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From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@ctech.smtc.net> Subject: new Parker Date: 01 Jun 1999 16:02:21 -0400 So, anyone heard the new Evan Parker Electro-Acoustic Ensemble disc yet and care to comment? Thanks. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dante Sawyer <jazziz@sprintmail.com> Subject: douglas disco Date: 01 Jun 1999 16:15:57 +0000 i used to know where there was a really in-depth dave douglas discography on-line. does anyone know the address? dante - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@ctech.smtc.net> Subject: Re: douglas disco Date: 01 Jun 1999 18:37:09 -0400 Dante Sawyer wrote: > i used to know where there was a really in-depth dave douglas > discography on-line. does anyone know the address? > > dante http://www.nwu.edu/WNUR/jazz/artists/douglas.dave/discog.html -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net> Subject: Jeanne Lee Date: 01 Jun 1999 19:43:40 -0400 Any recommendations of available recordings with Lee as leader? In fact, are there any? Can't think of any off the top of my head, though I'm pretty sure they exist. I'd also be interested in recs of her work with Gunter Hampel though, again, I'm not sure how many, if any, of his dates on Birth are currently on disc. Thanks. Brian Olewnick (the above prompted after a listen to her beautiful work on Escalator which album, after all these years, continues to dazzle). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Jeanne Lee Date: 01 Jun 1999 16:55:36 -0700 On Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:43:40 -0400 Brian Olewnick wrote: > > Any recommendations of available recordings with Lee as leader? In fact, I don't think that there is any. But by saying that, I am sure somebody will contradict me :-). > are there any? Can't think of any off the top of my head, though I'm > pretty sure they exist. I'd also be interested in recs of her work with > Gunter Hampel though, again, I'm not sure how many, if any, of his dates > on Birth are currently on disc. Thanks. THE 8TH OF JULY is one to procrastinate on anything else until you have it! Patrice (who assumes that you have BLASE by Archie Shepp). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Jeanne Lee Date: 01 Jun 1999 20:00:32 -0500 Brian Olewnick wrote: > > Any recommendations of available recordings with Lee as leader? There is a fine recording of her with cellist David Eyges from a few years back... Here and Now on Word Of Mouth Records... and she does some beautiful work on Jane Bunnett's The Water Is Wide on Denon. One of my favorite singers. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: Jeanne Lee Date: 01 Jun 1999 20:24:17 -0400 Brian Olewnick wrote: > > Any recommendations of available recordings with Lee as leader? In fact, > are there any? Lookie here: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/RIVERS.disc.html#74.02.00 Rrrr -- Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, William Parker, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman Discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ***Very Various Music For Sale: ***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Dorough (was Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #666) Date: 01 Jun 1999 21:16:24 -0400 (EDT) Nope, Dave Frishberg wrote that paen to baseball and he's not even that interesting a singer. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net (who still dieslikes baseball as much as he dislieksd all other team sports, and as a matter of fact wasn't to impressded with Frishberg when he saw him live). On Fri, 28 May 1999 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > Isn't Dorough also responsible for the all-time best baseball song, 'Van Lingo > Mungo'? You know, the one whose lyrics consist of nothing but the names of > ballplayers and which always gets passed over for the sappy 'Talkin' Baseball'? > > Brian Olewnick > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JazzDr@aol.com Subject: Willem Breuker Recommendations Date: 01 Jun 1999 22:06:24 EDT Certainly one of my favorites is "Bob's Gallery" It's the disc with the Far Side cartoon on the cover. "Metropolis" and the mostly Gershwin disc with Vera Beths are also very good! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Matthew Shipp interview Date: 01 Jun 1999 23:26:03 -0400 Greetings, In the latest edition of Perfect Sound Forever online magazine <http://www.furious.com/perfect>, you'll find (among other things): MATTHEW SHIPP Extensive interview with the brilliant pianist We're always looking for good material so let us know if you have any writing or ideas for upcoming issues. See you online, Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Jeanne Lee / Archie Shepp Date: 01 Jun 1999 23:39:01 -0400 (EDT) > > are there any? Can't think of any off the top of my head, though I'm > > pretty sure they exist. I'd also be interested in recs of her work with > > Gunter Hampel though, again, I'm not sure how many, if any, of his dates > > on Birth are currently on disc. Thanks. > > THE 8TH OF JULY is one to procrastinate on anything else until you have it! > > Patrice (who assumes that you have BLASE by Archie Shepp). Who is on this album (BLASE) and how does it compare to his other stuff. I've listened to Four for Trane, Mama Too Tight, and Live in San Francisco by Shepp and liked them for the most part but none have grabbed me as much as I expected considering some reviews I've seen. I'm asking b/c I've seen BLASE in a local store, on the Charly label. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Willem Breuker Date: 01 Jun 1999 21:38:48 -0700 I found "De Onderste Steen" a good introduction, spanning a fair amount of Breuker's esoteric breadth (selections from 1972-1991 or so). "Deze kant op, dames," on the other hand, I haven't been able to arouse any fascination for despite some positive reviews.... NP: Lee Morgan "All that jazz" (1970 live on DJM, a boot of some type I suppose and not Lee at his best but with some nice moments) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: wow Date: 02 Jun 1999 01:14:22 EDT how about this for a day of music, from the new gigs listings on the Euro Free Improv site, http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/: 27 June: Appleby Jazz Festival 2.30pm - 7.00pm: EVAN PARKER'S FREEZONE in the Redundant St Michaels Church (next to the main venue) with 2.45 - 3.30 Paul Lytton Solo + Marilyn Crispell/Phil Wachsman Duo; 3.40 - 4.20 Barry Guy Solo + Evan Parker / Phil Wachsman Duo; 4.30 - 5.10 Barry Guy / Phil Wachsman Duo + Evan Parker Solo; 5.20 - 6.0 Evan Parker / Barry Guy Duo + Phil Wachsman Solo; 6.10 - 7.00 Marilyn Crispell , Barry Guy Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Geert Buelens <buelens@uia.ua.ac.be> Subject: Re: Jeanne Lee Date: 02 Jun 1999 08:57:47 +0200 (MET DST) Not really 'Lee as leader' but her records (and concerts) with Mal Waldron are worth checking out. geert On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Brian Olewnick wrote: > Any recommendations of available recordings with Lee as leader? In fact, > are there any? Can't think of any off the top of my head, though I'm > pretty sure they exist. I'd also be interested in recs of her work with > Gunter Hampel though, again, I'm not sure how many, if any, of his dates > on Birth are currently on disc. Thanks. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Pino Minafra's Sud Ensemble Date: 02 Jun 1999 12:39:41 GMT0BST Just a quick note to thank those who enthused about this band, which turned out a solid show at Bath on Saturday, although I think Pino should have been given a separate vocal mic for his blatherings. Was it Ken who asked whether Actis Dilo still wore Vulcan ears? Whoever, the answer is no, but his playing doesn't seem to suffer from their absence. A lot of the material played was from "Sudori" which I can highly recommend. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: Pachora Date: 02 Jun 1999 09:57:18 -0300 Hi I'd like to know if anyone can point where can I get information regarding the description and types of instruments played by Pachora's members (I mean electric saz, tres, tamboura, dumbek, etc). Thanks in advance. Hugo. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dante Sawyer <jazziz@sprintmail.com> Subject: re: jeanne lee Date: 02 Jun 1999 09:59:56 +0000 try to find a copy of conspiracy!. i think it was issued on two labels: earthform and seed. it's hard to find but worth it. features hampel, sam rivers, dave holland, and others. pretty killing. Any recommendations of available recordings with Lee as leader? In fact,are there any? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Willem Breuker recommendations (No Zorn Content) Date: 02 Jun 1999 07:36:01 -0700 On Mon, 31 May 1999 12:32:50 +0400 "Edward Lutiy" wrote: > > I want to order a Willem Breuker CD but I don't know what to choose. Can > somebody please recommend some possible to find essential records. If you are interested by the Kollektief (which has been WB's main vehicle), I would recommend the (early) following two (which are both CD reissues and should still be available): *** - A PARIS/SUMMER MUSIC: Willem Breuker Kollektief 1978 - Marge (France), 05 (LP) 1993 - Marge (France), 152012 (CD) *** - LIVE AT THE DONAUESCHINGEN MUSIC FESTIVAL: Willem Breuker Kollektief 1976 - MPS (Germany), ??? (LP) 1995 - MPS (Germany), 529089-2 (CD) Both were recorded in the late 70's, well before the band started to specia- lize in "a la maniere de". The music succeeds in combining fun, great playing (amazing free blowing solos), fantastic songs (that stick even after the 1st listening). A PARIS, for example, can give you a good idea of how much pleasure attending a WBK concert might have been. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Jeanne Lee / Archie Shepp Date: 02 Jun 1999 08:11:59 -0700 On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:39:01 -0400 (EDT) William York wrote: > > > > are there any? Can't think of any off the top of my head, though I'm > > > pretty sure they exist. I'd also be interested in recs of her work with > > > Gunter Hampel though, again, I'm not sure how many, if any, of his dates > > > on Birth are currently on disc. Thanks. > > > > THE 8TH OF JULY is one to procrastinate on anything else until you have it! > > > > Patrice (who assumes that you have BLASE by Archie Shepp). > > Who is on this album (BLASE) and how does it compare to his other stuff. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It is very varied: protest song, blues, standard, and to top the cake, one of the most amazing power trio: Shepp + Favors + Jones. > I've listened to Four for Trane, Mama Too Tight, and Live in San Francisco > by Shepp and liked them for the most part but none have grabbed me as much > as I expected considering some reviews I've seen. I'm asking b/c I've It is my favorite record by Shepp because it displays in a very successful way the multiple talents of Shepp. All the songs are remarkably played. I am tempted to say that if you don't like BLASE, you don't like Shepp at all. This is hence a very good investement :-). > seen BLASE in a local store, on the Charly label. ^^^^^^^^^ And it is getting kind of hard to find... 023 - BLASE: Archie Shepp 1/ My Angel (Shepp) 2/ Blase (Shepp) 3/ There Is A Balm In Gilead (Shepp) 4/ Sophisticated Lady (Ellington, Brown, Hardwicke) 5/ Touareg (Shepp) Recorded in Paris on August 16, 1969 Archie Shepp: tenor; Jeanne Lee (1-4): vocals; Chicago Beau (1,2): harmoni- ca; Julio Finn (1,2): harmonica); Dave Burrell (1-4): piano; Malachi Favors: bass; Philly Joe Jones (1,2,4,5): drums; Lester Bowie (3): trumpet, flugel- horn. 1968 (?) - BYG Records (France), ??? (LP) 1968 (?) - Affinity, ??? (LP) 1987 - Charly (UK), 77 (CD) 1994 - Charly (UK), Le Jazz CD 26 (CD) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Paul Haines, etc. Date: 02 Jun 1999 14:01:36 -0500 Continuing my EOTH-related queries, does anyone know of any publications of Haines' poetry (or prose, for that matter), web-based or hard copy, music-related or otherwise? In my net rummagings for same, I did come across a pretty interesting blow-by-blow recounting of the creation of EOTH, written by Carla Bley in 1972 at: http://stadtgarten.de/bley.html She mentions the filming of much of the recording (including some by Shirley Clarke); has this ever surfaced? She also cites a ratio of 20 to 1, recorded material to used. Kinda mouth-watering, that. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Willem Breuker recommendations (No Zorn Content) Date: 02 Jun 1999 15:44:18 EDT In a message dated 6/2/99 10:39:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: << *** - LIVE AT THE DONAUESCHINGEN MUSIC FESTIVAL: Willem Breuker Kollektief >> Wayside had this title for a *very* inexpensive price recently- I want to say $5 or close to that. Worth checking out fer sher! spinnin': Joni Mitchell- The Hissing of Summer Lawns (no Zorn content) =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: benjamin elliot axelrad <beaxelra@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: request for reviews Date: 02 Jun 1999 15:09:37 -0500 (CDT) I know this has already been discussed but can anyone offer a brief review (good - very good - excellent) of Jaap Blonk/ Lonberg-Holm/ Zerang "First Meeting" Blonk + 2 Dutch guys "Improvisers" Also, the following to In Situ discs: Leandre/Zingaro Zingaro/D. Lazro/2 french guys Thanks, Ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dante Sawyer <jazziz@sprintmail.com> Subject: alice coltrane discography Date: 02 Jun 1999 16:21:39 +0000 does anyone know where i can locate online a good alice coltrane discography? dante - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@ctech.smtc.net> Subject: Re: request for reviews Date: 02 Jun 1999 16:27:20 -0400 benjamin elliot axelrad wrote: > Also, the following to In Situ discs: > > Leandre/Zingaro > Zingaro/D. Lazro/2 french guys I haven't heard either of these two, but Zingaro's solo violin disc on that label is really great. Definitely my favorite recording of his that I've heard. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: alice coltrane discography Date: 02 Jun 1999 16:45:28 EDT In a message dated 6/2/99 4:23:18 PM, jazziz@sprintmail.com writes: << does anyone know where i can locate online a good alice coltrane discography? >> http://members.aol.com/ishorst/love/index.html Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tenmk6@aol.com Subject: Re: re: jeanne lee Date: 02 Jun 1999 17:28:39 EDT jeanne lee's work w/ g hampel/marion brown/leo smith, etc is very nice... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: request for reviews Date: 02 Jun 1999 19:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Just picked up the below at the Vision Fest and today was only able to play it through about half way. From a quick listen it sounds good, but definitely more on the "classical" (whatever that means) than the "jazz" (whatever that means) sides of Lea & Zing. Since I was doig work, running up and down stairs at the same time etc. it seems to me that there was some vocalizing from both parties in there as well. After seeing Joelle play with McPhee and Hemmingway last week, I just *had* to buy another Leandre disc. I already own her hatology with Fritz Hauser and Urs Leimgruber, which is strongly recommended. Now if only someone would put out a disc featuring those three plus Marilyn Crispell as played at FIMAV last year... Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net (N.P. The Fred Anderson Trio - Live At The Velvet Lounge -Okka Disk) On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, benjamin elliot axelrad wrote: > Also, the following to In Situ discs: > > Leandre/Zingaro > > Thanks, > Ben > > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: Re: sprawl Date: 02 Jun 1999 22:55:40 EDT i just picked this cd up yesterday. i've haven't had a chance to sit down and listen to it but so far the bits i have listened to have been great. sorry i can't give you guys much more than that. jt << This is from the Aquarius records new releases list. This is news to me and I figured some others might be interested. Has anyone heard this? SPRAWL s/t (Trost) cd 13.98 Noise/jazz/improv/rock unit Sprawl has a lineup that includes saxophone legend Peter Brotzmann, bassist extraordinare William Parker and reedsman Alex Buess (of Swiss jazz-industrialists 16-17 as well as Ice and God). Since any of those names by themselves pretty much insures top quality, we had high expectations for this disc, and it's no disappointment. Also in the band, guitarist Stephan Wittiuer and drummer Michael Wertmuller (Alboth!, Caspar Brotzmann Massaker). Fans of those bands, Last Exit, etc., must take note. Looks like a 1997 release, but we've not come across it until now, due to it being a Austrian import, and it was only just reviewed in The Wire last issue. WY >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Lee Morgan in '70, '71 Date: 02 Jun 1999 21:55:56 -0700 Two inquiries re: Lee Morgan I have this LP on DJM (England) called "All that Jazz" recorded live " in Los Angeles in the summer of 1970" and I'm wondering if it's the same as "Live at the Lighthouse" recorded live July 1970. Lineup is Benny Maupin, Harold Mabern, Jymie Merritt and Micky Roker. Songs are Willow Weep for Me, Peyote, Speedball, Ujamma, Ceora. I also have a Memorex tape 60 minute cassette (MRX2 Oxide), recorded from some long-forgotten source. On the label, I simply wrote "Lee Morgan, Sept. 17 & 18, 1971. Capri Black/Angela/Croquet Ballet/In What Direction Are you Headed?/Inner Passions Out." Stylistically, this is the most adventurous Morgan I've heard. If I recall correctly, there's tenor, flute, electric and acoustic piano, lots of acoustic bass solos, drums, some kalimba, briefly some double reed instrument like a musette and possibly trombone. It's a studio recording. "Inner Passions Out" could almost be a Sun Ra cut, with considerable free improvising (over free rhythm). The balance of the recording does not stretch quite so far but is more open-ended and extended than anything else I've encountered from Morgran, including "All That Jazz" -- this is conceptually distinct from that recording. Anybody know anything 'bout this recording? I find the album extremely charming. Anybody have a good copy that they could make me a better copy of? (plenty to offer in trade -- let me know your interests). But more information alone would be welcomed. Thanks. Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Lee Morgan in '70, '71 Date: 03 Jun 1999 13:48:48 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Martin Wisckol wrote: > Two inquiries re: Lee Morgan > > I have this LP on DJM (England) called "All that Jazz" recorded live " > in Los Angeles in the summer of 1970" and I'm wondering if it's the > same as "Live at the Lighthouse" recorded live July 1970. Lineup is > Benny Maupin, Harold Mabern, Jymie Merritt and Micky Roker. Songs are > Willow Weep for Me, Peyote, Speedball, Ujamma, Ceora. Martin: Judging from the date and the personnel this indeed appears to be the Live At The Lighthouse session. I only have the original 2-LP set, though, which contains "Absolutions", "The Beehive", "Neophilia" and "Nommo". Blue Note has recently reissued this as a two *CD* set, so mayeb those tunes are on the "newly-discovered" sessions. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn_Lea@avid.com Subject: Re: Jeanne Lee Date: 03 Jun 1999 13:58:46 -0400 She did a duet album with Ran Blake called "The Newest Sound Around". Not sure of its vintage, but from the cover, I'd say 50s. cdnow has it. I recall they did a "reunion" not long ago as well. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn_Lea@avid.com Subject: Re: Paul Haines, etc Date: 03 Jun 1999 14:00:41 -0400 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Paul Haines, etc. Continuing my EOTH-related queries, does anyone know of any publications of Haines' poetry (or prose, for that matter), web-based or hard copy, music-related or otherwise? You know about "Darn It", right? Two CD set of Haines poetry put to music by various artists, including Evan Parker, Derek Bailey, Paul Bley, etc, produced by Kip Hanrahan... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Re: Lee Morgan in '70, '71 Date: 03 Jun 1999 11:14:12 -0700 Hi Ken -- Thanks for the playlist at the Lighthouse. My set is actually 2LPs too, sound quality isn't great -- some muffling and fading.... I'll check out the CD Lighthouse playlist next time I go to the record store.... cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca writes: >From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> >On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Martin Wisckol wrote: >> Two inquiries re: Lee Morgan >> >> I have this LP on DJM (England) called "All that Jazz" recorded live " >> in Los Angeles in the summer of 1970" and I'm wondering if it's the >> same as "Live at the Lighthouse" recorded live July 1970. Lineup is >> Benny Maupin, Harold Mabern, Jymie Merritt and Micky Roker. Songs are >> Willow Weep for Me, Peyote, Speedball, Ujamma, Ceora. >Martin: >Judging from the date and the personnel this indeed appears to be the >Live At The Lighthouse session. I only have the original 2-LP set, >though, which contains "Absolutions", "The Beehive", "Neophilia" and >"Nommo". Blue Note has recently reissued this as a two *CD* set, so >mayeb >those tunes are on the "newly-discovered" sessions. >Ken Waxman >cj649@torfree.net >> >> >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Jeanne Lee Date: 03 Jun 1999 14:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Album was circa 1962, around the time she (and *Nancy Wilson!*) shared the New Star femal vocalist award in the downbeat critics poll. I think it's since been deleted, soem can be picked up cheap. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Thu, 3 Jun 1999 Glenn_Lea@avid.com wrote: > > She did a duet album with Ran Blake called "The Newest Sound Around". Not sure > of its vintage, but from the cover, I'd > say 50s. cdnow has it. I recall they did a "reunion" not long ago as well. > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: Liliput CD Date: 03 Jun 1999 18:55:04 -0400 Does anybody have a copy of the retrospective Liliput double-CD they would be willing to sell? Or if not at least tape? LT Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 World Cinema Review needs readers & writers http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4/wcr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Liliput CD Date: 03 Jun 1999 15:56:31 -0700 On Thu, 03 Jun 1999 18:55:04 -0400 Lang Thompson wrote: > > Does anybody have a copy of the retrospective Liliput double-CD they would ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What is it? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: gregorio cd Date: 04 Jun 1999 11:06:46 GMT0BST anybody have details of the new release on Hatology by Guillermo Gregorio "red cube(d)"? Does this label have an email? also, any info. yet on the forthcoming chapin cd "nightbird song"? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Lee Morgan Date: 04 Jun 1999 12:15:15 GMT0BST Martin, I think Live at The Lighthouse is actually a 3CD set on Blue Note now. But I seem to remember reading (Penguin Guide?) that there was similar material by a similar line-up from around that time on another label, incorrectly titled as Live atThe Lighthouse. The Sept. 1971 date is also available, mid-price CD in the UK, possibly under a title like "Last Session". I've seen it, but haven't heard it. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Heather and Jeff" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: Re: Re: Lee Morgan Date: 04 Jun 1999 07:56:49 -0400 > But I seem to remember reading (Penguin Guide?) that there >was similar material by a similar line-up from around that time on >another label, incorrectly titled as Live atThe Lighthouse. > Fresh Sound 140/2. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paisley Fripp <spoonloop@yahoo.com> Subject: Two albums Date: 04 Jun 1999 09:28:01 -0700 (PDT) For nearly two years now there have been two particular albums I have been looking for, all to no avail. The first, I have been told - at least after having described it - is a Max Roach album entitled "Chattahoochie Red". The other is by one Francois Brouet (sic?); I don't know the title of this one but it contains the song "The Woman Without a Story", an Arabic-influenced 'chanson' sung by a woman. I heard both on the radio, and, well, you know some of those graveyard shift 'eclectic music show' disc jockeys when asked, Where'd you purchase that?: "Uh, well, I don't know . . . it was just here when I found it." Any info as to where these Waldos might be lurking would be deeply appreciated. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: The $4.95 CD brou-ha-ha... Date: 04 Jun 1999 12:56:28 -0400 The world is full of traffic on this topic, so excuse the cross-post, but: I ordered on the 21st, it says 4-7 biz days, which would put me at 3 days late, so I called them yesterday. They had NO IDEA that the response would be so enormous, so they are quite overwhelmed, behind, and going like crazy trying to keep up. THERE IS NO CATCH. It was an offer to attract customers to a new site, in hopes that many of us will return. I've no idea what their prices will be like later. The CDs will be sent as ordered. They were very responsive and surprised. Also, just saw a note somewhere that orders are now limited to "5 CDs"... is this true? Anyway, if mine arrive, y'all will be some of the first to know. okay, RrrrrrL -- Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, William Parker, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman Discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ***Very Various Music For Sale: ***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: The $4.95 CD brou-ha-ha... Date: 04 Jun 1999 17:24:45 GMT Where is this site? You didn't mention the URL. >The world is full of traffic on this topic, so excuse the cross-post, but: > >I ordered on the 21st, it says 4-7 biz days, which would put me at 3 days >late, so I called them yesterday. > >They had NO IDEA that the response would be so enormous, so they are quite >overwhelmed, behind, and going like crazy trying to keep up. > >THERE IS NO CATCH. It was an offer to attract customers to a new site, in >hopes that many of us will return. I've no idea what their prices will be >like later. > >The CDs will be sent as ordered. > >They were very responsive and surprised. > >Also, just saw a note somewhere that orders are now limited to "5 CDs"... >is >this true? > >Anyway, if mine arrive, y'all will be some of the first to know. > >okay, >RrrrrrL >-- >Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, William Parker, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, >David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman Discographies--Samuel Beckett >Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD >BOIL--etc., >at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k > >***Very Various Music For Sale: >***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html > >- > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: The $4.95 CD brou-ha-ha... Date: 04 Jun 1999 13:48:38 -0400 Here ya go: http://www.myshopnow.com/kellym/ Scott Handley wrote: > > Where is this site? You didn't mention the URL. > > >The world is full of traffic on this topic... -- Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, William Parker, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman Discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ***Very Various Music For Sale: ***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Howard <howard@3di.com> Subject: FW: HCI and Boredoms June 12 New Haven Date: 04 Jun 1999 13:00:39 -0500 Unbelievably, the group I am in is opening for the Boredoms! Highlight of my life material. Come visit: http://www.wizard.net/~tarquam/hatcitycollective.htm for more info. See below for our "Press Release" on the matter. john > Subject: HCI and Boredoms June 12 New Haven > > > Saturday, June 12th , Boredoms/The Hat City Intuitve > (Collective)/Olive > Grain, at New Haven CT at The Tune Inn Cafe - 29 Center St. (Tel: > 203-772-4310). > > The legendary Japanese noise/freakout mega-group, Boredoms, invade the > Yankee shores of New Haven, in support of their latest US > album Super Are > (Birdman Recs). This is their first US visit in over four years. > > Assisting in the mayhem, CT's "ugly duckling" improv-sters, > The Hat City > Intuitive (Collective) will make one of their rare quartet appearances > despite original plans of not performing as a group through > the summer. The > Collective (Chris Ludwig, Manny Spaceships; Leak Higgins; and > Mr. Scrod > Puttanesca who recently replaced Thoroughly Attlaffed) have recently > finished a puddle of gigs in DC, NY and CT, and members are > about to begin > individual projects. These projects include: Higgin's "pit > band" gigs with > the Connecticut Conservatory for such productions of West > Side Story, The > Porcupine Races, and Jeepers Creepers: the 13th Apostle; Scrod's solo > performances between boxing and wrestling matches; Mr. > Ludwig's computer > music editing for feature length adult films; and Mr. > Spaceships much needed > instrument repair. Needless to say, the Collective has found > the Boredoms > June 12th gig to fit in their busy schedules and are planning > to represent > CT full on. > > Northampton, MA's Olive Grain, and its "operatic soundscape > disposition", > take on the opening roll of the evening. Another rare treat. > > One not to be missed. > > Doors open at 8pm. Admission: $10 / $12 under 21. Please > drink responsively. > > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: Liliput CD Date: 04 Jun 1999 12:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Lang Thompson, demi-God and Icon sez: > >Does anybody have a copy of the retrospective Liliput double-CD they would >be willing to sell? Or if not at least tape? Make that two. I had a chance to order that from Switzerland way back when...I believe it is somewhere near the bottom of my TODO pile. :) I'm also looking for a copy of that CD, so after Lang gets his, count me in! cheers, mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Schachter w/ Zorn Date: 06 Jun 1999 00:34:23 EDT Does anyone who attended the Tonic show tonight (6/5) have any thoughts on the sax player Ben Schachter? He is an amazing player from outside Philadelphia. Has a new CD out, Fractals, that I very highly recommend. In fact Jamaaladeen Tacuma plays on the album, along with Jef Lee Johnson! Just wondering on the responses of those who have never heard of him before. And of course, if anyone has a recording of this show, please talk to me! OH BOY!, Marcus - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: psa for June Neues Kabarett Date: 06 Jun 1999 18:57:27 -0500 THE BRECHT FORUM 122 West 27th Street, 10th Floor New York, NY 10001 212-242-4201 www.brechtforum.org ******************* Neues Kabarett, a new series of avant-garde jazz and adventurous music and dance, presents IT'S A VISION THING curated by Patricia Nicholson June 25 & 26 The Brecht Forum continues Neues Kabarett, its new concert series, on Friday, June 25 and Saturday, June 26 at 9 pm. IT'S A VISION THING is curated by Patricia Nicholson - dancer, choreographer and organizer of the annual Vision Festival. Nicholson will perform on Friday with Rob Brown on saxophone. Friday's concert also features violinist Mat Maneri who will be joined by dancer Christine Coppola. On Saturday, dancer Julia Wilkins will perform with Bernard Rosat on bass, and Charles Waters on reeds will be joined by the NuZion Dance Workshop. Admission is $10 per night. That's June 25 & 26 at 9 pm at The Brecht Forum, 122 West 27th Street, 10th Floor, between 6th and 7th Avenues near the 1/9, A/C, N/R, 6 and F trains. For info call 212-242-4201. ***************** Background: The Brecht Forum is a non-profit cultural and educational center for people working for fundamental change and a society that puts human needs first. Arts events include Neues Kabarett, an avant-garde jazz series; The Gashouse featuring radical music and words; Freedom Song highlighting music from worldwide national liberation struggles; and monthly art exhibits spotlighting issues of the day such as the powerful May-June Cellscape II which focuses on incarceration and police brutality. Upcoming events include dance performances, films and a three-day concert spotlighting the contributions of innovative women composers. The Brecht Forum has been raising funds to support the development of its performance space, including the purchase of a new sound system and a piano. A benefit concert in July will feature Stephanie Stone and Andrea Parkins on piano, a rare solo performance by trumpeter Roy Campbell, and guitarist Loren Mazzacane Connors with poet Steve Dalachinsky. In August, another benefit will feature guitarist Marc Ribot and drummer Christine Bard. Also that month we will also present North Carolina's Eugene Chadbourne, who will treat New Yorkers to a night of original compositions and a night of his interpretations of Phil Ochs songs, performing on the bill with NYC's Spin-17 and Kenta Nagai. The Brecht Forum's schedule also includes classes, such as a nine-session course "The Politics of Hip Hop: From Getting Paid to Getting Free" which begins on June 16. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: David Tudor in RealAudio Date: 06 Jun 1999 23:18:28 -0700 Just a quick note to point to the latest edition of my weekly internet radio show Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index.htm>, presenting four works by live electronic music master David Tudor, frequent collaborator with John Cage & Merce Cunningham, whose work may be of interest to some folks on this list. Bests, Herb Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Blind Idiot God Date: 07 Jun 1999 08:15:16 -0500 Coupla questions: 1) Is Blind Idiot God still extant? 2) Have the individual members been up to anything the last few years? Last I heard Hawkins was either 'Azonic Halo' or his half of 'Skinner's Black Labs', both of which I enjoyed. Katz and Epstein I've seen nothing on since the latter's brief inclusion in Slan, if I'm remembering correctly. Thanks, Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: wha's with primus? Date: 07 Jun 1999 11:20:44 -0500 I was into Primus for, oh, about three weeks two years ago. There was something I liked about them, but in the end I decided their cartooniness was too sterile for me. Since then, they've hired Brain as their new drummer, have Buckethead touring with them in the Ozzfest (is that a permanent addition, does anyone know?) and played on several tracks on Mule Variations. And now I see that Waits is recording with them for their next record! Am I missing something, or does the cool guys just hang out with them cause they've got good snacks or something? In other news, Arto Lindsay's next record later this year will be on Righteous Babe, the first record the label will have released that's not by Ani DiFranco. I wonder if Les Claypool's producing? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: new Dave Douglas' CD: "Songs For Wandering Souls" Date: 07 Jun 1999 17:54:55 +0200 Hi Philozorners, during my last weekends visit to Berlin I was suprised to find the new Dave Douglas CD "Songs For Wandering Souls". Actually it's Tiny Bell Trio, but the CD cover sais DD. After the first listening I can say it's excellent, like the previous albums, less eastern-european, but still exciting. Make sure to get it. Because it's Winter & Winter release some of you may not like the cartoon packaging (coloured pink this time). But I find it nice ;-) __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [NEW E-MAIL: arno AT emd.pl] www.emd.pl - Discography of Bill Frisell (soon) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: Frisell/Costello Date: 07 Jun 1999 14:18:14 -0300 Maybe this question is for Englishmen, but who knows. Anyway, I need to know where can I get information about the show Frisell/Costello did in England in 1995 and was recorded as Deep Dead Blue on Nonesuch. Please email me privately if you consider off-topic. Thanks in advance. Hugo. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: New Yorker interview with Zorn Date: 07 Jun 1999 19:07:38 -0700 With my usual apologies if this is redundant (I'm on digest), the June 14, 1999 issue of the New Yorker has a lengthy interview with John Z0rn which the interviewer describes as "his first extensive contact with the the press in eight years." It's on newstands right now out in Seattle, I don't know about elsewhere. Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: The $4.95 CD brou-ha-ha... Date: 07 Jun 1999 22:22:19 -0500 Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> wrote: > Here ya go: > > http://www.myshopnow.com/kellym/ One small correction: the real site is http://www.myshopnow.com/ from which you can create your own store (thus the postfix), which allows some kind of payback discount-type thing. kelly m is gonna get rich off of all the zorn-listers hitting this place. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Jeanne Lee Morgan Date: 07 Jun 1999 22:28:39 -0700 Jeanne Lee is listed (after Ran Blake) as co-leader on an exceedingly pleasant CD called "You Stepped OUt of a Cloud." Owl Records c. 1989, no idea of current availability (but always interested in tape swaps -- right now, I have particular hankerings for a good copy of Braxton's Arista Creative Orchestra Music and for his Dortmund Quartet 1976 -- I can also offer Braxton first two Aristas and several other good out-of-print Ran Blakes -- and I'm looking for various Masadas and as always looking for surprises). But back to Black/Lee. All piano/vocal duets. 14 cuts, four originals. A handful of standards recast significantly. Two Monk cuts, including Jeanne singing Gertrude STein's "Rose" to Mysterioso. Jobim's "Corcovado." The album is dedicated to "Constantin Brancusi (1876-1957) and all the fine old cannibals of mittel European formalism." Also of note is Andrew Cyrille/Jeanne Lee/Jimmy Lyons "Nuba" on Black Saint, altho this makes it on my player less than the above. Thanks to all for the response on my Lee Morgan inquiries. Picked up a brand-spankin new copy of "Last Session" on sale at Tower this weekend and chucked the Memorex tape straight into the trash. Martin np Bootsy Collins-- Straight out of P University - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: wha's with primus? Date: 08 Jun 1999 17:22:44 +1000 > I was into Primus for, oh, about three weeks two years ago. There was something > I liked about them, but in the end I decided their cartooniness was too sterile > for me. Since then, they've hired Brain as their new drummer, have Buckethead > touring with them in the Ozzfest (is that a permanent addition, does anyone > know?) and played on several tracks on Mule Variations. And now I see that Waits > is recording with them for their next record! Am I missing something, or does > the cool guys just hang out with them cause they've got good snacks or > something? Well they are three (or four if you also include Tim Alexander, ex-drummer) pretty amazing musicians. They don't seem out of place with Tom Waits (and I'll just point out if you didn't already know that they have worked together before, on Sailing The Seas Of Cheese and on Bone Machine). I see any cartooniness in Primus as a pretty damn dark one (listen to the Residents, major influence on Primus)... Just to be picky, I think they only play one track on Mule Variations... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Heather and Jeff" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: Re: wha's with primus? Date: 08 Jun 1999 07:20:42 -0400 >Well they are three (or four if you also include Tim Alexander, ex-drummer) >pretty amazing musicians. Don't forget about Sausage the pre-Primus Primus with Jay Lane and Todd Huth. As Les says, "Primus does suck this is true, but Sausage is merely mediocre." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Small Laswell Sale ... Date: 08 Jun 1999 09:08:50 -0400 Hello ... I have the following *as new* Laswell related items up for grabs, first come, first served ... Prices are in _US $_ and are POSTAGE PAID within NA. Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged. If you don't like the prices, please make me an OFFER. # Azonic - "Halo" US CD (Subharmonic/Strata 0002-2) 1994 $10 [Andy Hawkins & Gabe Katz of Blind Idiot God prod. by Laswell] # Chaos Face - "Doom Ride" US CD (Subharmonic SD 7004-2) 1995 $10 [Laswell w/ Musso, Mick Harris & Shin Terai (vocals) & Peter Wetherbee] # Material - "The Third Power" US CD (Axiom) 1991 $8 even more stuff at: http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/sale.html Thanks for looking. -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JKlein2373@aol.com Subject: more cheap CD site information Date: 08 Jun 1999 09:54:01 EDT Hello, For anyone that is interested, the site selling CDs for $4.95 - and yes, now orders are limited to five per order - is simply: www.myshopnow.com That's it. Any suffix to the URL is essentially a money-making scheme for whoever has their name tagged on (the site explains this process). But that's besides the point. Go to the site, click on the ad for the CDs, and search away: their Zorn product is pretty remarkable and, honestly, it was the way I knew the store was no scam. What fly by night operation would take the time to list every Zorn release, when Ricky Martin is all it takes to draw in the suckers? Anyway, from what they told me myshopnow.com is selling overstock, so some titles may be limited but all are legit. Josh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <vuilleumier@micro.biol.ethz.ch> Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 08 Jun 1999 16:15:14 +0200 I know about Zorn, but who's Ricky Martin? Does he also get "New Yorker" interviews? Stephane -----Original Message from Josh----- :What fly by night operation would take the time :to list every Zorn release, when Ricky Martin is all it takes to draw in the :suckers? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: OP Braxton Date: 08 Jun 1999 11:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Martin (and others): Here in Toronto, at least, deleted copies of Braxton's COM 1976 and the Montreux/Berlin concerts were floating around for $6.99 (Can.) each at least until about a month ago. If Arista dumped 'em here, I'm sure they did the same in the U.S. Check your local delete bins. (Or is this one of the very few benefits Canadians got outta the NAFTA?) Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Martin Wisckol wrote: > I have particular hankerings for a good copy of Braxton's > Arista Creative Orchestra Music and for his Dortmund Quartet 1976 -- I > can also offer Braxton first two Aristas and several other good > out-of-print Ran Blakes -- and I'm looking for various Masadas and as > always looking for surprises). > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 08 Jun 1999 11:42:49 EDT In a message dated 6/8/99 9:58:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JKlein2373@aol.com writes: > > Anyway, from what they told me myshopnow.com is selling overstock, so some > titles may be limited but all are legit. Overstock of the entire Tzadik catalog?? It just doesnt make any sense. (Although that didnt stop me from placing an order). What I was curious about was the "manufactured by K-Tel" tag on all the CD listings... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 08 Jun 1999 08:47:58 -0700 On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:15:14 +0200 "Stephane Vuilleumier" wrote: > > I know about Zorn, but who's Ricky Martin? > Does he also get "New Yorker" interviews? I was also puzzled by that name. I never heard it before going to the Victoriaville festival, and, on my way back to the States almost every magazine had "Ricky Martin" on their first page! He is a singer who currently has a big hit. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 08 Jun 1999 08:51:43 -0700 On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:15:14 +0200 "Stephane Vuilleumier" wrote: > > I know about Zorn, but who's Ricky Martin? > Does he also get "New Yorker" interviews? And you are not asking about Britney Spears? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Blind Idiot God Date: 08 Jun 1999 12:10:46 -0400 (EDT) > 1) Is Blind Idiot God still extant? > > 2) Have the individual members been up to anything the last few years? > Thanks, Brian Olewnick > I don't have much to add to this except that I've been wondering the same thing for awhile too. I haven't heard any other groups use interesting, complex chords this successfully, without getting bombastic, pretentious, sterile, etc., in a metal (and/or dub) type setting. I guess my other question would be - who else might be or has done anything in this ballpark? Thanks, WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 08 Jun 1999 12:30:50 EDT In a message dated 6/8/99 9:58:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JKlein2373@aol.com writes: << Hello, For anyone that is interested, the site selling CDs for $4.95 - and yes, now orders are limited to five per order - is simply: www.myshopnow.com >> Has anyone actually received an order from this place? Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: XRedbirdxx@aol.com Subject: new yorker interview Date: 08 Jun 1999 12:52:49 EDT is there a way to read it online? www.newyorker.com did not give access to such. -joseph - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 08 Jun 1999 10:08:38 -0700 (PDT) TagYrIt@aol.com, demi-God and Icon sez: > > For anyone that is interested, the site selling CDs for $4.95 - and yes, now > orders are limited to five per order - is simply: > > www.myshopnow.com > >Has anyone actually received an order from this place? I have...took about 8 days. All seemingly legit releases...though the low price doesn't bode well for the artists actually getting their cut. mike -- rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net> Subject: Re: new yorker interview Date: 08 Jun 1999 13:30:28 -0400 XRedbirdxx@aol.com wrote: > > is there a way to read it online? www.newyorker.com did not give access to > such. Don't know about on-line access, but I picked it up this morning on the newsstand. The article's kind of a primer on JZ, with a little past history, but focussing on what he's been up to the last few years, especially Masada and his "classicallly" oriented pieces. Not much, I dare say, that most on this list aren't already aware of (though the fact that he got rid of his kitchen so as to have more space for his record and book collection may serve as ammunition the next time my better half complains about the size of my own. "Hey, it could be worse!"). The issue's worth getting for the interesting article by Kubrick's screenwriter for 'Eyes Wide Shut' anyway. Brian Olewnick NP: Eskelin, Kulak, 29 & 30 > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marks, Andy" <Andy.Marks@mts.com> Subject: Haino Keiji opinions Date: 08 Jun 1999 12:42:41 -0500 I would like to hear some opinions on the following Haino Keiji releases Book of Eternity Set Aflame I Said, this is the Son of Nihilism Challenge to Fate Execration that Accept To Acknowledge I really like his vocals. I was wondered which of these releases showcased some of those beautifully tortured vocals of his. I also own Tenshi No Gijinka which I like alot to. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KruciFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #670 Date: 08 Jun 1999 13:47:19 EDT hello. i'm new on the list. i am all but completely lost on the musical subjects you continually discuss. however, i like john zorn, painkiller + naked city. i also like various other musicians in different fields such as Sonic Youth and 1000's of punk bands and miles davis bitches brew era. but, that still doesn't solve the problem of my endless confusion on 95% of the artists that are discussed. if anyone has any musical reccomendations that would be fitting to my tastes, please inform me. oh yeh, i despise yamatsuka (?) eye.....i do not see his musical value outside of the rather interesting band the boredoms. ok. thanks to all. ben o. ......krucifly@aol.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KruciFly@aol.com Subject: mail order Date: 08 Jun 1999 14:04:32 EDT does anyone know the best place online to by john zorn, +j z related stuff? i'd appreciate the info. ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott" <scott@burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: White Noise update Date: 08 Jun 1999 19:39:52 +0100 There's a whole bunch of new stuff up at White Noise. News, reviews the whole shebang. Check it out. Scott Russell White Noise For experimental events in Scotland http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbayweb.com> Subject: New Yorker Interview Date: 08 Jun 1999 11:37:54 -0700 What is on the cover/ I am a subscriber and I haven't received this issue yet as far as I can tell. I know that there is usually a little lag for subscribers, but just one issue back there was an article on Stanley Kubrick. It was more the eulogy of a career- I think it was written by Anthony Lane. That's not the Kubrick article to which you are referring is it? Christian - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: New Yorker Interview Date: 08 Jun 1999 14:56:50 EDT In a message dated 6/8/99 2:40:56 PM, xian@mbayweb.com writes: << What is on the cover/ I am a subscriber and I haven't received this issue yet as far as I can tell. I know that there is usually a little lag for subscribers, but just one issue back there was an article on Stanley Kubrick. It was more the eulogy of a career- I think it was written by Anthony Lane. That's not the Kubrick article to which you are referring is it? >> it's the new issue, June 14. there's a cartoon of a family on the front, and the Kubrick article is by Frederic Raphael, not Lane. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: touring French "jazz" bands Date: 08 Jun 1999 17:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Later this month the so-called Toronto Jazz Festival is featuring two bands purported to be from France. Since both are featured in "tent" shows in this conservative festival, I don't have much hope for anything out of the ordinary. But one has to hope, doesn't one. Anyhow, does anyone in France know anything about: Prysm, which seems to have an album out on Blue Note (yikes!)and is described as "A French collective which creates rich tapestries of texture and colour" And/or Antoine Lisolo's Barka from Marseilels (one of my favorite cities, BTW). They're described as "the multicultural richess of this city inspires their spontaneous melodies and rhythms." Anything there for the improv fan, or merely more pop/world music blather? Thanks in advance etc. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Subject: Re: Haino Keiji opinions Date: 08 Jun 1999 20:19:38 -0500 At 12:42 PM 6/8/99 -0500, Marks, Andy wrote: >I would like to hear some opinions on the following Haino Keiji releases >I was wondered which of these releases showcased >some of those beautifully tortured vocals of his. > >Book of Eternity Set Aflame >Execration that Accept To Acknowledge These two are to me fairly similar in feel, mostly guitar, mostly very loud. Some vocals, but more guitar oriented. >I Said, this is the Son of Nihilism Possibly my favorite of his releases. If you want some of his best vocal work, this is the one. Great guitar work as well, but the vocals are incredible. >Challenge to Fate This one will give you a great variety of his moods and styles. Some solo (rather harsh) vocal work, some acoustic stuff, some feedback stuff, a great all around assortment of his various kinds of works. A good place to start if you want an overview of his stuff (along with the most comprehensive discography you could find) go to: http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/haino/index.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sibree/Wilkes <numbats@iinet.net.au> Subject: LP auction - some Zorn content, mostly free jazz/avant garde Date: 09 Jun 1999 18:38:32 +0800 My latest auction list contains some Zorn material. Please email for details. Regards, Billy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com> Subject: Parachute Date: 09 Jun 1999 08:58:05 -0500 (CDT) Hello, Does anyone know if Zorn/Tzadik has any plans to reissue the Parachute catalog? And while I'm asking, exactly what records make up the Parachute catalog anyway? I was digging through the archives at the radio station where I work, and I found a copy of Chadbourne's _There'll Be No Tears Tonight_, a great record featuring Zorn and Tom Cora, among others, on several tracks. Someone should really reissue this stuff. Stranger things in the Zorn discography have been re-released. Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat, Paul psaudino@interaccess.com GROOVE ---------- One Nation - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Jonathan Mooneyham) Subject: Re: Parachute Date: 09 Jun 1999 09:11:02 -0500 >I was digging through the archives at the radio station where I work, and >I found a copy of Chadbourne's _There'll Be No Tears Tonight_, a great >record featuring Zorn and Tom Cora, among others, on several tracks. >Someone should really reissue this stuff. Stranger things in the Zorn >discography have been re-released. I have a cd reissue of _There'll Be No Tears Tonight_ on Fundamental Records, which has released many Chadbourne recordings. I picked up this copy in '94, so I'm not certain it's currently in print... Jon M. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers <dennisqdw@home.com> Subject: New Yorker article Date: 09 Jun 1999 07:39:58 -0700 I'm sure that everyone has rushed out to buy the New Yorker, as have I, but I would like to say that it's a pretty good article, and well worth picking up. Also any of you who are Kubrick fans, there's a good article by the screen writer of Eyes Wide Shut. yours in zornocity --ds ***Quantum Dance Works*** ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@ctech.smtc.net> Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 09 Jun 1999 11:25:53 -0400 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:15:14 +0200 "Stephane Vuilleumier" wrote: > > > > I know about Zorn, but who's Ricky Martin? > > Does he also get "New Yorker" interviews? > > I was also puzzled by that name. I never heard it before going to the > Victoriaville festival, and, on my way back to the States almost > every magazine had "Ricky Martin" on their first page! > > He is a singer who currently has a big hit. In addition, Ricky Martin is an ex-member of the pop/R&B group Menudo whose members are kicked out when they reach a certain age (18 or so) and are replaced by younger talent. This way, the project is a constant flux of dreamy teen sensations! It almost seems a parody of the commercial music industry, but Menudo is for real. listening to: Parker/Guy/Lytton - Imaginary Values (Maya) -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: New Yorker interview Date: 09 Jun 1999 09:05:39 -0700 I've got to agree with Brian on this. After reading the interview instead of just glancing through it at the newsstand, for the most part it's pretty basic (without providing the rules for Cobra). I also agree that the article by Eyes Wide Shut screenwriter Frederic Raphael is very interesting (probably moreso than the Zorn interview). & I'd forgotten that for subscribers to the New Yorker, time sort of disappears, so I didn't describe the cover. In case your a VERY long time subscriber & the previous description didn't help, it's the recent William Steig drawing. Bests, Herb Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KruciFly@aol.com Subject: Soup Date: 09 Jun 1999 12:08:18 EDT has anyone here heard any artists on the Soup label? i heard a lot of hype about the relatively new label's existence, but i was rather dissappointed by most of what i heard. (i bought a soup disc sampler) however, there are some fairly innovative musicians ..using more bizzare textures and sonically rich sounds in electronic music (which is , i might add, the foundation of the label). i guess electronic music now seems to bore me more often than not. but, i still think there are interesting things being done, and i won't give up looking. ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 09 Jun 1999 12:19:34 EDT In a message dated 6/8/99 1:10:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rizzi@netcom.com writes: > I have...took about 8 days. All seemingly > legit releases...though the low price > doesn't bode well for the artists actually > getting their cut. Are you sure? I thought artists get their royalties based on the number of CDs sold (shipped), regardless of how much a retailer sells them for. -Jody - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 09 Jun 1999 09:38:06 -0700 On Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:19:34 EDT IOUaLive1@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/8/99 1:10:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rizzi@netcom.com > writes: > > > I have...took about 8 days. All seemingly > > legit releases...though the low price > > doesn't bode well for the artists actually > > getting their cut. > > Are you sure? I thought artists get their royalties based on the number of > CDs sold (shipped), regardless of how much a retailer sells them for. Hum... interesting logic. And where does the money come from? Are you assuming that the label sells them to the distributors below price? At $5 the record, you can be sure that almost no money is made once manufacturing costs and other are paid... I am, of course, talking about small labels which press 1000 copies. The big guys could afford to go down, although their running costs are high (and their stockholders might wonder about such altruistic trend :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KruciFly@aol.com Subject: Soup: Again Date: 09 Jun 1999 12:46:17 EDT oops...i left out in my last Soup ramblings, it's a japanese based label and artists. ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Knutboy@aol.com Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 09 Jun 1999 12:44:25 EDT This joint is a loss leader sales site. The object is to run sales up in order to turn the company over. This has nothing do with artist royalties as this company buys from one-stops and the major distribution companies. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com> Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 09 Jun 1999 12:12:24 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > Are you sure? I thought artists get their royalties based on the number of > > CDs sold (shipped), regardless of how much a retailer sells them for. Artists are paid for CDs sold, not CDs shipped. There is a world of difference between the two terms. Sold refers to a purchase by the end user, not the retailer. Artists are not paid for promo copies or cut-outs. > Hum... interesting logic. And where does the money come from? Are you assuming > that the label sells them to the distributors below price? CDs are usually sold to retailers for around $11-13, maybe a little more as CD prices here in America continue to skyrocket. I'm guesing that the "$4.95, limit 5" site is selling the discs as a massive loss leading promotion. In other words, they are losing money on eacha nd every disc that they sell in the hope that you'll develop some sort of loyalty to the site and return to purchase full-price items in the future. I would imagine that the artists are still getting paid, in fact I'm almost certain of it. Labels (and publishers, etc.) tend to really frown upon loss leaders. They believe that the promotions and price wars hurt retailers in the long run by a) forcing smaller companies out of business and b) devaluing the products being sold. After all, if you can buy a book for 50% off retail or a CD for $5, why would you want to pay full price for it? And then, once the promotion ends, you'll simply go looking for the best deal elsewhere. Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat, Paul psaudino@interaccess.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: suggestions (Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #670) Date: 09 Jun 1999 17:28:28 GMT I've found the Zornlist to be a really friendly place, with great "advice", almost like a suggestive map of strange new territory, even if that "strange" territory is some subverted familiar, like, say, Caetano Veloso. I haven't seen anything more than a joke about off-topic-ness in months, I think. This is a good thing. We trace eraseable boundaries that actually serve as nothing more than a description of what's possible. Now----ahhh! Now that I'm done patting my own back I can type faster. I don't know if it would be a lost cause to make "suggested records" a FAQ, w/ taste subjective and all, but it seems we get a fair number of newbies (not a good word, by the way, for a list where punks can get into Mauricio Kagel and Dumitrescu and jazzbos or avant-guardians can learn about Napalm Death or Meshuggah) whose primary exposure is Naked City, Sonic Youth, punk, etc. While these folks bring an amazing quality to the list, they might be well-served by a semi-standard FAQ listing some must-have records by some of the "luminaries", or labels at least. For instance, I would direct a bebop/freebop fan to Masada. And I would direct all kinds of people to the LJCO, or Evan Parker, or maybe Joe McPhee, who is bad-ass. It would serve as a less "bewildering" introduction, and perhaps brief descriptions from list members could be ore helpful than promo gush. Anyway, I'd be interested to know what ya'll think. Now, to KruciFly's question: 1.) Have you checked out Masada? Bad-ass! 2.) Amazing Canadian composer/saxist Jean Derome can be seen as the Quebecois answer to Zorn, but he isn't nearly as recognized. I mean the _Penguin Guide_ snubs him! Crazy! I like his band Dangereux Zhoms, which might be akin to Naked City, in some superficial and essential ways (the pomo layers and jumpcuts, but slower). They have a 3-CD box which is fine, though all are available separately. Derome also has an album of "ballet" music, rather quiet, called LA BETE, which I adore. He is brilliant. A whole circle of brilliant improvisor-composers surrounds him, based in Montreal (??). A frequent collaborator is the brilliant, sick guitarist Rene Lussier, who has a great duo record w/ turntable sicko Martin Tetreault. All these records are on the nifty Ambiances Magnetiques label (www.cam.org/~dame_cd). 3.) If you like Sonic Youth, perhaps you would enjoy Thurston Moore's free improv records w/ and w/out William Hooker? Or his brand new trio record w/ amazing saxophonist Evan Parker, who turns the tenor and soprano saxophones into columns of fluid sentient vines? One of my favorite Evan Parker records, and a great way in, would be 50th BIRTHDAY CONCERT, a 2CD free-improv "masterpiece". Or the trio record BREATHS AND HEARTBEATS, which is absolutely fantastic, IMHO. 4.) Gyorgy Ligeti, Kryzstof Penderecki, Iancu Dumitrescu, and Bela Bartok have all written "concert" music for large and small ensembles that really cooks. The two EMI "Matrix"-series releases for Penderecki are huge insane oceans of sound and timbre, ranging from the inauduble to the deafening. A lot of it scares me. A bargain trip to hell. 5.) Peter Brotzmann also seems to know something about hell. A tenor-playing harbinger of doom and R&B, known for his all-out 1968 assault, MACHINE GUN. I like his Die Like a Dog Quartet, which really slips into a strange kind of "groove". Definitely free improv. I was so blown away by his duo w/ drummer Andrew Cyrille in Atlanta, I was screaming. (Charles Mingus' reaction to seeing the Ellington band for the first time, BTW...) 6.) I love Tim Berne, saxist/composer. His FULTON STREET MAUL is a great record, but my fave are the first three Bloocount records on JMT, which are pretty much out of print (though you should check out his Screwgun label' s website for cool stuff). Huge, long compositions with noise, space, silence and groove. Those are just some things I like. -----s >From: KruciFly@aol.com >hello. i'm new on the list. >i am all but completely lost on the musical subjects you continually >discuss. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: New Yorker interview Date: 09 Jun 1999 17:19:41 -0400 (EDT) Let's not get carried away. I made a point of reading the entire article today at my favorite no-charge library (standing up at a magazine store) and found it pretty much what you'd expect from a slick. What bothered me was a couple of things. Knowing very little about jazz (even though the names Ornette Coleman and James "Blood" Ulmer are dropped without explanation), the writer seems to buy into the myth that jazz was moribund in the mid-1970s, buried under the onslaught of rock music. He then cites the sort of "downtown" types who Zorn was playing along side in lofts as David Murray, Arthur Blythe, Sam Rivers and Julius Hemphill. I'm sure any one of them who had careers going back year --20 or so in Rivers' case -- would be surprised to be appended to a loft movement with Zorn as its most prominent practitioner. More insidious was the idea that Zorn has somehow "made it" because he's able to write melodic classical music that's far removed from his raucous "rock" and "jazz" playing. If you notice nearly everyone, if not everyone quoted in the article comes from the classical aide of the fence. As if them praising Zorn gives him the stamp of approval. It's this reason that Hollywood movies about swing musicians used to end with them in ties and tails conducting large classical orchestras. And it's why all the "new" outlets, i.e. The New York Times, The New Yorker, New York etc. only give their imprimatur to musicians such as Zorn (remember it was the NYT's John Rockwell who first praised him) and Wynton Marsalis. They can play so-called classical music, their scores are performed by classical musicians and ensembles, therefore they are high art. And high art is good. This isn't an attack on Zorn, BTW, even though I think he does too much, too often, but an examination of musical establishment power politics. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net P.S. It would be nice if instead of an occasional sop in terms of an article, the New Yorker hired a jazz/new music critic who wrote well and knew as much about present day "out" sounds as Whitney Balliet knew about jazz pre-1960. P.P.S. Now that he's been praised by JZ, will the more rabid Zornies be rushing out to pick up some CDs by alto saxophonist Bud Shank? Or should we look for Shank to be invited to bring a group into Tonic? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sfwd" <brap@sonic.net> Subject: Re: Soup: Again Date: 09 Jun 1999 17:51:22 -0700 : oops...i left out in my last Soup ramblings, it's a japanese based label and : artists. not all artists involved are soup... dj vadim (aka andre gurov on the jazz fudge label) is involved. personally i found both the soup sampler and broken piano repaired to be a bit of a letdown... although, i'm more into vadim and his work with ninja tune and such. the material was a bit too laid back for my tastes (especially as my favorite records recently seem to be by ground zero :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Parachute Date: 09 Jun 1999 22:28:58 -0400 (EDT) >>I was digging through the archives at the radio station where I work, >>and >>I found a copy of Chadbourne's _There'll Be No Tears Tonight_, a great >>record featuring Zorn and Tom Cora, among others, on several tracks. >>Someone should really reissue this stuff. Stranger things in the Zorn >>discography have been re-released. >I have a cd reissue of _There'll Be No Tears Tonight_ on Fundamental >Records, which has released many Chadbourne recordings. I picked up this >copy in '94, so I'm not certain it's currently in print... It's not. The next chance of this may be if he (Chadbourne) releases it through his association with Ponk on a CD-R. Actually, I really have no idea about this being true but he has mentioned re-releasing some of the Camper Van Chadbourne CDs this way. TBNTT, if you ask me, is much better than those albums, so hopefully he or someone else will put it back out. That and _LSD C & W_ WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: ESP again? Date: 09 Jun 1999 23:12:26 -0400 Does anybody know what happened to the rumored US reissue of ESP title through Smithsonian? Has that fallen through or been delayed or just a fever dream? LT Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 Singapore Film Fest at World Cinema Review http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4/wcr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Soup: Again Date: 10 Jun 1999 00:15:43 EDT In a message dated 6/9/99 8:58:19 PM, brap@sonic.net writes: << not all artists involved are soup... dj vadim (aka andre gurov on the jazz fudge label) is involved. personally i found both the soup sampler and broken piano repaired to be a bit of a letdown... although, i'm more into vadim and his work with ninja tune and such. the material was a bit too laid back for my tastes >> agreed to all of the above. I've never heard anything especially satisfying from Soup-Disk, although since I believe the 70 minute CD sampler is priced at about 2 bucks, you could cheaply check for yourself. on the other hand, the Andre Gurov-Revelations Of Wrath full length on the aforementioned Jazz Fudge is a really well-crafted record, superior to any of Vadim's work on Ninja Tune. something worth checking out in a similar vein is the Viennese duo Kruder and Dorfmeister, especially their DJ Kicks mix CD. go Knicks!!!!! Jon NP: Jeff Van Gundy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: suggestions (Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #670) Date: 10 Jun 1999 00:43:37 -0400 Scott Handley wrote: > > I don't know if it would be a lost cause to make "suggested records" a FAQ, > w/ taste subjective and all, but it seems we get a fair number of newbies > (not a good word, by the way, for a list where punks can get into Mauricio > Kagel and Dumitrescu and jazzbos or avant-guardians can learn about Napalm > Death or Meshuggah) whose primary exposure is Naked City, Sonic Youth, punk, > etc. While these folks bring an amazing quality to the list, they might be > well-served by a semi-standard FAQ listing some must-have records by some of > the "luminaries", or labels at least. For instance, I would direct a > bebop/freebop fan to Masada. And I would direct all kinds of people to the > LJCO, or Evan Parker, or maybe Joe McPhee, who is bad-ass. It would serve > as a less "bewildering" introduction, and perhaps brief descriptions from > list members could be ore helpful than promo gush. > > Anyway, I'd be interested to know what ya'll think. I think that this is a good idea, although I also love posts like this one, if not for new information, then for the insight I get into the tastes of those on the list. > Now, to KruciFly's question: > > 1.) Have you checked out Masada? Bad-ass! If you like Masada, you will probably also get off on "Bar Kokhba" and "The Circle Maker," with the Masada String Trio and the Masada Chamber Ensemble. Compositions by Zorn and musical contributions from Marc Ribot, Greg Cohen, Mark Feldman, Erik Friedlander, Anthony Coleman, Dave Douglas, Kenny Wollesen and others. Beautiful folk melodies in chamber settings. > 2.) Amazing Canadian composer/saxist Jean Derome can be seen as the > Quebecois answer to Zorn, but he isn't nearly as recognized. I mean > the _Penguin Guide_ snubs him! Crazy! I like his band Dangereux > Zhoms, which might be akin to Naked City, in some superficial and > essential ways (the pomo layers and jumpcuts, but slower). They have > a 3-CD box which is fine, though all are available separately. > Derome also has an album of "ballet" music, rather quiet, called LA > BETE, which I adore. He is brilliant. A whole circle of brilliant > improvisor-composers surrounds him, based in Montreal (??). Yes. 5.) Peter Brotzmann also seems to know something about hell. A > tenor-playing harbinger of doom and R&B, known for his all-out 1968 assault, > MACHINE GUN. I like his Die Like a Dog Quartet, which really slips into a > strange kind of "groove". Definitely free improv. I was so blown away by > his duo w/ drummer Andrew Cyrille in Atlanta, I was screaming. (Charles > Mingus' reaction to seeing the Ellington band for the first time, BTW...) And I'm still shaking from the Brotzmann Tentet performance at Victoriaville. The album (on Okka Disk) is a must have if you like energetic arranged free improv. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: re: ESP Date: 09 Jun 1999 22:20:46 -0700 LT wrote: > Does anybody know what happened to the rumored US reissue of ESP title through Smithsonian? Has that fallen through or been delayed or just a fever dream? < You mean ESP titles? As in the '60s avant label? If so, Cadence records was selling out its stock at $8 each, still had most of them on hand last time I checked. www.cadencebldg.com Martin np Charles Lloyd -- Voice in the Night (a darn sweet and solid outing with Abercrombie, Holland and Billy Higgins) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Non-Zorn: Re: Soup: Again Date: 10 Jun 1999 03:07:50 -0400 In a message dated 6/9/99 8:58:19 PM, brap@sonic.net writes: << not all artists involved are soup... dj vadim (aka andre gurov on the jazz fudge label) is involved. personally i found both the soup sampler and broken piano repaired to be a bit of a letdown... although, i'm more into vadim and his work with ninja tune and such. the material was a bit too laid back for my tastes >> In a message dated Thu, 10 Jun 1999, JonAbbey2@aol.com responded: >agreed to all of the above. I've never heard anything especially >satisfying from Soup-Disk, although since I believe the 70 minute >CD sampler is priced at about 2 bucks, you could cheaply check for >yourself. on the other hand, the Andre Gurov-Revelations Of Wrath >full length on the aforementioned Jazz Fudge is a really well-crafted >record, superior to any of Vadim's work on Ninja Tune. something worth >checking out in a similar vein is the Viennese duo Kruder and Dorfmeister, >>especially their DJ Kicks mix CD. Just thought I'd throw in a different opinion here. :) I personally like a lot of the Soup, Shi-Ra-Nui, 360 etc. catalog. True enough, if you want laid back, some of the artists are as seriously downtempo as you can get (which I couldn't seem to get enough of last year), but others (esp. Jigen, DJ Hati Monji, Weedbeats) can get quite "out" and abstract with their melange of sounds. For more of the Vadim/Krush type of vibe I would recommend Cappablack (their recent 12" feat. folks from Mandelbrot Set who have worked w/ Vadim), the first Montage, Ishimitu Prod. w. Masaaki Kikuchi on double bass, the 1st Stone Free, and the 1st (not the remixes) Ruf Neck Piano. Oh yeah, also totally agreed on "Revelations ...". Superb! The 2nd Gurov and Part 2 records are also standouts on the label, IMO. Much of the material released on JF and K'Boro is top notch UK hip hop. After the Isolationist & Vadim's 12" with Dilated Peoples, I can't wait for his next full length. I believe he's got a track with Co Flow on there .... Apologies for so much non-Zorn. -Patrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 10 Jun 1999 04:27:23 EDT > Hum... interesting logic. And where does the money come from? Are you > assuming > that the label sells them to the distributors below price? I would definitely not assume that! > At $5 the record, you can be sure that almost no money is made once > manufacturing costs and other are paid... I am, of course, talking about > small > labels which press 1000 copies. The big guys could afford to go down, > although their running costs are high (and their stockholders might wonder > about such altruistic trend :-). You are right, at $5 a CD, no money is made.. for the person selling the new CD. But I gah-RONE-tee the label is getting paid! Thanks for the heads-up on the "loss leader" promotion. I had no clue about such a thing, but now this "Myshop" promotion makes sense. The retailer buys the CDs from the one stops just like CD Now, probably paying the same price, and then bites the bullet and takes a huge loss in hopes that we'll come back and buy more later at full price. What marketing wiz (not) came up with this idea?!? I'm sure theyve sold tens of thousands of CDs, taking a loss on every single one. Will I go back? As many CDs as I buy, I will always be looking for cheap prices. -Jody - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com> Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Date: 10 Jun 1999 08:30:26 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 IOUaLive1@aol.com wrote: > What marketing wiz (not) came up with this idea?!? I'm sure theyve sold tens > of thousands of CDs, taking a loss on every single one. Will I go back? As > many CDs as I buy, I will always be looking for cheap prices. Loss leaders actually do work in some cases. The only example that comes to mind off the top of my head is a supermarket. They will underprice a certain desired item (frozen pizzas, soda, cookies, etc.) because once you make the effort to go to the store to get a deal, chances are actully pretty good that you'll do additional shopping there. Paul psaudino@interaccess.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net> Subject: Blind Idiot God Date: 06 Jun 1999 15:21:15 -0400 Coupla questions: 1) Is the group still extant? There was some discussion here over a year ago about an imminent album which was unsubstantiated. Anything since then? 2) What of the individual members' activity? Last thing I heard from Hawkins was either 'Azonic Halo' or 'Skinner's Black Labs', both pretty good releases. Katz and Epstein I don't think I've heard of since 'Cyclotron'. Thanks, Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee, Edgar" <Edgar.Lee@dva.gov.au> Subject: Date: 11 Feb 1999 17:01:09 +1100 [an old message I just found in the 'not processed' zorn-list queue - rizzi] I saw Masada at the Knitting factory in about June 1994. I think I remember that there was a clarinet player with a crewcut. Kenny Wollensen drummed that night, and John Zorn was very appreciative of his playing. Who was the clarinettist? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Question regarding $4.95 CD site Date: 10 Jun 1999 10:40:40 EDT I know I can often be dense with this type of thing, but I've found navigating this site to be a pain in the ass. Can anyone tell me if they know of a way to be able to add discs to the shopping cart, and then return to the original list you're working from? For example, if I've called up all of their Zorn holdings, by the time I click on a selection and then add that to the cart, I've had to re-enter "Zorn" into their search engine and wait for them all to be loaded again. Also, is there a way to scan down all of their jazz holdings, instead of searching by specific artists? I receive this list by digest and would like to order some stuff tonight, so if you have any helpful hints, could you please copy your response to me by direct e-mail (the next digest won't get here before I leave tonight). Thanks, Dave Royko, droyko@aol.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: ESP again? Date: 10 Jun 1999 11:01:00 -0400 (EDT) From what I understand just a fever dream. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Lang Thompson wrote: > Does anybody know what happened to the rumored US reissue of ESP title > through Smithsonian? Has that fallen through or been delayed or just a > fever dream? > > LT > ---------------------------------------------- > Lang Thompson > http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 > > Singapore Film Fest at World Cinema Review > http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4/wcr.htm > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KruciFly@aol.com Subject: Cold Soup Date: 10 Jun 1999 11:16:43 EDT In a message dated 6/10/99 12:45:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << personally i found both the soup sampler and broken piano repaired to be a bit of a letdown... >> i agree with this completely....it makes NO sense to me given the setting and equipment (and so called talent and vision) that electronic music is created through and such, that the vast majority of artists are merely mediocre. it's a new frontier, and it is already failing at a thorough and musically inventive discovery. well thats my bitter cynicism for the minute. ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: TIN PAN ALLEY by The Sidewalks Of New York Date: 10 Jun 1999 08:28:36 -0700 Has anybody (in Europe) seen the following record: *** - TIN PAN ALLEY: The Sidewalks Of New York Uri Caine; Don Byron; Dave Douglas; Mark Feldman. 1999 - Winter & Winter (Germany), 910 038-2 (CD) Thanks, Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: s~Z <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Cold Soup Date: 10 Jun 1999 08:27:18 -0700 Waiter....waiter.....there's a KruciFly in my Soup. Are any of you familiar with any of the bands on the label 'Ointment?' (sorry....back to lurking) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Cold Soup Date: 10 Jun 1999 13:15:55 EDT In a message dated 6/10/99 11:24:26 AM, KruciFly@aol.com writes: << i agree with this completely....it makes NO sense to me given the setting and equipment (and so called talent and vision) that electronic music is created through and such, that the vast majority of artists are merely mediocre. it's a new frontier, and it is already failing at a thorough and musically inventive discovery. >> the vast majority of music in any genre is arguably mediocre. there's tons of interesting to great electronic music being made, just not on Soup-Disk. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: music zorn likes Date: 11 Jun 1999 15:45:32 GMT 1. I read the NEW YORKER article and wondered if Zorn had ever read anything Kaplan had written before, and why he'd agreed to do an interview with _him_. BTW, I found it to be a great intro article, but still...after that long a silence, you'd think... 2. This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning 32,000 records? Is he that popular? I mean, isn't it expensive just to _exist_ in NYC? 3. Finally, I have a friend who might be freak-out interested in that Islamic music box set mentioned in the article. Has anyone seen or heard or heard about it? And I've never listened to Bud Shank: what is he like? Is he West Coast Cool? thanks in advance, ----s, who buys everything Zorn likes, believes everything he reads, and worries about his thighs _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: s~Z <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: NP Tom Waits In Oakland Review Date: 11 Jun 1999 08:36:51 -0700 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/06/11/DD32697.DTL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nvinokur@aol.com Subject: Re: NP Tom Waits In Oakland Review Date: 11 Jun 1999 12:04:24 EDT Waits will be on VH1 this Sunday Night at 10:00 PM, at least in New York. Also, a review of Messada in todays NY Times on line. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 11 Jun 1999 12:08:52 -0400 (EDT) Re: Bud Shank Shank is no Paul Desmond or Art Pepper, but a journeyman West Cost alto saxophonist and flautist who has had a varied 40 plus years career. He first came to prominence with the Lighthouse All Stars and was one of those musicians in the mid-1950s who epitomized that "cool" sound. He played on a clutch of sessions with the likes of Bob Cooper, Shorty Rogets et.al. Also he made some sessions in 1953-54 with guitarist Laurindo Almeida, which supposedly prefigured the Bossa Nova. Later in the decade he tried to a "heavier" sound. He made a disc for World Pacific with Carmel Jones, for instance. Later when the bottom fell out of the mainstream jazz market, he turned out pure commercial drek -- his hit "Michelle", an album of Lovin' Spoonful covers etc. His return to jazz was with the L.A.4 - with Almeida, Ray Brown (b) and Shelly Manne -later Jeff Hamilton (d) --all top studio musicians. That was the one time I saw him. I really wanted to see Manne, who was ill and soon afterwards died, so had to put up with Hamilton. Overall, my impression was that The band played pretty, MOR music with a tinge of jazz beat -- I honestly don't remember much of it. Recently Shank has abandoned his flute (which made him famous) and other instruments to concentrate on his alto and reports are that he's now an exceptional bebop altoist (another one[!]). As for discs, I've never owned one. But it seems safe to say that something early in his career --i.e. early 1950s and from much later on --i.e. the early 1990s on would be best. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Slntwtchr@aol.com Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 11 Jun 1999 12:16:34 EDT >2. This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he >stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning >32,000 records? Is he that popular? I mean, isn't it expensive just to >_exist_ in NYC? not to mention all the cds the article said he owns as well. one can only assume he makes a decent living, if he can afford all that, and afford to apparently buy the apartment he lives in and the one above it. judging by the fact that he was allowed to saw a hole in the ceiling of his apartment to access the one above it, i assume he would actually own them. that can't be cheap anywhere in the city, even in a walk-up in the village. >3. Finally, I have a friend who might be freak-out interested in that >Islamic music box set mentioned in the article. Has anyone seen or heard or >heard about it? i assume this is the set that celestial harmonies put out. 15 cds of music from various regions of the islamic world (actually i think 17 discs, as two of them are 2cd sets) great stuff, although i've been buying them individually and don't have all of them yet. they are available in a boxed set, though, too, assuming that's what zorn was actually talking about. not cheap, either way you buy them. peace, dave ___________________________________________________________ bill laswell, eraldo bernocchi, mick harris and lori carson discographies at : http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093/index.html REVIEWS WANTED ___________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles Jacobus <cjacobus@avesta.com> Subject: re: Masada/Boredoms articles Date: 11 Jun 1999 12:45:09 -0400 FYI: There are two pretty good articles in today's New York Times about the Masada and Boredoms shows this week. This might get you there: http://www.nytoday.com/scripts/staticpage.dll?only=y&spage=AE/genListing/gen Listing.htm&categoryid=30&glwhat=247&glwhere=Manhattan&glwhen=today&ck=29372 107&version=644030&adrVer=920771229&mwhere=Manhattan&rwhere=Manhattan&rwhat= 233&ver=cg2.1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: s~Z <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 11 Jun 1999 09:48:33 -0700 Slntwtchr@aol.com wrote: > > This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he > >stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning > >32,000 records? Is he that popular? He's big in Japan. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: Masada/Boredoms articles Date: 11 Jun 1999 16:37:10 -0400 There's also an interview with Y. Eye in today's Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/music/features/boredoms0610.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@ctech.smtc.net> Subject: folk, etc. Date: 11 Jun 1999 13:10:18 -0400 I was browsing the PSF titles at Forced Exposure and came across a disc called 'Land Of Prayer' by a Japanese "outsider folk" musician named Inaba Shuji. In the description, Alan Cummings likens Inaba to Mikami Kan, whom I've really been getting into, so I was wondering if this is a disc to check out. I'd also love to hear what recordings people have to recommend by lesser-known folk musicians from anywhere around the world. Folk music has been absolutely fascinating me recently, but I haven't payed much attention to it until now. What records should I be checking out? And while I'm at it, could someone tell me which of the new Columbia UK Ray Russell reissues they think is best? I'm interested in picking one up. listening to: Joseph Spence - Happy All The Time (Hannibal) -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com> Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 11 Jun 1999 13:10:23 -0800 Ha! Does anyone have any good urls for upcomming Tom Waits news? I use http://www.officialtomwaits.com/frame/news.htm but it doesnt seem to be the source. >Slntwtchr@aol.com wrote: >> >> This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he >> >stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning >> >32,000 records? Is he that popular? > >He's big in Japan. > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Holmes <blholmes@best.com> Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 11 Jun 1999 10:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Not sure if you are serious or quoting Tom Waits, but after two nights of awesome shows at the paramount theater in Oakland I can say even the mildest Waits fan must go. It was awesome. Still shows planned for LA, New York and some places in Europe. Sorry to be off topic. My joy will overcome any complaints. Cheers, Brian On Fri, 11 Jun 1999, s~Z wrote: > Slntwtchr@aol.com wrote: > > > > This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he > > >stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning > > >32,000 records? Is he that popular? > > He's big in Japan. > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Saidel <saidel@usl.edu> Subject: Re: New Yorker interview Date: 11 Jun 1999 11:26:17 -0500 Ken Waxman wrote: > > Let's not get carried away. I made a point of reading the entire article > today at my favorite no-charge library (standing up at a magazine store) > and found it pretty much what you'd expect from a slick. Well, I don't know, Ken. I finally got my copy today (I'm a subscriber and I'm geographically challenged). I wasn't blown away by the article, but I think it's better than you suggest. > > What bothered me was a couple of things. Knowing very little about jazz Um, no. According to the list of contributors at the front of the mag, Kaplan is the jazz columnist for "The Absolute Sound." I don't know that mag, but I'm sure that Kaplan must know a fair amount about jazz to get such a gig. (He's also the NY reporter for the Boston Globe.) > (even though the names Ornette Coleman and James "Blood" Ulmer are > dropped without explanation), As well as every other name that's mentioned. It's also worthy of note that Ulmer's name is "dropped" by Ribot, not by the author. > the writer seems to buy into the myth that > jazz was moribund in the mid-1970s, buried under the onslaught of rock > music. Yeah. I wasn't impressed by this either, but I don't think it's such a transgression. > He then cites the sort of "downtown" types who Zorn was playing > along side in lofts as David Murray, Arthur Blythe, Sam Rivers and Julius > Hemphill. I'm sure any one of them who had careers going back year --20 > or so in Rivers' case -- would be surprised to be appended to a loft > movement with Zorn as its most prominent practitioner. Well, Blythe and Murray were exactly what he suggests - young turks who were transforming jazz (and jumpstarting their careers) by taking part in the loft scene. Nowhere in the paragraph you're talking about does he say or even suggest that Zorn was a prominent practitioner in that scene. In fact, he doesn't even say that Zorn was part of the scene. All he says is that by the time Zorn returned to NYC (from college in St. Louis) this is what the Jazz scene was like in NYC. He then goes on - in the next paragraph - to say that Zorn "fell in with an esoteric subset of [rock's version of the jazz loft scene]." > > More insidious was the idea that Zorn has somehow "made it" because he's > able to write melodic classical music that's far removed from his raucous > "rock" and "jazz" playing. If you notice nearly everyone, if not everyone > quoted in the article comes from the classical aide of the fence. As if them > praising Zorn gives him the stamp of approval. I didn't get that feeling. He said several times that Zorn was rejected by the Jazz establishment. Perhaps that's why he didn't use quotes from members of the classical "side of the fence." Of course, a central theme of the article was that Zorn thinks there is no such fence. > > It's this reason that Hollywood movies about swing musicians used to end > with them in ties and tails conducting large classical orchestras. And > it's why all the "new" outlets, i.e. The New York Times, The New Yorker, New > York etc. only give their imprimatur to musicians such as Zorn (remember it > was the > NYT's John Rockwell who first praised him) and Wynton Marsalis. They can > play so-called classical music, their scores are performed by classical > musicians and ensembles, therefore they are high art. And high art is good. Gosh, you don't read the New Yorker much do you? Or the New York Times. The Times has Ben Ratliff who has done an awful lot to promote avant jazz. The New Yorker has Whitney Balliett who, although his tastes are a bit conservative for me, has not limited himself to people like Marsalis, or even people who have received any sort of official stamp of approval. > P.S. It would be nice if instead of an occasional sop in terms of an > article, the New Yorker hired a jazz/new music critic who wrote well and > knew as much about present day "out" sounds as Whitney Balliet knew about > jazz pre-1960. Yes, it would. (And I know just the right person for the job ;) ) - eric - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Question regarding $4.95 CD site Date: 11 Jun 1999 16:47:26 EDT In a message dated 6/10/99 10:50:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, DRoyko@aol.com writes: << I know I can often be dense with this type of thing, but I've found navigating this site to be a pain in the ass. Can anyone tell me if they know of a way to be able to add discs to the shopping cart, and then return to the original list you're working from? For example, if I've called up all of their Zorn holdings, by the time I click on a selection and then add that to the cart, I've had to re-enter "Zorn" into their search engine and wait for them all to be loaded again. Also, is there a way to scan down all of their jazz holdings, instead of searching by specific artists? >> The best way to manuver the site between the list(s) and your cart is with the browser's "back" key from what I can tell. I have not been able to narrow down the list(s) by anything other than artist a/o title keywords. You may have also guessed that the search engine is a crude one at best. You must use Boolean symbols in order to limit searches (King+Crimson), else the engine only picks up the first word. =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson <JACOBSON@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Question regarding $4.95 CD site Date: 11 Jun 1999 17:42:02 +0100 DRoyko@aol.com wrote: > I know I can often be dense with this type of thing, but I've found > navigating this site to be a pain in the ass. Can anyone tell me if they know > of a way to be able to add discs to the shopping cart, and then return to the > original list you're working from? the only way i've figured out to do this is to apple-click on the link for individual cds, which allows you to add them to the shopping cart in a new window, while maintaining the old window for making further selections. pc-users can right-mouse or whatever kind of nonsense they do. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Saidel <saidel@usl.edu> Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 11 Jun 1999 16:45:31 -0500 > 1. I read the NEW YORKER article and wondered if Zorn had ever read anything > Kaplan had written before, and why he'd agreed to do an interview with > _him_. BTW, I found it to be a great intro article, but still...after that > long a silence, you'd think... I imagine that it was more of a profile/intro article and not in-depth had to do more with what the editors at the New Yorker wanted than with Kaplan. Perhaps the idea of having a profile of himself in a major magazine appealed to Zorn. It can only get him new fans; the more in-depth article that might appeal to us may have significantly less appeal for Zorn, after all, he does have reasons (presumably) for being media shy. > > 2. This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he > stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning > 32,000 records? Is he that popular? I mean, isn't it expensive just to > _exist_ in NYC? According to a friend who lurks in these parts, he makes lots of money from writing music for commercials. I was disappointed (perhaps not the right word) at the size of his book collection (2000 books), although more so at the implication that that's a lot of books. - eric - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 11 Jun 1999 17:58:21 EDT In a message dated 6/11/99 12:54:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us writes: > > He's big in Japan. Yea, but they'll buy anything. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 11 Jun 1999 15:07:50 -0700 On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:45:31 -0500 Eric Saidel wrote: > > I was disappointed (perhaps not the right word) at the size of his book > collection (2000 books), although more so at the implication that that's > a lot of books. Assuming that it takes about 10-20 hours to read a book in average, a ratio of 10-20 between records and books makes quite a bit of sense to me. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Naked City's "Radio" CD FS ... Date: 11 Jun 1999 07:29:27 -0400 Hello ... Anyone need a copy of Naked City's "Radio"? I've got a NEW copy (simply out of the shrinkwrap) FS for $20 US (POSTAGE PAID in North America - add $2 for overseas). Drop me a note if interested. -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca more FS at: http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/sale.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taylor McLaren <paste@interlog.com> Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 11 Jun 1999 20:37:01 -0400 MEEP! Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> wrote: >2. This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he >stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning >32,000 records? Is he that popular? I mean, isn't it expensive just to >_exist_ in NYC? Jim Marcus once wrote something about why he buys records primarily because of their cover art, and went on to say that very few people in the music industry understand anything about why ordinary folks (like him, presumably) buy records, apparently because they get all of their music for free from other people in the industry. And while I'm not going to go along with his blanket condemnation for anything more than a laugh, it's probably worth considering that somebody who runs as (relatively) high-profile a (diverse) label as Tzadik is likely to be deluged with material from prospective signees; I'd also imagine that more than a few of Meester Z's weirdo musician friends pass music around as a sort of creative currency, rather like everybody else does with mix tapes. After all, somebody who isn't a journalist is bound to get a promo copy of an album every now and again, right? -me - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hugues Roulon" <hroulon@club-internet.fr> Subject: Re: touring French "jazz" bands Date: 12 Jun 1999 12:43:26 +0200 > >Later this month the so-called Toronto Jazz Festival is featuring two >bands purported to be from France. Since both are featured in "tent" >shows in this conservative festival, I don't have much hope for anything >out of the ordinary. But one has to hope, doesn't one. > >Anyhow, does anyone in France know anything about: > >Prysm, which seems to have an album out on Blue Note (yikes!)and is >described as "A >French collective which creates rich tapestries of texture and colour" Definitly nothing interesting for the improv' fan in Prysm music... It's classical European Jazz without any creativity. Cheers, Hugues http://www.fennec.digiweb.fr/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Lankin <lankina@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Uri Caine Trio, Myra Melford & Marty Ehrlich duets in Philly concerts Date: 12 Jun 1999 08:22:12 -0400 Wednesday June 16, 1999 - 8 pm (Part of the Mellon Jazz Festival) URI CAINE TRIO Uri Caine piano, Kenny Davis bass, Ralph Peterson drums Ethical Society, 19th & Rittenhouse Square, Philadelphia. $15 Sunday, June 20, 1999 - 7:30 pm (Part of the Mellon Jazz Festival) MYRA MELFORD/MARTY EHRLICH Myra Melford piano, Marty Ehrlich reeds Ethical Society, 19th & Rittenhouse Square, Philadelphia. $15 Sweetnighter Productions concerts. Future concerts THIRTEEN WAYS (July 9th, Fred Hersch, Michael Moore, Gerry Hemingway). http://home.att.net/~lankina/sweetnighter "dedicated to bringing cutting edge jazz to Philadelphia" -- See http://home.att.net/~lankina/sweetnighter for info on this and future concerts. -- To start or stop getting e-mail announcements of future Sweetnighter Concerts, send your name and e-mail address to lankina@att.net. -- jazzmatazz -> http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz upcoming jazz CDs list -> http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz/upcomingcds.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Diego Gruber <dgruber@uio.satnet.net> Subject: Re: suggestions (Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #670) Date: 12 Jun 1999 12:19:27 -0500 I think it is a great idea to put out some kind of FAQ that could help us new zornlisters to have some clue about some of the issues most people here already talking about quite naturally, cause frankly i find myself lost in at least half of your discussions, but anyway this list has led me to find great stuff and know about bands that would otherwise be of complete irrelevance to me. thanks for that people. i know there's a good zorn faq, but it could get expanded on zorn as well as on other bands discussed here. Diego Scott Handley wrote: > > I've found the Zornlist to be a really friendly place, with great "advice", > almost like a suggestive map of strange new territory, even if that > "strange" territory is some subverted familiar, like, say, Caetano Veloso. > I haven't seen anything more than a joke about off-topic-ness in months, I > think. This is a good thing. We trace eraseable boundaries that actually > serve as nothing more than a description of what's possible. Now----ahhh! > Now that I'm done patting my own back I can type faster. > > I don't know if it would be a lost cause to make "suggested records" a FAQ, > w/ taste subjective and all, but it seems we get a fair number of newbies > (not a good word, by the way, for a list where punks can get into Mauricio > Kagel and Dumitrescu and jazzbos or avant-guardians can learn about Napalm > Death or Meshuggah) whose primary exposure is Naked City, Sonic Youth, punk, > etc. While these folks bring an amazing quality to the list, they might be > well-served by a semi-standard FAQ listing some must-have records by some of > the "luminaries", or labels at least. For instance, I would direct a > bebop/freebop fan to Masada. And I would direct all kinds of people to the > LJCO, or Evan Parker, or maybe Joe McPhee, who is bad-ass. It would serve > as a less "bewildering" introduction, and perhaps brief descriptions from > list members could be ore helpful than promo gush. > > Anyway, I'd be interested to know what ya'll think. > > Now, to KruciFly's question: > > 1.) Have you checked out Masada? Bad-ass! > > 2.) Amazing Canadian composer/saxist Jean Derome can be seen as the > Quebecois answer to Zorn, but he isn't nearly as recognized. I mean > the _Penguin Guide_ snubs him! Crazy! I like his band Dangereux > Zhoms, which might be akin to Naked City, in some superficial and > essential ways (the pomo layers and jumpcuts, but slower). They have > a 3-CD box which is fine, though all are available separately. > Derome also has an album of "ballet" music, rather quiet, called LA > BETE, which I adore. He is brilliant. A whole circle of brilliant > improvisor-composers surrounds him, based in Montreal (??). A frequent > collaborator is the brilliant, sick guitarist Rene Lussier, who has > a great duo record w/ turntable sicko Martin Tetreault. All these records > are on the nifty Ambiances Magnetiques label (www.cam.org/~dame_cd). > > 3.) If you like Sonic Youth, perhaps you would enjoy Thurston Moore's free > improv records w/ and w/out William Hooker? Or his brand new trio record w/ > amazing saxophonist Evan Parker, who turns the tenor and soprano saxophones > into columns of fluid sentient vines? One of my favorite Evan Parker > records, and a great way in, would be 50th BIRTHDAY CONCERT, a 2CD > free-improv "masterpiece". Or the trio record BREATHS AND HEARTBEATS, which > is absolutely fantastic, IMHO. > > 4.) Gyorgy Ligeti, Kryzstof Penderecki, Iancu Dumitrescu, and Bela Bartok > have all written "concert" music for large and small ensembles that really > cooks. The two EMI "Matrix"-series releases for Penderecki are huge insane > oceans of sound and timbre, ranging from the inauduble to the deafening. A > lot of it scares me. A bargain trip to hell. > > 5.) Peter Brotzmann also seems to know something about hell. A > tenor-playing harbinger of doom and R&B, known for his all-out 1968 assault, > MACHINE GUN. I like his Die Like a Dog Quartet, which really slips into a > strange kind of "groove". Definitely free improv. I was so blown away by > his duo w/ drummer Andrew Cyrille in Atlanta, I was screaming. (Charles > Mingus' reaction to seeing the Ellington band for the first time, BTW...) > > 6.) I love Tim Berne, saxist/composer. His FULTON STREET MAUL is a great > record, but my fave are the first three Bloocount records on JMT, which are > pretty much out of print (though you should check out his Screwgun label' s > website for cool stuff). Huge, long compositions with noise, space, silence > and groove. > > Those are just some things I like. > > -----s > > >From: KruciFly@aol.com > >hello. i'm new on the list. > >i am all but completely lost on the musical subjects you continually > >discuss. > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeni Dahmus <jdah@loc.gov> Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 12 Jun 1999 17:09:14 -0400 (EDT) > 2. This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he > stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning > 32,000 records? Is he that popular? I mean, isn't it expensive just to > _exist_ in NYC? Yes, he is that popular. You may not realize how much composers of his stature get paid for commissions. Jeni - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: ESP again? Date: 12 Jun 1999 19:24:47 -0400 >June issue of Jazziz, Via was planning to reissue the first 10 ESP-Disk >recordings chronologically in April, but it seems that they missed the I saw this the day after the post (mainly because it's hard to find Jazziz around here without the CD; if the disc reflected more of the editorial content I would welcome it but who needs more schlock jazz?). Wonder if the "first 10" includes the learn Esperanto album? And wonder if they'll be as low-priced as the ZYX ones? And wonder if this will ever come to pass? LT Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 Singapore Film Fest at World Cinema Review http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4/wcr.htm Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 Singapore Film Fest at World Cinema Review http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4/wcr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Saidel <saidel@usl.edu> Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 12 Jun 1999 19:38:32 -0500 Taylor McLaren wrote: > Jim Marcus once wrote something about why he buys records primarily because > of their cover art, and went on to say that very few people in the music > industry understand anything about why ordinary folks (like him, > presumably) buy records, apparently because they get all of their music for > free from other people in the industry. There's probably a lot of truth in this. (Although I can't imagine that many people who buy plenty of records or who care what the people in the industry think/do/say/etc. buy records because of their cover art.) Alex Ross - classical music critic of the New Yorker summed it up quite nicely in his review of the recent multi-disc set (like 100) of the best piano recordings: many critical notices read like thank you letters to the labels for the free cds. > And while I'm not going to go along > with his blanket condemnation for anything more than a laugh, it's probably > worth considering that somebody who runs as (relatively) high-profile a > (diverse) label as Tzadik is likely to be deluged with material from > prospective signees; I'd also imagine that more than a few of Meester Z's > weirdo musician friends pass music around as a sort of creative currency, > rather like everybody else does with mix tapes. After all, somebody who > isn't a journalist is bound to get a promo copy of an album every now and > again, right? I bet this is right, although I can't imagine a significant proportion of Zorn's collection comes from prospective signees. More probably comes from other artists who want to share their work. Even so, he probably had to buy a lot before he reached that stature. And even casual listening shows just how big his ears are - we could have figured that he has an enormous collection just by listening to his music. - eric - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: jeanne lee Date: 12 Jun 1999 21:46:02 -0400 > Dante Sawyer wrote: > > try to find a copy of conspiracy!. i think it was issued on two labels: > earthform and seed. it's hard to find but worth it. features hampel, sam > rivers, dave holland, and others. pretty killing. Actually it's the Earthform label, select # Seeds 5. Just back from Moab, RL -- Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, William Parker, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman Discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ***Very Various Music For Sale: ***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: $4.95, too good to be true?? Date: 12 Jun 1999 22:04:09 -0400 David Jeffrey wrote: > > I just received my order - minus one that item marked "s/o" as sold out - > I was also charged for the out-of-stock item as well. > Too much risk in this game... When tis happens you'll usually receive a credit in te list on your CC bill. Anyway, ordered 10 CDs (9 soulnotes and a Knit) on May 21-- A box was waiting for me, came while I was out of town since last Saturday. Otay. Hope this works out for everyone else. Just back from Moab, RL -- Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, William Parker, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman Discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ***Very Various Music For Sale: ***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 13 Jun 1999 01:01:25 EDT > > 2. This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he > > stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be > owning > > 32,000 records? Is he that popular? I mean, isn't it expensive just to > > _exist_ in NYC? This may be an unfashionable answer. He is extremely popular and very successful. I'd guess that the money he gets from the four or five gigs he does a month in NYC more than pays for his living expenses. And his cost of living isnt that high.... the story I heard (from close to the horses mouth) is that back in the early 80's he, Elliott Sharp and whoever else was living in his building at the time, bought the building from the city in a tax default. And they were (are) all paying a ridiculously low amount of $ each month... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Goldman <telly_o@softhome.net> Subject: Re: Clarinetist w/ Masada Date: 13 Jun 1999 12:59:55 +0200 > I saw Masada at the Knitting factory in about June 1994. I think I > remember that there was a clarinet player with a crewcut. Kenny > Wollensen drummed that night, and John Zorn was very appreciative of his > playing. Who was the clarinettist? Probably Chris Speed, who sometimes sports a crewcut and appears on the Masada String disks(as well as on his own, with Dave Douglas, Tim Berne, and Myra Melford). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott" <scott@burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Updates sale/exchange list Date: 13 Jun 1999 17:24:25 +0100 For anyone who's interestes my exchange sale list has just been updated. Featuring new additions inc Jad Fair, Albert Ayler, Henry Kaiser, Ornette Coleman, Matthew Shipp and, of special interest to Zorn listers, a copy of Intergalactic Maiden Ballet. Check it out at http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk/list.html White Noise For experimental events in Scotland http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 14 Jun 1999 00:38:09 -0500 IOUaLive1@aol.com wrote: > mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us writes: > > > > > He's big in Japan. > > Yea, but they'll buy anything. Flip comment I know, but what's the deal with the Japanese music consumer? A lot of American jazz was issued first in Japan, or exclusively in Japan. I don't think the prices are cheaper there. Is the listening public more adventurous, or more fixated upon improvisation, or simply more interested in music? Just wondering, and thought maybe someone could shed some insight on this. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: music zorn likes Date: 14 Jun 1999 01:58:50 EDT In a message dated 6/14/99 12:33:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu writes: > IOUaLive1@aol.com wrote: > > mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us writes: > > > > > > > > He's big in Japan. > > > > Yea, but they'll buy anything. > > Flip comment I know, but what's the deal with the Japanese music > consumer? A lot of American jazz was issued first in Japan, or > exclusively in Japan. I don't think the prices are cheaper there. Is > the listening public more adventurous, or more fixated upon > improvisation, or simply more interested in music? Just wondering, and > thought maybe someone could shed some insight on this. Ive been to Japan, and in the big music stores (HMV, Tower) It looks alot like the big stores over here, bins filled with American artists. Then theres a much smaller section devoted to music from Japan. (And lots of other sub-sections). They love anything from America. I havent seen any stats, but its my guess that they buy more CDs per capita than any other country. -Jody - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size But what You Do With It Date: 14 Jun 1999 13:05:25 GMT0BST FWIW, In (late) 1989, while touring the UK with Naked City, Zorn claimed to have 15,000 records. I remember this quite vividly, because of its proximity to his "the money thing's a pain in the ass" comment, and my interest in whether or not the two were in conflict. Looks like he's been acquiring 'em at an average rate of 4.7 a day since then. Whew! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeni Dahmus <jdah@loc.gov> Subject: The Boredoms rock DC Date: 14 Jun 1999 10:21:42 -0400 (EDT) The Boredoms slayed me again last night! They sounded better at the 9:30 Club than at the Bell Atlantic Jazz Fest. The sets were similar but the DC show was less ambient. There was even a long encore, and for a moment I thought there might be a second encore too. I was pleased to see an enthusiastic crowd in DC; certainly there were a few doing the DC "stand still" but overall people seemed into it. Jeni - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size... + Art Date: 14 Jun 1999 14:33:25 GMT Sean Wilkie wrote: >In (late) 1989, while touring the UK with Naked City, Zorn claimed to >have 15,000 records. I remember this quite vividly, because of its >proximity to his "the money thing's a pain in the ass" comment, and >my interest in whether or not the two were in conflict. > >Looks like he's been acquiring 'em at an average rate of 4.7 a day >since then. Whew! Whew indeed. I suppose I could've broken 2000 by now if I didn't have book and film habits, but still be broke either way. This is a wanker's question, but I know many of you ladies and gents have been collecting avidly (for content, of course!) for many, many years: would anyone care to mention how many pieces are in their audio collection? Excluding tapes, I have perhaps just over a thousand LPs and CDs. Pretty small, huh? Seems almost unmanagemable to me. I'm reading Delillo's UNDERWORLD, finally, and I am reminded of the brief rash of book reviews on this list at one point last year. I enjoy that occasionally, but was wondering if anyone cares to comment on art that has moved and/or stimulated him/her? We've touched on this, and I feel that it could be very Zorn-pertinent. For example, in passing I saw a photo of a Christian Marclay (sick turntablist, for the uninitiated) sculpture the other day, what appeared to be a huge mobius strip composed of sheets of assembled cassette tapes. I don't a hell of a lot about art, but I'm learning. I know I like Ceindy SHerman, for now. What's happening in art, now? What are the issues? -----s, semi-topically _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott" <scott@burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size But what You Do With It Date: 14 Jun 1999 16:56:51 +0100 I find this whole thread distinctly unwholesome. My first reaction to the initial question of how can Zorn afford to have 32,000 albums was what the fuck's it got to do with you? I mean how the guy spends his money and whether or not he should or shouldn't be able to afford a collection like this is nobody's business but his! On a less strident note, I bet there are plenty people on this list with many thousands of albums. I have spent more than 15 years building up a collection which I regard as subtantial (and I'm not going to get into saying how many) and it took (and still takes) a lot of work. How often did you get criticised for following your interests? If JZ wants to spend all his time and money collecting records so what? It's what he does! It has inforkmed his whole view about playing and composing. It seems weird to me to suggest that his manic collecting is anything other than absolutely predictable! As for collecting at the rate of 4.7 discs a day, I've had plenty days where I've acquired 8 or 10. I assume JZ is in the lucky position of having access to areas we can't get to and can afford to pick up whole collections at a time. Something I'll bet any of us would die for. I think this thread is born out of jealousy. Scott Russell White Noise For experimental events in Scotland http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk Weird music for sale/exchange http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk/list.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com> Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size But what You Do With It Date: 14 Jun 1999 11:14:08 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Scott wrote: > I think this thread is born out of jealousy. I have to disagree. I think that this thread is born out the fact that many of us have quite substantial collections of our own and are wondering how Zorn has managed to collect a staggering amount of records and still pay rent, utilities, etc. I have noticed that among people who are "collectors," speaking about and comparing collections is quite common. I don't think that this makes us any different than a group of collectors of anything (baseball cards, rare books, etc.). I am not jealous of Zorn, in fact I admire him. To accumulate such an incredible library must have taken years of work. I'm part of the way there. Perhaps I'll never reach Zorn-status, but who cares? Regards, Paul psaudino@interaccess.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size But what You Do With It Date: 14 Jun 1999 17:16:50 GMT >From: "Scott" <scott@burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk> >I find this whole thread distinctly unwholesome. My first reaction to the >initial question of how can Zorn afford to have 32,000 albums was what the >fuck's it got to do with you? I mean how the guy spends his money and >whether or not he should or shouldn't be able to afford a collection like >this is nobody's business but his! First: why throw a tantrum on this list? Second: I don't gauge life in terms of "business". No question I ask you or anyone else is "my business". You are not required to answer, and Zorn is not required to know that any of us exist to discuss him in first place (apparently he didn't, until recently). I once asked Evan Parker about his kids. _That_ might've been stupid. But for a list of individuals---designed to discuss Zorn's goings-on---to discuss a super-prominent aspect of his mythos, personality, creative process, and theory...is _that_ the product of "jealousy"? Or admiration? Or innocent curiosity? Do you realize how often Zorn talks about his records in interviews, apparently without being asked? He is almost as famous for his fabled record collection as he is for his work. >On a less strident note, I bet there are plenty people on this list with >many thousands of albums....How often did >you get criticised for following your interests? I laughably thought myself a bit of fanboy for asking the collection-size question, but fact is: we are some record-collecting motherfuckers. I found it interesting and a little funny. It isn't a criticism, and what if it is? Hit delete. Silence is a deafening cure for idiocy, online. No one should be made to feel afraid to ASK anything, god damn it. Especially here. This isn't a graduate seminar. >It has inforkmed his whole view about playing and composing. >It seems weird to me to suggest that his manic collecting is anything other >than absolutely predictable! Wilkie and I neither wrote anything that could be reasonably interpreted as such. >I assume JZ is in the lucky position of having access >to areas we can't get to and can afford to pick up whole collections at a >time. Something I'll bet any of us would die for. > >I think this thread is born out of jealousy. You are not feeling well, apparently. Our inquiry---our VERY PRESENCE on this list---is one part starfucking, two parts serious interest in the pure transcendent and/or utterly abject bliss that is listening. Emphasis on listening. I don't mind going TEEN BEAT once in a while and discussing crazy things like "how does he afford it?" I'm a damn materialist, so I'm going to wonder. The very idea of being bitter towards a celebrity I don't know strikes me as being _psycho_, something I am clearly not. DELETE DELETE DELETE. SO freakin easy. Have you met the Man? I have, and I had nothing to say, and it was hilarious and embarrassing. And he was exhausted, but he was more gracious and less condescending than you're being right now. Cheers, s _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeni Dahmus <jdah@loc.gov> Subject: Re: music zorn likes/New Yorker article Date: 14 Jun 1999 14:03:50 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 11 Jun 1999, Eric Saidel wrote: > the more in-depth article that might appeal to us may have significantly > less appeal for Zorn, after all, he does have reasons (presumably) for > being media shy. Zorn seems to shy away from scholarly articles and publicity in general because he wants the music to speak for itself. Plus, publishing an in-depth paper can be very difficult since there is so much competition to get into periodicals like the Journal of the American Musicological Society, for instance. Overall I think the Kaplan article is a nice piece. It is quite appropriate for the New Yorker's audience. I really like Kaplan's use of quotations by Harrington and am anxiously waiting for the string quartets to be released! It was odd that Kaplan did not specifically mention Zorn's most recent classical pieces like Le Momo and Amour Fou. I would like to expand on Kaplan's statement: "These days, he [Zorn] tends to write straight through, from start to finish." It is not that simple. In some program notes I wrote back in March, Zorn describes his new compositional process. He was reluctant to talk about it at first, but I was persistent. Here's an excerpt from the notes: (Sorry for the duplication if you have seen this already. The diacritics and italics did not come through--Momo has a circumflex over the first "o.") Le Momo Composed from October 1998 to January 1999, Le Momo was commissioned by the Library of Congress with support from the McKim Fund and is John Zorn's first composition for violin and piano. The piece is inspired by the work of Antonin Artaud (1896-1948), a French poet, dramatist, actor, and theoretician of the Surrealist movement who founded the "Theatre of Cruelty." Le Momo is named after Artaud's poem of the same title, in which the word momo, a slang term from the Marseilles region where Artaud was born, can be translated as "brat," "village idiot," or "simpleton"; the poem celebrates the return of Artaud, "the village idiot from Marseilles," to the outside world after his nine-year incarceration in insane asylums. Le Momo is one of Zorn's new compositions in a series based on Surrealist artists. The series includes a piano trio entitled Amour Fou ("Mad Love") inspired by the poet and critic Andre Breton (1896-1966), as well as a solo violoncello piece influenced by Joseph Cornell (1903-1972), an American artist known for his enigmatic shadowbox constructions. In composing Le Momo, Zorn ascribed a series of pitches to nonsense, chantlike texts of Artaud; letters of the alphabet received different pitches, resulting in over two hundred sets of pitches that could serve as melodies or harmonies, if stacked. Throughout the piece, a pitch set is repeated and recontextualized in each instance. Le Momo is a sort of rapid perpetuum mobile, but with periods of tension and release. Zorn used this compositional technique--one quite different from his prior methods--to yield a hypnotic, ritualistic feeling which he found important in Artaud's work. Describing his process, Zorn says, "I wanted to create a hypnotic effect in my own brain when I was writing it. Sometimes I thought I had to hypnotize myself before I could begin working on the piece. I would often just stare at the page for an hour or two, kind of getting back into where the piece is, to find out where it could be going." Zorn likens his current compositional process to going on a trip or exhibition: full of surprises and unexpected twists and turns, staying on the predetermined map, yet allowing for spontaneous detours along the way. As he puts it, "What I like to do is just begin and through composing, work my way through to the end of the piece. Each day I work a little bit on it and find a solution to the problem that is in front of me. It's kind of like going on a trip. You are not quite sure, you could make a turn here or take a detour there or go straight ahead. Each day I make decisions on where I am going with the piece and I let it grow. There is a basic framework that I like a piece to have, and there are things that belong in the frame and things that don't belong in the frame. Obviously the frame is what gives the piece its structure, sense of unity, and form. I like to keep it a very intuitive thing. In that sense the piece is constantly--as I make decisions--stretching the frame; things are trying to climb out of the frame, and it is my job to make sure that everything stays in the frame." As Zorn's musical language has evolved, his method of composition has changed from notating musical fragments on file cards or sketching game pieces on a blackboard, to creating a work much like a sculptor chips away at a block of marble--carefully, patiently, and constantly attuned to the varying shapes that emerge with every stroke. Jeni - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: music zorn likes/New Yorker article Date: 14 Jun 1999 11:13:14 -0700 Talking about articles on John Zorn, JAZZIZ has one planned in the August issue. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: $4.95 CD site--thanks and gripe Date: 14 Jun 1999 14:06:49 EDT Thanks to all who answered my question about navigating between my shopping cart and search-results lists. The back-up arrow on other sites usually ends up with an emptied cart, but not on this site-go figure. I have 15 CDs ordered, but I think I'd be ordering more if it weren't for one very large drawback--their minimal info regarding classical recordings. For most of their classical recordings, there's no way to get any info besides the works recorded--no artists, or even the label. This is frustrating as hell. Unless I know a disc I'm interested in has an unusual program (Brahm's violin concerto coupled with the third violin sonata virtually guarentees it is Vengerov's recording), or a specific title of some kind ("Tribute to Solti"), you can't figure out what recording it is. One very weird example is a listing of Beethoven string quartets "1-15" for 4.95. Beethoven wrote 16 quartets, and I doubt that they are selling an almost complete set of his quartets for $5, and I have no idea who the performers are anyway. Can't really complain too much at this price, and it is probably a good thing that they are so stingy with info on classical CDs, because I'd probably be ordering 50 more discs otherwise. Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: Big in Japan Date: 14 Jun 1999 14:54:04 -0500 > > > He's big in Japan. > > > > Yea, but they'll buy anything. > > Flip comment I know, but what's the deal with the Japanese music > consumer? A lot of American jazz was issued first in Japan, or > exclusively in Japan. I don't think the prices are cheaper there. Is > the listening public more adventurous, or more fixated upon > improvisation, or simply more interested in music? Just wondering, and > thought maybe someone could shed some insight on this. Maybe it's just a case of the grass always being more avant gard on the other side of the ocean. Here in NYC, I'm often surprised at how easy it is to find multiple copies of titles by Tatsuya Yoshida, Haino Keiji, EYE/Boredoms, etc. Very often, I'm aware of a dozen copies or so in a 10 block radius of a recording that's in a ltd. edition of less than 500. The 'doms had a big and enthusiastic when they played this fool shopping mall the Knit rented for its fest last week. I don't know how big their audiences are in Japan, but Tatsuya, Umezu, Hoppy Kamiyama and others tell me they do better in the US than in Japan. No doubt a NYC audience is to be desired if you want a US record contract. But I've seen KKNull, Hoppy (with The Poool) and Acid Mothers for free in the past couple months, and they were all paid (by the Whitney through grants or whatever The Cooler pays for its free shows -- something, not a lot, from what I'm told). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size But what You Do With It Date: 14 Jun 1999 14:57:15 -0400 (EDT) I think the reason we're all getting a little hot until the collar (or maybe the jewel box) is that we're not so much interested in the "size" of JZ's collection, it's what's in it. As someone who used to review records in his callow youth, I know how much crap gets pushed out by the major labels. Yet all of us spend our days haunting record stores to constantly check if another exceptional and/or elusive disk has turned up. Thus rather than having a basement full of Suepertramp, Dave Sanborn or Peter Allen LPs, we figure Zorn's collection probably includes the-issued- only-in-Japan Sunny's Time Now by Sunny Murray, a bootleg CDR of Albert Ayler playing at Trane funeral ,some hard-to-find Brotzmann LPs with Bennik and Van Hove and the long-rumored and highly-collectible Derek Bailey-Mississippi John Hurt duets [just made that last one up]. We want to ooh and ah over his good fortune and have him give us a couple of leads about where to find the good stuff. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net (who long ago lost count of his LPs, but is on a campaign to file every one of his CDs) (N.P. Spiritual Alignment, Blancing Vol. 1 with Raphe Malik) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size But what You Do With It Date: 14 Jun 1999 13:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Scott Handley, demi-God and Icon sez: > > You are not required to answer, and Zorn is not required to know that any >of us exist to discuss him in first place (apparently he didn't, until >recently). Nah, he's known for at least 2-3 years (I told him about it myself)...and it's likely I told him even farther back, but you see I'm an old fart and my memory... :) >Have you met the Man? I have, and I had nothing to say, and it was >hilarious and embarrassing. And he was exhausted, but he was more gracious >and less condescending than you're being right now. beautiful...one of the nicer finales to a flame retort...slam, dunk. mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "lava" <lovevolv@dti.net> Subject: boredoms again Date: 14 Jun 1999 16:26:14 -0400 boredoms show added cbgb's tuesday night - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size But what You Do With It Date: 14 Jun 1999 16:35:14 EDT When I saw the "32,000" number, I thought, "OK, one of US!" I didn't know Zorn was a record collector on that scale. And those who assume most musicians are record collectors are off-base. I've known many who have little interest in acquiring recordings. I also didn't get the sense that people were criticizing his record habit. Somewhat amazed, maybe, with a mix of admiration and envy, which is how I reacted, and my LP/CD collection is approximately half the size of his, so it is not like I can't understand the drive to hear and to collect that would get Zorn to that point. And as to whether or not this thread is "distinctly unwholesome," I had to chuckle considering that many of Zorn's recordings, as well as recordings by others on his label, as well as some of the artwork that appears on the covers of his label's CDs, as well as the films for which he has scored music, could be described as unwholsome in the extreme. Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MeandMrRay@aol.com Subject: Mr.Bungle "California" Date: 14 Jun 1999 16:54:34 EDT Hello Everyone, Just got my hands on a "CD-Refrence" copy and thought I might pass along the track listings. Does anyone have any info on the musicians on the disc? My copy just has a plain white cover from Warner Bros. Here's the track listings: 1. Sweet Charity 2. None Of Them Knew They Were Robots 3. Retrovertigo 4. The Air-Conditioned Nightmare 5. Ars Moriendi 6. Pink Cigarette 7. Golem II : The Bionic Vapour Boy 8. The Holy Filament 9. Vanity Fair 10. Goodbye Sober Day Says the release date is the 13th of next month. Its just under 45mins. I'm really enjoying it, but still only developing my first impressions. Hope this info is of some interest to someone. Greg. PS> on the "How does Zorn get money to buy 6 trillion records" thread, doesn't ha get paid big bucks to score commercials in Japan? That would pay for a healthty record buying habit, wouldn't you think? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size But what You Do With It Date: 14 Jun 1999 21:27:11 GMT >From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> >Scott Handley, demi-God and Icon sez: > > > > You are not required to answer, and Zorn is not required to know that >any > >of us exist to discuss him in first place (apparently he didn't, until > >recently)[snip] > beautiful...one of the nicer finales to a > flame retort...slam, dunk. > > mike This of course is great for my ego. With my clean, unoccupied hand, however, I should mention to the list that Scottish Scott sent me a very articulate, sensible reply, making it abundantly clear that my interpretation of his interpretation was really not all that on...no harm done. I think I cleared my arteries tho. Peace, ----s, who will pay top dollar for amint copy of that Derek Bailey/Mississippi JohnHurt record _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jls@tonic107.com (John Scott) Subject: Hips Road Summer Sessions at Tonic Date: 14 Jun 1999 17:56:46 -0400 Hips Road Summer Sessions curated by John Zorn The Summer Sessions begin this week as part of Zorn's second annual New Music Festival at Tonic! Marc Ribot - Guitar Question & Answer (06/17/99 3 to 5:00pm) Elliott Sharp - Notation Systems (06/18/99 Noon to 2:00pm) William Parker - Construction of Creative Music (06/18/99 3 to 5:00pm) Henry Threadgill - Question & Answer (06/19/99 3 to 5:00pm) Wadada Leo Smith - Creative Music (06/19/99 Noon to 2:00pm) Anthony Coleman - Composition (06/21/99 Noon to 2:00pm) Dave Douglas - Ear Training and Improvisation (06/21/99 3 to 5:00pm) Joey Baron - The Drum Set (06/22/99 Noon to 2:00pm) Joe Lovano - Group Improvisation (06/22/99 3 to 5:00pm) Steve Coleman - Beginner Rhythmic Concepts (06/23/99 Noon to 2:00pm) Steve Coleman - Advanced Rhythmic Concepts (06/23/99 3 to 5:00pm) Tim Berne - Starting Your Own Label (06/24/99 Noon to 2:00pm) Medeski, Martin & Wood - Touring and Recording as a Band (06/24/99 3 to 5:00pm) Shelley Hirsch - Voice Extensions (06/25/99 Noon to 2:00pm) Meredith Monk - Voice and Performance (06/25/99 3 to 5:00pm) Mark Dresser - Extended Bass Techniques (06/26/99 Noon to 2:00pm) Milford Graves - Grand Unification (06/26/99 3 to 5:00pm) John Zorn - Question & Answer (06/27/99 10:00am to Noon) David Krakauer - Klezmer and Beyond (06/28/99 3 to 5:00pm) Cyro Baptista - Brazilian Percussion (06/28/99 Noon to 2:00pm) Allan Tucker - The Intricacies of CD Mastering (06/29/99 3 to 5:00pm) Jim Anderson - Microphone Placement and Recording (06/29/99 Noon to 2:00pm) Vernon Reid - So, you want to be a rock star? (06/30/99 3 to 5:00pm) Jim O'Rourke - Electronic Music (06/30/99 Noon to 2:00pm) Check www.tonic107.com or call 212-358-7501 for details and registration information. Some upcoming New Music Festival dates at Tonic... Tue, Jun 22: Dave Douglas' No Sanction at 8:00pm Wed, Jun 23: Tim Berne's Bloodcount at 10:00pm Wed, Jun 30: Arto Lindsay at 10:00pm Fri, Jul 02: Prelapse at 8:00pm Tue, Jul 06: John Zorn Solo Fri, Jul 16: Joey Baron at 8:00pm Fri, Jul 16: Ruins at 10:00pm Sat, Jul 31: John Zorn Improv Party at 8:00pm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeni Dahmus <jdah@loc.gov> Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size But what You Do With It Date: 14 Jun 1999 18:02:08 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, m. rizzi wrote: > Scott Handley, demi-God and Icon sez: > > > > You are not required to answer, and Zorn is not required to know that any > >of us exist to discuss him in first place (apparently he didn't, until > >recently). > > Nah, he's known for at least 2-3 years (I told > him about it myself)...and it's likely I told > him even farther back, but you see I'm an old > fart and my memory... I'm the one who mentioned the issue on the list a few months ago. When I asked Zorn about the listserv, he claimed he didn't even know what one was. I guess he forgot or misunderstood. Jeni - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KruciFly@aol.com Subject: ......... Date: 14 Jun 1999 19:19:40 EDT In a message dated 6/14/99 2:28:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << I have 15 CDs ordered >> Comment 1: wait a minute, i thought you could only order 5...... Comment 2: Does anyone know anything about various types of art , specifically surrealist...? Comment 3: About all this bickering about JZ's record collection, i personally don't care about the size of it, that doesn't matter, but i would'nt mind knowing it's content. However, it sure isn't worth a damn arguing about ..... Ben .......krucifly - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Seth Gowans <phxbodhi@home.com> Subject: Introduction Date: 14 Jun 1999 03:55:04 -0700 Hi all. I'm a new subscriber to the list. I was pointed this way from the Miles Davis Listserv. I live in Phoenix, AZ which means that I'll probably NEVER have the opportunity to see Zorn live without major effort. Oh well. I started listening to Zorn in about 1989 when I head a Spillane excerpt on a 20th century music sampler along with works by Volans, Adams, the Bulgarian Womens' Choir, World Sax Quartet, Reich and Scott Johnson. The sampler was called "Late in the 20th Century" and really turned me on to many of these performers and composers. On a sidenote does anyone know of any other recordings by Scott Johnson. I have the "John Somebody" CD and several Kronos Quartet CD's with his pieces and would love to know if there are others available. On JZ's CD collection topic, I think that it might stem more from *awe* rather than jealousy. I've been an avid CD collector since my early teens in the mid-eighties and am up around 1200 right now. I always love to hear of the diversity of other people's collections as well as hearing of the rarities and oddities that invariably show up in large collections. I look forward to finding out more about Zorn's MO, and gaining a better understanding of where his music is coming from. Happy Travels, Seth G. Phoenix, AZ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Introduction Date: 14 Jun 1999 17:32:51 -0700 On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:55:04 -0700 Seth Gowans wrote: > > I started listening to Zorn in about 1989 when I head a Spillane excerpt > on a 20th century music sampler along with works by Volans, Adams, the > Bulgarian Womens' Choir, World Sax Quartet, Reich and Scott Johnson. > The sampler was called "Late in the 20th Century" and really turned me ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's was a great sampler. > on to many of these performers and composers. On a sidenote does anyone > know of any other recordings by Scott Johnson. I have the "John > Somebody" CD and several Kronos Quartet CD's with his pieces and would > love to know if there are others available. If I remember well, he has (at least) another record called PATTY HEARST. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net> Subject: Re: Introduction Date: 14 Jun 1999 20:55:36 -0400 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > If I remember well, he has (at least) another record called PATTY HEARST. That's the soundtrack to Paul Schraeder's (excellent) movie of the same title (Nonesuch 9-79186-2); it's pretty good, using some of the techniques found in 'John Somebody', filled out with several musicians including Michael Riesman, Bill Ruyle and Sue Evans. Haven't heard any recent recorded work (wasn't there something on Avant?), but have caught a couple of live performances in the past three or four years and wasn't too thrilled. A bit too much contrived "complex" rhythms overlaid with fusiony electric guitar for my taste. As long as we're on the topic, Schraeder (one of the handful of directors who I'll drop everything to go and see a new work of) has a habit of using relatively interesting composers for his soundtracks and inerweaving their music with the movie in a compelling way. Check out Glass' work in Schraeder's incredible 'Mishima'. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: Introduction Date: 14 Jun 1999 21:01:58 -0400 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:55:04 -0700 Seth Gowans wrote: > > > > on to many of these performers and composers. On a sidenote does anyone > > know of any other recordings by Scott Johnson. I have the "John > > Somebody" CD and several Kronos Quartet CD's with his pieces and would > > love to know if there are others available. > > If I remember well, he has (at least) another record called PATTY HEARST. Oh yes. Soundtrack to the Paul Schrader film. Worth seeing, the S/T does great justice to the opening. Good stuff, RL -- Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, William Parker, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman Discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ***Very Various Music For Sale: ***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Introduction Date: 14 Jun 1999 21:02:21 EDT In a message dated 6/14/99 8:34:14 PM, phxbodhi@home.com writes: << On a sidenote does anyone know of any other recordings by Scott Johnson. I have the "John Somebody" CD and several Kronos Quartet CD's with his pieces and would love to know if there are others available. >> I have a CD by him called Rock/Paper/Scissors on Point, on which Erik Friedlander is one of the four musicians, but I don't remember much about it. so anyone see any of the food court South Street Seaport What Is Jazz? shows? what a joke that venue is. I was intrigued to hear that Sonic Youth played a James Tenney cover last night, though. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com> Subject: Gainsbourg Date: 14 Jun 1999 20:10:52 -0500 (CDT) Hello, Can anyone recommend the 3-CD set _De Gainsbourg A Gainsbarre _ that Polygram France relased not too long ago? Thanks, Paul psaudino@interaccess.com GROOVE ---------- One Nation - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KruciFly@aol.com Subject: John Coltrane etc. Date: 14 Jun 1999 22:11:59 EDT please someone direct me to the best works of: John Coltrane Ornette Coleman i have heard random works of both which i liked, but i need a base point. also: Ives Partch Varese Stravinsky Lee Konitz Carl Stalling Ohta Hiromi Ennio Morricone As of right now i'm just picking up names as i hear them.... Being of the age 16 and living in the pit of TN i do, info about many of these artists is hard to find. Thanks be to anyone who can offer help. Ben ........................Krucifly - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net> Subject: Let's Get Delusional! Date: 14 Jun 1999 23:02:14 -0400 Great news for Partchaholics: The Partch page, Corporeal Meadows, reports that 'Delusion of the Fury' will finally see the light of digital day as "Enclosure 6", due to be released late this summer!!! Brian Olewnick (Very much hoping they include the instrument demonstration record in the package) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Zachary J. Griffin" <zgriffin@iconn.net> Subject: [Fwd: John Coltrane etc.] Date: 14 Jun 1999 23:11:39 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------54BE68B7C8CA999A8F14EAFB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------54BE68B7C8CA999A8F14EAFB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3765C3FB.A42BDA8E@iconn.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <16461fa4.2497106f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For starters on Morricone, try "A Fistful of Film Music" on Rhino Records. Or the soudtracks to the movies "A Fistful of Dollars" or "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly". Carl Stalling you most likely have heard many times. He did the all the music for the Warner Brothers (Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck) cartoons up to the 1950's. As far as what's on CD, I only know about "The Carl Stalling Project" on Warner Brothers Records. For John Coltrane, any of the John Coltrane Quartet CD's on Impulse records are wonderful. But if you want to start at the beginning of his bandleader career, check out "Giant Steps". I don't remember if that was his first album as bandleader, but I know it is one of his first. The Ornette Coleman starter kit would have to include "The Shape of Jazz to Come", "Somethin' Else", "Free Jazz" (although I would wait until you are ready to listen to a 30+ minute piece of music, as great as it is). The others I have to admit that my knowledge is very small. I hope others can shed some light for you. Because I want to know where to go myself. Especially with Varese and Stravinsky. Good luck on your hunt, Zach Griffin KruciFly@aol.com wrote: > please someone direct me to the best works of: > John Coltrane > Ornette Coleman > > i have heard random works of both which i liked, but i need a base point. > also: > Ives > Partch > Varese > Stravinsky > Lee Konitz > Carl Stalling > Ohta Hiromi > Ennio Morricone > > As of right now i'm just picking up names as i hear them.... > Being of the age 16 and living in the pit of TN i do, info about many of > these artists is hard to find. > Thanks be to anyone who can offer help. > > Ben ........................Krucifly > > - --------------54BE68B7C8CA999A8F14EAFB-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Egan" <degan1@telisphere.com> Subject: RE: Let's Get Delusional! Date: 14 Jun 1999 20:13:09 -0700 The URL by the way, is www.corporeal.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Brian Olewnick Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 8:02 PM Great news for Partchaholics: The Partch page, Corporeal Meadows, reports that 'Delusion of the Fury' will finally see the light of digital day as "Enclosure 6", due to be released late this summer!!! Brian Olewnick (Very much hoping they include the instrument demonstration record in the package) - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbayweb.com> Subject: Re: John Coltrane etc. Date: 14 Jun 1999 21:24:36 -0700 I will try to help as well as I can despite the gutting of my Varese and Stravinsky collections. The recording "The Complete Works of Edgard Varese", conducted by Richard Chailly and performed by the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, is available as a two cd set. This version of the complete works is valuable for it's inclusion of the original "Poeme Electronique", which I'm not sure is available on other recordings. However, the singer chosen for the performance of "Offrandes" is a little too "operatic" for the part and manages to kill the haunting beauty of the second song, "La Croix Du Sud", quite completely. A different collection conducted by Kent Nagano is in my opinion far superior. This is probably because "La Croix Du Sud" is one of my favourite pieces, and the singer on the Nagano release sings much more in keeping with how I like to hear it. Believe it or not, my Nagano-conducted copy was stolen. It was released as two separate discs. I'm afraid that I can't remember the orchestra that performed it. Two pieces that I like very much by Stravinsky that are not terribly high profile are the suite version of "L' Histoire Du Soldat" and his "Three Pieces for Clarinet Solo". I'm not really sure I can recommend a recording of these. Mine were stolen years ago and I haven't gotten around to getting them again. I'm enlisted in the Army and every once in awhile I have to begin the morning with "The Soldier's March" played loudly enough to irritate my barracks mates. The music evokes the circus in a way that really relates to my experiences and keeps me outside and above this whole thing. The three clarinet pieces are historically interesting in that they were written after Stravinsky's exposure to American Jazz. ---------- > From: KruciFly@aol.com > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: John Coltrane etc. > Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 7:11 PM > > please someone direct me to the best works of: > John Coltrane > Ornette Coleman > > i have heard random works of both which i liked, but i need a base point. > also: > Ives > Partch > Varese > Stravinsky > Lee Konitz > Carl Stalling > Ohta Hiromi > Ennio Morricone > > As of right now i'm just picking up names as i hear them.... > Being of the age 16 and living in the pit of TN i do, info about many of > these artists is hard to find. > Thanks be to anyone who can offer help. > > Ben ........................Krucifly > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <vuilleumier@micro.biol.ethz.ch> Subject: Re: Gainsbourg Date: 15 Jun 1999 08:48:28 +0200 The problem with Gainsbourg stuff is not availability but WHICH compilation to chose if you don't go for the originals. I think the one you refer to is a digest of the recent 10? CD series, itself a compilation. But this being the Zorn list (remember: 32'000 LPs to beat, not counting CDs), I would recommend a trip to France and buying all the hundreds of original and compilation LPs of him you can find. Seriously, I think you will find gems on ANY Gainsbourg sampler. So if it's your first go at this material, I guess the 3 CD set is a good start in recent, up-to-the-legend packaging. Stephane -----Original Message----- :Can anyone recommend the 3-CD set _De Gainsbourg A Gainsbarre _ that :Polygram France relased not too long ago? : :Paul - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: Gainsbourg Date: 15 Jun 1999 09:11:05 +0200 (MEST) > Hello, > > Can anyone recommend the 3-CD set _De Gainsbourg A Gainsbarre _ that > Polygram France relased not too long ago? > yepp. it`s a great overview on the work of gainsbourg. i love it BJOERN www.tuebingen.net/eichstaedt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: Gainsbourg Date: 15 Jun 1999 09:17:26 +0200 (MEST) > But this being the Zorn list (remember: 32'000 LPs to beat, not counting > CDs), I would recommend a trip to France and buying all the hundreds > of original and compilation LPs of him you can find. a friend of mine who runs a second hand store did so and came back empty handed. whatever you find of gainsbourg, esspecially the originals is WAY TOO expensive for the ordinary guy bjoern - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "johnrust" <johnrust@blinx.de> Subject: questions ..... and Kletka Red Berlin gig Date: 15 Jun 1999 10:49:43 +0200 Hi everyone, that's the first time I'm writin' after a month of readin' (lack of courage I guess).... There's a a question I've got which I think is not that stupid for a beginner like me - where can I find the mp3 samples of Zorn or Zorn-likes on the web (if any)?.. Here in Berlin on Sunday there was a great gig of Kletka Red featuring Leonid Soybelman from Ne Zhdali, Andy Moor from the Ex and an incredible rhythm section of Tony Buck and Joe Williamson - they had once their Hijacking CD on Tzadik. Wish you were here!.. The european prices for Tom Waits live are just as expensive as they are in States... Really sad, I won't be able to affor 160 DM for seeing him, also I was dreamin' about it since I was a kid livin' in the USSR .... Something else: I've got an absolutely new untouched version of Yankees CD (featurin' Zorn, D.Bailey and G. Lewis) for trade. Is anyone interested? J. Rust - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Josephine Yeatman or Jim Glaspole" <drjim@ozemail.com.au> Subject: Zorn's Record Collection Date: 15 Jun 1999 20:20:41 +1000 Hey, I'll bet Zorn's record collection is 98% shite from obsequious morons in bands (Phlegm) or run labels (c'est moi) who send him cartloads of their own worthless products every day. A CD is a CD and if it occupies space on your "never will bother" shelf it still counts. 2% of 32000 still means 640 good titles, an average collection I'd say... Jim N.P. "Hello Pingu" vid - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "johnrust" <johnrust@blinx.de> Subject: Re:Gainsbourg Date: 15 Jun 1999 12:18:20 +0200 This compilation is OK, the lyrics are also there, so just in case you can read French, you'll be fascinated with all those "explicit lyrics" :). I would also recommend the Intoxicated Man - the Songs Of SG sung in English by Mick Harvey, one of the co-founders of the Birthday Party and the most important person in Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds (well, after Mr. Cave himself.. :) ) . He claims that although SG was great, some of his arrangements suck - and so Mick changes them .... completely! (e.g. Lemon Incest). The second album of Gainsbourg's songs by Harvey (Pink Elefants) does not sound that good to me, but there are still some unforgettable moments there - Cave and Anita Lane doin' Je T'aime, for example. But what is true - Serge's CD's are sooooooo expensive!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: Zorn's Record Collection Date: 15 Jun 1999 12:39:49 +0200 (MEST) > Hey, I'll bet Zorn's record collection is 98% shite from obsequious morons > in bands (Phlegm) or run labels (c'est moi) who send him cartloads of their > own worthless products every day. A CD is a CD and if it occupies space on > your "never will bother" shelf it still counts. > 2% of 32000 still means 640 good titles, an average collection I'd say... 1st thing: as far as i understood 32000 was just the VINYL!!!! so a cd on the NEVER WILL BOTHER shelf does NOT count. 2nd: if you think of all the stuff that zorn is refering to all the time in his work he must have thousands of NOT worthless records. 3rd: why the hell do you send stuff to him that you call WORTHLESS yourself?? BJOERN www.tuebingen.net/eichstaedt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re:Gainsbourg Date: 15 Jun 1999 12:41:18 +0200 (MEST) > But what is true - Serge's CD's are sooooooo expensive!!! i was refering to the the original LPs. BJOERN www.tuebingen.net/eichstaedt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size But what You Do With It Date: 15 Jun 1999 06:44:03 EDT My only responses are...with 32,000+ LPs, I hope the floors of his apartment are re-inforced! Can you imagine how *heavy* that amount of vinyl is? To put this amount in visual terms- this is over 110 "standard" wooden record crates of vinyl... =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Gainsbourg Date: 15 Jun 1999 06:44:04 EDT In a message dated 6/14/99 9:11:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, psaudino@interaccess.com writes: << Can anyone recommend the 3-CD set _De Gainsbourg A Gainsbarre _ that Polygram France relased not too long ago? >> Just wonderin'...is this the same set that was released in the US as 3 seperate CDs on Mercury in 1997? I've got the _Comic Strip_ comp from that set, which features material from 1967-68. Good stuff. =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn's Record Collection Date: 15 Jun 1999 08:09:25 EDT 32,000 records... whats that, 3 or 4 every day for the past 30 years?!? And he has time to listen to all this when?? It just doesnt add up! If anyone's ever seen the movie "Put Blood in the Music" you get a glimpse at his record collection (which was I guess only about 15,000 back then). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Introduction Date: 15 Jun 1999 08:11:35 EDT In a message dated 6/14/99 9:08:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JonAbbey2@aol.com writes: > so anyone see any of the food court South Street Seaport What Is Jazz? shows? > what a joke that venue is. What do you want for nothing! How about that Zorn/Laswell/Frith/Lombardo set? Sounded incredible to me. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john petrie <jpetrie@mail.vt.edu> Subject: Re: John Coltrane etc. Date: 15 Jun 1999 09:48:57 -0400 Ben, of the artist i am familar with, here's my opions: >John Coltrane For a wide variety try: Soultrane, Giant Steps, Live at the Village Vanguard, Transition, and Living Space >Ornette Coleman Anything on Atlantic is the best place to start: try 'The Shape of Jazz to Come' or 'Change of the Century.' There is also a disc called 'In All Languages' that gives some acoustic and electric stuff. >Partch There are four volumes recently released on CRI, that are excellent, if not essential. The first two are my favorites. >Varese There is a decent budget disc on Nonesuch that has many of his fine chamber works (Octandre, Offandres, Integrales,...) also look for the pieces Arcana, Poeme Electronique, Ameriques... >Stravinsky Rites of Spring, Pucinella, Petrushka (all ballets) >Lee Konitz Subconsciouslee (OJC), anything with Warne Marsh on it, Zounds (Soul Note), Inside Hifi (Atlantic), Satori (Milestones). i don't think you can wrong with Lee - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size But what You Do With It Date: 15 Jun 1999 08:48:31 -0500 At 06:44 AM 6/15/99 EDT, you wrote: >My only responses are...with 32,000+ LPs, I hope the floors of his apartment >are re-inforced! Can you imagine how *heavy* that amount of vinyl is? To >put this amount in visual terms- this is over 110 "standard" wooden record >crates of vinyl... > I was at a party once at the house of a musician who collected vinyl albums. Literally every wall in his house was taken up by shelves full of vinyl - floor to ceiling. That in itself was amazing enough, but when you looked at the content of the collection, it was almost entirely music from Broadway and off-Broadway productions (musicals). Not my personal choice for content, but to each his own. So I guess my point is that if this unknown musician from a small town in North Dakota can amass a collection which appeared to overtake Zorn's, then someone who has lived in New York and Japan most of his life (where the availability is much greater) could probably do it as well. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: John Coltrane etc. Date: 15 Jun 1999 14:37:40 -0400 On Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 10:11:59PM -0400, KruciFly@aol.com wrote: > please someone direct me to the best works of: > John Coltrane > Ornette Coleman There are probably as many ways into Ornette's music as there are albums. I got into his work via the track "Beauty is a Rare Thing" on...uh... "This is our Music"(I think). Actually, if you can, grab the boxed set of the same name. You can't go wrong. My other faves of his are "Of Human Feelings" (unfortunately only on an out-of-print import, I believe), "Dancing in Your Head" (also out of print), and his duet album with Charlie Haden, "Soapsuds Soapsuds". Actually, if you can't get ahold of one of those two out of print albums, get "Body Meta" for another good example of his electric work. I will now proceed to be told that i have ears of tin and no taste :-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Zachary J. Griffin" <zgriffin@iconn.net> Subject: Re: Introduction Date: 15 Jun 1999 11:27:57 -0400 IOUaLive1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/14/99 9:08:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > JonAbbey2@aol.com writes: > > > so anyone see any of the food court South Street Seaport What Is Jazz? > shows? > > what a joke that venue is. > > What do you want for nothing! > > How about that Zorn/Laswell/Frith/Lombardo set? Sounded incredible to me. > > - That show was my first time at the South Street Seaport Atrium. I had no idea it was a shopping mall. I have to admit that once I realized where I was, I was a bit worried about having a jazz festival with a performer who is known for being a stickler for quality in a venue such as this. But I thought all the bands there that night sounded great. And the Zorn, Laswell, Frith, and Lombardo set was absolutely incredible. It was one of the most intense shows I've been to in years. I did wonder if the mall was open during the performances. If so I can only wonder what the tourists from middle america were thinking about the music that night. And what they thought of a band like...Sonic Youth on Sunday night, for example. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Introduction Date: 15 Jun 1999 11:25:32 EDT In a message dated 6/15/99 8:14:29 AM, IOUaLive1@AOL.COM writes: << > so anyone see any of the food court South Street Seaport What Is Jazz? shows? > what a joke that venue is. What do you want for nothing! >> if by nothing, you're implying that the food court shows were free, they most certainly were not. I paid $36 for two tickets to the Olivia Tremor Control/Dirty Three, and the sound for the OTC was so bad they were almost unlistenable. if it wasn't for the Dirty Three managing to overcome the putrid sound and playing a great set in their only US appearance of 1999 (Warren Ellis wished us all Happy New Year), I'd be even more irritated about the whole thing. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: John Coltrane etc. Date: 15 Jun 1999 16:06:37 -0400 Having seen other responses, I slap myself in the head and agree that if you want to get one Ornette album, "In All Languages" is probably the best starting point. On Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 02:37:40PM -0400, Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 10:11:59PM -0400, KruciFly@aol.com wrote: > > please someone direct me to the best works of: > > John Coltrane > > Ornette Coleman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Tapia <dtapia@unoco.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn's Record Collection Date: 15 Jun 1999 10:30:12 -0600 >32,000 records... whats that, 3 or 4 every day for the past 30 years?!? And >he has time to listen to all this when?? It just doesnt add up! I think what everyone is not taking into account on this thread is that when you have a serious collection of any kind, and people know about this collection, you start to have all sorts of stuff given to you. I'm not talking about promo stuff and disks by friends, I'm talking about widows and disillusioned collectors. Once, when I was just starting in college, I was playing on a dance band with a really old saxophonist/leader guy. We got to talking about collecting music on the last break and we spoke of our collections. At the end of the gig I packed up and left saying a brief goodbye. A few years later, I got a call out of the blue from him and he told me that he was ill and was worried about what would to his collection if he were to die. He talked me into comming by his house and giving a good home to some of his more prized albums. When I got there, he escorted me into a basement full of records and by the time I left I had somewhere around 40 boxes of records! I ended up with a ton of Basie, Ellington, Mingus, Kenton, etc. A few years later, a friend and I were driving through an old neighborhood and saw a pile of boxes that had a big sign saying "take me" We pulled to the curb and found a ton of orchestral and chamber music albums. Then there was the time that the old gospel pianist got a ton of Black Saint disks because someone he had played for thought that he'd enjoy them as he was a "jazz fan" He heard about five minutes of one and as he put it "As soon as I heard that saxophone screaching, I though of you." So I inherited these as well. My point is, is that if this has happens to little old me, just imagine if you are internationally known as a collector and proponent of "wierd music." Zorn probably has people shipping him old and unwanted stuff on a regular basis. I know I'll want my collection to go to someone who can appriciate it and not part it out when I'm old and grey. Maybe if Zorn has a son. . . Doug \ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re]: It's Not Just Size/the Visual Arts Date: 15 Jun 1999 12:39:03 -0500 Scott Handley opined: >No one should be made to feel afraid to ASK anything, goddamn it. Aside from the general excellence of Scott's response, I'd nominate this line to be boldfaced somewhere on the FAQ. As no one's yet responded to Scott's original query re: the visual arts scene, I'll give it a go. In a word: dismal. Much of what has passed for "serious" art (for the purposes of this discussion, I'm confining myself to painting, sculpture and photography) has been all too easily absorbed into pop culture, often willingly. So one gets the spectacle of decent painters like Hockney, Fischl, Clemente, etc. posing in fashion magazines, being feted by the blue-haired taste-makers alongside swimsuit models at champagne galas etc. I may have missed it, but I've yet to see similar "honors" accorded Cecil, Braxton or Zorn (happily). Analogies are often drawn between the avant-gardes of various forms but, more often than not, I find them misapplied. Someone like Julian Schnabel has much more in common with Madonna than Brotzmann (or Van Vliet, whose painting he's championed). A large part of this problem might be traced to a simple, mundane fact: that one can, nominally, appreciate a painting, say, in a five second glance. A rather chilling experience can be had by loitering around any major gallery or museum and watching how long the average patron spends in front of a given work. This, of course, works hand in hand with the typical contemporary artist's aim of producing a work that hits one over the head (kinda like a pop music hook, eh?) with an immediate, if shallow, impression instead of work that needs to be grappled with, looked deeply into, etc. Much so-called serious art strikes this viewer as the equivalent of a three minute pop ditty: more or less well constructed and digestable, but instantly forgettable. Enough griping; how about some recommendations? Personally, the one painter I admire without reservation is someone who I'll be mighty surprised if he's known to anyone here, William Beckman. He produces penetrating, though extremely subtle, psychological portraits (of himself and friends) and expansive landscapes. He's quite unfashionable in that his portraiture is not of the freak-show variety of Alice Neel or Bacon, or distanced a la Katz, and his landscapes are always of worked fields, evincing a deep appreciation of agriculture. In one sense, he's old-fashioned (technically, he employs an astonishing realist style, something that actually might detract from his work as far as the casual "sophisticated" observer is concerned, who can more easily focus on the formal aspects of a painting than the subject matter); he simply observes in a straightforward matter, but he pulls an enormous volume of human depth from his subjects. Closer in spirit to Holbein, Ingres or Ruisdael than any contemporary I could think of. But difficult, I'd guess, for the modern viewer to get a hold on, as he provides no easy port of entry to his subjects; one has to work. Others whose work I enjoy: Chuck Close (here, an analogy to some minimalist composers might well be drawn), Rackstraw Downes (best name of any painter this century!), Rauschenberg, Agnes Martin, Antonio Tapies (still alive, I think?), Anselm Kiefer, Bob Bechtle, Wayne Thiebaud, some Richard Estes, John Salt, some Gregory Gillespie, Lucien Freud, William Bailey, Alfred Leslie, even Hockney's recent small scale work... I don't follow photography very closely at all, but have always enjoyed the work of William Eggleston, Joel Meyerowitz and Andres Serrano, among others. Just my two cents. Like Scott, I'd certainly be curious to hear of other listers' fave visual artists. Given the range of writers discussed last year, I'm sure there'd be some intriguing choices. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: Waits tik prices [was: questions ..... and Kletka Red Berlin gig Date: 15 Jun 1999 13:42:19 -0400 johnrust wrote: > > The european prices for Tom Waits live are just as expensive as they are in > States... Really sad, I won't be able to affor 160 DM for seeing him, also > I was dreamin' about it since I was a kid livin' in the USSR .... My wife thought I was nuts when I told her that I would pay over $100 (just throwing a number out) to see Tom Waits. He's the one artist in the world that I would do that for. Easy for her to say that, as she's the one who *has* seen Waits live. --Mike NP: Waits: Get Behind the Mule (thank God my five-year-old loves this album) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: s~Z <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Waits tik prices [was: questions ..... and Kletka Red Berlin gig Date: 15 Jun 1999 10:40:18 -0700 > My wife thought I was nuts when I told her that I would pay over $100 > (just throwing a number out) to see Tom Waits. > --Mike My wife was pissed that we DID (combined cost of 2 tix was over $100) especially when she climbed high up into the balcony looking down on people in the front row who paid the same price we did. But, then he took the stage. Now she'd pay more if it was required. I'm still bathing in the experience. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Introduction Date: 15 Jun 1999 13:52:57 EDT In a message dated 6/15/99 11:28:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JonAbbey2@aol.com writes: > if by nothing, you're implying that the food court shows were free, they > most > certainly were not. I paid $36 for two tickets to the Olivia Tremor > Control/Dirty Three, and the sound for the OTC was so bad they were almost > unlistenable. if it wasn't for the Dirty Three managing to overcome the > putrid sound and playing a great set in their only US appearance of 1999 > (Warren Ellis wished us all Happy New Year), I'd be even more irritated > about > the whole thing. I guess I wasnt very clear on that... I meant that they got the room for nothing. As soon as I first heard the word "atrium", I knew it was going to be a shitty sounding room... anyways, lets hope they find another location for next year. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: Waits tik prices [was: questions ..... and Kletka Red Berlin gig Date: 15 Jun 1999 14:44:25 -0400 s~Z wrote: > > > My wife thought I was nuts when I told her that I would pay over $100 > > (just throwing a number out) to see Tom Waits. > > --Mike > > My wife was pissed that we DID (combined cost of 2 tix was over $100) > especially when she climbed high up into the balcony looking down on > people in the front row who paid the same price we did. > > But, then he took the stage. > > Now she'd pay more if it was required. > > I'm still bathing in the experience. I hate you. :-) --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer <keffer@planetc.com> Subject: record collections Date: 15 Jun 1999 15:47:25 -0400 Well, I tried to bite my tongue on this topic but the posts keep coming and it seems the most obvious point has been over-looked. When you start talking about record collections that grow by four or five discs each day, (I think the exact number was 4.7), uninterrupted for decades on end, one naturally suspects that the records are not being listened to. Does the collector spend four to five hours each day listening to new records? Does he/she spend four to five additional hours each day giving records second listens. Presumably, no. Then, the collection is one of unlistened-to discs and, as such, a waste, from which no one, not the collector and not anyone else, derives any pleasure. If there is a sin in buying records, surely it is this: depriving someone else of the opportunity of listening to some rare, delicacy of a record, simply to count that disc among one's collection. The point of a collection of unlistened-to records is solely to satisfy a compulsive urge to own and to possess. It's no virtue and there is nothing to be admired in it. And to be jealous of such a collection, as someone on the list suggested, is ridiculous. It's like being jealous of someone else's weakness or addiction or deformity. As for myself, and I believe this is true of the majority of people who buy records (on this list or otherwise), I don't purchase a record unless I intend to listen to it. It seems sort of an obvious statement, but in this current conversation, it is apparently not the only reason for purchasing a record. In fact, if I buy a record, and I dislike it to such an extent that I can't listen to it twice (or god forbid listen to it once completely) then I am disappointed. It is unfathomable to me the motivation for someone to purchase a new record and then not even listen to it. David K. p.s. Saw Vandermark 5 at a pizza parlor in Knoxville, TN last Sunday night and they were very fine, Saw M. Gira's Angels of Light in Atlanta a couple days earlier and they were also a sight to behold. Both are on tour. If they come to your town, I recommend them. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Gainsbourg / Ornette Date: 15 Jun 1999 15:52:08 -0400 (EDT) > He claims that although SG was great, some of his > arrangements suck - and so Mick changes them .... completely! (e.g. Lemon > Incest). I don't know the later Gainsbourg stuff (after '70) but I think the arrangements are just about perfect on the earlier ones I've heard. Those are _Couleur Cafe_ (especially) and _Du Jazz Dans Le Ravin_, which may be part of that 3 CD set, in which case the other would be the _Comic Strip_ CD someone else mentioned. These are great CDs, but being compilations you would think they could have made them longer than 45 minutes apiece. > 1st thing: as far as i understood 32000 was just the VINYL!!!! The article said it was 25,000 vinyl and 7,000 CDs. >Ornette Coleman Just to chime in, my favorite ones, not including stuff only in the box set, are _The Shape of Jazz to Come_ and the Golden Circle albums on Blue note. The Golden Circle is a trio (sax/bass/drums) and has consistently excellent soloing by Ornette and a nice variety (uptempo major key, uptempo minor key, nursery rhyme waltz, and slow, tempoless ballad). > > How about that Zorn/Laswell/Frith/Lombardo set? Sounded incredible to me. Was this show all improvised or were they playing from written stuff? I was also wondering what type of stuff the Zorn/Medeski/Ribot group plays - covers, originals, improv ... ? WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: record collections Date: 15 Jun 1999 19:46:51 -0400 On Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 03:47:25PM -0400, David Keffer wrote: > When you start talking about record collections that grow > by four or five discs each day, (I think the exact number > was 4.7), uninterrupted for decades > on end, one naturally suspects that the records are not > being listened to. Does the collector spend > four to five hours each day listening to new records? Does > he/she spend four to five additional hours each day giving > records second listens. Presumably, no. Then, the collection > is one of unlistened-to discs and, as such, a waste, > from which no one, not the collector and not anyone else, > derives any pleasure. If there is a sin in buying records, > surely it is this: depriving someone else of the opportunity > of listening to some rare, delicacy of a record, simply to > count that disc among one's collection. Like many others here, i have a large collection -- if two rippings-off had not happened, by now I'd have some 80 feet worth of LPs, six feet of 45s, and some 2000 CDs. I figure that I get on the average one CD a day. Almost all the recordings I've gotten, I've intended to hear. Some of them, however, I've only wanted for a track or two, or for the liner notes or packaging. I keep CDs that I haven't yet completely listened to on a separate case from those that I've integrated into my collection. There are about 400 there now; those that I don't eventually get to will be purged and either swapped or sold back to used CD stores. Most of the large-scale collectors that I have known do the same. -- jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/~jzitt Latest Solo CD: Gentle Entropy http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List Next Comma Performance: June 19, 6 PM, Art-O-Matic, Washington, DC - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: Zorn's Record Collection Date: 15 Jun 1999 16:29:17 -0400 On Tue, 15 Jun 99 10:30:12 -0600, Doug Tapia <dtapia@unoco.edu> sed: > when you have a serious collection of any kind, and people know about > this collection, you start to have all sorts of stuff given to you. I'm > not talking about promo stuff and disks by friends, I'm talking about > widows and disillusioned collectors. Good point. You also have to realize that people in the music biz get lots of promos from record companies and artists all the time. It's really hard to truly appreciate everything when you have such a stack of music. I have a few thousands and there's some great records that I haven't had the chance to listen to in years. I'd like to think that when I'm ready to kick, I'd want to do something noble like donating all of it to the Public Library so that everyone could enjoy the music. Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: reissues of David Van Tieghem records Date: 15 Jun 1999 14:31:52 -0700 ------- Forwarded Message Path: news.or.intel.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!dvt Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient X-Posted-Path-Was: dvt X-ELN-Date: 14 Jun 1999 00:15:39 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Sun Jun 13 17:35:03 1999 Organization: Boomer Music X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 15 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: dvt@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ip125.an11-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net Message-ID: <dvt-ya02408000R1306992017370001@news.earthlink.net> Hi, For those interested, re-releases of my 2nd and 3rd CDs, "Safety In Numbers" and "Strange Cargo" are now available through MP3.com at http://www.mp3.com/artists/17/david_van_tieghem.html I also expect to have my first album, "These Things Happen," available there as well within a week. Thanks for listening! David Van Tieghem Composer/Percussionist/Performer/Sound Designer Original Music for Film, Theater, Dance & Multimedia dvt@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~dvt ------- End of Forwarded Message - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeni Dahmus <jdah@loc.gov> Subject: Boredoms review Date: 15 Jun 1999 18:19:48 -0400 (EDT) A Boredoms concert review is in today's Washington Post (www.washingtonpost.com). Jeni - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: record collections Date: 15 Jun 1999 18:34:09 EDT In a message dated 6/15/99 4:06:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jzitt@metatronpress.com writes: << Almost all the recordings I've gotten, I've intended to hear. Some of them, however, I've only wanted for a track or two, or for the liner notes or packaging. I keep CDs that I haven't yet completely listened to on a separate case from those that I've integrated into my collection. There are about 400 there now; those that I don't eventually get to will be purged and either swapped or sold back to used CD stores. Most of the large-scale collectors that I have known do the same. >> I can't even claim to do this. The only CDs/LPs I ever get rid of are those I don't like. I've quit calling myself a collector and have begun calling myself an archivist (though my wife looks at my hobby as something of an obsessive/compulsive disorder...I can live with that...) =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Dead weight - was record collections Date: 15 Jun 1999 18:56:39 EDT In a message dated 6/15/99 3:49:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, keffer@planetc.com writes: << The point of a collection of unlistened-to records is solely to satisfy a compulsive urge to own and to possess. >> Anyone care to indulge a thread about records/discs they own that get played the least? Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: collections Date: 15 Jun 1999 19:04:53 -0400 Umberto Eco had some kind of wiseguy answer to people who ask if he's read all the books he has but of course I've forgotten it since it wasn't that funny. His point, however, was that these books are his tools and that nobody would ask a mechanic if he uses all those various sockets or wrenches. Use the word "library" instead of "collection" and see if people catch the difference in intention. (Personally I prefer "my stuff.") LT Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 World Cinema Review http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4/wcr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: $4.95, too good to be true?? Date: 15 Jun 1999 19:26:23 -0400 FWIW, I placed my order for 10 CD's on the 3rd of june and heard nothing til today when I received the following; To our loyal customer: Thank you for your recent order of CDs from Onlinestores at ShopNow.com -- we're happy to offer you great prices on thousands of titles. Our team has been overwhelmed by the response to this offer and currently has a number of CDs on backorder from the distributor resulting in you either not receiving your order or receiving a partial order. We're working closely with the distributor to ensure that your order is fulfilled as soon as possible. We apologize for the delay, and wanted you to know that your business and patience is appreciated. Oh well......... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ajda snyder <freequeen@hotmail.com> Subject: Waits 'n Stuff Date: 15 Jun 1999 18:06:11 PDT Yo! I've been on this list for about a month and enjoy it's frequent silliness and the opportunity to gain further insight into the avant- garde. As far as the record collection goes, I thought I had a decent amount of CD's (I'm 22, so my vinyl collection sucks)but now I see that I'm a lightweight compared to the likes of Zorn and some of you... I had the good fortune to see Tom Waits at SXSW in Austin about 3 months ago, completely free of charge because the people organizing the festival gave away about 200 tickets to people who bought wristbands. It was at the Paramount theatre in downtown Austin. The show started close to midnight, and Waits performed for two hours straight, including the encore. It is a lavish space, and the evening was spectacular. I really like the way he moves around when he sings - it reminds me of a skeleton dancing around. He's truly quirky... His show totally redeemed the entire festival, which is sadly declining in quality in a major way. As far as Zorn's Avant involvement, does anyone know whay happened to the band Alva (from Tampa,FL)? Their first album was pretty entertaining--- Turkish Queen _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: s~Z <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Waits 'n Stuff Date: 15 Jun 1999 18:33:26 -0700 > I really like the way he > moves around when he sings - it reminds me of a skeleton dancing around. > He's truly quirky... > Turkish Queen and the way he SINGS when he moves around....I've seen him twice before, and was still amazed at what he does with his voice.....much more expressive than on recordings....much more extreme.....and the dirt spread all over the platform he stands and stomps on.....for a while i thought people were smoking.....it was a cloud of dust into which he occasionally tossed handfuls of tinfoil confetti.....that visual image alone captures the duplicity (multi-plicity) that is Tom Waits.....scruffy lounge act performed to high prices in luxurious halls.....get thee behind me mule..... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "toddlike" <toddlike@2xtreme.net> Subject: Re: Dead weight - was record collections Date: 15 Jun 1999 18:41:17 -0700 > >Anyone care to indulge a thread about records/discs they own that get played >the least? > >Dale. > Why not? Hermann Nitch's "Island" I have only ever listened to all the way through once (thought it is 4CD's long, contrast this with Zorn's "Parachute Years" 8CD set which I have listened to many times...) it contains more use of a whistle (the track and field type) than should be allowed in any one recording. It's probably the most expensive recording I don't listen to but won't sell. Stockhausen's "Micheal's Reise" I have only ever given one spin as well; I don't know why I keep the thing, I disliked it so strongly on the first listen I have never gone back to it. >- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David J. Keffer" <keffer@planetc.com> Subject: dialectical materialism vs record collections Date: 15 Jun 1999 22:30:21 -0400 >From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> >Subject: collections > >Umberto Eco had some kind of wiseguy answer to people who ask if he's read >all the books he has but of course I've forgotten it since it wasn't that >funny. His point, however, was that these books are his tools and that >nobody would ask a mechanic if he uses all those various sockets or >wrenches. Use the word "library" instead of "collection" and see if people >catch the difference in intention. (Personally I prefer "my stuff.") I think these two comparisons between record collections and libraries or tools are flawed arguments made in an effort to justify compulsive materialism. An attempt is made to transfer the value of libraries or tools to record collections, but the transfer is erroneous. Clearly a personal collection is not a library. If we look up the definition of the word library, we find that an intrinsic element of a library is the fact that material can be accessed or borrowed by some body of people. The public-service purpose of a library is lacking in a personal collection of books or music. Just as clearly, the tools of a mechanic are not a "collection"; tools are not a luxury item, the way a record collection most certainly is. The comparison would be legitimate if the record collector relied upon the listening of any element of his/her collection to maintain their livelihood, which I doubt anyone on this list would claim. Now for Eco, his books may be his tools. Very well. See the paragraph above on tools. But they are useless tools unless read. I maintain my original position that the acquisition of 4 or 5 cds per day for years and years necessarily results in an unlistenable amount of music, which is useless. My advice is to abandon all pretense of disguising the motivation for a record collection and embrace it for what it is: an unquestioning susceptibility to the brainwashing inherent in having been raised in a society of consumers for the dual purposes of comsumption and propagation of future generations of consumers. Yes! How about that for an alternative perspective to record collecting! :) David "Drone of a Materialistic Society" K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: Dead weight - was record collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 03:00:24 -0400 On Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 06:41:17PM -0700, toddlike wrote: > Stockhausen's "Micheal's Reise" I have only ever given one spin as well; I > don't know why I keep the thing, I disliked it so strongly on the first > listen I have never gone back to it. I'm pretty much the same way with Tony Conrad's "Slapping Pythagoras". I poke at the boxed set on occasion, mostly for the CD-ROM material, but the single disc just drives me away, from the illegible packaging on in. -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/~jzitt | | Latest Solo CD: Gentle Entropy http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | | Next Comma Performance: June 19, 6 PM, Art-O-Matic, Washington, DC | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: dialectical materialism vs record collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 03:32:26 -0400 On Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 10:30:21PM -0400, David J. Keffer wrote: > Clearly a personal collection is not a library. If we look up the definition > of the word library, we find that an intrinsic element of a library is the > fact that material can be accessed or borrowed by some body of people. > The public-service purpose of a library is lacking in a personal collection > of books or music. That is, of course, a single highly constricted use of the term. You might expand your vocabulary by looking up others. Webster's 1913 is especially illuminating in its choice of examples for its very first listing " as, a private library; a public library". The aspect of your argument that suggests that by leaving a record in a record store it is somehow more beneficial to the public is also shaky. It supposes (by some act of telepathy, I suppose) a more noble intent on the part of whoever sees it next. I, for one, have no way of seeing into the mind of people not yet in the room. How would you do that? > Just as clearly, the tools of a mechanic are not a "collection"; tools > are not a luxury item, the way a record collection most certainly is. > The comparison would be legitimate if the record collector relied > upon the listening of any element of his/her collection to maintain > their livelihood, which I doubt anyone on this list would claim. The many composers, DJs, critics, etc on the list can easily and truthfully claim that. And by livelihood do you mean strictly financial gain? (Such a statement might reflect a pitiable state of mind on the part of its writer.) > Now for Eco, his books may be his tools. Very well. See the paragraph > above on tools. But they are useless tools unless read. I maintain my > original position that the acquisition of 4 or 5 cds per day for years > and years necessarily results in an unlistenable amount of music, which > is useless. A few years back I pulled out of my collection the recordings to which I had never referred in the previous two years, and it came to less than 5% of the whole. And most of those I had gotten with the intent of repeated listening and reference, > My advice is to abandon all pretense of disguising the motivation for > a record collection and embrace it for what it is: an unquestioning > susceptibility to the brainwashing inherent in having been raised in a > society of consumers for the dual purposes of comsumption and > propagation of future generations of consumers. (The ghost of Cornelius Cardew is setting that paragraph for mixed chorus even as we speak.) (And if I want to revel in conspicuous consumption, I'll check out La Boheme.) My advice is to abandon tunnel visioned tirades and go listen to some music. -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/~jzitt | | Latest Solo CD: Gentle Entropy http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | | Next Comma Performance: June 19, 6 PM, Art-O-Matic, Washington, DC | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: s~Z <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: dialectical materialism vs record collections Date: 15 Jun 1999 21:22:38 -0700 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. When this happens, use the kitchen, or the apartment overhead if necessary. (Malachi 3:10) So a minimum of one tenth of one's gross income should be spent on supporting musicians. And if you give more, well that is all the more to God's glory. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: dialectical materialism vs record collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 00:45:44 EDT <<> The comparison would be legitimate if the record collector relied > upon the listening of any element of his/her collection to maintain > their livelihood, which I doubt anyone on this list would claim. >> I'm a claimer. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" <f.martinelli@comune.pisa.it> Subject: Re: dialectical materialism vs record collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 09:05:10 +0200 > Clearly a personal collection is not a library. If we look up the definition > of the word library, we find that an intrinsic element of a library is the > fact that material can be accessed or borrowed by some body of people. > The public-service purpose of a library is lacking in a personal collection > of books or music. > first, i admit that i collect records for the pleasure of the compulsive materialist anal retenitve whatever you want. second, your argument is rough and historically flawed: libraries WERE personal collection: of kings or intellectuals. That is how we are able to read Platon's Timaeus. Closer in time. all the 78 collectors, anal retentive materialists etc, gave a great gift to all of us saving precious music that now we can enjoy because of that.... when blues or gospel records were not saved by any library. They showed each other their personal copies of Robert Johnson's records? so what? an innocent pastime that let us hear today his recorded works! And this goes for people who taped concerts or took pictures of them..... Many private collection gets donated to libraries; other are bought by institution. This is how the major jazz archives in the world begun. Go to Hogan's Jazz Archive and have a look at Russell's collection... third, i write about msuic. i often buy records because i know the artist or for any other reason, and think that they will come useful in time. If I see a record with, say, Henry Grimes, I buy it and maybe in 10 years not listen to it, but a commission comes and i take it off the shelf and listen to it when needed.... fourth I have collections of specific artists. I collect data, compare recordings, just enjoy the music, but it has to be as complete as possible to be useful. i have to keep records by Chick Corea because of Braxton, by Charlie Watts or Scott Walker because of Evan Parker, of Artie Shaw because of Dodo Marmarosa. This is one of the tool-like uses. fifth, my collection (books, cassettes, vinyl, cds....) has been already used by four or five undergraduates in jazz courses that needed material about european improvisation, free jazz, jewish musics - do you know that people today are able to go in a shop and buy masada (which I dearly love) and not Don Cherry's Blue Notes? my point it: i do it because i like it, as everybody does, but not only i dont do any harm, i'm sure i'm rendering a service to the community of music lovers at large, because of the stuff i keep and of the things i do with it. back to lurking mode.... Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "johnrust" <johnrust@blinx.de> Subject: Kletka Red Date: 16 Jun 1999 10:07:49 +0200 No, I haven't recorded the concert, but I've got a lot of stuff by Leonid Soybel'man and his Estonian band Ne Zhdali (they were on RecRec) and his solo album Juliki which I consider extremely interesting. More than that, I am also a Russian/Jewish musician in exile (= in Berlin), so we are connected in some way, and after tryin' to reach each other per E-mail unsuccessfully we finally met on the weekend and I hope to meet Leo in next weeks - if he won't go to Estonia to do smth with Ne Zhdali - and get some other stuff from him. By the way, how did you like the Hijacking on Tzadik?.. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David J. Keffer" <keffer@planetc.com> Subject: Re: dialectical materialism vs record collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 09:06:14 -0400 At 03:32 AM 6/16/99 -0400, jzitt@metatronpress.com wrote: >On Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 10:30:21PM -0400, David J. Keffer wrote: > >> Clearly a personal collection is not a library. If we look up the definition >> of the word library, we find that an intrinsic element of a library is the >> fact that material can be accessed or borrowed by some body of people. >> The public-service purpose of a library is lacking in a personal collection >> of books or music. > >That is, of course, a single highly constricted use of the term. >You might expand your vocabulary by looking up others. Webster's 1913 is >especially illuminating in its choice of examples for its very >first listing " as, a private library; a public library". However highly constricted you may think my use of the word library is, it is generally accepted meaning. Don't you think that it is odd for you to look back to 1913 to find some reference which might put your position in a better light. From my point of view, you are reaching where ever you can to justify an untenable position. Furthermore, once you begin to use personal attacks against the writer on the opposite side of the argument, namely myself, by criticizing my vocabulary, your arguments lose merit. You are no longer relying upon the strength of reason. Instead, you have resorted to mud-slinging, which, among many other things, is not a virtue and only serves to undermine your overall position. I would like to point out, although I feel it is redundant, that my original arguments were not directed as a personal attack toward anyone. They were posed as a philosophical argument. You may also note that at the end of my post, I include myself as a record collector, although one who listens to every record he gets.) I do not exempt myself from my comments. >The aspect of your argument that suggests that by leaving a record >in a record store it is somehow more beneficial to the public is >also shaky. It supposes (by some act of telepathy, I suppose) a >more noble intent on the part of whoever sees it next. I, for one, >have no way of seeing into the mind of people not yet in the >room. How would you do that? I see. So what you are saying is that since the next person who enters the record store is going to stash the record away unlistened-to into a locked, private collection, you should do it first. Your telepathy is no different than mine; yours is just more pessimistic. >> Just as clearly, the tools of a mechanic are not a "collection"; tools >> are not a luxury item, the way a record collection most certainly is. >> The comparison would be legitimate if the record collector relied >> upon the listening of any element of his/her collection to maintain >> their livelihood, which I doubt anyone on this list would claim. > >The many composers, DJs, critics, etc on the list can easily and >truthfully claim that. And by livelihood do you mean strictly >financial gain? (Such a statement might reflect a pitiable state >of mind on the part of its writer.) Fair enough, composers, DJs, critics can claim records as tools. I already agreed to precisely the same thing about Eco. But you have flown off the handle and missed the point. The point was that, if the records are not listened to, they are wasted. And, I do mean livelihood as financial subsistence. Read the paragraph again. I am talking about the difference between a mechanic's tools and a private record collection. Substitute the words "financial subsistence" in for livelihood and see if the sentence makes any more sense to you. The point of my post was this guy was trying to make more noble record collecting by comparing it to other things, like tools. I was simply pointing out the flaw in the comparison. The vast majority of record collectors do not rely on their record collection for financial subsistence, especially since a record collection is the product of discretionary income, which rules out the possibility that the collector is living on a subsistence level anyway. Again, your suggestion of a pitiable state of mind on my part does not further the strength of your argument. You again resort to character attacks. Maybe you have mud-slinging on the mind because you have been living in Washington D.C. too long. Yes! Personal attack of my own! Ding ding ding! Points for me! You see? My personal attack has failed to convince you to any greater extent that my point of view on the argument is legitimate. >> My advice is to abandon all pretense of disguising the motivation for >> a record collection and embrace it for what it is: an unquestioning >> susceptibility to the brainwashing inherent in having been raised in a >> society of consumers for the dual purposes of comsumption and >> propagation of future generations of consumers. > >My advice is to abandon tunnel visioned tirades and go listen to >some music. But tunnel-visioned tirades are fun. I don't want to listen to music all the time, like these collectors who must slavishly listen to 4 to 5 hours of music every day of their lives. I like to get some variety: a little music on Monday and a little tunnel-visioned tirade on Tuesday. David K. p.s. "Francesco Martinelli" wrote >first, i admit that i collect records for the pleasure of the compulsive >materialist anal retenitve whatever you want. More power to you. To thine own self be true. >second, your argument is rough and historically flawed: My argument is rough because I am not making it for a Ph.D. thesis, I am making it for the freaking Zorn list. My definition of the word library is historically flawed because I am not using it in a historical sense. I am using it in today's vernacular, as people typically do. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: dialectical materialism vs record collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 09:48:18 -0400 On Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:30:21 -0400, "David J. Keffer" <keffer@planetc.com> did proclaim: > My advice is to abandon all pretense of disguising the motivation for > a record collection and embrace it for what it is: an unquestioning > susceptibility to the brainwashing inherent in having been raised in a > society of consumers for the dual purposes of comsumption and > propagation of future generations of consumers. > Whoa dude, that's heavy... Opens up a nice ol' can o' worms about why the hell we like music. Don't think that Charlie Manson was a Beatles fan just 'cause he was a consumer. Some friends of mine buy Barry White records and they're more interested in booty than any kinda consumer fetish. The ATF blasted Tibetian chants at David Koresh and the Branch Davidians not 'cause they wanted to help the local economy. Victor Jara, Woody Guthrie and Thomas Mapfumo did a little more for their fans than getting them to spend cash- inspired quite a few of them to take up alms and arms. And so it goes... J -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: $4.95, too good to be true?? Date: 16 Jun 1999 14:02:12 GMT I actually gave them a call; they said 4-6 _WEEKS_! Aaaaghh! I suppose that's the catch for a crazy deal. ---s >FWIW, I placed my order for 10 CD's on the 3rd of june and heard >nothing til today when I received the following; > > > >To our loyal customer: > ...We apologize for the delay, and wanted you to know that >your >business and patience is appreciated. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Saidel <saidel@usl.edu> Subject: Re: collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 09:05:33 -0500 Lang Thompson wrote: > > Umberto Eco had some kind of wiseguy answer to people who ask if he's read > all the books he has but of course I've forgotten it since it wasn't that > funny. His point, however, was that these books are his tools and that > nobody would ask a mechanic if he uses all those various sockets or > wrenches. Use the word "library" instead of "collection" and see if people > catch the difference in intention. (Personally I prefer "my stuff.") > I don't remember the exact quote either, but it was more serious than funny, and less of a tools remark than an "I love books" remark. Something like: "It's the books that you haven't read, that are filled with the potential of future reading, that are worth gathering about you." I'm all for it. - eric - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: dialectical materialism vs record collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 10:12:39 -0400 David J. Keffer wrote: > > However highly constricted you may think my use of the word library is, > it is generally accepted meaning. Not on this list apparently. Don't you think that it is odd > for you to look back to 1913 to find some reference which might put > your position in a better light. From my point of view, you are reaching > where ever you can to justify an untenable position. What is untenable about Joseph's position? I have a Newbury House Dictionary of American English, intended primarily for reference by people learning English as a second language. Published in 1996, the definition of library reads: 1 a collection of books and other reference materials (ex. The couple has a library of novels and reference books in their house.) 2 a building that houses books and other reference materials. (ex. Public libraries are found all over the USA.) Note that the first definition does not imply that public access is inherent to the meaning of the word. The example in the second definition specifies a type of library, "public," which by clear implication presupposes the notion of a private library. Your move. > Furthermore, once you begin to use personal attacks against the writer > on the opposite side of the argument, namely myself, by criticizing my > vocabulary, your arguments lose merit. You are no longer relying > upon the strength of reason. Instead, you have resorted to mud-slinging, > which, among many other things, is not a virtue and only serves > to undermine your overall position. Is this not also an ad hominem attack? Stick to the argument please. The basis of his argument is not a personal attack. Regard the personal attack as an addendum. > > > I see. So what you are saying is that since the next person who > enters the record store is going to stash the record away unlistened-to into > a locked, private collection, you should do it first. Your telepathy > is no different than mine; yours is just more pessimistic. Mr. Zitt implied nothing of the sort. He only said that you can't know how the next potential buyer will use the recording he might purchase. Besides which, by buying a recording (and now this is my argument), I am depriving nobody of anything. If someone else comes in the store and wants to buy it, and it isn't in the rack, then he can order it from the store, who will be only too happy to order him a copy. And the artist and the record company benefit. Oh, and since when have we been talking about "locked" collections? The people that I know who are serious record collectors are very happy to lend their recordings out to trusted friends. > Fair enough, composers, DJs, critics can claim records as tools. > I already agreed to precisely the same thing about Eco. > But you have flown off the handle and missed the point. The point > was that, if the records are not listened to, they are wasted. > > And, I do mean livelihood as financial subsistence. Read the > paragraph again. I am talking about the difference between > a mechanic's tools and a private record collection. Substitute > the words "financial subsistence" in for livelihood and see > if the sentence makes any more sense to you. This, sir, is a very restricted and pessimistic view of livelihood. > > The point of my post was this guy was trying to make more noble > record collecting by comparing it to other things, like tools. > I was simply pointing out the flaw in the comparison. I make some of my livelihood by writing about music. I also do some unpaid radio broadcasting. My recordings and books are used as tools, even if, in some cases, I have not listened to an item for some time. They are there to be used if needed. They are tools, in a sense, and it makes not a whit of difference that they are not used to maintain me and mine at a subsistence level. That may change in the future, should I decide to give up my regular line of work and try my handing at full-time journalism. Then I would surely learn about living at a subsistence level. > The > vast majority of record collectors do not rely on their record > collection for financial subsistence, especially since a record > collection is the product of discretionary income, which rules > out the possibility that the collector is living on a subsistence > level anyway. > And so? > >> My advice is to abandon all pretense of disguising the motivation for > >> a record collection and embrace it for what it is: an unquestioning > >> susceptibility to the brainwashing inherent in having been raised in a > >> society of consumers for the dual purposes of comsumption and > >> propagation of future generations of consumers. Sort of takes the fun out of it, doesn't it? > "Francesco Martinelli" wrote > > >second, your argument is rough and historically flawed: > > My argument is rough because I am not making it for a Ph.D. thesis, > I am making it for the freaking Zorn list. Lame excuse. > My definition of > the word library is historically flawed because I am not using > it in a historical sense. I am using it in today's vernacular, > as people typically do. Well, it is an impoverished use of the term. --Mike > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Saidel <saidel@usl.edu> Subject: Re: dialectical materialism vs record collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 09:18:49 -0500 Jeez, you sure are harsh. A bit off the mark too, it seems to me. "David J. Keffer" wrote: > > >From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> > >Subject: collections > > > >Umberto Eco had some kind of wiseguy answer to people who ask if he's read > >all the books he has but of course I've forgotten it since it wasn't that > >funny. His point, however, was that these books are his tools and that > >nobody would ask a mechanic if he uses all those various sockets or > >wrenches. Use the word "library" instead of "collection" and see if people > >catch the difference in intention. (Personally I prefer "my stuff.") > > I think these two comparisons between record collections and libraries or > tools > are flawed arguments made in an effort to justify compulsive materialism. > An attempt is made to transfer the value of libraries or tools to > record collections, but the transfer is erroneous. > > Clearly a personal collection is not a library. If we look up the definition > of the word library, we find that an intrinsic element of a library is the > fact that material can be accessed or borrowed by some body of people. > The public-service purpose of a library is lacking in a personal collection > of books or music. Well, this is one definition of a library. Another is a collection - as it is typically used to refer to large private and public collections of books. It seems a perfect fit to use it to refer to collections of music as well, public or private. > > Just as clearly, the tools of a mechanic are not a "collection"; tools > are not a luxury item, the way a record collection most certainly is. > The comparison would be legitimate if the record collector relied > upon the listening of any element of his/her collection to maintain > their livelihood, which I doubt anyone on this list would claim. This really depends on what you mean by livelihood. If you mean making money, then presumably it is not true that most of us make money from our collection, and even those of us who do do not support ourselves through the use of our collection. However, Zorn - remember, he's the guy who supposedly buys 4-5 discs a day, and whose collection is so big some people are in a dither - does make his living from his collection in a very concrete way. If you don't think so, you need to go back and listen to the man's music. And I would suggest that this definition of livelihood is much too narrow: try instead the need that most of us have for our collections, to maintain our living - without music most of us would find life much paler. That's what my collection does for me, it allows me to listen to and have access to good music. > > Now for Eco, his books may be his tools. Very well. See the paragraph > above on tools. But they are useless tools unless read. I maintain my > original position that the acquisition of 4 or 5 cds per day for years > and years necessarily results in an unlistenable amount of music, which > is useless. No, they are not useless tools unless read. They are useless tools unless accessable. Do you think that the tool that the mechanic has but rarely, if ever, has the opportunity to use is useless? No. It's only useless if he has need for it and it's not there. Part of it's use is in being there, ready to use. I still don't understand what you'd have us do. You speak as if there are a limited number of recordings and by buying a disc we're depriving others of the opportunity to listen to it. But (1) the only way they're going to listen to it is if they buy it - something you'd have them not do as well, and (2) the only way the music is going to exist is if we support the artists who make it ... by buying their discs! Better the world be filled with obsessive collectors - and consequently musicians who are better rewarded financially - than there be no collectors. > > My advice is to abandon all pretense of disguising the motivation for > a record collection and embrace it for what it is: an unquestioning > susceptibility to the brainwashing inherent in having been raised in a > society of consumers for the dual purposes of comsumption and > propagation of future generations of consumers. yadda yadda yadda. - eric - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> Subject: dialectics on material Date: 16 Jun 1999 14:26:48 -0400 According to Merriam-Webster (www.m-w.com): Library 1 a : a place in which literary, musical, artistic, or reference materials (as books, manuscripts, recordings, or films) are kept for use but not for sale b : a collection of such materials Useful 1 : capable of being put to use; especially : serviceable for an end or purpose 2 : of a valuable or productive kind <do something useful with your life> Collection 1 : the act or process of collecting 2 a : something collected; especially : an accumulation of objects gathered for study, comparison, or exhibition or as a hobby b : GROUP, AGGREGATE c : a set of apparel designed for sale usually in a particular season Livelihood 1 : means of support or subsistence 2 obsolete : the quality or state of being lively My own observation: I collect records and CDs as a way to be exposed to new music. They serve as a way to feed my ears, to influence (either good or bad) my compositional intentions, to soothe my baby's cries, to entertain. I always prefer live music over recorded music, but as a busy person with a 3-month old baby, recorded music is often the only way I can enjoy it. I would disagree that my collecting has anything to do with pure materialism; I save that for stuff like my techie toys. Collecting music is a very serious activity for me (and as a performer and composer, I can even use it as a tax write off). I agree with Eco here. The amassing of music opens the potential and possibilities of listening. I don't know (and will not attempt to guess) what Zorn's intentions are with such a large collection. The mechanic:tools::collector:records analogy is probably more applicable to the collector who uses the records as a proponent of her craft (e.g. composer, DJ, critic, reviewer, etc.). -- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | http://www.metatronpress.com | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: dialectical materialism vs record collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 14:26:48 -0400 On Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 09:06:14AM -0400, David J. Keffer wrote: > However highly constricted you may think my use of the word library is, > it is generally accepted meaning. Don't you think that it is odd > for you to look back to 1913 to find some reference which might put > your position in a better light. From my point of view, you are reaching > where ever you can to justify an untenable position. Error #1: Guessing about methods without evidence. As it happens, I did a multidictionary search on the Web, and that was the very first definition in the very first dictionary that came up. > I would like to point out, although I feel it is redundant, that > my original arguments were not directed as a personal attack toward anyone. > They were posed as a philosophical argument. You may also note > that at the end of my post, I include myself as a record collector, > although one who listens to every record he gets.) I do not > exempt myself from my comments. That one attacks a class of which one is a member does not remove the fact of the attack. > I see. So what you are saying is that since the next person who > enters the record store is going to stash the record away unlistened-to into > a locked, private collection, you should do it first. Your telepathy > is no different than mine; yours is just more pessimistic. Error #2: I base my point on the open realization that I know nothing of the motivations of the next person. > And, I do mean livelihood as financial subsistence. Read the > paragraph again. I am talking about the difference between > a mechanic's tools and a private record collection. Substitute > the words "financial subsistence" in for livelihood and see > if the sentence makes any more sense to you. Error #3: This is based on the subsistence that the mechanic with tools must earn subsistence from them. That argument would lead to the belief that the many people who work on cars on weekends and have day jobs in different areas have no right to own their wrenches. > I was simply pointing out the flaw in the comparison. Note that in almost all discourse an attempt to disguise a statement by restating it as "simply" an instance of a more general statement signals an attempt to obscure a critical meaning of the original statement. > Again, your suggestion of a pitiable state of mind on my part > does not further the strength of your argument. You again > resort to character attacks. Maybe you have mud-slinging on the > mind because you have been living in Washington D.C. too long. This assumes knowledge of how long I have been in DC. And my statement was not ad-hominem because it would apply to anyone who held that sad belief. > My argument is rough because I am not making it for a Ph.D. thesis, > I am making it for the freaking Zorn list. My definition of > the word library is historically flawed because I am not using > it in a historical sense. I am using it in today's vernacular, > as people typically do. Except that, as has been shown, they don't. -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/~jzitt | | Latest Solo CD: Gentle Entropy http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | | Next Comma Performance: June 19, 6 PM, Art-O-Matic, Washington, DC | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Orange <tmorange@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Dead weight - was record collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 12:18:31 -0400 (EDT) in the liner notes to metal machine music, lou reed writes (paraphrasing) that "no one has listened to this all the way through, not even me," and further that it was not meant to be. start anywhere you like he sez... i prefer to do so by taking full advantage of the strict stereo separation: listen to one side at a time, first with one channel turned down completely, then again with the other channel turned down completely, then again with both together... t. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Waits and 5-year-olds Date: 16 Jun 1999 12:54:21 EDT In a message dated 99-06-15 21:12:20 EDT, you write: >NP: Waits: Get Behind the Mule (thank God my five-year-old loves this >album) That's funny, one of my 5-year-olds thinks it is a great album, too. His favorite numbers are "big in Japan" and "Cold Water." The fact that Waits says "Cheese" in the former is a big plus, and the line in Cold Water about the old dog that seems to like him also is a real pleaser. "What's he building" is another one he likes a lot but is ONLY to be played during the day--too scary for nighttime. He also is fascinated by the black elevator going down, and of course, the eyeball kid. Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Collecting and the grave Date: 16 Jun 1999 12:54:24 EDT In a message dated 99-06-15 21:12:20 EDT, you write: >I'd like to think that when I'm ready to kick, I'd want to do something noble >like >donating all of it to the Public Library so that everyone could enjoy the >music. Sadly, Jason, unless you already hear the reaper approaching, chances are, few will want your collection by the time you kick, any more than most libraries these days are interested in collections of 78s. CDs will become more obsolete more quickly than LPs once the next technology comes along, simply because of the speed at which computer technology moves. My guess is CDs won't even carry the same cachet of nostalgia that LPs have, because CDs will be around as the dominant medium for a shorter period of time than was the LPs. All these precious things I've been--and continue--acumulating, as I've started saying to myself, will be left to my kids once I croak, and it'll be their responsibility, and hassle, to cart it all to the dumpster. Sure, they could end up being into all of this stuff and be happy to have it, but it is at least as likely that it'll be nothing more than junk to them. If they donate it to a library, wonderful, but that doesn't mean most of the collection won't be relegated to the dumpster by the library. Basically what it comes down to is, I ain't looking any further than what the collecion means to me while I'm here. OK, so I ain't too noble. As to the "I only buy what I want to listen to" argument about collecting, same with me, but my DESIRE to hear things outstrips the amount of time I have to listen. Thus, I've worked out a compulsively systematic way of using travel time to acclimate, through repeated listenings, all I buy, thus freeing my stationary listening time to guiltlessly listening to anything I want. However, my "lag time" from purchase to repeated listening 'assimilation' (call me collector Borg) is pretty long now. But there's always something more that looks intriguing, and I always buy it because I want to hear it. I can't help it if life intervenes and delays my gratification. And to come full circle with the theme of death, I have no doubt I'll croak someday with a big backlog of stuff still awaiting repeated listening. But hopefully I'll live long enough that the technology will allow that the backlog will be able to fit in my burial suit's vest pocket, since at that point I'll finally have enough free time to catch up. Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Live Primus Date: 16 Jun 1999 12:16:09 -0500 Was it here that Primus was discussed a few days ago? If not...whatever. If anyone's interested there's some live primus (whole shows) on primus' web site in mp3: http://www.primussucks.com/frames/fboot.html Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Kowalski <BKowalski@genetics.com> Subject: get on with it Date: 16 Jun 1999 13:38:46 -0400 Perhaps a separate listserv for those who'd like to continue discussing the amount of records owned and how musicians without platinum sales can afford large collections of said recordings can be taken up. The New Yorker article was fantastic and seems most on list are always looking for places to tuck away new cds and books - but I'm keeping an eye out on what folks say about the music itself. happy listening (& shelving) Bob ps: currently found priority space (on shelf & in cd changer) for Pink Martini's debut release - smashing! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeni Dahmus <jdah@loc.gov> Subject: Re: Gainsbourg / Ornette Date: 16 Jun 1999 14:09:22 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, William York wrote: > > > How about that Zorn/Laswell/Frith/Lombardo set? Sounded incredible to me. I thought so too. > Was this show all improvised or were they playing from written stuff? It was improvised for the most part. They played Iron Man at one point. :-) Jeni - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Of possible interest to DC area Zornsters: Date: 16 Jun 1999 19:10:15 -0400 WHO: The new music trio, Comma WHAT: Washington Art-O-Matic FINAL EVENT WHERE: Manhattan Laundry building 1348-1346 Florida Ave., NW Washington, D.C. WHEN: 6PM-9PM, Saturday, June 19, 1999 CONTACT: Comma: Tom Bickley, 202-546-1477, tbickley@artswire.org Art-O-Matic: Aisha Davis, 202.986.7885 The new music trio Comma, based in Washington, DC, will be performing during the closing day festivities of the Washington Art-O-Matic. They will be performing a three-hour stream of new music, including works by 20th century composers, free improvisations, sound text poetry, and selections from their CD, (voices) (Metatron Press 101). The performance begins with Matt Davis' post-ambient "Prelude for 3," features Joe Zitt's hommage to minimalism titled "Ghost Dervish Beach," and concludes with the 25-minute hypnotic soundscape "The Listening Room" by Tom Bickley with spoken text by poet Joe Zitt. For more information on Comma see http://www.artswire.org/tbickley/commapr.html -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/~jzitt | | Latest Solo CD: Gentle Entropy http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | | Next Comma Performance: June 19, 6 PM, Art-O-Matic, Washington, DC | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Slntwtchr@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Gainsbourg / Ornette Date: 16 Jun 1999 18:03:41 EDT >It was improvised for the most part. They played Iron Man at one >point. :-) that was the only part i was disppointed at. laswell did the same thing with mick harris at the painkiller show at tonic last summer... peace, dave ___________________________________________________________ bill laswell, eraldo bernocchi, mick harris and lori carson discographies at : http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 ___________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MeandMrRay@aol.com Subject: CD Sale Date: 16 Jun 1999 18:36:16 EDT Hello Everyone, For Anyone interested, my latest CD sale can be veiwed at: http://members.aol.com/meandmrray/cdsale.html Hope to hear from lots of folks. Thanks for the bandwidth! Greg. PS> sorry if this is a repeate message for some people, I've send it to all the lists I'm on, and they often overlap. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: neues kabarett, June 25&26 Date: 16 Jun 1999 18:43:13 -0500 June 25-26, if you're in New York, you can stop by Academy and pick up a few dozen used CDs that artists won't get any money for and you'll never listen to anyway but they look nice on the shelf, walk up 6th Ave. to Barnes and Noble, where you can update your dictionary collection while supporting a multimillion $ chain that puts small independently owned bookstores out of business (what? you only have one dictionary on the shelf next to your CDs? You plebe!), and then walk up to The Brecht Forum for an evening of improv music and dance. And probably still get home to curl up with the new Eco (you don't really read that stuff, do you?). (tee hee) THE BRECHT FORUM 122 West 27th Street, 10th Floor New York, NY 10001 212-242-4201 www.brechtforum.org ******************* Neues Kabarett, a new series of avant-garde jazz and adventurous music and dance, presents IT'S A VISION THING curated by Patricia Nicholson June 25 & 26 The Brecht Forum continues Neues Kabarett, its new concert series, on Friday, June 25 and Saturday, June 26 at 9 pm. IT'S A VISION THING is curated by Patricia Nicholson - dancer, choreographer and organizer of the annual Vision Festival. The schedule for both nights is: Nicholson will perform with Rob Brown on saxophone; violinist Mat Maneri will be joined by dancer Christine Coppola; Dancer Julia Wilkins will perform with Bernard Rosat on bass, and Charles Waters on reeds will be joined by the NuZion Dance Workshop. Admission is $10 per night. That's June 25 & 26 at 9 pm at The Brecht Forum, 122 West 27th Street, 10th Floor, between 6th and 7th Avenues near the 1/9, A/C, N/R, 6 and F trains. For info call 212-242-4201. ***************** Background: The Brecht Forum is a non-profit cultural and educational center for people working for fundamental change and a society that puts human needs first. Arts events include Neues Kabarett, an avant-garde jazz series; The Gashouse featuring radical music and words; Freedom Song highlighting music from worldwide national liberation struggles; and monthly art exhibits spotlighting issues of the day such as the powerful May-June Cellscape II which focuses on incarceration and police brutality. Upcoming events include dance performances, films and a three-day concert spotlighting the contributions of innovative women composers. The Brecht Forum has been raising funds to support the development of its performance space, including the purchase of a new sound system and a piano. A benefit concert in July will feature Stephanie Stone and Andrea Parkins on piano, a rare solo performance by trumpeter Roy Campbell, and guitarist Loren Mazzacane Connors with poet Steve Dalachinsky. In August, another benefit will feature guitarist Marc Ribot and drummer Christine Bard. Also that month we will also present North Carolina's Eugene Chadbourne, who will treat New Yorkers to a night of original compositions and a night of his interpretations of Phil Ochs songs. The Brecht Forum's schedule also includes classes, such as a nine-session course "The Politics of Hip Hop: From Getting Paid to Getting Free" which begins on June 16. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Dead weight - was record collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 20:32:08 -0400 At 06:56 PM 6/15/99 EDT, TagYrIt@aol.com wrote: > >Anyone care to indulge a thread about records/discs they own that get played >the least? Inevitably the oldest ones. I was really into progressive rock and space music about 15-20 years ago, and can hardly stand to listen to even what I thought at the time was good (not to mention what at the time was only mediocre). Worse, I had fond memories of a Blue Cheer album from the 60s, and when the Wire was going on about Haino in a big way, dropping Blue Cheer's name all over the place, I picked it up again to see if it was as good as I remembered (all I can say, the drugs at the time must have been stupendous!). Wire also gave a top-of-the-year to a Michael Nyman disk loaded with harpsichords and counter-tenors (I'm now much more suspicious of their January listings). These are so bad I won't even offer them up for trade, I'm saving them for a yard sculpture. Here's another thread: vinyl we dumped, then bought back on CD. My lead candidate on the plus side: Trout Mask Replica. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net> Subject: Re: Dead weight - was record collections Date: 16 Jun 1999 21:19:01 -0400 Caleb T. Deupree wrote: > Here's another thread: vinyl we dumped, then bought back on CD. My lead > candidate on the plus side: Trout Mask Replica. (Still chuckling since you made me recall 'Vincibus Eruptum' or whatever the hell that thing was called). Back around '75-'76, still in the throes of my avant-jazz fanaticism engendered a few years before, I traded in virtually every album with the remotest rock affiliations, with a few prescient exceptions (like Fripp/Eno). Most of these I had little cause to regret, including a bunch of early fusion. However, over time I ate crow and repurchased: 1) all Beefheart (well, except for that mid-70's crap) 2) all Zappa up to and including 'Burnt Weenie' (no interest after that) 3) any and all Hendrix I could find. A couple of years ago I picked up the first Crimson disc, curious as to my reaction nowadays to what, as a callow 15 year old, I though was the greatest thing I'd ever heard. Almost 30 years later, 'Schizoid Man' and the free-jazzy-ish 'Moonchild' hold up fairly well; the rest seems pretty ponderous. Haven't continued up that particular road. Almost picked up the Incredible String Band's 'Changing Horses' recently, but drew back. More stupidly, I jettisoned my minimal collection of non-minimal classical music, more an ideological pro-jazz, anti-Euro decision than actually not liking the stuff (I _said_ it was stupid). Out went Xenakis, Stockhausen, Crumb and others. I'm still recovering... Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Zachary J. Griffin" <zgriffin@iconn.net> Subject: Re: get on with it Date: 16 Jun 1999 22:38:06 -0400 Bob Kowalski wrote: > Perhaps a separate listserv for those who'd like to continue discussing the amount of records owned and how musicians without platinum sales can afford large collections of said recordings can be taken up. > Amen, brother!!!!! > > The New Yorker article was fantastic and seems most on list are always looking for places to tuck away new cds and books - but I'm keeping an eye out on what folks say about the music itself. > I finally got around to buying "New Traditions in East Asian Bar Bands". Perhaps I should log off my computer and listen to it. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: XRedbirdxx@aol.com Subject: played least Date: 17 Jun 1999 04:46:09 EDT In a message dated 6/15/99 9:12:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << Anyone care to indulge a thread about records/discs they own that get played the least? >> The Classic Guide to Strategy. And then there are the damn liner notes by Rothenberg written in thin gold ink on dark background. Excruciating, impossible to read. It's as if they don't want us to be able to discern the words, or they're just fucking with us because we're such puppies for this shit that it seems we'll drop money on absolutely anything he puts out. These thoughts ever cross anyone else's mind, or am I just being cranky??? Joseph - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <vuilleumier@micro.biol.ethz.ch> Subject: Re: played least Date: 17 Jun 1999 11:01:34 +0200 I think it's a good idea to stick to Zorn records - there are enough of them that fit the bill anyway! I'll come back when I have my list of ten. Stephane -----Original Message----- : :<< Anyone care to indulge a thread about records/discs they own that get :played : the least? >> : : :The Classic Guide to Strategy. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: dialectical materialism vs record collections Date: 17 Jun 1999 06:54:33 EDT In a message dated 6/16/99 9:29:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, keffer@planetc.com writes: << However highly constricted you may think my use of the word library is, it is generally accepted meaning. Don't you think that it is odd for you to look back to 1913 to find some reference which might put your position in a better light. From my point of view, you are reaching where ever you can to justify an untenable position. >> While i'm not trying to get involved in mudslinging or whatever...I would think that defining a term from that far back only proves that a "generally accepted" meaning has been around for a long time, and that it is a revised definition of the word that you have embraced...if that means anything to anybody, anywhere, anyhow... I dunno- maybe we can use the adjectives public or private in conjunction with "library" and REALLY start some SERIOUS mudslinging...;-) Can somebody help me with my tongue? spinning: Geezer Lake- King Frost Parade =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "johnrust" <johnrust@blinx.de> Subject: Yankees CD for trade Date: 17 Jun 1999 15:06:33 +0200 Just in case someone's overlooked this one bein' too busy discussin' other subjects - there's a chance to enlarge your collection: an untouched Yankees CD on Celluloid (1992, features Zorn, Derek Bailey and George Lewis - Made in Holland) for trade. Is anyone intrerested?.. It would be really stupid to sell this one, I would definitely regret it... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: played least Date: 17 Jun 1999 14:32:40 -0400 On Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 04:46:09AM -0400, XRedbirdxx@aol.com wrote: > The Classic Guide to Strategy. And then there are the damn liner notes by > Rothenberg written in thin gold ink on dark background. Excruciating, > impossible to read. It's as if they don't want us to be able to discern the > words, or they're just fucking with us because we're such puppies for this > shit that it seems we'll drop money on absolutely anything he puts out. The earlier Tzadik releases, while, visually speaking, abstractly beautiful, left something to be desired in terms of information design (yeah, I'm an interface junkie...). But they can't top the Tony Conrad album I've whined about earlier, with its thin green print on a red background (or was it the other way around?). It's like inverse Jiffy Pop: as little fun to read as it is to hear. -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/~jzitt | | Latest Solo CD: Gentle Entropy http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | | Next Comma Performance: June 19, 6 PM, Art-O-Matic, Washington, DC | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: dumped LPs bought CDs Date: 17 Jun 1999 11:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Because I held on to the vinyl world for such a long time that I was even able to replace as reissues LPs I initially dumped, I only have two candidates: 1)Jimmy Giufre's Free Fall (CBS) with Paul Bley and Steve Swallow. Since it came out in 1963, when I was a 14-year-old who had only been involved with jazz for about a year, I found the disc too cold, too abstract and too minimalist for my tastes. Now with many more years of listening and appreciating I can hear it as the progenitor of a whole school that stretches from Joe Maneri to Evan Parker to a clutch of other North American and European improv types. (And it comes with five additional tracks). 2)Paul Bley Barrage (ESP-Disk) with Marshall Allen, Milford Graves, Dewey Johnson, Eddie Gomez. In retrospect, I quite liked the record. But when you've 15 and need the money to see the Thelonious Monk Quartet at Place Des Arts, why not sell the Bley to your friend who bought the New York Art Quartet at the same time. (Unfortunately when you've 15, you can only also afford second balcony seats, so I only recall "seeing" the tiny blurred figures of Monk and Charlie Rouse etc. from my pearch). Barrage on CD is great, but it isn't printed in red and white as it was on the original cover. And I'm one of the few people who can never see Michael Snow's famous "Waling Woman", which is pictured on the cover, without thinking of Carla Bley, who wrote all the tunes on Barrage. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net > Here's another thread: vinyl we dumped, then bought back on CD. My lead > candidate on the plus side: Trout Mask Replica. > > -- > Caleb Deupree > cdeupree@erinet.com > > Computers are useless; they can only give you answers > -- Pablo Picasso > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JoLaMaSoul@aol.com Subject: Man's Soul - Duets in NYC this Sunday, 6/20 Date: 17 Jun 1999 11:26:55 EDT This Sunday, June 20th,1999 (7:00 pm, $7 admission) @ Saint Peters Church, 619 Lexington Ave, NYC JONATHAN LAMASTER (violin)/JOHN BLUM (piano) DUO will be appearing at: MAN'S SOUL - a collage of music, dance and spoken word currated by William Hooker Featuring thomas stanley(d.c.), jonathan lamaster (ma), john blum, sabir mateen, makiko oka, charles compo, jesse henry, lewis barnes, mark hennen, tor snyder, and william hooker... all in duets. info 212-935-2200 Pianist John Blum played a sublime set at this years (4th Annual) Vision Festival with drummer and Cecil Taylor alumnist Jacskon Krall and tuba player Joseph Daley. The notes inside the festival schedule describe him as "a pianist with a knack for making complex creative statements with physical and intellectual drive". Violinist Jonathan LaMaster also appeared at this years Vision Festival with his group The Saturnalia String Quartet accompanying free blowing multi-instrumentalist Daniel Carter. LaMaster and Blum met up one afternoon during the Festival for a searing jam session, organized by Philly reed and flute monster Elliott Levin and also including drummer Ryan Sawyer. This performance will mark their first duo outing. http://www.sublingual.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Otis Wheeler <owheeler@javanet.com> Subject: Re: played least Date: 17 Jun 1999 13:05:54 -0400 >The earlier Tzadik releases, while, visually speaking, abstractly >beautiful, left something to be desired in terms of information >design (yeah, I'm an interface junkie...). But they can't top the >Tony Conrad album I've whined about earlier, with its thin green >print on a red background (or was it the other way around?). It's >like inverse Jiffy Pop: as little fun to read as it is to hear. Are you talking about Slapping Pythagoras? My copy has thin red print on a gold background, quite easy to read, unfortunately. I'd actually prefer a copy where all that bollocks was illegible. I'll have to disagree with the Jiffy Pop analogy, by the way - I find it quite a delightful listen. 'Tis a much more interesting take on noise than Merzbow, methinks. Regards, Otis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "johnrust" <johnrust@blinx.de> Subject: Yankees details Date: 17 Jun 1999 22:48:15 +0200 John Zorn/Derek Bailey/George Lewis - Yaankees CD No. is CELD 5006,Cass No. is CELC 5006, 1992 Celluloid NY, Made in Holland, Executive Producer: John T. Matarazzo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Boredoms Date: 17 Jun 1999 23:39:31 EDT just a brief report on the "unannounced" Boredoms show at CBGB's this past Tuesday night. they now have three drummers, up from two the last time I saw them a few years back, and they were playing songs in the Super AE (push those letters together on your screen for me, please) style, long, percussion-propelled jams that many critics seem to like to label as "Krautrock-style". it sounded a lot closer to Hawkwind or the Grateful Dead to me, especially in the tone of the guitar. plus, I found it fairly unfunky, which I suppose isn't surprising when you have one bassist trying to keep up with three drummers. Eye was singing his lungs out, but I think he felt a bit constrained by the small space he had to move around in. don't get me wrong, there were parts of it that I was jumping up and down, on the verge of moshing, but not nearly as many as I expected. Douglas Wolk called their concert at the Seaport "numbing" in this week's Voice and I'd have to concur. and if you haven't heard yet, Cecil Taylor's playing some NYC shows at the end of June with his new quartet, which includes Paul Lovens. I know I'm pretty excited. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Dead weight - was record collections Date: 18 Jun 1999 04:23:50 EDT In a message dated 6/16/99 8:28:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cdeupree@erinet.com writes: << Here's another thread: vinyl we dumped, then bought back on CD. My lead candidate on the plus side: Trout Mask Replica. >> Weather Report- Black Market (I went through a non-funky phase a while back...i'm better now...) spinning: Bugskull- Distracted Snowflake Vol.2 =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: Bill Frisell discography Date: 18 Jun 1999 15:38:16 +0200 Hi Philozorners, for those of you who like the music of Bill Frisell I prepared an update of his discography, It contains new entries, but also better (I hope) frontpage, which will help you find the info you need, also the incompatibility with Netscape browser is removed. Please note that the url changed too: http://www.emd.pl I'd like to thank to all contributors (many of them from this list) for the provided information and support :-) Looking forward to your feedback Artur - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Taylor's new 4 Date: 18 Jun 1999 10:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Jon: Who else is in CT's "new quatrtet". Heard any rumors of him touring? Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ChiniJi <ChiniJi@ThePentagon.Com> Subject: Nop Music Date: 18 Jun 1999 23:12:48 +0700 Hello everybody and sorry for this X-post, I would like to tell you guy a cool web site. It's web site of Thai modern jazz musician, Nop Music. Url is http://nopmusic.hypermart.net The site featuring album info., MP3-realaudio sound clip and more ! Take a look at it. Best Regards, ChiniJi. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Taylor's new 4 Date: 18 Jun 1999 13:01:42 EDT <<Who else is in CT's "new quatrtet". Heard any rumors of him touring?>> here's the info I have on the Cecil Taylor shows: The new quartet consists of FMP all-star drummer Paul Lovens, bassist Teppo Hauta-aho and soprano saxist Harri Sjostrom. Cecil Taylor and the Desperados: "Lambent on La Luna's Spatulate" [poetry, solo piano, and quartet] According to the information I have the concerts will take place at Angel Orensanz Center (172 Norfolk Street: 1 block south of Essex Street and a half block south of Houston Street opposite Avenue A). There are three dates - Tuesday June 29th, Wednesday June 30th, and Thursday July 1st - with two sets each night at 8pm and 10pm. Tickets are $20 in advance and $23 at the door. Advance tickets are available cash only at Downtown Music Gallery (212.473.0043) and Other Music (212.477.8150). Or you can charge via Ticket Web (212.269.4TIX or www.ticketweb.com). Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@ctech.smtc.net> Subject: Steve Lacy Date: 18 Jun 1999 19:09:23 -0400 What are everyone's favorite Steve Lacy albums? I've got about a half-dozen but don't feel like I've quite hit it with him as a band-leader. So far, the best shit I've heard him do is on Mal Waldron's 'Hard Talk'... Anyway, looking for suggestions. listening to: Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 - Herb Alpert Presents (A&M). Hell yeah! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: s~Z <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Steve Lacy Date: 18 Jun 1999 16:18:09 -0700 149 - THE GLEAM: Steve Lacy Sextet 1/ Gay Paree Bop 9:00 2/ Napping (take 1) 8:57 3/ The Gleam 7:00 4/ As Usual 12:12 5/ Keepsake 10:22 6/ Napping (take 2) 9:20 Recorded at Sound Ideas Studio, NY, July 16-18, 1986 Steve Lacy: soprano; Steve Potts: alto, soprano; Irene Aebi: vocals, violin; Bobby Few: piano; Jean-Jacques Avenel: bass; Oliver Johnson: drums. 1987 - Silkheart, SHLP-102 (LP) 1987 - Silkheart, SHCD-102 (CD) Note: (6) is only available on the CD edition. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Steve Lacy Date: 18 Jun 1999 19:53:31 EDT In a message dated 6/18/99 7:09:39 PM, tpratt@ctech.smtc.net writes: << What are everyone's favorite Steve Lacy albums? I've got about a half-dozen but don't feel like I've quite hit it with him as a band-leader. >> I'm not a huge Lacy fan, but the two that I do really like are both on Hat Art, School Days and Morning Joy. both of these, I believe, are unfortunately deleted, although the June Cadence lists Morning Joy still. go Knicks! Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: benjamin elliot axelrad <beaxelra@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: Steve Lacy Date: 18 Jun 1999 20:05:11 -0500 (CDT) My favorites are _Songs_ on hatART, _Packet_ on New Albion, and _Vespers_ on Soul Note. _Songs_ is a bunch of Brion Gysin poems set to music, featuring BG on a couple of tracks. _Packet_ is much more dark and emotionally involving, I think the most beautiful disc Lacy has put out. It features Irene Aebi on vocals and Frederic Rzewski (!) on piano. _Vespers_ is a song cycle of poems by a Bulgarian woman (I can't recall her name). It's quite good and has really amazing performances by Rickey Ford and Tom Varner. If I had to pick one I'd go for _Packet_ What do you all think of _The Cry_? Ben On Fri, 18 Jun 1999 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/18/99 7:09:39 PM, tpratt@ctech.smtc.net writes: > > << What are everyone's favorite Steve Lacy albums? I've got about a > half-dozen but don't feel like I've quite hit it with him as a > band-leader. >> > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Steve Lacy Date: 18 Jun 1999 22:12:06 -0400 Speaking of which....For those willing to travel about 40 miles north of NYC, with some disposable income.....Lacy will be playing with Jacques Anenal, John Betsch, AND Roswell Rudd at the Caramoor Festival this July 31st. Also appearing will be Sphere, The Cedar Walton Trio, Andrew Hill and Shirley Horn. Caramoor is a gorgeous old estate in Northern Westchester mostly known for classical concerts. Further info at www.caramoor.com/music/jazz/index.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Santamaria <d028932c@dc.seflin.org> Subject: Whadda ya MEAN Zorn? Date: 18 Jun 1999 23:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Well hello there everyone, I've never posted on list before, and actually I haven't been reading it either. But, I do wish to ask a bit of advice from all you Zorn Fiends out there. I'am a relative newcomer to Zorn's music, a fresh face, a young suckling pig..... The sole album I posses is The Big Gundown and I am quite pleased with it; however, it does not satisfy, its a paltry beginning. I want more, I only find questions in the music, "Who is this, What is this, why? What are all these noises?" So, besides the obvious, help a chap out...... Prompt: "Where the Zorn do I Start?" Analyze this statement, providing evidence from literature, history, the arts, and personal experiance. | | | == + === | _ + ___ | | | +++++ ----- - + + . | + + . | Your Grandpa's cane, it turns into a sword Your Grandma prays to pictures that are pasted on a board -B. D. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Whadda ya MEAN Zorn? Date: 19 Jun 1999 13:38:34 +1000 > Prompt: "Where the Zorn do I Start?" Read the FAQ, Zorn's various styles are covered pretty well there. But basically pick up a major album like Naked City or Spillane, and take it from there... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: Steve Lacy Date: 18 Jun 1999 23:56:25 -0400 s~Z wrote: > > 149 - THE GLEAM: Steve Lacy Sextet > > 1/ Gay Paree Bop 9:00 > 2/ Napping (take 1) 8:57 > 3/ The Gleam 7:00 > 4/ As Usual 12:12 > 5/ Keepsake 10:22 > 6/ Napping (take 2) 9:20 > > Recorded at Sound Ideas Studio, NY, July 16-18, 1986 > > Steve Lacy: soprano; Steve Potts: alto, soprano; Irene Aebi: vocals, > violin; > Jean-Jacques Avenel: bass; Oliver Johnson: drums. > Bobby Few: piano; I interviewed William Parker today (Malachi Favors, Roscoe Mitchell, Parker, and Louis Sclavis in one day) and he mentioned Bobby Few. I'd never even heard of him, let alone heard him. Can anybody tell me anything about Few? I didn't ask Parker because it wasn't a really important point, and he kept getting interrupted by incoming calls. --Mike NP: Akosh S. Unit: Imafa (Wicked!) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Heather and Jeff" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: DAVID DUNN Date: 19 Jun 1999 08:10:36 -0400 For those of you in New York City that knew David Dunn, writer/poet/Jazz lover I hate to have to tell you that he passed away on Friday June 18th. Some of his close friends are trying to put together a memorial for him sometime next week. Dave was very close with a number of influential musicians including Charles Gayle and David Murray, just to name a couple. If you or someone you know is interested in participating in the memorial please contact me ASAP at either of these numbers: Over the weekend - (201)714-7704 - hijk@gateway.net Monday-Friday - (212)824-0321 - jefken@muze.com Thanks for your help. Jeff Kent - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: DAVID DUNN Date: 19 Jun 1999 12:42:27 -0400 On Sat, Jun 19, 1999 at 08:10:36AM -0400, Heather and Jeff wrote: > For those of you in New York City that knew David Dunn, writer/poet/Jazz > lover I hate to have to tell you that he passed away on Friday June 18th. Is this the same person as the New Mexico-based composer ("Music, Language and Environment", "Angels and Insects", etc)? -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/~jzitt | | Latest Solo CD: Gentle Entropy http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | | Next Comma Performance: June 19, 6 PM, Art-O-Matic, Washington, DC | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Heather and Jeff" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: Re: DAVID DUNN Date: 19 Jun 1999 09:09:35 -0400 >Is this the same person as the New Mexico-based composer ("Music, >Language and Environment", "Angels and Insects", etc)? No, sorry. JK - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Zachary J. Griffin" <zgriffin@iconn.net> Subject: Avant Records Website? Date: 19 Jun 1999 10:46:12 -0400 Hello, Is there a website for Avant Records? Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.A.Bueno" <jabu@sminter.com.ar> Subject: Re: Avant Records Website? Date: 19 Jun 1999 19:02:26 -0300 Don`t think so , but there`s a catalog at http://www.DTMGallery.com/ Antonio "Zachary J. Griffin" wrote: > Hello, > Is there a website for Avant Records? > > Zach > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: theorcolus <theorcolus@earthlink.net> Subject: Jef Lee Johnson & David C Gross at the Knitting Factory 6/23 Date: 19 Jun 1999 21:21:33 -0400 Just a note to let you know that Jef is out on the road and filling in for him will be Alexander Rastopchin on guitar. Hope some of you can make it! David C Gross www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/7773 The Knitting Factory presents in the "Old Office" 74 Leonard St. 212-219-3006 June 23rd 1999 8 PM & 9:30 PM Charles Burnham-violin Lance Carter-drums David C Gross-6 string fretless bass,electronics/loops Jef Lee Johnson-guitar "This is some far out funk!" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "wetboy" <sulacco@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: played least Date: 19 Jun 1999 21:05:00 -0400 cd played least: - joe piscopo: new jersey not often played, and (technically) a zorn(related) cd -----Original Message----- >I think it's a good idea to stick to Zorn records - >there are enough of them that fit the bill anyway! >I'll come back when I have my list of ten. > >Stephane >-----Original Message----- >From: XRedbirdxx@aol.com <XRedbirdxx@aol.com>Joseph >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com> >Date: Donnerstag, 17. Juni 1999 10:51 >Subject: played least > > >: >:<< Anyone care to indulge a thread about records/discs they own that get >:played >: the least? >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Santamaria <d028932c@dc.seflin.org> Subject: Evan Parker? Date: 20 Jun 1999 05:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Recently someone mentioned the name Evan Parker to me. I'm not too familiar with him, although I know he plays the sax. Are any of you familiar with him, and if so do you know where I would be able to find his records? ___ | | | +++++ ----- - + + . | + + . | Your Grandpa's cane, it turns into a sword Your Grandma prays to pictures that are pasted on a board -B. D. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Zachary J. Griffin" <zgriffin@iconn.net> Subject: Re: Avant Records Website? Date: 20 Jun 1999 09:43:24 -0400 Thanks, but I already have them bookmarked. Does anybody know how their reliability with mail order? "J.A.Bueno" wrote: > Don`t think so , but there`s a catalog at > http://www.DTMGallery.com/ > > Antonio > > "Zachary J. Griffin" wrote: > > > Hello, > > Is there a website for Avant Records? > > > > Zach > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Slntwtchr@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Avant Records Website? Date: 20 Jun 1999 11:27:20 EDT >Thanks, but I already have them bookmarked. Does anybody know how their >reliability with mail order? i've always gotten my orders from them within a week of placing it. i usually order by email, but i've phoned in a few times and spoken to bruce (the owner) and he's always been extremely friendly and willing to chat about music if he has the time. peace, dave ___________________________________________________________ bill laswell, eraldo bernocchi, mick harris and lori carson discographies at : http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 REVIEWS WANTED ___________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com> Subject: Future Jazz by Howard Mandel Date: 20 Jun 1999 12:37:00 -0500 (CDT) Has anyone read the book "Future Jazz" by Howard Mandel? It apparently contains interviews with E# and Zorn, among others. Out 2 Lunch With Lunhcmeat, Paul psaudino@interaccess.com GROOVE ---------- One Nation - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com> Subject: Joe Harriot Double Quartet Date: 20 Jun 1999 13:40:18 -0500 (CDT) Hello, This week Kock is re-issuing two Joe Harriot albums: The Joe Harriot Double Quartet - _S/T_ Harriot Mayer Double Quartet - _Indo-Jazz Fusions_ Any opinion on these? Paul psaudino@interaccess.com GROOVE ---------- One Nation - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Zachary J. Griffin" <zgriffin@iconn.net> Subject: Re: Avant Records Website? Date: 20 Jun 1999 20:11:33 -0400 "J.A.Bueno" wrote: > I have been placing orders from them for a couple of years. > Never had problems ( i live in Argentina) > > Hope this can help you > Antonio Considering that I live in Connecticut, which is merely a two hour drive away from New York City. It would be a safe guess that there would be even less problems to deal with than you have to get stuff. Thanks for the information, Zach P.S. I had heard about Robert Fripp having a following in Argentina. But I never knew about John Zorn being a well known musician/composer in your country. It is rather funny that I can mention Zorn, Fripp, and other artists of that nature to someone from another country. And he is points me to a store in a state that I visit often to. But when I mention these artists to people in my home state of Connecticut, I get a blank stare. Just an observation. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net> Subject: Lester Bowie's Sho' Nuff Orchestra Date: 20 Jun 1999 20:38:53 -0400 Back around 1981-82, Bowie gave a concert in NYC with this band, an enormous congregation of the finest musicians in NY (my recollection is that it was at Symphony Space). I remember thinking at the time, when debating whether or not to go, that it had all the earmarks of a well-intentioned mess and opted not to attend, but the reviews were sensational; there's a permanent imprint of my heel on my butt. In a photo from the event on the back of Lester's 'All the Magic' release on ECM, to give an idea of the size of the ensemble, one can make out at least 16 saxophonists (including Braxton, Threadgill, Mitchell, Blythe, Hemphill and Lowe!) and at least eight trombonists (with Lewis, Turre, Harris and Lacy). My question is: does anyone know if this was ever recorded? Might tapes exist? Thanks. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Diego Gruber <dgruber@uio.satnet.net> Subject: Zorn in South America Date: 20 Jun 1999 20:26:59 -0500 I wouldn't have thought of it either, being southamerican too, i live in Ecuador, and i get the same blank stare you get in Connecticut, if not an ironic comment following. It is not that surprising when the vast majority doesn't even know shit about the more traditional jazz musicians. i've tried introducing the people a little bit to zorn and other related musicians through a couple of radio shows with little success so far. btw, i'm planning on a trip to NY mainly to attend the shows of Mr. Bungle on August 3/4 at the Bowery Ballroom, and i wondered if someone from NY (or Miami/Tampa as i'd be going there first) on this list would be willing to help me get tickets for the shows, please contact me to see how we could arrange that, i'd be very grateful. does anyone know of any venues featuring Zorn around those dates? thank you very much, Diego > > P.S. I had heard about Robert Fripp having a following in Argentina. But I > never knew about John Zorn being a well known musician/composer in your > country. It is rather funny that I can mention Zorn, Fripp, and other artists > of that nature to someone from another country. And he is points me to a > store in a state that I visit often to. But when I mention these artists to > people in my home state of Connecticut, I get a blank stare. Just an > observation. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: anthony braxton discography Date: 21 Jun 1999 08:20:36 +0200 dear friends, excuse the crosspost, but this subject might interest people on more than one list. After the nice acceptance of the Braxton News From The Seventies Cd, I apparently found a publisher for my Braxton disco. As I said, It's a bit more - every record is annotated by me and there's a critical quotation for each. Plus other appendixes and full indexes. I'm now in the process of completing my last revision and completing the quotes. I'd like to ask collaboration on a few points. 1. missing records -there's always a chance. Until a few weeks ago I'd forgotten to include on of the Cd I have.... To help me I'd send the record title list to anybody's interested to just check it for missing titles. (it's about 200 titles so I can't post it!) 2. quotations: I need still about 50. I can post this list as well. They can be from reviews anywhere, or - get this! - you can make them up yourself! (i stole a few nice messages from the list already, surprise for whomever will be included). I'll mail on request the list of titles available for comment. 3. Among them, I'd like to hear about any reviews of: the aforementioned News from The Seventies, Douglas Ewart's Angles of Entrance, Ensemble 1995 and four composition (Quartet)1995, on Braxton House, 6 duets with joe fonda, Naima by Roland dahinden, Composition 174, Affinity Plays 9 modern jazz classics, 12 compositions/live at Yoshi's July 1993 (any earwitness?) and the last production by your truly, Small Ensemble (Wesleyan) 1994 on Splasc(h). 4. about the beginnings, is there anybody out there with a good collection of Cadence lates 70's and early eighties? I'd need some reviews from that... any observation, idea or suggestion is welcome. thanks a lot and ciao Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: lacy recommendation Date: 21 Jun 1999 00:43:27 -0700 I love Lacy, seen him four times, have about 15 albums. "Live at Sweet Basil" is my favorite. Others arouse fascination, but "Sweet Basil" consistently rises to the top since it came out in 1991. Lacy/Potts/Aebi/Few/Avenel/Betsch had really got their groove together by this point. BMG/Novus/RCA. I have no idea of availability. The poster of the original query mentioned Mal Walrdron's Hard Talk, which I have to agree kicks major heinie. A desert island CD, a crown in my book. And not far behind is Waldron's One-Upsmanship, also with Lacy and Schoof. Whatever, Lacy is a GIANT. np: dino saluzzi - Cite de la Musique. This one has been filed into the racks only briefly since it came out two years ago, spending most of its time in that short list pile next to the CD player. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: halana magazine Date: 21 Jun 1999 04:30:19 EDT 'lo all- Possibly off topic- please bear with me on this one- Came across a new periodical (at least for me) in my favorite music shop titled "halana" . The magazine was sealed, so I didn't have a chance to grab a peek of the contents inside. Some of the artists included in the 'zine (and on the enclosed CD) include Richard Bishop, Ralph Haxton, idBattery, Raphael Torel, David Tudor, and Motoharu Yoshizawa. Anyone know more about this magazine and if it's worth picking up? =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: hips road summer blowout: pedagogical fantasy Date: 21 Jun 1999 13:44:51 GMT "Did he say 'pedagogical'? Not on this list, the dirty bastard!" Did anyone go to these? Marc Ribot - Guitar Question & Answer (06/17/99 3 to 5:00pm) Elliott Sharp - Notation Systems (06/18/99 Noon to 2:00pm) William Parker - Construction of Creative Music (06/18/99 3 to 5:00pm) Henry Threadgill - Question & Answer (06/19/99 3 to 5:00pm) Wadada Leo Smith - Creative Music (06/19/99 Noon to 2:00pm) How were they? Could anyone summarize/comment for the rest of us unlucky enough not to be in NYC? And will anyone be able to after attending these? Anthony Coleman - Composition (06/21/99 Noon to 2:00pm) Dave Douglas - Ear Training and Improvisation (06/21/99 3 to 5:00pm) I for one feel that space dedicated to Hips Road master classes and shows is bandwidth well-spent. Cheers, Scott _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nvinokur@aol.com Subject: Re: lacy recommendation Date: 21 Jun 1999 10:04:39 EDT Steve Lacy duet album with Gil Evans is recommended. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Evan Parker? Date: 21 Jun 1999 14:06:13 GMT >Recently someone mentioned the name Evan Parker to me. I'm not >too familiar with him, although I know he plays the sax. Are any of you >familiar with him, and if so do you know where I would be able to find >his records? 1. Evan Parker is really brilliant, and I don't feel bad at all collecting his records, which don't require trainspotting for all the beatiful subtle differences to come into full bloom. An interesting article comparing Parker's solo soprano saxophone improvisations to Milford Graves amazing solo drum work can be found in John Corbett's excellent EXTENDED PLAY (Duke Univ Press), as can an interview with the man on botany, saxophony, E.P. Thompson, etc. 2. My absolute favorite record by E.P. is 50th BIRTHDAY CONCERT, a double CD with one performance each by two of Parker's longstanding units, Parker/Guy/Lytton and the Sclippenback Trio (is it still improv? who cares? Interesting that both Paul Lytton's explanation of what P-G-L does and Milford Graves' explanation of his own polyrhythmic approach, vis-a-vis Corbett, should focus on physiological metaphors/models----namely the pulse and heartbeat and a kind of comunicative respiration. The Sclippenbach Trio (piano, percussion, sax) is an amazing experience, though when I saw them Lytton was playing, and he is not the same as Lovens, who I will drive to Europe to see, if necessary, before I/he die(s). Two great Sclippnebach discs are PHYSICS and ELF BAGATELLEN. We are so overdue for a new release, or reissues. Damn. BREATHS AND HEARTBEATS is a fantastic Parker/Guy/Lytton record. And I really like Parker's Electroacoustic Ensemble, which now has two records on ECM (haven't heard the newest). Finally, I might encourage you to check out the solo soprano album CONIC SECTIONS, which is really worth the price, IMHO. 3. I like to patronize Downtown Music Gallery (1-800-622-1387, website somewhere), because Bruce Gallanter knows quite a bit (mostly downtown stuff, since NYC is apparently the electromagnetic center of the universe ["this isn't real money, this is French money!"]), and he's really friendly. Cadence is a good source, though cheaper if you are "subscriber". You might check with Gino Robair through his Rastascan website; he does some imports, cheap. 4. I just posted a long-ass response. Now, is this case-in-point for a mad phat FAQ that would settle this once and for all. I mean, if I was a newbie and tuned in and found a concise recomm. FAQ from, say, Francesco Martinelli----THAT would be excellent. Less bandwidth taken up with good but repetitive questions. Just 2 cents. ------s _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Evan Parker? Date: 21 Jun 1999 11:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Rather than an E. Parker FAQ here, those interested could just check Peter Stubley's excellent European Free Improvisers page and click on the "Evan Parker" bio (or others of interest, come to think of it). It's at: www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/ Then the interested person could back to this list or another with queries about so-and-so CDs, rather than those open-ended "tell me all about XYZ and his recorded work". After all *everyone* here has his or her favorite discs, which may not turn on the asker, wthout that person doing a little research him or herself. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net (N.P. John Butcher-Georg Graewe Light's View -Nuscope - features one back cover and one inside photo by Susan O'Connor -- take that ML) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: hathut: the inquisition (long) Date: 21 Jun 1999 15:27:23 GMT Guys & gals: I would be upset too if someone posted a huge hunk of the HatHut catalog, but once and for all, especially w/ the impending sale, aI'd like to solicit public or private responses on Hat stuff I DON'T HAVE (yet). I'm just interested in what any of the following recordings are like, or how well you like them. I've enjoyed so much of my Hat stuff so much, it's really in many ways the "anti-ECM", thoug not as much as, perhaps, Tzadik. Here, I'll offer a few suggestions. 1. JIMMY LYONS/SUNNY MURRAY(/JOHN LINDBERG)- Jump Up. A nice, long, live post-Ornette rave-up for the spritely right arm alto of Cecil Taylor; I have no idea how this stacks up to Lyons' rather rare other solo recordings, but this is a joyous occasion with Jimy soundings just great. Short heads with mounds of blowing. I never get bored with this album, and it's a great "morning record". Sunny Murray is in tip top shape, and recording quality is excellent. A great investment for aspiring creative reedists. 2. ZORN / FRISELL / LEWIS - News for Lulu. Alto, electric guitar, and trombone...the usual bebop combo. Of course. Hard-bop, Zorn-style, with a kind of off-kilter contrapuntal approach. A brilliant way to mine a rich, prolific tradition. Essential listening for Zorno-philes, "second-tier" Zorn (not a must-have, but an excellent addition to the "classics"). So worth checking out. 3. ANTHONY BRAXTON - Willisau (QUARTET) 1991. Don't be left out in the rain on this one. "Masterpiece"-talk leaves me filled with ennui, but for this to go out of print (?) is just too bad. I alost want to buy another in preparation for my first set wearing out. Two live and two studio discs from a week in Willisau, with Marilyn Crispell, Gerry Hemingway, and a fabulous Mark Dresser. My favorite Brax bar-none, with absolutely model recording quality and solid playing. The live discs are super-top-notch. Expensive but worth it. I would recommend it without reservation to adventurous listeners who are NOT even Brax collectors. Alpha and omega of Braxton. 4. FRANZ KOGLMANN - Use of Memory. Rarified, but pretty neat. Actually, I think everyone should own a Koglmann or two, he's just so different from anything out there. Is it ignorant to call this "ultra-European"? He took a bit of flak for differentiating between "white" and "black" jazz a number of years ago, but when Franz sticks to what he knows, we are treated to a bourgeois postmodernism that I find both charming and dark. He refers to his music as "decadent", but don't expect HERETIC. Schubert, film theory, serialism, percussive clatter, free-jazz, and chance make for a very bewildering and bizarre sound-world. Those are a few of the Hat catalog I think everyone should own. Of course, maybe everyone DOES (oops). But below are some recordings I'd love to get short opinions on. What's essential? What's cool? If, for example, I could only afford five or six.... 6001 HERBERT DISTEL / DIE REISE 6017 FRITZ HAUSER / DIE TROMMEL & DIE WELLE 6019 ANTHONY BRAXTON / FOUR COMPOSITIONS 1982 / 1988 6020 DAVID MURRAY / 3 D FAMILY 6026 MICHEL REDOLFI / SONIC WATERS 1983 / 1989 6029 MAARTEN ALTENA ENSEMBLE / QUOTL 6032 STEVE LACY NINE / FUTURITIES PART 2 6034 TON ╖ ART / Z∙ 6037 FRITZ HAUSER & STEPHAN GRIEDER / THE MIRROR 6038 VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / CONCERTO PICCOLO 6041 MAX ROACH & ARCHIE SHEPP / THE LONG MARCH 1 6042 MAX ROACH & ARCHIE SHEPP / THE LONG MARCH 2 6043 GR─WE-REIJSEGER-HEMINGWAY / SONIC FICTION 6045 STEVE LACY & BRION GYSIN / SONGS 6046 COE, OXLEY & CO / NUTTY 6049 URS LEIMGRUBER / UNGLEICH 6056 MAARTEN ALTENA OCTET / RIF 6057 JOE McPHEE PO MUSIC / LINEAR B 6058 ANDR╔ JAUME MUSIQUE POUR 8 / LÆOC 6060 HERBERT DISTEL / LA STAZIONE 6065 ANTHONY ORTEGA / NEW DANCE 6067 FRITZ HAUSER / PENSIERI BIANCHI 6069 STEVE LACY & MAARTEN ALTENA 2-6070 JOHN CAGE / MUSIC FOR FIVE 6073 VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / FROM NO TIME TO RAG TIME 6076 MORTON FELDMAN / FOR BUNITA MARCUS 6079 STEVE LACY + 16 / ITINERARY 6081 PAUL BLEY / 12(+ 6) IN A ROW 6082 MAARTEN ALTENA OCTET / CITIES & STREETS 6084 GERRY HEMINGWAY QUINTET / SPECIAL DETAIL 6085 JOHN CARTER-BOBBY BRADFORD / SEEKING 6088 TON ╖ ART / MAL VU MAL DIT. 6091 URS LEIMGRUBER & FRITZ HAUSER / L'ENIGMATIQUE 6094 MAARTEN ALTENA ENSEMBLE / CODE 6096 VlENNA ART ORCHESTRA / A NOTION IN PERPETUAL MOTION 6102 STEVE LACY / REMAINS 6103 JO╦LLE L╔ANDRE & ERIC WATSON / PALIMPSESTE 6105 CHRISTY DORAN / WHAT A BAND 6107 MORTON FELDMAN / FOR SAMUEL BECKETT 6108 FRANZ KOGLMANN / SCHLAF SCHLEMMER, SCHLAF MAGRITTE 6109 KURT SCHWITTERS / URSONATE 6110 HANS KENNEL / MYTHA 6112 MARIA DE ALVEAR / EN AMOR DURO 6113 OLIVER LAKE / ZAKI 6114 KAZUO FUKUSHIMA / WORKS FOR FLUTE AND PIANO 6115 GALINA USTVOLSKAYA 1 6125 JOHN CAGE / FONTANA MIX 6126 PAUL SMOKER TRIO / GENUINE FABLES 6129 JOHN CAGE / PRELUDE FOR MEDITATION 6130 GALINA USTVOLSKAYA 2 6131 MATHIAS SPAHLINGER / EXTENSION 6132 KARLHEINZ STOCKHAUSEN / SPIRAL 6133 TOM JOHNSON / RATIONAL MELODIES 6136 MYRA MELFORD TRIO / ALIVE IN THE HOUSE OF SAINTS 6138 DAVE BURRELL / WINDWARD PASSAGES 6141 JOHN CAGE / WINTER MUSIC 6143 MORTON FELDMAN / WORKS FOR PIANO 2 6144 THE BAD BOYS / G. ANTHEIL, H. COWELL & L. ORNSTEIN 2-6145 MORTON FELDMAN / PATTERNS IN A CHROMATIC FlELD 6148 SCELSI, BYZANTIUM, THE ALCHEMISTS / VOXNOVA 2-6152 WESTBROOK-ROSSINI / Z▄RICH LIVE 1986 6157 SOVIET AVANT-GARDE / LOURI╔, MOSSOLOV, PROTOPOPOV & ROSLAVETZ 6163 FRANZ KOGLMANN & LEE KONITZ / WE THOUGHT ABOUT DUKE 6165 R. ANDERSON, C. HARRIS, G. LEWIS & G. VALENTE / SLIDERIDE 6166 MORTON FELDMAN / CLARINET & STRING QUARTET 6167 CHRISTIAN WOLFF / EXERCICES 6168 JOHN CAGE / SIXTY-EIGHT 6169 ERNSTALBRECHT STIEBLER / THREE IN ONE 6170 GALINA USTVOLSKAYA 3 2-6172 STEVE LACY & MAL WALDRON / LIVE AT DREHER PARIS 1981 6174 LEE KONITZ, DON FRIEDMAN & ATTILA ZOLLER / THINGIN 6176 NEW YORK SCHOOL 3 6177 EARLE BROWN / SYNERGY 6178 SAXOPHONE / CONQUEST OF MELODY 6180 ALEA / EBERHARD BLUM 6181 DAVID TUDOR / PIANO AVANT-GARDE 6182 STEFAN WOLPE / PASSACAGLIA 6184 GUILLERMO GREGORIO / APPROXIMATELY 6185 HANS KENNEL / HABARIGANI BRASS 2-6186 MAL WALDRON & STEVE LACY / THE PEAK 6187 CATALOGUE / P╔N╔TRATION 6188 JOE MANERI QUARTET / DAHABENZAPPLE 2-6189 STEVE LACY TWO, FIVE & SIX / BLINKS 6191 CORNELIUS SCHWEHR / POCO A POCO SUBITO 2-6192 JOHN CAGE / TWO, FIVE & SEVEN 6193 JAMES TENNEY / BRIDGE & FLOCKING 4-6194 ANTHONY BRAXTON / PIANO MUSIC (NOTATED)1968-1988 6195 MORTON FELDMAN / TRIO 2-6196 ROMAN HAUBENSTOCK-RAMATI / POUR PIANO 6198 JON LLOYD QUARTET / BY CONFUSION _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn_Lea@avid.com Subject: Freedom is Wings Date: 21 Jun 1999 11:38:31 -0400 Has anyone heard this 2-CD Tzadik tribute to Tom Cora yet? snipped from cdnow site: Performers include: Fred Frith, Kazutoki Umezu, Samm Bennett, Haruna Ito, Chris Cochrane, Zeena Parkins, John Zorn, Marc Ribot, Leo Smith, Eugene Chadbourne, Masaoka Miya, Bob Ostertag, Kramer, Chris Cutler, Richard Teitelbaum. Anyone? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: halana Date: 21 Jun 1999 11:59:28 -0500 I bought one issue of Halana and loved it. It's cheap for what you get, but expensive if you're not going to like it, so if you like the artists listed, it's worth it. The issue I got (the one before the current, I believe. I think they do one or two a year) featured Haino, Wm. Parker, Pauline Oliveros and a couple others. Interview subjects are all on the CD, and the CD featured tracks not available elsewhere. The interviews are long, intelligent and well researched. Other issues I've seen haven't drawn me in like William and Haino did (and wouldn't I like to hear that duet, now that I'm writing the words next to each other), but that's a mattera taste. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu> Subject: Re: hat Date: 21 Jun 1999 11:23:06 -0500 (EST) Hi all, Yes, shame on the Hat folk for letting the stuff go out of print. It's true that Uehlinger is supposed to be cranky, pushy, and at times frankly bizarre; but can they really justify letting go of "Garden," "Willisau," and other jewels? Oh well, here's a brief run-down of some I think are worth getting. > 6020 DAVID MURRAY / 3 D FAMILY Vintage late 70s Murray, before he started moving closer to Lincoln Center territory. Johnny Dyani on bass, and Andrew Cyrille kicks butt on drums. 4 very long pieces, with Murray doing his best Ayler. > 6057 JOE McPHEE PO MUSIC / LINEAR B I'm a McPhee hound, and this is one of the better hat releases. Soulful, lyrical, and intelligent, with the usual suspects (Boni, Jaume, et. al.) on hand. Uehlinger apparently almost ruined this session for Joe, but it sounds lovely. > 6084 GERRY HEMINGWAY QUINTET / SPECIAL DETAIL This is probably the weakest of Hemingway's hat disc, but it's still quite good. Strong tunes, overlapping rhythms, and great textures. Don Byron and Ed Schuller instead of Dresser and Michael Moore here. > 6102 STEVE LACY / REMAINS Vintage solo. In my opinion,the best recorded version of the Tao Suite. > 6113 OLIVER LAKE / ZAKI One of my fave all-time albums, no shit. Michael Gregory Jackson is a lost treasure on guitar -- hearing his late 70s stuff makes Joe Morris make more sense. Jackson was doing it all. Lake is burning here, as is AkLaff. I really can't say enough about the intensity, the inventiveness, and the sheer smarts & listening of this trio. I could write more, but I'll just briefly say that these are also worth getting. I listen to them all with great regularity, and it's great that hat released them at all. > 6126 PAUL SMOKER TRIO / GENUINE FABLES > 6136 MYRA MELFORD TRIO / ALIVE IN THE HOUSE OF SAINTS > 6188 JOE MANERI QUARTET / DAHABENZAPPLE > 2-6189 STEVE LACY TWO, FIVE & SIX / BLINKS Jason Bivins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: hathut: the inquisition (long) Date: 21 Jun 1999 12:31:37 EDT a little Hat feedback: <<6057 JOE McPHEE PO MUSIC / LINEAR B>> the best McPhee record I've heard. <<6065 ANTHONY ORTEGA / NEW DANCE>> a great late sixties West Coast little-known alto player, at least on the evidence of this record. <<6076 MORTON FELDMAN / FOR BUNITA MARCUS 2-6145 MORTON FELDMAN / PATTERNS IN A CHROMATIC FlELD>> I believe these are the two Feldman CDs I would suggest for neophytes just starting to delve into his vast, brilliant catalog. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: hathut: the inquisition (long) Date: 21 Jun 1999 12:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Scott: I've heard (read) good things about some of the other CDs, but the only one I can recommend unreservedly is: MYRA MELFORD TRIO / ALIVE IN THE HOUSE OF SAINTS This is her powerful group with Reggie Nicholson (d) and Lindsay Horner (b), which really showcases her talent. The disc is also more "pianistic" and "jazzy" than here more chamber-like Same River Twice work. And, of course, because there are only three musicians, Myra really gets a chance to shine in her solos. One question though. You talk about a "sale". Is somebody having a sale or has hatArt been sold to someone else? Maybe MCA/Polydor --it hasn't bought a label for a couple of minutes. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Re: lacy recommendation Date: 21 Jun 1999 09:42:51 -0700 Nvinokur@aol.com writes: >From: Nvinokur@aol.com >Subject: Re: lacy recommendation >Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:04:39 EDT >Steve Lacy duet album with Gil Evans is recommended. On Owl -- I have a strong affection for this one as well. I think it's called Paris Blues. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Freedom is Wings AKA Hallalujah,Anyway Date: 21 Jun 1999 13:09:48 -0400 >Has anyone heard this 2-CD Tzadik tribute to Tom Cora yet? > > snipped from cdnow site: Performers include: Fred Frith, Kazutoki >Umezu, Samm >Bennett, Haruna Ito, > Chris Cochrane, Zeena Parkins, John Zorn, Marc Ribot, Leo Smith, Eugene > Chadbourne, Masaoka Miya, Bob Ostertag, Kramer, Chris Cutler, Richard > Teitelbaum. > A really beautiful set. (The title was changed to Hallalujah,Anyway) It opens with a solo trumpet piece by Leslie Dalaba, very poignant, drenched in the natural reverb of a church. There are 2 Curlew tracks, 2 from his Solo Cello disc, and one each from Skeleton Crew and Nimal, that were all previously released. Most of the rest are tribute tracks by his friends and collaborators, and some live recordings of Tom's later period projects, nicely segued by Fred Frith. Even though I haven't fully digested both discs, I'd say its definitely a must own. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer <keffer@planetc.com> Subject: halana Date: 21 Jun 1999 13:22:02 -0400 > >From: Dgasque@aol.com >Came across a new periodical (at least for me) in my favorite music shop >titled "halana" . The magazine was sealed, so I didn't have a chance to grab >a peek of the contents inside. Some of the artists included in the 'zine >(and on the enclosed CD) include Richard Bishop, Ralph Haxton, idBattery, >Raphael Torel, David Tudor, and Motoharu Yoshizawa. Anyone know more about >this magazine and if it's worth picking up? > Previous issues of this magazine have been fantastic. I haven't read this issue (probably #4) but this magazine has extremely in-depth interviews and weird things like short stories by John Fahey, real high-brow theorizing by Tony Conrad, all neat stuff. The cd that accompanies the mag is also very fine. I bet if you buy issue 4, you will like it so much you will go back to the halana website and get the back issues too. http://www.halana.com has some of the back issue articles on line. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KruciFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #683 Date: 21 Jun 1999 13:30:23 EDT In a message dated 6/21/99 11:35:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << his week Kock is re-issuing two Joe Harriot albums: The Joe Harriot Double Quartet - _S/T_ Harriot Mayer Double Quartet - _Indo-Jazz Fusions_ >> the indo jazz fusions is fantastic but has a lot of drawn out portions, a little long maybe....more indo than jazz. good though. ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: hathut: the inquisition (long) Date: 21 Jun 1999 17:58:49 GMT As far as I know, HatHut is safe (and government sponsored w/ Nazi gold----that was a joke, for the befuddled and outraged). They are, however, only printing rather limited quantities of all the new Hatology and Hatnow discs, cutting down on the number of essays/languages represented in each, and deleting much, if not all, of their back catalog. If I won the lottery, after buying a house, I would start a Hat/FMP/PoTorch/ESP reissue house. ---s >One question though. You talk about a "sale". Is somebody having a sale >or has hatArt been sold to someone else? Maybe MCA/Polydor --it hasn't >bought a label for a couple of minutes. > >Ken Waxman >cj649@torfree.net _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: hathut: the inquisition (long) Date: 21 Jun 1999 12:49:39 -0500 >6020 DAVID MURRAY / 3 D FAMILY I'll second Jason's recommendation on this one. Some fine, raucous early DM. >6038 VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / CONCERTO PICCOLO I've never found the recorded VAO stuff to come up to my expectations of them. Interesting ideas but, generally, murky execution. Their disc of Satie interpretations is better than others, though. >6076 MORTON FELDMAN / FOR BUNITA MARCUS >6107 MORTON FELDMAN / FOR SAMUEL BECKETT Great stuff, the former solo piano, the latter for chamber ensemble. I can listen to these things day in, day out. >6133 TOM JOHNSON / RATIONAL MELODIES Really nice record; solo pieces based somewhat on mathematical constructs. Wish Johnson would release more music. Check out his wonderful 'Failing; a Very Difficult Piece for String Bass' on the first Bang on a Can compilation (CRI). Brfian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Evan Parker Date: 21 Jun 1999 16:01:44 -0500 John Santamaria <d028932c@dc.seflin.org> wrote: > Recently someone mentioned the name Evan Parker to me. I'm not > too familiar with him, although I know he plays the sax. Are any of you > familiar with him, and if so do you know where I would be able to find > his records? I think Cadence is the place to get most of the Parker records. Chronoscope (UK) just re-released his 1978 solo record 'Monoceros,' which is mind-numbingly brilliant. It's solo soprano with all kinds of freaky virtuosity, including circular breathing and triple tonguing and stuff like that. Kind of reminded me of Zorn's 'Classic Guide to Strategy' when I first heard it, but Monoceros is a different concept. Not so much humor as raw intensity. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Joe Harriot Double Quartet Date: 21 Jun 1999 16:05:42 -0500 Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com> wrote: > This week Kock is re-issuing two Joe Harriot albums: > > The Joe Harriot Double Quartet - _S/T_ > Harriot Mayer Double Quartet - _Indo-Jazz Fusions_ > > Any opinion on these? Indo-Jazz Fusions is the one I've heard. It's very nice. I think the Wire was ranting and raving about Joe Harriott a couple months back, and rightly so. The music is more mellow and relaxed than I expected, and orders of magnitude more interesting than the glam-fusion indo-jazz of the McLaughlin era. If you dig this stuff, you might want to check out Warren Senders' group Antigravity for more Indo-Jazz fusion (with a freer edge). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: halana Date: 21 Jun 1999 17:27:19 EDT In a message dated 6/21/99 1:20:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, keffer@planetc.com writes: << I bet if you buy issue 4, you will like it so much you will go back to the halana website and get the back issues too. >> Got a load of responses about this mag, both public and private (thanks all!) - so I went and got it. Heck of a magazine for $8, indeed. Haven't jumped into the CD yet, but the magazine is a very in-depth read with an imaginative approach to the writing. Lots of "mini" CD reviews in the back, too. Even the ads are tasteful and informative! Big thumbs up from this buyer. I'm going to the website for more... spinning: Jez Lowe and the Bad Pennies- The Parish Notices =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: johnzorn <johnzorn@redcouch.com> Subject: Question-more news for lulu,etc. Date: 21 Jun 1999 16:37:38 +0000 Saw the Boredoms in Minneapolis last night...one very nice hour long(no breaks!) set and then a nice encore....mmm.... anyway, does anyone know where I can find a copy of more news for lulu, or deadly weapons?(mail order or in the minneapolis area)been looking for awhile now...any info appreciated thanks! -matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: hathut: the inquisition (long) Date: 21 Jun 1999 18:59:19 EDT In a message dated 6/21/99 11:53:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, c123018@hotmail.com writes: << I would be upset too if someone posted a huge hunk of the HatHut catalog, but once and for all, especially w/ the impending sale, aI'd like to solicit public or private responses on Hat stuff I DON'T HAVE (yet). >> I must have missed something.......WHAT Hat sale? Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: new Ground Zero? Date: 21 Jun 1999 21:32:19 -0400 The Office Ambience on the Wire's chart list for June includes Ground Zero Last Concert on Amoebic. Anyone heard this? Comments? Know where to get one (it's not listed at Forced Exposure, my typical source for Japanese CDs)? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: new Ground Zero? Date: 22 Jun 1999 02:28:47 EDT In a message dated 6/21/99 9:28:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cdeupree@erinet.com writes: << The Office Ambience on the Wire's chart list for June includes Ground Zero Last Concert on Amoebic. >> I think this is out in Japan, but I'm almost positive it hasn't made it to the US yet. I believe that Sachiko brought a few to sell at Victoriaville, but I didn't see them, and I asked Bruce Gallanter about it yesterday coincidentally, and he hasn't gotten any in yet. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: hathut: the inquisition (long) Date: 22 Jun 1999 13:36:55 GMT > I would be upset too if someone posted a huge hunk of the HatHut catalog, > but once and for all, especially w/ the impending sale, aI'd like to >solicit > public or private responses on Hat stuff I DON'T HAVE (yet). >> > >I must have missed something.......WHAT Hat sale? > >Dale. This brings up a good point. Hat says they'll be having a big discount sale on remaining merchandise in July, but Bruce Gallanter knows nothing about it (understandably----Hat only deals with Cadence, apparently), but the person answering at Cadence told me Hat single-CDs would be $14. Is that a good deal? I mean, the on-line joints usually run old Hats for like $12. Not to be a cheapskate, but...+ -----s _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: The Boredoms rock DC Date: 22 Jun 1999 10:13:18 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Jeni Dahmus wrote: > The Boredoms slayed me again last night! They sounded better at the > 9:30 Club than at the Bell Atlantic Jazz Fest. The sets were similar but > the DC show was less ambient. There was even a long encore, and for a > moment I thought there might be a second encore too. I was pleased to see > an enthusiastic crowd in DC; certainly there were a few doing the DC > "stand still" but overall people seemed into it. yeah, it was a good show, but, dammit, when i saw them in '92 or '93 opening for sonic youth in richmond, it was one of the single greatest live shows i've ever witnessed. gone are the radical stop/starts, tempo shifts, metallic riffs, fake beat-boxing, etc. losing the other singer really changed them into a more linear, effects-oriented, tribal band. they are still definitely worth seeing in this more psychedelic incarnation and they certainly work up a dense groove. i think the encore was my favorite part just cause eye actually busted out some insane old-school screaming, even trading off some throat-shredding with a guy standing in the front, wearing a man is the bastard t-shirt. i felt bad for them that they were submitted to the "stand still" -- geez, fuck dc. i'm really sick of that. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: New Cibo Matto Date: 22 Jun 1999 16:38:39 -0300 By the way, what about the new Cibo Matto? Are Josh Roseman and Dave Douglas playing? Opinions? Hugo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: Freedom is Wings AKA Hallalujah,Anyway Date: 22 Jun 1999 22:14:33 -0400 Rich Williams wrote: > > >Has anyone heard this 2-CD Tzadik tribute to Tom Cora yet? > > > > snipped from cdnow site: Performers include: Fred Frith, Kazutoki > >Umezu, Samm > >Bennett, Haruna Ito, > > Chris Cochrane, Zeena Parkins, John Zorn, Marc Ribot, Leo Smith, Eugene > > Chadbourne, Masaoka Miya, Bob Ostertag, Kramer, Chris Cutler, Richard > > Teitelbaum. > > > > A really beautiful set. (The title was changed to > Hallalujah,Anyway) It opens with a solo trumpet piece by Leslie > Dalaba, very poignant, drenched in the natural reverb of a church. > There are 2 Curlew tracks, 2 from his Solo Cello disc, and one each > from Skeleton Crew and Nimal, that were all previously released. Most > of the rest are tribute tracks by his friends and collaborators, and > some live recordings of Tom's later period projects, nicely segued by > Fred Frith. Even though I haven't fully digested both discs, I'd say > its definitely a must own. > > - Gotta second this. I was not familiar with Cora (oops!), but it's a great introduction, and some of the tribute pieces are just gorgeous, especially Dalaba's trumpet piece and a solo piano piece by Wayne Horvitz titled Love, Love, Love. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: Future Jazz by Howard Mandel Date: 22 Jun 1999 22:19:50 -0400 Paul Audino wrote: > > Has anyone read the book "Future Jazz" by Howard Mandel? It apparently > contains interviews with E# and Zorn, among others. > It's about time somebody wrote a book like this. The foreword, which describe's Mandel's early music listening history in Chicago is just wonderful writing about appreciating music. Mandel alternates segments of his 1984 interview with Wynton Marsalis with chapters devoted to some of Marsalis's contemporaries, in which they talk about how they came up the way they did, all of which neatly puts the lie to Marsalis's assertions that 1) jazz is a narrowly defined music with strict boundaries, and 2) people like Zorn, Murray, Blood Ulmer, etc. don't know enough about the history of jazz. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: Future Jazz by Howard Mandel Date: 22 Jun 1999 22:19:50 -0400 Paul Audino wrote: > > Has anyone read the book "Future Jazz" by Howard Mandel? It apparently > contains interviews with E# and Zorn, among others. > It's about time somebody wrote a book like this. The foreword, which describe's Mandel's early music listening history in Chicago is just wonderful writing about appreciating music. Mandel alternates segments of his 1984 interview with Wynton Marsalis with chapters devoted to some of Marsalis's contemporaries, in which they talk about how they came up the way they did, all of which neatly puts the lie to Marsalis's assertions that 1) jazz is a narrowly defined music with strict boundaries, and 2) people like Zorn, Murray, Blood Ulmer, etc. don't know enough about the history of jazz. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: moonraker Date: 22 Jun 1999 23:57:43 EDT anyone catch mike patton & company in sf opening up for melt banana the other night? i believe they went under the name "moonraker". patton, a dj and the guitarist from melt banana. i'd love to hear a review. also if anyone happened to tape it please contact me privately. thanks. jt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles Gillett <gill0042@tc.umn.edu> Subject: Re: Question-more news for lulu,etc. Date: 22 Jun 1999 23:24:42 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:37:38, johnzorn <johnzorn@redcouch.com> wrote: > anyway, does anyone know where I can find a copy of more news for > lulu, or deadly weapons?(mail order or in the minneapolis area) > been looking for awhile now...any info appreciated More News For Lulu is on the shelves at Roadrunner Records (43rd and Nicollet), I believe. I was just there earlier today, but I didn't check that. Deadly Weapons I've never seen anywhere. I'm currently annoyed because the multimedia disc of the new Beefheart box on Revenant doesn't work on my computer...the stupid machine doesn't even recognize it as a CD. -- Charles - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl> Subject: new Dave Douglas Date: 23 Jun 1999 09:47:34 +0200 Hi all, some time ago someone on the list mentioned a new Dave Douglas album on Winter & Winter, and asked if the European members already got hold of it. Well, I'm happy to say I bought it a few days ago and it's absolutely beautiful! It's sold as a Douglas album, but in fact it's the Tiny Bell Trio. These guys get better every time I hear them! The sound is also brilliant: it reminds me of the latest Pachora release... Get this beauty when you can! Jeroen Jeroen de Boer student Arts & Arts Management University of Groningen, The Netherlands J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl program director Open Electronic Festival Munnekeholm 10 9711 JA Groningen, The Netherlands phone: 031 (0) 50-3637513 fax: 031 (0) 50-3632209 usva-th1@bureau.rug.nl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Heather and Jeff" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: Re: New Cibo Matto Date: 23 Jun 1999 07:21:10 -0400 >By the way, what about the new Cibo Matto? Are Josh Roseman and Dave >Douglas playing? Opinions? Yes, they are, along with Dougie Bowne and Sean Lennon who's now a member of the band. I don't like it as much as the debut record. It seems like they've lost some of their innocence and are more "profesional" now. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sibree/Wilkes <numbats@iinet.net.au> Subject: LP auction - some Zorn content, mostly free jazz/avant garde Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:03:07 +0800 A reminder that my latest auction list closes 25 June, midnight California time. Email for details. Regards, Billy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Freedom is Wings AKA Hallalujah,Anyway Date: 23 Jun 1999 11:59:26 -0400 (EDT) > >A really beautiful set [...cut...]. Even though I haven't > >fully digested both discs, I'd say its definitely a must own. > Gotta second this. I was not familiar with Cora (oops!), but it's a > great introduction, and some of the tribute pieces are just gorgeous, > especially Dalaba's trumpet piece and a solo piano piece by Wayne > Horvitz titled Love, Love, Love. > > >Performers include: Fred Frith, Kazutoki Umezu, Samm Bennett, Haruna > > >Ito, Chris Cochrane, Zeena Parkins, John Zorn, Marc Ribot, Leo Smith, > > >Eugene Chadbourne, Masaoka Miya, Bob Ostertag, Kramer, Chris Cutler, > > >Richard Teitelbaum. Also Gerry Hemingway, The Ex, Roof, Iva Bittova, Barre Phillips, etc. Excellent liner notes, although I can't figure out who wrote them except when they're initialed. With the way the tracks segue from one to the next, it sounds like it could be the work of one group in the way that it flows. A lot of the rock/jazz/RIO-prog type hybrids are really hard to place in terms of when or where they were recorded (a good thing), and a lot of the songs are unavailable or at least hard to find. Someone had mentioned Joseph Spence on this list a few weeks ago, I think. There's a great solo cello version of a traditional ("There'll be a Happy Meeting", I think) which the notes say was inspired by Spence. I agree that this is very much worth getting. WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Igor Sombillo <batibot123@hotmail.com> Subject: the Ruins in Philadelphia Date: 23 Jun 1999 19:52:33 GMT For fans of the Boredoms, the Ruins from Japan are playing a show in Philadelphia with the underground grindcore band Discordance Axis from NJ. The show will start at 7PM and will only cost $5, the place is a haven for many underground punk/hardcore/grindcore bands. The Ruins released a CD in 1995 on Zorn's Tzadik label. They have been described as a mixture of jazz, noise, metal, funk, prog rock, etc. They have also worked with Derek Bailey and released a CD as Derek & the Ruins on Tzadik. Anyway, they are playing on July 15th at Stalag13 in Philly. For info or directions check their website and get in touch with one of the person in charge. http://members.xoom.com/stalag13/ IF you want to hear samples check CDnow. Later, ITS You like grind? hardcore? death metal? then go Visit the Wall of Death Picture page @: http://members.xoom.com/hamog/ Here's the Human Remains Page: http://members.xoom.com/hamog/hremains/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbayweb.com> Subject: Re: the Ruins in Philadelphia Date: 23 Jun 1999 16:45:29 -0700 Are the Ruins the same as the Pencilneck Ruins? ---------- > From: Igor Sombillo <batibot123@hotmail.com> > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: the Ruins in Philadelphia > Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 12:52 PM > > For fans of the Boredoms, the Ruins from Japan are playing a show in > Philadelphia with the underground grindcore band Discordance Axis from NJ. > The show will start at 7PM and will only cost $5, the place is a haven for > many underground punk/hardcore/grindcore bands. > > The Ruins released a CD in 1995 on Zorn's Tzadik label. They have been > described as a mixture of jazz, noise, metal, funk, prog rock, etc. They > have also worked with Derek Bailey and released a CD as Derek & the Ruins on > Tzadik. > > Anyway, they are playing on July 15th at Stalag13 in Philly. For info or > directions check their website and get in touch with one of the person in > charge. http://members.xoom.com/stalag13/ > > IF you want to hear samples check CDnow. > > Later, > ITS > > You like grind? hardcore? death metal? then go Visit the Wall of Death > Picture page @: http://members.xoom.com/hamog/ > > Here's the Human Remains Page: > http://members.xoom.com/hamog/hremains/ > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Lechtenberg <dlkk@verinet.com> Subject: Re: hathut: the inquisition (long) Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:02:14 -0500 > 6038 VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / CONCERTO PICCOLO > 6073 VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / FROM NO TIME TO RAG TIME These are both great. If you like avant big band stuff similar to Willem Breuker Kollektief, you'll love VAO. In fact, I like VAO better than WBK. I find VAO stuff to be more sharply executed than WBK (particularly No Time To Rag Time) and avoids some the sappiness of WBK. -Dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: hathut: the inquisition Date: 23 Jun 1999 22:19:24 -0400 At 01:36 PM 6/22/99 GMT, Scott Handley wrote: > >(understandably----Hat only deals with Cadence, apparently), but the person >answering at Cadence told me Hat single-CDs would be $14. Is that a good >deal? I mean, the on-line joints usually run old Hats for like $12. Not to >be a cheapskate, but...+ Cadence's currently listed prices on Hat CDs is $17 (although as recently as March it was $14). They've got almost everything currently in print though. I'll certainly be filling in some gaps if they announce a sale in their next issue. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <GUSTAVO.BROGGI@monsanto.com> Subject: Texier/off topic Date: 24 Jun 1999 07:15:54 -0500 Does anybody know where i can get information about Henri Texier (in english or spanish). And the addresses of other list about jazz? Please email me privately Thanks in advance Gustavo Gustavo.broggi@monsanto.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: VAO Date: 24 Jun 1999 11:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Here I have to weigh in with an opposite comment. I haven't heard the two CDs referred to, but the VAO, is vastly overrated IMHO. The band played a showcase show at the Toronto Jazz Festival last year and came across as a pretty mainstream big band, nothing more or less. The group's 20th anniversary set on Verve also left me cold. Perhaps the VAO has degenerated since the sets below were cut, but the praise garnered seemed to be no more than Euro-envy. Just because the group hails from Austria and has soloists with "foreign" names seems to blind folks that they're hearing a European run-through of The Boss Brass or the Vanguard Ork. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Dave Lechtenberg wrote: > > 6038 VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / CONCERTO PICCOLO > > 6073 VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / FROM NO TIME TO RAG TIME > > These are both great. If you like avant big band stuff similar > to Willem Breuker Kollektief, you'll love VAO. In fact, I like > VAO better than WBK. I find VAO stuff to be more sharply > executed than WBK (particularly No Time To Rag Time) and > avoids some the sappiness of WBK. > > -Dave > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cwestpha@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Westphal) Subject: Re: the Ruins in Philadelphia Date: 24 Jun 1999 10:13:40 -0700 Does anyone have any other Ruins dates? I live near San Francisco and would love to see them. If you're in the area, this Fri/Sat the Boredoms are playing at Slim's. See you there. - Chris At 07:52 PM 6/23/99 GMT, Igor Sombillo wrote: >For fans of the Boredoms, the Ruins from Japan are playing a show in >Philadelphia with the underground grindcore band Discordance Axis from NJ. >The show will start at 7PM and will only cost $5, the place is a haven for >many underground punk/hardcore/grindcore bands. > >The Ruins released a CD in 1995 on Zorn's Tzadik label. They have been >described as a mixture of jazz, noise, metal, funk, prog rock, etc. They >have also worked with Derek Bailey and released a CD as Derek & the Ruins on >Tzadik. > >Anyway, they are playing on July 15th at Stalag13 in Philly. For info or >directions check their website and get in touch with one of the person in >charge. http://members.xoom.com/stalag13/ > >IF you want to hear samples check CDnow. > >Later, >ITS > >You like grind? hardcore? death metal? then go Visit the Wall of Death >Picture page @: http://members.xoom.com/hamog/ > >Here's the Human Remains Page: >http://members.xoom.com/hamog/hremains/ > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >- > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com> Subject: CDs FT Date: 24 Jun 1999 11:35:30 -0700 Hello folks, Just a quick list of stuff I'd like to trade (just send your trade lists to my email address at sunny70@sirius.com): - The Ghost Orchid: An Introduction to Electronic Voice Phenomena (played three times; near-mint condition; probably the most literally otherworldly disc you'll ever hear. Comes with a thick 23-page booklet, and would look great on the shelf next to your Conet Project CDs) - Matthew Shipp Duo with William Parker: DNA (practically brand-new; a little too abstract for improv newbies like me, though I'm told it's the most accessible of his duo work) - Veruca Salt: American Thighs (ok, maybe no takers for that one; I'll understand) - Paul Dolden: L'Ivresse de la Vitesse (the older pressing of the double cd, Empreintes Digitales, 1994) NOTE: I stupidly, stupidly, accidentally placed one of the Dolden CDs data-side-down on a surface with the remains of a price sticker on it. A very small bit of the glue stuck onto the CD, rendering less than a minute of the last track unplayable. Since no used CD store will ever buy it from me anyway, I will throw the Dolden CDs in for *free* to anyone who takes the rest above off my hands -- hopefully you'll have better luck removing the glue (tiny marks, but pesky as heck). The little spindles (is that what they're called?) of the CD case are broken, too... Again, priority will be given to anyone who can take *all of them* out of my hands (and with a nice list of stuff for trade, of course). Traders based in the US only, please. And you can check out some of my eBay feedback (doesn't pertain to trading, I know, but...): http://cgi-new.ebay.com/aboutme/thewilyfilipino/ Later, Ben http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Lankin <lankina@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: new Dave Douglas Date: 24 Jun 1999 21:15:32 -0400 "J.T. de Boer" wrote: > > Hi all, > > some time ago someone on the list mentioned a new Dave Douglas album > on Winter & Winter, and asked if the European members already got > hold of it. Well, I'm happy to say I bought it a few days ago and > it's absolutely beautiful! I've heard that it's supposed to be out in the U.S. in Augusts. I'm looking forward to hearing it. Alan http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz/upcomingcds.html -- Alan Lankin lankina@att.net http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net> Subject: KVD/MacArthur Date: 24 Jun 1999 21:29:42 -0400 In case anyone here's not heard (those z-listers who don't lurk at rmb), Ken Vandermark has been given a MacArthur grant, the so-called "genius" grant that's previously been accorded to, in the jazz communtiy, Cecil, Braxton, Max Roach, Ornette and Lacy. The award is for something over $250,00 and comes with no strings attached. Great news, imo; one very deserving fella. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Lechtenberg <dlkk@verinet.com> Subject: Re: VAO Date: 24 Jun 1999 20:39:56 -0500 Ken Waxman wrote: > > Here I have to weigh in with an opposite comment. I haven't heard the two > CDs referred to, but the VAO, is vastly overrated IMHO. The band played a > showcase show at the Toronto Jazz Festival last year and came across as a > pretty mainstream big band, nothing more or less. The group's 20th > anniversary set on Verve also left me cold. Perhaps the VAO has > degenerated since the sets below were cut, but the praise garnered seemed > to be no more than Euro-envy. > The only VAO albums that I have are the two Hat Arts I mentioned plus Blues For Brahms. All recorded over 10 years ago. I haven't heard anything more recent from them so I can't say if they've degenerated, but I wouldn't call any of the three that I have mainstream. For instance, From No Time To Rag Time has variations on pieces by Anthony Braxton, Ornette Coleman and Roswell Rudd. Not your usual mainstream fare. Nor is Lauren Newton a traditional jazz vocalist. VAO stuff is more composed than say London Jazz Composer's Orchestra so if you like your big band to be more freely improvised, then I can see where you're coming from. > Just because the group hails from Austria and has soloists with "foreign" > names seems to blind folks that they're hearing a European run-through of > The Boss Brass or the Vanguard Ork. > > Ken Waxman > cj649@torfree.net > > On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Dave Lechtenberg wrote: > > > > 6038 VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / CONCERTO PICCOLO > > > 6073 VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / FROM NO TIME TO RAG TIME > > > > These are both great. If you like avant big band stuff similar > > to Willem Breuker Kollektief, you'll love VAO. In fact, I like > > VAO better than WBK. I find VAO stuff to be more sharply > > executed than WBK (particularly No Time To Rag Time) and > > avoids some the sappiness of WBK. > > > > -Dave > > > > - > > > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: KVD/MacArthur Date: 25 Jun 1999 00:41:17 -0400 Brian Olewnick wrote: > > In case anyone here's not heard (those z-listers who don't lurk at rmb), > Ken Vandermark has been given a MacArthur grant, the so-called "genius" > grant that's previously been accorded to, in the jazz communtiy, Cecil, > Braxton, Max Roach, Ornette and Lacy. The award is for something over > $250,00 and comes with no strings attached. Great news, imo; one very > deserving fella. > > Brian Olewnick > > - He's doing OK--and his wife's a doctor, to boot. Oh yeah, I think you meant over $250,000; otherwise it has only prestige value. :-) --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Re: VAO Date: 25 Jun 1999 08:20:09 -0400 Ken Waxman wrote: > Here I have to weigh in with an opposite comment. I haven't heard the two > CDs referred to, but the VAO, is vastly overrated IMHO. The band played a > showcase show at the Toronto Jazz Festival last year and came across as a > pretty mainstream big band, nothing more or less. The group's 20th > anniversary set on Verve also left me cold. Perhaps the VAO has > degenerated since the sets below were cut, but the praise garnered seemed > to be no more than Euro-envy. Well, as a matter of fact, the band has degenerated over the last ten years or so. I have all of their recordings except the discarded 20th Anniversary (bad) and the recent Gershwin (worse). Their HatArt's are all terrific, as is their output on Moers and on Amadeo. The Verve catalog is the weak material, and marks the slide downward. The band changed personel drastically during their Verve stay, and did become more mainstream. I suppose it would have been difficult to keep so many high quality players together over a twenty year period, but Mr. Reugg is to be commended for the many fine albums that the band produced. IMHO, much superior to the Breuker output. On a par with another excellent Euro-bigband, the Pierre Dorge New Jungle Orchestra. They are still active, too, but have, like the VAO, slid from their best work. Alan E Kayser > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: VAO Date: 25 Jun 1999 09:28:51 -0500 Alan Kayser wrote: >...but Mr. Reugg is to be commended for the >many fine albums that the band produced. IMHO, much superior to the Breuker >output. On a par with another excellent Euro-bigband, the Pierre Dorge New >Jungle Orchestra. They are still active, too, but have, like the VAO, slid >from their best work. While I agree that all of these bands are long past their prime periods, I have to put in at least a wee defense of WBK. Their recorded output up to the late 80's (circa 'Metropolis') imho easily outshines that of other large bands in that general category, ie, groups using diverse influences (including humor and European musical traditions) to showcase more-or-less free soloists. A couple of their albums, 'Live in Holland' and 'Dreibergen-Zeist' (both on BVHaast) are, again, imho, two of the finest jazz releases from the 80's. That being said, their recordings over the last ten years or so have been (largely) clunky affairs with some brighter spots (much of 'Sensemaya', a few minutes of the recent 'Pakkepappen'). But I'd also have to say that live, at least in NYC performances in recent years, they still put on an exciting show. Yeah, the shtick gets old and some of the arrangements are a bit stultified, but the band still boasts some great players including, perhaps, the two best trumpeters that no one knows about, Boy Raaymakers and Andy Altenfelder as well as the extraordinary bassist, Arjen Gorter. That ponderous quality seems to afflict many once-promising large ensembles, including those Alan mentioned, as well as Vesala's band and others, at least on recording. Perhaps it's a different story live, but I get the impression that the art of arranging is an increasingly lost one. Few of these bands soar or groove with Ellingtonian or Mingusian (or Sy Oliverian!) ease. Except....Barry Guy's LJCO. For me, _that's_ the large ensemble that matters these days. I'm sure there are others around, toiling in obscurity; nominees welcomed. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: KVD/MacArthur Date: 25 Jun 1999 10:54:45 -0400 (EDT) 265,000 clams (U.S.), which ain't hay. You might be interested to know that over in Chicago angry e-mails are going back and forth because soem folks don't feel Ken "deserves" the $$$. I too could thinbk of many other deservinbg people besides Ken, but heck, at least someone in the "out" community got the kale. Hopefully he'll use it to promote the music even more than he does now. (Hope, though, that he doesn't want to write an "opera" or "string quartet" -- see WMarsalis). Ken Waxman ccj649@torfree.net On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Mike Chamberlain wrote: > Brian Olewnick wrote: > > > > In case anyone here's not heard (those z-listers who don't lurk at rmb), > > Ken Vandermark has been given a MacArthur grant > > He's doing OK--and his wife's a doctor, to boot. Oh yeah, I think you > meant over $250,000; otherwise it has only prestige value. :-) > > --Mike > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob Allaert" <rob.allaert@charity.nu> Subject: John Zorn: The String Quartets Date: 25 Jun 1999 22:04:54 +0200 Finally some news about Zorn. I'm sure a lot of you (who surf to Tzadik) were already aware of this but I never read anything about on the Zorn li= st. Anyway, here it is: John Zorn: The String Quartets At last all four of Zorn=92s infamous compositions for string quartet are available on CD! Originally commissioned by the world-renown Kronos Quart= et, three of these pieces are recorded here for the first time. From the cartoon/montage qualities of the popular "Cat O=92Nine Tails," to the S/M poetry of "The Dead Man," the hermetic philosophy of "Memento Mori" and t= he spiritual transcendence of "Kol Nidre," these four quartets take on and challenge the tradition of classical string quartets from Beethoven, Bart= =F3k, Webern, Carter and Ferneyhough, forging an exciting new world of their ow= n. Performed by an exciting new quartet of Zorn veterans and new music virtuosos, Zorn=92s unique compositional voice shines like never before. Track listing: 1. Cat o'nine tails Composed by John Zorn with Mark Feldman, Erik Friedlander, Joyce Hammann, Lois Martin 2. The Dead Man Composed by John Zorn with Mark Feldman, Erik Friedlander, Joyce Hammann, Lois Martin 3. Memento Mori Composed by John Zorn with Mark Feldman, Erik Friedlander, Joyce Hammann, Lois Martin 4. Kol Nidre Composed by John Zorn with Mark Feldman, Erik Friedlander, Joyce Hammann, Lois Martin Release date: July 20,1999 Rob Allaert rob@charity.nu ICQ #18906168 =A0 Buy a nice book or CD and support me! Follow this link to FrontStage and I will get a special bonus on all your orders. I recommend FrontStage, visit them soon. Thanks! http://friends.frontstage.com/?13772 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob Allaert" <rob.allaert@charity.nu> Subject: Masada in Belgium Date: 25 Jun 1999 22:05:30 +0200 Hi JazZorns, I'm the luckiest man alive. Masada will be playing in Belgium. Now I wond= er what Masada line-up it will be? Will it be Zorn, Douglas, Cohen and Baron= or is this impossible? Any Comments ? Rob Allaert rob@charity.nu ICQ #18906168 =A0 Buy a nice book or CD and support me! Follow this link to FrontStage and I will get a special bonus on all your orders. I recommend FrontStage, visit them soon. Thanks! http://friends.frontstage.com/?13772 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Lankin <lankina@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: KVD/MacArthur Date: 25 Jun 1999 21:11:05 -0400 Ken Waxman wrote: > > 265,000 clams (U.S.), which ain't hay. You might be interested to know > that over in Chicago angry e-mails are going back and forth because soem > folks don't feel Ken "deserves" the $$$. > > I too could thinbk of many other deservinbg people besides Ken, but heck, > at least someone in the "out" community got the kale. Hopefully he'll use > it to promote the music even more than he does now. (Hope, though, that he > doesn't want to write an "opera" or "string quartet" -- see WMarsalis). > I don't think he's exactly loaded. The Vandermark 5 has been on ae 16-cities-in-16 days tour. I heard the group in Philly last Friday (great concert) & Ken was talking about sleeping on somebody's floor. Perhaps he can get a hotel room for his next tour. In an interview, he said he felt underserving compared to be in the same company of other award winners & that he was still learning. I'm cheered by his show of humility. As for plans, he mentioned trying to get a U.S. tour of the Brotzmann tentet & being able to get more material released on Okkadisk (in which he has no financial stake, evidentally). There are others also deserving of this grant, but it's nice that someone got it. Alan http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz/newjazz.html -- Alan Lankin lankina@att.net http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Lechtenberg <dlkk@verinet.com> Subject: Re: VAO/Pierre Dorge Date: 25 Jun 1999 20:58:51 -0500 Alan E Kayser wrote: > I suppose it would have been difficult to keep so many high quality players > together over a twenty year period, but Mr. Reugg is to be commended for the > many fine albums that the band produced. IMHO, much superior to the Breuker > output. On a par with another excellent Euro-bigband, the Pierre Dorge New > Jungle Orchestra. They are still active, too, but have, like the VAO, slid > from their best work. > I'll second the good word for Pierre Dorge's New Jungle Orchestra. They're a bit different than VAO and WBK because of the strong African element. Very upbeat and joyous. Johnny Dyani plays on the early albums. Anyone interested in African flavored jazz should give them a try. Anyone else notice that the 4th edition Penguin Guide gives only 3 stars to Dorge's Brikama even though 2nd edition gave 4 stars? (Don't know about the 3rd edition since I don't have it.) Seems like a typo to me. It's a 4 star recording in my opinion. Find it if you can. Steeplechase stuff is hard to find these days... -Dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Aaron Chee-Kean Chua <a.chua@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au> Subject: re:$4.95 cds Date: 26 Jun 1999 16:47:22 +1000 (EST) tried to log on to the site today. does anyone know if they have discontinued their offer? i couldn't even find any of cds from earlier visits to the site at regular prices. aaron - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVID THOMAS <151811@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: small sale (UK) Date: 26 Jun 1999 09:46:58 +0100 some things for sale ( due to cd prices in the US being cheaper than Europe, not much point in selling outside the UK/Europe..) Braxton - Four comps, quartet 1995 - =A39 Istanbul, sextet 1996 (2 x cd) - =A315 MMW - Combustication - =A38 Open Loose - Come Ahead Back (Eskelin, Helias, Rainey) -=A38 prices include postage...thanks. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Saidel <saidel@usl.edu> Subject: Re: $4.95 cds Date: 26 Jun 1999 07:12:42 -0500 > tried to log on to the site today. does anyone know if they have > discontinued their offer? i couldn't even find any of cds from earlier > visits to the site at regular prices. > > aaron > Bad news I fear. I called their customer service and was told that they're out of stock on many items and for others the price has changed. Oh well, we knew this wouldn't last. They weren't very helpful about what would happen orders as yet unfilled. My guess is that if you've ordered and they haven't shipped it yet (a boat I'm in), then you won't be getting your cds. Keep an eye on those credit card charges! - eric - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: VAO Date: 26 Jun 1999 08:38:39 -0400 At 09:28 AM 6/25/99 -0500, brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > >Except....Barry Guy's LJCO. For me, _that's_ the large ensemble that matters >these days. I'm sure there are others around, toiling in obscurity; nominees >welcomed. I like the LJCO, but I'd nominate Chris Burns' Ensemble, whose recent album on Acta is superb; and the ICP Orchestra, whose arrangements of Ellington pieces are excellent. I also like the King Ubu Orchestra disk a lot, are they still active? And I hear good things about the Italian Instabile Orchestra and the Berlin Contemporary Jazz Orchestra. And what about the Brotz tentet? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net> Subject: Re: VAO Date: 26 Jun 1999 11:07:45 -0400 Caleb T. Deupree wrote: > I like the LJCO, but I'd nominate Chris Burns' Ensemble, whose recent album > on Acta is superb; Caleb--could you give a brief description of this? Always meant to give his ensemble a listen but, of course, haven't gotten there yet. > and the ICP Orchestra, whose arrangements of Ellington > pieces are excellent. The one I have, 'Bospaadje' (sp?), I'm not too crazy about. Gets back to the arrangements, a frequent problem I have with large avant-garde ensembles. There's too often a (take your pick) thinness, stridency or shrillness to my ears. Now, in some cases this may be intentional but in many examples, I'm fairly sure the arranger was going for a semi-traditional sound but falling short. That's one of the aspects of Guy's ensemble I most enjoy, the extreme richness and depth of his sound. But maybe I just haven't heard the right ICP stuff yet. > And what about the > Brotz tentet? Of course, but one has to draw the "large ensemble" line somewhere! Gotta get herr Brotz to add Van Hove and his son, then they might qualify. ;-) BTW, any news on jungen Caspar's activity lately? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: VAO etc. Date: 26 Jun 1999 13:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Here I have to take issue again. Yes, yes, the Brotzmann tentet (and octet) is great. Run out and get the 3-CD set on Okka disk. Ditto the Italian IO. It has a great 2-CD set on Leo. But, as much as I like the individual players in Chris Burns' Ensemble, I find the end product both precious and airy. I saw the band at Victo in 1998 and have the CD, but feel the group could use a dose of steroids or maybe an alarm clock. My humble opinion, of course. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Caleb T. Deupree wrote: > I like the LJCO, but I'd nominate Chris Burns' Ensemble, whose recent album > on Acta is superb; and the ICP Orchestra, whose arrangements of Ellington > pieces are excellent. I also like the King Ubu Orchestra disk a lot, are > they still active? And I hear good things about the Italian Instabile -Orchestra and the Berlin Contemporary Jazz Orchestra. And what about the > Brotz tentet? > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: VAO etc. Date: 26 Jun 1999 15:45:14 -0400 At 01:25 PM 6/26/99 -0400, Ken Waxman wrote: > >But, as much as I like the individual players in Chris Burns' Ensemble, I >find the end product both precious and airy. I saw the band at Victo in >1998 and have the CD, but feel the group could use a dose of steroids or >maybe an alarm clock. My humble opinion, of course. I'll admit they don't play the same kind of music as, say, LJCO. The traditions of what we'd call 'big band music' is much less in the Ensemble, and in that sense it's closer to King Ubu, or perhaps some of the experimental classical music of Stockhausen (or even Zorn's game pieces). What Ken speaks of as 'precious and airy' I hear as textured and delicate. As I think about it, there are a lot of ensembles like this, including Butch Morris' conductions as well as some of Maarten Altena's larger groups, where collective improvisation counts for as much as ensemble-solo-ensemble. For more traditional-type arranging, how about some of Carla Bley's outfits, including the terrific Liberation Music Orchestra she's done with Charlie Haden? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Chris Burn Ensemble Date: 26 Jun 1999 16:05:02 EDT In a message dated 6/26/99 3:40:56 PM, cdeupree@erinet.com writes: << The traditions of what we'd call 'big band music' is much less in the Ensemble, and in that sense it's closer to King Ubu, or perhaps some of the experimental classical music of Stockhausen (or even Zorn's game pieces). What Ken speaks of as 'precious and airy' I hear as textured and delicate. >> I think they're closer to textured and delicate also, at least on record, but I wouldn't have minded seeing some espresso shots passed around the band before their 1998 Victo show. I'd like to mention Simon Fell's Composition No. 30 (Bruce's Fingers) for the umpteenth time as an example of a composer who's doing something new and interesting with a larger ensemble. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "johnrust" <johnrust@blinx.de> Subject: Zorn in Europe Date: 27 Jun 1999 09:53:18 +0200 Havin' no opportunity to go neither to Poland nor to Belgium to see Zorn I would like to ask everyone who knows anything about his other european appearences (if any). So far I haven't seen any comments on this in German press. Please please don't let miss another chance!... (although I don't know if there is one....:( ) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sushi <fishes@uswest.net> Subject: cortex bomb Date: 27 Jun 1999 02:39:08 -0700 Hello Zornphiles, we are a quintet from tucson sometimes compared to naked cities/bungle blah blah whatever. Anyhow we have a cd available next week (contact me if interested) and some free mp3 files for you to sample on our website. buenos dias, Richard Swelling/ 6strung electrick bassbomber http://www.mockbrawn.com/bands/cortex/ btw- any of you with a chance to see ruins will kick yerself silly if you miss that show...shit i'll kick you silly if you miss that, i live in tucson, no one comes here ever dammit. (zeni geva 1994?) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: Masada live in Warsaw, Poland Date: 27 Jun 1999 21:10:01 +0200 Hi Philozorners! Last Friday Masada was performing at Warsaw Summer Jazz Days Festival in Poland. Actually, this were three Masadas playing: MASADA STRING TRIO: Greg COHEN: bass Mark FELDMAN: violin Erik FRIEDLANDER: cello John ZORN: conductor MASADA - BAR KOKHBA: Cyro BAPTISTA: percussion Joey BARON: drums Greg COHEN: bass Mark FELDMAN: violin Erik FRIEDLANDER: cello Marc RIBOT: guitar John ZORN: conductor MASADA QUARTET: Joey BARON: drums Greg COHEN: bass Dave DOUGLAS: trumpet John ZORN: alto The show started at 19:00 and after two 15 minutes breaks between each band it ended at 23:00. This show was absolutely amazing. I saw Masada for the first time in my life, but I know the band quite well, I have all DIW albums, Tzadik Chamber Masadas and quite few live recordings of Masada Quartet. I must say, that this was the best show I ever saw. Not only the music was beatifull, but Zorn and the band were great. He was in a very good mood, he said "fuck off" to the photographers and "we are fucking Jews from New York" he was ready to go, very concentrated. He was enjoying the String Trio playing, he was sitting on the stage right afront of them, making signals, and laughing to Feldman, Friedlander and Cohen. I was in the third row, almost right behind his shoulders, so I could see the three paying musicians looking at him and looking for hints. I could also see the TV monitor screen on the side (whole show was recorded and will be transmitted this Monday) showing Zorn form the front - this was I could see whole communication between them. Zorn was smiling a lot showing "OK" to the musicians after their solos, swinging his head to the subtle rhythm. After few minutes I could understand the signs he was giving with the hands - when to play solo, come back to the main theme, or use pizicato. Watching it happening was an incredible expirience. The music was passionate and beautifull. The second set added some more heat, they were playing "The Circle Maker" songs in the order of the CD (if my memory serves). Joey Baron was lauging to Zorn all the time, after one of Ribot's solos (Marc was playing the day before with the Cubason Postizos) Zorn was shaking his hand, and you could see the message on his face "this was good Marc, very good". Feldman and Friedlander gave few amazing duets - dialogues, I could swear they were reading each others mind and intentions. Baron was wild, lauging, giving a lot of positive energy to Zorn and the people on the audience. I never saw anybody playing with such pleasure. Cohen ("the man of the night" Zorn said, he was playing all sets through) was the foundation of the band. After the encore ("we gonna play some sephardic surf music for you"), Zorn was hugging them all. It was a kind of "Masada reunion" - they have extreme pleasure of playing together again. And then was the "brass Masada", with Douglas. They played for almost an hour and this hour passed like 10 minutes to me. Only known songs, but they rocked! Baron gave few wild solos, Douglas was playing from this memory all the time, after his solos, at the end of the song Zorn has hugging and kissing (!) him, saying something to his ear, and both were laughing. The audience was full and Masada gave one encore. People were clapping their hands (and kicking the sits) again, so Zorn brought all the musicians to the stage, asking for applause for each individually. Unfortunately, they were too tired to play one more encore. Me and my friends were extatic, the way they played just smashed us. The music is well known to us form the records, but the energy and passion for the music they had was absolutely unbelievable. __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno AT emd.pl] www.emd.pl - Discography of Bill Frisell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: ruins Date: 27 Jun 1999 17:00:18 -0500 >Are the Ruins the same as the Pencilneck Ruins? I have every Tatsuya Yoshida record I've ever come across (which is a fair number, including some all-Tatsuya comps), so I'll venture to guess No. But he has done some combo projects, like Ruins Hatoba (w/Yamamoto from the Boredoms), so it could be a side project. While Tatsuya's recordings are pretty hit or miss, the Ruins live can be phenomenal. I really like the first 2 Tzadik releases (Ruins and Derek + the Ruins), but the 3d, Symphonica, was far too proggy for me (and I'm learning to be tolerant of that stuff!). Some of the recordings are so lo-fi (seemingly intentionally so) that they're hard to listen to. Live, however, this is a breakneck duo with the precision and depth of Naked City's "rock" stuff, all from just a bass and a drum set. They'll be playing at Tonic in early July. Last time I saw them, Arto was standing alone in the back shaking his head and saying "Fucking amazing" over and over. Do go. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "brazen stupidity" <angyr-@geocities.com> Subject: Jazz with Electronics Date: 27 Jun 1999 20:27:58 -0400 Howdy, Yesterday I went to a show by the band "erg" (from St. Petersbug, FL I think.) They played some nice textural pieces, but the thing that I really dug was their use of live electronic processing while improvising. So, does anyone have any recommendations for improv with live electronic processing? Thanx! (out), Nirav -- "Don't try to make me consistent. I am learning all the time." - R. Buckminster Fuller - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: VAO etc. Date: 28 Jun 1999 04:35:22 EDT In a message dated 6/26/99 3:40:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cdeupree@erinet.com writes: << For more traditional-type arranging, how about some of Carla Bley's outfits, including the terrific Liberation Music Orchestra she's done with Charlie Haden? >> Carla Bley- one of my absolute faves. Is it safe to say that Americans take her for granted because she is...American? =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Jazz with Electronics Date: 28 Jun 1999 15:04:13 GMT >So, does >anyone have any recommendations for improv with live electronic processing? > I'd like to chime in once more about the two albums by the Evan Parker Electroacoustic Ensemble, TOWARD THE MARGINS and DRAWN INWARD. I've only listened to INWARD once, but I find it a rougher ride and (I'm tempted to say _subsequently_) more enjoyable. The Parker LIVE AT INSTANTS CHAVIRES (w/ Lawrence Casserley et al) is also pretty great. But the real kicker, IMHO, is the duo between EP and LC, SOLAR WIND. Wow. Actually, I only managed to hear about half the record; still need to buy it. Pretty dense stuff. If anything tops that, I really need to know about it. Check the archives for great electronic music and "electronica" (I'll be a snob and differentiate, for the moment) threads, I believe within the past year-and-a-half. -----s _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Chris Burn Ensemble Date: 28 Jun 1999 08:26:34 -0700 On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 16:05:02 EDT JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 6/26/99 3:40:56 PM, cdeupree@erinet.com writes: > > << The traditions of what we'd call 'big band music' is much less in the > Ensemble, > and in that sense it's closer to King Ubu, or perhaps some of the > experimental classical music of Stockhausen (or even Zorn's game pieces). > What Ken speaks of as 'precious and airy' I hear as textured and delicate. >> > > I think they're closer to textured and delicate also, at least on record, but > I wouldn't have minded seeing some espresso shots passed around the band > before their 1998 Victo show. My impression of the concert was that John Butcher was carrying the whole performance on his shoulders. It was free improv at its most abstract level (makes almost Derek Bailey sound poppy).. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: New Cibo Matto Date: 28 Jun 1999 10:10:55 -0700 Since nobody answered, I will. On Tue, 22 Jun 99 16:38:39 -0300 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: > > By the way, what about the new Cibo Matto? Are Josh Roseman and Dave > Douglas playing? Opinions? Yes, they play on it. 108 - STEREOTYPE A: Cibo Matto Recorded at Magic Shop, Sear Sound, and Studio 4 Produced by Yuka Honda with Cibo Matto Miho Hatori: vocals, shaker, acoustic guitar; Yuka Honda: sampler, sequen- cer, organ, piano, electric piano, synthesizer, harpsichord, vocoder, vo- cals; Sean Lennon: electric bass, synthesizer bass, drums, guitars, percus- sion, synthesizer, vocoder, vocals, delay pedal; Timo Ellis: drums, bass, vocals, guitars, cymbal, slamming door; Duma Love: vocals, percussion, beat box, turntable; Marc Ribot: guitars; Dave Douglas: trumpet; Curtis Fowlkes: trombone; Josh Roseman: trombone; Dougie Bowne: hi-hat, cymbals; Sebastian Steinberg: bass; Yumiko Ohno: Moog, backup vocals; Vinia Mojica: backup vocals; Sequoia: backup vocals; Smokey Hormel: guitar; John Medeski: clavi- net; Billy Martin: percussion. 1999 - Warner Bros. (USA), 9 47345-2 (CD) I was initially worried about it because many of the first reviewers did not like it (e-pulse! for example). I guess they were expecting the same impact as VIVA! LA WOMAN. The record is quite enjoyable and varied (they even wander in the R&B field). Catchy, poppy and a lot of fun. If you liked VIVA! LA WOMAN you should be at home with that one. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Witt <mwitt@schilli.com> Subject: Critters Bug Zorn in Warsaw Date: 28 Jun 1999 12:39:40 -0500 The first thing that Zorn did when he took the stage at the Warsaw Summer Jazz Days on Friday was yell into the mic, "We're the fucking New York Jews, motherfuckers!" The crowd responded favorably, and he started yelling at the crowd of photographers assembled at the edge of the stage, "We're not going to play one FUCKING note until these PHOTOGRAPHIC LEECHES get the FUCK out of here! We're here to play music to an audience, so get the fuck out." "Yes, you too", he heckled one lingering photographer who had bleached-blond hair, "and I don't give a fuck what color your hair is. Get the fuck out of here." If the Polish audience didn't speak much English, they certainly learned the word "fuck" that evening. What, John Zorn, arrogant? Lacking diplomacy skills? Say it ain't so. On the next night of the festival, Critters Buggin played a raging set. Towards the end of their set, the sax player ran to the edge of the stage with his mic and did a HILARIOUS parody of Zorn's antics, chasing around imaginary photographers and screaming in an exaggerated nasal accent, "Fuck you! Fuck off, photographer-man! Don't take my picture! You get the fuck out! Fuck you!" The crowd roared in laughter, and as he returned to his playing he commented, "Don't ya just hate it when Santa Claus gets grumpy at Christmas?" It was classic. --Mike mwitt@schilli.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Goldman <telly_o@softhome.net> Subject: Re: hips road summer blowout: pedagogical fantasy Date: 28 Jun 1999 12:11:57 -0500 > > Did anyone go to these? > > Marc Ribot - Guitar Question & Answer (06/17/99 3 to 5:00pm) > Elliott Sharp - Notation Systems (06/18/99 Noon to 2:00pm) > William Parker - Construction of Creative Music (06/18/99 3 to 5:00pm) > Henry Threadgill - Question & Answer (06/19/99 3 to 5:00pm) > Wadada Leo Smith - Creative Music (06/19/99 Noon to 2:00pm) > > How were they? Could anyone summarize/comment for the rest of us unlucky > enough not to be in NYC? And will anyone be able to after attending these? I went to the one w/ Joey Baron and it was quite interesting (even to this non-drummer). He talked about "theoretical stuff" like symmetric vs. assymmetric rhythm; and some practical stuff like exercises for keeping time and how to use brushes. Also he talked about his own background: ie. how he grew up poor in Richmond VA and began experimenting w/ percussion using whatever minimal instruments he had available; how he got into straight-ahead jazz and then he ended up working w/ Bill Frisell and John Zorn. Joey comes across as a really nice guy; he definitely doesn't have a star complex. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: Antenna radio Date: 28 Jun 1999 11:28:16 -0700 Hi This week's show has a few things that may be of interest to Zorn listers (Dave Slusser on Tzxadik, What We Live with Dave Douglas & Wadada Leo Smith as special guest, Michael Gordon) & in next week's show I present five Zorn compositions, primarily classical-ish pieces. <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index.htm> Hope y'all find this to be of interest. Bests, Herb Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Egan" <degan1@telisphere.com> Subject: RE: Critters Bug Zorn in Warsaw Date: 28 Jun 1999 11:58:31 -0700 That Skerik! He's such a cutup! I heard someone say once that Skerik has an anti-semetic streak, but I'm not so sure about that. Maybe the guy didn't get his sense of humor. He can be a very rude guy. In February I went to see Sex Mob here in Seattle. Zony Mash was booked to open the show. Wayne Horvitz had just come down with a HORRIBLE pneumonia, and had to bow out at the last minute. The rest of the guys were there though, and Skerik (who has MUCH more hair than Wayne) fronted the band. Skerik led off the set with the following rap: "Hi, everybody. I'm Wayne Horvitz, and this is something I like to call Zony Mash. It's a project very dear to me; it's a blast. It's something I wanted to do as soon as I got my hair back. Viagra and Rogaine is a cocktail that just can't go wrong. But makes you sick sometimes. What kind of sick? A rockin' pneumonia? Let's sing him the cure." At this point, he chants "nervous connection" for quite a while. Wayne was so sick that he cancelled the better part of two months of gigs, including a west-coast tour. Skerik is such a sweet guy sometimes. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Michael Witt Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 10:40 AM The first thing that Zorn did when he took the stage at the Warsaw Summer Jazz Days on Friday was yell into the mic, "We're the fucking New York Jews, motherfuckers!" The crowd responded favorably, and he started yelling at the crowd of photographers assembled at the edge of the stage, "We're not going to play one FUCKING note until these PHOTOGRAPHIC LEECHES get the FUCK out of here! We're here to play music to an audience, so get the fuck out." "Yes, you too", he heckled one lingering photographer who had bleached-blond hair, "and I don't give a fuck what color your hair is. Get the fuck out of here." If the Polish audience didn't speak much English, they certainly learned the word "fuck" that evening. What, John Zorn, arrogant? Lacking diplomacy skills? Say it ain't so. On the next night of the festival, Critters Buggin played a raging set. Towards the end of their set, the sax player ran to the edge of the stage with his mic and did a HILARIOUS parody of Zorn's antics, chasing around imaginary photographers and screaming in an exaggerated nasal accent, "Fuck you! Fuck off, photographer-man! Don't take my picture! You get the fuck out! Fuck you!" The crowd roared in laughter, and as he returned to his playing he commented, "Don't ya just hate it when Santa Claus gets grumpy at Christmas?" It was classic. --Mike mwitt@schilli.com - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott" <scott@burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: White Noise Update Date: 28 Jun 1999 20:38:03 +0100 Just for info, I've just updated White Noise with some goof news for fans of John Fahey and Derek Bailey amongst other things. Check it out at the url below. White Noise For experimental events in Scotland http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk Weird Music for sale and exchange at http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk/list.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com> Subject: | cheap cd site question | Date: 28 Jun 1999 16:49:34 -0800 Has anyone gotten in touch with www.myshopnow.com about that 4.99 per cd deal? Has anyone recieved their cds? Has anyone gotten any e-mail confirmation from them? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: aporias Date: 28 Jun 1999 20:03:25 EDT Anyone know who did the cover art for Aporias? from, matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Nick Tosches, Rene Ricard, Mike DeCapite reading (R. Hell the Date: 28 Jun 1999 23:10:28 -0400 My apologies if this is way off topic for this list. J >READING CELEBRATING FOUR NEW CUZ EDITIONS BOOKS (all books available at >reading) > >This Tuesday, June 29, 9:00 p.m., at Manitoba's bar (982-2511), 99 Ave. "B" >(betw. 6th & 7th Sts.) >see and hear: > >NICK TOSCHES >peerless cartographer of underworlds: novelist (CUT NUMBERS, TRINITIES), >nonfictionist (HELLFIRE, DINO), etc., and now poet, reading from >CHALDEA--and I DIG GIRLS--, his new CUZ book of poems + 1 story > >RENE RICARD >notorious poet, legendary art critic, and all around aesthetic arbiter, >author of GOD WITH REVOLVER, RENE RICARD (1979-1980), and TRUSTY >SARCOPHAGUS CO., reading from his new CUZ Editions volume--with drawings by >Robt. Hawkins--LOVE POEMS > >MICHAEL DECAPITE >grapevine literary hero, author of the new novel THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD >(recipient of insane rave in this weekend's SF CHRONICLE book review >section), reading from his hilarious and heart-shaking new CUZ Editions >short story, SITTING PRETTY > >HOSTED BY RICHARD HELL >Editor of CUZ Editions > >ADMISSION: $5.00 > >The 4th new CUZ Editions volume is LASSITUDES OF FIRE--dreams, mutterings, >delerium, and deep love notes by WILL PATTON, the multi-Obie award winning >actor (many Sam Shepard theater roles, films such as NO WAY OUT, >ARMAGEDDON...), but Will's in CA making a movie and won't be able to appear > >and check the CUZ Editions webpages at http://www.richardhell.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Martens <ericmartens@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: aporias Date: 28 Jun 1999 21:25:32 -0700 (PDT) --- Orangejazz@aol.com wrote: > Anyone know who did the cover art for Aporias? It's a painting by Francis Bacon ... not an artist I'm particularly familiar with ... there was a movie about him came out last year, "Love is the Devil," I think it was called ... Eric === Free music (more forthcoming): http://www.mp3.com/discodown http://www.riffage.com/Bands/1,2939,828,00.html http://www.mp3.com/NoiseintheNetComp _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Jazz with Electronics Date: 29 Jun 1999 06:17:51 -0400 At 08:27 PM 6/27/99 -0400, brazen stupidity wrote: >Howdy, > >Yesterday I went to a show by the band "erg" (from St. Petersbug, FL I >think.) They played some nice textural pieces, but the thing that I really >dug was their use of live electronic processing while improvising. So, does >anyone have any recommendations for improv with live electronic processing? Someone already pointed out Evan Parker's EA Ensemble as the current canonical example of this kind of improv. Stockhausen did some work in this area with pieces like Mikrophonie and Mixtur, but you'll have to dig really hard (or find a good library) to locate these (unless you have all kinds of disposable income and want to buy a CD directly from the man himself). For some borderline cases, jazz with electronics but not necessarily processing the other instruments, I'd recommend the King Ubu Orchestra (featuring Georg Katzer on computer and electronics, he did a couple of excellent electroacoustic pieces on ReR) CD on FMP, Polwechsel (Hat), Supersilent (Rune Grammofon), Ossatura with Tim Hodgkinson (ReR), Morphogenesis (various labels) and Chris Burns' Ensemble (Acta). Ossatura and Morphogenesis are not really jazz, but definitely improv. BTW, anyone heard Polwechsel 2? Comments? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing. There is more than one way to conquer a country. -- Raymond Chandler - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: RE: Critters Bug Zorn in Warsaw Date: 29 Jun 1999 15:04:46 +0200 > If the Polish audience didn't speak much English, they certainly > learned the > word "fuck" that evening. What, John Zorn, arrogant? Lacking diplomacy > skills? Say it ain't so. I have HUGE discussion now on polish usenet with some peope, who think, that Zorn was rude and arrogrant. I was happy, that he kicked off the photographers and the show was fully concentrated on music. Yesterday I was i Cracow at the Jewish Art Festival to see Anthony Coleman's Sephardic Tinge. The show was very quiet and beautifull, but one photographer was behind the curtains making pictures with flashlight. I wanted to quote Zorn! When Anthony played at the edge of silence you could hear him breathing, but this photographer entered the stage and was making pictures of something BEHIND the stage. His camera was making louder noise thank the band was playing! Therefore I was glad to be the man who told Zorn how to say "fuck off" in polish - "spierdalac". And Zorn amazed me once again, because he repeated this word to the photo-guys with perfect accent! He has an incredible ear ;-) I could not stand Critters the whole show. It was just too loud. So I missed the Zorn parody, but I can imagine Skerik (the sax player) doing it. He was very energetic. But, some other people here think that he was rude too! We, polish people, need some more english lessons. And we don't get the humor too. Regards __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno AT emd.pl] www.emd.pl - Discography of Bill Frisell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: Jazz with Electronics Date: 29 Jun 1999 10:06:25 -0400 At 08:27 PM 6/27/99 -0400, brazen stupidity wrote: >Yesterday I went to a show by the band "erg" (from St. Petersbug, FL I >think.) They played some nice textural pieces, but the thing that I really >dug was their use of live electronic processing while improvising. So, does >anyone have any recommendations for improv with live electronic processing? If you don't mind a moment of blatant self-promotion :-)... Comma has been doing this too of late, with Tom and Matt moving between (or often simultaneously) sounding and processing in the course of improvs. (I'll inevitably start doing this too at some point, but I'm enjoying just singing and playing without also twiddling gizmos right now...) -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/~jzitt | | Latest Solo CD: Gentle Entropy http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Witt <mwitt@schilli.com> Subject: RE: Critters Bug Zorn in Warsaw Date: 29 Jun 1999 09:03:13 -0500 Artur sed: > I have HUGE discussion now on polish usenet with some peope, who think, > that > Zorn was rude and arrogrant. I was happy, that he kicked off the > photographers and the show was fully concentrated on music. Yesterday I > was > i Cracow at the Jewish Art Festival to see Anthony Coleman's Sephardic > Tinge. The show was very quiet and beautifull, but one photographer was > behind the curtains making pictures with flashlight. I wanted to quote > Zorn! > When Anthony played at the edge of silence you could hear him breathing, > but this photographer entered the stage and was making pictures of > something > BEHIND the stage. His camera was making louder noise thank the band was > playing! Therefore I was glad to be the man who told Zorn how to say "fuck > off" in polish - "spierdalac". And Zorn amazed me once again, because he > repeated this word to the photo-guys with perfect accent! He has an > incredible ear ;-) > It takes a lot more than a couple of "fuck yous" to offend me, but I'd have to agree that Zorn's antics were more than simply rude and inappropriate: they were transparent as nothing more than a contrived publicity stunt. It smacked of hypocrisy. Zorn bitched out a handful of photographers when there were no fewer than THREE men with video cameras filming the performance ON THE STAGE, a LARGE CRANE with a video camera on an EXTENDED BOOM that continually blocked the audience's line-of-sight, and at least THREE OTHER video cameras being manned from the aisles! A least SEVEN video cameras and crew members that were a hell of a lot more intrusive than a few photographers. What a load of crap! I'm glad that Skerik took Zorn to task for being such a phony. I realize that it is blasphemy to say anything bad about on Zorn on this mailing list, but that's my opinion. I have been a big fan of his music, and I was disappointed in his behavior on Friday night. I had considered Zorn to be the genuine article, but I guess it's not fair to hold the man up to the same standard as his music. Looking back, many of the best jazz musicians who made extraordinary and beautiful music were miserable human beings. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: XRedbirdxx@aol.com Subject: Re: electronics w/improv Date: 29 Jun 1999 10:15:31 EDT In a message dated 6/29/99 9:16:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << So, does >anyone have any recommendations for improv with live electronic processing? >> The sax player for the COBRA Ensemble - Cincinnati, Mike Barnhart, occassionally puts down his axe and does electronic processing on his laptop of other players in the group. It's fascinating to witness. He's officially a composer, so he has all these sophisticated sound processing programs. But god damn he is a hot player too. Gets all the sounds Zorn makes and more, and says he doesn't even listen to him. I especially love it when he ventures of into some eastern tonality during an improv. Check him (them) out if ya can. -Joseph - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john petrie <jpetrie@mail.vt.edu> Subject: Re: Jazz with Electronics Date: 29 Jun 1999 11:12:45 -0400 One of the most successful meetings of jazz and electronics (in my opinion) is George Lewis' "Homage to Charles Parker." The last track contains some of the most beautiful moments in all of jazz. Lewis has done other projects with electronics. He has a cd on Avant called "Voyager," which is an improvising computer program. I wasn't that into this record until I saw Lewis perform with the computer live. Really interesting stuff... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Jazz with Electronics Date: 29 Jun 1999 10:57:28 EDT In a message dated 6/29/99 6:18:57 AM, cdeupree@erinet.com writes: << BTW, anyone heard Polwechsel 2? Comments?>> yeah, it's pretty great. John Butcher replaces Radu Malfatti, which I was a little nervous about, but he fits in beautifully. there are no electronics on the first Polwechsel record, but Werner Dafeldecker plays them along with bass on this one. I thought it was a really nice mixture of jazz and electronics, roughly equivalent to the jazz version of Radian. it'll turn up on my favorites of 1998 list. also, while I'm kind of on the topic, I just heard Radu Malfatti's solo record on Edition Wandelweiser for the first time. it was way better than I expected. one 33 minute solo trombone piece, with lots of silences mixed in, and one 33 minute piece composed by Malfatti for string quartet, which is much more abstract than I had expected. one of the more satisfying things I've heard lately, and only $11.99 at Anomalous. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: ray anderson's pocket brass band Date: 30 Jun 1999 01:18:38 +1000 Does anyone know anything about this group? They're listed to play here (Sydney) next month and Bobby Previte and Jack Walrath are also mentioned as players. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: who is Billy Jenkins? Date: 29 Jun 1999 08:39:40 -0700 In the intro of the PENGUIN JAZZ GUIDE, this musician is mentioned next to Derek Bailey. Although the guide lists a few records by this artist, I was puzzled to see this name for the first time (maybe an indication that I should go out more often). Does anybody on the list know this musician and have recommendation? Thanks, Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch> Subject: Re: Critters Bug Zorn in Warsaw Date: 29 Jun 1999 17:39:25 +0200 hi there! i can't comment on the show in poland, because i wasn't there. but i do think i'd rather have video cameras running than photo cameras clicking. i have also always been glad when zorn told the photographers to fuck off. they always annoy me, too. > I realize that it is blasphemy to say anything bad about on Zorn on this > mailing list, but that's my opinion. don't worry about your opinion. and i really disagree that badmouthing zorn is considered blasphemy on this list. > I had considered > Zorn to be the genuine article, but I guess it's not fair to hold the man up > to the same standard as his music. Looking back, many of the best jazz > musicians who made extraordinary and beautiful music were miserable human > beings. you wouldn't do zorn justice here. i've had the great pleasure of meeting him after a gig, and he was one of the most gentle people i've ever met. lots of people had told me he seemed like an arrogant wanker to them, so i felt a bit insecure about approaching him. but he was really very nice, laidback and talkative. well, ... this is my opinion. patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@ctech.smtc.net> Subject: Re: Malfatti Date: 29 Jun 1999 12:24:10 -0400 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > also, while I'm kind of on the topic, I just heard Radu Malfatti's solo > record on Edition Wandelweiser for the first time. it was way better than I > expected. one 33 minute solo trombone piece, with lots of silences mixed in, > and one 33 minute piece composed by Malfatti for string quartet, which is > much more abstract than I had expected. one of the more satisfying things > I've heard lately, and only $11.99 at Anomalous. Yep! I was really impressed by this one too. And since there was discussion on interesting improv big bands, I would also recommend Malfatti's 'Ohrkiste' disc on ITM Classics. It consists of two long compositions with lots of improv featuring John Butcher, Melvyn Poore, Fred Van Hove, Phil Wachsmann and many others. Much more "avant-classical" sounding than the jazzier LJCO or Globe Unity and really good. I recently found a copy of Malfatti's 'Humanimal' LP on hatHut from '79 with Jerry Chardonnes and Leon Francioli, and it's super too. Malfatti is definitely deserving of much more attention, imo. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: RE: Critters Bug Zorn in Warsaw Date: 29 Jun 1999 18:57:52 +0200 > It takes a lot more than a couple of "fuck yous" to offend me, > but I'd have > to agree that Zorn's antics were more than simply rude and inappropriate: > they were transparent as nothing more than a contrived publicity > stunt. It smacked of hypocrisy. I remember that the whole issue of photographs during live shows was already discussed here, but anyway: 1. photographers make pictures for themselves, or music magazines, not for me. 2. the TV was recording the whole event and I could see it again yesterday. 3. Photographers make noise, move around the stage. 4. The TV crew was almost invisible, cameramans weren't moving at all. Only the "arm" with the camera was moving in the front or - mostly - above the musicians. 5. TV was recording not only the picture, but the music also - simple, but true. 6. Therefore you will have CDR copies of the whole show, and some of you may already have it on the way (not from me) On the other hand, you are right, I saw few other artists making themselves clear about the photographers, without using any of Zorn's words. He could say it with other words. It's interresting, that despite of what I wrote about the music in the first mail, the issue of "f-o" word is the most discussed ;-) Regards __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno AT emd.pl] www.emd.pl - Discography of Bill Frisell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@ctech.smtc.net> Subject: cummings/inaba Date: 29 Jun 1999 13:22:53 -0400 Anyone know how I might contact Alan Cummings? I'm trying to find a copy of Shuji Inaba's self-released disc on Planktone called 'Innen Kaho' - released maybe five years ago. Inaba apparently lives in rural Shimane on the Japan Sea coast of western Japan. Anyone think they can help me find this obscurity? Thanks. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Zachary J. Griffin" <zgriffin@iconn.net> Subject: Painkiller's Morning of Balachaturdasi Date: 29 Jun 1999 13:33:13 -0400 Hello, As inane as this question sounds. I have to ask it. Because I made the mistake of emailing a friend of mine with the subject heading Morning of Balachaturdasi, the Painkiller song. He wants to know what Balachaturdasi means. And I can't find an explaniation anywhere. So does anyone on this list know the meaning of the word Balachaturdasi or the phrase "Morning of Balachaturdasi"? Thank you in advance, Zach Griffin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Jazz with Electronics Date: 29 Jun 1999 12:27:57 -0400 >At 08:27 PM 6/27/99 -0400, brazen stupidity wrote: > >Howdy, > > > >Yesterday I went to a show by the band "erg" (from St. Petersbug, FL I > >think.) They played some nice textural pieces, but the thing that I really > >dug was their use of live electronic processing while improvising. So, does > >anyone have any recommendations for improv with live electronic processing? On the more mainstream side of things(at least for this group) would be Jane Ira Bloom, who's been known to employ quite a few downtown musicians. My personal favorite is drummer Joe Gallivan who made a bunch of LP's in the 70's that featured him in duo's and trios with Horn Players(Elton Dean,Kenny Wheeler,Charles Austin), playing his drums through moog synthesizers. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Critters Bug Zorn in Warsaw Date: 29 Jun 1999 17:39:52 EDT In a message dated 6/29/99 10:11:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mwitt@schilli.com writes: > It takes a lot more than a couple of "fuck yous" to offend me, but I'd have > to agree that Zorn's antics were more than simply rude and inappropriate: > they were transparent as nothing more than a contrived publicity stunt. It ~~~~~~~~~ > A least SEVEN video > cameras and crew members that were a hell of a lot more intrusive than a few > photographers. What a load of crap! I'm glad that Skerik took Zorn to task > for being such a phony. Give him the benefit of the doubt... he obviously knew the show was being video taped for TV broadcast (and was getting paid well for it I'm sure), but he probably wasnt expecting a whole bunch of photographers clicking away during what was probably some quiet music. Who knows, maybe he has something in his rider specifically stating he doesnt want photographers near the stage. > I had considered > Zorn to be the genuine article, but I guess it's not fair to hold the man up > to the same standard as his music. Looking back, many of the best jazz > musicians who made extraordinary and beautiful music were miserable human > beings. As many others can attest, he is a very nice man! Ive worked with him a couple of times (and seen him play dozens) and he is a very kind person. Very down to earth, laid back, and agreeable. Ive seen the "antics" too, so I can understand why youre thinking this way (I guess certain things just irk him)... but dont change your feelings about him based on this. If theres one thing he is, its genuine. -Jody - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeni Dahmus <jdah@loc.gov> Subject: Zorn Q&A at Tonic Date: 29 Jun 1999 17:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Did anyone attend Zorn's question and answer session at Tonic? Jeni - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: * % <nonintention@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: It's Not Just Size... + Art Date: 30 Jun 1999 14:55:59 CDT Scott Handley wrote: >Whew indeed. I suppose I could've broken 2000 by now if I didn't >have book >and film habits, but still be broke either way. This is a wanker's >question, but I know many of you ladies and gents have been collecting >avidly (for content, of course!) for many, many years: would anyone care to >mention how many pieces are in their audio collection? Excluding tapes, I >have perhaps just over a thousand LPs and CDs. Pretty small, huh? Seems >almost unmanagemable to me. > >I'm reading Delillo's UNDERWORLD, finally, and I am reminded of the brief >rash of book reviews on this list at one point last year. I enjoy that >occasionally, but was wondering if anyone cares to comment on art that has >moved and/or stimulated him/her? We've touched on this, and I feel that it >could be very Zorn-pertinent. For example, in passing I saw a photo of a >Christian Marclay (sick turntablist, for the uninitiated) sculpture the >other day, what appeared to be a huge mobius strip composed of sheets of >assembled cassette tapes. I don't a hell of a lot about art, but I'm >learning. I know I like Ceindy SHerman, for now. What's happening in art, >now? What are the issues? > >-----s, semi-topically AH> i haven't commented on anything anyone said at this zorn list thing because i am not very educated on him. but yeah, i'm in the middle of Don DeLillo's Underworld as well. quite the book. -me _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: * % <nonintention@hotmail.com> Subject: krucifly Date: 30 Jun 1999 15:28:00 CDT >Comment 2: Does anyone know anything about various types of art >specifically > surrealist...? .......krucifly um... i recommend R. Rauschenberg (and i don't care if i'm spelling his name wrong.) i also recommend the book: "Art and Physics." by Leonard Schlain. and i love surrealist art but know very little about it except that a bunch of my friends have an argument over Salvador Dahli and those people and how all surrealists were supposedly sexist women haters, which might be true or whatever but i don't know. there. -samuel yrui _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: * % <nonintention@hotmail.com> Subject: cd collections Date: 30 Jun 1999 15:36:47 CDT i live in a very small town. i am lucky to go to an arts high school during my school year, in Minneapolis... where i am exposed to much neater things that in my little town in the summer. this year i discovered John Zorn. yay. but i was just wondering. would all the people who have 1000+ please tell me how long they've been collecting and basically what's your job or whatever. are any of you college students? and if so how do you manage to afford buying so much without eating? there's been a few times where i had to choose between a cd or eating properly and i would buy the CD. silly me. and i've considered donating blood plasma once or twice a week next year to be able to afford it or whatever. -samuel yrui _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: * % <nonintention@hotmail.com> Subject: John Coltraine etc. Date: 30 Jun 1999 15:43:36 CDT >please someone direct me to the best works of: >John Coltrane >Ornette Coleman > >i have heard random works of both which i liked, but i need a base point. >also: >Ives >Partch >Varese >Stravinsky >Lee Konitz >Carl Stalling >Ohta Hiromi >Ennio Morricone > >As of right now i'm just picking up names as i hear them.... >Being of the age 16 and living in the pit of TN i do, info about many of >these artists is hard to find. >Thanks be to anyone who can offer help. > >Ben ........................Krucifly um. i am interested in a lot of those names too. but the only one i could answer you on would be Stravinsky. my recommendation would be start with everything and anything by him. Firebird is more normal, he wrote it for a ballet. Patroushka is a good place. and of course Rite of Spring. when i first heard Rite of Spring i almost died. it was a kind of percussion i wasn't ready for. it rumbled through my chest (i have a nice big stereo) and i got out of the room and then turned it down. but now i love it more than most anything. (probably not, but you know what i mean.) concerto in D is good too. -samuel yrui _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: krucifly Date: 30 Jun 1999 13:44:54 -0700 On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:28:00 CDT * % wrote: > > um... > i recommend R. Rauschenberg (and i don't care if i'm spelling his name > wrong.) > i also recommend the book: "Art and Physics." by Leonard Schlain. > and i love surrealist art but know very little about it except that a > bunch of my friends have an argument over Salvador Dahli and those people > and how all surrealists were supposedly sexist women haters, which might be Yes, and a black woman was not allowed to sit in the white section of a bus in 1958... How comfortable it is to look at the past in the armchair of the late 20th century... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: cd collections Date: 30 Jun 1999 16:49:26 -0400 On Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 03:36:47PM -0500, * % wrote: > but i was just wondering. would all the people who have 1000+ please tell > me how long they've been collecting and basically what's your job or > whatever. are any of you college students? and if so how do you manage to > afford buying so much without eating? there's been a few times where i had > to choose between a cd or eating properly and i would buy the CD. silly me. I was in college when I started collecting records. Fortunately, New Brunswick, NJ, where I went to school, was home to Cheap Thrills, a record store that was the main dumping ground for overstock from the distributor Jem Records. Most of what I got cost $.99-$2.99, usually for imports from Europe or Japan. Even adjusting prices to account for the intervening 20 years or so, that was pretty lucky. -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/~jzitt | | Latest Solo CD: Gentle Entropy http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: * % <nonintention@hotmail.com> Subject: Arvo Part/twelve tone system Date: 30 Jun 1999 15:53:57 CDT i hear that in the 70's Arvo Part's musical style was much more... modern. (perhaps less unique.) and i heard he did one piece that was composed using the twelve tone system. has anyone heard this? if so, please share with me what it was like. i suppose i'd like to hear it some day, but would be satisfied just having it described to me. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: * % <nonintention@hotmail.com> Subject: Merzhbow Date: 30 Jun 1999 16:08:22 CDT don't know if i'm spelling Merzhbow correctly. 1.) Tzadik released Merzhbow's '1930'. i've heard from some that it's his best ever. is it? what do you people think? i haven't heard it yet. 2.) i also heard that Merzhbow is releasing a compilation box set of over 500 cd's. is this true? _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: * % <nonintention@hotmail.com> Subject: Merzhbow Date: 30 Jun 1999 16:08:56 CDT oh... 3.)does John Zorn know Merzhbow? not that it matters too much but... _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: nasty as he wants to be Date: 30 Jun 1999 17:16:42 -0500 Wow, and some people thought talking about his record collection was getting too personal. I've talked to Zorn a few times, not a lot. And I saw him fuck off a whole row of photographers at Central Park Summerstate. And of course we all know about him and Madeleine Albright. First off, Michael Witt is right. Judging artists by their personalities will leave you with a cold and boring world. I swore off Mingus after reading his autobiography, until I realized the only thing I was accomplishing was depriving myself of music I love. I've had this fight with a number of friends, sometimes about Zorn's purported misogyny, or Prince's sexism, or others, and find myself defending an artist against charges that, true or not, are irrelevent. You don't have to like art made by bad people, but that's a much more complicated suggestion that it sounds. But Zorn, I don't think, is a bad person. I approached him one time when he didn't want to talk and made it quite clear, brusquely, but not rudely. Other times he's been a sweetheart. Still photographers, on the other hand, are very often assholes. I'm a journalist, and if I'm at a public event, I let the real audience have their say or do their thing before I get in the middle of it. And certainly some photographers are as respectful. But I saw Christian Marclay play solo one time in a fairly dark room. One photographer discovered a fire escape or catwalk stair or something on the back of the stage area, and within minutes the entire stairway was covered with them, flashing so many flashes that it was difficult to keep watching him play. I saw Toni Morrison read in a park, got there early, sat on the ground, and was soon stomped by photographers forcing their way past me to stand in front of me. And anyone who says they need a flash during a performance is lying. I'm glad Zorn not only stops them, but makes a spectacle of it. Maybe when they're on their way home, 5 minutes after the concert started, they'll think about being less obtrusive next time. And the bad words? Well, that don't bother me. And if it does anyone else, I'm surpized they listen to JZ atall, unless it's only the very mature Masada records. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Merzhbow Date: 30 Jun 1999 14:18:07 -0700 On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:08:22 CDT * % wrote: > > 2.) i also heard that Merzhbow is releasing a compilation box set of over > 500 cd's. is this true? 50 x CDs, if I remember well. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret B Martin <mbmartin@ic.sunysb.edu> Subject: put blood in the music Date: 30 Jun 1999 17:21:54 -0400 (EDT) does anyone on this list own a copy of this documentary? i heard it was absolutely wonderful and was hoping to get my hands on it. where in the world can i find this film? thanks, m2 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: * % <nonintention@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Lester Bowie's Sho' Nuff Orchestra Date: 30 Jun 1999 16:57:55 CDT hm. i go to the Perpich Arts High School in Golden Valley, Minnesota. Lester Bowie came with an old choreographer and her dancers. there was an ethnic drummer there as well. they put on a lovely show. Lester entertained a small group of us heartily afterwards with cute little tunes because everyone knew he could play ten thousand times better than that and i guess that's why it was hysterical but i guess you had to be there. ha ha. -samuel yrui replying to: >Back around 1981-82, Bowie gave a concert in NYC with this band, an >enormous congregation of the finest musicians in NY (my recollection is >that it was at Symphony Space). I remember thinking at the time, when >debating whether or not to go, that it had all the earmarks of a >well-intentioned mess and opted not to attend, but the reviews were >sensational; there's a permanent imprint of my heel on my butt. In a >photo from the event on the back of Lester's 'All the Magic' release on >ECM, to give an idea of the size of the ensemble, one can make out at >least 16 saxophonists (including Braxton, Threadgill, Mitchell, Blythe, >Hemphill and Lowe!) and at least eight trombonists (with Lewis, Turre, >Harris and Lacy). My question is: does anyone know if this was ever >recorded? Might tapes exist? Thanks. > >Brian Olewnick > >- > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com> Subject: Re: nasty as he wants to be Date: 30 Jun 1999 18:12:14 -0800 And anyone who says they need a flash >during a performance is lying. I'm glad Zorn not only stops them, but makes a >spectacle of it. Maybe when they're on their way home, 5 minutes after the >concert started, they'll think about being less obtrusive next time. I completely agree, if you are good [and using fast film] flash is not necessary during preformances. I snuck a camera into the first Zorn Ribot Medeski Previte concert at the knitting factory. I didnt use a flash, at first I was super covert about it due to all the rumors about JZ's hatred of photographers. He saw me picking it up, I know he did, looked at my camera, then looked me in the eye indifferently, stuck his horn in his mouth and cranked this serious scream. It was great, I caught his spray in the air while blasting out this incredible melange of notes. I dont think he minds as long as you are a respectful photographer. Tim Berne got mad at me for not asking before I took some shots at a bloodcount preformance in the old office. It was my first time seeing him play, I saw him walking around the stage adjusting schitt, but I though he was just a stage hand, I was expecting him to look completely different. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: theorcolus <theorcolus@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Jazz With Electronics Date: 30 Jun 1999 21:22:46 -0400 I think Vernon Reid has merged electronics into the Jazz canon. I just picked up the new King Crimson Live 2 CD set and I would think you could call some of that Jazz with electronics. I also would like to mention the blurb Downtown Music Gallery gave my band "Theorcolus:" DAVID C. GROSS-Theorcolus (144 Music 001) David is a six string el. bassist extraoardinaire, who has plays in Bob Musso's Transonic unit, has played wild improvised duos with guitarist Tor Snyder at DMG, leads a variety of units at the Knit and writes for Bass Frontiers magazine. This is his first release and it is unlike anything I have heard him do previously. He has gathered an unlikely cast that includes trumpeters Erik Jakobson & Lewis Barnes (Little Huey Orch.), saxists Daniel Carter (Other Dimensions & Test), Will Connell (Little Huey Orch) & Patience Higgins (Muhal units), Toby Kasavan on keys (Transonic), plus Num Amun-tehu on percussion & Warren Benbow (Blood's Oddyssey trio) on drums. There are few solos found here, mostly it is David's strong composing for these players that rings true. With no guitarist in sight, it is often the wondrous rhythm team that provides a melodic center for the horns to sail together in delightful harmonies-reminding me of Herbie Hancock's Sextant unit before the funk took over or even Zappa's Grand Wazoo ensemble without the weirdness. These are actually beautiful pieces, with luscious horn parts, especially the parts for bass clarinet & trumpet. David interviewed fuzz-bass god Hugh Hopper for an upcoming BF issue and pays tribute to Hughwith some fine fuzz bass on "Seitan Takes a Solo." Toby's synth spins webs of sound that fly around the mix, freeing things from the internal pulse. While the music here is adventurous but not out, the production here is smooth, perfect for some radio play - here's hoping it gets some its well deserved recognition. David C Gross "a great musician needs to be committed!" www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/7773/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cwestpha@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Westphal) Subject: Re: John Coltraine etc. Date: 30 Jun 1999 18:26:50 -0700 Coltrane - I started with Africa Brass. It's the quartet + some. I think Dolphy is on it too if I remember correctly. Nice dark session. Lotsa horns For classic Trane go with Blue Trane (standard must have). Also check out Tenor Madness with Sonny Rollins (the two tenors hash it out). It'll blow your mind. Oh yeah, and I can't forget Giant Steps. The Village Vanguard sessions are great too. I better stop here or we'll go on all night. This should give you enough to get started. If you don't trust me see for yourself: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/x.dll?UID=9:21:48|PM&p=amg&sql=B65851 Good Luck - c np: Sleep - Jerusalem At 03:43 PM 6/30/99 CDT, owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com wrote: > > >please someone direct me to the best works of: > >John Coltrane > >Ornette Coleman > > > >i have heard random works of both which i liked, but i need a base >point. > >also: > >Ives > >Partch > >Varese > >Stravinsky > >Lee Konitz > >Carl Stalling > >Ohta Hiromi > >Ennio Morricone > > > >As of right now i'm just picking up names as i hear them.... > >Being of the age 16 and living in the pit of TN i do, info about many of > >these artists is hard to find. > >Thanks be to anyone who can offer help. > > > >Ben ........................Krucifly > > > >um. i am interested in a lot of those names too. but the only one i could >answer you on would be Stravinsky. my recommendation would be start with >everything and anything by him. Firebird is more normal, he wrote it for a >ballet. Patroushka is a good place. and of course Rite of Spring. when i >first heard Rite of Spring i almost died. it was a kind of percussion i >wasn't ready for. it rumbled through my chest (i have a nice big stereo) >and i got out of the room and then turned it down. but now i love it more >than most anything. (probably not, but you know what i mean.) concerto in >D is good too. > > -samuel yrui > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >- > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mason Wendell" <fist@erols.com> Subject: Prelapose at Tonic this Fri. (NYC) Date: 01 Jul 1999 00:57:25 -0400 Hey folks: My band Prelapse is playing at Tonic this Friday (July 2). It's part of Zorn's New Music Festival. We'll be doing a bunch of Naked City tunes and tons of original stuff. Come on out if you can! We go on at 8:00 PM. Tonic is located at 107 Norfolk Street. (Between Delancey & Rivington) ca= ll 212-358-7501 http://www.tonic107.com see ya there! </Mason.Prelapse> __________________________ this is from Tonic's mail: Fri, Jul 02 >> Prelapse at 8:00pm, $7 >> Satoko Fujii at 10:00pm, $10 >> Michael Blake's Free Association at Midnight, $4 With Dave Tronzo & Ben Allison. _____________________________ Here's the ful press release: For immediate release Prelapse- "The music of John Zorn's Naked City and compositions for loud ensemble." In the world of tribute bands, Prelapse must not be the smartest. They co= uld have dressed up like Pearl Jam or Gloria Estefan and made ton of money touring the State Fair circuit. But instead they decided that transcribin= g note-for-note the compositions of John Zorn's Naked City was the surer pa= th to wealth, stardom and notoriety. When Alex Lacamoire [keys] and Mason Wendell [bass/vocals] presented Zorn with over 30 of their transcriptions along with a tape of their performan= ce, he was stunned. Zorn immediately sent them a package of everything he wro= te for Naked City and authorized Prelapse to debut his unperformed compositions. The over-a-dozen new works were premiered at festival in Boston honoring Zorn's music, and three of the pieces are included on Zor= n's "Music for Children" CD (Tzadik). Their self-titled debut CD (DIW) will feature many original works by Prelapse as well as the remaining Zorn premieres. Prelapse's original mus= ic is as eclectic, varied, and energetic as you might expect from a band wit= h such a background. Each composer within the group brings a strong individ= ual voice and style to the mix. Yet this music is very focused. There's a tightness and an attention to detail that really sticks out in their performances. This is music for chamber ensemble - it's just that this ensemble is a five-piece rock band. Prelapse's live performances promise to mix a (un)healthy amount of Zorn'= s music with their own. In the words of the man himself: "These guys f=E0ckin' shred these tunes" -John Zorn Alex Lacamoire - piano,organ,samples and such Mason Wendell - bass and vocals Dane Johnson - guitar, dobro and fretless guitar Jeff Hudgins - sax, clarinet Andy Sanesi - drums ### -=3DMason Wendell -=3DBlinder -=3Dfist@erols.com -=3DBlinder - http://blinder.pair.com -=3DMP3 - http://www.mp3.com/blinder -