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Zorn List Digest      Thursday, January 25 2001      Volume 03 : Number 257



In this issue:
-
       re: Tim Berne recording update / Tony Malaby gigs
       Big Gundown vinyl
       fishin' with john
       thread
       Re: thread
       Re: thread
       Re: thread
       Re[2]: thread
       Re: thread
       Re: [threadgillthread] Re: thread
       some fuel for the fire, perhaps?
       Re: some fuel for the fire, perhaps?
       RE: thread
       Re: some fuel for the fire, perhaps?
       Re: thread

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:47:50 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: re: Tim Berne recording update / Tony Malaby gigs

ssmith said:
and March 7 (Sabino, which is Malaby, Ducret, Formanek
and Rainey).

Steve,

I think you meant DUCRET! DUCRET! DUCRET! DUCRET! DUCRET!

kg
np: beach boys - pet sounds
ps: d'jou get residents tix ss?



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:54:36 -0500
From: "stevespangler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Big Gundown vinyl

I have Big Gundown on vinyl, and I'm willing to sell if you want it--I have the new cd with the extra stuff; I don't really need two copies.

Just email me if interested.

Steve Spangler

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:01:55 -0500
From: "Bob Kowalski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: fishin' with john

Tom Waits episode is great fun, but for my money out of the four I've seen =
the Willem Dafoe episode is tops!  Too bad both of these aren't on the =
same tape.  =20

Bob

np: julie cruise, big night sndtrk and zony mash upper egypt (doin' the =
shuffle)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:07:11 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: thread

jeffcalt:
man, how man albums does he have?  i only have 7 Thread albums (2 ot them w/
Air) but haven't heard of a few of the albums mentioned.  You mind telling us
(or me offline, if you prefer) a little bit more about these albums: which
band?, dates, labels, etc.--and i'll add them to the wish list and scour the
bins for them.  Nice description of his various bands, by the way.  I'm
really curious to hear the Sextett.  And, yes, let's hope that he records
again soon.

ok, i'll try. i'm at work, tho. others are invited to correct and add.

AIR (HT/Fred Hopkins/Steve McCall)
Air Mail - three tracks, dedicated to Cecil Taylor+Jimmy Lyons, Ronnie Boykins
and, uh, someone else
Air Lore - morton/joplin compositions, plus a short version of paille street or
something, which was later recorded by the sextett.
Open Air Suite - very dense, challenging, great record. never on cd, i don't
think.
Air Raid - strong originals set
82 degrees over 80 - stronger originals set
Live Air - quiet, almost ambient ethereal kinda stuff. not entirely grabbing
Air Show No. 1 - post steve mccall (pheroan aklaff sits in), with thread's wife
at the time cassandra wilson contributing vocals. good, and i always like to
hear thread's songs (like, lyric), but not great.

SEXTETT (usually included Deidre Murray (cello), Fred Hopkins (bass), Pheroan
Aklaff and Reggie Nicholson (drums), and trumpet and trombone players like Olu
Dara, Rassul Sadik, Frank Lacy, Craig Harris)
Just the Facts and Pass the Bucket - killer
When Was That? - not as great
Easily Slip into Another World - hazy, crazy, great. his 'revolver', if only in
a substance-use sense
Rag, Bush and All - wicked powerful, deidre shines. only four tracks, so much
more expansive than most
You Know the Number - features an Olu Dara composition (rare instance of a
bandmember composition credit) and lotsa other great stuffs.

VERY VERY CIRCUS
Spirit of 'Nuff 'Nuff - great tracks, murky production, but worth it to hear the
skeleton of the duo-rising-from-the-mire composition structure
Live at Koncept's - better sound, lesser compositions
Too Much Sugar for a Dime - heavily laswellfied, so be forewarned, but
absolutely fantastic disc. all over the place. kill.
Carry the Day - More guest spots, but more focused than Sugar. another great
vocal track, too.
Makin' a Move - great, of course, but feels a bit like more of the same

MAKE A MOVE (HT, Brandon Ross guitar, Stomu Takeishi bass, JT Lewis drums, Tony
Cedras harmonium, accordion)
Where's Your Cup? - essential, his most cohesive band since Air and some of his
most compelling composing.

OTHER
X11-75 (or something) - dense disc with four double basses and, i believe, the
great douglas ewart. not one of his best. never on cd, i don't think.

Song Out of My Trees (Black Saint) - includes two guitar quartets, some great
Amina Claudine Myers and Ted Daniel, and some tracks that sorta precurse make a
move.

i'm gonna be sick about the one i forgot.

HT Fun Fact - with the nit-picky exception of accordian, Thread never uses
another reed player!



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:28:42 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: thread

The one I think you forgot, if I recall correctly, was 'Air Time,' a tremendous LP
on Nessa.  I don't own this but used to have access to it at a college radio
station.  One of the few things I ever considered stealing.

Was there only one New Air disc?  For some reason I thought there might have been
two.  Anyway, I, too, enjoyed the track with Cassandra, "Apricots on Their Wings."

Finally, I'll plug one non-Threadgill release on which he's especially well
represented:  Anthony Braxton's 1978 Arista LP 'For Trio.'  One side with Braxton,
Threadgill and Douglas Ewart, the other with Braxton, Roscoe Mitchell and Joseph
Jarman.  Both play the same composition, but each is quite unlike the other.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Lukas Ligeti, "Propeller Island," 'Immersion' (Starkland DVD)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:51:18 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: thread

    Steve,

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:28:42 -0500  Steve Smith wrote:
>
> [e-mail]
> NP - Lukas Ligeti, "Propeller Island," 'Immersion' (Starkland DVD)

Could you tell us more on this DVD?

    Thanks,

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:12:53 -0500
From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: thread

on 1/25/01 5:07 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail]
unthinkingly blurted:

> which band?, dates, labels, etc.--and i'll add them to the wish list and
> scour the bins for them.

So. You intend to own them all?

> there's been some talk about thread over at the zornlist, and someone wanted a
> discography. apparently there's not one on line anywhere.

Are you going to do one?

Just, y'know, curious...

RL

 ----------
Sessionographies:  CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.
Discographies:  COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN.
Also:
 --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops
 --LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., all at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? :
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html







- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:28:08 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: thread

i have all the ones i mentioned, as well as the one steve smith so kindly added.
i have no plans to compile a discography to put on line (patrice, you don't have
one?), but will add labels and years if someone's serious about making this
available (without my editorial comments, of course)

kg
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: thread
From:    Rick Lopez <[e-mail]> at INTERNET-MAIL
Date:    1/25/01  18:12 Uhr

on 1/25/01 5:07 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail]
unthinkingly blurted:

> which band?, dates, labels, etc.--and i'll add them to the wish list and
> scour the bins for them.

So. You intend to own them all?

> there's been some talk about thread over at the zornlist, and someone wanted a
> discography. apparently there's not one on line anywhere.

Are you going to do one?

Just, y'know, curious...

RL

 ----------
Sessionographies:  CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.
Discographies:  COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN.
Also:
 --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops
 --LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., all at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? :
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html










- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:33:33 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: thread

Thanks for the disco. info. from Steve, Kurt, and whoever else.  I just
discovered that AMG has a surpisingly good disco. as well:
http://allmusic.com/cg/x.dll?p=amg&sql=B131791

[e-mail] writes:
> Was there only one New Air disc?  For some reason I thought there might
have
> been two.

Yeah, I forget if this has been mentioned yet, but I just picked up (at
CyberMusicSurplus for cheap) New Air: Live at the Montreal Int'l Jazz
Festival (1984, Black Saint) recorded July '83.  HT performs on alto,
baritone, and flute.

jeff caltabiano
n.p. henry kaiser & wadada leo smith: yo miles!, disc 2 (1998, shanachie)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:18:49 -0500
From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [threadgillthread] Re: thread

on 1/25/01 7:33 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] unthinkingly
blurted:

> Thanks for the disco. info. from Steve, Kurt, and whoever else.

So obviously the number of recordings isn't *prohibitive* or anything,
right? Then how hard would it be for any (and all) interested parties to
feed me complete info on recordings in their collections? If responses cover
most all of it, I'll do the code and put this baby up.  It would be, as my
arbitrary but useful distinction defines it: a discography-- official
releases only. I'd post a little ditty to these lists outlining the format,
and you guys could fill'em in, send them along, and I'd cut-and-paste myself
half to death, some more.

What say you all?

I need some distraction!!!

RL

 ----------
Sessionographies:  CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.
Discographies:  COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN.
Also:
 --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops
 --LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., all at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? :
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:54:48 -0800
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: some fuel for the fire, perhaps?

Taken from http://www.pbs.org/jazz/about/about_behind_the_scenes4.htm, on
the last episode (you know, the supposed 30-years-in-30-minutes one) --
scroll to the last paragraph.

Episode 10: "A Masterpiece by Midnight"
1960 to the Present

January 31, 2001, 9:00 P.M. (check local listings)

During the Sixties, jazz is in trouble. Critics divide the music into
"schools" - Dixieland, swing, bebop, hard bop, modal, free, avant-garde. But
most young people are listening to rock 'n' roll. Though Louis Armstrong
briefly outsells the Beatles with Hello Dolly, most jazz musicians are
desperate for work and many head for Europe, including bebop saxophone
master, Dexter Gordon.

At home, jazz is searching for relevance. During the Civil Rights struggle,
it becomes a voice of protest. Before his early death, the avant-garde
explorer John Coltrane links jazz to the Sixties quest for a higher
consciousness with his devotional suite, A Love Supreme. And Miles Davis,
after conquering the avant-garde with a landmark quintet, combines jazz with
rock 'n' roll by using electric instruments to launch a wildly popular sound
called Fusion.

In the 1970s, jazz loses the exuberant genius of Louis Armstrong and the
transcendent artistry of Duke Ellington, and for many their passing seems to
mark the end of the music itself. But in 1976, when Dexter Gordon returns
from Europe for a triumphant comeback, jazz has a homecoming, too. Over the
next two decades, a new generation of musicians emerges, led by trumpeter
Wynton Marsalis - schooled in the music's traditions, skilled in the arts of
improvisation, and aflame with ideas only jazz can express. The musical
journey that began in the dance halls and street parades of New Orleans at
the start of the 20th century continues. As it enters its second century,
jazz is still brand new every night, still vibrant, still evolving, and
still swinging.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:57:14 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: some fuel for the fire, perhaps?

On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 07:54:48PM -0800, Benito Vergara wrote:

> mark the end of the music itself. But in 1976, when Dexter Gordon returns
> from Europe for a triumphant comeback, jazz has a homecoming, too. Over the

Burns thinks *Dexter Gordon* saved the world? Yeah, he was a good player
and an OK actor, but...

As Art D'Lugoff useta say (and still may): A roar of drums, a blare of
trumpets, and out steps a Fig Newton.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:20:15 -0500
From: "Toula Ballas" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: thread

Regarding Henry, his big band known as "Society Situation Dance band" is
unrecorded but
easily the most dynamic and creative big band I've ever heard.  This is
truly the shit!!!

Dave Douglas "Charms of the Night Sky" played a splendid set tonight in
Chicago.  Solid compostions
with Dave, Guy, Mark and Greg completely in sync.  Lastly, Nickie Mitchell
is a flutist from Chicago who
currently co-leads groups with Ed Wilkerson and David Boykin.  Plenty of
chops and easy on the eyes.

BLOX




- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
[e-mail]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 5:07 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: thread



jeffcalt:
man, how man albums does he have?  i only have 7 Thread albums (2 ot them w/
Air) but haven't heard of a few of the albums mentioned.  You mind telling
us
(or me offline, if you prefer) a little bit more about these albums: which
band?, dates, labels, etc.--and i'll add them to the wish list and scour the
bins for them.  Nice description of his various bands, by the way.  I'm
really curious to hear the Sextett.  And, yes, let's hope that he records
again soon.

ok, i'll try. i'm at work, tho. others are invited to correct and add.

AIR (HT/Fred Hopkins/Steve McCall)
Air Mail - three tracks, dedicated to Cecil Taylor+Jimmy Lyons, Ronnie
Boykins
and, uh, someone else
Air Lore - morton/joplin compositions, plus a short version of paille street
or
something, which was later recorded by the sextett.
Open Air Suite - very dense, challenging, great record. never on cd, i don't
think.
Air Raid - strong originals set
82 degrees over 80 - stronger originals set
Live Air - quiet, almost ambient ethereal kinda stuff. not entirely grabbing
Air Show No. 1 - post steve mccall (pheroan aklaff sits in), with thread's
wife
at the time cassandra wilson contributing vocals. good, and i always like to
hear thread's songs (like, lyric), but not great.

SEXTETT (usually included Deidre Murray (cello), Fred Hopkins (bass),
Pheroan
Aklaff and Reggie Nicholson (drums), and trumpet and trombone players like
Olu
Dara, Rassul Sadik, Frank Lacy, Craig Harris)
Just the Facts and Pass the Bucket - killer
When Was That? - not as great
Easily Slip into Another World - hazy, crazy, great. his 'revolver', if only
in
a substance-use sense
Rag, Bush and All - wicked powerful, deidre shines. only four tracks, so
much
more expansive than most
You Know the Number - features an Olu Dara composition (rare instance of a
bandmember composition credit) and lotsa other great stuffs.

VERY VERY CIRCUS
Spirit of 'Nuff 'Nuff - great tracks, murky production, but worth it to hear
the
skeleton of the duo-rising-from-the-mire composition structure
Live at Koncept's - better sound, lesser compositions
Too Much Sugar for a Dime - heavily laswellfied, so be forewarned, but
absolutely fantastic disc. all over the place. kill.
Carry the Day - More guest spots, but more focused than Sugar. another great
vocal track, too.
Makin' a Move - great, of course, but feels a bit like more of the same

MAKE A MOVE (HT, Brandon Ross guitar, Stomu Takeishi bass, JT Lewis drums,
Tony
Cedras harmonium, accordion)
Where's Your Cup? - essential, his most cohesive band since Air and some of
his
most compelling composing.

OTHER
X11-75 (or something) - dense disc with four double basses and, i believe,
the
great douglas ewart. not one of his best. never on cd, i don't think.

Song Out of My Trees (Black Saint) - includes two guitar quartets, some
great
Amina Claudine Myers and Ted Daniel, and some tracks that sorta precurse
make a
move.

i'm gonna be sick about the one i forgot.

HT Fun Fact - with the nit-picky exception of accordian, Thread never uses
another reed player!



- -




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:52:29 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: some fuel for the fire, perhaps?

Joseph Zitt wrote:

> Burns thinks *Dexter Gordon* saved the world? Yeah, he was a good player
> and an OK actor, but...

No, to my mind Burns poses Dex as a sort of John the Baptist character, whose
return to the scene paves the way for the young Messiah to come, arisen from the
holy land of New Orleans, the cradle of jazz music.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:26:50 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: thread

"Patrice L. Roussel" wrote:

> > NP - Lukas Ligeti, "Propeller Island," 'Immersion' (Starkland DVD)
>
> Could you tell us more on this DVD?

Sure thing.  It's a new DVD-Audio release from the Starkland label,
featuring 13 pieces composed exclusively for this project, each of which
makes use of the 5.1 surround sound feature that the format allows.  In
other words, the mandate was to create new music that exists truly in
three dimensions, by channeling it into front left and right and
surround left and right (like quadrophonic) plus the center channel and
the sub-woofer channel available in DVD, products of cinema technology.
All of the composers responded to the mandate in very different ways,
some by creating massive spatial swirls of sound, some by placing the
majority of the music in "front" of the listener but with subtle little
details and afterimages "behind," and some used the interference between
channels playing simultaneously to achieve something different
altogether, like Merzbow's colliding noise frequencies or Lukas Ligeti's
teeming counter rhythms in various time signatures.  Pamela Z's rather
literal minded response was essentially a walking tour of her home, with
the voice coming from the direction where she would be speaking if you
were sitting in the center of her apartment blindfolded.

It's a fascinating recording.  So far I have not yet heard the music in
surround sound, just the stereo mixes.  Even so, compositionally it's
impressive (as this lineup would have to be), but there's clearly a
sense that something's missing.  I'm desperately trying to find a place
to hear this in surround before my writing deadline of Monday afternoon,
for the classical music column in Billboard magazine of all things (I've
been writing this for the last few weeks).  Note that this disc won't
play in a CD player at all.

Here's the lineup, all new compositions written in 2000 for this
project:

Pamela Z: Live/Work (5:01)
Bruce Odland: Tank (4:59)
Maggi Payne: White Turbulence 2000 (4:28)
Carl Stone: Luong Hai Ky Mi Gia (4:12)
Phil Kline: The Housatonic at Henry Street (4:52)
Ellen Fullman: Margaret Tuned the Radio in Between Two Stations (5:08)
Lukas Ligeti: Propeller Island (5:00)
Paul Dresher: Steel (5:26)
Pauline Oliveros: Sayonara Sirenade (4:22) - I misspelled this title in
one of my plethora of "NP"s today...
Paul Dolden: Twilight's Dance (4:52)
Merzbow: 2000 (4:56)
Ingram Marshall: Sighs and Murmurs: A SeaSong (5:18)
Meredith Monk: Eclipse Variations (6:11)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Nile, "The Black Flame," 'Black Seeds of Vengeance' (Relapse) -
thanks again, Jeroen!





- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #257
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