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Zorn List Digest         Monday, June 4 2001         Volume 03 : Number 456



In this issue:
-
       RE: Forces in Motion (was RE: Sun Ra- Space Is The Place (The Life & Times of Sun Ra))
       Re: Forces in Motion
       Re: laswell's santana
       Re: laswell's santana
       CDs for sale.
       Re: Forces in Motion (was RE: Sun Ra- Space Is The Place (The Life & Times of Sun Ra))
       Sony box sets
       Re: Sony box sets
       Europeans are Cuttin' In
       Re: Europeans are Cuttin' In
       Re: Europeans are Cuttin' In
       Re: Europeans are Cuttin' In
       RE: ground zero question
       [none]
       Frigg
       Godflesh: Jazzfreaks?
       Re: Europeans are Cuttin' In
       Re: Europeans are Cuttin' In
       Re: Godflesh: Jazzfreaks?
       SOUNDS '99 compilation

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:07:17 +0200
From: "Franz Fuchs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Forces in Motion (was RE: Sun Ra- Space Is The Place (The Life & Times of Sun Ra))

> >>>The only slight shortcoming IMO is the way
> that G. Lock adapts to B.'s astrological and mystical views,
> at one time
> using even a friend's horoscope for Braxton. Apart from that it really
> is flawless and a great book.<<<
>
> Yes. An 'auotobiographer should alwaya adapt to his or her
> own views, or the
> views of the reader, never to the views of his or her
> subject, especially
> when such views are mystical. It is so obviously such rubbish, eh?

Yes, I think a biographer should stay true to his or her views and not
adjust too much to his subject, a stance which is called "critical
distance", because otherwise the outcome will easily be hagiographic.
And yes, I really have a problem with Braxton's leaning towards
esoterics, although I wouldn't call it "rubbish" as you polemically try
to imply I did. Anyway, it's quite astounding that few (if any)
journalists who appreciate Bs music, have questioned his views in this
regard - a fact that has already been discussed here two or three months
ago.

Regards
Franz Fuchs


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 11:27:11 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Forces in Motion

In a message dated 02/06/01 15:14:23 GMT Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< G. Lock adapts to B.'s astrological and mystical views, at one time
 using even a friend's horoscope for Braxton. Apart from that it really
 is flawless and a great book.<<<

 Yes. An 'auotobiographer >>
Biographer's can do what thay wish
and auto ones, too
Wouldn't you?!

Rog

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 17:17:44 -0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: laswell's santana

>From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>

>the first three Santana
> > records hold up...
...the band grooves really well and Carlos is plainly playing his
>ass off to this day, esepcially live.

Scratching my head at these comments...certainly if you liked the first 3
Santana records, which I also consider to be essential, it follows you would
have enjoyed his progression into jazzier regions, and if you think Carlos
is 'playing his ass off' now,  I'm sure you need to check out his playing on
Lotus. As for McLaughlin, without even considering Miles (Jack Johnson!) or
Mahavishnu, you might want to listen to Extrapolation (certainly one of the
finest records to come out of the '60s British jazz scene), Where Fortune
Smiles, My Goal's Beyond & Devotion. And John is 'plainly playing HIS ass
off' with the new incarnation of Shakti...



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- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 12:15:21 -0700
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: laswell's santana

>> From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
>
>> the first three Santana
>>> records hold up...
> ...the band grooves really well and Carlos is plainly playing his
>> ass off to this day, esepcially live.
>
> Scratching my head at these comments...certainly if you liked the first 3
> Santana records, which I also consider to be essential, it follows you would
> have enjoyed his progression into jazzier regions, and if you think Carlos
> is 'playing his ass off' now,  I'm sure you need to check out his playing on
> Lotus. As for McLaughlin, without even considering Miles (Jack Johnson!) or
> Mahavishnu, you might want to listen to Extrapolation (certainly one of the
> finest records to come out of the '60s British jazz scene), Where Fortune
> Smiles, My Goal's Beyond & Devotion. And John is 'plainly playing HIS ass
> off' with the new incarnation of Shakti...
>

I think that first band he had was really special.  But I think his jazzier
stuff showed his blues roots less, and I most enjoy CS as a blues guy
reaching that idiom out to other places.  In many ways, I feel the same
about Hendrix.

In the case of John McLaughlin, I've never been a fan, no matter how much
I've tried, except JACK JOHNSON and the first LIFETIME album, and I love
both.  He's probably a genius, but I think he's speaking a different
language than I speak.

skip heller
np:
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
> -
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 13:26:53 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: CDs for sale.

the following CDs are for sale.  Prices include UPS ground shipping =
within
the US.  Sales are on a first come first serve basis. =20

James Blood Ulmer - Music Speeks louder than Words (Koch) $8
     (the majority of the CD is JBU's renditions of Ornette Coleman =
tunes)
Marc Ribot y los Cubanos Postizos - self titled (atlantic) $8
Bill Frisell - Ghost Town (nonesuch) $9
Frank Zappa - 200 Motels original soundtrack 2xCD (ryko) $16
Frank Zappa - Lather 3xCD (ryko) $22
Frank Zappa - Waka/Jawaka (ryko) $9
Gyorgy Kurtag - Musik fur Streichinstrumente (ECM new series) $9
Kiyoshi Mizutani - Works 1989-1991 (povertech) $6

RLW - Tulpas 5xCD (Skeleton) $22
(taken from http://www.selektion.com/members/rlw/rlw_rev.htm:
Beautifully packaged in the form of a book,Tulpas took two years to =
complete
andconsists of interpretations of old and new RLW material by a long =
list of
contributors: these include Merzbow, Marchetti & Noetinger, Rehberg & =
Bauer,
Achim Wollscheid, Aube, John Duncan, Ryoji Ikeda, David Grubbs and Jim
O=B4Rourke,)

Vladislav Delay - Anima (mille plateaux) $10
Jonathan Coleclough - Minya limited edition CDR (strange circus) $11

payment in the form of check, Money order, or cash (at your own risk) =
should
be mailed to the following address:
722 1/2 N.Weber St.
Colorado Springs, CO
80903

thank you.
Matt Wirzbicki







- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:58:54 -0700
From: "s/Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Forces in Motion (was RE: Sun Ra- Space Is The Place (The Life & Times of Sun Ra))

>>>Yes, I think a biographer should stay true to his or her views and not
adjust too much to his subject, a stance which is called "critical
distance",<<<

How do you know GL was not staying true to his views?

How is presenting data from a perspective espoused by the subject not in
full accord with critical distance? Since Braxton believes in mystical
reality, to present data from the arena in which he is interested, and about
which he has written volumes, seems fair game. I found the numerology stuff
very interesting regardless of whether or not I am personally into
numerology. It gave me more of an insider's look at how Braxton thinks and
what he thinks is relevant. This is not to say his perspective is  above
criticism. But, fully understanding his position must precede such
criticism.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 16:29:53 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Sony box sets

Speaking of CD packaging and storage dilemmas, I wonder if any of you have
had problems with the packaging of Sony box sets? When I bought the "Bitches
Brew Sessions" box it took three tries before I finally got a set without any
glue on the discs. Fine.  But a couple days ago I pulled the box out and was
shocked to discover that the glue holding the back of two CD sleeves together
had separated. Two had rolled into the gap formed and the glue left on the
cardboard fused to the CD surface, making the last track(s) on each CD
unplayable. I've called Sony Customer Service to complain but haven't heard
back from them yet. Anybody had to resolve an issue like this with them?
What happened?

All I know for sure at this point is that if/when I replace the set, I'm for
sure gonna use some kind of inner sleeve to protect the discs from such an
occurence in the future.

Jerry

<<a word of warning about those sleeves...
 i couldn't tell from the website, but if there is
 no protection for the cd inside the sleeve it will
 seriously damage any disc inserted. that
 poly-vinyl material scratches discs easily.
 i've also seen cds fuse to the sleeve under
 "normal" home climate conditions.

 hasta.

  >>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:49:08 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sony box sets

yup, i had a similar problem with the Bitches Brew set (as did many folks on
the Miles listserv).  I brought it back to where I bought and had it
replaced...only to have the same problem (glue sticking to the discs) happen
again a month later.  I gave up and have put the CDs in their own paper
sleeves.  The box sure looks nice, but that doesn't make up for the fact that
the inner sleeves are messed up and can potentially ruin the discs.

jeff caltabiano
n.p. ellery eskelin w/ andrea parkins & jim black: five other pieces (+2)
(1999, hatology)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 03:39:20 -0000
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Europeans are Cuttin' In

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/03/arts/03NICH.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/03/arts/03DAVI.html
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 04:08:02 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Europeans are Cuttin' In

In a message dated 03/06/01 04:40:13 GMT Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Subj:     Europeans are Cuttin' In
 Date:  03/06/01 04:40:13 GMT Daylight Time
 From:  [e-mail] (Bill Ashline)
 Sender:    [e-mail]
 To:    [e-mail]

 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/03/arts/03NICH.html >>-

The article, of course, is bunkum!
It expresses opinions that are patently not in cosonance with the evidence.
There is a super-abundance of creative 'jazz' musicians who carry 'American'
papers.
'Norwegians', on the other (one) hand, can be counted on it!
They are to be found playing in vast, empty hospital corridors with an
all-pervasive odour of disinfectant and cold sterility, EuroColdMusic one of
their several pristine promulgators.
Have a nice day!
Rog


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 10:59:00 +0200
From: Bertrand Guggenheim <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Europeans are Cuttin' In

Thanks Bill !
France is not only St Germain, we also have Martial ....and even the very
creative Un Drame Musical Instantane.
http://www.hyptique.com/ONLINE/drame/
Try anything, you'd not regreat it ...

Bill Ashline a =E9crit:

> http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/03/arts/03NICH.html
> http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/03/arts/03DAVI.html
> _______________________________________________________________________=
__
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.co=
m.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 12:54:29 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Europeans are Cuttin' In

it's a pretty silly article, agreed, although the thesis is essentially=20
correct. jazz is a historical art form, with a very few exceptions of people=
=20
working around the edges. however, the European artists Nicholson discusses=20
aren't any more interesting; he manages to write the whole piece ignoring=20
musicians like John Butcher and Axel D=F6rner, who are working out of the ja=
zz=20
tradition, yet truly furthering the music. it always amuses me when critics=20
assume the entire world of recorded music is encompassed by the major label=20
product which shows up in their mailbox. Courtney Pine and Nils Petter=20
Molvaer are in the vanguard of contemporary jazz? please.=20

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:43:40 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: ground zero question


hi Julian

>Just wondering, what is Ground Zero's "Last Concert" like?

like being the liquid steamed by one of those coffee machines?

sections are a bit painful to listen to but the transitions - between
textures - are so appropriate and well done.

it's a full album.  not something I would ever put on just a track from.  So
I guess you could call it a very "unified" performance.

just my personal reaction.

Matt Wirzbicki

ps- sorry for the belated response.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 15:12:29 -0700
From: "Revue des Fossiles" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [none]

Had a chance to hear Globokar's latest CD, _Oblak Semen_
and recommend it without reservation.

Here's a list of his possibly-still-available Harmoni Mundi output:

Michel Portal -  Turblence CD (Harmonia Mundi 905186)
Vinko Globokar - Les Emigres CD (Harmonia Mundi 905212)
Vinko Globokar - Globokar by Globokar CD (Harmonia Mundi 905214)
Vinko Globokar - Hallo, Do You Hear Me?  CD (Harmonia Mundi 90933)

The very fine folks at Forced Exposure list _Les Emigres_, and _Hallo_
as being very much in stock.  Best starting place out of the above HM titles
is probably _Hallo._

- - RdF.
_________________________________________________________________
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:10:05 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Ricardo Reis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Frigg

    Could someone point or give a synopses of Frigg? I've got the
Brecht album and like it ALOT. any more directions?

                greets,

                 Ricardo Reis

                "Non Serviam"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:48:54 -0400
From: "Neil H. Enet" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Godflesh: Jazzfreaks?

I understand that GODFLESH's SELFLESS album was named after JOHN COLTRANE's
SELFLESSNESS.  Now GODFLESH are about to release a compilation called IN ALL
LANGUAGES, just like ORNETTE's 1987 album.  Can anyone confirm that GODFLESH
are indeed jazzfreaks.

Thanks

Neil H. Enet
- ------------

NP. Neneh Cherry - Man


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 23:53:40 +0200
From: "Marius Ergo" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Europeans are Cuttin' In

This is obviusly a very shallow article. For one thing, the article hardly
scratches the suface of what europe has to offer, and discusses names that
have been around for some years. It also tries geographically to determine
where the future of jazz lies("The future of jazz" being the phrase that
always cracks me up), which in itself is quite humourous. However, the thing
we have to consider when reading the article in queston is that it is
written by a journalist whos preconcieved opinion is that the reader does
not have a very good overview of neither European nor American jazz history.
Or at least it seems like that.

The truth about the European jazz scene is that the jazz/house(or
whatever)-thing is passΦ, or to put it differently,it has moved into the
mainstream, and I think THAT is the story here. There are more interesting
things happening in europe, and it revolves more around free improvisation,
which obviously is nothing new, but it is being approached differently than
it has been done before. I feel that the traditions of both American and
European free jazz are being absorbed by a lot of young european players
today and a lot of interesting styles emerges. Again, nothing new, but quite
nice(some of it). I am Norwegian, so my knowledge is mostly based on the
Norwegian scene, but I can say that there is a lot of interesting things
going on with sofa records, the Oslo jazz club blσ, and the record label
rune grammofon

http://sofa.norcd.no/index.html
http://www.blaajazz.no
http://www.runegrammofon.com





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- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:01:19 +0200
From: "Marius Ergo" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Europeans are Cuttin' In

Sorry, that would be http://www.blaajazz.com


I am Norwegian, so my knowledge is mostly based on
>the
>Norwegian scene, but I can say that there is a lot of interesting things
>going on with sofa records, the Oslo jazz club blσ, and the record label
>rune grammofon
>
>http://sofa.norcd.no/index.html
>http://www.blaajazz.no
>http://www.runegrammofon.com





________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
>-
>

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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 18:19:48 -0700
From: "Revue des Fossiles" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Godflesh: Jazzfreaks?

Neil -

Justin Broadrick (who has played with Painkiller)is most certainly a
"jazz-freak," as is his close artistic associate Kevin Martin.  Check out
the side project _God_ preferably the album "Posession" (with Zorn and
Prevost) to see just how much of a jazzfreak Broadrick is, and the other
_God_ albums "Anatomy of Addiction" and its remix "Appeal to Human Greed"
for electric era Miles Davis comparisons.

Much more detailed information and more at:

www.godflesh.com

Anyway, you've peaked my curiosity with the announcement of the title of the
latest Godflesh album.  Now I'll have to go out and pick it up just to
listen to Broadrick's take on harmolodic theory.

- - RdF.



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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:21:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
Subject: SOUNDS '99 compilation

Hope this hasn't already been answered, but does
anyone know who distributes Blue Tower records in the
U.S.?  I'm trying to find the 3cd SOUNDS '99 comp,
full of Swedish improvisors.  Actually, I haven't
heard a thing about it, so if anyone has and has an
opinion, I'd like to hear about it.

Thanks,

- ------s

NP: Iskra 1903 - CHAPTER ONE 1970-2  (disc one)
was: Nurse With Wound - ROCK N' ROLL STATION
next: Henry Cow - UNREST
NR: Samuel Delany - DHALGREN

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- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #456
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