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Zorn List Digest       Saturday, August 26 2000       Volume 03 : Number 028



In this issue:
-
       newcomer
       Re: Tzadik /other labels
       Odp: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
       Re: genres (was Tzadik)
       Recent Goodies (long)
       Re: genres (was Tzadik)
       Fwd: [rumori] consume ground zero!; was: Re: korean music - kim suk chul?
       Re: labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:34:35 +0200
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: newcomer

Hi

I'm new on the list so recommended on the "AvantGarde" list.
Now only lurkin'  but don't wanna be undisclosed :)))
Greetings to old friends from Avant /lot of folks I see/ and to the new
friends.
Discussion seems to be very diverse and exciting, real "food for thoughts"

Jerzy Matysiakiewicz
[e-mail]


NP - Beaver & Krause "In a Wild Sanctuary/Gandharva/


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:31:27 GMT
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels

Hey,

>>>In a message dated 8/25/00 3:53:18 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>>>there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my >>>mind,
>>>much more radical music than Tzadik is.
>>
>>Such as?
>
>this question wasn't directed to me, but here's my quickly compiled >list:

Eh, nobody has mentioned the great and truly pioneering Incus Records!?

ARTHUR_G
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:55:20 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)

From: Jesse Kudler <[e-mail]>

> From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
> > I think it's less marketing, more cult of personality and a general
> willingness
> > on our part to trust what Zorn's promoting and vote with our dollars.
>
> Well, yeah, but I think establishing that cult of personality and tying it
> to the label so much *is* marketing.  Cf. the executive producer credits.

I agree with both of you. Jesse seems to be right in saying that it is
marketing - i often buy (or at least consider buying - a Tzadik CD costs
about 20 USD in Poland) Tzadik CDs because thaey're 'Zorn-recommended'. And
it is marketing - if i remember correctly, one of the comany's goals is to
help to promote the artists who would remain unknown. But, contary to most
marketing strategies I know, i find it very correct. Normally marketing goes
along the lines of 'buy it and you're gonna make some funny things with that
chick from the third row!'. Here it's different (and here is the major
difference between big labels and independent ones).

> > "Marketing" suggests the expenditure of time and often money to concoct
> ways of
> > selling things to people.  My sense of Tzadik is more of a guy with some
> money
> > and a lot of ideas sitting around thinking, "Wouldn't it be cool to have
> THAT
> > on my shelf?" and then substituting the word "label" for "shelf"...
> Perhaps.  I was just annoyed by this idea that Tzadik is in any way
> struggling or that it's strictly a money-losing labor of love.  If you
like
> the records, of course you should buy them, but I don't think buying a
> record on Tzadik is really supporting a tiny little indie who puts out
music
> without eyes on financial gain.  Nothing wrong with that necessarily, but
> that's the way it is.  And if you really want to vote with your dollars,
> there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much
> more radical music than Tzadik is.

    Well, and here we achieve a point that i find quite important: a great
point for Tzadik is that they release music that is not alway radical. I
find the quest for radicalism a kind of fetechism. I like melodies;  i like
music, in fact, and melody seems to be a dominating factor of it ( ok maybe
that was too strong). The biggets reason of masada's greateness is just the
perfect mix of great melodies - superbly arranged and performed - with more
noisy elements. And if we look at circle maker, that the melodical factor
becomes even more important. That music is IMO similiar in spirit to '20s
neoclassicism of ones such as Stravinsky or Hindemith - who made real
innovation by the means of looking at tradition(s) and dealing with them. In
Zorn's case, Filmworks II should be the best example of such an approach.
Noise is, of course, great...

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:13:00 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Your Imaginary Friend)
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)

Twenty-five years ago, when my record collection was much smaller and
manageable, I went the "by genre" route, but as the collection (and my
tastes) grew, I surrendered to the simple allure of "alphabetizing"...
So...

1) Alphabetized by last name or name of group (with exceptions: for
example, Sun Ra under 'S', since I always refer to him by full name; and
prominent leaders of various ensembles and projects - hence, Masada and
Naked City are filed under Zorn, and there's lotsa stuff filed under Will
Oldham...)

2) Chronological after that - although that's gotten tougher with CD
reissues, box sets, &c. - stuck within there usually last...

3) Various artist collections: after 'Z', then alphabetical within that...
unless the material has a coherent theme or unifying aspect ('tribute'
albums, original cast recordings, Yazoo collections of old jugband music,
'song-poem' comps, &c.) - then it's alphabetized by title in 'A-Z'.
Exception: John Giorno's "Dial-a-Poem" series (under 'D')...

4) Collaborations and splits: usually alphabetized by first artist listed
(the Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz - O'Rourke/Drumm/Siewert collab on
Charizma under 'D' [and thanks again, Jon Abbey!], occasionally by favorite
artist (so I can remember it...), even less occasionally by record name
(when I just give up)...

Laswell's recombinant aesthetic really fucks up all this geekazoid
categorizing, but I grin and bear it - his projects are sprinkled all over
the place... and the current taste for remixology beyond dance music
muddles the distinctions even further.

Then there's a rackful of old vinyl records I use(d) for sampling and
dj-ing: educational records, children's songs, hypnosis, stereo
demonstrations, bird songs, obscure spoken word, &c. - stuff I regard more
as "tools", although occasionally one of 'em worms its way into the
"listening" collection - go figger...


>But believe me, his organizational methods have been a
>great source of mirth for all his friends, myself included.  I mentioned it
>for that very reason.

Yep, but for me, laughter with a tinge of quease - reading/watching "High
Fidelity" definitely struck bone a couple of times...

Jon M.

_________________________
Radio Free Norman
96.7 FM
http://freecenter.digiweb.com/music/RadioFreeNorman



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:19:47 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Recent Goodies (long)

Ah, birthday splurges! If only I could convince my wife on the utility
of semi-annual birthdays...

Noel Akchote        Rien            Winter & Winter

A trio session w/ Erik Minkkinen ("computer") & Andrew Sharpley
(sampler, turntable), Akchote clearly steers this venture towards the
electro-improv side of things, while retaining the moody quality of
"Lust Corner". He does a pretty good job, if not up to the rigorous
standards of others who do it regularly, though the final cut, "Pousse",
where his guitar sound is most traditional, is possibly the best track
here. Don't let the back-cover blurb put you off too much: "RIEN is a
journey, a road-movie as well as a soundtrack." Yeah, whatever.

Fred Anderson, etc    2 Days in April        Eremite

Solid double disc document of two blowing sessions from 4/99 w/ Kidd
Jordan, William Parker and Hamid Drake. Anderson and Drake stand out for
me, delivering consistently imaginative, muscular playing. I was less
impressed with Jordan, who seems too content to follow Fred's lead and,
for the umpteenth time in my experience (warning: heresy to follow), I
find nothing special at all with Parker. Perhaps it's the recording
conditions, but he sounds muddy and routine throughout much of the
session. I would've loved to hear a bassist with more punch and
creativity (Kessler, for instance) with this group.

Robert Ashley        Automatic Writing    Lovely

Ashley believes himself afflicted with a mild form of Tourette's,
wherein he spontaneously utters word-like phrases. So, being an
interesting guy, he decided to compose a piece of music around it. The
result, "Automatic Writing" is one of the more disturbing, disquieting
things I've heard recently; one feels as though one is eaves-dropping on
someone mumbling secrets in his sleep. Very eerie and VERY effective. Of
the two other pieces included, "Purposeful Lady Slow Afternoon" is
another harrowing work, with a rape victim clinically recounting her
experience. Highly recommended, but not, as they say, for the squeamish.

Marc Blitzstein        The Airborne Symphony    RCA Victor

The original 1946 recording of one of my favorite oddball, one-off
pieces of music. Kind of an oratorio celebrating the history of flight
and warning of its potentially dire (wartime) consequences, filled with
Americana (how many classical works include the terms "snafu" and
"fubar"?). I still prefer the early 70's recording with Orson Welles as
narrator, but either one is spectacular.

Fennesz/O'Rourke/Rehberg The Magic Sound of Fenno'berg    Mego

Not unfamiliar to most here, I guess. Fine, imaginative work, worth it
just for the final track alone, where John Barry's theme from
"Moonraker" is looped like a throbbing, heavily breathing creature and
subjected to electrostatic bombardment.

Tom Johnson        An Hour for Piano        Lovely

Back in the 70's, people had IDEAS for pieces, damn it! Johnson, in
particular, was great at melding self-referential ideas into his music
and this is a fine example. The listener is asked to read the extensive
liner notes while listening to the piece (here performed by Frederic
Rzewski), which begin "It is important that you try not to allow the
program notes to distract you from concentrating on the music." and go
on to force one to seesaw between the text and the music (which is
blandly pretty), noting the different accents one "hears" depending on
what is being read/heard. Fascinating work. At least to me--I could
readily see many being bored to tears.

Alvin Lucier        Theme            Lovely

Three new-ish works. The first, "Music for Piano with Magnetic Strings"
strikes me as the most successful. The "pianist" (Lois Svard, here),
positions 5 e-bows on the strings of a piano and waits for them to
sound, adjusting the positions as she sees fit to achieve varying
harmonics. One neat aspect is that it takes several minutes for the
sound to reach audible levels, so you listen to nothing for a while
until a hum begins to creep in and flower. Two other pieces, a setting
of a Sam Ashley poem and a work for gamelan ensemble are enjoyable, if
less striking.

(Various)        Pays Masikoro-l'Accordeon    Ocora

Wonderful hinterlands music from Madagascar featuring accordeon,
recorded 1997-99. Dance-oriented (in the village sense), raw and loose.

Mario Pavone/Nu Trio    Remembering Thomas        Knit

I caught this trio (Peter Madsen/piano, Matt Wilson/drums) earlier in
the summer at the Knit and they were superb, performing, as here,
several Thomas Chapin pieces.    This recording doesn't quite measure up to
that performance but it's still quite solid, inventive and enjoyable.
All three players deserve a wider audience.

Aki Takahashi        Hyper-Beatles        EMI

(Finally found it, Steve!) Takahashi, known for her performances of
Feldman, Cage, Rzewski, etc. commissioned (back in the late 80's) a
number of contemporary composers to write arrangements of Beatles tunes.
Some deliver a very abstracted product (Cage, Curran, Inoue), others
fairly straight, even sentimental readings (Raphael Mostel, Barbara
Monk-Feldman). The most successful, for me, are the ones that straddle
this divide, especially Peter Garland's version of "You've Got to Hide
Your Love Away". I understand there's a Vol. 2, only issued in Japan
perhaps, which includes Lucier's take on "Strawberry Fields Forever".
Anyone know if it's available?

Vandermark 5        Burn the Incline        Atavistic

Another strong outing from this band, though I don't think any of their
recorded output has matched their live play. This fits comfortably in
the same zone as previous releases--perhaps fewer KV riff-oriented
works. The big plus here is the bonus disc (not always included--be
careful) where the band covers some avant classics: "Happy House"
(Coleman), "Composition 69L" (Braxton), Conquistador, Part 2" (Taylor),
"Goodbye Tom B." (McPhee), "Saturn" (Sun Ra), "Gazzelloni" (Dolphy) and
"New York Is Full of Lonely People" (Bowie). This second disc is pretty
fine both in the performance achieved and simply in the fact of choosing
to record such classics. More, I say.

Iannis Xenakis        Ensemble Music 2        Mode

I've heard complaints about the ST-X performances and of the pieces
included here, I only have another version of "Akrata" (on the old
Nonesuch release) which does, indeed, strike me as stronger, more
visceral. The other works, "Echange", "Okho", "Xas" and "A la Memoire de
Witold Lutoslawski" are new to me however and appear to work just fine.
Any preferences on these out there? "Okho", for three djembes (low-tuned
African drums) and bass drum is especially appealing.

They've been previously mentioned, but two recent re-releases are
required listening for anybody and everybody: Braxton's "For Alto" and
the AEC's "Les Stances a Sophie". Two extraordinarily great albums.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:32:41 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Your Imaginary Friend)
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)

PS: Forgot to mention - the alphabetizing method also provides a cheap
thrill when scanning the racks; I imagine collaborations by adjoining
artists: Autechre and Albert Ayler, Yoko Ono and Roy Orbison, Yo La Tengo
and LaMonte Young... mmm...

Oh, and "classical": alphabetical by composer, then chronological by
composition, then in the case of multiple recordings of favorite pieces, by
preferred performance (too much Mahler!).

Jon M.

_________________________
Radio Free Norman
96.7 FM
http://freecenter.digiweb.com/music/RadioFreeNorman



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:08:48 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Benjamin Pequet)
Subject: Fwd: [rumori] consume ground zero!; was: Re: korean music - kim suk chul?

These liner notes by Otomo were sent to the rumori mailing-list last night.
He mentions the virtuoso Kim Suk Chul.

>X-Sender: [e-mail]
>Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:02:15 -0700
>To: [e-mail]
>From: Jon Leidecker <[e-mail]>
>Subject: [rumori] consume ground zero!
>Sender: [e-mail]
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>
>forgive the cross-post if you're also on plunderphonic, but these liner
>notes are just inspiring.  Many of you have probably already read them but
>as I'm finally listening to the 'consume' trilogy in it's entirety this
>week I'm all on fire with the text at the moment and wanted to share.
>
>
>Consume Ground Zero!
>
>by Yoshihide Otomo
>
>It's easy and maybe even cool to say "to hell with copyright." But of
>course, things aren't really that simple. What exactly is the difference
>between someone using your
>performance on their own CD without your permission and making a load of
>money, and GROUND ZERO sampling a revolution-era Pekinese opera to make a CD
>that DOESN'T make money? It burns me that a Japanese television network
>rotting in money can use my music without my knowing it, and I still don't
>get a cent out of
>it. But as long as a TV network is paying JASRAC (the one and only
>copyright organization in Japan) I'm told it's not illegal. So am I allowed
>to sample that TV channel
>without paying a cent, and make a CD from it? And then, what happens when
>that CD is sampled yet again by Stock, Hausen and Walkman?
>
>The two main reasons for the existence of copyright are this. When a work
>is created by someone, there is ownership in that work. And, if such
>ownership exists, there
>is the question of how to justifiably turn that into money. My problem is
>about the fact that not all forms of creativity can be accredited to a
>single entity. And if I'm
>correct, what about copyright?
>
>In the general flow of things, which do not consist of mere solitary
>products bobbing along but of things sampled and re-sampled, how can
>anybody say for sure who
>created what? The first question needs to be directed to the idea that an
>artistic work is born from a single entity's creativity. And so forth and
>so on. So rather than to go
>on talking about it, the idea is to go ahead and do it.
>
>So it comes to this. GROUND ZERO samples the musical performance of a
>Korean national treasure, Kim Suk Chul. Any artistic purist should fly into
>a rage right
>there. His superhuman playing is without question a product of his own
>creativity, but it could also be that he is in fact a vessel for the voices
>of gods or ancestors. So
>GROUND ZERO takes and samples this brilliant music sacred enough to blow
>away any puny ideas about copyright. Then we will have this remixed by a
>number of
>unique sampling artists and place the two versions on a "chopping board" of
>consumption and sampling. Call it public sampling if you will. It's up to
>you how you cook
>with it. Make it techno or enka or anything you like. What we want to see is
>not style or perfection but something beyond that (that is, if there is
>such a thing). The
>jumble of criticisms and questions that may emerge should outbalance
>today's definition of copyright together with its messy problems and
>questions of creativity. Go
>ahead and butcher this with your own hands. We can talk later.
>
>
>Written in November 1996
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------
>Rumori, the Detritus.net Discussion List
>to unsubscribe, send mail to [e-mail]
>with "unsubscribe rumori" in the message body.
>----------------------------------------------------
>Rumori list archives & other information are at
>http://detritus.net/contact/rumori
>----------------------------------------------------


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:03:48 -0400
From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Ong" <[e-mail]>

> RIT 14  AMBARCHI/FENNESZ/PIMMON/REHBERG/ROWE        Afternoon Tea

Did this already come out?  Or was that a different record?  I thought I saw
something that those five did together.

Oh, and to answer for Jon about Vlad Delay on his label, I *think* Erstwhile
does solely improv, ruling Delay out.  Though maybe that's just what
Erstwhile's specialized in so far.

- -Jesse


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #28
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