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2001-01-15
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #244
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, January 16 2001 Volume 03 : Number 244
In this issue:
-
20th Century's most important musicians
Re: 20th Century's most important musicians
Re: 20th Century's most important musicians
Re: 20th Century's most important musician
Re: 20th Century's most important musicians
Re: 20th Century's most important musicians
zorn radio hour
knitting factory ordering
Re: 20th Century's most important musicians
New music in RealAudio on this week's Mappings
Re: New Zorn?/Too many reissues?
Re: Tim Berne Recommendations?
Re: 20th Century's most important musicians
some Feldman and a little Hyla
Bobby Previte & Tim Berne & Sound of Market
Re: New Zorn?/Too many reissues?
Berne's JMT, Parker, Tyler
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:14:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca>
Subject: 20th Century's most important musicians
Hi fellow obsessives:
Now that even the most persnickety among us have
conceded that we're in a new millennium, maybe we
could discuss who we think were the most important and
influential musicians of the past century.
This isn't a Top Ten List: that includes too many
names, nor a Poll, I, for one am not going to keep
track of the "winners". What would be more
interesting, though, would be a discussion --or maybe
even a consensus -- about these musicians.
Note we're not talking about our favorites, or the
most popular musos, but the people who affected music
more than any others.
I propose to divide the century in two and suggest one
musician per genre for each 50 years. I'm not
interested enough in rock-pop or its various splinters
and offshoots to think about it, but for bedrock
music, my suggestions are below. What do others think?
Ken Waxman
Jazz/Improvised Music 1st 50 years: Louis Armstrong
2nd 50 years: Cecil Taylor
Country music: 1st 50 years: Jimmy Rogers
2nd 50 years: Hank Williams
Blues: 1st 50 years: Robert Johnson
2nd 50 years: Ray Charles
(so-called) Classical: 1st 50 years: Igor Stravinsky
2nd 50 years: John Cage
_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:32:46 EST
From: Samerivertwice@aol.com
Subject: Re: 20th Century's most important musicians
Using your categories, here are my picks:
> Jazz/Improvised Music 1st 50 years: Louis Armstrong
> 2nd 50 years: Ornette Coleman
>
> Country music: 1st 50 years: Jimmy Rogers
> 2nd 50 years: Hank Williams
>
> Blues: 1st 50 years: Robert Johnson
> 2nd 50 years: B.B. King
>
> (so-called) Classical: 1st 50 years: Igor Stravinsky
> 2nd 50 years: John Cage
Pop: 1st 50 years: Irving Berlin or George Gershwin
2nd 50 years: The Beatles
Rock: 1st 50 years: there was no rock and roll, but the earliest SUPERSTAR
and influence was probably Elvis Presley
2nd 50 years: Led Zeppelin
Folk: 1st 50 years: Woody Guthrie
2nd 50 years: Bob Dylan
Tom D.
________________________________________________
The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage
perhaps in music, because that art contains no material
to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value,
and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses.
--Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:09:58 -0500
From: Matt Laferty <bg60009@binghamton.edu>
Subject: Re: 20th Century's most important musicians
The only thing that I'd add is that if Elvis belongs to the first 50 years of
the century, then undoubtably, so does Hank Williams, his biggest moment was
around 49-50. Hank provided the "legend" of country more than the sound...
Certainly Hank was beloved, especially by me, but in terms of the impact and
influence on country, three names pop to mind:
1. Chet Atkins --besides producing most of Capitol's classic country, he
provided the popular aesthetic (but his music is less satisfying at times).
2. Ernest Tubb --provided the vocal sound for most of country music following
him, although many singers like Faron Young had their "hank sound alike" period
3. Merle Travis --updated the Carter guitar sound and provided a roadmap for
many guitar pickers after him
oh, and can't forget
4. Bill Monroe -- dude did "invent" (and that's a loaded statement that I don't
entirely believe, but it's pretty convincing) bluegrass--which provides the
training ground for many of country's biggest stars and can still sort of claim
to be a "people's music"
With this crowd, I'm not going to contradict Ken or Tom on Jazz, since I
essentially agree, but in terms of impact, Miles Davis seems to have a lot
going for him ("cool" "fusion" acting as a kind of bridge between Parker and
Coltrane)...mind you. However, I don't want to be part of Wynton's attempts to
make the trumpet the main instrument of Jazz, as my Television told me...
best to all,
matt
Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote:
> Using your categories, here are my picks:
>
> > Jazz/Improvised Music 1st 50 years: Louis Armstrong
> > 2nd 50 years: Ornette Coleman
> >
> > Country music: 1st 50 years: Jimmy Rogers
> > 2nd 50 years: Hank Williams
> >
> > Blues: 1st 50 years: Robert Johnson
> > 2nd 50 years: B.B. King
> >
> > (so-called) Classical: 1st 50 years: Igor Stravinsky
> > 2nd 50 years: John Cage
>
> Pop: 1st 50 years: Irving Berlin or George Gershwin
> 2nd 50 years: The Beatles
>
> Rock: 1st 50 years: there was no rock and roll, but the earliest SUPERSTAR
> and influence was probably Elvis Presley
> 2nd 50 years: Led Zeppelin
>
> Folk: 1st 50 years: Woody Guthrie
> 2nd 50 years: Bob Dylan
>
> Tom D.
>
> ________________________________________________
> The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage
> perhaps in music, because that art contains no material
> to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value,
> and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses.
>
> --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:41:51 -0800
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re: 20th Century's most important musician
>>>but in terms of impact, Miles Davis seems to have a lot
going for him<<<
amen
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:58:30 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: 20th Century's most important musicians
> With this crowd, I'm not going to contradict Ken or Tom on Jazz, since I
> essentially agree, but in terms of impact, Miles Davis seems to have a lot
> going for him ("cool" "fusion" acting as a kind of bridge between Parker
and
> Coltrane)...mind you.
On this topic, who would people consider to have had the most impact on
jazz? I'd guess Armstrong, Parker, Davis, Coltrane and Coleman to be there
for sure, probably Monk and Mingus too, but who else would fill out say a
top ten?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:23:58 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: 20th Century's most important musicians
On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 02:58:30PM +1100, Julian wrote:
> On this topic, who would people consider to have had the most impact on
> jazz? I'd guess Armstrong, Parker, Davis, Coltrane and Coleman to be there
> for sure, probably Monk and Mingus too, but who else would fill out say a
> top ten?
It depends on what you call jazz. But I would include Cecil Taylor and
maybe Albert Ayler. And maybe whoever we can blame "smooth jazz" on.
And perhaps, collectively, the AACM.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:14:53 EST
From: Orangejazz@aol.com
Subject: zorn radio hour
does anyone on this list have the setlist for John Zorn Radio Hour?
from,
mattt
(http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:47:35 -0500
From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com>
Subject: knitting factory ordering
The KF website promises the three for $30 sale that Steve mentioned but
I've never been able to figure out if that's everything or certain older
releases. I emailed them in early December but there was no reply & I had
other things to do. Any ideas?
Lang
- -------------------------------------------
Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm
Outsider Music Mailing List
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm
Documentary Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm
Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:55:18 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: 20th Century's most important musicians
At 10:23 PM 1/15/01 -0500, Joseph Zitt wrote:
>On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 02:58:30PM +1100, Julian wrote:
>
>> On this topic, who would people consider to have had the most impact on
>> jazz? I'd guess Armstrong, Parker, Davis, Coltrane and Coleman to be there
>> for sure, probably Monk and Mingus too, but who else would fill out say a
>> top ten?
>
>It depends on what you call jazz. But I would include Cecil Taylor and
>maybe Albert Ayler. And maybe whoever we can blame "smooth jazz" on.
>And perhaps, collectively, the AACM.
Don't forget Duke Ellington.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.
- -- Satchel Paige
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:37:18 -0600
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: New music in RealAudio on this week's Mappings
Hi y'all,
This week you'll hear music made from the sounds of cooking, dining
and washing up by Steve Beresford, Amy Denio, Fast Forward, Elsa
Justel, Guy Klucevsek, Paul Lansky, and Daniel Lentz, on Mappings.
The show went online approximately 10 pm PST (GMT -0700) on Monday
January 15, 2001 and will be available for about a week at
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index.htm>.
Hope to see you there then.
Bests,
Herb
- --
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147
817 377-2983
herb@eskimo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:10:49 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: New Zorn?/Too many reissues?
I don't think you're wrong at all. What's more, all
the Spanish fans I know are beguinning to get tired of
reissues of old material, either unreleased or
previously released. One fine example of that was
"Godard/Spillane". I found the relase and the fact of
putting these two pieces together very suitable. Most
of the people were negatively surprised.
For instance, I have nothing against the Masada lives,
but I'm beguinning "not to look forward" to them.
Zorn said in a Spanish magazine interview that he had
been composing for too long, and that was too lonely
an activity that had prevented him from seeing his
friends and playing with them.
The interview took place several years ago and now it
seems that we're all suffering his "reissue fever". If
I find the time I will be glad to transcrip his exact
words for the list so everyone can sort of find an
explanation for this lack of new works.
Regards.
EfrΘn
_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Consiga gratis su direcci≤n @yahoo.es en http://correo.yahoo.es
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:35:21 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: Tim Berne Recommendations?
Everything from the Screwgun label is terrific. Make
sure to check also Marc Ducret's "L'Ombra di Verdi".
This French trio is more than amazing.
Bloodcount's first works at JMT (the praised 3-volume
of "Live in Paris")were quite more "boring" or at
least less dynamic. These records never made a dent on
me so I wouldn't recommend them.
One of Berne's best albums in my opinion is "Big
Satan" (Winter & Winter) -with Ducret and the amazing
Tom Rainey.
Michael Formanek's is perhaps less edgy but don't
doubt to give a try with "The Nature of The Beast"
(Enja)-features Jim Black, Tony Malaby, Tim Berne,
Dave Douglas, ...
See you,
EfrΘn
_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Consiga gratis su direcci≤n @yahoo.es en http://correo.yahoo.es
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:44:38 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: 20th Century's most important musicians
I entirely agree. I'm not much into country so my
opinion wouldn't be useful.
However, there are some names that I think need to
appear in a sort of XX century top-list: John Coltrane
has been, in my opinion, much more valuable for jazz
music than Cecil Taylor. I don't mean that Taylor
hasn't brought new visions to improvised music but
Trane's overall career is probably more trascendent.
I think that Free Jazz has also a main name: Ornette
Coleman. Maybe Albert Ayler too.
Nowadays pop-rock music takes always into account The
Velvet Underground. I don't like all of their works
but I must admit that their music has been essential
for many current pop groups. Clearly one of them is
Sonic Youth, which should also appear in that
top-list.
What about Frank Zappa? I don't know why but many
people seem to have forgotten about him.
_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Consiga gratis su direcci≤n @yahoo.es en http://correo.yahoo.es
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 06:51:31 -0500
From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com>
Subject: some Feldman and a little Hyla
Loads of music by Morton Feldman will be heard in Boston over the next few
weeks:
Monday, Jan. 22 - Stephen Drury plays "For Bunita Marcus" (along with Lee
Hyla's "Riff and Transfiguration") in Jordan Hall, 8pm
Thursday, Feb. 1 - Barbara Lieurance and John Latartara play/discuss "Palais
de Mari"
in Williams Hall, 4pm
Monday, Feb. 5 - Louis Goldstein plays "Triadic Memories" in Jordan Hall, 8pm
and, of course, "Piano and String Quartet" coming up April 9.
All events free at New England Conservatory, 290 Huntington Ave. in Boston.
- --steve
newly remodeled! -
http://www.stephendrury.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 07:29:28 -0500
From: "Alan Kayser" <alankayser@hotmail.com>
Subject: Bobby Previte & Tim Berne & Sound of Market
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:41:13 EST
From: Nudeants@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tim Berne Recommendations?
For anyone remotely in the Philadelphia area, Sound of Market on 11th St.,
just south of Market St., has a few of the JMT discs; they've been there
since they first arrived in the store. The Miniature disc is there, as is
Nice View and a couple others, I believe.
No, I don't work there, BTW. The amount of dough I've sunk into that store
is considerble, though!
- - -matt mitchell
Well, I did work there, and in fact it was the birthplace of Sweetnighter
Productions, our Philadelphia based jazz promotion "company." My buddy
Craig Baylor and I created Sweetnighter (thank you Joe Zawinul, Miroslav
Vitous, Wayne Shorter) to bring "avant-cuuting edge-creative" jazz artists
to an otherwise starved for it Philadelphia. We decided that S.P. would
produce only people that we 1)would pay to see ourselves 2)and/or jazz folks
we knew. We were fortunate to know many people in the industry, including
media like Nate Chinen and Russ Woessner from the literary world, Mike
Harrison from radio, and others. So, we had ready access for exposure. And
through good folks like Steve Smith we were able to meet many New York based
musicians like Bobby, Tim, etc. So prospects for Sweetnighter looked good.
I spent many nights listening to various groupings of Bobby's, and got to
know him on a conversational basis. There were nights when The Horse played
at the Izzy Bar and if I wasn't there they would have been playing to an
empty room. I did three nights of Bobby's 20 year retrospective at the
Knitting Factory, where only the Zorn duo came close to filling the place.
Other shows featured the best of New York's Downtowners, mostly playing to a
small gathering of devoted BP fans. We produced shows for Pachora, Ken
Vandermark, Joe Morris, Dave Douglas, Gerry Hemingway, Andy Laster, Steve
Lacy, Myra Melford, and Philadelphia guys like Uri Caine, Bobby Zankel,
Elliot Levin & Tyrone Hill, and others like William Parker's In Order to
Survive and Other Dimensions in Music.I think our list was impressive. But,
where was the audience? So, it is not surprising to me that as great a
composer, arranger, and musician that Bobby is that he can't get a deal. Do
I blame the record companies. No, they are in the business of selling, and
if it doesn't sell out it goes. I blame those New Yorkers, Philadelphians,
and others that are just too lazy to get off their butts and go pay to see
these people. A perfect example is Uri, a long time friend of mine. Uri
produced two terrific JMT recordings when no one knew who he was. Nothing.
Then came Mahler, which was first released in Europe, hit it big, then had
to wait for American distribution. We produced a Mahler show for Uri right
in his home town. It got plenty of media exposure, yet we had to dig in our
pockets to cover expenses because of the lack of an audience. Sorry for all
the hot air, but the reality folks is if we want to hear what Bobby Previte
is doing these days, and I for one am a huge fan of his from way back in the
Claude's Late Morning days, then go out and support the shows and buy the
cds. Don't complain about record companies, we all know what they are
about. Support your local musicians, they bring us lots of pleasure, so dig
in your pockets, folks!!! And turn off the tube.
Alan Kayser
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:59:28 +0100
From: Rob Allaert <Rob@llaert.NU>
Subject: Re: New Zorn?/Too many reissues?
> efr=E9n del valle:
> If I find the time I will be glad to transcrip his exact
> words for the list so everyone can sort of find an
> explanation for this lack of new works.
=20
Please proceed ;-)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:26:04 -0400
From: mwoodwor <mwoodwor@is2.dal.ca>
Subject: Berne's JMT, Parker, Tyler
Hey, for those of you out there who are eager to scoop up one of Berne's
deleted JMT discs don't sweat - you'll find them one way or another. For
example, a couple of years ago I spent some time in a small (3000 people)
japanese rice village in Hokkaido, Japan. One day I went to the local
shopping market/dept. store with a lady that I was teaching english (that
would be the equivalent to a Wall-Market/ k-Mart/etc. kind of store here in
NOrth America). Needless to say I was bored out of my skull while she did her
shopping (a variety of foods, many of which I never came to recognize or
identify). I decided for kicks I would look through a discount bin of
Japanese CD's (mostly things considered to awful and cheesy even by their
cheesy pop standards, some of which is admittedly very entertaining) primarily
to look at all of the funny titles and covers. Well, I'm sure you all know
where this is leading.... my eyes suddenly came to rest on A CD spine that
although written in Kanji, said at the top "JMT". When I grabbed the CD up to
look at it, it was Tim Berne's Fractured Fairy Tales, By chance the one Tim
Berne recording I was still actively looking for on CD at the time!!! To top
it off, it was equivalent of about 8 canadian dollars, which in Japanese terms
of price is next to nothing. Sooooo.... the moral of the story is, 'lookout
for hope' (mmmmmm...haven't I heard that somewhere before!?!).
As for Evan Parker rec's I would day definitely start with Evan Parker's 50th
Birthday Party on Leo records, it's a double and you get a chance to hear him
with his ever amazing trio, and with the Schlippenbach trio. Amazing stuff.
Also, is anyone else as impressed with Charles Tyler's - 'Voyage From Jericho'
as me? Awesome album, the drummer - Steve Reid, is nearly incomprehensible.
Wudz
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #244
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