
Does
> anybody know of a site where I could pick up a colour driver for him?

   While we are at it.  I have a BJC-610 I'd like to have a driver for as
well.. :)

--
C-Net 64 DS2 Software   WWW:      http://www.infinet.com/~mbendure
92 Lee Ave Suite N3       Email:         [e-mail]
Newark, Ohio 43055        IRC:           #C-Net on Efnet

(614)/788-8568                CommNet:  Mitron @ Cygnus X-1

Cygnus X-1 BBS
(614)/522-6563

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From: [e-mail] (Lee Huggett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.games,comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: ESCOM Germany Bankrupt
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 09:58:24 GMT
Lines: 28
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On 20-Jul-96 13:20:42, Fabio Bizzetti said about Re: ESCOM Germany Bankrupt:
> David Evans ([e-mail]) wrote:


> (Tramiel?):
> Was Jack Tramiel the founder of Commodore? Are you sure?

Yep He was...

Then he got into a bit of strife with the rest of the C= board and left, Can you
imagine how pissed off he would have been when C= snatched the Amiga from under
his nose?

That one swift move effectively killed off Atari....

Maybe that was C= best and certainly last good move...

Lee



*********************************************************
* This Microsoft stuff.  looking at it.. in perspective *
*            Its just a bag of muck really...           *
*********************************************************
I'm not telling you my Amigas spec.. you'll only get jealous
Lee Huggett [e-mail]

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From: Phil Porth <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: Can anyone help me (again)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 00:51:22 -0600
Organization: Calgary Free-Net
Lines: 23
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ca>
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To: Gord Schultz <[e-mail]>
In-Reply-To: <4se2sl$[e-mail]>

On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, Gord Schultz wrote:

> I recently re-connected my C-64, and wanted to make new copies of my old
> games.  I was wondering if I could buy new 5 1/4 disks and use them for the
> C-64?  I assume that the program I have will format them to 360k  is this so?
> Please help me!
Don't buy High Density 5 1/4" disks. Your 1541 drive will not work with
them (experience speaking here) Buy ds/dd (double density) disks and a
notcher so that you can flip the disk and insert it upside down in the
drive and write to the second side. Each side formats to 664 blocks. If
you have a 1571 drive then use the same disks, but you don't have to
notch the second side as the 71 has 2 heads to read and write to bothe
sides of the disk. It will format to 1328 blocks free. You can't
format Commodore disks on an MsDos machine without running an emulator
program that will connect the 1541 drive to the PC.

Phil Porth (aka Phone Man)

From the land of the frozen North, Calgary Alberta Canada
Home of the Calgary Stampede
and Calgary Commodore Users Group


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From: [e-mail] (Dean Ridgway)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: MULE: All time best scores?
Date: 21 Jul 1996 03:25:46 -0700
Organization: CS Outreach Services, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR, USA
Lines: 24
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<[e-mail]> <4smj3t$[e-mail]>
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In article <4smj3t$[e-mail]>,
Paul Allen Panks <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I've noticed that in the Tournament game with 1 player and 3 computer
>players:
>
>The computer players (mechtrons) always get first shot at plots, even if
>you press the button immediately. There's nothing to override their
>dominance in this department (I've only played with Flapper and Human, so

Its based on your standing, the higher you are on the standings, the less
priority you have when choosing plots.

>Plots with "No crystite found in plot" will nevertheless still produce
>crystite if your energy is high enough (I had a No Crystite plot produce
>7 units once).

This is part of economies of scale, etc.  Its all explained in the docs.

  /\-/\   Dean Ridgway               |  Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-
 ( - - )  InterNet [e-mail]  |  I took the one less traveled by,
 =\_v_/=  FidoNet 1:357/1.103        |  And that has made all the difference.
          CIS 73225,512              |     "The Road Not Taken" - Robert Frost.
http://www.peak.org/~ridgwad/
PGP mail encouraged, finger for key: 28C577F3 2A5655AFD792B0FB 9BA31E6AB4683126
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From: Jason <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: 64C case
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 96 15:24:45 GMT
Organization: Cosine Systems
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D. Bryant:
: Can someone tell me wether the innards of a C-64 will fit into a 64-C
: case without modification?

Matthias Kirchner:
: It won't fit into a 64-C case. The 'old' board is about 30% larger than
: the new one.

Jacob Huebert:
: It certainly will fit!  I'm using a 64-C with original 64 innards even
: as I type this.

I've happily swapped boards and cases both ways several times.  All the
cases have enough screw holes for either board.

Jason  =-)
     _______________________________________________________________________
TMR /     /     /     /  /     /     /                                     /\
   /  /__/  /  /  /__/  /  /  /  /__/    Email: [e-mail]    / /
  /  /\_/  /  /__   /  /  /  /  __//          Cosine Homepage:           / /
 /  /__/  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /   Moving soon!  New site found...   / /
/_____/_____/_____/__/__/__/_____/_____________________________________/ /
\_____\_____\_____\__\__\__\_____\_____________________________________\/
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Miller)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Joystick Port Interfacing
Date: 21 Jul 1996 16:17:21 GMT
Organization: InfoNet Inc., Rochester, MN
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This is what I wrote up over the last few days.  I'm sorry if you don't
like the not-exactly-serious style, but that's just how I've been lately.
:-)

Enjoy.

Mike Miller

Michael Jay Miller's Wonderful Joystick Port Networking System
 ...or at least a bunch of musings while watching an LED turn on and off
at my command while the LED is sitting in a Radio Shack box connected to
my joystick port...

**WARNING: I don't have all the original stuff for this anymore; too many
moves have caused it to disappear on me.  I also don't have the box
anymore, so I can't test this right offhand.  Plus I don't remember how
much current you can slap through a CIA chip.  Hopefully it will be
helpful, but if your Commodore fries messing around with this, I will not
be responsible.  I didn't fry my Commie doing this, so you probably won't
have any trouble.

This text is copyright (C)1996 Michael Jay Miller.  You may freely
distribute, print, etc. this text, so long as this message remains intact.
If you make something useful out of this information, and you're releasing
it for free, please credit me; if you're releasing useful stuff from this
and "$$$$$$ MAKING MONEY FAST $$$$$$ Moola Buckazoids....", then send me
some of the money!

...sorry, my mind gets away from me at times.

The basic theory behind using the joystick ports lies in the 6526 CIA 1/A
chip that controls the keyboard, joystick ports, and is used for tape and
serial timing.  For my simple tests, only 4 memory locations in that
chip's registers are actually used: $DC00-$DC03  (56320-56323).

If you have the book "Programming the Commodore 64" by Raeto Colin West,
open to page 125 for a nice diagram of how the CIA looks in memory.  If
not, open to pages 328 & 329 of your Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference
Guide.  Here's a quick summary:

$DC00 is Joystick Port 2  ("CIA Port A")
$DC01 is Joystick Port 1  ("CIA Port B")
Bit 4=Fire, Bit 3=E/Right, Bit 2=W/Left, Bit 1=S/Down, Bit 0=N/Up

$DC02 is "Port A Data Direction Register"
$DC03 is "Port B Data Direction Register"

To read bits coming in (for a joystick, for example), you set the bits you
want to read to 0 in the appropriate Data Direction Register, and then
read the appropriate bits in the Port.

The practical upshot of all this: if you disable the interrupts (because
the keyboard runs off this as well), reset the Data Direction Registers to
how you want to read or write, and then put the right bits into the two
ports, whatever is connected to the other side can read or write to this.
This may be easier to see with an example:

"The Box, Mark 1"
Parts: 1 joystick extension cable (or end from a broken joystick), 1
project box, 1 or more LEDs, 1 or more switches, one of those
speaker-wire clip 8-packs (the things you can clip wires into), and
connection methods (clip leads, solder, etc.) + a monitor and assembler.

In the Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide, page 395, they show the
pinout for the two joystick ports.  Something like this:

-------------------------    1=Bit 0    7=5 volt
!   o   o   o   o   o   !    2=Bit 1    8=GND
 !  1   2   3   4   5  !     3=Bit 2
  !   o   o   o   o   !      4=Bit 3    5=POT Y
   !  6   7   8   9  !       6=Bit 5    9=POT X
   -------------------

What you want to do is wire up pins 1-4 to 4 ends of the speaker wire
things, pin 7 to one of the speaker wire things, pin 8 to one of them, and
maybe wire a couple switches in as well.  Hook up an LED between pins 7
and 8: plug it in a joystick port, and turn on the computer.  Hopefully
it lights. If not, turn the LED around, check connections, etc.  Once
you know which way the LED works, remember which pin goes to 7 and which
goes to 8; these remain the same throughout the experiments.

Once you know which way to plug in your LED, hook it between pins 0 and 8.
Turn the computer off, plug it into Joystick Port 2, and turn it back on.
It should light up, since port 2 is set to all outputs, and the system is
constantly looking for input there.  Then try hooking it up to pins 7 and
0, and plugging it into port 1.  It should light up as well.  Either of
these may cause characters to run across the screen, just like if you were
holding up on the joystick in the appropriate port.

Now try hooking up a few LEDs to pins 1-4 and 8.  For sake of example,
I'll work with pins 1 and 2.  Hook your box to port 1, and turn on the
computer.  The LEDs should be off.  Now load up your favorite monitor (or
assembler, I guess) and type in this:

A C000 sei       ; disable keyboard
lda #0           ; initialize
sta $DC01        ; joyport 1
sta $DC03        ; and its DDR : 4321 pins
lda #07          ; that's   0000 1111=bits 0-3, pins 1-4 outputs
sta $DC03        ; that's DDR B, setting pins 1-4 to output
lda #01          ; pin 1 on
sta $DC01        ; and get it going
here jmp here    ; here is the address your monitor gave for this line.
G C000

Hopefully the LED turned on and the computer seems to lock up.  Press
RESTORE a few times to get back to the monitor  (at least, my monitor does
that.)  By editing the line

lda #01          ; pin 1 on

to anything from 0 to 15, you can control the lights via their appropriate
bits.  Have fun.

By changing the LEDs to being hooked between pins 7 and 1-4, with a switch
wired in, and a nice BASIC program, you can read the status (just like a
joystick).  Page 344 of the Programmer's Reference Guide has a program you
can adapt: just get rid of all the stuff about North and South and just
PRINT the value in 56320 (port 2) or 56321 (port 1).  Push the switch, the
value should change.  Yay!

Now, hook an LED between pins 1 and 2.  Put the voltage side (pin 7) on
pin 1.  Get back into your monitor, and try this:

A C000
sei
lda #00     ; init
sta $DC01
sta $DC03
lda #01     ; output for pin 1, input for pin 2
sta $DC03
sta $DC01   ; activate
nop         ; pause
nop
nop
nop
nop
lda $DC01   ; read
sta $FE     ; temp
lda $00     ; reset
sta $DC03   ; normally all reads
cli         ; back to normal
lda $FE     ; reload acc
brk         ; exit to monitor
G C000


Hopefully, the accumulator now holds $03.  The pause may take longer, or
may not be needed (my notes don't indicate).  By setting the appropriate
bits, you can now read and write through the port.  If you have two boxes,
you can read and write between joystick ports (much safer).  "But," you
ask, "I can't do much in the way of input..."  Well, that's why you need:


"The Box, Mark 2"

Parts: "The Box, Mark 1", Other end of joystick extension cable or similar
9-pin Male port, 1351 mouse or compatible, good ML skills.

Remember we didn't use pin 6/bit 5, the fire button?  This is why: if you
wire in an extra joystick port with pins 5-9 attached, you can hook a 1351
up to it and read that from the SID chip, with the fire button running
from pin 6 (bit 5) on the CIA.  You don't want to hook up pins 1-4 because
the other fire buttons run off there.

Also, you want to make sure you set the CIA appropriately: $DC00 bits 7
and 6 control which paddle you're reading:

10xx xxxx = Paddles in Joyport 1
01xx xxxx = Paddles in Joyport 2

I'm sorry I don't have much in the way of specific examples for this,
because this is where I stopped doing things and just wrote down ideas.
If I can find that box again, I should be able to do a full-blown writeup
for C=Hacking or something.


A MikeNet Cable

To set up an actual cable to hook between two Commies and still allow one
of them to use a mouse (for, say, selecting files from an on-screen
directory list and menu?), you want to hook lines 1-4 direct connect, and
pins 5-9 to pins 5-9 of a male 9-pin port or cable to hook to your
1351-compatible.


File transfer

The direct-connect file transfer protocol I had in mind would use pins 1
and 2 to send 2 bits at a time, pin 3 for a RDY line from the sending
machine, and pin 4 for an ACK line from the receiving machine.  Basically,
the RDY line would change level when the sending computer had the
appropriate bits on pins 1 and 2, and the ACK line would change every time
the receiving computer got it.  Or something like that.  Or do like Craig
Bruce and junk all that kind of ACKing for speed.  Whatever.


Network setup

I had two basic ideas for network setups, a Ring style (not too great) and
a Server style (cool, but requires lots of hardware).

RingNet

Each computer would be hooked from their joyport 2 to the next computer's
joyport 1.  One machine is designated "Master".  This machine would send
"I'm number 1, you're a Slave, take the next number and pass it along"
until the Master received something like "I'm number 8, you're a Slave,
take the next number and pass it along".  Of course, the Master knows it's
not a Slave.  Then it sends out something like "There's 8 computers in the
ring.  We're open for business."

Then, each computer can pass messages to each computer by number, and if
you get a message that isn't your number, you pass it along.  The master
computer double-checks that the ring is working, and resets it if
necessary.

How can the computer keep working?  Well, Craig Bruce has that 3-key
rollover routine that also checks to see if the joystick ports are being
used: if so, just trigger a routine to handle the message, pass it along
if necessary, then clear the ports and continue.  That's why I designated
an RDY line: if that's up, the previous computer has a message to send.

As long as the messages aren't sent very often, the system shouldn't slow
down too much, and you may even be able to do other things in the
meantime.  Or you could go to where I got the idea from, the Atari ST
program MIDIMaze, and write a fun game like that.  Of course, you have to
use the mouse to control it, but something could be arranged.


Server Setup

With a server, my design has a box hooked between the server and the other
systems in the network.  This box has its own processor (it might be a 64
only running this program) that has lines running to each system.  Data
pins 1 and 2 are hooked up to all systems and the box.  Each system gets
its own RDY and ACK line (from somewhere!)  The server and the box have a
standard 1/2/RDY/ACK that the box echos to the appropriate system.  Each
system has a number; the server is 0.

Basically, when a system has a request for the server, it raises its ACK
line; when the box and server are ready to process, the box raises the RDY
line for that system, and then they transfer messages.  If the system is
sending a message to another system (like talk or ping in unix) the box
handles sending that along.  Otherwise, the box calls up the server, and
sends messages to there to be handled.

The messages would be queued, to avoid deadlocks--whenever a system is
sending a message, the box would check to see if that system had any
messages it needs to receive, and send them.


That's basically all I have right now...feel free to comment on this, send
me messages, design better systems, etc.
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From: [e-mail] (PCHASE)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Power Supply
Date: 21 Jul 1996 16:51:08 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University
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   I just got a power supply for a 64 that has 7 pins and the one I use
has only four pins.  The input and output numbers are the same on both
supplies.  Can I just change the plug on the 7 pin one with the 4 pin one
and will (of course) there be any extra wires?
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From: [e-mail] (Jens Ellerbrock)
Subject: Re: d64
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Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 11:18:32 GMT
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Thomas Pinto ([e-mail]) wrote:
> Is there a command we can use with Unix to decompile this .D64 file???

ftp.funet.fi:/pub/cbm/transfer/cbmconvert or something like that. It
includes a disk2zip and a disk 2 files command.

Jens
--
Jens Ellerbrock  *  Holtenauer Str 162  *  24105 Kiel  *  [e-mail]
"BELIEVE AND DECEIVE"  ><>  *  Tel: 0431 / 806890  *  Modem/x75: 0431 / 84749
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                        Worked for me all the times.
                            -- Linus Torvalds --
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From: [e-mail] (Dan Amborn)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: Problems with old 64 and old 1541, and a newer 64C
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 17:29:33 GMT
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On 20 Jul 1996 01:25:11 GMT, [e-mail] (Christopher Hume) wrote:

>Also, our first 64 (now quite old as it contains the infamous lock-up
>bug :-) which of course, was fixed in later models such as my 64C), has

What is this lockup bug?  Never heard of it before.  Is it on the early early
C64's with
the -1 kernal roms or something?


--
Dan Amborn
[e-mail]
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From: Robert Parratt <[e-mail]>
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> >
> > Amiga is not affected because VIScorp property now.
> > Dunno what this means though..
> >
> > I wish the Amiga was my "problem". :-(

I wish they'd let it die, and tht new one they're making. Like, PowerPC
chips? You must be joking. Why not put some poer under it's bonet at
least, like and Alpha, or maybe an ARM. Better question is why not scrap
the architecture and design some sort of Super64, with parralel 6510s,
etc. Well, any good arguements?
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From: [e-mail] (Geoffrey Welsh)
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Robert Parratt <[e-mail]> wrote:

>> >
>> > Amiga is not affected because VIScorp property now.
>> > Dunno what this means though..
>> >
>> > I wish the Amiga was my "problem". :-(

>I wish they'd let it die, and tht new one they're making. Like, PowerPC
>chips? You must be joking. Why not put some poer under it's bonet at
>least, like and Alpha, or maybe an ARM. Better question is why not scrap
>the architecture and design some sort of Super64, with parralel 6510s,
>etc. Well, any good arguements?

I'd like to hear the "good arguments" behind your ideas.

The POWER architecture delivers fair processing power for a relatively
low price.

Alpha-based equipment is not cheap.

Parallel 6510s would make memory management a nightmare.  The PC world
is finally beginning a painful move into a flat memory architecture,
something the Amiga had from day 1.

And, probably the most painful thing to realize: a 'Super64' wouldn't
appeal to too many people beyond a number of C64 fans... and there
just aren't enough of us to make it a viable mass-market competitor.

The Amiga offers a lot compared to PCs and Apples, and has its pros
and cons vs. UNIX; given the right direction, it could recapture a
modest market share.

Then again, sometimes I think that Amiga should go the way of NeXT:
drop the hardware and sell the OS/architecture.

--
Geoffrey Welsh, Developer, InSystems Technologies Inc. ([e-mail])
  At home: [e-mail] or [xenitec.on.ca|m2xenix.psg.com]!zswamp!geoff
   Alternate: [e-mail]; Temporary: [e-mail]
            TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS GROUNDS FOR IMMEDIATE DISMISSAL.

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From: [e-mail] (WShrake)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: Vic-20 info posted here.
Date: 21 Jul 1996 15:33:35 -0400
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The following are the results of (A) not enough sleep (B) a sick mind or
(C)
some fairly decent detective work on my part. You decide....

I think I've seen some patterns, from the earliest days of Commodore's
Vic-20 period. Below is an edited list of the Vic-20 software cartridges
that Commodore released themselves, and sold. Below that are my thoughts
on what it all means. Hope you find it interesting ... I did!

Ward Shrake



List of Commodore-released Vic-20 Cartridges (Explained in text below)

(Stage one; before any rumbles heard from the Bally/Midway company?)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Avenger (also Vic Avenger)      [vic-1901]      Space Invaders: a Midway
game
Star Battle                     [vic-1902]      Galaxian: a Midway game
Name & confirmation needed      [vic-1903]      (Only assumed to exist)
Slot (also Super Slot)          [vic-1904]      A Commodore original
Jelly Monsters                  [vic-1905]      Pac Man: a Midway game
Alien (also Super Alien)        [vic-1906]      A Commodore original
Jupiter Lander                  [vic-1907]      Lunar Lander, by Atari
Poker (or Draw Poker)           [vic-1908]      A Commodore original
Midnight Drive (also Road Race) [vic-1909]      Night Driver, by Atari
Radar Rat Race                  [vic-1910]      Rally-X: a Midway game
The Sky is Falling              [vic-1911]      Avalanche, by Atari
Mole Attack                     [vic-1912]      A Commodore original


(Stage two; trying to appease Bally/Midway's lawyers, head off being
sued?)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-
Raid on Fort Knox               [vic-1913]    Less ripped-off Rally-X


(Stage three; trying to act legitimate, now that the heat is on?)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Adventure Land Adventure        [vic-1914]    Scott Adams game; licensed.
Pirate's Cove Adventure         [vic-1915]    Scott Adams game; licensed.
Mission Impossible Adventure    [vic-1916]    Scott Adams game; licensed.
The Count Adventure             [vic-1917]    Scott Adams game; licensed.
Voodoo Castle Adventure         [vic-1918]    Scott Adams game; licensed.
Sargon II Chess                 [vic-1919]    A licensed chess game.
Pinball (...Spectacular)        [vic-1920]    A Commodore original.
Super Smash                     [vic-1921]    A Commodore original.


(Stage four; after the settlement between Bally/Midway and Commodore.)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Cosmic Cruncher                 [vic-1922]    Non-infringing "Pac Man"
clone
Gorf                            [vic-1923]    Bally/Midway arcade
translation
Omega Race                      [vic-1924]    Bally/Midway arcade
translation
Money Wars                      [vic-1925]    One Commodore original...
Menagerie                       [vic-1926]    Another original...
Cosmic Jailbreak                [vic-1927]    Another original...
Home Babysitter                 [vic-1928]    Another original...
Personal Finance                [vic-1929]    Another original...
Visible Solar System            [vic-1930]    Another original...


(Stage five; the next batch of carts, still using a 1-to-2 ratio.)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Clowns                          [vic-1931]   Bally/Midway arcade
translation
Garden Wars                     [vic-1932]   Commodore original
Speed Math & Bingo Math         [vic-1933]   Commodore original


(Stage six; unsure, but could have been planned for same ratio.)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Name & confirmation needed      [vic-1934]    Unknown; arcade
translation??
Commodore Artist                [vic-1935]    Commodore original
Name & confirmation needed      [vic-1936]    Was it a Commodore
original??


(Stage seven; the next batch of carts, still using a 1-to-2 ratio.)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sea Wolf                        [vic-1937]    Bally/Midway arcade
translation
Tooth Invaders                  [vic-1938]    Commodore original
Star Post                       [vic-1939]    Commodore original


(Stage eight; switching over to the C64 by now. Still planned 1-to-2 now?)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-
Name & confirmation needed      [vic-1940]    A planned Bally/Midway
game??
Number Nabber, Shape Grabber    [vic-1941]    Commodore original




FACT:  Commodore definitely violated some copyrights of other companies,
early in its career for the Vic-20; this is easy enough for one to see, if
one knows enough about games once made for the Vic-20.

Among these were "Space Invaders" (renamed "Avenger"), "Galaxian" (renamed
"Star Battle") and "Pac Man" (renamed "Jelly Monsters"). They also made a
near-perfect copy of "Rally-X" which they called "Radar Rat Race".

As all four of these games were owned in one way or another by Midway,
this apparently created problems for Commodore. Note that Atari also had
some grounds to sue, but I have not heard that they did.

FACT:  Commodore later made some sort of settlement or agreement with the
Bally/Midway company; Commodore themselves refer to it as exactly that, in
their own "house organ" magazine, "Commodore Power Play". Who knows what
the details of that agreement may have been ... I can speculate as to part
of the agreement, but it is just educated speculation. (Anyone know for
sure?)

However, I think we can get a good glimpse into ancient computer history,
using good research and logical deduction. Please refer to the list of
Commodore-made carts, first. Then we'll go on.


EDUCATED SPECULATION:  Ready to move on? Good.

I note that the three "holes" in the production # series follow a
semi-regular pattern, from about mid-point in the list on down.

Could it be possible that Commodore once planned to convert and release
one Bally/Midway "classic" followed by two original Commodore games, then
repeat it?

In other words, is that what the settlement was?

It sort of makes sense, as it would tend to benefit both companies.
Bally/Midway would then have an outlet for no-cost-and-all-profit arcade
conversions to be done, and Commodore would get some hot (or at least
lukewarm) arcade titles for its cartridge collection, to brag about.


As "Cosmic Cruncher" is really a cleaned-up, legal Pac Man variant, and is
therefore a Bally/Midway owned game, I count it along with the next two
releases, Gorf and Omega Race: also Bally/Midway games. That makes three
Bally/Midway games in a row. These three are then followed by six
Commodore-original games.

Right after the (in court?) settlement, nine games were planned; Commodore
released three Bally/Midway games first, then did six themselves,
establishing a ratio of 1-to-2 games.

This "one of yours then two of ours" pattern is what I'm focusing on. Sort
of reverse-engineering an apparent court decision, in a sense, with my
research.

Anyway, next was Clowns, (another B/M game) followed by two more Commodore
games.

Then there is a hole in my current lists, where I don't know the name of
the game planned. I assume it could be a Bally/Midway game, possibly
"Wizard of Wor", as that was rumored to be one that Commodore definitely
once planned to put out. See the list for more, as it gets a little
confusing around now. What happened here, besides the C64's arrival, I
have no clue.

After that, things clear up again. Now comes one more Bally/Midway "arcade
classic" (Sea Wolf) as Commodore called it, apparently referring to its
age in the arcades then. This is followed by two more Commodore-original
games, so we're back on the pattern again.

Games could have been scheduled in advance, even started, then cancelled
later or moved to the C64 instead. This would explain some of the holes in
the list, and leave the pattern intact.

After this point, things had mostly switched over to the C64. There is
another hole in my lists, where I don't know what game was to be released,
then one more Commodore game, but I've never found any production
(Vic-19xx) numbers higher than these. Was another Commodore game planned
then; Vic-1942? If so, what was it going to be?

Do you see the repeating pattern? It seems to follow a steady and
unchanging ratio; one Bally/Midway game to every two created by Commodore
themselves.

Assuming all this is true, that means there were some more cool Vic20
arcade game conversions that were once in development, that may be "out
there" still in one form or another.

I guess the next step is to track them down, and archive them, so they
aren't lost forever! Even if they are just partially done, its still a
worthwhile part of history!

If anyone has any leads on where/how to find Jeff Bruette, or any other
ex-Commodore programmer, email me please! I'd like to verify these
stories, and find that software!

Ward Shrake