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Zorn List Digest       Thursday, August 24 2000       Volume 03 : Number 023



In this issue:
-
       Re: Tzadik
       Re: Tzadik
       Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
       Re: DSP/ electronic references
       Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
       Re: Sponsoring Hat Hut
       ZYGOSIS, durian, charhizma, sinewavers
       Re: thanks & Soft Machine
       Re: DSP/ electronic references
       morton feldman's GUSTON: versions
       Re: Sine waves
       Re: DSP/ electronic references
       Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions
       Re: DSP/ electronic references

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:53:18 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tzadik

> According to a Zorn interview from July,

What interview?  Did I miss something on the newstands?

Jeff

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:01:02 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tzadik

In a message dated 8/24/00 1:54:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< > According to a Zorn interview from July,

 What interview?  Did I miss something on the newstands?

 Jeff
  >>


It was aired on the BBC.

Tom

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:13:13 -0400
From: "Dann-Brown" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)

> I'm not sure who he pays to do his accounting or how much the label spends
on
> promotion.  I've never seen a Tzadik ad in any magazine.  Their web page
is
> the only marketing I've seen.  The costs to maintain that are pretty
minimal,
> I would assume.

When I order from the Tzadik website, DtMG always includes a Tzadik pamphlet
that lists every album released by the label as well as upcoming releases.
It's the only promotional thingy (a technical term) I've ever seen from
them.

But then again, do they need glossy half-page color ads?  We zornthologists
do a good enough job pushing releases thru word-of-mouth.

don't we?

- -------
Dann-Brown

np: Carcass - "Necroticism"
- -------



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:09:37 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references

hey,
i can reccomend Audiomulch for anyone looking to work with computers in
windows. Great Real Time Processing, for sound editing I reccomend CoolEdit,
but most sound editing software programs are the same, unless somebody knows
about somethin I don't.

from,
matt
<A HREF="http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins">MP3.com - matt wellins</A>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:23:51 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)

i live down near orlando florida and i am one of those fortunate souls that
happens to have a local cd store that carries quite a bit of zorn/tzadik (and
other related) material.  the suprising thing is that it seems to sell.  i am
constantly seeing new material and on quite a few occasions i have muttered
"F***, they just had it here yesterday!"  it is nice to see artists such as
marc ribot at one of those nifty listening posts, and suprisingly enough a
good portion of those that work there are knowledgable of the music.  i also
enjoy the fact that i can go purchase a cd any particular day and HAVE IT IN
MY HAND without having to wait for it to be shipped to me.  There are times
when i question whether or not i should be buying from the record store or
from tzadik directly, but wouldn't the world be a better place if more stores
carried the music we listen to?  anyway, i rambled quite a bit, but the point
was that zorn and tzadik sell....not as much as mtv supported bands, but they
still sell.

dave

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:01:54 +0200
From: "Francesco Martinelli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sponsoring Hat Hut

> I had a short email correspondence with someone who works closely
> with Anthony Braxton about Braxton House and other issues and here's
> a snippet: "I wouldn't ellaborate here about Braxton's experiences,
> but I know that Hat Art are onme of the biggest thiefs in this
> business."
>

only thing I can say is
let's Braxton elaborate by himself when/if he wants about ALL his
experiences in the business.
_________________
Francesco Martinelli
Lungarno Mediceo 10
56127 PISA ITALY
email: [e-mail]
webpage: http://space.tin.it/musica/upsma/
fax [phone]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:16:54 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: ZYGOSIS, durian, charhizma, sinewavers


Kristopher,

>2. Speaking of which, has anyone heard Erik M's ZYGOSIS and care to
>comment?  His work (I'm guessing) on POIRE Z (For4Ears) is pretty
>interesting to me.

I like ZYGOSIS quite a bit.  I love track 8.  There are also some great
tracks toward the end.  Many of the tracks are very short noises (like 3-4
seconds...some may be 20).  I just find it incredibly entertaining.  There
are a couple of hilarious moments toward the beginning but by the end
there's a track that you don't want to play loud late at night in the dark.
Very different from his contributions to POIRE Z (obviously) but I also
recommend this record even though its rather hard to make heads or tails of
who's who sound wise.

3. Could anyone drop some recommendations for any of the Durian and/or
Charhizma catalogs?

I just recieved Stangl's "Recital" from anomalous yesterday.  I listened to
it last night but I think I made the mistake of breaking up my listening.  I
think soon I'll listen to it in a single sitting.  The booming piano at the
end of track three got me pretty excited after the first ten minutes of what
I'm guessing is an e-bow + detuning? (any help Jon?/anyone?).

Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz + "guitarists" is great.  (I think anomalous
may have just recieved copies of this as well).

I have "printer" (Dafeldecker/Fusseneger/Kovacic) but need to listen to it
more.  Tracks 2-4 are remixes by the various performers of the first track
which was recorded live.

ISO's self titled disc is also highly recommended although this is a
different ball of wax in many ways.  BTW- If anyone is thinking of looking
at Ikeda's sine wave material I would recommend +/- on Touch.  O degrees C
is also good but in a different way.  My favorite Ikeda moment comes in the
last three tracks of this disc.

hope this helps,
Matt Wirzbicki


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:42:20 +0000
From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: thanks & Soft Machine

on 8/25/00 2:31 AM, s~Z at [e-mail] wrote:

> I'm a millionaire, and I buy your CDs.

I need a new turntable. When I try to clean a disc on mine, the slightest
pressure stops the table dead. Is this not inexcusable for a supposed
discographer??!??  Would you like my shipping address?

Thanks,
RL

- --
Marilyn CRISPELL, Susie IBARRA, William PARKER, Sam RIVERS, Matthew SHIPP,
David S. WARE, and Reggie WORKMAN Discographies-- Samuel Beckett Eulogy
- --Baseball & the 10,000 Things --Time Stops --LOVETORN --HARD BOIL --etc.,
at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

UPDATE *June 25*, 2000:
vids, a few CDs, baseball books, a few Cadence back issues, a few more
CDs...
***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html

WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? :  http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:51:22 -0500
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references

"Jim McLoughlin" <[e-mail]> wrote:

When people use laptops for real time digital signal processing, are the
majority using midi interfaces, or other digital/analog connections?  What
kind of software are people using to process signals and/or generate sounds?
There are probably many availabe, just curious if there is a consensus fav
(for MAC and PC).

Any info or links appreciated...


As Jon mentioned, the main software packages used by folks doing live
real time DSP, as well as interactive computer programs, etc are MAX,
LiSa,and Supercollider.  For better or for worse, there's little like
these programs for PCs).

There is pretty much true parity between the platforms on the more
standard types of sequencers, digital recorders and much other
MIDI-specific software (& as usual there are pluses and minuses for
specific software on the different platforms). & for at least some
composers & performers, this is enough, as they really only use their
computers as a playback system. But that's not what programs like MAX
do.

None of the people who write MAX, LiSa, etc. want to make Windows
versions, apparently because of extreme differences in the OS
architecture. There are a number of real-time algorithmic/modular
synth and signal processing programs for PCs, but I don't know of
many people who are using them to do much that sounds particularly
progressive, to me at least. (I don't think I've heard anyone using
Csound, which is a very cool program, live; though I could certainly
be wrong on that - & I'd like to hear the work.)

Some links:

for MAX try

<http://www.cycling74.com/index.html>

and

<http://node.net/unmax/>

For LiSa & other goodies from STEIM:

http://www.steim.nl/products.html

For Supercollider:

<http://www.audiosynth.com/>


Tom Erbe (SoundHack and other Signal processors)

<http://shoko.calarts.edu/~tre/>

I can provide links for composers who've been using these programs
long since the recent outbreak of laptop performers, but it'll take
some time to pull it together. If I don't hear back from the
veterinarian soon, I may send it out tonight.

Bests,

Herb
- --
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:11:20 CDT
From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions

I've been looking at the two available recordings of Morton Feldman's epic
FOR PHILLIP GUSTON, one on the Bridge label, featuring the California E.A.R.
Unit (who are these guys?), the other the premier recording (methinks) on
HatArt with Eberhard ____ and a couple other musicians.  Has anyone had the
time to check both out?  Is either noticeably superior?  Isn't there
expanded media on the Bridge edition?

Thanks, as always, in advance,

- -----s, millionaire, generous with advances
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:25:36 -0400
From: "H." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sine waves

give a listen to ryoji ikeda...

http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1358953741/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/po
psearch.html

out
  H


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:44:17 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references

In addition to the great stuff Herb mentioned, I should add that I
personally use MOTU's Digital Performer
(http://www.motu.com/english/software/dp/body.html) for real-time digital
effects processing, and it works wonderfully! DP has an 'audio monitor'
feature which will allow me to not only monitor the audio input coming
through on a record-enabled channel, but also lets me apply effects to
that channel in real-time.

On Thu, Aug 24, 2000, Herb Levy <[e-mail]> wrote:

>"Jim McLoughlin" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>When people use laptops for real time digital signal processing, are the
>majority using midi interfaces, or other digital/analog connections?  What
>kind of software are people using to process signals and/or generate sounds?
>There are probably many availabe, just curious if there is a consensus fav
>(for MAC and PC).
>
>Any info or links appreciated...
>
>
>As Jon mentioned, the main software packages used by folks doing live
>real time DSP, as well as interactive computer programs, etc are MAX,
>LiSa,and Supercollider.  For better or for worse, there's little like
>these programs for PCs).
>
>There is pretty much true parity between the platforms on the more
>standard types of sequencers, digital recorders and much other
>MIDI-specific software (& as usual there are pluses and minuses for
>specific software on the different platforms). & for at least some
>composers & performers, this is enough, as they really only use their
>computers as a playback system. But that's not what programs like MAX
>do.
>
>None of the people who write MAX, LiSa, etc. want to make Windows
>versions, apparently because of extreme differences in the OS
>architecture. There are a number of real-time algorithmic/modular
>synth and signal processing programs for PCs, but I don't know of
>many people who are using them to do much that sounds particularly
>progressive, to me at least. (I don't think I've heard anyone using
>Csound, which is a very cool program, live; though I could certainly
>be wrong on that - & I'd like to hear the work.)
>
>Some links:
>
>for MAX try
>
><http://www.cycling74.com/index.html>
>
>and
>
><http://node.net/unmax/>
>
>For LiSa & other goodies from STEIM:
>
>http://www.steim.nl/products.html
>
>For Supercollider:
>
><http://www.audiosynth.com/>
>
>
>Tom Erbe (SoundHack and other Signal processors)
>
><http://shoko.calarts.edu/~tre/>
>
>I can provide links for composers who've been using these programs
>long since the recent outbreak of laptop performers, but it'll take
>some time to pull it together. If I don't hear back from the
>veterinarian soon, I may send it out tonight.
>
>Bests,
>
>Herb
>--
>Herb Levy
>P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
>817  377-2983
>[e-mail]
>
>-
>
>



| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |
| | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | http://www.mp3.com/craque | |
| | http://www.metatronpress.com  | | http://www.mp3.com/graycode | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:59:29 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions

Kristopher S. Handley wrote:
>
> I've been looking at the two available recordings of Morton Feldman's epic
> FOR PHILLIP GUSTON, one on the Bridge label, featuring the California E.A.R.
> Unit (who are these guys?), the other the premier recording (methinks) on
> HatArt with Eberhard ____ and a couple other musicians.  Has anyone had the
> time to check both out?  Is either noticeably superior?  Isn't there
> expanded media on the Bridge edition?

I've only got the Bridge version which indeed comes with an enhanced CD
which is basically past of a Feldman lecture about his music,
acompanied, if I'm remembering correctly, some animated graphics. The
EAR unit (for this recording) is Dorothy Stone/flute, Arthur
Jarvinen/percussion and Gloria Cheng-Cochran/piano & celeste. imo, a
spectacular piece of music, though I've heard that each version has its
champions.

Brian Olewnick

NP: AEC--Les Stances a Sophie. Finally available on disc! I can die
happy.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:14:00 -0400
From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references

As a music geek/current music major/somewhat knowledgeable person about
technical stuff, I've been meaning to chime on this thread, but now is the
first chance I've had.  I hope I can be of some use.

Sine waves are basically the simplest waveforms of sound in that they have
only  frequency (pitch) and amplitude (volume) but no harmonic content.
It's hard to explain this without getting too involved, but basically, all
sounds, even pitched ones, contain energy at many frequencies.  The lowest
(pitched) and loudest is the fundamental, the "note" you hear.  But you also
hear other tones in harmonic relation to the fundamental at higher
frequencies.  These are called "partials" or "harmonics," and what we hear
as harmony is based on the simple frequency ratios between these partials.
Which harmonics are heard and at what amplitude determines timbre, as does
attack and decay (how a sound reaches max volume and then falls off).
"Noise" is sound in which the partials are not in simple harmonic relation.
A graph of those kinds of sounds would look like a really squiggly line
going up and down.  Sine waves, when graphed, look like a simple little up
and down wave, and they have no partials.  That is, there is only sound at
one frequency.  In theory, you can combine sine waves to make all other
sounds (this is known as "additive synthesis"), but the realities of nature
make this unconvincing (as you know if you've heard a digital synth
imitating any acoustic instrument).  I'd imagine there's plenty of articles
on the web if you look up "acoustics" or "sine waves."

As for Supercollider, I'm probably taking a course in just that program this
semester.  So needless to say, it's quite involved.  My experience with it
so far is fairly limited, but it's basically a programming language designed
for audio.  That is, you can set up all kinds of operators for synthesis and
processing, and you can adjust a million parameters.  It's good for
real-time performance because you can write programs that essentially
function as instruments, assigning the mouse axes to certain functions and
the keys to triggers.  So you could, say, very simply, make a program where
moving the mouse to the right raises the pitch of a sine wave, and moving
the mouse up makes it louder.  If you investigate the Supercollider more,
you can of course make much more complicated stuff.  Someone else gave the
URL, which is www.audiosynth.com .  It's Mac only, and I think there's a
demo/trial version you can download.  You may be able to see an explanation
of some of the stuff it does too, ut I'm not sure.

I believe CSound is a synthesis program, but I'm not sure.  I've heard
MAX/MSP mentioned a lot by the new laptop people (Mego, etc.), but I have no
experience with it.  I'm not sure if it's used for synthesis, but I'm pretty
sure it has some tweakable sequencing functions.  A composer who came to my
school used it to control some motors, and he had a GUI that he could use to
bring up the speed of each motor, or multiple ones in tandem.

Aesthetically speaking, I think Ryoji Ikeda does some great stuff with sine
waves and other simple stuff, like white noise and rhythmic pulses.  +/- is
basically considered a near-masterpiece by a lot of people.  Someone asked
what you can do with sine waves, and this is a good example.  The record
sounds different from different places in the room, because the sine waves
combine in different ways depending on which speaker you're closer too.  So
just sine waves and panning can produce really cool effects.  You can move
one place and get extreme volume and have near silence somewhere else.
Actually, I was once playing a CD of some sine wave stuff I did, and I
thought it was quite soft.  But the girl next door complained about the loud
bass.  I realized that where I was, the low tones were canceling each other
out, but they were amplified where she was.

Anyway, what you can "do" with sine waves, aside from where you put them
spatially, is really just set the pitch.  And of course when you start and
stop each one, no small thing in good improv.

I can't really think of too many improvisers specifically using sine waves
that were mentioned.  Sachiko M uses a sine wave sampler, as mentioned.  And
various lap-toppers throw them in too.  There's also a bunch of rock bands
with sine-wave oscillators in their setups.  Simeon's setup in the Silver
Apples was basically a lot of sine-wave oscillators working together, and I
know Pelt uses one.  There's plenty of academic/"serious" people using them
too.  Lamonte Young's uses them in all the pieces where he sings with sine
waves, causing beating effects (rhythmic cancellation of the sound by out-of
phase sine waves).  And Alvin Lucier uses them in various pieces that
involve beating as well, although I can't think of which ones would be well
known and/or on record.

Yeah, anyway.  Please excuse the rambling.  I didn't get enough sleep last
night.  Any more technical/acoustic questions, try me, and I'll see if I can
fake an answer.

- -Jesse


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " <[e-mail]>
To: "'Jim McLoughlin '" <[e-mail]>
Cc: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 6:06 PM
Subject: RE: DSP/ electronic references


> >After reading some of the articles on the erstwhile site, I am
> >interested in figuring out a little more detail about the
> >equipment/resources used in this kind of music.
>
> I've heard rumor that a program called Supercollider is used very
frequently
> in real time computer music.  But I also know next to nothing about the
> technical end of things.
>
> Matt Wirzbicki
>
> -
>
>


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #23
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