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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, June 12 2001        Volume 03 : Number 463



In this issue:
-
       Re: Radiohead
       Re: RadioDeadhead
       Re: Vision Fest in the NY Times
       Sleepytime Live
       Re: Mojo (Was RE: David Toop RAP ATTACK question)
       RE: Sleepytime Live
       Re: Vision Fest in the NY Times
       Re: Vision Fest in the NY Times
       Re: Wyatt (was Re: Radiohead)
       Re: Vision Fest in the NY Times
       re: Robert Wyatt
       SY/Stereolab/Pram
       Fwd: Re: stereolab/s.y. (was: radiohead)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:06:22 -0700
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Radiohead

>> From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
>>
>> i still don't see how people can deem them the best rock band in the
>> world. to me, o.k. computer comes across as low-rent king crimson.
>
> Perhaps you should not judge them by only one album. Their next (Kid A,
> which is their best IMHO) is of a very different style than OK Computer.
>
> Regards,
> Gamantyo
>
> -
>
Did I accidentally subscribe to some sort of VH1 list? All this Radiohead is
making me wonder.

skip heller

np: SPILLANE


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 03:08:01 -0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: RadioDeadhead

>
> >From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
>
> >
> >obviously i'm in the vast minority on this.


Welcome to the vast minority! Somehow I just know that in 3-4 years used CD
stores, and thrift stores for that matter, will be full of Radiohead
'product'...

Incidentally, the 'boys in the band' sat down with their label a couple of
years back to draw up a 10 year plan to make Radiohead the next  Pink Floyd
(obviously post D.S.O.T.M.), with a detailed strategy re: promotion, release
schedules, musical direction, performance venues, etc. As I said before,
this band sure reminds me of Supertramp...

np: my grandmother


Sorry! Why are we even discussing this band on this list???
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:21:51 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Vision Fest in the NY Times

some interesting points, Benjamin, but I still have one major problem with
your argument...

<<  whether "aesthetical enjoyment" is part of the professional
listener / critic's job, is questionable. The professional listener /
critic might be expected to write intelligently about things that he may,
or may not, like. What he likes or dislikes is a matter of preferences, or
opinions, and is irrelevant. >>

do you realize how few critics there are who get paid well for music
criticism? even prominent magazines like Signal To Noise and Cadence, to cite
two examples, pay nothing to their writers, at least in most cases. if
aesthetical enjoyment isn't part of their job, there's not much left. your
point seems much more idealistic than realistic.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:28:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Swelling <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sleepytime Live

Hello Zornatics,
Sleepytime Gorilla Museum will be performing with
Cortex Bomb in Tucson AZ. Tues June 19th at Solar
Culture. Both groups play music you all on this list
might enjoy, and if you for some unconceived reason
happen to be stuck here in the desert on a tuesday
night, i would certainly encourage you not to miss
this show. it will be eventful. Some of you may or may
not be familiar with Cortex Bomb from our last cd, we
have another "Fist or Finger" pretty much done, just
finishing the cover art. The new one is less jazz,
more filmesque insanity(?). We have posted one song
"hello kitty/korn against the machine" from the new cd
to our mp3 site,
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/64/cortex_bomb.html
check it out immediately or be forever wondering what
is is you are missing out on in life *note sarcasm*.
to learn more about the upcoming show or about
sleepytime gorilla museum (a truely awesome band)
visit the mockbrawn link below.

<e>bomb
"Boycott shampoo! Demand the REAL poo!"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
m0ckbr4wn-- http://www.mockbrawn.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

__________________________________________________
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:03:24 -0700
From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mojo (Was RE: David Toop RAP ATTACK question)

Mojo, over all, is a very good magazine.  Good writing and their subject
matter is usually interesting - plus it seems that they go out of their way
to find unusual photographs, etc.  I have been subscribing to Mojo for the
past 4 or 5 years and I am rarely disappointed.   If one is to nip-pick, I
am sure you can find something wrong with them  - but overall they have a
good sense of direction in what they want to do.  It seems that there
magazine is rooted for people in their Thirties and over - so it really
features good writing and an interesting gasp on music's history, etc.

The reviews are so-so, but in the end so what!

Best,


- --
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 02:07:09 -0400
From: "Jim McLoughlin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Sleepytime Live

Hi

I was off list for the first part of the year, so I'm not sure if SGM has
been discussed recently.  Just in case...

I caught there midnight sat at Tonic Friday accidentally after seeing Marc
Ribot's new project _The Crackers_.  I was blown away by their show,
particularly the precision on all of the home made instruments and
dulcimers.  It's also quite heavy for you metal fans.

The sound was exceptional too - you could hear everything from faint
whispers to blaring industrial crunches.  After the gig, they were
soliciting a NY area gig as one had been cancelled on them, and said
"...we've even got our own PA and soundman."  "No shit!" was the reaction of
the folks I was with.  I won't go into the visual aspect.  They really have
their act together.

Just wanted to put in a recommendation in case they come through your town.

Jim M


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 04:19:07 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Vision Fest in the NY Times

In a message dated 11/06/01 20:45:24 GMT Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Subj:    Re: Vision Fest in the NY Times
 Date:  11/06/01 12:59:33 GMT Daylight Time
 From:  [e-mail]
 To:    [e-mail], Roger H Parry


 In a message dated 6/11/01 5:10:32 AM, [e-mail] writes:

 << Of course, as Gigi Pidienti, (he is at [e-mail]) has
pointed
 out in the past, there is another way: exercise the discretion NOT TO
 'aesthetically enjoy a show while you have to write about it and think of
 interesting, thought-provoking things to say'. >>

 Roger, ever since you joined this list a few months ago, you continually
post statements like this. well, I'd like elaboration on this one. what's
your point? are you saying no one should write about music? I don't
understand the purpose of this post, or many of your others, for that matter.
I feel like sometimes they're implicitly condescending, as if no one else
here has ever considered the possibilities you suggest (whoa! adding the
words NOT TO to Jason's post make me see things in a whole new light! there's
another possible path!) do you think you could enlighten me by answering in
English, rather than some pseudo-insightful epigrammatical statement? thanks!

 Jon >>

11 June 2001

Dear Jon,

No condescension intended - but how I write is a matter only for me!

You seek elaboration in a tone that intimates you may feel threatened by the
observations occasionally posted by me.

The attempt is made using, as ever, that language known as 'English.' Of
course, 'elaboration' is not considered by us to be synonymous with
'understanding' or 'communication.' Perhaps you are one who subscribes to the
view that a 'word,' once recognised as such, has some inherent absolute
meaning rather than being (as we like to think) some thing to which you - as
the individual recognising the thing as a word - donate your 'meaning'. My
friends and I subscribe to the view - taken consequent upon years of
experience - that language is, at best, but an impoverished attempt between
individuals to reach some common, mutual understanding of some matter.
Misunderstanding is just as likely to be the result of attempts at
'communicating'.

Gigi's position, nut-shelled, is this:
To secure a future physical environment upon this planet that can continue to
support human life (other than at the extremes of unpleasant existence) means
that, of our own volition, we will eventually come to 'exercise our
discretion not to'. Thus, we will relinquish many of the actions and things
that we currently consider essential to our well being. I will not waste time
enumerating even one of these. You are familiar with the plethora of
'overlardings' with which we have weighed ourselves down.
Gigi extends this proposition to the environment of the imagination, that
interior physical process arising within almost every one of us as a
consequence of our existence in a physical world of process of which we each
have a unique awareness. He foresees the day when individuals may conclude
that - being in a state of unique awareness - it may be less damaging to the
processes of appreciation in others to let them come to their own conclusions
about their own experiences.

As a practical illustration, Gigi remembers very well the day, many years
ago, when he bought, as a visitor to some remote corner of the State of
Washington in the United States of America, an LP record of a performance of
the Sibelius Violin Concerto. He recalls that the sleeve note was all or
partly written by one Rollo Myers, a noted American 'critic'. Gigi says that
he made the error of reading this note before he auditioned the material on
the LP. In it there was reference to how a certain part of the music reminded
Rollo of a romping polar bear. Now, armed with this image, his capacity to
listen to the passage concerned was forever marred. He has never been the
same since! He says that Rollo should have exercised his discretion not to
say that. On the other hand, Gigi has no problem with Sibelius saying that,
or anything else, or with Rollo reporting whatever Sibelius may have said
about his concerto (or anything else), good faith between parties being a
principal we have adopted for the time being.

As a rule of thumb, we like to have information (in a form as objective as it
can be) about what has occurred and what is planned to occur, what has been
released and what is to be released by way of recordings. We like to listen
to a variety of sound-based events both live and recorded. We like to listen
in a 'non-linguistic' way for we think that language gets in the way of
listening ('deep listening', some might say). We are aware of the
physiological differences of process associated with language assimilation
(written &/or spoken) and the assimilation of sounds. Those palpabilities,
the hemispheres of the brain, could make an entry here. Sounds can, of
course, be expressed in language comprehensible or otherwise to a certain
listener and thus is their nature determined (from the point of view of
internal processing.)

The express quotation that initiated your response was: 'aesthetically
enjoy...
(what, we wonder, would be the 'meaning' you would donate to this term?)[*]
...a show while you have to write about it and think of interesting,
thought-provoking things to say'. We hope we have been successful in our
elaboration.
[*] We have noted and enjoyed the posting (aimed in your direction) of
Benjamin on this point in his -
Subj:    Re: Vision Fest in the NY Times
Date:   11/06/01 21:40:19 GMT Daylight Time
From:   [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Thanks too, to him for drawing our attention to 'What New York Deserves in a
Jazz Festival' by a perspicacious BEN RATLIFF in a recent NY Times.

Best regards

(yours in pseudo-insightful epigrams)

Roger Parry and friends and constant companions

[to whom copied]
Gigi Pidienti at [e-mail] [Chez Parry]
Henry Oswaldsson at [e-mail] [Uppsala]

P.S.
We have noted how you feel about our postings. That is a consequence of your
own reactions to what has been posted. We take no responsibility for those.
We do not seek to enlighten anyone.  However, you could enlighten yourself,
perhaps. The purpose of our postings is to provoke (I'm provoking =
improv_o_king) responses. Occasionally, as in this case, our purpose has been
achieved.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 01:58:58 -0700
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Vision Fest in the NY Times

> << Of course, as Gigi Pidienti, (he is at [e-mail]) has
> pointed
> out in the past, there is another way: exercise the discretion NOT TO
> 'aesthetically enjoy a show while you have to write about it and think of
> interesting, thought-provoking things to say'. >>
>

One of the problems with music journalism is that something that should
essentially be music reportage that should let a consumer or potential
consumer draw his own conclusions is too often sabotaged by someone feeling
the need to prove he can "write".

I worked for a bit as a music journalist, and was frequently being lectured
by editors about how I let the musicians' quotes take up too much of my
articles.  I got in even worse trouble by saying, point blank, that critics
are a hell of a lot less useful than consumer advocates.  I decided after
years of having this argument that I was better off making my living as a
player than trying to be both a journalist and a reporter.

The writers who seem to excel with editors are generally stylized as all
get-out and in posession of a viewpoint.  Quite often, they have snappy
things to say but not always that much deep knowledge about the subject they
are purporting to cover.  I have too often seen adjectives so perplexing
that I had no idea whether or not the critic in question respected the
performance.  Also, I have seen things written that were just plain wrong,
because someone had an elaborate philsophical thesis they had to back up.

I shouldn't complain.  I've been treated kindly by the people who choose to
write about me.  But I've seen people I know make fine music only to have it
dumped on by a critic who wants to flex some weird muscle that has nothing
to do with music (re: Christgau's review of Dave Alvin's last record).  And
do get the feeling many critics sit there at a show, thinking of some witty
shit to write, instead of paying attention to the music.  I guess they're
thinking about what they'll do when they get to "perform", as if being a
critic is on par with being a musician.  Trust me -- playing music well is a
hell of a lot harder than reporting accurately.  I respect anybody who does
annything well, but the people I respect the most are the ones who improvise
well as a livelihood, whether it be Ryan Stiles or Keith Jarrett or Doc
Watson.

Personally, I think every critic should study LIFE ON THE MISSISSIPPI by
Mark Twain.  It's a remarkable document wherein he takes something close to
his heart -- steamboat piloting -- and at once captures the magic of it AND
takes an intensely technical subject and actually manages to explain it in
civilian language, all the while communicating that, beyond the technnique
that goes into piloting, there's a certain magic that witholds itself from
words.  Jazz, for all its technical requirements, needs magic to make it go.
Sadly, we have too many critics and not enough Mark Twain's dealing with the
subject.

skip heller
np: Fred Kaz, Eastern Exposure


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:36:46 -0400
From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Wyatt (was Re: Radiohead)

>On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Tosh wrote:
>
>>  instrument in the band.  In many ways they remind me of Robert Wyatt.  And
>>  saying that I like Wyatt much more than Radiohead.
>>
>
>What do you think is Wyatt's best (solo) work?  I have "Mid Eighties"
>"Dondestan" (my fave of the three) and "Rock Bottom."  I'm wondering if
>there's anything fantastic that i'm missing.

    His latest, "Schleep" is quite good, and features such
diverse musicians as Evan Parker, Paul Weller and Phil
Manzanera(whose latest "Vozero" was recorded around the same time,
and features Wyatt prominently)
    I'd also recommend "Ruth is Stranger Than Richard"   There's
also a new Matching Mole live disc, that I have yet to check out.

Rich

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:35:58 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Vision Fest in the NY Times

In a message dated 6/12/01 4:19:07 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< He foresees the day when individuals may conclude that - being in a state
of unique awareness - it may be less damaging to the processes of
appreciation in others to let them come to their own conclusions about their
own experiences.  >>

and....

<<we think that language gets in the way of listening ('deep listening', some
might say).>>

do you see how this might be kind of a silly viewpoint to take on a mailing
list devoted to discussing music?

<<We do not seek to enlighten anyone.>>

mission accomplished, my man. congrats!

<<The purpose of our postings is to provoke responses.>>

and here's another one! it's a successful day for you. once again, congrats!

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:40:03 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: re: Robert Wyatt

>>What do you think is Wyatt's best (solo) work?

For me, it's "Old Rotten Hat" that has held up the best & the longest,
although I would say that "Rock Bottom" & "Dondestan" give it some pretty
good - & maybe even close - runs for the money.

Steve F.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:34:00 +0200 (CEST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: SY/Stereolab/Pram

HI there,

Maybe, even better than all of those Stereolab records
are those by Pram, a group that shares lead Stereolab
female singer Laetitia Sadier. They are an excellent
British pop group (pretty martian all in all). All
their albums are recommendable.

By the way, Sonic Youth in Barcelona this Wednesday
presenting Goodbye XX Century!!!
(I got no tickets for S≤nar so I'll have to jump the
fence!!- and it's risky!!)

Regards,

EfrΘn


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- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:40:43 +0200 (CEST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: stereolab/s.y. (was: radiohead)

 that one with the hamster on it...it's pink...it's
> sort of new...it has a
> song called 'hits of sunshine' on it...the title is
> escaping me.
>
You mean "A Thousand Leaves". Goes back three years I
think. Such a good album too.

Greetings,

EfrΘn

_______________________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente -
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- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #463
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