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2000-10-13
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #113
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Saturday, October 14 2000 Volume 03 : Number 113
In this issue:
-
ornette
looking4songlines (delete if that's not you)
Re: ornette
New Sale/Trade list
Filmworks 9?
zbigniew karkowski
RE: zbigniew karkowski
NYU's Downtown New York Collection
Most important Zorn contribution?
Re: Most important Zorn contribution?
don Byron & sly stone
Re: Most important Zorn contribution?
winant/solo/.xenakis
Re: Most important Zorn contribution?
Re: Most important Zorn contribution?
Re: Re: Most important Zorn contribution?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:35:30 -0700
From: "Martin Wisckol" <Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com>
Subject: ornette
>I'd say the best all-around introduction would be "In All Languages",
this is a good compromise to get a little taste of the different styles of
ornette, and is one of his more accessible. but as with many compromises,
you sacrifice some depth.
why not start with "change of the century" or "shape of jazz to come" for
the acoustic band? (although it wouldn't be a risk to just buy the
complete atlantic ornette, a brilliant box set including these two
classics and much more.)
as for electric stuff, after the last discussion i believe that "of human
feelings" is now my favorite prime time. did we decide that was OOP? so
then, might try "virgin beauty" (more accessible) or "dancing in your
head" (half of it with the master musicians of joujoukam right?)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:39:03 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: looking4songlines (delete if that's not you)
sorry everyone else.
there used to be a fellow from songlines on the list. are you still here (sorry,
forgot your name)? drop me a line if yeah.
thanks,
kg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:26:45 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: ornette
On Fri, Oct 13, 2000 at 10:35:30AM -0700, Martin Wisckol wrote:
>
> >I'd say the best all-around introduction would be "In All Languages",
> this is a good compromise to get a little taste of the different styles of
> ornette, and is one of his more accessible. but as with many compromises,
> you sacrifice some depth.
>
> why not start with "change of the century" or "shape of jazz to come" for
> the acoustic band? (although it wouldn't be a risk to just buy the
> complete atlantic ornette, a brilliant box set including these two
> classics and much more.)
Well, we were asked for a single recommendation. Sure, I'd say to go for
any of the early Atlantic recordings plus "Of Human Feelings" (which is,
indeed, OOP -- I got a Japanese CD of it on eBay) for a multi-disc view.
And at about 71 minutes, I think it contains as much music as the ~36
minute "Of Human Feelings" plus either of the early discs at the price
of a single disc. And I don't hear any "compromises" in the strong
playing and writing on it.
> as for electric stuff, after the last discussion i believe that "of human
> feelings" is now my favorite prime time. did we decide that was OOP? so
> then, might try "virgin beauty" (more accessible) or "dancing in your
> head" (half of it with the master musicians of joujoukam right?)
Well, there's only about 9 minutes of the Master Musicians of Jajouka
on the recent reissue (including a track not on the original).
Apparently a whole lotta tape exists from these sessions (is Ornette
hanging on to it or is Sony?) but these snippets are all that have been
released.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:36:06 -0400
From: "Nirav Soni" <nirav@ink19.com>
Subject: New Sale/Trade list
Money folks: I'm needing it, and you have it. Some of these are in some sort
of special promotional packaging, and they're marked with a *. All of these
are cds and are $9ppd. Buy 3, take a dollar off. Buy 5 or more, take $2 off.
I can give tracklistings, info even reiews occasionally. Or, I'm open to
offers as well. I'm looking for all sorts of music, improv, jazz, field
recordings, compostion, glitch, electoacoustics, breakcore, IDM, post-rock,
drone, noise
loud, soft, *hip-hop* etc. Stuff on Schematic, Trente Oiseaux, Ritornell,
Mille
Plateaux, For 4 Ears, and MANY others. I've got a big wantlist, but PLEASE
make offers of what you have. I'm open to offers of good movies and books
(esp. Douglas Kahn's "Noise Water Meat") too.
Oh yeah, I'll trade any 70 of these for the Merzbox :-)
Metal
Candiria- The Process of Self-Development
* Cradle of Filth- Midian
Cream Abdul Babar- Buried in Broken Glass
Death- Human (Japanese import w/extra track according to booklet)
Godflesh- Us & Them
* In Flames- Colony
* In Flames- Clayman
* In Aeturnum- The Pestilential Plague
* Mayhem- Grand Declaration of War
Jazz/Improv/Blues:
Clusone Trio- I Am an Indian
Briggan Krauss- Descending to End
Kip Hanrahan- Desire Develops an Edge
Joe Morris/Mat Maneri- [soul search]
Joe Morris Quartet- At the Old Office
John Randall Pelosi- Plus Ultra
* Lee Ranaldo- Dirty Windows
Matthew Shipp- Symbol Systems
Matthew Shipp w/ William Parker- DNA
Matthew Shipp Trio- Circular Temple
Tronzo/Granelli/Epstein- Crunch
Vandermark 5- Simpatico
Composition:
Henryk G≥reki- Symphony #3
John Hudak- Don't Worry About Anything, I'll Talk to You Tomorrow
Ikue Mori- B-Side
Ennio Moricone- A Fistful of Filmmusic
Arvo Part- Te Deum
David Shea- The Prisoner
David Shea- I
David Shea- Satyricon
Shea/Rimbaud/Hampson- Live in London
Cheers,
Nirav
AIM: Icefactory37
- --
OnNow- Gordon Mumma- Studio Retrospective
"Don't try to make me consistent. I am learning all the time." - R.
Buckminster Fuller
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:45:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Theo Klaase <river_of_dogs@yahoo.com>
Subject: Filmworks 9?
I see at cheap-cds.com that Filmworks 9 will be
released in late November... Now that's exciting!
=====
- -That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, hello milky way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:39:05 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: zbigniew karkowski
there was some talk of him here recent, yeah? someone give me the lowdown,
background, etc. please? and helmut schlafer, if you would.
thanks.
kg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:32:04 -0400
From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet)
Subject: RE: zbigniew karkowski
At 04:39 PM 10/13/00 -0500, kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote:
>there was some talk of him here recent, yeah? someone give me the lowdown,
>background, etc. please? and helmut schlafer, if you would.
Don't know if he was discussed on the zorn-list, and I'm not too familiar
with him, but if you have some time to lose this afternoon you should be
able to find some info at the following links.
http://bek.no : there was something named lockup666 (or something like
that) some months ago, karkowski, merzbow, and a few other noise persons
locked themselves up for a few days in the buildings of bek.no, I believe,
at the end of which they performed live on the net. I can't connect to
bek.no now but last time I looked the stream was archived.
http://fals.ch : I know there are some releases (mp3) there.
http://www.nd.org/oro/zk1.html : just found this, I don't know what it is.
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/karkowski.html : "Karkowksi studied
music in Sweden and the Netherlands, worked at Steim studios and was an
active member of The Hafler Trio and Phauss for years. He works actively as
a composer of both instrumental music -- he has written among others two
pieces for large orchestra, both commissioned and performed by Gothenburg
Symphony Orchestra, an opera and several chamber music pieces which were
performed by professional ensembles in Sweden, Poland and Germany -- and
electro-acoustic media. Besides working as a composer of contemporary music
he has been collaborating with several experimental groups/artists such as
Blixa Bargeld, Merzbow, Stelarc, Z'ev, John Duncan, Granular Synthesis,
John Rose, Digital Primate, Cosmic Trigger, PITT, Mental Hackers,
Fleshquartet, Ulf Bilting (etc.) , and has worked on remixing bands like
Clock DVA, Blue for Two and Phauss. Since December 1993 he has been an
active member of the Sensorband. Karkowski also recently formed the unit
Mazk with Masami Akita of Merzbow."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:15:34 -0400
From: Jeni Dahmus <jdahmus@exchange.juilliard.edu>
Subject: NYU's Downtown New York Collection
Recently I became acquainted with the Downtown New York Collection of New
York University's Fales Library and Special Collections. I would like to
share information about the collection with the list. The Downtown
collection is a valuable resource that documents the New York avant-garde,
1975 to present. All mediums are represented, including literature, art
work, comics, performance art, and music (particularly punk and electronic
music). NYU is one of the few institutions to document the downtown scene.
Researchers must make appointments to access materials.
More detailed information, snipped from a recent Fales Library announcement:
"In 1995 The Fales Library and Special Collections at New York University
began a collecting project to document the downtown New York arts scene that
developed in SoHo during the mid-1970s and moved to the Lower East Side in
the 1980s. The Downtown collection, as it has come to be known, attempts to
document as thoroughly as possible the vibrant outsider arts scene that was
tied theoretically to post-structuralism and postmodernism and that saw the
creation of outsider galleries, performance art, punk, and a host of other
intermedia art works. The collection currently contains over 8000 printed
volumes, 300 periodical titles, and some 1200 linear feet of archives and
personal papers. Included in the collection are such artists and writers as
David Wojnarowicz, Dennis Cooper, Lynne Tillman, Kathy Acker, Karen Finley,
Spalding Gray, Gary Indiana, Art Speigelman, and a host of others.
Performance spaces and magazines are represented by such collections as the
Judson Memorial Church Archive, the Fashion Moda Archive, the High Risk
Books Archive, the Between C&D Archive and the Redtape Archive. We have made
every attempt to collect the scene on its own terms rather than forcing
sometime difficult materials to conform to standardized processing
procedures. We are collecting in nearly every medium, including works of art
and performance documentation. As such, the collection represents an attempt
at postmodern archival practice, in keeping with the content of the
materials themselves."
For further information, please see:
"Kicking Culture, Fragments from the Downtown Scene, 1975-Present" online
exhibit
www.nyu.edu/library/bobst/research/fales/expub.htm
Fales Library site, includes links to selected finding aids
www.nyu.edu/library/bobst/research/fales
Jeni Dahmus
(not affiliated with NYU, but admittedly envious of the archivists who work
with the Downtown collection)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:38:45 EDT
From: User384726@aol.com
Subject: Most important Zorn contribution?
I was recently discussing with a friend some of Zorn's music and he tends to
feel that he can get what I get from Zorn from other people. He's not saying
that Zorn lacks originality but he doesn't feel Zorn is taking music to
places it has never been. While I strongly disagree I was wondering what
specific pieces or albums other list members feel are his most important
contributions, not necessarily your favorite album.
Thanks,
Aaron Solomon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:49:53 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Most important Zorn contribution?
> I was recently discussing with a friend some of Zorn's music and he tends
to
> feel that he can get what I get from Zorn from other people. He's not
saying
> that Zorn lacks originality but he doesn't feel Zorn is taking music to
> places it has never been. While I strongly disagree I was wondering what
> specific pieces or albums other list members feel are his most important
> contributions, not necessarily your favorite album.
I have a friend who said a similar thing, but actually went so far as to say
he would never listen to Zorn if he could have 'the original'. Anyway, I
would say Spillane and a few of the Naked City albums (maybe Torture Garden
and the self-titled) for me are his most important contributions. I think
Masada is one of the most amazing and interesting jazz groups in a long
while. A lot of the classical stuff, although good to listen to is not
essential considering it seems to be an extension of the work of composers
like Boulez and Messaien... But lastly, I think his work as an arranger is
important, so also maybe The Big Gundown...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:42:13 EDT
From: Acousticlv@aol.com
Subject: don Byron & sly stone
<<
The program's called "Contrasting Brilliance" and is made up of the
music of... Sly Stone AND Henry Mancini. Only Byron...>>
dear steve,
actually, it sounds like one of the Residents'
"great American composers" series,
like the one that had one side a sousa tribute
and the other side james brown. or was that the gershwin and...
re sly stone: i am desperately searching for a recording
of sly live at the texas int'l pop festival, even tho im told
the performance is terrible.
i have a diff live concert with sly doing an extended
'youre the one' which is slammin...
also a rumor went around ages ago that columbia, when it first
put out sly on CD, did a mistake and put out alternate takes
which was quickly withdrawn.... any confirmations or info?
i do know one of their samplers which i own
has an extended (not disco) version
of 'thank you fa lettinme be mice elf'
although it appears to be looped rather than a
longer or diferent take. (while moping non-zornly,
why didnt polygram put the 12" extended "wavelength"
of the remastered van morrison of the same name)
steve koenig
LaFolia.com; Jazzweekly.com; SiggyToNoiz
np: KK Null: GeV (Staalplaat/Soleilmoon)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:14:55 EDT
From: Nudeants@aol.com
Subject: Re: Most important Zorn contribution?
In a message dated 10/13/00 10:51:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au writes:
<< I was recently discussing with a friend some of Zorn's music and he tends
to
> feel that he can get what I get from Zorn from other people. He's not
saying
> that Zorn lacks originality but he doesn't feel Zorn is taking music to
> places it has never been. While I strongly disagree I was wondering what
> specific pieces or albums other list members feel are his most important
> contributions, not necessarily your favorite album.
>>
I'd say Torture Garden and Absinthe (MAYBE Heretic), and probably Elegy.
Most of the later game pieces I've heard usually manifest themselves in terms
of genre-jumping fests, and therefore aren't as essential for me. However
the old ones from the Parachute Years are quite good and 'original.' The
Masada stuff may be popular but certainly not groundbreaking (not to mention
one album would have been quite enough, though I'm sure that's oft-argued
territory here).
- -matt mitchell
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:19:04 EDT
From: Acousticlv@aol.com
Subject: winant/solo/.xenakis
<<- - William Winant (even directly list-relevant!)
I don't know of any solo work by him..b>>
i know i have more somewhere,
but there's a vinyl 7" of winant doing
xenakis' "psappha" cat# e-x119et
on the label Dolor de Estomago,
(which translates to "stomach ache")
purportedly from the state of Tamaulipas in Mexico.
Although Mexico City is my second home,
and have a series of articles abt mexican music
(incl jazz & prog & weirder stuff) at LaFolia.com,
i bought my copy at Other Music a few yrs ago.
steve koenig
n.p.: stockhausen "kontakte": wm winant & james tenney
(ecstatic peace! E#87)
& german bringas w/frith and cutler "elk engrane amarillo"
(smogless/jazzorca records, mexico city)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:05:38 EDT
From: Samerivertwice@aol.com
Subject: Re: Most important Zorn contribution?
In a message dated 10/14/00 11:16:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Nudeants@aol.com writes:
<< The
Masada stuff may be popular but certainly not groundbreaking (not to mention
one album would have been quite enough, though I'm sure that's oft-argued
territory here).
-matt mitchell >>
"Not groundbreaking" -- agreed. "One album...enough" -- I couldn't disagree
more. Bring on ten more albums, I say. Should Miles Davis have stopped at
"Kind of Blue"? Should Ornette have stopped at "Free Jazz"?
Tom
________________________________________________
The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage
perhaps in music, because that art contains no material
to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value,
and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses.
--Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:44:46 EDT
From: Nudeants@aol.com
Subject: Re: Most important Zorn contribution?
In a message dated 10/14/00 12:07:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Samerivertwice@aol.com writes:
<< "Not groundbreaking" -- agreed. "One album...enough" -- I couldn't
disagree
more. Bring on ten more albums, I say. Should Miles Davis have stopped at
"Kind of Blue"? Should Ornette have stopped at "Free Jazz"?
>>
No, and they didn't. Yet, neither Miles nor Ornette made over a dozen more
albums after those that sounded EXACTLY the same, not to mention that the
music is not even comparable, or that large portions of Masada sound exactly
like Ornette retreads anyway.
- -matt mitchell
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:23:04 EDT
From: Velaires@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Most important Zorn contribution?
SPILLANE is still the groundbreaker for me on a personal level. I heard that
right when it came out, and it stopped me dead in my tracks. Here was a guy
who took all kinds of styles I knew about, and put them together in a way I
had never known you could do things. The first Naked City kind of
strengthened my feeling that Zorn was to be taken really seriously.
I could be getting nostalgiac for certain stuff about that period, because a
lot of records that really affected my outlook -- Prince's LOVESEXY, the
first fIREHOSE album, Tim Berne's FULTON ST MAUL, and a few other things --
all came out around then and I was really enthusiastic about it, in that way
you get enthusiastic at the age of about 21. But SPILLANE was kind of a SGT
PEPPER record to me.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #113
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