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Zorn List Digest       Wednesday, April 18 2001       Volume 03 : Number 388



In this issue:
-
       Re: [no zorn] guilty crimson
       Re: [no zorn] guilty crimson
       unconditional love
       Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #387
       Re: feldman
       RE: [no zorn] guilty crimson - LONG (as you might expect...)
       Re: unconditional love
       Re: Guilty Choices
       Re: Guilty Choices
       RE: unconditional love
       RE: Guilty Choices
       RE: Guilty Choices

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:51:10 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [no zorn] guilty crimson

On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:11:46PM -0400, Albrecht Koschnik wrote:

> Do you have any recommendations, or comments?  I am especially interested
> in what you think of releases involving the line-up with Lol Coxhill and
> Michael Wallace.

Er, I don't know of any Crimson recordings with either of these, offhand.

Could you mean drummer Ian Wallace?

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:09:01 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [no zorn] guilty crimson

On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:51:10 -0500  Joseph Zitt wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:11:46PM -0400, Albrecht Koschnik wrote:
>
> > Do you have any recommendations, or comments?  I am especially interested
> > in what you think of releases involving the line-up with Lol Coxhill and
> > Michael Wallace.
>
> Er, I don't know of any Crimson recordings with either of these, offhand.

Same here. It is the first time that I even hear about Coxhill and King
Crimson. But Fripp and Coxhill in the same studio or stage, that should
not surprised me (large Keith Tippett projects?).

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:24:50 -0300
From: mwoodwor <[e-mail]>
Subject: unconditional love

2 albums that don't really fit into my collection anymore and that I have
CONSISTENTLY loved and listened to for many, many years
and NEVER gotten sick of (to a point where I find it worrisome!) are

1. Genesis - Lamb lies down on Broadway
and
2. Kate Bush - Hounds of love

mike.

np Joe Morris Quartet - Live at the knitting factory (Tim berne's new
one on THirsty Ear is in the mail - can't wait)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:31:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald Hiznay <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #387

"I love "Leng Tch'e" but have found the Melvins stuff
I have heard to be
quite bad and rather unlike "Leng Th'e", but I have
only heard their
recent
Ipecac releases.
So........................ how similar is "Lysol" and
"Leng Tch'e"?????



Funny,I find Leng Tch'e to be irritatingly boring, and
wholly uninspiring, not to say that the melvins can't
be really boring too, but leng tch'e is a crappy rip
off of them, I thought so in 92 when I first heard it,
and I still think so today, needless to say, the
tourture garden cd of my black case tourture
garden/leng tch'e double cd is nearly worn out, while
the leng tch'e cd has barely ever seen the light of
day, although i do keep checking to see if it's gotten
any better with age, sorry, but no......

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:20:31 -0400
From: Stephen Drury <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: feldman

At 05:13 PM 4/17/01 -0600, Tom wrote:
>Anyone know where I might find a healthy selection of Feldman's available
>(and out of print) discs?

Louis Goldstein's recording of Triadic Memories - I think you can get it through

http://www.anomalousrecords.com

more info about it on Louis' site:
http://www.wfu.edu/users/louieg/tmnote.htm

- --steve

updated info on the Summer Institute for Contemporary Piano Performance at
http://www.stephendrury.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:27:20 -0400
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [no zorn] guilty crimson - LONG (as you might expect...)

Like Joseph and Patrice, I can't think of a single instance in which Lol
Coxhill and Michael Wallace are featured on any recording with Robert Fripp.
They most assuredly were not involved in any King Crimson permutation.
However, the much maligned 1971-72 version of the band to which I referred
in my own list did feature drummer Ian Wallace (as Joseph pointed out) and a
saxophonist named Mel Collins.  Perhaps the names are close enough to
explain the mistaken identities?

There are indeed a lot of live Crimson releases, especially lately.  All
periods and permutations of the band are represented on the 2CD set 'Cirkus:
The Young Person's Guide to King Crimson Live.'  This is the best starting
place for absolutely anyone, as it offers fine examples of all of the below
phases of the band.  Otherwise, here's a quick run down, arranged by period,
with the Collectors Club noted at the end:

1. 1969 band - 'Epitaph' - If you bought the two CD version, you might
already know that there are two additional discs that can be ordered via
mail order or purchased as Japanese imports.  The additional discs are more
of the same, in far lesser sound quality.  Order them if that appeals to
you - they're a must for completists, and sound better than the available
boots (some of which are more complete, however).

2. 1971-72 band - no live releases on CD, but the bootleg-sounding official
release 'Earthbound' can sometimes be found on used vinyl.  Again, mostly
for completists.  This was more of a bluesy jam band than any other version,
and frequently they relied on simple one or two chord vamps for their
improvs.  But on a good night they could be more exciting than just about
any other version of the band.  I've got a boot from the Academy of Music in
NYC circa '71 where at one point they reach the white light and white heat
of Last Exit, no kidding.  If I was Procol Harum, I would have been afraid
to follow them on stage.

3. 1973-74 band - 'The Great Deceiver' (4CD), 'The Night Watch' (2CD) - This
version of the band improvised extensively in every single show.  There's
something new in every single show, therefore, but, like the Grateful Dead,
once you know the langauage in which they played, you've got a pretty good
idea of what the band was like in general.  Since this is the richest lode
of improv, there is correspondingly the most live material available, both
legit and boot.  'The Great Deceiver' is a heaping helping of this stuff,
with most of the band's studio compositions represented amongst copious
improvs.  'The Night Watch' is an almost complete recording of a singularly
great show from Amsterdam in 1973, much of which would subsequently be found
on the album 'Starless and Bible Black.'  It's essential to fans of this
era.  The Wetton/Bruford rhythm  team was a monster.

4. 1981-84 band - 'Absent Lovers' (2CD) - This version of the band
improvised least of any, so multiple boots are pointless in my opinion
except for historical and repertoire purposes.  But the instrumental
interplay is often awe-inspiring, and I've seen many testimonials to the
effect that this set is in some ways even more convincing than the three
studio records of the period.  It's also, in one way, the most willfully
strange: Fripp's mix pans the two guitars hard left and hard right to better
illuminate the separate but interlocking parts, but the vocals remain in the
positions they would occupy on stage.  Therefore, you hear Adrian Belew's
guitar to the left but his vocals in the center, and vice versa with Tony
Levin's bass and backing vocals.

5. 1994-96 band - 'BBoom' (2CD), 'Thrakattak' - The first of these is a live
date prior to the recording of the studio album 'Thrak,' representing tht
material well enough and also providing versions of this lineup's take on
previous material, sometimes rather convoluted but certainly acceptable.
The second is more akin to the Grateful Dead's patchwork disc 'Infrared
Roses' in that it isolates the improv sections from performances of the tune
"Thrak' over the course of several performances.  Brilliant moments, but
overall this demonstrates how unconvincing this band was in the area of
Euro-style free improv.

6. 1999-present - 'Heavy ConstruKction' (3CD) - The studio album 'The
ConstruKction of Light' was the first KC release to ever leave me mostly
cold.  But here in a live setting, much of the material really comes to
life.  Even that music which is most referential to earlier works comes off
in a more convincing manner.  And once again, as in 1973-74, the free
improvs are completely convicing.  The third disc is made up entirely of
such improvs, plus a cover version of Bowie's "Heroes."

The King Crimson Collectors Club is highly recommended for hardcore fans.
It costs $96 to join and for that you get 6 releases roughly bimonthly, with
decent art, generally good notes, and the best possible sound restored from
sources ranging from excellent to pretty darn bad.  Every now and then
they'll deviate from the pattern of live releases and instead put out a disc
of studio outtakes, many of which are quite illuminating.  But for me, the
live stuff is the best, and it's here that the reappraisal of the 1971-72
Boz/Collins/Wallace band began.  Particularly exciting was the revelation
that the show taped at Summit Studios in Denver, widely available on boots,
had actually concluded in a cover of Pharoah Sanders's "The Creator Has a
Master Plan," which had not been included on any of the boots.  You can find
out more about the club, hear sound samples, and check out fan reviews and
sound quality ratings at the Discipline Global Mobile website - go to
www.disciplineglobalmobile.com and click on "Club" at the top of the main
page.

The Japanese import box sets of Collectors Club releases are best avoided.
They're too expensive, but more importantly, they're edited, which means you
aren't getting everything that Club members are getting.  Why bother?  The
Club allows you to pick and choose which discs you receive for your $96, so
you can safely collect things by your favorite lineup without being bothered
with stuff you don't want.

(I'm not a representative of DGM, by the way, just a very satisified
customer who hasn't felt the need to add to his copious boot collection
since the club started.)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - The Melvins w/Bliss Blood, "The Man with the Laughing Hand Is Dead,"
'The Crybaby' (Ipecac)
... yes, apparently a new fetish has begun... picked up 'Gluey Porch
Treatments' tonight as well...
NR - Dave Eggers, 'A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius' (Vintage)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:35:03 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Frank Malczewski)
Subject: Re: unconditional love

Good choices, actually.  Though I'd go with "The Kick Inside".

- --Frank

> 2 albums that don't really fit into my collection anymore and that I have
> CONSISTENTLY loved and listened to for many, many years
> and NEVER gotten sick of (to a point where I find it worrisome!) are
>
> 1. Genesis - Lamb lies down on Broadway
> and
> 2. Kate Bush - Hounds of love
>
> mike.
>


> np Joe Morris Quartet - Live at the knitting factory (Tim berne's new
> one on THirsty Ear is in the mail - can't wait)

Curious whether yours plays all the way through without crapping out at
the end (bad CD pressing... though varies from disc to disc)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:35:02 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Frank Malczewski)
Subject: Re: Guilty Choices

Well, I'll chime in on Missing Persons, and throw in Berlin while I'm at
it.   And Garbage for that matter.

Probably most guilty pleasure would be Melanie's Leftover Wine album,
though (wish they hadn't chopped the CD up however, as it's much better
without the abrupt pauses between the you-are-there type of feeling the
LP provided).

I'll throw out Canned Heat just for the hell of it, and Blue Cheer.  And
Flash.  And Frankie Goes To Hollywood.  Not sure if Limp Bizkit and Kid
Rock qualify...  [They should end up on one of my lists somewhere]

- --Frank Malczewski,
currently still trying to hear things properly again nearly a week after
that AC/DC concert... (I think I've managed to pick up just a taste of
some permanent ringing in me ears).

> Jay Mote wrote:
>
> >
> > Guilty Pleasures: Missing Persons,
>
> Ouch - yeah, completely forgot about them in my last mail!
> Also ADORE them! :-)
>
> patRice

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:41:36 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Guilty Choices

ac/dc concert?  so u saw buckcherry too then?  they opened right?  how are
they live?

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:44:33 -0400
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: unconditional love

And I, 'The Dreaming.'

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - The Melvins, "Eye Flys," 'Gluey Porch Treatments' (Ipecac)

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Frank Malczewski

Good choices, actually.  Though I'd go with "The Kick Inside".

- --Frank

> 2 albums that don't really fit into my collection anymore and that I have
> CONSISTENTLY loved and listened to for many, many years
> and NEVER gotten sick of (to a point where I find it worrisome!) are
>
> 1. Genesis - Lamb lies down on Broadway
> and
> 2. Kate Bush - Hounds of love

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:52:52 -0400
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Guilty Choices

You want guilty?  I once paid money and drove over an hour to see Berlin
open for the Thompson Twins.

If I still owned anything by the Thompson Twins - and I do consider it from
time to time - then it would definitely qualify as a guilty pleasure.  Same
with Culture Club (who I didn't have to drive nearly as far to see live).

Never did manage to see Missing Persons, though.  Too bad.  While I can't
really deal with Dale Bozzio anymore, any band with Warren Cuccurullo *and*
Terry Bozzio has to have something going for it.  (I say "any band with
Warren Cuccurullo *and* Terry Bozzio" so that no one reminds me that
Warren's been in Duran Duran for a really long time now, while Terry
recently played with The Knack...)

And I shoulda remembered Cyndi Lauper.

Guiltier by the minute,
Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - The Melvins, "Echo/Don't Piece Me," 'Gluey Porch Treatments' (Ipecac)

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Frank Malczewski

Well, I'll chime in on Missing Persons, and throw in Berlin while I'm at
it.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 02:10:15 -0400
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Guilty Choices

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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You win.  Furthest I ever drove for a show was about four and a half hours,
from San Antonio to Houston for an Einsturzende Neubauten show that started
90 minutes late and lasted 30 minutes before the police shut it down, thanks
to noise ordinances in the neighborhood.

And of course, that's not guilty - just damned frustrating.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - The Melvins, "Big As Mountain," 'Gluey Porch Treatments' (Ipecac)
  -----Original Message-----
  From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
  Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:58 AM
  To: [e-mail]
  Subject: Re: Guilty Choices


  In a message dated 4/18/01 12:55:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
  [e-mail] writes:



    You want guilty?  I once paid money and drove over an hour to see Berlin
    open for the Thompson Twins.



  Drove 8 1/2 hrs to see Goo Goo Dolls. Suffered through Dido and
  Smashmouth...but I love the Dolls...
  Jan

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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D720190306-18042001>You=20
win.  Furthest I ever drove for a show was about four and a half =
hours,=20
from San Antonio to Houston for an Einsturzende Neubauten show that =
started 90=20
minutes late and lasted 30 minutes before the police shut it down, =
thanks to=20
noise ordinances in the neighborhood.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D720190306-18042001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D720190306-18042001>And of=20
course, that's not guilty - just damned frustrating.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D720190306-18042001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D720190306-18042001>Steve=20
Smith</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D720190306-18042001><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></SPAN></FON=
T></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D720190306-18042001>NP -=20
The Melvins, "Big As Mountain," 'Gluey Porch Treatments'=20
(Ipecac)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> [e-mail]=20
  [mailto:[e-mail]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 18, 2001 =
1:58=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> [e-mail]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Guilty=20
  Choices<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
face=3DArial lang=3D0=20
  size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">In a message dated 4/18/01 12:55:51 AM =
Central=20
  Daylight Time, <BR>[e-mail] writes: <BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20
  TYPE=3D"CITE">You want guilty?  I once paid money and drove over =
an hour=20
    to see Berlin <BR>open for the Thompson Twins. <BR></FONT><FONT=20
    color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D3=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
face=3DArial=20
  lang=3D0 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>Drove 8 1/2 hrs to see Goo =
Goo Dolls.=20
  Suffered through Dido and <BR>Smashmouth...but I love the Dolls...=20
  <BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Bradley Hand ITC" lang=3D0 =
size=3D7=20
  FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><B><I>Jan</B></I></FONT> =
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #388
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