ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/old/DIGEST55

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    (AND OTHER NYC DOWNTOWN MUSICIANS)

    posts: [e-mail]    sub/unsub: [e-mail]

    *** BACK ISSUES of this digest can be obtained in one of two ways:
    ***       1) anonymous FTP at cs.uwp.edu
    ***       2) via my homepage:  http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mpj1

    DIGEST #55, 5-11-95
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From [e-mail]  Tue May  9 17:01:26 1995
Subject: Re: ZORN DIGEST #54

>Who are those Borbetomagus?? Are they from downtown New York so we can talk
>about them on this list?
>I read about their LP "Snuff Jazz" that its "probaly the most violent sound
>put onto vinyl" Sounds pretty cool to me...

Borbetomagus are not necessarily downtown musicians- the only reason  I
brought them up was because someone from Chicago was looking for "the show
of the decade" and if anything is-- than it is the Borbeto show in Chicago
on June 9th.  They primarily consist of two saxophonists and a guitarist
though they are frequently joined by people on electronics and the like.
If you haven't heard them--words and descriptions are inappropriate.  I
highly recommend the pummeling experience of listening to them though.
"Sound takes on new properties at extreme volumes, or rather, the fragile
human ear percieves it that way" (Peter Maragasak from liner notes to
Borbetomagus album Buncha Hair That Long).  All of their stuff is available
through Agaric Records, 3 Haring Avenue, Sparkill,NY 10976 and most likely
Forced Exposure.
andrew c
saxophones aren't pretty

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From [e-mail]  Tue May  9 18:20:39 1995
Subject: Naked City

Jonas aka [e-mail]  sez:
>I dont get it. First I read somewhere that Naked City broke up because Zorn
>stopped writing music for them. Then I read in the article on The Boredoms
>in Mondo 2000 that "Yamaoto also plays regulary with John Zorns Naked city"

    Hmmm...that's the second time I've heard that piece of
    incorrect information. Yamamoto, the guitarist for the
    Boredoms, hasn't played with Naked City. Yamatsuka Eye
    certainly has though.

    Well, at least now there is a source for the rumor.  :)

>Hey didnt they break up??? Then I read about Radio, Part 2 by Naked City. It

    Not sure about breaking up. I think Zorn just stopped
    writing new material for that particular ensemble.

>says that its a record with Naked City doing cover versions of some old stuff.
>At the end it says "never released. in fact never recorded". Are they going
>to record it or what????

    My understanding is that he changed his mind about
    recording that particular idea. Personally, I would
    love to be able hear some of the covers they performed
    live. Especially, the swingin' boppin' ones.

    Maybe he'll change his mind.

>Do Naked City still exist???

    In our collective consciousness and on record...yeah,
    they still exist.    heh.

    mike

[e-mail] ------------------------------------------- [e-mail]
-=work=-             "Another nerd with a soulpatch"              -=home=-
                      http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/
-------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ---------

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From [e-mail]  Tue May  9 18:29:53 1995
Subject: Borbetomagus

Jonas V. aka [e-mail] sez:
>Who are those Borbetomagus?? Are they from downtown New York so we can talk
>about them on this list?
>I read about their LP "Snuff Jazz" that its "probaly the most violent sound
>put onto vinyl" Sounds pretty cool to me...

    Borbetomagus are a trio from NY that are intense, loud
    and free. They are two saxophones and a guitar. They
    have been around for over 15 years and have almost
    as many releases (in true DIY spirit, most are self
    released). When they played in Oakland's Stork Club,
    the sax amplifier caught FIRE due to the extended,
    extreme sound it had to project. Dense improv...not
    for the squimish.

    mike

[e-mail] ------------------------------------------- [e-mail]
-=work=-             "Another nerd with a soulpatch"              -=home=-
                      http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/
-------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ---------

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From [e-mail]  Wed May 10 00:52:18 1995
Subject: LOCUS SOLUS

I while ago I was told by a gal at Japan Overseas that "Locus Solus" on Eva
was out of print.  Since I have been wanting to pick this up for quite some
time now, I was relieved to hear in #50 that Ajax mail order carries it &
that Tzadik and the new label Evva will be reissuing most of the Eva stuff.

My question is:  What is Ajax's address, phone, email & how can I get a copy of
                 their catalog?

Any info would be appreciated,

-Patrick

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From [e-mail]  Wed May 10 07:07:17 1995
Subject: the classic guide to strategy II

can anyone tell me about this recording? I notice it has Togawa Jun from
Geurnica (anyone else know this group?) on it. Who are the other musicians and
what do they play/sing on the record?

Is it still available?

simon lucas

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From [e-mail]  Wed May 10 13:09:49 1995
Subject: Record Stores in San Francisco

I am going to San Francisco over Memorial Day Weekend and was wondering if
anyone could give me names and addresses of some good record stores for
Zorn/Laswell/experimental type of music? Thanks

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From [e-mail]  Wed May 10 15:36:19 1995
Subject: 4th Masada CD on DIW

I heard an interesting rumor about the 4th Masada CD on DIW...the one that
is only available as a bonus directly from DIW if you buy the first 3 in
the series.  A buddy at Tower told me he heard that DIW might release a
box set of the Masada recordings which would include the 4th CD.

-Lynn ([e-mail])

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From [e-mail]  Wed May 10 18:43:54 1995
Subject: Painkiller at the Black Cat in D.C.

Painkiller
Black Cat
Washington D.C.
May 9, 1995

The members of Painkiller took the stage at the Black Cat and gave the small
crowd their own brand of controlled chaos. From the moment they started
playing to the end, they were all business - no interaction with the crowd,
no special effects, no light shows, no bullshit, just music.

When I used to listen to their music, I never imagined actually seeing them
live. But, there I was, front row, leaning on the stage, Bill Laswell
not more than 5 feet away from me, the power of his bass vibrating my
pants legs.

The place wasn't packed, but there was 100 or so people, who stood and
stared in awe at these 3 improv masters. They played for only an hour, and
there were no encores (previous shows on the tour lasted 2 hours, and had
encores). I suspect they were pissed at the sound guy. Before the show, the
sound guy was having big problems with John Zorn's mic, and I'm not sure they
ever got it fixed.

I was not impressed with the overall sound. The bass was *way* too loud.
So were the drums. Or maybe, the sax was too low. With the Painkiller music
I have, Zorn's sax is emphasized. All the subtleties can be heard.
There were times at the concert when I could barely hear him. Does anyone
know who/what was controlling Zorn's echo effect on his sax? I didn't see a
pedal near him. He was getting some really wicked results with the echoing. He
would echo, then overlay that to get this cool effect.

Some of the stuff they did was similar to Buried Secrets. They did an ambient
tune as well. Laswell led the way with this one, with his bass and numerous
pedals he was controlling. Zorn and Harris shared the vocals. Once again
Zorn was getting a wicked echo effect with his screams, and I'm not sure how
he was doing it. Harris' vocals were those back of the throat screams. I
really thought he was gonna swallow the mic for a while there. And once again,
the vocals could barely be heard, because the music was TOO LOUD.

Mick Harris' drumming was nothing short of awesome. He beat the shit out of
those drums. I've never seen anyone attack the drums like him. He snuck in
a few old Napalm Death like drum beats which was cool. We heard some people
saying that the 3 guys just show up at these gigs with Zorn's sax, and
Laswell's bass, nothing else. All the rest of the equipment is borrowed.
If this is the case, I feel sorry for who ever owns the drums Mick Harris
was pounding on.

Overall, I was a little disappointed. I was expecting a 2-hour show. I also
read reviews that said Mick Harris came out and screamed some vocals for
awhile. He didn't do this at this show. They did not come back for encores
(though the crowd really wasn't begging them). And, the sound was all messed
up. But, I'm glad I got to see them, and will defintely see them if they
come around again.

Seeya,                                                          [e-mail]
Gary
"Jazz! Phhhbt!... they just make it up as they go along. I could do that..."
- Homer J. Simpson

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From [e-mail]  Wed May 10 20:49:16 1995
Subject: Re: ZORN DIGEST #54

>> Sorry, Ruins is the Bass/drums duo of Yoshida and Masuda.
>> They have about 8 albums out and are pretty wild live.
>
>A punk/hardcore duo with nly bass and drums gotta be cool. Anyway, Im
>thinking about picking up one of their albums, where should I start??

I'd start with Burning Stone or Stonehenge, both on Shimmy and easily
available in the US.  Grab the Ruins Early Works too if you can.  Also
there's a 10 song 7" that's extra special cool and includes scores to their
pieces.  Very neat.  See them live if at all possible.  Ruins are very
cool.

>Who are those Borbetomagus?? Are they from downtown New York so we can talk
>about them on this list?
>I read about their LP "Snuff Jazz" that its "probaly the most violent sound
>put onto vinyl" Sounds pretty cool to me...

Borbetomagus are super noisy.  I'm not so hot on them on vinyl (one album
is probably all you need, pick any one.)  But go see them live if you want
a mind blowing, ear piercing, gut wrenching experience of sound as
physicality.  They literally filled the space I saw them at with noise and
you could walk around and almost feel it swirling around you like water.
Definitely an experience not to miss if you care about music.


--
         I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep             !
                 like my grandfather,                       !    Peter Risser
                not screaming in terror                     ! [e-mail]
                 like his passengers.                       !

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From [e-mail]  Wed May 10 20:56:19 1995
Subject: Painkiller live/My First Post

I just thought I'd share with you my disappointment last night that Painkiller
was playing live in my town last night, and I was too sick to go (I was crying
too hard last night to post).  I figure if anyone can relate, you can.
<P>
Also, just a couple of weeks ago, Golden Palominos were in town and cancelled
(DC area -- the Bayou).  Two questions:
(1)  Would Bill Laswell have been with them (not that this was a criteria for
going, I am just curious; I have _yet_ to see him play live)?
(2)  Does anyone know why they cancelled?  Was it just that night, or leg, or
what?
Forgive me if Golden Palominos is too off-topic.
        [ not off topic at all -Matt, zorn-mgr ]
<P>
Does anyone have a Bill Laswell (a) Discography; (b) Production work
discography; (c) session work discography; (d) whatever...discography.  I
specifically include the last category not as a cop out, but because I am a
little confused by Cypher 7 -- is he involved or not?
I remain,
Peter aka
Dusty Chalk
PS  Hi!  Greetings.

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From [e-mail]  Thu May 11 07:08:23 1995
Subject: an 80's Celluloid japanses comp.

Probably nothing to do with John Zorn, whatesoever, but:

I read recently, I think in the Japanese issue of Wire (which I cannot find at
this time) that sometime in the 80's Celluloid released a compilation of
recordings by underground Japanese musicians, compiled by Fred Frith.

Does anyone know this record? Is it available anywhere?

simon lucas

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>From [e-mail]  Mon May  8 00:32:00 1995
Subject: Painkiller

After only finding out about the Minneapolis Painkiller show Friday night,
I'm happy to say I was able to get a ticket & also successfully make the 6
hour trip (by bus) to see them on Saturday.

What can I say:  Absolutely brilliant!!  The crowd could do nothing except
stand in awe watching the three masters at work.  They played nearly a two
hour set of improvs built around selections from "Execution Ground" and
even came out for a short encore.  Got to chat with both Zorn & Mick . . .
and got John Hancocks from all three.  Definitely check them out during one
of their last few dates if you have the chance.  Not to be missed!!

- Patrick

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>From [e-mail]  Mon May  8 02:41:16 1995
Subject: Painkiller in Chapel Hill

This is a sketchy response to the Painkiller show in Chapel Hill, NC on
5/7.  I may fill it out some later, but I wanted to get my early thoughts
out to people who could be seeing them soon so they can have a little
context to decide if they want to go, etc.

While there were a lot of things I can find to be critical about, I
generally enjoyed the show and would encourage everyone to attend.  The
pieces they played were much more loosely combined then on either of the
domestic releases.  The general idea was this (and many of these threads
could have been specific to the sound system in the club): Laswell played
a lot - sometimes overplaying, usually heavily treated and manipulated
stuff.  Zorn played sporadically, always using a pretty heavy - and
suprising constant delay patch.  Much of the Zorn stuff used drones
countered with those lucious runs of his.  Mick Harris pounded, but his
drum sound was thin compared to the heavily treated wailing of the guys
up front.  His dub parts worked a lot better in terms of balance.

The playing was free and often really full, but there could have been a
lot more restraint.  It seemed like often Harris was trying to be RS
Jackson (see Last Exit, Power Tools) and he just doesn't have the time
keeping while running around the kit thing down.  Both Zorn and Harris
did some non-verbal vocalizations which worked well in the direction of
the ambient disc.  There almost always seemed to be someone playing
outside of the context of what the group was playing, which sometimes
worked and sometimes held things back.  There were a ton of solos.  Most of
the pieces were long, which ran counter to my expectation.  The crowd (pretty
good turnout - around 225) really responded well, calling for two encores.

I liked it, but I thought it was a little easy and less tight then I felt
like I deserved from the three of them.  I was overwhelmed (and sometimes
a little put upon) by Laswell's chops - I had never seen him before.  I'm
interested to hear how the shows were elsewhere.

Also it did not seem like either Laswell or Zorn were much interested in
being in the rock star mode: little stage presence, shitty interaction
with the crowd, didn't like the lights, fucked with the sound guy alot...
Oh well, I guess you can't expect your idols to be polite too.


Bob Boster
[e-mail]
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