GEMini Atari/GEMini_Atari_CD-ROM_Walnut_Creek_December_1993.iso/files/tt/tt_2/tt.txt

Text File | 1990-05-30 | 115.4 KB | 2,838 lines

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Topic 35        Sat Jun 10, 1989
R.MOYER1                     at 04:03 EDT
Sub: The Atari TT: 68030

Atari has announced it's new TT 68030 based Computer at COMDEX and Hannover in
recent months. This is a place to discuss TT, ask questions, or leave
comments.

217 message(s) total.
 ************
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 1         Sun Nov 19, 1989
S.NOAH                       at 18:30 PST

The new keyboard on the TT was great !  It was easily as good as anything on
any IBM machine that I have ever used, very nice. Will their be an  enhanced
keyboard ( more keys ) as is offered on the MAC and PS/2 ?
 Also the specs I just read in the previous message all looked correct , but
the TT model at the show was the desktop version which only had one half
height VME card.

 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 2         Sun Nov 19, 1989
TOWNS                        at 21:48 EST

 The TT030/2 that was shown at the show has ONE VME slot that is a Half-
 Height (Eurocard style). They are MANY cards available for this slot.

 I have demos that can demonstrate that the 320x480 mode does indeed
 display 256 colors. These demos were shown at the show (Anyone remember
 the Spyglass Magnifying Glass?)

 As for the keyboard, yes it is MUCH better. I like it even better than
 the MEGA keyboard. As for enhanced versions, not too sure yet.

 I didn't hear too many people comment on the case. Most people didn't
 say one way or another.

 -- john
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 3         Sun Nov 19, 1989
STACE [Mark]                 at 21:55 EST

OK John...you asked!

The TT's case design, as it was displayed at Comdex, is the ugliest thing ever
produced by any computer company in the history of computers.

The case is SO unattractive that it would possibly prevent me from buying the
thing!  (Heh...I just need ANY excuse NOT to spend three Gs!)

Mark
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 4         Sun Nov 19, 1989
NEVIN-S                      at 22:57 EST

I have heard only negative things about the case from day 1 when it was
displayed in Germany. The pictures do make it look horrible. I wonder who
designed this thing. Incredible. I hope they switch and just put the thing in
a normally shaped box. Is that too much to ask? If you want to make it
"different" then give the box a certain color, or make it sparkly or
something. But the look of the TT is horrendous.

   --Nevin
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 5         Sun Nov 19, 1989
ISD2 [Julius]                at 23:31 EST

...that reminds me... :-)

The position of the reset button was not much better than that on the Mega. It
is along the left side placed behind the cartridge, MIDI and Local Talk ports.
Worse than that, it is recessed so that a small baby finger is needed to push
it (if you are lucky).

To elucidate on the new keyboard.  The feel of the keys and size of the
keytops is good.  The three things that I didn't like is:  1) the top row of
keys, when depressed, go *below* the casing - broken or hurt finger-nail city.
2) the new function keys look really 'weak' - like you could break them if you
pressed too hard and they stick out and wiggle - giving the keyboard a really
cheap look.  3) the new placement of the mouse and joystick connectors...they
are now on the sides...besides getting in the way, remind me of Frankenstein
'bolts' (on the side of its head).  When I get a TT, I'm hooking up my Mega
keyboard...

And if the case stays, I know of several third-party folks that would be more
than happy to repackage the TT030/2 in a much more professional and computer
looking manner...  ;-)

Sort of reminds me of a song...  "Nice legs, shame about the face..."  :-)

Don't get me wrong...I *like* the machine...but someone needs some serious
learning in ergonomics and appearance when it comes to case design.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 6         Mon Nov 20, 1989
PSINC                        at 09:33 EST

It is simply bad marketing to release a high end computer product in such an
ugly case. Like putting a Corvette chassis under a Rambler.  For the price
people may be willing to overlook the case, but it is painfully obvious that
you're not spending much money.  I find it hard to believe that they went
ahead with the case, after finding the Germans hated it when it was a
prototype at the German show (many months ago).
  Mark
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 7         Mon Nov 20, 1989
TOWNS                        at 19:02 EST

 The RESET button is on the left side of the computer near the Cartridge
 Slot. The product models will have the RESET button further out so that
 you can push it much more easily. And remember, the keyboard resets are
 still present on TT machines (just like TOS 1.4).

 As for case design, all suggestions and comment have been noted. I plan
 to do a dump of this topic and send it off to Sam sometime soon.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 8         Mon Nov 20, 1989
C.DAYMON                     at 20:28 EST

John,
 I hope you'll also pass along how it would really help the machine to support
a 1024x768 color mode.  It is a real shame that a company that prides itself
on "Power without the Price" ignored the best deal in display technology.
With a Multisync 1024x768 color monitor, I could get a high-res display great
for CAD and DTP and still have all the lower color display resolutions
available.  (Much better than having to add $1500 to the price to get a good
CAD and DTP display.)

 I'll also put in a vote for a larger hard drive.  If this version of the TT is
capable of supporting Unix, it will have to have a larger HD. (And PLEASE!
make it fast.)

 Question:  I already have a moderately fast 50Mb drive.  Will a config be
available that will allow me to use this drive rather than being charged for
the one in the above mentioned package?

-Craig W. Daymon
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 9         Mon Nov 20, 1989
TOWNS                        at 22:50 EST

 I will answer your questions as best I can:

 1. Your suggestion about a higher-color resolution is noted. I will
    pass it along, but please remember.. This machine is planned for
    a First Quarter 1990 release date. That is coming up quickly.

 2. There is expandability in both the dual-purpose RAM and the FAST
    (Nibble Mode) RAM.

 3. At this point, We have introduced pricing on ONE version of the
    TT as mentioned earlier. I would assume that when the time is
    right, we will announce different versions.

 4. Atari DMA Hard Disks can be hooked up externally. There is also
    a SCSI port on the back of the TT.

 5. The suggestion for a larger hard disk is noted. Please look at
    Point Number 3 :-)

 Ok. I think I covered everything for now. The dump of messages from
 this topic is going to take some time! Serious volume here.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 10        Wed Nov 22, 1989
J.ALLEN27                    at 00:27 EST

I think the case is bad enough to make you want to sell it after the newness
wares off.....wait....Ah, in the background another Amiga TV ad came on, boy
is it slick...I don't think anyone will even know what a TT is, CBM will take
care of that...two more months of major market TV ads before the 15 million is
gone. How exactly will the world find out about the TT? What is Atari going to
do to get the message out...to the masses?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 11        Fri Nov 24, 1989
J.ALLEN27                    at 23:27 EST

Hey, where's Charles? Maybe he can answer that one Gordon. Fact is "if" I get
a TT you can bet your bippie it will get stuffed into a tower case with a
small VME backplne board.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 12        Fri Nov 24, 1989
TOWNS                        at 23:30 EST

 Atari will be making additional TT models available at some point in
 the future that will be Tower Configuration. The TT030/2 that you saw
 at COMDEX is just the first model.

 Does that answer your question, Gordon?

 -- John Townsend
    Atari Corp, Software Engine
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 13        Fri Nov 24, 1989
OUTRIDER [Terry May]         at 21:39 PST

John...

So is "TT" going to be the 'official' name, or is Atari still mulling over a
possible 'catchy' name for it?  I certainly hope they don't stick with the
"TT" name.  I even like "Mega Station" better, though that too leaves a lot to
be desired.

...Terry
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 14        Wed Nov 29, 1989
MAS2743                      at 23:27 CST

Well....all I can say that I heard someone in the RTC Conference saying that
TT are _real_ in the COMDEX show and I heard TOWN mentioned that he had TT's
running behind him while he was chatting in the RTC. So TT ain't mythical,
bud.

ATW is a parallel processor and I never see any Apollo workstation that uses
that kind of technology!  Hurray for Atari UK. Softwares comes next now....

To make you drool over the _new_ conceptual TT Tower Case design I  made for
Atari Corp. (I m just hoping that TT Designer will fall for it)  I will have
to write to Sam about it in lengthy details...

It LOOKS sleek, professional, slimmer than Apollo, Next, Mac IIci, Personal
Iris, and maybe Amiga.  I think you will like it, either in sideways or
upright or even just imagine that my design will sit fine in the normal "PC"
way (providing you make the grille facing on the desk).  It LOOKS really
attractive to me and to some of my friends on campus (grin and even some
Amigians seem to say "Well Amiga 3000 is better..." how could proof it
anyway....)    Try me, you will like my new TT case design. I am NOT talking
about the old, ugly-looking plastic, styrofoam, balsa, play-doh TT case as
shown in Germany last time.

Where?  It is in the Art Graphics area, #12975.  Any comments post it here.
Notice that you can place VMEBus card(s) in after removing the the "I/O Port"
cover panel in the back by sliding it out rearwisely. It is JUST my conceptual
stage and I hope they will like it...

What do you think of my design?

Of course, I/O ports need to be arranged much like NeXT Cube's ports rather
than on ST (vertical vs horizontal layouts) when it comes to Tower case.

The floppy drives (or even floptical drive) should be shown at the bottom of
the door (with Atari Logo and Label).  Inside the door, there should be some
kind of user-intervention, like System Reset, Tapeline Streamer, or pernament
secondary WORM drive, etc.   HD is inside the case under user's choice.  This
would be a neat arrangment to follow my case design.   My idea was a mixture
of Personal Iris plus Sun plus PC plus (believe it or not) Tektronics (grille
area) plus traditional ST and Mega.

Well.....(your turn now!) Mike
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 15        Sun Dec 03, 1989
TOWNS                        at 23:09 EST

 Well, if TT isn't real, then I am typing on the keyboard attached to a
 non-existant computer! Yes, they are real and we are working on getting
 them into the hands of consumers everywhere as soon as we can. However,
 we want to be sure that everything is OK before we release it. This
 means testing, testing, and more testing!

 So be patient. We are working on getting this machine out there. Believe
 me, we are not intentionally holding this machine back from release.

 -- John <I got my TT on Friday!> Townsend
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 16        Sun Dec 03, 1989
NEVIN-S                      at 23:17 EST

John, is it possible to answer whether 2 specific programs work on the TT at
this point? The two I am most interested in that have not been mentioned in
various reports are UltraScript and SuperBase Professional. Can you comment on
these two programs?

   --Nevin
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 17        Sun Dec 03, 1989
M.CATER [MARK CATER]         (Forwarded)

Besides speed and greater rez, what would be the other benefits of  running
Calamus on the TT vs the ST?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 18        Mon Dec 04, 1989
D.MCNAMEE                    at 18:16 EST

Nevin,

      Superbase works.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 19        Mon Dec 04, 1989
R.COVERT1                    at 18:24 MST

Yes, John congrats on your TT. You are making us all jealous!! Does Spectre-
GCR work on the TT?? Dave Small left a message on Usenet that he doesn't have
a TT so he can't test Spectre on it!!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 20        Mon Dec 04, 1989
TOWNS                        at 21:22 EST

 Dave Small is aware of the fact that GCR will not work on TT.

 As for SuperBase, I believe it has been tested. As for Ultrascript, I
 will try to find out and let you know. My SLM804 is still hooked up to
 my MEGA for now.

 It just to happens that I am still using a MEGA keyboard (Yes, you can!)
 due to the fact that the keyboards were samples and the production group
 wanted them back (or so I am told).

 Anyway, I really like it alot. It would be hard to go back to a MEGA
 after experiencing this speed difference. Amazing.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 21        Tue Dec 05, 1989
T.JOHNSON1                   at 20:20 PST

John, Any idea when a developer's kit for the TT will be finalized?  (I know,
this is a "non-technical" question, but I would like to know when the
differences between the TT and ST line will be down on paper so they can be
taken advantage of.)  I called Gail, and she said "they" were working on it.
Also, do you know if C compilers from say Mark Williams or Megamax will need
to be updated to create 68030 specific code or handle the new hardware calls?
(New screen rez, sound etc.) Todd
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 22        Wed Dec 06, 1989
TOWNS                        at 00:58 EST

 TT developer kits? Actually, I am not sure. I certainly hope that work
 is being done on this, but I don't know anything about them.

 Please remember that the TT runs TOS and so 90% of the information in
 the current developer's kit is accurate for programming the TT.

 As for C compilers, of course they will have to updated. All of the
 current C compilers on the ST generate 68000 code. This code with run
 on a 68030, but will not take advantage of the new instructions
 available. And the second part of your question goes as well. They
 will have to add support for new XBIOS calls, etc.

 However, some of the calls were enhanced as they are and we didn't need
 to create new calls. For instance, Getscreen and SetScreen, etc.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 23        Tue Dec 05, 1989
T.JOHNSON1                   at 22:52 PST

Thanks John. Did I hear it here or somewhere else, that the new TOS will
support a call that will return an error of some kind if your program is being
run on an ST and some valid response on the TT?  (I want my program to run on
both machines but I want it to be able to take advantage of the TT if it can.)
In other words, can I call some system routine that will let me know I am
running on a TT without causing a fatal error on earlier TOS versions and/or
STs? H  ave fun with your TT, is it a permanent addition, or do you just get
to beta test it for awhile? Todd
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 24        Wed Dec 06, 1989
DOUG.W                       at 03:08 EST

Yes, you'll be able to determine what type of machine you're on (if you were a
registered developer, you'd already know *grin* ).

--Doug
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 25        Wed Dec 06, 1989
J.ALLEN27                    at 21:23 EST

I think a compiler is available from Manx that will generate 030/882 code
right now for the ST/TT. It is just a generic 680X0 compiler and you set a
flag when running it.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 26        Sat Dec 09, 1989
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 08:51 EST

  John, have you tried Falcon or Fligh Sim on the TT? How do they run? Too
fast or better than the ST?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 27        Sat Dec 09, 1989
TOWNS                        at 17:27 EST

 Flight Simulator is MUCH faster and the graphics over smooth (for
 those Air Warrior players out there.. Air Warrior is GREAT on a TT)..

 I don't have Falcon and can't try it. I will check around and see if
 anyone else has tried it.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 28        Mon Dec 11, 1989
KESMAI                       at 12:24 EST

  Air Warrior just draws as fast as it can, and keeps track of REAL time to
handle the flight simulation. The faster the machine the more graphics we can
draw per second, so the smoother it will be. We don't at the moment even CARE
if its a TT or not, we just go as fast as the machine will let us. When the TT
comes out (and we get one, HINT HINT) we'll decide how best to support the new
graphics rezes. For the Mac II, for instance, we do have a separate version
because color is so very different than monochrome on the Mac. On the TT that
might not be necessary.
  Kelton
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 29        Sun Dec 31, 1989
ST-REPORT [CPU Report]       at 19:44 EST

TOWNS,

Any update on whether Atari will be replacing the "Coleco Adam"-like plastic
case that the TT030/2 appeared in at Fall/Comdex?

Also, has Sam Tramiel seen the proposal for the TT Tower Case that  MAS2743
uploaded to the ST Libraries, and what options has Atari considered for the
Cases (both Desktop and Tower) for the 68030 TT?

 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 30        Mon Jan 01, 1990
TOWNS                        at 01:52 EST

 The case design has not been changed and to my knowledge, Atari has
 no plans to change the design.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 31        Mon Jan 01, 1990
R.COVERT1                    at 18:30 MST

TOWNS,
  If the TT/UNIX machine ever comes out you will NEED coverage on University
and College campuses, so selling the Mega ST/Minix package will get Atari's
foot in the door, so to speak. And any additional sales of the STs in the USA
is most welcome. So, please try to encourage such sales. The TT/UNIX machine
could be a hot item on campus!! But you need to build some presence there
first!!!

rec
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 32        Tue Jan 02, 1990
ESHOOK                       at 14:36 EST

Atari would be interested in talking to any VAR that wanted to sell such a
system to college campuses. However, Atari does not have the internal
organization necessary to make such sales direct, nor does our dealer network.
  Elizabeth Shook
  Atari Corporation
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 33        Fri Jan 05, 1990
T.JOHNSON1                   at 18:33 PST

I just read in one of the European ST mags that the TT will have TOS, Unix and
DOS(IBM).  Any truth to this?  Or are they confused.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 34        Sat Jan 06, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     at 15:39 EST

They are confused. Very confused! No DOS.  Which mag was this?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 35        Sat Jan 06, 1990
ST-REPORT [CPU Report]       at 22:28 EST

Well, Insignia Software is reportedly porting SoftPC (their software IBM
emulator) to the 68030 TT, but it will probably be sold as an extra option
like the version of Unix for the TT will be, so....

TOWNS,

Does Atari plan to use an extended version of the TT030/2's case as the box
that the Unix-capable TT's will come in?

Also, has Sam Tramiel seen MAS2743's TT Tower Case proposal?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 36        Sat Jan 06, 1990
T.JOHNSON1                   at 21:10 PST

Bob, I read in another European mag that Atari has made the disk format of the
TT "IBM compatible for read/write"  maybe that was what confused the other
magazine's editor. Todd
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 37        Sun Jan 07, 1990
G.ANDERSON                   at 17:55 CST

I've heard different stories about the internal floppy for the TT. I know it
will accept the standard 360/720k formats, but is it 'state of the art' 1.4
Meg compatible like most '386 machines now offer?

Gregg
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 38        Mon Jan 08, 1990
TOWNS                        at 01:08 EST

 Some TT machines will have 1.44 Meg floppies. Which ones has yet to
 be determined. All I can tell you is that we have TTs in-house with
 1.44 Meg Floppies up and running under TOS.

 Jim.. What Subdirectory bug? Please tell me more so that I can
 investigate this..

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 39        Mon Jan 08, 1990
TOWNS                        at 21:43 EST

 Well, I had a copy of Quick Index 1.4 handy and decided to try it
 on the TT I am typing on now.. Here are the results:

 This test was done on a TT030/2 with 2 Megabytes of Dual-Purpose
 RAM (mainly for DMA use and Screen), 4 Megabytes of Fast Nibble-Mode
 RAM, and a 68030 running at 16Mhz. The Cache was ON. The program
 was run from the Nibble-mode RAM.

 CPU Memory:            538%
 CPU Register:          410%
 CPU Divide:            510%
 CPU Shifts:           1737%
 BIOS Text:             298%
 GEM Draw:              403%
 GEMDOS I/O:           2712%
 DMA Read:             4993%
 Disk (RPM)            3600

 Oh. I forgot.. I was testing the drive stats on a 40 MB HD with an
 access time of 28ms.

 I don't know if these numbers are any better than those stated
 previously, but they do represent a significant leap in speed over
 an ST and much more than twice as fast.

 BTW, For those that don't know about Quick Index, the basis of the
 test is that a Monochrome 520ST is 100% for all of the different
 tests. And this test was run in ST Monochrome Mode.

 Well, food for thought I guess.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 40        Mon Jan 08, 1990
NEVIN-S                      at 21:57 EST

John, is there any way you could run a quick test of UltraScript and tell us
if it works on the TT, and what the speed increase is on a sample postscript
file? That would be great. I have asked a few times (of various Atari
employees) but have heard nothing either way.

   --Nevin
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 41        Mon Jan 08, 1990
TOWNS                        at 22:40 EST

 I ran Ultrascript ST on my TT late last week at the request of one
 of the employees that you asked. I found that Ultrascript ST when
 run with the Cache ON or OFF bus errors.

 This could be an east or hard fix. Hard to tell at this point. I
 am planning to debug it and see if I can find the source of the
 problems.

 -- JOhn
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 42        Thu Jan 11, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 at 01:04 EST

 This month's issue of STart is on the news stands and gracing the cover:
 The TT030/2 (Why slash 2???)...
 I must admit that on second look, the TT case isn't so ugly after all...
 One question and a suggestion though (And I know there have been Very
 few suggestions... <GRIN>) Why the HD box built into the mold?  Will this
 model require the purchase of a HD to use it? (OK more then one question)
 As far as the design, it looks for the most part like a Mega ST.  The
 keyboard LOOKs like a MAJOR improvement though!  (My Mega's key board is
 great in a functional sense... but looks wise its somewhat toyish...) The
 TT keyboard looks very PC clone like (A strong selling point as absurd as
 that seems) and the function keys no longer sport that silly (and
 unnecessary) slant.  I was disappointed to see that the floppy is still
 an 800K version.
  As to my suggestion, drop the HD box in future units.  Also, is the
 platform that the CPU and HD rest on full of electronics, or does it
 just serve as a huge wedge of plastic?  If the latter... get rid of it.
 That would leave a very Mega like box that would look VERY nice on top
 of my megaFile 30... and that new keyboard... well it would be very
 nice!  Lets face it, the #1 buyer for the TT (at first at least) is
 going to be us ST owners... and we all (almost all) have Hard Drives.
 One other question: Will the TT monitor be usable by the ST?  In other
 words, could we finally have the all in one monitor (LOW-MED-HIGH) from
 Atari for our STs?  Is the TT undergoing FCC certification, yet?
  BOB et al the professionals:  You deserve a break.  Hang around the
 water cooler while the boss is away.  Tell him you ran things just fine.
 And let John Towns go on a vacation... send him to the movies (He liked
 BATMAN a whole lot last summer- get him a copy- I think TOS 1.4 and 1.6
 and 030 really prove that he's a hard worker.  Give him time to relax.)

  Psst... John... you PROMISED me a TT.  I waited in the ACME parking
lot
 all night and you never showed up.  I think Bob may suspect...  so make
 the drop off at the local K-mart.  I'll be standing near a woman named
 Helga.  Say to her, " the ST is hot-"  She'll respond, "yes... (Thick
 German accent here) but zee Tee-Tee is hotter!"  She'll then accept
 the TT... no questions.

 PS- no one else read the last paragraph except John @ Atari. (See
   TOWNS- your secret is safe!) (WHOOPS!)

 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 43        Thu Jan 11, 1990
TOWNS                        at 02:32 EST

 First, Jim.. You rub me the wrong way because you are supposd to be a
 business man. A person running a business that depends on Atari products
 to survive, but every chance you get, you do your best to slam us in
 public and not attempt to go through proper channels.

 It just doesn't make good business sense to slam and offend those people
 who produce the products your livelihood depends on! Take Tom Harker from
 ICD for example. If he finds what he sees to be a problem in a piece of
 systems software that we make, he will send me Email or give me a call.
 He doesn't get up in the Atari Corp. area and start up his Flamethrower.
 He handles the matter in a professional manner and this is why he
 commands my respect.

 As for your comments about PC disk structures, your comments were noted.
 I asked for information from you on this subject and I gathered this info
 to pass along to Alan Pratt for investigation. It is not being ignored.

 Please understand my comments above.. I am not asking you to stop being
 critical of Atari. I am simply asking you to report problems in a
 professional manner and in the proper way. This is not the place to
 do such things.

 As for caring.. the only reason I respond is for the same reason. I
 could easily slip back into the halls of Engineering and never be heard
 from again. Thankfully, I am not that type of person. I feel the info
 I gather from the networks for Atari use is valuable. It helps us to
 find problems and see what is happening in the real world.

 Anyway, I don't dislike Jim.. I just dislike the way he does things.
 I am sure that in person he is a very nice individual and talented too.

 Now, back to the TT topic:

 NOTE: The TT article in STart was unauthorized by Atari Engineering!
       We weren't contacted about it's content and there are several
       things that were reported on in the article that just aren't
       true anymore. Most of the false information was regarding the
       technical specifics on calls in the XBIOS and other deep inside
       info on TOS. The best advice I can give you is don't depend on
       anything you read in that article. It is all subject to change
       and some of it already has!

 Okay, now to answer some questions..

 Some models of TT will have 1.44 Meg floppies. It is too soon to tell
 which models will and which ones won't.

 The Hard Disk option is very useful. The TT doesn't require a hard disk
 to operate. You can use it with just floppies. However, the hard disk
 case will hold a 3.5 inch hard drive that hooks up internally to a SCSI
 connector. The hard disk section of the case is removable without
 actually disassembling the entire case. It requires the removable of
 one screw.

 The TT monitor will be a modified VGA type monitor. It will not hook
 up to the ST.

 <grin> I enjoyed the rest of your message, Paul. But, I thought I was
 supposed to meet you in the at the tee for the Ninth hole on the course
 at Golf Land! You mean I didn't give the TT to you? That wasn't you??
 Oh, no! <grin>

 -- John <I didn't like Batman the second time, now Indy and The Last
          Crusade.. I could see that over and over again!> Townsend

 PS. Actually, I have a GoldStar VGA monitor with a pretty big monitor
     stand and is fits perfectly over the Computer part of the case.

     BTW, for those that don't know.. The board runs the entire length
     of the case and is pretty dense. If would be VERY hard to shrink
     it down any further.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 44        Thu Jan 11, 1990
DOUG.W                       at 05:33 EST

The little "platform" on the TT acts as a resting place for the keyboard is
slid back onto it.  The platform has a groove and the keyboard has an
extrusion which fits snuggly into it.

--Doug
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 45        Thu Jan 11, 1990
ICDINC                       at 08:50 EST

John,  (blush)
   MY vote is for 1.44 Meg drives in all TTs.  I would hate to think
that software producers making "professional" packages for the TT only would
have to use  lower capacity formats.
   Reminds me of the 520 and all those SS drives you shipped.  We still
have to include 2 SS disks with our products instead of 1 DS version because
of that.

    BTW  I have met Jim and he is a nice, intelligent guy.

   - TOM -
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 46        Thu Jan 11, 1990
GRIBNIF                      at 19:00 EST

 This is off-topic, but worth mentioning. When discussing the idea of
 doing a Moniterm screen saver with one of the people who was contracted
 by Moniterm to design the card, he informed me that there is no sure way
 of knowing that the Moniterm card is installed and the monitor on. About
 all you can do is look at the memory at $C0000 and up and see if it's not
 in some sort of pattern (yeah, right). He wanted to put something in the
 card's address space that would let you recognize its presence, but
 Moniterm wanted to save a few cents and told him to leave it out.

 I'm sure that were there a reliable way of detecting it, Slavic would have
 included it in the driver. Even Calamus will do nasty things if you try
 to use the Second Screen option without the monitor connected and on.

 Dan
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 47        Thu Jan 11, 1990
DOUG.W                       at 22:15 EST

Dan, assuming nothing else was mapped at $C00000, you could write there and
see if it Bus Errors.

--Doug
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 48        Thu Jan 11, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     at 22:27 EST

By the way Paul,

The TT also has a ASCSI port, so you can connect your present drives. I had a
TT at Comdex, and the Monitor worked just fine sitting on top of the unit.
Don't just take my word for it, though. Ask Jim, he showed up and *maybe* even
trifled with the TT while I had my back turned.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 49        Thu Jan 11, 1990
C.DAYMON                     at 22:28 EST

Yes, I want to get a TT.  But someday.... I'd like to be able to run 1024x768
color on it.  Can I use one of the multisync monitors that support this
resolution with the TT?  Also, what sort of minimum config is Atari
recommending to properly support the Unix package?  (I want both ST and Unix.)
Has a GUI been selected yet?  I STILL wish a 1024x768 color mode had been
supported in the initial configuration.  The current monitors supporting this
type of display are the leading example of 'Power Without The Price'.  (Now
where have I heard that phrase before?) CAD, DTP and good desktop video all in
one.  It would have kept the TT strong in the market for another 5-7 years.
(That sounds like a nice stretch for a computer to me.)  Anyway,....  I still
want a TT, but it has to be a Unix capable box.  I'll comment once again that
Unix WILL BE the dominant OS for the next 10-15 years.  Get a good GUI on it
and offer it at a reachable price and you'll own the market.

-Craig W. Daymon
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 50        Thu Jan 11, 1990
TOWNS                        at 22:59 EST

 Doug is right. You could install a Bus Error handler and then attempt
 to write to the Moniterm's Screen memory. If you Bus Error, then you
 know that you do not have a card installed. However, as I discussed with
 Jim, the driver is a MONITERM product. They are responsable for the
 maintaining of the driver. Atari doesn't make any money off this driver
 at all. So, for fixes to this problem.. either make sure you have a
 card installed when you run the driver or ask Moniterm to fix the
 problem.

 The TT SHIFTER doesn't support 1024 x 768 mode. It does support a
 1280 x 960 monochrome mode. The hardware neccessary to display this
 mode is built in. No need for cards. You can hook up an appropriate
 monitor and away you go.

 As for GUI, sorry.. It's too soon to discuss any of this. Not to mention
 that I have nothing to do with UNIX on the TT and wouldn't know anyway :-)

 When the UNIX side of things is ready to show, they will be able to tell
 you all about what GUI and implimentation of UNIX is being done, etc.

 -- John

 PS. By "they", I mean the UNIX Development Team and it's associated
     marketing group.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 51        Fri Jan 12, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 00:52 EST

Yes all you had to do was trap the bus error when the card is missing exactly
the same way the OS traps the bus error when the blitter chip is not in the
system :-) A method obviously not unknown to Atari :-) I'll bug Moniterm,
maybe they'll drop the source onto GEnie!!!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 52        Fri Jan 12, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 00:56 EST

Oh yes, I did molest Bobs....TT and the monitor was sitting on top but the
nice fit precludes the use of a nicer tilt/swivel base, etc. What exactly is
wrong with the looks of the MacIIcx or SUN 3/60, why try and make a fashion
statement, just build a utilitarian computer. You know...Daaay Vware...Swfimm
Vware...Eveniking Vware :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 53        Fri Jan 12, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 at 23:29 EST

  John:
       So, in other words, the TT electronics are in the "CPU" box, and
 the platform under it (and under the Hard Drive box)? If so, then it makes
 sense that the TT can't be made more compact.  I thought that the
 underlying platform was only a platform; actually, it seems like a
 pretty good idea to fill that space with a hard drive, and the fact
 that its removable is good, too. (Might make an excellent place to put
 a disk file for those 3.5" floppies- be they 800K or 1.44M!)  Could
 the dimensions of the TT components be listed here?  Does the CPU box
 match the dimensions of the Mega CPU box?  If so, I would imagine that
 my MegaFile could fit on top of it and the "VGA-type" TT monitor over
 that.  By the way, on the monitor, would it be possible though for an
 adaptor to allow the TT monitor to be used with a Mega ST?  I know
 several people in the ST world are using Multisyncs with STs, so I was
 wondering.

       Its a pity that STart published info that is not official,
 especially since once that snowball STarts rolling, it somehow becomes
 Atari's fault.  I'll bet someone will blame Atari for "changing" the
 info described there in... and another rash of Atari bashing will
 probably result.  (And on that note, let sugar-crazed Amiga owners do
 the bashing, we don't need it-)  Still, you gotta admit, that is one
 nice picture on the front... and it was kind of neat to see my
 favorite desktop on an ST-emulating (stimulating) 68030 machine.  I
 only bought the mag for the color photo; the article seemed like a
 retread of the press releases from Germany.

       By the way- no, that was not me at the Golf Range!  Sheesh!  Now
 some bozo is running around with my TT!  At least Brodie (Or Mr. T)
 doesn't know... OK- this time, leave it at the Philly Intrnl Airport
 in a locker marked "NO TTs HERE!" while whistling the theme to
 "Goldfinger" and then... uh-oh... maybe posting our plans here is a
 very bad idea!  Tell me, did the fellow who got my TT have a "Fast
 Technologies" T-shirt on... and did he grumble something about a "Turbo
 TT"???  Jim???

 Cheers,
 Paul
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 54        Sat Jan 13, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 01:51 EST

Well since LT says that Mac accelerators don't work on the TT I guess someone
will have to soup up the TT. I have orders for a couple 040 Mac accelerators
already...chips Feb 1:-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 55        Fri Jan 12, 1990
R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant]        at 23:57 PST

I'd like to put forward my opinion on the TT case; the more I look at it, the
more I like it. (wish I was looking at the real thing, but that STart picture
is pretty good). It's extremely functional for it's size. And it looks like
it'll tuck in under a Moniterm real nicely. Naturally, if I feel I want a
different case, I'll just change it, like my Mega, which has been in a tower
case for a while now.

I do hope that we'll soon have more details about these 'other models' soon,
though. I like the idea of a factory Tower TT.

I've been playing with an STE, and I REALLY like what I see, both from an OS
standpoint, and the hardware itself. I'm not a programmer so I don't care
about changing addresses from the STart article to the finished product, but
the article gave me a sense of PROGRESS in TOS, i.e. it sounds like you
fellows are really working to open up the OS so that future additions and
upgrades won't take years. It also sounds like TOS 1.6 and 030 will better
support third-party products, and that's good news.

As for the 1.44 meg drives...I STRONGLY RECOMMEND..no, I INSIST that ALL TT's
come with a 1.44 meg drive as standard. I sell ST's and PC's for a living, and
I know that there's not too much difference in price, so keeping to the 720K
drives is silly. If there's a software (i.e. compatibility) reason why a TT
owner would need a 720K drive, just make sure that there's a DOWNGRADE option,
instead of an UPGRADE option. Tom of ICD is correct in that if you ship ONE TT
model with a 720K drive, every developer will have to ship their product on
720's whether they like it or not. Remember that the TT will undoubtedly have
an external floppy connector for SF314's if the user needs it.

Right now a PC user who wants to be able to access all of DOS's formats needs
about four drives. I don't think the TT has two floppy bays, so like my mother
always says: CHOOSE YOUR RUT CAREFULLY, YOU COULD BE IN IT FOR A LONG, LONG
TIME.

 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 56        Sat Jan 13, 1990
C.DAYMON                     at 14:13 EST

John,
 With respect to my monitor question, you didn't answer it.  I asked if I could
use a multisync color monitor that (the monitor) was capable of supporting a
1024x768 resolution.  I DOUBT I will be buying a 1280x960 mono monitor AND a
color monitor for the TT, but I would consider a better quality color display
in HOPES that Atari will add 1024x768 support in the future.  A display with
1024x768 color seems to me to be the IDEAL compromise both in price and
resolution for a system 'such as' the TT. AnΣ yes, I fully realize that thm
current TT doesn't support this higher color resolution, but such a monitor
would have NO problems with the lower TT color displays.

 I know we have no 'official' pricing yet, but just to let you know, Commodore
(NO, I won't buy one.) has just released the Amiga 2500/30 with a 25MHz 68030
AND 68882 math coprocessor, 2 megs of 32-bit RAM, 1 meg of 16-bit RAM, 5
expansion slots (2 XT, 3 AT) and a 40 Mb HD. All that for $4699 (retail).  Do
you think the TT will prove coprove coprove coprove coprove coain that
Unix WILL BE the dominant OS for the next 10-15 years.  Get a good GUI on it
and offer it at a reachable price and you'll own the market.

-Craig W. Daymon
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 50        Thu Jan 11, 1990
TOWNS                        at 22:59 EST

 Doug is right. You could install a Bus Error handler and then attempt
 to write to the Moniterm's Screen memory. If you Bus Error, then you
 know that you do not have a card installed. However, as I discussed with
 Jim, the driver is a MONITERM product. They are responsable for the
 maintaining of the driver. Atari doesn't make any money off this driver
 at all. So, for fixes to this problem.. either make sure you have a
 card installed when you run the driver or ask Moniterm to fix the
 problem.

 The TT SHIFTER doesn't support 1024 x 768 mode. It does support a
 1280 x 960 monochrome mode. The hardware neccessary to display this
 mode is built in. No need for cards. You can hook up an appropriate
 monitor and away you go.

 As for GUI, sorry.. It's too soon to discuss any of this. Not to mention
 that I have nothing to do with UNIX on the TT and wouldn't know anyway :-)

 When the UNIX side of things is ready to show, they will be able to tell
 you all about what GUI and implimentation of UNIX is being done, etc.

 -- John

 PS. By "they", I mean the UNIX Development Team and it's associated
     marketing group.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 51        Fri Jan 12, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 00:52 EST

Yes all you had to do was trap the bus error when the card is missing exactly
the same way the OS traps the bus error when the blitter chip is not in the
system :-) A method obviously not unknown to Atari :-) I'll bug Moniterm,
maybe they'll drop the source onto GEnie!!!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 52        Fri Jan 12, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 00:56 EST

Oh yes, I did molest Bobs....TT and the monitor was sitting on top but the
nice fit precludes the use of a nicer tilt/swivel base, etc. What exactly is
wrong with the looks of the MacIIcx or SUN 3/60, why try and make a fashion
statement, just build a utilitarian computer. You know...Daaay Vware...Swfimm
Vware...Eveniking Vware :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 53        Fri Jan 12, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 at 23:29 EST

  John:
       So, in other words, the TT electronics are in the "CPU" box, and
 the platform under it (and under the Hard Drive box)? If so, then it makes
 sense that the TT can't be made more compact.  I thought that the
 underlying platform was only a platform; actually, it seems like a
 pretty good idea to fill that space with a hard drive, and the fact
 that its removable is good, too. (Might make an excellent place to put
 a disk file for those 3.5" floppies- be they 800K or 1.44M!)  Could
 the dimensions of the TT components be listed here?  Does the CPU box
 match the dimensions of the Mega CPU box?  If so, I would imagine that
 my MegaFile could fit on top of it and the "VGA-type" TT monitor over
 that.  By the way, on the monitor, would it be possible though for an
 adaptor to allow the TT monitor to be used with a Mega ST?  I know
 several people in the ST world are using Multisyncs with STs, so I was
 wondering.

       Its a pity that STart published info that is not official,
 especially since once that snowball STarts rolling, it somehow becomes
 Atari's fault.  I'll alf. I guess this is known as
"folded-sandwich" technique.   The apparent may look more like a halfway
between MAC II and Mac SE/30 Tower case version (I think).

Or better yet, why can't Atari make those couple of brainy chips into a single
custom IC chip?

In my opinion, I wish Atari could do this way:  Cut the TT board in half
(reducing the number of electronic components for the second layer bread
board).  There, you have 2 smaller board sandwich with void (for cooling)
between the two boards.  Install Bus ribbon on one (or two) of its end.
SImple!   It is like squeeze the woman's waist in half and causing some of the
surrounding skin to go up higher. Also, similliar concept as squeezeing the
balloon in the middle, the rest extrude outwards in its side.

Maybe this will help providing extra spaces for more VME Bus or drives? Well,
it is just my suggestion and thought it might work out.

<turning my head to Towns>  TOWNS? Mike
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 63        Fri Jan 19, 1990
TOWNS [49ers!]               at 19:09 EST

 Two problems: The chips that we are using now are pretty big as it
 is. Merging them into larger chips would cause numerous problems
 one of which would be time. We are trying to get this machine out
 as soon as we can. Changes like that would take alot of time.

 Two boards? Nice idea, but it increases the cost of the machine.

 As for the question about the user being able to open up this
 machine.. There are parts of the machine that are designed for
 this. The hard disk slot is designed to be easy to open and there
 is a slot in the back for VME cards that is easy to open.

 As for the machine itself, I would imagine it would stay consistant
 with Atari policy. However, what you do with your machine after the
 90-day warranty period is up to you! <did I really say that? :-)>

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 64        Sun Jan 21, 1990
A.FRIESEN                    at 16:44 MST

From my understanding, there isn't much room in that TT case, so any card that
would go in the VME slot would have to hang out the back right?  Or is there a
big space in there for a card?  Is that why there is that "platform" base-so
the electronics went in there and there is mucho room in the "mega" case part
for a VME card?  Please answer this simple question Towns, I am very curious.

    Aric Friesen
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 65        Sun Jan 21, 1990
TOWNS [49ers!]               at 21:37 EST

 Any such board would probably be a VME board. As for the availability
 of any graphics boards for TT, Atari has not announced this information
 and I really don't have any information on such a product.

 In the TT030/2 that I have, there is space in the case for one VME card.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 66        Tue Jan 23, 1990
S.NOAH                       at 00:56 PST

Aric,
 I believe that I listed the dimensions of the standard half height VME card in
this topic. From what I saw at Comdex, this looks like the configuration (
half height VME ) that Atari is going to go with. One nice thing about VME
cards is that you don't have to open the case to install them, like you would
on an IBM. All you need to do is remove the little metal plate from the back
of the machine and slide the  card into place. The connector is on the end
that enters first and the end that you are holding as you slide it in has a
plate that is screwed in the spot previously occupied by the filler plate.
There realy should be enough room.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 67        Sun Feb 04, 1990
K.HEINRICHS [K.HEINRICHS]    at 09:32 CST

I have a few questions in regard to the monitor for the TT. First, can you
tell me as far as the viewing size, how does the TT's monitor compare to that
of the ST's. Also I understand that the TT's monitor is a modify VGA type or
something. Not to knock Atari's monitor with out seeing it, is this going to
limit the user to this monitor only, or is it simple enough that the
modification can be done to monitors on the market today? The waiting for this
machine is driving me nuts. Thanks in advance for your input.

Has anyone tried Touch-Up and the hand scanner on the TT?

K.HEINRICHS
 *S
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 68        Wed Feb 07, 1990
C.DAYMON                     at 19:55 EST

I'm not sure we want ALL the 'BIG' names writing for the ST either.  A friend
of mine is a hard-core Mac owner (except she does want a Stacy Spectre GCR)
and she claims few Mac owners have good things to say about Microsoft.  (Based
on problems working in harmony with other programs.) Still, Excel is by far a
much more advanced product than 1-2-3.  I'd just like to see some of the VERY
exciting programs available in Germany available here.  Like STeve, the ST
wordprocessor with german-to-english and english-to-german translation, OCR
support, graphics, multiple fonts and lots more.  It's very expensive, but it
would sure turn some US heads toward the ST just to see it on the market.
Also, there is at least one bit-image editor with AUTO Trace available in
Germany.  (See the report from the Dusseldorf show in a past - I think August -
issue of ST World-UK.)

-Craig W. Daymon
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 69        Wed Feb 07, 1990
R.COVERT1                    at 18:29 MST

to TOWNS: Have you heard anything about a new ST magazine called ST JOURNAL??
It is supposed to be out this spring and is geared towards professional
applications. It is that type of support that sets us apart from IBM and Mac.
ie. the ATari ST is down to one dinky little magazine STart, and a bi-monthly
(or less often) Atari Explorer. As I have said before, I love my ST and would
be thrilled to buy a TT if it would ever come out, and if there was a reason
to buy it. But, w/o a multi-tasking multi-window OS I just can't see why the
TT is worth replacing my Mega ST4 with.

And Atari's lack of sales here in the USA is just horrible. So it is good news
that Atari Corp is trying to change, and it is even better news that Bob
Brodies has agreed to visit Phoenix on May 12 to attend our PHAST Club. I
think that sending Bob around to the clubs is a VERY GOOD THING!!! And I do
thank you and Atari Corp.

So, just when is Atari Corp going to sell the TT?? And the CD/ROM?? As far as
eraseable optical drives for the TT goes, as long as the TT comes with a true
SCSI, they should be out almost as soon as the TT is. Sounds good.

 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 70        Thu Feb 08, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 14:01 EST

 I haven't heard of such a magazine, but would like to see it happen.

 As for TT and CD-ROM.. I really don't know when these products will
 be released for sale. Atari doesn't purposely hold back products so
 I can state with confidence that we will sell them as soon as they
 are ready to go.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 71        Thu Feb 08, 1990
C.DAYMON                     at 20:00 EST

That article I mentioned about the Dusseldorf show also mentioned a READ/WRITE
CD that is available NOW for the ST.  Remember, it was at a german show.
Somewhere around $  2k-$3k.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 72        Fri Feb 09, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 20:44 EST

 I really don't have any new information on the configurations of TT.
 The software (i.e. TOS) is for the most part functioning just fine.
 The hardware is progressing as well.

 As for when to expect a US release or release in general. Sorry.. I
 don't have a date to give you.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 73        Sat Feb 24, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 at 00:16 EST

The continuing TT case controversy is a bit unnerving... a lot of Atari users
who were hanging in there to see the TT have decided to leave based almost
soley for the case design... For once, I hope Atari decides to rethink the TT
case- and make the cheap TT without the hard drive... I have a MegaFile 30
already, and I don't do UNIX. :<) Also- a mini tower design would look and be
great!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 74        Sat Feb 24, 1990
ICDINC                       at 08:12 EST

It would also be nice if they allow the end users to purchase their own VGA or
Multi-Synch monitor for the TT. That may be the case, I have not heard their
plans yet.

    - TOM-
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 75        Sun Feb 25, 1990
R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant]        at 23:59 PST

I think that you will be able to use a standard VGA monitor, (I base this  on
the fact that using the PC4 or PC5 with the new PCC1424 VGA monitor, I  was
able to switch the PCC1424 for an NEC Multisync II with no problems,  and the
PCC1424 swapped out to other machines just fine).

However, from reading the manual for the monitor (does anybody else actually
read monitor manuals?) it seems that there's a 70 Hz mode built into the
PCC1424 which the average DOS box doesn't take advantage of. I imagine that
this would be for the ST compatible 'Duochrome' mode, or even the high-res
color mode.

So it seems to me that while you'd be able to use a multisyncing monitor on
the TT, it would have to be able scan as high as 70 Hz, just as on the current
ST's.

Mind you, I have no guarantee that this 1424 monitor is the one destined for
use with the TT: but I can't see why not. It's a nice monitor, and  certainly
capable of anything the TT could throw at it, I think.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 76        Mon Feb 26, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 10:17 EST

 I don't think that will actually be the monitor for the TT, but it's
 probably close.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 77        Mon Mar 05, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 at 22:55 EST

 Is the TT still in the design (or re-design?) stages or is it at or on itts
 way to the FCC for testing or what?  Is the TT a "reality" or just an idea?
 I saw the picture on the START magazine an issue back... but it seems
 to me that something must be terribly wrong for us to be nearly thru the
 first quarter of 1990 with no sign of a product intended for delivery
 in the last quarter of 1989...
 Now I realize that this will probably spur denials, accusations,etc, but
 really, all I would like to know is whether the TT will be seen soon
 (Soon= 1 month) or not for a long time... (way into 1991)... PLEASE let
 at least the status of the TT be known since I am a prospective buyer,
 and would rather not wait for something that will never be...
 If the standard answer (You'll know when we do...) is all that can be
 offered, don't bother... I'll be checking out your competitors...
 Cheers,
 Paul
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 78        Wed Mar 07, 1990
DOUG.W                       at 21:47 EST

Richard, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to talk about the TT based
on the 9 TTs that were at Fall COMDEX.  They might not have been finished, but
they were far enough along that major changes would have cost major bucks.

--Doug
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 79        Wed Mar 07, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 at 23:49 EST

 Atari reps online have mentioned (rather sheepishly, I think) that the
 TTs seen in mags and their desktops, etc. aren't yet (or weren't yet)
 complete... I still get the feeling that the TT is years away... which
 means it probably shouldn't come out.  Motorola will probably be up
 to the 68060 by the time the 68030 comes along... I hope all this time
 isn't being spent trying to make this machine UNIX compatible... everyone
 knows that the only TT buyers will be us ST and Mega owners who are still
 (Extremely patiently!) hanging in there...  NO BODY WHO BUYS UNIX WILL
 BUY ANYTHING ATARI.  Period.  It may be painful to hear it... but its
 true.
  Therefore, Atari should play it smart and make us ST'ers want it...
 and that means they should pay attention to the posts in this topic
 which basicly boil down to:
  1) Change the CPU box!  Make it a tower (Full or half)
  2) Put in a 1.44 meg floppy
  1 3) Give it a standard VME architecture with MORE then one slot
  4) Make it CPU upgradeable (ie. Faster 68030 CPUs)
  5) Sell it both with and w/o built in hard drives
  6) ADVERTISE! (This for R. Mariano...)
  7) Give me one ASAP!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 80        Wed Mar 07, 1990
LEPULLEY                     at 22:00 MST

 Doug W.,

 Any system that isn't going to be released until the 1st quarter of 91,
 has plenty of time for a lot of changes.

 (LL)oyd <if had been Atari instead of God that created the world,
          instead of "Let there be light", we'd still be hearing
          "Real soon now"> Pulley


 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 81        Fri Mar 09, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 13:11 EST

 The TT is a reality. I am typing on one right now. As soon as we can
 sell them, we will. Trust me. We aren't holding back the machine on
 purpose. We want to sell this machine to you as much as you want to
 buy them.

 However, we want to be sure that we are providing a stable machine
 that is up to our standards. This takes time..

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 82        Fri Mar 09, 1990
ICDINC                       at 15:57 EST

As a developer and manufacturer of product less complex than the computer, I
can really understand the delays. I challenge the critics out there to try and
develop any product; to launch it and manufacture it, and ship in quantity ..
ON SCHEDULE. I have not found a company yet that could do that consistently. A
good example of this is the Insite Peripherals Floptical drive. They were
taking cash orders 2 years ago and they are still not shipping.

   - TOM -
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 83        Fri Mar 09, 1990
LEPULLEY                     at 16:48 MST

 Tom,

 We're not talking about not shipping on schedule, we're talking about not
 shipping 6-18 months late...on almost every ST/STe/TT product.  True,
 Insite might be 2 years late on their Floptical drive...but that's almost
 an entirely new technology, not just a re-hash of 2-4 year old technology.
 And it's one product, not EVERY product.


 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 84        Fri Mar 09, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 20:05 EST

 I beg to differ. The STE/TT products are not simply re-hashes of old
 technology. They contain new and complex custom parts that require
 time to design and to make work properly. Not to mention that the STE
 and TT computers aren't like IBM machines. Most IBM machines can be
 build from parts that off the shelf. TT's and STE's simply aren't that
 way.

 As for delays.. I agree with Tom. Hardware is complex and there are
 a ton of things that can go wrong and delay you (one of the usual is
 outside vendors who mess up on parts or PCBs), and I don't evny the
 people who have to give date projections to Sam at all. It's VERY
 hard.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 85        Sat Mar 17, 1990
B.GRIER                      at 11:02 EST

Gee I go away for a week and all this appears!! A simple question about the
TT. Will I be able to order it with a math co-processor installed? Next
question. Will I be able to specify either the 68881, or the 68882 math co-
processor?

My question last week regarding a 68010 in a STE provoked less thought than I
thought it would especially from Jim Allen. The obvious reason to stick a
68010 in an STE is that I could create an less-expensive TT development
system. I will promise everyone here that Jim's accelerator board will blow
the doors off a 68010. But consider this, the stack frames for the 68010 are
compatable with the 68030, and the 68040. The STE could be my answer to a TT
development system. And remember that the 68010 has special move instructions
that allow me to specify that I wish to address a co-processor address space.
This would allow someone to simply add a floating-point co-processor without
having to have knowledge of where ATARI meant it to be. Also I already have a
board from ELTEC America that plugs into a VME card cage and supports just
about any resolution you could imagine, 1280 x 1024 interest anyone?

So let's get this topic back on track, not that I really have been on track,
my 68010 STE idea and I are now going to the STE topic. Please do not bash the
16-Mhz 68030 until you have used one. More may be better, but pricing is
logrithimic not linear. Do not  believe me, then start pricing plain 8-Mhz
68000s and 16-Mhz 68000s without the advantage of Jim's accelerator board.

If you wish to discuss these ideas with me I am normally listening to 21.350
USB. Computers and amateur radio what a perfect life!!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 86        Sat Mar 17, 1990
G.MON2                       at 12:20 EST

Just out of curosity, does the TT have the same additional 15-pin joysticks as
the STe?  Also, how is the new graphics modes of the TT mapped in  memory?  Do
they use the same interleaved bit-plane approach?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 87        Mon Mar 19, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 22:03 EST

 Research and Development is a function of Atari Technology Corp., a
 subsidiary of Atari Corporation.

 The TT does not have the 15 pin Analog Joystick Ports that the STE
 has. The TT will have a math coprocessor as an option.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 88        Thu Mar 22, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 at 00:16 EST

 Will the TT be at the Anaheim show?  Not that I'll be there, but my
 nephew who writes software for the Sun computers is very interested in
 seeing the TT- his first major computer was a 1040ST, and he may be
 interested in writing for the TT someday.  Yes, the show will be within
 driving distance for him.  Me?  I'm stuck here on the east coast!  Any
 long range plans for Atari to attend WAACE in October?  Maybe with the
 TT?  (Leave the STE at home, instead!)
 :)
 Paul
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 89        Thu Mar 22, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 04:14 EST

 I am not sure whether or not there will be a TT at the WOA. I
 certainly hope we will be able to show one, but I just can't
 give you a yes or no answer right now. Bob Brodie, can you shed
 some light on this one?

 As for TT release dates.. I think you all know how I feel about
 release dates. I hate them. I avoid giving them out at all costs.
 The best I can tell you is that as soon as we have a machine that
 is ready to ship, you will see it.

 -- John

 PS. And to be honest, I really don't know what the timeframe is
     for the TT release to the US.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 90        Thu Mar 22, 1990
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 06:41 EST

A discussion on the TT and the WOA show can be found in Category  11 as
always. :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 91        Sun Mar 25, 1990
B.GRIER                      at 09:25 EST

I really hate to do this but...   The TT is reported to contain a VME
interface. Well the real question is what level of VME will be supported? 24
address and 16 data, 32 address and 32 data? What is the largest card the case
will hold, 3U, 6U, 9U, or Sun's wierd card size? I know these questions do not
fit with the general whining about ___ vs Atari but I don't care. I have a use
for the TT and I intend to be ready to take full advantage of the machine when
it arrives, even if my local Atari dealer only wants to sell software!!!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 92        Sun Mar 25, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 12:56 EST

Well, they say the TT02 will use the 24/16 VME in a 6U card size. The last
time I plugged something into the SUN 3/280 it was a standard 9U?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 93        Sun Mar 25, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 14:28 EST

 I believe Jim is correct. The size is commonly referred to as the
 Eurocard size.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 94        Tue Mar 27, 1990
R.IRVINE                     at 07:14 PST

I was under the impression that the TT/02 had a 3U VME card slot, not 6U. The
panel space required for a 3U is about 5 inches and for the 6U it is about 10
inches.  All of you with TT's <grin>, go get your rulers out.

The VME specification calls out two card sizes, 3U x 160mm and 6U x 160mm.
There are also several non-standard sizes, such as the SUN 9U cards, and
others that are 6U x 220mm.  They are all considered "Eurocards".  Probably 90-
95% of the commercially available VME cards are in the 6U x 160mm format.
There is a fair amount of circuitry involved in interfacing a card to the VME
bus; with the 3U form factor this eats up a high percentage of the board
space, leaving limited space for the intended function of the board.

Other rumored features (limitations) of the TT/02 VME slot is that it only
implements the P1 connector (24 address/16 data bits) and that it does not
support alternate bus masters.

I consider the card size to be the most serious limitation, since most of the
more "interesting" VME boards are only available in the 6U or larger form
factors.  The available 3U card functions are fairly limited.  The lack of
alternate bus master support would be a problem with many cards.  Many of the
high performance cards have onboard processors or DMA cabability and need to
take over the bus for access to the main (TT) memory.  The A24/D16 bus width
is a less serious limitation since most 32 bit cards can also communicate over
a 16 bit bus, although slower.

While the TT/02 will have an "industry standard" VME slot, the limitations of
its implementation will not give the TT user many more expansion options than
are available today with the Mega expansion slot.

Ray Irvine
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 95        Sat Mar 31, 1990
MRAYMOND                     at 09:10 CST

Interesting note: Got my copy of PCWEEK Friday and scanned it. (I always read
the rumor column first!) Anyway, the rumor column has a paragraph about the
Hanover fair, and noted that Atari demonstrated the TT running Unix....
aparently Atari caught someone's notice, since this is the first I have ever
seen it mentioned in this Mag.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 96        Sat Apr 07, 1990
L.HARRIS                     at 21:29 PDT

   Well I have seen the famous Atari TT.  And all I have to say  is,  "I am
impressed." The color display was wonderful.  The  small demo that I saw did
showed me the potential of the TT.
     I  was  very disapointed with two aspects  of  the  TT.  First was the
estimated price of three grand.  This was  the  cheap model (with a hard
disk).  This put the TT very  close  to  the  price  level of  the  big  boys
(IBM,  Apple...and  Amiga?).  I though Atari was suppose to be power without
the  price  anyway. At this price level the c~sumer   will   not  tolerate
Atari's  poor  PR.  Nor will the consumer  tolerate  all  the problems  Atari
is having with the USA  market.  If Atari  is serious about the TT,  then they
better get their  marketing act together.
     I  was really distressed by the projected release  date  of  the  latter
part of the year or maybe the  fall  of  the  year. That seems more like 1990
before I can get one into my  house.
     All in all I did like the TT.  Did I like iI like iI like iI like iI like irom Jim Allen. The obvious reason to stick a
68010 in an STE is that I could create an less-expensive TT development
system. I will promise everyone here that Jim's accelerator board will blow
the doors off a 68010. But consider this, the stack frames for the 68010 are
compatable with the 68030, and the 68040. The STE could be my answer to a TT
development system. And remember that the 68010 has special move instructions
that allow me to specify that I wish to address a co-processor address space.
This would allow someone to simply add a floating-point co-processor without
having to have knowledge of where ATARI meant it to be. Also I already have a
board from ELTEC America that plugs into a VME card cage and supports just
about any resolution you could imagine, 1280 x 1024 interest anyone?

So let's get this topic back on track, not that I really have been on track,
my 68010 STE idea and I are now going to the STE topic. Please do not bash the
16-Mhz 68030 until you have used one. More may be better, but pricing is
logrithimic not linear. Do not  believe me, then start pricing plain 8-Mhz
68000s and 16-Mhz 68000s without the advantage of Jim's accelerator board.

If you wish to discuss these ideas with me I am normally listening to 21.350
USB. Computers and amateur radio what a perfect life!!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 86        Sat Mar 17, 1990
G.MON2                       at 12:20 EST

Just out of curosity, does the TT have the same additional 15-pin joysticks as
the STe?  Also, how is the new graphics modes of the TT mapped in  memory?  Do
they use the same interleaved bit-plane approach?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 87        Mon Mar 19, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 22:03 EST

 Research and Development is a function of Atari Technology Corp., a
 subsidiary of Atari Corporation.

 The TT does not have the 15 pin Analog Joystick Ports that the STE
 has. The TT will have a math coprocessor as an option.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 88        Thu Mar 22, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 at 00:16 EST

 Will the TT be at the Anaheim show?  Not that I'll be there, but my
 nephew who writes software for the Sun computers is very interested in
 seeing the TT- his first major computer was a 1040ST, and he may be
 interested in writing for the TT someday.  Yes, the show will be within
 driving distance for him.  Me?  I'm stuck here on the east coast!  Any
 long range plans for Atari to attend WAACE in October?  Maybe with the
 TT?  (Leave the STE at home, instead!)
 :)
 Paul
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 89        Thu Mar 22, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 04:14 EST

 I am not sure whether or not there will be a TT at the WOA. I
 certainly hope we will be able to show one, but I just can't
 give you a yes or no answer right now. Bob Brodie, can you shed
 some light on this one?

 As for TT release dates.. I think you all know how I feel about
 release dates. I hate them. I avoid giving them out at all costs.
 The best I can tell you is that as soon as we have a machine that
 is ready to ship, you will see it.

 -- John

 PS. And to be honest, I really don't know what the timeframe is
     for the TT release to the US.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 90        Thu Mar 22, 1990
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 06:41 EST

A discussion on the TT and the WOA show can be found in Category  11 as
always. :-)
 you are looking for be convection ?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 102       Wed Apr 25, 1990
S.WHITNEY [Steve W.]         at 01:59 PDT

Hey, folks!  Commodore anounced their A3000 today and it looks like the TT
will comete well if it's released in time and if the price is right...
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 103       Wed Apr 25, 1990
NEVIN-S                      at 21:02 EDT

Yes, the Amiga 3000 also made the cover of Byte magazine...

   --Nevin
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 104       Wed Apr 25, 1990
R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant]        at 20:33 PDT

I doubt the TT will make the cover of Byte. JP's pretty down on the ST  these
days.

Convection. Of course. Naturally, I remembered the term as soon as I typed
'bye'.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 105       Wed Apr 25, 1990
S.NOAH                       at 22:11 PDT

I'm surprised that the Amiga made the cover of Byte ! As for the ST given the
current level of support in this country we  might just see one of the BBC
micros on the cover of BYTE first. Oh  well, maybe that will change this year,
it has to some time.. right ?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 106       Thu Apr 26, 1990
C.DAYMON                     at 19:18 EDT

I'm probably one of a minority that wasn't particularily upset by the style of
the TT case, but that has changed.  I just received my annual report and in it
was a picture of the TT with the Atari monitor that would go with it.  The
base of the monitor extends over the larger portion of the TT case that it is
sitting on.  This is just plain poor planning! It looks STUPID and does not
give the impression that Atari has put much thought into the machine when such
simple, small details are missed. Really poor guys.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 107       Thu Apr 26, 1990
J.LYONS11                    at 20:18 CDT

On page 6 of the latest INFOWORLD, Commodore says they will be selling the
Amiga 3000 in July.  Two meg RAM/40 meg HD version going for  around $4K, I
think it said. Where's my TT?!?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 108       Thu Apr 26, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 23:17 EDT

Looks like the TT just might kick some Amiga butt...certain 3rd parties have
some tricks up their sleves :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 109       Thu Apr 26, 1990
R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant]        at 22:40 PDT

Ooh, ah, ooh. Is this Jim (Mr. Tantalizing) Allen doing it to us again?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 110       Fri Apr 27, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            at 03:13 CDT

But, I personally don't like the AmigaDOS inside that "densely-packed
markings" on the window.  GEM is a really nice and subtle to be on the screen
given the proper resoluion and also GEM reminds me of something like X-
windows....and that will be possible on TT/Unix version just as Germany have
shown to the public (I think).

The only way to beat Amiga video advancements is to have a multiple PIP's
display controller (like I mentioned here before about Nolan Bushnell exotic
video window devices for the Macworld..can't recall that box again...).   I
can feel it but it has to arrive programmers hand first before Amiga gets into
the eyes of new customers/pros/white-collarmen.

Hey, why not have a double-stacked Mega box to perform a single TT
workstation.  For example, bottome Mega-designed case box will do the actual
68030 CPU timings and all chipus timing and the second Mega- designed case box
will do VMEBussie (let us called TT/VME for the top box).  Also, it is cooler!

What do you think of my conceptual TT design? Mike
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 111       Tue May 01, 1990
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 18:31 EDT

The comparison topic has now been moved to Category 18 Topic 22. Please keep
this strictly for Atari TT information, ideas etc
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 112       Wed May 02, 1990
S.WHITNEY [Steve W.]         at 01:45 PDT

Well then, see you in a few months, Darlah. :-(
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 113       Thu May 03, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            at 03:47 CDT

What is the decibel level for the fan inside TT workstation (anykind)?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 114       Thu May 03, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 14:02 EDT

 There are two fans in the TT and I am not sure what the
 decibel level is for these fans. I have no way to measure it.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 115       Thu May 03, 1990
DERRICK                      at 23:48 EDT

Two fans and 1 slot. So we still have to chop the mother board up for
expansion, shame!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 116       Fri May 04, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 00:24 EDT

There are actually companies that sell VME expansion cabinets and
connections...so we can have what ever our wallets can justify :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 117       Fri May 04, 1990
BREHBOCK                     at 00:09 CDT

Jim, can my wallet say 40Mhz? :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 118       Fri May 04, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            at 02:58 CDT

But.....can TT acts as like a video file server?   If you don't know what that
means, you better catch up with the world of desktop workstation in the field
of computer graphics.....shame!  <waving forefinger>
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 119       Fri May 04, 1990
C.DAYMON                     at 20:40 EDT

At my last job, we had designed and were using a portable Unix V.3 diagnostic
computer.  It had 1 VME slot.  There was also a second unit that worked with
the first via a bus repeater.  The second unit was essentially a card cage
with about 8 slots and a tape back-up.  Anyway, 1 VME slot is NOT the same as
1 slot in a Mega.  Though, it would be nice if it was a 6U slot and not a 3U
slot.  (My terminology may be off, but it is the smaller VME.)

-Craig W. Daymon

P.S.  That portable was designed for the Navy and portable to the Navy
      was about 45 pounds.  Still, as a diagnostics computer it beats
      having to use a VAX.  (90 pounds total for both units.)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 120       Sat May 05, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 at 01:43 EDT

 Question to Atari:
  According to CPU(ST)-REPORT this week (#418), there was an
 announcement that the TT had passed FCC certification... is this true?
 If so, that must be the fastest certification for an Atari product ever!
 (I tend to doubt this really occurred since Atari would be all over GEnie
 proclaiming the fact- TOWNS would probably be right behind BRODIE in
 posting the fact- )  Is it any colder in Hades?  Is there any closer idea
 as to when the TT tower may come to be?  Also, is there still discussion
 of a 68040 TT? (TT040/2?)
 Question to Tech Types who may know:
  From the data available on the TT now, will the TT be easily upgraded
 to 33MHz (or is that 32MHz?) or 25MHz.  I'm talking about a 68030-25MHz.
 Would it have to be piggy-backed like TURBO-16 in the ST, or could the
 CPUs just be traded?  Would the rest of the system still crawl at 16MHz-
 ie. Video, TOS, DRAM, etc.?
  By the way, the TT/FCC announcement can be found in CPU-REPORT (418)
 under an article about the Rochester (?) Institute of Technology...
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 121       Sat May 05, 1990
S.NOAH                       at 00:20 PDT

Here is one out of left field... lets see if anyone can answer it:

Can the TT run any of the STe demos that have been uploaded lately ?

I'm just curious since there seems to be a little overlap in some of the
listed specs.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 122       Sat May 05, 1990
JEFF.W [RTC Sysop]           at 04:50 EDT

What's this about Turbo-16 being piggy-backed?  The original 68000 is removed,
with Turbo-16's 16Mz 68000 replacing it.

Or did my technician goof up my installation?  <grin>
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 123       Sat May 05, 1990
D.ANDERSON22 [FastTech Rep]  at 12:29 EDT

   No, Jeff, your technician didn't goof. T16 isn't piggy-backed, it's
socketed. Whole different ballgame.

   ;^)

-Dave
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 124       Sat May 05, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 12:44 EDT

As with any 68030 computer, you will be able to replace the 16Mhz 68030 chip
with a board having a faster 68030 chip and cache ram. The sky is the limit on
such things...as long as the 68030 is in a socket of course. Same thing goes
for the 68882 chip.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 125       Sat May 05, 1990
OUTRIDER [Terry May]         at 11:20 PDT

Not to discredit CPU NewsWire, but I assumed they confused the STE passing of
the FCC with that of the TT.  It has been my understanding that the TT was
still under development, and hadn't even been _submitted_ to the FCC.

Of course, I'll jump for joy if CPU NewsWire was dead-on.  :^)  After all, an
FCC passing in May means there's at least a fair chance of it shipping in the
same year.

...Terry
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 126       Sat May 05, 1990
ICDINC                       at 23:41 EDT

I think the STE passed over 1 month ago. I hope the TT has now passed.  This
is usually something that is done months before release.

   - TOM -
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 127       Sun May 06, 1990
ST-REPORT [CPU Report]       at 13:44 EDT

P.MCCULLOUGH,

Atari Germany's talked about developing a 68040-based TT, but it probably
won't be coming out until the 68040's price is lower....

S.NOAH,

If the STe demo doesn't use any of the features specific to the STe  blitter
chip, then it should run on the TT....
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 128       Sun May 06, 1990
B.PISCHKE                    at 14:56 EDT

Is it true that Atari Can.  will be having a press conference on June 4 and
will release the TT about a month after?  Can someone from Atari Can.  (or
even Atari US.) confirm this?

 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 129       Sun May 06, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            at 16:25 CDT

is it true that Atari Canada is receiving a formal letter from MacNeal-
Schwindler Corp., a company famous for 3D finite-element analysis solid
modeling for enginneer designer to develop prototype on the screen rather than
plastic/clay molds????   If so, it would nice to see it on the TT. Also, like
other workstation platforms, this software can let the user to pick up the
"vertex-points" of the polygon or objects to see if there is any stress in the
materials until the the software shows no sign of stress.  It would be
interesing to see what is the outcome of the design as a final product.
Interesting....unless it is a rumor from certain gee-whiz bbs....<sad face>

Mike
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 130       Mon May 07, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 02:34 EDT

 To be honest, I am not sure if the TT has passed FCC testing yet.
 I know that we have been working on it.

 As for Atari Germany and the 68040.. please be aware that Atari
 Germany is a sales/marketing organization for the Federal Republic
 of Germany. They are not a Research and Design Organization. R&D
 is based and managed directly in Sunnyvale.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 131       Mon May 07, 1990
ST.REPORT [Ralph]            at 07:53 EDT

You mean, Atari Germany is an arm of the German Gov't?? >>>"please be aware
that Atari Germany is a sales/marketing organization for the Federal Republic
of Germany."

If they are not R&D why the GERMAN TOS?  OR the new souped up OS now spoken
of??  hmmmmmm
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 132       Mon May 07, 1990
JEFF.W [RTC Sysop]           at 12:47 EDT

John didn't mean Atari Germany is associated with the government there.
Perhaps using the word "in", instead of "for", would have made this clearer.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 133       Mon May 07, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 13:14 EDT

 You missed my point, Ralph. Atari Germany is the sales/marketing
 organization for Atari in the Federal Republic of Germany.

 All Development of _any_ version of TOS is done here in Sunnyvale
 by a number of the people you see online.

 Souped up OS?

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 134       Mon May 07, 1990
ST.REPORT [Ralph]            at 15:01 EDT

Sorry John I repeated the way I "read" it ... I am very well aware of the fact
that Atari GERMANY is not an arm of the gov't. You have a very "unique" way of
expressing yourself.  I can't find it in my nservative heart to think that the
German development is done soley in Sunnyvale...................
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 135       Mon May 07, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     at 16:40 EDT

Pat,

The TT is at the FCC for certification right now.  That's the hardware end of
it. We're still addressing a few software issues on the TT now. That's what I
told the guys at Rochest. Sorry if you got too excited. :)

B.Pischke- Sorry, I don't know anything about that.  You could always give
them a call and ask *them* about it. I don't think they have anyone online
here on GEnie (although I'm workin' on it!). Their phone number is 416-479-
1266. Or you could fax them at 416-479-1439.

The general manager is Geoff Earle, tell 'em I said hi!!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 136       Mon May 07, 1990
JEFF.W [RTC Sysop]           at 17:09 EDT

Since Julius left Atari Canada to work for ISD, I don't recall seeing anyone
from Atari Canada online here.  Not a bad idea though!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 137       Mon May 07, 1990
B.PISCHKE                    at 18:53 EDT

Bob Brodie-

Thanks.  I'll call them and see.  I think they should have people on-line
though.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 138       Mon May 07, 1990
OUTRIDER [Terry May]         at 19:14 PDT

Bob...

How long has the FCC had the TT?

...Terry
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 139       Mon May 07, 1990
T.HARPER4                    at 22:02 CDT

Am I right that the TT is not shipping anywhere right now, including Europe?
That would mean that the TT isn't ready to ship even if it had passed FCC.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 140       Tue May 08, 1990
ICDINC                       at 08:28 EDT

Even if the TT passes FCC there are still software problems to work out I
would guess. The hardware may be well done but an OS of this complexity should
take many hours of debugging.

   - TOM -
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 141       Tue May 08, 1990
UNICORNPUB                   at 10:10 EDT

Tom, My feeling (for what that's worth :) ) is it'd be great to get the TT
through FCC so that by the time it's ready to ship, the software would be
ready.  It seems it's several months from FCC certification to actual dealer
release.  There's many hours in several months!  :)

  Pattie Rayl (Atari Interface Magazine)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 142       Tue May 08, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 12:34 EDT

 Hate to disappoint you, Ralph. TOS Operating System Development is
 done exclusively in Sunnyvale, CA by the group of people I work with.
 If you don't believe me, call up your good friend Leonard Tramiel
 and verify it.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 143       Tue May 08, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     at 13:31 EDT

T.Harper-

Your correct, it is not shipping any where in the world.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 144       Tue May 08, 1990
ST.REPORT [Ralph]            at 13:37 EDT

Ok oh high exaulted one.... John you are 100% right and the folks in UK and
ther continent are a pack of liars... gimme a break!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 145       Tue May 08, 1990
ICDINC                       at 17:34 EDT

Ralph,  There may be TOS development in other parts of the world but it is
being done as an unauthorized hack. I would be really surprised if Atari let
that development happen on the outside.

   - TOM -
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 146       Tue May 08, 1990
ST-REPORT [CPU Report]       at 18:40 EDT

ICDINC,

Atari UK hired Unisoft Inc. (a British firm who also did Apple Unix for the
Mac II) to write the TT's Unix, and both Atari UK and Atari Germany have
designed Atari products (such as the TT), so Sunnyvale doesn't have to do all
Atari development..

TOWNS,

By the way, since you are already using a 68030 TT, and have all of the
Software Development tools available for it, could you run the Dhrystone
benchmark on it so "the rest of us" can have an inkling of the TT's processing
capability?

I think Lenny may have a copy of it, so....
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 147       Tue May 08, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 21:02 EDT

 First, his name is _Leonard_.

 Second, All development on the TOS Operating System is done here in
 Sunnyvale, CA. Period! I know this because I build final versions of
 TOS for release to manufacturing. I also know this because I am part
 of a VERY small group of people who even have access to the sources
 to build the Operating System.

 As for Atari Hardware Development, this is done throughout various
 locations around the world.

 I am not calling Atari Germany or Atari UK liars. But, they do not do
 Operating System work at all. It's all done here for TOS. UNIX is a
 completely different issue entirely.

 -- John

 PS. The TT was designed here in the USA. Not in England, Germany, or
     Luxembourg.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 148       Tue May 08, 1990
ICDINC                       at 21:13 EDT

Ralph,  What John said. ;-)

   - TOM -
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 149       Tue May 08, 1990
S.WHITNEY [Steve W.]         at 20:17 PDT

Do you guys know if the 'Quick ST' benchmark that was run on teh TT was
running in fast RAm or chip RAM?  Could make a big difference since the fast
RAM can do burst mode!
 --Steve
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 150       Wed May 09, 1990
BREHBOCK                     at 01:25 CDT

Ralph, I've never given much credence to ST-REPORT. IMHO, it has always been
for the lack of a better word, electronic trash.  Your "Lenny" remarks and the
other past comments have cut your crediblitly down to nothing. (Flame off :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 152       Wed May 09, 1990
ST.REPORT [Ralph]            at 11:29 EDT


   First things first....,
      Please allow  me to  apologize for my young collegue's ungracious
   slip of the keyboard in not addressing Leonard  by his  proper name.
   I am  confident that,  in the  future, Michael Arthur will not allow
   this oversight to occur again.


   W.E. Rehbock,
      I have no problem  with your  disliking or  not reading STReport,
   but to  resort to childish name calling?  Please....  Let's at least
   be gentlemen.


   Tom.....,
      Go to your room!   :-)


      In closing, I believe  that Micheal  Arthur did  indeed point out
   certain points of information that say quite a bit about development
   in other parts of the world being done for Atari.  And I quote;

      "Atari UK hired Unisoft Inc. (a British firm  who also  did Apple
      Unix for  the Mac  II) to  write the TT's Unix, and both Atari UK
      and Atari Germany have designed Atari products (such  as the TT),
      so Sunnyvale doesn't have to do all Atari development.."

      If M. Arthur is not quite right in his mentioning the TT, then he
   stands corrected, he should  have mentioned  the ATW,  the Portfolio
   and a  virtual plethora  of better than excellent software.   As far
   as  Mr.  Townsend's  post  #147  relating  to  him  being  the  last
   individual to  "touch" TOS  as its  on the way out the door.  I feel
   much  better  now  knowing  the  entire  world,  as  far  as  TOS is
   concerned, is  in such capable hands.  As an aside, I always thought
   that UNIX was an operating system too.


 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 153       Wed May 09, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 11:54 EDT

 Sure, Ralph. UNIX is an Operating System and a really good one at
 that. However, we were talking about things like a "Souped-up TOS
 from Germany" and TOS Development. TOS and UNIX are entirely two
 different issues and are handled by different groups within our
 company.

 As for your comments on my handling TOS on the way out the door,
 thanks. I do my best to make sure this happens as smoothly as
 possible.

 And please read my message.. I stated that Atari development is
 done throughout the world. However, TOS Operating System development
 is done here in Sunnyvale. Period. No one else has the source
 code to do anything to TOS. If they are modifying the Operating
 System, then they are doing so without our knowledge and this is
 not support by Atari.

 I hope this is beginning to become clearer. My only point is that
 Germany can't come out with it's own "Souped-up TOS" because we would
 have to make such a beast here. And if we make it, it will go to all
 of the countries, not just Germany.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 154       Wed May 09, 1990
ICDINC                       at 18:39 EDT

 Ralph,
 Michael Arthur is on GEnie?  Is he the guy who writes Dream Computer in your
magazine?
 IF so, I would like to talk to him.
 He seems to be uninformed in many areas and could use some help with specs
and prices.

    - TOM -
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 155       Wed May 09, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 18:45 EDT

 Michael Arthur uses the ST-REPORT Account. He usually makes his
 'nickname' [CPU Report] and Ralph uses [Ralph].

 You can also tell them apart by the style of message as well.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 156       Wed May 09, 1990
ST.REPORT [Ralph]            at 19:40 EDT

TOM...  At times you are "oh so helpfull!"   Go back to your room!  :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 157       Wed May 09, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 23:54 EDT

Both the 68020 TOSs and "Soupedup TOS" in Germany are not the product of
Atari. Atari has just chosen NOT to prosecute the parties involved for
copyright infringement :-) See sometimes Atari is a very freindly company.

Nite Ralph, nite Tom, nite John, nite Micheal.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 160       Thu May 10, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     at 13:21 EDT

Ralph,

C'mon, let Tom help you out! All you'll have to do is give Michael a  calling
card to call Illinois with, so he won't run up his phone bill!!! Just be
careful that Tom doesn't start trying to put his own byline in the
stuff....(just kidding gang, keep the flamethrowers on low!!)

Morning, Jim!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 161       Thu May 10, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 14:14 EDT

 Jim: <grin>
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 162       Thu May 10, 1990
ST.REPORT [Ralph]            at 19:31 EDT

Thanks Jim...  at least I wasn't loosing it.  :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 163       Thu May 10, 1990
GORDON                       at 22:38 EDT

 All this about who and whom does the operating system???? Wow
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 164       Fri May 11, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 23:48 EDT

 I know, Gordon.. Sorry!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 165       Sun May 13, 1990
N.MOSER                      at 10:33 EDT

Does any one know when we will be able to purchase an Atari TT?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 166       Sun May 13, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            at 23:14 CDT

<with a serious look on my face>

Then should I delete my "LIVE_VIDEO" file?  I thought you guys pass it around
to Datel or whoever has TT to try out with Parsec board. Or maybe I should
ask, is my "LIVE_VIDEO.TXT" board possible on TT?

No?  Then, I am afraid that TT doesn't sound like a workstation after all.
Right? Wrong? in my theory?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 167       Sun May 13, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            at 23:39 CDT

Sorry, I just read email from Sandy and she has informed me that she moved my
"LIVE_VIDEO.TXT" to Cat 18, Topic 2 (Other Computer System). Really,
"LIVE_VIDEO.TXT" has nothing to do with "other computer system" but it is more
like hardware board for particular workstation.  I would like for you guys,
the graphics board vendors in the TT arena or R&D, to take a look at it and
tell me what do you think of this 24-bit video board in a live video
performance.  It think it is really neat to have it but someone would have to
somehow design it for the TT and keep the cost down (as if to compete
them)....   If nobody likes, not a single from OOps, I mean if nobody is
interest in it, I might delete my message for good because it leads me to
think that TT might not work with it.

Any questions about this board, please reply in Cat 18, Topic 2.  Not here!
Now back to TT world.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 168       Mon May 14, 1990
ST-REPORT [CPU Report]       at 16:50 EDT

N.MOSER,

Europe, Australia, etc., could get 68030 TTs before June....

Of course, if Motorola doesn't manufacture any more 68030s then the US will
probably never see them.  Hopefully something good will come out of the
Motorola/Hitachi Suit....
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 169       Tue May 15, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 00:45 EDT

Mike, the law suit is meaningless as to 030 production. Stop worrying.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 170       Tue May 15, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 12:07 EDT

 There are TOO many computers on the market already that use
 the 68030 for Motorola to stop making the 030. Not to mention,
 who is going to turn their nose up at a $3 BILLION dollar a
 year product?!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 171       Tue May 15, 1990
ST-REPORT [CPU Report]       at 18:43 EDT

TOWNS,

Hitachi recently won a patent infringement suit against Motorola, saying that
the 68030 chip's MMU infringes on a patent held by Hitachi.  The judge in that
case said that Motorola could not sell 68030 chips until the year 2004, but he
recently lifted that ban temporarily....

If the ban goes into effect again, then it won't be a matter of Motorola
"turning up its nose at a $3 billion dollar a year product?, but it will be
illegal for Motorola to sell them.  I did not imply that Motorola was ignoring
the 68030 market, so there is no need to get agitated....

J.ALLEN27,

So the lawsuit ruling doesn't affect the status of 68030 manufacturing?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 172       Wed May 16, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 00:10 EDT

Mike, the point the judge was making is that the matter didn't belong in
court, and that both companies shold grow up. That's all, nobody is going to
shut down 030 manufacturing.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 173       Wed May 16, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 11:56 EDT

 No one is agitated.. but, from what I have read in the industry
 press.. you are wrong. Jim's version of the truth (Hi Jim! <grin>)
 is the one I and the San Jose Mercury News are familar with.

 Your 2004 comment is the first time I have heard that one..

 The bottom line: There are no worries about 68030 supply. The product
 is simply too important to the industry to be banned from production.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 174       Wed May 16, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     at 14:07 EDT

Michael,

 I second what Jim said! :-)

What your missing is that while Hitachi won a judgement against Motorola,
Motorola won a judgement against them for multi million $$$$$$ That's how the
judge is trying to get them BOTH out of the courts, and into a settlement.

BTW, on what do you base your statement that Europe and Australia might get
the TT before June? Not flamming, just honestly asking.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 178       Wed May 16, 1990
ST-REPORT [CPU Report]       at 21:57 EDT

BOB-BRODIE,

Some people at Atari Australia had stated (back in March or April) that
Australia was going to be getting TTs in May or June.  Also, I mentioned that
the possibility of this occurring was still there....


TOWNS,

On March 30, 1990, U.S. District Court Judge Lucius Bunton temporarily lifted
a ban on sales of the 68030 microprocessor (he had banned 68030 sales when
Hitachi won its lawsuit against Motorola), pending an appeal of the case by
Motorola.

The reason that Judge Lucius Bunton originally forbade Motorola to sell the
68030 microprocessor for the duration of Hitachi's patents (read: 2004) was
because he originally ruled that the 68030's MMU infringed on one of Hitachi's
patents...

In giving his verdicts in the cases that Motorola and Hitachi had filed
against each other, the Judge admonished both companies for their failure to
communicate and settle their differences out of court....

The above is both what has been "reported in the industry news", and what I
have maintained from the first.  Also, while it seems apparent that the
statements that I and J.ALLEN27 made are not necessarily incompatible, your
scintillating viewpoints concerning the above are noted....

Also, while I also hope that Motorola and Hitachi will resolve this lawsuit
without harm to the 68030's supply, it would seem apparent that if they don't
come to such a "happy ending", and if Judge does not rule in Motorola's favor
in their appeal and reinsitututes the ban, that Motorola will be forbidden to
sell the 68030.  Would this not seem like a rational assertion?

 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 179       Thu May 17, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 01:11 EDT

Well, I should mention that the 030 is so important to the US computer
industry that Congress would actually settle Hatachi's widget if the problem
persists. I really believe Motorola can put enough pressure on to get a law
passed making them right :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 180       Thu May 17, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     at 01:25 EDT

Michael,

On the surface, it does seem like a fair assertion, and a reasonable  concern.
But when you read the whole opinion, it smacks much more of  "Get out of here,
and settle this yourselves. Here's a little incentive to help BOTH of you get
to the table."

Again, not trying to flame you at all on the TT shipping to Australia. Just
trying to discern where the info was coming from. I highly doubt that they
will be there then. Although anything is possible.

Jim, interesting idea. Now, if the Congress could only get it done it time.
They might have better luck wading thru the courts!! Might be faster!!!!!

regards,

Bob
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 181       Thu May 17, 1990
DOUG.W                       at 03:17 EDT

If the judge reinstated the 68030 ban (enforcably), I suspect Motorola could
come up with a bunch of cash in a hurry to settle at least temporarily.

--Doug
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 182       Thu May 17, 1990
OUTRIDER [Terry May]         at 03:34 PDT

CPU Report...

Big deal -- Atari U.S. was stating back in November that we would be getting
the TT in the 1st quarter of 1990.  Obviously, it's all talk until the
machines hit the stores.

...Terry
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 183       Thu May 17, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 13:34 EDT

I would suspect Motorola could resort to buying Hatachi if it came down to
life or death. A $48 billion company flush with cash is not something you want
mad at you.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 184       Fri May 18, 1990
BREHBOCK                     at 07:06 CDT

Jim, my, you've been in fine form lately :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 185       Fri May 18, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         at 13:51 EDT

 Remember though, Jim.. Hitachi is NOT a small company by any means.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 186       Fri May 18, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     at 18:10 EDT

I still LIKE the idea though. "So, ya wanna play rough, eh! OK, we're just
gonna have to buy you, that should solve any future problems!!!"

Yes indeed, Jim! You *have* been in fine form lately!!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 187       Sat May 19, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 00:15 EDT

Jim Allen...developer/entertainer...:-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 188       Sat May 19, 1990
BREHBOCK                     at 00:08 CDT

Could we have a Wednesday night conference where Jim just does stand-up?
 Ooooo...what-a-crowd :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 189       Sat May 19, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            at 02:20 CDT

I am concern how does Parsec board work with TT up to now?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 190       Sat May 19, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 at 12:14 EDT

If the TT030 has a cartridge port, and it is compatible with ST cartridges ...
then the ParSec should work on the TT.  Better still, perhaps Elm Tech will
make a VME card featuring the ParSec hardware...hmmmm?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 191       Sun May 20, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 00:36 EDT

I think they could do even better witha vme card.

Nuck, nuck, nuck :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 192       Mon May 21, 1990
J.AYO [Coconut Joe]          at 00:37 EDT

Boy this message base is turning into, like a lo  cal BBS with over-zealous
kids invent  ing a series of a pack of lies about Atari Europe and then
  repeating it so much, that they begin to believe it!

First off on the Parseq board....  Have   you seen the specs on the TT itself?
It seems the TT   will blow out the parseq board all by itself with no help at
all  !     You know how the Amiga can show 4096 colors in   640 X 400 mode but
 it works itself to   eath with no animation or time to do anything else to
show that picture....  the TT seems will easily show 4096 colors in 640 X 480
and still have phenominal animating, sound and gaming abilities  .

John Towns  :
   I also happen to have an Amiga along with ST.  While I personally
   rank Amiga as being "tZ THE most difficult" to use computer since CPM  ,
   some tricks are nice in multitasking...  is that being included in
   the TT?     I have no desire for full blown multitasking, but   like when
    you copy programs  , instead of being stopped with a busy bee mouse,
   it is nice to be able to resize windows and stmaybe s  et up a next
   series of copies or even doup ble click on the next program to run.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 194       Mon May 21, 1990
ISD2 [Julius O.]             at 23:10 EDT

Yes, Atari Canada is doing a press conference early next month at a big
computer show in Montreal.  I think the TT will be in there somewhere...
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 195       Mon May 21, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 23:49 EDT

O. Julius...:-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 197       Tue May 22, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 at 19:09 EDT

 J. Ayo,
  Obviously, you haven't seen the specs on the ParSec.  The TT can only
 display 16 colors in its 640 x 480 mode.  The ParSec can EASILY do 16 c
 colors in 1024 x 768!  The ParSec 4768 with the 8768-8 or -16 modules can
 increase that to 256 colors and/or 32,000 colors from a 16.8 Million
 color pallette.  The TT can't.  The ParSec also uses the premeire graphics
 chip in the rest of the computer world, the TI 34010-50.  It runs at 50MHz,
 the TT runs at 16MHz.  The ParSec also has video configurations of 4 Planne
 - 2x4 Plane, 8 Plane, and 15 Plane.  The Amiga 3000 can't touch this.
  I think you must be confused.
  Still, I think a TT/ParSec combo is a logical goal for Elmtech.  And
it
 probably could be put on a VME card, right Jimbo?
 (Thought I said that in my other message-)
 Paul
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 198       Thu May 24, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            at 02:24 CDT

Yeah, I know about Parsec stuffs, but it ain't useful to its maturity level
because there is NO Renderman-type CAD softwares to support this! Im begging
every graphics/animation programmers to write one to use this neat Parsec
board.  There is MacRenderman out for the Macworld now, why not on ST?  Even
though the user love (or pride) having photorealistic imagery through their
numbers of 3D CAD/REndering packages, it is still slow.  But however, it paids
the bills in some small business scale.

For FULL-FLedged Pixar-quality rendering softwares, take a look at the
MacUsers (or MacWorld) page 136.  I bet you 1 million dollar you will cry!!
Even TT will cry without the help of the programmers!   Jeez- I almost quit
supporting the Atari world because of MAC and Amiga!

<breathing heavily>  Please help me to calm down before I quit here. I don't
understand why there is no 3D photorealistic software in the ST world?  Or did
I buy the wrong computer (520ST)?   I would even die by the time I got TT in
the future with no "5-year dream" in the future by having Renderman-compatible
rendering software package.

If Parsec supports TT with Renderman-quality softwares, then I would be very
most likely to be happy than ever rather than buying a $12,000 Mac II! Mike (I
am still very depressed unless I heard a word Renderman for STe/TT).
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 199       Thu May 24, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 12:41 EDT

There are already a couple dozen VME video cards with 34010/34020 chips. Trust
me, the image processing world lives on the VME machines so the options are
wide open.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 200       Fri May 25, 1990
ISD2 [Julius O.]             at 01:50 EDT

VME video cards?  What form factor/type/etc are they?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 201       Fri May 25, 1990
CYCLONE                      at 00:54 CDT

Of course, there is no shortage of powerful graphics cards already for VME.

Isn't the TI 34020 more powerful?

Anyone see the announcement of Motorola's new 96002 Multimedia chip?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 202       Sat May 26, 1990
PSINC                        at 01:20 EDT

But Motorola also has a countersuit against Hitachi regarding microcontrollers
- I think both companies will settle.  In any case, thousands of '030s are in
distribution, a short ban wouldn't cause any ill effects.
  After reading _many_ of the mags and reports out there you get a "balanced"
opinion.  I don't think Motorola has much to worry about _as long_ as it takes
the "hint" and settles.
  Both companies were being a little childish, it neverhad to go to court.
  Mark
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 207       Sun May 27, 1990
ISD2 [Julius O.]             at 23:32 EDT

Any idea what the form'/interface factor of VME video cards is?  OR  Any idea
of what the form/interface factor of most of the VME cards is?

Or, in other words, will any of those gnarly VME cards actually fit into a TT?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 208       Mon May 28, 1990
DERRICK                      at 14:29 EDT

ISD, I could not have asked the question better! I tried to point out that all
along. I guess Atari will promise us an expansion chassis like they did when
the ST first came out.
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 209       Mon May 28, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 23:48 EDT

You should look in EDN, Electronic Design, Imaging and other indutrial
industrial trade rags for the ads from VME vendors. Most have extensive
catalogs. For instance National instruments has a 3U IEEE488 card for
interfacing to lab equipment. The stuff is there but you've got to look for
it...they aren't looking for you :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 210       Tue May 29, 1990
DERRICK                      at 02:41 EDT

Allen, VME buss chassis, cable, plus TT, what is the final cost?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 211       Tue May 29, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     at 18:35 EDT

Derrick,

Your asking to Jim to project a final cost, without Atari having said what the
cost for the TT will be!! Price has not yet been established. And yes, we have
tried VME cards in the TT here in Sunnyvale. We even have some ideas for some
cards that we would like to do ourselves, or contract to have done.

Bob Brodie

PS-Mike (MAS2743) I'm not ignoring you. It's just that my technobabel and your
technobabel are of different dialects. TRANSLATION: I don't deal with
Renderman graphics, that's TOWNS and rest of the Tech types turf!!
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 212       Tue May 29, 1990
ISD2 [Julius O.]             at 20:42 EDT

Thanks for the pointer, Jim.  I've been looking in a few industry mags and
have only seen ads for the bigger sizes...will have to start digging for their
smaller cousins.  :-)

First VME card I want to see for the TT is a high performance video card. At
least 1024x768 by 256 colors with a graphics co-processor onboard (such as a
TI34020 or i860)...I already have such a board in an Atari PC5...now I want
one for the TT.  This would allow a really gnarly implementation of
Unix...that is, you run Unix on the '30 and X on the video card for really
snappy performance.

What else...oh yes...Ethernet!  So it can sit on any existing networks.
(Appletalk/Localtalk just dosen't cut it speed wise here..)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 213       Tue May 29, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    at 21:21 EDT

Well AMD or Western Digital just came out with a complete single chip
Ethernet controller so that part should be cheap now. TCP/IP and NFS are well
documented and PC source code for drivers is readily available.

For video I would like to see  24bit stuff on the board, say 640x480 up to
1024x768 SW selectable and all at 16 million colors. It is kinda neat, I have
a neat design rolling around my head for a very inexpensive overall circuit :-
) This type of thing exists on the Mac for $999 list so a combo board with a
24bit video/Ethernet/GCR/whatever would not be too expensive, maybe $2000
list. Think of it 1024x768x16 million colors/ single chip Ethernet (thick +
thin)/GCR/other wonders...all for only $2000 plus the TT. And the TT would be
around $3500? to be competitive with CBM and Appollo. The total would be very
competitive with a Mac  setup...all we would need is for Dave to get one of
those "color" patches for quickdraw like Radius sells for older SEs.

It's food for thought but there ain't no TTs out there yet so don't loose any
sleep over it yet :-)
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 214       Tue May 29, 1990
DERRICK                      at 22:07 EDT

Bob(Atari Corp.), are you guys going to redesign the TT's casing?
 ------------
Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 215       Tue May 29, 1990
K.ALBURY [Blade Runner]      at 22:24 EDT

PLEASE do something with the design.  The keyboard is great but I
 think the case should look more professional.  Something like a  Mega case.
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Category 14,  Topic 35
Message 216       Tue May 29, 1990
R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant]        at 23:19 PDT

I personally like the TT case: it's got room for a hard drive. That's a major
step for Atari. I don't care if it's ugly as sin. It's going under the desk.

Jim: don't lose any sleep over it, he says. arrrrrgh.
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