Media Share 9

home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search

/ Media Share 9 / MEDIASHARE_09.ISO / mag&info / anr9301.zip / 9301LANG.ANR < prev next >

Wrap

Text File | 1993-04-04 | 45KB | 983 lines

---------------------------------------------------------------------- (3) Sat 2 Jan 93 8:57p By: Earl Appleby To: Mike Adams Re: Language St: Local ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike, I've found the general discussion on language informative. While I'm hardly one to be on the fence on most any matter, I've found that all the contributors, particularly, Tim Maxwell and you have raised points worth pondering. > But there's an essential mistake being made here in my opinion. What has the disability got to do with the occupation in the first place? Why couple the two together? Unless it bears some particular relevance to the matter at hand, I think you are quite right. Where it does not, "a disabled physician" is, at best, a akin to "a lady lawyer," at worst, to "an Irish drunk." Since the American Medical News article was discussing disability issues, the fact that Dr. Madorsky is a physician who has disabilities is not entirely irrelevant. Since it is germane, however, would it not be more informative to give us some idea of the nature of her disability? If I were reading someone's observations on the Maastricht treaty, for example, I would find the fact he was European pertinent but to tell me he is French or German would be more helpful yet. EA> ...a bigot remains a bigot whatever he calls us... > True. Bigots generally are like leopards. They don't tend to change their spots, and they need to be left in the jungle as far from civilization as possible. Indeed, a civilization dominated by bigots IS a jungle, however, sophisticated its tools. Ironically, while jungles are declining in economically underdeveloped nations, the jungle of social Darwinism is increasing in economically advanced (but morally underdeveloped) nations. > Unfortunately, we've all got a little bit of the bigot in us. An important point, Mike. That's why an examination of conscience is good for the soul. I do not wish to discriminate against human beings but I do wish to discriminate against anti-human philosophies such as ablism (and its exterminative arm--euthanasia). I do not wish to be a bigot, but far less do I wish to be neutral in the struggle to prevent civilization from returning to the jungle. As you note so wisely, Mike: > We're only a hair's breath from total chaos in the world we live in Earl. Society and civilization break down far more quickly than we like to acknowledge when the circumstances are just right. That's why it's important to keep a watchful eye on issues such as this. There are always going to be those who believe any human being who is not perfect has nothing to offer, though those same folks would never recognize their own imperfections. An old labor song asks, "Which side are you on?" If language is perceived as a code word for values, and in such matters perception is often reality, I can only hope my language enhances the humanity of civiled men and women. For language is no more neutral than ideas. In any language, here's wishing you the best, Earl --- * Origin: ABLEnews...your comments are welcome here. (1:262/4) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (27) Sun 3 Jan 93 11:30a By: Mike Adams To: Tim Maxwell Re: More Than ABLE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TM> Words are the vehicle of imagination, like a spell, they can have quite an effect on people. It doesn't matter if its a formula (E=MC2) or a name/label, it has the ability to affect people in ways beyond our current ability to forsee. I completely agree with you. Words are the vehicle of imagination. They do affect people, and people do react to them. That's the point I've been making all along. That's why I think the word games that are being played will backfire. TM> I agree it does take action, but I think you have underestimated the effect of a well planned action or movement with the "Words" carefully chosen. After all words have no life of their own, no innate power,without, the concerted actions (or thoughtless actions) of PEOPLE. People always come first, in truth the words should reflect that, and to the degree that they don't, discord, lies, hate, and death usually follow. If advertising is all that matters, it's more important in my mind to concentrate on showing positive examples, Tim. The word games detract from the issues in my opinion. * Origin: Majik Shoppe BBS (405-482-2536) DHST (1:19/10) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (39) Tue 5 Jan 93 11:52a By: Paul Shankland To: Tim Maxwell Re: More than able ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TM> The sweeping DOES happen, motivated by Greed and a wish for power, I've seen it up close, first hand. The opening tactic is up for grabs, Divide and conquer is ever popular, the methods of Machiavelie are used with finesse, still, there is usually a starting point. Perhaps its a "Questionare" purported to be the "chance to speak out on the issues most affecting your------- (fill in the disABILITY) , the results are used to categorize the people hwo are confederates, from those who can be bought, and to provide a list of those who should be "Stonewalled". A well known attempt at world domination started in the back of a bar, with the purchase of a disreputable newsletter (too small to be rightfully called a newspaper.) This provided the vehicle for written (WORDS) attacks on minorities (including people with disABILITIES) in an effort (Quite successfull) to direct blame and hate at them. Needless to say the overall effort failed, but in the process people like me and you were forced to wear, and were BRANDED or TATTOOED with labels (WORDS). The people who did this could care LESS about what the labels were, they were "Just doing their jobs", but it would have been far harder to kill so many millions of people if, in the very BEGINNING, ther were people who didn't allow the "Naming" issue to go unchallenged. Hey even if it resulted in a FRACTION of the millions who died to be saved, it would have been worth it. Words are the vehicle of imagination, like a spell, they can have quite an effect on people. It doesn't matter if its a formula (E=MC2) or a name/label, it has the ability to affect people in ways beyond our current ability to forsee. I think if you could speak to those who went through this type of thing, I am sure you will find MANY examples of those who did not "allow it to happen", sadly many of those who would agree did not survive. Never Forget. TM> I agree it does take action, but I think you have underestimated the effect of a well planned action or movement with the "Words" carefully chosen. After all words have no life of their own, no innate power,without, the concerted actions (or thoughtless actions) of PEOPLE. People always come first, in truth the words should reflect that, and to the degree that they don't, discord, lies, hate, and death usually follow. Very well said. I hope you don't mind if i print this out and spread it around. Joy Paul, Indianapolis * The results of IQ tests are always negative. * Origin: Project Enable - Dunbar, WV (ADAnet 94:3040/1) (FidoNet 1:279/14) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (53) Tue 5 Jan 93 3:24p By: Tim Maxwell To: Mike Adams Re: More Than ABLE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MA> If advertising is all that matters, it's more important in my mind to concentrate on showing positive examples, Tim. The word games detract from the issues in my opinion. Thats what you have said, but thats what is known as an "Ideal". Ideally words should not be an issue in the matters of our lives. They DO detract from actually being there. *TREE* You see this word, and you may react in many ways, if you are sighted you may visualize a forest with one prominent tree in the forground. If you are Hearing you may remember the sound of "openness" and the presence of an object that creaks and rushes with the winds speed. BUT... THATS NOT A TREE, and thats not an experence firsthand with a tree, you can test this by going out and checking out the nearest tree. It doesn't even come close. Yet the words may prompt you to look closer, or bring to your attention an aspect that you really never noticed. (And if you don't know about Willows, a "Word" to the wise about the "Widdowmakers" that exsist in the upper branches may prevent you from being KILLED) Look, I know that words are often a nuisance, but, like it or not, they affect many in this world. Disturbingly, the words and appearances of people DO affect the outcome of elections, and are often the prime motivators of people to do, or NOT do, things to make the lives of Persons with disABILITY more meaningfull and even affect the ability to LIVE for many. To ignore this fact, and I have seen countless examples of both of the examples above, is to allow the unrestricted manipulation of all of us. I can sympathize with your fears of "word games," but it is not realistic to ignore the affect that words DO have on our situation. I find it hard to ignore the so called "Games" when the words that are often NOT used, are the words that describe the results of innocence, words like "Steamroller," "Stonewall," "Renewal,"(used to flatten oposition,) "Handicap", "patient", "Dumb", "Mentally handicapped," etc. Your attitude about actions are laudable, but you can hardly expect actions to be known about without the "Words" being there to describe the action. Truth is, most movements that I know about started on words and continued on actions. To use one without the other is to waste time and limit our efforts. In the end these really aren't "Games" we play with words, they are the banners of our causes and actions. * If you don't speak out now...."THEY" will speak for you! * Origin: Access BBS * Ballston Spa, NY * 518-885-4192 (1:267/136) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (66) Wed 6 Jan 93 5:47p Rcvd: Mon 11 Jan 10:33p By: Mike Adams To: Earl Appleby Re: Re: Language St: Rcvd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EA> I've found the general discussion on language informative. While I'm hardly one to be on the fence on most any matter, I've found that all the contributors, particularly, Tim Maxwell and you have raised points worth pondering. I think the discussion has been very enlightening myself, Earl. One of the values of forums such as this is to allow people the opportunity to share their opinions and points of view. We may not always agree, but we do learn from each other. > Unfortunately, we've all got a little bit of the bigot in us. EA> An important point, Mike. That's why an examination of conscience is good for the soul. True enough, Earl. We all have opinions, but it's always essential that we take a step back and take a look at ourselves as objectively as we can. That's not always an easy task, but forums like this help us identify when we may need to do that self-examination. EA> In any language, here's wishing you the best, Best wishes to you as well, Earl. The language we use is important, but it's the final communication which is important. It's always a pleasure chatting with you. * Origin: Majik Shoppe Point 1 (1:19/10.1) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (69) Fri 8 Jan 93 10:04a By: Paul Shankland To: Tim Maxwell Re: More than able ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was originally addressed to MIKE ADAMS and a carbon copy was sent to you. ---------------------------------------- TM> Words are the vehicle of imagination, like a spell, they can have quite an effect on people. It doesn't matter if its a formula (E=MC2) or a name/label, it has the ability to affect people in ways beyond our current ability to forsee. MA> I completely agree with you. Words are the vehicle of imagination. They do affect people, and people do react to them. That's the point I've been making all along. That's why I think the word games that are being played will backfire. TM> I agree it does take action, but I think you have underestimated theeffect of a well planned action or movement with the "Words" carefully chosen. After all words have no life of their own, no innate power,without, the concerted actions (or thoughtless actions) of PEOPLE. People always come first, in truth the words should reflect that, and to the degree that they don't, discord, lies, hate, and death usually follow. MA> If advertising is all that matters, it's more important in my mind to concentrate on showing positive examples, Tim. The word games detract from the issues in my opinion. On the news I heard that "a disabled tanker is spilling thousands of gallons of oil off the coast of..." What did the disabled doctor spill? cc: Tim Maxwell * The results of IQ tests are always negative. * Origin: Project Enable - Dunbar, WV (ADAnet 94:3040/1) (FidoNet 1:279/14) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (142) Sat 23 Jan 93 8:13p By: Earl Appleby To: Paul Shankland Re: More than able St: Local ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi, Paul, In a recent message to Mike Adams you asked.... > On the news I heard that "a disabled tanker is > spilling thousands of gallons of oil off the coast of..." > What did the disabled doctor spill? The beans? Cheers, Earl * Origin: ABLEnews...ask for us by name. (1:262/4) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (75) Fri 8 Jan 93 12:16a By: Tim Maxwell To: Paul Shankland Re: More than able ---------------------------------------------------------------------- No problem, you can spread this around as much as you want, if, you clean up any typos and don't change it. Tim * If you don't speak out now...."THEY" will speak for you! * Origin: Access BBS * Ballston Spa, NY * 518-885-4192 (1:267/136) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (76) Fri 8 Jan 93 7:15a By: Mike Adams To: Tim Maxwell Re: Words ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TM> Truth is, most movements that I know about started on words and continued on actions. To use one without the other is to waste time and limit our efforts. In the end these really arn't "Games" we play with words, they are the banners of our causes and actions. The tree example was interesting, Tim, but I think we're both just bouncing words off each other without resulting in a change in attitude, which effectively demonstrates my premise that actions are more powerful than the words. The games we're both playing with the words are wasted efforts. I continue to believe the movement to play with our language is ultimately doomed to failure. * Origin: Majik Shoppe Point 1 (1:19/10.1) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (95) Sun 10 Jan 93 8:39p By: Marilyn Johnson To: All Re: Language ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Earl! In the discussions between Mike and Earl and Tim on introducing people with disabilities. EA> I've found the general discussion on languageinformative. While I'm hardly one to be on the fence on most any matter, I've found that all the contributors, particularly, Tim Maxwell and you have raised points worth pondering. But there's an essential mistake being made here in my opinion. What has the disability got to do with the occupation in the first place? Why couple the two together? Unless it bears some particular relevance to the matter at hand, I think you are quite right. Where it does not, "a disabled physician" is, at est, a akin to "a lady lawyer," at worst, to "an Irish drunk." Since the American Medical News article was discussing disability issues, the fact that Dr. Madorsky is a physician who has disabilities is not entirely irrelevant. Since it is germane, however, would it not be more informative to give us some idea of the nature of her disability? You are so right! Many of the disabilities have negative connotations, as in your example of the "Irish drunk." Alcoholism, addiction, and communicable diseases such as T.B.,& AIDS, are currently granted "disability" status. And in some sections of the country, these examples are far more visible than other "visible" disabilities such as wheelchair users or those connected to portable oxygen systems to allow then freedom of movement. There are many "invisible" disabilities that most people have no awareness of (many cases of emphasema, urinary incontinence, chronic fatique syndrome--to a passerby-not spouse!) So the overall *image* of disability is negative. Would you believe the image is so negative that the federal government called for new terminology? The winner? We are "Differently abled" now, not disabled. But I fear it will gather the same connotations if those of us with disabilities don't "come out of the closet" and let others see that we are humans with value to give--we all have a strength if we will look for it. Sometimes we need encouragement from others to show it, but often it is hidden if others refuse to believe it is possible. They will believe it is possible only when others start to show it! And bigots will refuse to see the evidence. EA> Indeed, a civilization dominated by bigots IS a jungle, however, sophisticated its tools. Ironically, while jungles are declining in economically underdeveloped nations, the jungle of social Darwinism is increasing in economically advanced (but morally underdeveloped) nations. Some we may feel are bigots aren't really--they just haven't seen any examples to change their opinion. And in these hard economic times, many are scared and protective of their territory in the only way they can be. While downgrading others makes them feel good, it usually makes others feel less of them, (unless the group needs a scapegoat, which is increasingly true today.) You can "fight on your own block," but you can't do much about about the government helping companies moving your jobs overseas or to Mexico. The citizens of the Euorpean nations are being allowed to vote on Maastrickt, but we are not being allowed to vote on "free trade" and/or a "value added tax" like Britain has. If you couple free trade with that value added tax, corporations will surely move. We cannot fight that. We can just vent frustration and hate on anyone different from us--race, immigrant, handicap, lifestyle. We need to do two things: 1) Get out of the closet and admit our differences while being competent in what we do (I'm one to talk--have always worn long pants to cover up my braces!) and 2) figure out how we can make our country--and its people--keep their sense of self-worth. If ego depends on a job with good pay, then we must figure a way to either make that possible (and not by gift! Something not earned is not appreciated by the recipient and is hated by those surrounding the recipient!), or devise another way to measure and express self-worth. It must be *self-worth*, a *personal* pride. A bystander at the games--football now and the areana in Rome--won't do. When people feel good about themselves, they can feel good about others. EA> As you note so wisely, Mike: MA> We're only a hair's breath from total chaos in the world we live in Earl. Society and civilization break down far more quickly than we like to acknowledge when the circumstances are just right. That's why it's important to keep a watchful eye on issues such as this. There are always going to be those who believe any human being who is not perfect has nothing to offer, though those same folks would never recognize their own imperfections. Well, Mike indicated society can turn savage rather rapidly. All this stuff about language is about acceptance. If we can get others to feel genuine pride and acceptance (not the phony stuff!) then we may prevent the breakdown he just described. It is scarey to see how the genocide originated in Germany. So how do we accomplish what we want instead of _complaining_ about the injustice that we see? Any ideas, anyone? EA> An old labor song asks, "Which side are you on?" If language is perceived as a code word for values, and in such matters perception is often reality, I can only hope my language enhances the humanity of civilized men and women. For language is no more neutral than ideas. Right on! I don't see how someone can think without a language to think with, so attention to language is an important first, and ongoing, step. Language alone, however, will not solve the problem. "Feeling good" without a basis for it never works well either (look at the poor performance of schooling when teachers don't want to correct poor work for fear of "damaging self esteem." It's like playing checkers with your dad when you were a child. If you knew he was letting you win, you felt he thought you were no more than a little kid and felt worse about it than if you had lost. Adults _don't like to feel like they are being treated as children_, so quotas in hiring are counter productive to self esteem as well as generatating scapegoats for those not able to take advantage of them! So what are the tools out there? Help, help, help--- Marilyn, PPP (a progressingly paraplegic pharmacist) * Origin: 221B Baker Street * Panama City FL * 904-871-6536 (1:3608/1) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (103) Tue 12 Jan 93 3:57a By: Tim Maxwell To: Marilyn Johnson Re: Language ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MJ> Some we may feel are bigots aren't really--they just haven't seen any examples to change their opinion. We need to do two things: 1) Get out of the closet and admit our differences while being competent in what we do (I'm one to talk--have always worn long pants to cover up my braces!) and 2) figure out how we can make our country--and its people--keep their sense of self-worth. So how do we accomplish what we want instead of _complaining_ about the injustice that we see? Any ideas, anyone? Two views: People with disABILITY are often discriminated against. The best possible solutions to a particular situation must be the PERSONS choice, if and when they reveal their abilities, we must learn to trust peoples sensitivities regarding the daily situations they find themselves in, not doctors, politicians, or well meaning family members or friends. Though these persons can give support, they often have their own agendas. The PERSON usually has the best views lets support and encourage them. Having said that, I must agree that (Bigots aside) CONTACY, on a daily basis is REQUIRED to desensitize the public at large. Our infrastructure MUST reflect accessability to begin to minimize the DISabilities and begin to allow the ABILITIES to show. An example: I was stationed in Hawaii for two years with the military (lucky stiff,) long enough to begin to adapt to the tropical dress and attitudes. Many people there had NEVER seen or walked in the cold or snow in their LIVES. A sign of this was the almost complete absence of signs (and attitudes) condemning the practice of not wearing shirts(Men usually) shoes and underwear(men and women). It was truely amasing to this northern bred person, you could go almost anywhere, even the BEST restaurants or shows, and shoes were not required. Sandles in fact were the rule. Knowing that in our northern area, shoes and shirts are required for many establishments, and being aware of some of the reasons pandered about (Health code violation? Unsanitary?,) I asked a couple of natives what they thought. Some said it just never occured to them (having little if any contact with Persons with shoes), why should it? Others expressed the viewpoint that wearing shoes actually was an UNHEALTHY ACT, similar to wearing gloves all the time may be viewed. What I am getting at was and is still true. If with our WORDS or ACTIONS we don't begin to include people of all types (including People with disABILITIES),we will continually be faced with the attitudes of "oddity" that keep ALL people from living together as one. INCLUSION IS THE WORD TO LIVE BY. ACCESSABILITY IS THE WAY WE DO IT!!! * If you don't speak out now...."THEY" will speak for you! * Origin: Access BBS * Ballston Spa, NY * 518-885-4192 (1:267/136) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (128) Sat 16 Jan 93 7:08p By: Marilyn Johnson To: Tim Maxwell Re: Accessibility ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TM> INCLUSION IS THE WORD TO LIVE BY. ACCESSABILITY IS THE WAY WE DO IT!!! Wow. Strong and true. Further thoughts: Once we have visibility, how do we project the best image? How do we project our ABLEness, compassion, and "normality"? After all, when seen, the viewer sees the whole person--language and body language included. We must not be a "patsy," but must be comfortable to be around. Otherwise, the inclusion will dissipate--. Thanks for responding and TTYL, Marilyn * Origin: 221B Baker Street * Panama City FL * 904-871-6536 (1:3608/1) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (133) Mon 18 Jan 93 3:15a By: Tim Maxwell To: Marilyn Johnson Re: Accessibility ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MJ> How do we project our ABLEness, compassion, and "normality"? After all, when seen, the viewer sees the whole person--language and body language included. We must not be a "patsy," but must be comfortable to be around. Otherwise, the inclusion will dissipate--. When a car mechanic presents himself to you at a small out of the way gas station, way out in the middle of nowhere, the first thing that may strike you is his appearance. He (or She) may be a bit scruffy, oil on his hands, spattered on his clothes. His clothes may be functional, not too fashionable. He may seem to be somewhat of a "character" exibiting all sorts of "mannerisms". Yet, if you need to have some help, say, you are stranded, hit a pothole, damaged a wheel and received a flat tire. This person, who you don't know, and may likely never see again helps you. I mean he HELPS you, gives you sound advice, maybe your tire is ok, dosen't need to be replaced, and he tells you that, doesn't try to sell you an unneeded tire, the rim IS bad, he says he knows a friend who has a junk yard, he calls him, gets you a rim, and mounts the tire, even spin balances it for you. he then puts your car on the lift mounts the tire. When you ask how much he wants for this, he gives you the cost-$8.00 to fix the flat, $15.00 for the rim (its used but in good condition) thats it. the spin ballance is no charge. You pay him,and as you leave you may remember his mannerisms, but more than likely, as the years go past, you will remember him for his fairness, and maybe you wish that he lived just a little closer to you, HEY, good Mechanics are good to find. So you see.... in the end you will react to the way you were treated, by a person who helped you, and anything else will be insignificant. The point is, we may NOT always be comfortable to be around, but if there is a fair chance to participate in everyday life and work, the very fact of our inclusion will bring the results you are looking for. You will know when things are better, when you hear that a person "Robbed the local bank and fled in a wheelchair, and the police are STILL looking for him.( who said we are different from anybody else, not all of "US" are honest) but at least nobody put the disABILITY first, and that person was able to get where he wanted to go, for whatever reason. :^) It will happen some day, soon I hope. * Felicity: A town inhabited by happy cats. * Origin: Access BBS * Ballston Spa, NY * 518-885-4192 (1:267/136) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (138) Wed 20 Jan 93 1:07p By: Jim Stewart To: Tim Maxwell Re: Accessibility ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MJ> How do we project our ABLEness, compassion, and "normality"? After all, when seen, the viewer sees the whole person--language body language included. We must not be a "patsy," but must be comfortable to be around. Otherwise, the inclusion will dissipate. TM> When a car mechanic presents himself to you at a small out of the gas station, way out in the middle of nowhere, the first thing that may strike you is his appearance. He (or She) may be a bit scruffy, oil his hands, spattered on his clothes. His clothes may be functional, not too fashionable. He may seem to be somewhat of a "character" exibiting all sorts of "mannerisms". Yet, if you need to have some help, say, are stranded, hit a pothole, damaged a wheel and received a flat tire. This person, who you don't know, and may likely never see again helps you. I mean he HELPS you... You pay him,and as you leave yoU may remember his mannerisms, but more than likely, as the years go past you will remember him for his fairness, and maybe you wish that he lived just a little closer to you, HEY, good Mechanics are good to find. So see.... in the end you will react to the way you were treated, by a person who helped you, and anything else will be insignificant. As much as I like your enthusiasm and ideals, I hate to burst your bubble. Two years ago, on Labor Day, I had a flat on my van. We drove into a service station at a busy intersection and I got out in my wheelchair. Inside were two mechanics working on a car on the rack and another guy was pumping gas. I rolled over to the door and one of the mechanics looked at me. I asked if someone was around that could change the tire for me (I had a spare.) He just said, "Sorry, we're closed for the holiday." Apr 04 1993 13:00:44 I remember the two guys who just happened to pull in to get a soda and, very graciously, offered to change the tire and they wouldn't take any money for helping. I've boycotted that service station ever since. Jim * Origin: The Purple Rose of Cairo, Pok NY US (914)473-1697(1:272/58) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (161) Fri 22 Jan 93 5:34p By: Mike Adams To: Jim Stewart Re: Re: Accessibility ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JS> Two years ago, on Labor Day, I had a flat on my van. We drove into a service station at a busy intersection and I got out in my wheelchair. Inside were two mechanics working on a car on the rack and another guy was pumping gas. I rolled over to the door and one of the mechanics looked at me. I asked if someone was around that could change the tire for me (I had a spare.) He just said, "Sorry, we're closed for the holiday." I've boycotted that service station ever since. I hope you've also let others know which station it was so they could have a choice to do likewise. That's one of the best ways to deal with behavior of that sort. * Origin: Majik Shoppe Point 1 (1:19/10.1) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (178) Mon 25 Jan 93 4:14p By: Jim Stewart To: Mike Adams Re: Accessibility ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JS> Two years ago, on Labor Day, I had a flat on my van. We drove into a service station at a busy intersection and I got out in my wheelchair. Inside were two mechanics working on a car on the rack and another guy was pumping gas. I rolled over to the door and one of the mechanics looked at me. I asked if someone was around that could change the tire for me (I had a spare.) He just said, "Sorry, we just closed for the holiday." I've boycotted that service station ever since. MA> I hope you've also let others know which station it was so they could chose to do likewise. That's one of the best ways to deal with behavior of that sort. Every chance I get! * Origin: The Purple Rose of Cairo, Pok NY US (914)473-1697(1:272/58) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (162) Sat 23 Jan 93 3:36a By: Tim Maxwell To: Jim Stewart Re: Accessibility ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TM> When a car mechanic presents himself to you at a small out of the way gas station, way out in the middle of nowhere, the first thing that may strike you is his appearance... You pay him, and as you leave you may remember his mannerisms, but more than likely, as the years go past you will remember him for his fairness... JS> As much as I like your enthusiasm and ideals, I hate to burst your bubble. Two years ago, on Labor Day, I had a flat on my van. We drove *------------------* Sorry Jim you missed my point, although the example is a true one and happened to me. You see, the "Mechanic" in the above example was to represent a Person with disABILITY, and as an "example" this was to represent the things that people in general will remember after the fact. In the above example, dispite the persons appearance, the thing that will stick in the average persons mind (I suppose, from experience) is not the obvious difference of appearance or mannerisms, but the FAIRNESS (in my example) or, for that matter the UNFAIRNESS (as in your example). this principal holds true, even in your example, since you chose to relate the manner of these persons unfairness, and the results that you place first in inportance (the simple fact that you no longer do business with that establishment) The point of this example, was to put forward the idea that if People with disABILITY are able to be INCLUDED in the everyday lives of the general public, that the simple act of inclusion will force a change that will benefit everyone, This is clearly not the case now (most of the time, there ARE exceptions) the examples (both yours and mine) prove that what will happen, will be some problems with "appearances" at first, but the way the public will remember us, will be the result of OURSELVES and our innate fairness (or UNfairness) not the disABILITY itself. This can only come about through the sincere efforts of people who must be the "point persons" who by their actions pave the way for COMPLETE INCLUSION by EXAMPLE. They will come from the ranks of Advocates, employers, public personalities, workers, and many others, including Persons with disABILITIES themselves, they too must set an example of inclusion.(Yes, even a person with a disABILITY can discriminate aganst other People with disABILITY.) I'm not sure exactly WHY they do this, but the FACT that they do this is beyond dispute (i've witnessed this happen many many times) P.S. this was all in response to a persons question: what ACTIONS can we take NOW to change things. ___ X JABBER v1.01 X * Origin: Access BBS * Ballston Spa, NY * 518-885-4192 (1:267/136) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (177) Mon 25 Jan 93 12:55p By: Richard Webb To: Tim Maxwell Re: Accessibility ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Tim, In the message I am replying to, you state that people with disabilities will discriminate against others with disabilities, and you wonder why this is so. From my experiences, I have found that people with disabilities are a cross-section of the population, hence, the attitudes toward disabilities helld by the general public are held by the disabled, (How I hate that word) person. Therefore, forums such as this can provide a great service by educating the general public, and people with disabilities. Richard Webb * Origin: Karma *VS* Dogma (1:290/6) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (193) Fri 29 Jan 93 11:13a By: Tim Maxwell To: Richard Webb Re: Accessibility ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RW> From my experiences, I have found that people with disabilities are a cross-section of the population, hence, the attitudes toward disabilities held by the general public are held by the disabled, (How I hate that word) person. Therefore, forums such as this can provide a great service by educating the general public, and people with disabilities. Richard Webb Hmmm... good point. Let us not forget that when people in general are under pressure, "character flaws" often become more evident. Perhaps the insecure position that People with disABILITIES face results in a higher than average "Judas factor." That there is the need for more support is the reason why the person who is Sysop of this board, the one I think of as my "home board" operates an "Electronic Drop In Center," (her words.) * Origin: Access BBS * Ballston Spa, NY * 518-885-4192 (1:267/136) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (184) Thu 28 Jan 93 5:13p By: Earl Appleby To: Marilyn Johnson Re: Language St: Local ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello, Marilyn, Do you have any friends who procrastinate? Well, you do now! <grin> One of the reasons I haven't responded to your welcomed message of January 10 was because I wanted to do your thoughtful and thought-provoking observations justice. But as Disraeli said, "Justice delayed is justice denied." Still, before I start, I just want to thank you for all your posts here on ABLEnews. You have something (some things, actually) to say, and I'm very pleased that you are sharing it with us. MJ> You are so right! Many of the disabilities have negative connotations, as in your example of the "Irish drunk." ... So the overall *image* of disability is negative. Images are often created by image-makers who indulge in self-portraits, fantasies of life as their myopia imagines it to be. When my Dad lived with us at home in coma for nearly a decade, we could not convince one television documentary film-maker to film him. Why? Because Dad's was a message of courage and of hope and the image of coma and, therefore, of those living in coma must always be painted in the darkest colors of despair. MJ> Would you believe the image is so negative that the federal government called for new terminology? The winner? We are "Differently abled" now, not disabled. But I fear it will gather the same connotations if those of us with disabilities don't "come out of the closet" and let others see that we are humans with value to give-- I fear it will gain those connotations any way or be mocked as "PC" who are "EW" (ethically wrong) on disability rights. It is not that I disagree with you about the need for assertiveness, Marilyn. Au contraire, our CURE activists are infamous for their assertiveness <grin>. It is just that I refuse to blame the victims of prejudice for the bigoted attitudes of their victimizers. MJ> we all have a strength if we will look for it. Amen to that! True strength lies within the human spirit. My Dad is my hero and he was never more heroic than during the last ten years of his life. He didn't have to "do tricks" as his tormentors were wont to demand. His very survival demonstrated his inner strength, his will to live. MJ> Sometimes we need encouragement from others to show it, but often it is hidden if others refuse to believe it is possible. Exactly! There are none so blind as those who will not see. CURE was born in my Dad's struggle to proive just that encouragement to our brothers and sisters from those who have been there and believe all things are possible. MJ> They will believe it is possible only when others start to show it! And bigots will refuse to see the evidence. Well, I guess if we show them, we'll found out soon enough if they are bigots. I think the real ones we have to show are ourselves. A good friend of mine, who happens to be a doctor, says we must always do our best and leave the rest in God's hands. Of course, ashe says, it is important to actually *do* our best, not simply to *say* so. That's all any one can do, but how seldom we even try. EA> Indeed, a civilization dominated by bigots IS a jungle, however, sophisticated its tools...the jungle of social Darwinism is increasing in economically advanced (but morally underdeveloped) nations. MJ> Some we may feel are bigots aren't really--they just haven't seen any examples to change their opinion. By way of analogy, some said that if Christ would come down from the cross they would believe, etc., but they are generally regarded as taunters. As noted above, we'll see. But no man or woman should have to perform tricks to justify his or her existence or to be treated with respect and dignity. MJ> And in these hard economic times, many are scared and protective of their territory in the only way they can be. You have a point here, Marilyn. At a hearing before the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, some folks were playing the I'm-less-disabled-than-they-are card. Dr. David McClone, who fights so aggressively for spina bifida babies (as opposed to the Lorbers et al.), however, agreed with me that it would be tragic to succumb to the divide-and-conquer strategy of the "quality-of-life" cabal. MJ> We need to do two things: 1) Get out of the closet and admit our differences while being competent in what we do... With those two legs, you are well-balanced! There's nothing wrong per se with being different unless your difference is a desire to imitate Adolf Hitler, etc. MJ> (I'm one to talk--have always worn long pants to cover up my braces!) I once dated a woman who happened to be blind. She insisted on wearing glasses whenever we went out. When we were alone, she did not. As far as I'm concerned, she didn't need to. MJ> and 2) figure out how we can make our country--and its people--keep their sense of self-worth. Exactly! Not a worth dependent on other's images of them, particularly, the distorted images of bigots. I like the rest of your message, too, Marilyn <grin>. Thanks for sharing it with me, my... > PPP (perceptive pharmacist pal)! Cordial regards, Earl * Origin: You've got a friend at ABLEnews. (1:262/4)