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2002-02-08
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #766
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Saturday, February 9 2002 Volume 03 : Number 766
In this issue:
-
RE:Zorn as Miles???????
Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake
Blues and the Abstract Truth [was RE: Zorn as Miles????????]
Re: Blues and the Abstract Truth [was RE: Zorn as Miles????????]
Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Re: boring old miles
Re: Blues and the Abstract Truth [was RE: Zorn as Miles????????]
John Zorn and Byran Ferry's saxaphone
Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Coltrane/Dolphy
Re: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake
Re: Miles
What instrumentalists use words the best?
Re: events in Lund/Kopenhagen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 22:14:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Gabriel Drummer <gabriel_drummer@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:Zorn as Miles???????
I must confess too: I could never get into Sun Ra.
And I'm not making any efforts to dig him because "I
should". Another one that nowadays sounds like a
confession: I really liked the Frisell-Holland-Jones
recording.
About Kind of Blue, I dig it, but not even half as
I dig Milestones, or E.S.P, or Miles Smiles, or
Nefertiti, or the Plugged Nickel live CD's, or Bitches
Brew. Anyway, I recognize and respect the importance
Kind of Blues had (has) in the development of Jazz.
One recording that seems really important to me
that hasn't been mentioned in the desert island picks,
is The blues and the abstract truth, by Oliver Nelson.
I think Saxophone colossus is also in that
freshness-kickass level, with top musicians playing
their butts off, great compositions and a lot to say,
musically.
Gabe
np: Dutilleux
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 22:20:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Gabriel Drummer <gabriel_drummer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
I must confess too: I could never get into Sun Ra. And
I'm not making any efforts to dig him because "I
should". Another one that nowadays sounds like a
confession: I really liked the Frisell-Holland-Jones
recording.
About Kind of Blue, I dig it, but not even half as
I dig Milestones, or E.S.P, or Miles Smiles, or
Nefertiti, or the Plugged Nickel live CD's, or Bitches
Brew. Anyway, I recognize and respect the importance
Kind of Blues had (has) in the development of Jazz.
One recording that seems really important to me
that hasn't been mentioned in the desert island picks,
is The blues and the abstract truth, by Oliver Nelson.
I think Sonny Rollins's Saxophone colossus (yes, he's
definitely made more albums than I'd have liked him
to) is also in that freshness-kickass level, with top
musicians playing their butts off, great compositions
and a lot to say, musically.
Gabe
np: Dutilleux
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 01:41:39 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca>
Subject: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
- --MS_Mac_OE_3096063699_173810_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
on 2/7/02 4:35 PM, Efr=E9n del Valle at efrendv@yahoo.es wrote:
Efr=E9n del Valle
n.p: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake: "Open Systems" (Terron=E8s)
Can you tell us about this one? I love all these players.
- --Mike
- --MS_Mac_OE_3096063699_173810_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
on 2/7/02 4:35 PM, Efr=E9n del Valle at efrendv@yahoo.es wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2">Efr=E9n del Valle<BR>
n.p: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake: "Open Systems" (Terron=E8s)<BR>
</FONT><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>Can you tell us about this one? I love all these players=
.<BR>
<BR>
- --Mike<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
- --MS_Mac_OE_3096063699_173810_MIME_Part--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 01:40:37 -0500
From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Blues and the Abstract Truth [was RE: Zorn as Miles????????]
Easily one of the freshest albums I've ever heard, and one I turn to time
and time again for great pleasure. (Jeez, that sounded very "Penguin Guide,"
but I can't think of a more appropriate way to phrase it...) Great band,
great charts, and one of the most single jazz compositions of all time in
"Stolen Moments" (and "Hoe-Down," though a tad corny, is not far behind). It
belongs in the pantheon of truly great jazz LPs, but I think it gets
overlooked by many because Nelson -- though fairly consistently fine --
never hit the same exalted level again.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Gabriel Drummer
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 1:21 AM
One recording that seems really important to me
that hasn't been mentioned in the desert island picks,
is The blues and the abstract truth, by Oliver Nelson.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 23:05:44 -0800
From: Fred Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Blues and the Abstract Truth [was RE: Zorn as Miles????????]
skip heller
> Easily one of the freshest albums I've ever heard, and one I turn to time
> and time again for great pleasure. (Jeez, that sounded very "Penguin Guide,"
> but I can't think of a more appropriate way to phrase it...) Great band,
> great charts, and one of the most single jazz compositions of all time in
> "Stolen Moments" (and "Hoe-Down," though a tad corny, is not far behind). It
> belongs in the pantheon of truly great jazz LPs, but I think it gets
> overlooked by many because Nelson -- though fairly consistently fine --
> never hit the same exalted level again.
>
> Steve Smith
I also think it's Dolphy's best straight-ahead playing on any record. And
the way Bill Evans changes behind each soloist... whew. Definitely one of
those indispensible things.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 23:08:47 -0800
From: Fred Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
skip heller
>
> I must confess too: I could never get into Sun Ra. And
> I'm not making any efforts to dig him because "I
> should".
Sun Ra is an example of where making too many records will turn even the
most receptive listener off. But he's done so much great stuff that I can't
help but think you'll find some stuff in there that you'll go for. I only
came to him via his doo-wop singles, then I kind of went, "Oh...".
And I agree with you about MILESTONES. That record still excites me down to
my toes like almost no other.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 12:23:28 +0100
From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: boring old miles
Kurt Gottschalk wrote:
> what records have best stood the test of time? not just the best records,
> but the ones that retain they're freshness. i was listening to 'the big
> gundown' the other day, and was amazed at how alive it still is.
>
Good question...
Here are some of the recordings I can think of off the top of my head:
The Cure, Pornography
Naked City, Torture Garden
Edgar VarΦse, Complete Works
Miles Davis, Kind Of Blue
John Zorn, Naked City
Underground Resistance, most of their 12" vinyl EPs
Ennio Morricone, most of his stuff that I know
Plus many more, I guess - but my brain capacity is very limited...
np: Gillespie / Parker et al., Massey Hall
nr: Alex Kerr, Dogs & Demons
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 07:05:57 -0500
From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: Blues and the Abstract Truth [was RE: Zorn as Miles????????]
on 02.02.09 1:40 AM, Steve Smith at ssmith36@sprynet.com wrote:
> Great band,
> great charts, and one of the most single jazz compositions of all time in
> "Stolen Moments" (and "Hoe-Down," though a tad corny, is not far behind). It
> belongs in the pantheon of truly great jazz LPs, but I think it gets
> overlooked by many because Nelson -- though fairly consistently fine --
> never hit the same exalted level again.
And the solos Nelson hits are about perfectly constructed. So logical, so
flowing.
Good call Gabriel,
RL
- ----------
[ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ]
Sessionographies :
CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.
Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.
Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
- ----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE *** [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 05:07:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Stephen Arthur <sarthur67@yahoo.com>
Subject: John Zorn and Byran Ferry's saxaphone
Hi,
Do you think that John Zorn's saxaphone was influence
by Do The Strand? I was always wondering this since I
bought a John Zorn cd.
Thanks.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 07:27:23 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
HI,
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only sinner here: Rollins, Coltrane, Sun
Ra, ... And I thought my problem was serious! :-)
>We're not talking about Miles' importance to you. We're talking about his
>general importance. Big difference.
>skip h
Sure Skip, big difference. And that's what I meant all the time and you
don't seem to understand: unimportant for me but not FOR EVERYONE. I said it
from the very beginning!
Best,
EfrΘn del Valle
n.p: Big Satan "Live at Vortex" (bootleg)
_________________________________________________________
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 08:55:33 -0500
From: "Alan Kayser" <alankayser@hotmail.com>
Subject: Coltrane/Dolphy
Rick Lopez wrote
"Yup, same deal-- I've got probably three dozen Coltrane discs, but the only
ones I ever go for are the ones where I can hear Dolphy."
I agree, Rick. I suppose that's why I now consider the Village Vanguard box
set to be the Coltrane I reach for. The level of excitement and variety is
much higher on these live shows than the rather (IMHO) dry and clinical
studio recordings. Perhaps Coltrane was following Miles' dicate of
"practicing on stage" so that the material is always fresh and new, whereas
the studio recordings were worked over time and again until they were
perfect. And Dolphy adds a warmth now present otherwise. Dolphy had that
magic, whereas Sanders sound is close to Coltrane's, thus not enough
contrast. Listening to the VV shows and Mingus from the 60's European
(Paris, Antibbes(?))tour convinces me that ED was the "ringer" that made
those two groups so special.
Alan Kayser
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 00:00:07 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C1B0FC.BC3F5980
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/DrakeHi,
I've had tones of CDs to listen to lately, so I just could listen to it =
a couple of times and yesterday I lent it. However, I think I can =
already tell you go and buy it!! It's a superb free jazz album with a =
remarkable 60's flavor: In fact, the record opens with a cover of =
Ornette's "Lonely Woman" and the third track is a homage to Albert =
Ayler, if that helps. Tsahar is blowing really hard all over and, for =
the first time, I was immensely impressed by Drake's playing aside of =
his work with Peter Br=F6tzmann's Die Like a Dog. The band's playing =
won't dissappoint you, that's for sure. As you see, no great insights =
since I couldn't let it sink in, but I'd dare to recommend it without =
any reservations.
Greetings,
Efr=E9n del Valle
n.p: (as a sign of good faith on my end) Miles Davis Quintet "1965-1968"
Efr=E9n del Valle
n.p: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake: "Open Systems" (Terron=E8s)
Can you tell us about this one? I love all these players.
- --Mike
- ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C1B0FC.BC3F5980
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I've had tones of CDs to listen to lately, so I just =
could=20
listen to it a couple of times and yesterday I lent it. However, I think =
I can=20
already tell you go and buy it!! It's a superb free jazz album with =
a=20
remarkable 60's flavor: In fact, the record opens with a cover of =
Ornette's=20
"Lonely Woman" and the third track is a homage to Albert Ayler, if =
that=20
helps. Tsahar is blowing really hard all over and, for the first time, I =
was immensely impressed by Drake's playing aside of his work with =
Peter=20
Br=F6tzmann's Die Like a Dog. The band's playing won't dissappoint you, =
that's for=20
sure. As you see, no great insights since I couldn't let it sink in, but =
I'd=20
dare to recommend it without any reservations.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Greetings,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Efr=E9n del Valle</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>n.p: (as a sign of good faith on my end) Miles Davis =
Quintet=20
"1965-1968"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Efr=E9n del Valle<BR>n.p: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake: =
"Open=20
Systems" (Terron=E8s)<BR></FONT><BR>Can you tell us about this one? =
I love=20
all these players.<BR><BR>--Mike</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C1B0FC.BC3F5980--
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 16:45:28 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl>
Subject: Re: Miles
> May I suggest checking out a couple rarely mentioned albums?
> -"On the Corner" (studio, 1972, with McLaughlin, Cobham, Corea,
> etc...also red hot and inspired, but while the first album is pure jazz,
> this, y'all, is nasty, eclectic psycho-fonk).
>
This seems to be the one that you either love or hate. It's groovy, sure,
but IMHO nothing really happens there, even for 'psycho fonk'. If you want
to go psycho, it would be better to start with Miles at Fillmore...
Regards, Remco Takken
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 16:42:50 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl>
Subject: What instrumentalists use words the best?
> what instrumentalists use words the best? (it's the writer in me.) i
> nominate threadgill and tim berne as best at naming
> records/compositions/bands.
>
Canadian composer/ guitarplayer Rene Lussier completely blurred the lines
between words and music on his project Le Tresor de la Langue. Musicians on
the cd include Tom Cora and Fred Frith, the spoken word samples were
triggered live on stage by Bob Ostertag in the mid nineties.
Hans Reichel when playing the dachsophone, uses human intonation (not words)
as a big influence on his playing on this newly invented instrument.
On on of the Mingus in Europe records, one can hear Charles Mingus and Eric
Dolphy have a conversation on bassclarinet and bass, but i am not too sure,
that's what you meant...
As far as creating beautiful songtitles, Dutch reedplayer Ab Baars is still
the winner in my book. His record company is called geestgronden, songtitles
include Krang, Hamergaar and Stokdutter.
I also love the name of the group Morzelpronk, one of their cd's is called
Kl'mpenzorro.
Saxophoneplayer Dan Plonsey's own recordlabel is called
Yes, No LP.
That's 'Plonsey' spelled backwards, pretty amazing...
As for experimental vocalists (instrumentalists who use words still best!):
I love Phil Minton, he has a new cd out.
My ultimate vote would go to vocalist Jaap Blonk. Sadly enough, the
Schwitters Estate refuse to let him release The ursonate on cd, probably
because it is a superior version to that of Schwitters himself (the eighties
vinyl seldomly pops up second hand). Luckily, Blonk knows the Ursonate by
heart, so once in a while, he does it live.
He has a beautiful jazznpoetry record out just now. It has existing poetry
on it, the title escapes me at the moment.
Blonks latest Braaxtaal cd consists of a language of his own invention, a
very realistic pastiche of Danish, Dutch and Frisian. There's not one single
word there which exists in one of above languages, but the lyrics all seem
to make sense, and go along pretty cool with the moody electro atmospere of
the Braaxtaal group.
I am quite sure Braaxtaals work is available through Cadence.
Regards, Remco Takken
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 16:41:24 +0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: events in Lund/Kopenhagen?
>I am going to be in Lund, Sweden for the next couple of weeks and I was
>wondering if anyone from that region could recommend anything >interesting
>taking place. I guess even Kopenhagen is within reach, making it more
>interesting.
www.jazzhouse.dk (Mengelberg will also play there!)
www.loppen.dk
www.pumpehuset.dk
www.stengade.dk
www.vega.dk
>Too bad I'll be missing DKV here, but I will be back in time for the
>Misha Mengelberg / H. Bennink/ B. Jones/ D. Douglas concerts at the
> >BIMhuis.
>Any idea on what to expect? Similar "quiet" stuff as last year with
>M.M./J. Baron/ G. Cohen or (hopefully...) something more exciting?
>Of course Bennink is not Baron (I see flames coming...)!!!
Hey, Bennink beats Baron by a far shot, especially when it comes to playing
with Misha. This should be a very good group.
Don't get me wrong, I love Baron's playing but that guy is seriously wasting
his time. It's truly sad. Why does he play with Joe Lovano and those guys?
It's so boring. Is he invovled in any avantgarish stuff at all any more?
_________________________________________________________________
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- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #766
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