No Fragments Archive 12: Textmags & Docs/nf_archive_12.iso/MAGS/TEXTMAGS/ATARI16/INFO91.ZIP/INFO91/646.TXT

Text File | 1992-05-11 | 28.3 KB | 675 lines

Info-Atari16 Digest         Sun,  8 Dec 91       Volume 91 : Issue 646

Today's Topics:
                             Atari books
          Atari Chicago Show...if you want details Mail me.
                             Atari Spirit
           Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there? (2 msgs)
Atari Unix vs. other vendors (was Re: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?)
                  CACHEXXX.PRG Where can I find it?
                                 DC?
                        HELP: Mouse is flaky.
                    Phasar Upgrade Contact Wanted
                        ST Hard Drive for Sale
                            TT prices Now
             Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product (2 msgs)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 15:51:40 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!wupost!waikato
 .ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix![e-mail] (Roger Sheppard)
Subject: Atari books
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Following up on the question someone asked about what Atari books are
> still available, it turns out I was wrong about Compute! Books dropping
> their entire Atari line.  They've only dropped most of them.
>
> After playing phone tag with ABC Publications and Compute! Books,
> I learned that they still have 5 Atari books listed as being available.
>
> These include the three-part Technical reference series by Sheldon
> Leemon (VDI, AES and TOS), their Beginners' Machine Language book, and
> one other that I didn't write down.
>
> If anyone's interested in obtaining any of these, the phone number I
> ended up with is:  [phone]
>
> BobR


Some one else posted here about the TOS book and a 'C' book, with a phone
No. to bye them from, I have tried to order from 'Compute' before with out
any luck at all..

Does any one know if the 'C' book is any good...?
--
***  Roger W. Sheppard      *      [e-mail]  ***
***  85 Donovan Rd        *    *   GEnie.  R.SHEPPARD5               ***
***  Kapiti                        At least I don't Flicker,         ***
***  New Zealand..          *      not like a dying light globe      ***

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 15:56:28 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.pri
 mate.wisc.edu!doug.cae.wisc.edu![e-mail] (Gregory Carter)
Subject: Atari Chicago Show...if you want details Mail me.
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
 (Mark O'Bryan) writes:

>Aghast - definition: frightened, horrified.
>
>Why would seeing lots of Atari staffers scare you?  Were you afraid
>that if there was some disaster that a large portion of their man-
>power would be eliminated?
>

No, I wasn't scared they would lose thier "man power".  Its a surprising
reaction to a company who doesn't have a history of strong support at
this level...to see them at the show like this was not something I think
anyone expected.  I know most of the developers didn't who were there.


>It was XFacemaker2, by a 3rd party, not "Atari's own version".  One
>weird thing about the Motif-based UI running on the Unix TTs that both
>Charles Johnson and I noticed was the mouse tracking.  It seemed both
>sluggish and jumpy at the same time (even after disabling some running
>processes).  We didn't find out why, but it was definitely different
>from normal GEM mouse tracking feel.

Well, yes, thats a detail.   Not a very important one either.  Atari Will
have the rights to the toolkit.  It will be theirs once they get the
thing sold.  I didn't say THEY MADE IT now did I?  I assume something is
YOURS once you pay money for it. (i.e. rights)

>
>Regarding MultiGEM:
>
..
>
>What is their upgrade policy that is second to none?  I'm curious because
>Paradigm has been putting out 3 updates a year to our Omni-Banker ST
>universal MIDI librarian, since it was introduced in 1987.  Support has
>grown from 30 some instruments to over 280 devices (more than any other
>librarian product, running on any computer), plus loads of new features,
>and we've never charged anything more than a nominal shipping fee.
>

To the original owners of MultiGEM you get a very well done set of
documentation, a very nice set of utilities, for $20 dollars I believe.
(Very much an opinion, you should take as being: A VERY GOOD DEAL.)
(It was meant to be a shot at Paradigm)

>[Also, Rimik Enterprises is not a "European Company", it's a US developer
>(Richard Betson) who is importing a product from Germany, developed by
>PAM Soft.]

I should have said I was impressed with European developers, sorry about
the confusion I caused with that statement.  (Although you don't sound
confused more irate I didn't say something akin about Paradigm.)

>
>I too am frequently (although not uniformly) impressed with German/UK
>software developers.  But are you implying that US developers are any
>less hard working?
>

I am not infering US software designers are any less hardworking.

I meant to convey that US software designers are just a little more thick
headed.  I don't say this out of spight either.  I attend a University
which posesses the worlds most advanced computer architecture to date, and
from going through the Comp Sci program here, I am generalizing US people
need more computing power to make up for less thought power.  Mainly because
proper Software Engineering methods aren't discussed here..(Most seniors
don't have the Fogiest idea what a machine debugger is, or even a source
debugger...they STILL insist on printf, recompile printf, recompile.
Not the best way to build quality, production level software in the
real world where people pay good money.)

>
>Once again, I'm confused.  "Laughing all the way to the bank" generally
>has a negative connotation to it.  Do you feel that they were taking
>advantage of people, or ripping them off in some way?  Or have you just
>not said what you meant (or meant what you said)?

I didn't mean it too be negative.  It was meant to convey how well they
were doing.  No people were not being takin advantage of.
(Although, thats just my opinion, whats yours?)

>
>There was definitely strong Atari support, however, this was far from the
>"first time" they have supplied lots of machines for developer booths.

True, Atari has supplied developers in the past, but I am talking about
a question of degree.  If you needed hardware, and space.  You got it.
(Within reason of course.)

In this way it really WAS the first time Atari REALLY did some support PR.

>There were certainly more TTs and 19" monitors there than I've ever seen
>in one place before.  I remember going to the Toronto show back in May,
>and being disappointed that there wasn't a single 19" monitor in sight.
>An impressive showing.  Hopefully, Atari will feel that it was worth the
>effort.

I hope they do.  I personally felt Atari got a big face lift when they attended
this show.  I hope they do better in the future.

>
>--
>Mark T. O'Bryan                 Internet:  [e-mail]
>Western Michigan University
>Kalamazoo, MI  49008

--Greg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Employed: Computer Aided Engineering Center - University Wisconsin - Madison
 Major: Computer Science - Emphasis: System Design Tools, User Interfaces
           Phone Home: [phone]  -  Work: [phone]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 15:05:22 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!jonh.wims
 ey.bc.ca![e-mail] (John Henders)
Subject: Atari Spirit
To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
 writes:
>
>Bob isn't being quite truthful with you here, of course.
>

        Another thing to note on STart's demise. As far as I'm concerned
they committed editorial suicide several years before their actual
demise by shifting focus from a magazine addressed to a relatively
knowledgable user base, to one focused on a "gosh, wow" croud who
were amazed to find you could use the reset button rather than turning
the computer on and off.( STart Tip #23 )
        Classic example number 43, the STart issue dedicated to the ST in
business, featuring a cover showing some guy using it to run a lemonade
stand. Certainly would increase my respect for the ST as a business
machine.
        St Log kept a focus on a more advanced user. and as was stated,
was making a modest profit. However, when Larry Flint Publications
bought them, modest profits weren't that interesting. Maybe they
should have tried adding a centerfold.
        Here in Canada, the availability of the excellent ST World from
England made me less likely to buy either U.S. publication, though
I still check ST Log monthly to see if there was one or two articles
worth reading.
        I still treasure issues from the first two years of STart's existance,
when it featured things like the recently mention article by Dave Small
" Probing the FDC " or Tom Hudson's RayTrace program, comnplete with
source code. It seemed like STart allowed a reader survey to influence it's
direction, and I guess the people who like the articles mentioned above
don't fill out survey forms. Also, Antic had an exclusivity deal with
Compu$erve for a long while, though GEnie was the Official Atari US
support service and it's cheaper rates attracted us cheapskate Atari
users.
        Just another perspective.


--
                John Henders            [e-mail]
                Vancouver,B.C

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 16:58:49 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Siriu
 s.dfn.de!rusmv1![e-mail] (Markus Wenzel)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steven D. Borrelli) writes:
>I think that Atari should think carefully about entering the UNIX
>market, which is starting to get competitive. UNIX of ome form is
>already available on Mac, Amigas, and PC's, and those systems are
>really challenged by the likes of SUN and NeXT. Atari needs something
>to make it's UNIX machine special, or it won't do very well, (Like the
>Amiga Unix configuartion.)
>
>Of course, you could reverse my logic and say that Atari needs to come out
>with one if it expects to compete with everyone else. Then again, what do I
>know?
You hit the nail. Unix is the only OS with a real future for the next decade.
I don't think that _any_ computer corporation can ignore this, so you simply
have to bring out a Unix machine. If they offer special features, great, but
for serious users it is more important to have a stable OS and a cheap but
efficient hardware configuration. If Ataris ASV can compete with future
products - I dont't know. Wait and see.

>[e-mail]  (NeXTmail accepted)
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lucky man ;-)


* /dev/                Markus Wenzel, University of Stuttgart  *
* /usr/spool/mail/     [e-mail]             *
* /usr/voice/private/  [phone]                       *
* /bin/ps -l           TT admin on rusmv1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de *
* /etc/motd            >> We'll meet in /dev/null ...8-) <<    *

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 18:26:46 GMT
From: mcsun!news.funet.fi!sunic!ugle.unit.no!lise.unit.no![e-mail]
 (Stig Vidar Hovland)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> And I suggest that you read a book / take a course on 68K-based computer
|> design.
|>

I have already designed/made a 68K-based computer. (And it works.....)


|> Repeat after me: Data transfer speed is limited to RAM response time

Yes, of course it is limited to Ram response time and _not_ because of any slow
 bus
somewhere in the computer.
As I have understand it, the Atari TT can read 4 longwords in 5 clockperiods and
write 1 longword in 4 clockperiods. (1 waitstate) This is with the Atari-made
ram card. There are other cards on the market which is faster than this.

Stig Vidar Hovland - [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 15:14:43 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso
 .uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu![e-mail] (John Paul Pietrzak)
Subject: Atari Unix vs. other vendors (was Re: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out
 there?)
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steven D. Borrelli) writes:
>
>I think that Atari should think carefully about entering the UNIX
>market, which is starting to get competitive. UNIX of ome form is
>already available on Mac, Amigas, and PC's, and those systems are
>really challenged by the likes of SUN and NeXT. Atari needs something
>to make it's UNIX machine special, or it won't do very well, (Like the
>Amiga Unix configuartion.)

That's probably true.  I think Atari probably won't be able to keep up
with the hardware and software advances being made by the likes of NeXT
or Sun, where megabucks are being put into R&D.  However, Atari has always
been able to come up with inexpensive machines.  Currently, I cannot
afford to personally own a Unix workstation; and I know people who have
put together their own IBM clone--Unix systems only because they wanted
to use Unix, but couldn't afford anything else.  If Atari could come out
with a no-frills Unix box, instead of do-it-all machines like NeXT makes,
and sell them at their traditional low cost, I think they could do some
buisness.


John "Right now, I could use a low-cost Unix system" Pietrzak

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 15:06:22 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!jonh.wims
 ey.bc.ca![e-mail] (John Henders)
Subject: CACHEXXX.PRG Where can I find it?
To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]>, Piet van Oostrum writes:
>I have CACHE050.PRG in my AUTO folder and found a problem with accessing
>the floppy drive under Gulam. When I change the floppy, some of the
>information from the old floppy is still in the cache. directory listings
>are mostly correct, i.e. from the new floppy, but when I ask for the free
>space (df a) I get the amount from the previous floppy. Does anybody know a
>way around this. I.e. is there a way to flush the cache on a disk swap.
>Ideally cache.prg should detect this automatically.

        I think it does, as this has never happened to me. Are you sure you
don't have one of the mega's which had a drive which didn't return
the disk changed message? If you're using TOS 1.4, it was fixed to
always force a media change from the desktop, but alternative desktops
and shell programs still didn't get a disk change message. Atari US
never acknowledged these defective drives and I think the FMC hack in
1.4 was done so it would be less noticable, but it's still a problem.
        There's a pd program, probably available on atari.archive, called
fmc which is a tsr that will fix the problem, but it doesn't use xbra,
and is fussy about auto folder order. Gulam also may be using a semi
legal method of reading the drive, as it did to get free memory.
Gulam broke several rules it really didn't need to.
--
                John Henders            [e-mail]
                Vancouver,B.C

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 18:27:24 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.
 cis.pitt.edu![e-mail] (Sharon L Skwara)
Subject: DC?
To: [e-mail]

  Is DC software still doing their programs a week, or is that over?  If
they're still doing it, here's an idea.  How about an ACC that pops open
a window (say 4 characters high) and shows all the available characters
(from ASCII 0 to ASCII 255) - and if you click on the character, it will act
as if you typed it.  This way, one could use the ST and NEVER need to touch
the keyboard - type with the mouse.  What do you think?

                                        [e-mail]


------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 15:41:49 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-
 state.edu!paperboy.micro.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!kksys!tdkt![e-mail]
 (Chuck Grimsby)
Subject: HELP: Mouse is flaky.
To: [e-mail]

In a message of <Dec 05 04:47>, Corey Liu (1:282/31) writes:
 >From: [e-mail] (Corey Liu)
 >Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st

 >My original ST mouse (1988) is acting flaky.  The
 >pointer will only move down when I direct it upwards
 >or downward.  Right/left motion is fine.
 >I've noticed a gradual decay of its behavior over the
 >past week where it would move the pointer only down
 >sometimes, but now it seems stuck in the downwards
 >mode.
 >Is anybody familiar with this problem?  Is it just the
 >untimely death of my ST mouse?  Is it a virus?

I had this problem a while back.  It wasn't a virus, just a dirty mouse.

Turn your mouse over on it's side with the connecting cable pointed away from
you.  Open the door that's on the bottom by sliding in towards you.  Remove
the door.  Pop out the mouse 'ball' by rotating the mouse right side up and
letting it fall out.  Rotate the mouse back on it's back again.  If you look
inside you'll see two shiny metal 'rolling pins', one's at the top, the other
on the left side.  More then likely, there'll be something 'wraped' around the
upper 'rooling pin' that's blocking it from moving.  Remove it with a tweezer,
drop the ball back in, replace the door, flip the mouse over and give it a
try.  If this doesn't work, you may have to open the case of the mouse and
remove dirt/dust/lint from there.

If that doesn't fix the mouse, you may have a broken wire, which means it's
time to buy a new one.  <sigh>


 * Origin: FlightLine PointNet  (1:282/47.1)

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 16:58:20 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.ed
 u!osiris![e-mail] (dave davis)
Subject: Phasar Upgrade Contact Wanted
To: [e-mail]

I recall seeing a recent post about problems with some of the earlier versions
of Phasar 4.xx.  I have one of these programs and am looking for a contact to
get a later version without bugs.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
What is the cost (if any) to upgrade from 4.01 to the current version?
Thanks.

dave
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 16:39:15 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!ol
 ivea!isc-br![e-mail] (Michael Albo)
Subject: ST Hard Drive for Sale
To: [e-mail]

HERE IS WHAT IS LEFT:


- Supra 30 Meg Hard Drive
         This has a 3.5" SCSI drive in it.             $300 OR BEST OFFER
         This is a nice drive with only about 100
         hours on it. Full Documentation and close
         to the latest formatting software.



- Software:
          - 1st Word Plus 3.14
          - Dac Easy Accounting
          - Printmaster
          - 2 Printmaster Libraries
          - Degas
          - Regent Spell
          - ST Copy
          - Raid (debugger)
          - ST Color Book
          - Backup (hard drive backup from Michtron)
          - Fleet Street Publisher Version 1.1
          - a few games (OutRun, Crimson Crown etc.)

                                                          $40  FOR ALL OF THE
                                                          REMAINING SOFTWARE


Terms are C.O.D. and the buyer must pay shipping.



Michael Albo

[e-mail]  (ISC-Bunker Ramo Corp.)

[phone] (home)

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 15:00:36 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!zaphod.mps.o
 hio-state.edu!van-bc!jonh.wimsey.bc.ca![e-mail] (John Henders)
Subject: TT prices Now
To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]>, Richard Covert writes:
>
>
>Knut, your points support my position that many things are possible
>for the STe/TT, but they aren't always available here in the Third
>World Country called America!!
>
        And later on in the same message writes:
>
>Now you lucky German folks can read German so Turbo C might be
>great for you. But it is yet another example of why the STe/TT
>are failing here in America.
>

        Yes, how clever the Germans are. Even the children can speak
and read German ;-}.
        Perhaps, Richard, you'd encounter less hostility on the net
if you used the distribution line to limit your postings to the
U.S.A. I won't insult a Unix programmer with so much experience
by explaining how this is done.


--
                John Henders            [e-mail]
                Vancouver,B.C

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 15:40:20 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
 ![e-mail] (John Paul Pietrzak)
Subject: Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Covert) writes:
>
>You can add upto 30 megs of RAM to the Mac IIci just by adding the SIMM
>chips.

Now, Richard, you were comparing Atari and Apple machines at the same
price level.  If you start adding SIMMs and HD space to the Apple, the
Apple becomes more expensive...

>>Hmm, perhaps you could get by with TeX?  GhostScript?  PSfig?  Nroff/troff/
>>eqn/tbl/etc. ?  Although not nearly as nice and graphical as PageStream
>>or Calamus, they can get the job done.  And, you can always boot the
>>machine up in TOS mode if you really need to.
>>
>>John "Don't sneeze at Unix (ah.. Ah.. AH-CHOOO :)" Pietrzak
>
>But John you don't have to buy a TT to run these programs. Buy any
>80386/80486 and add Dell's UNIX or SCO Xenix and you can run these
>programs. Or buy a SPARC or a Mac with A/UX. the presence of these
>programs on the TT/ASV does not justify buying the TT/ASV system!!

1) I personally have a bias against 80x86 systems. Although the price is
right, the Unix you get usually isn't quite BSD or AT&T compatible; and
the systems often have an emphasis towards buisness rather than development,
so (for example) multi-user databases will more often be part of the
package you get, rather than compiler, interface, and other development
tools.

2) Sparcs and Macs cost more than a TT.  An important difference.  :)


>Its funny how people can accept the unacceptable whenever it comes to
>Atari computers. I mean, if someone said that the ONLY sw available
>for a specific computer was some obscure PD stuff, would you rush
>out to buy that computer?

<gasp> Are you slighting the name of such programs as TeX or GNU freeware? :)
(I have to defend the honor of TeX, my boss did some work with Leslie
Lamport of LaTeX fame.  (How about that for name-dropping? :) ))
No, I would not rush out to buy a computer for PD software which is
available on almost any machine.  But I would rush out to purchase a
low cost Unix workstation.  I like Unix; I wouldn't mind having it
at home!

John "Aw, Richard, please just go back to your RS/6000 and ignore Atari;
you can probably afford better, unlike me" Pietrzak

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 16:39:02 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!rusmv1!ttin
 [e-mail] (Markus Wenzel)
Subject: Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Covert) writes:
>Atari always seems to have an Ace up their sleeve when you get
>disillushioned about their current products. It is funny how the
>"Next Atari computer' is going to be the Wonder Of The Century.
I must admit that this is not entirely untrue...

>But then when it comes out, if it comes out, it is years late,
>and behind the others in tehcnology. The TT's color graphics are
>at least 2 years behind those on a decent PC clone. and the TT's
The OS of a decent PC clone is decades behind anything else!

>dual bandwidth (is it 16Mhz or is it 32MHz) shows that Atari really
>didn't know how to design a FAST CPU in the first place. The TT
>was originally designed to run at 16MHZ, including all of the PALSs
>and ASICs. But by the time the TT was ready to be released, once
>again years late, even Atari realized that a 16MHz TT wouldn't sell
>at the TT's project prices. So they did a quick patch and doubled
>the CPU's clock rate. But Atari didn't want to delay the TT any longer,
>so they didn't change the rest of the TT. Hence, part of the TT runs
>at 32MHz and part at 16MHz.
However, I cannot complain about the speed of programs working in Fast RAM,
and all programs with much computing (e.g. TeX) _work_ in Fast RAM. In my
opinion, they could have left out ST RAM at all, but for some applications
the upgrade compatibility is quite useful (Spectre...Hey Dave, when will
YOU get Fast RAM going ? :-)

>A real prefession design? Huh? Nope, just another Atari kludge!
Do you think this is a serious problem?

>
>So Atari is always promising the next machine ass a solution to the
>bugs in the current machines. Atari's policy on upgrades is to dump the
>current buggy machine and buy their next buggy machine. Real clever
>marketing that!!
I cannot find anything buggy on my TT. I never worked with a more stable OS,
in fact. It is not the most comfortable, but not the least, either. If they
bring out a multitasking TOS next year, I have no more wishes.

>>>3) The TT030 is overpriced.
>>
>>Look at mac prices and shut up.
>
>You can buy a new Mac IIci with A/UX for the same price as a TT030
>with say 20 megs of ram and their ASV package. And with the Mac IICi
>you can run A/UX in color. Try that with the TT030/ASV combo. Of course,
>these prices are USA prices. I don't know what the relative costs
>are in Europe.
Vice versa. Look at 'Re: TT prices' for further details.
Germany seems to be the TT Mekka.

>>>TT030 is just a fancy games machine !!).
>>
>>No comment to that ...
>>
> The above comment was meant as a tease against folks who take their
>TTs too seriously. I guess no one understood that though!! Poor joke,
>I guess. But everyone knows that Atari are just game machines!!
And everbody knows by now your attitude concerning TTs and ASV. I think,
there will be many users out there using ASV very seriously. And don't
forget: "/games - the real reason we buy computers!"

>>>sincerely yours for the flaming
>>No problem, we all know you, Richard!! :-)
There's nothing to add.


* /dev/                Markus Wenzel, University of Stuttgart  *
* /usr/spool/mail/     [e-mail]             *
* /usr/voice/private/  [phone]                       *
* /bin/ps -l           TT admin on rusmv1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de *
* /etc/motd            >> We'll meet in /dev/null ...8-) <<    *

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End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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