home
***
CD-ROM
|
disk
|
FTP
|
other
***
search
/
ftp.xmission.com
/
2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar
/
ftp.xmission.com
/
pub
/
lists
/
zorn-list
/
archive
/
v03.n021
< prev
next >
Wrap
Internet Message Format
|
2000-08-23
|
21KB
From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #21
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, August 24 2000 Volume 03 : Number 021
In this issue:
-
electro-improv rec's request: akchote, durian, charhizma
Re: Soft macine/muffins
spillane reissue
Re: spillane reissue
correction:Big Gundown
Re: Chasin the Trane
winter-winter Site
Re: Chasin the Trane
Re: winter-winter Site
coltrane/sines of the times
Re: coltrane/sines of the times
Lounge Lizards
Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
RE: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
thanks & Soft Machine
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 03:24:01 CDT
From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <thesubtlebody@hotmail.com>
Subject: electro-improv rec's request: akchote, durian, charhizma
A few requests for some info/opinons:
1. The new Noel Akchote album RIEN (Winter & Winter), with Erik
Minkkinen on computer & Andrew Sharpley on turntables. Is this Erik
Minkkinen the same guy as "Erik M"?
2. Speaking of which, has anyone heard Erik M's ZYGOSIS and care to comment?
I read some mildly complimentary comments on the State51/Motion site, I
think. His work (I'm guessing) on POIRE Z (For4Ears) is pretty interesting
to me.
3. Could anyone drop some recommendations for any of the Durian and/or
Charhizma catalogs? I just disco(graphy)'d my way to their websites. The
names of several of the musicians seem familiar, but much of it looks
interesting. The sites are:
http://www.charhizma.com
http://www.durian.at
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:56:44 +0100
From: "Peter Marsh" <marshp@richmond.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Soft macine/muffins
Peter wrote;
> If you like the free jazzier stuff, you may also like a band called the
> Muffins, doing similar stuff. I believe they influenced SM quite a bit, but
> I could be mistaken.
methinks 'twas probably the other way round. the muffins were an american
group (produced on occasion by fred frith) who i don't think emerged till
around '79 or so. nice stuff though.
cheers
Peter
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 01:52:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gatzen <aargh881@yahoo.com>
Subject: spillane reissue
it is so wicked cool that Zorn put the Ballad of Hank
Mccain on it, and with Mike Patton doing the
vocals...hearing it sent chills down my spine..the
booklet is nice too...all you Zornists should get this
CD even if you own the original.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:54:41 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: spillane reissue
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C00DFC.C298FE20
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<< it is so wicked cool that Zorn put the Ballad of Hank
Mccain on it, and with Mike Patton doing the
vocals...hearing it sent chills down my spine..the
booklet is nice too...all you Zornists should get this
CD even if you own the original. >>
sure, but it's, uh, the Big Gundown, right?
- ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C00DFC.C298FE20
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><< it is so wicked cool that Zorn put the Ballad of =
Hank<BR>Mccain on=20
it, and with Mike Patton doing the<BR>vocals...hearing it sent chills =
down my=20
spine..the<BR>booklet is nice too...all you Zornists should get =
this<BR>CD even=20
if you own the original. >></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>sure, but it's, uh, the Big Gundown, right?</DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C00DFC.C298FE20--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 02:01:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gatzen <aargh881@yahoo.com>
Subject: correction:Big Gundown
thats what I get trying to post at 5 AM..sorry folks
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:04:10 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Steve Berman <steve@IMS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE>
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> writes:
Steve> JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
>> the Coltrane record I've probably played the most over the last
>> few years is one I don't think's been mentioned yet, Coltrane's
>> Sound (Atlantic). great tunes and playing by the classic
>> quartet, except Steve Davis is subbing for Jimmy Garrison, and
>> it contains the oft-covered, gorgeous Equinox.
Steve> Seconded... a gorgeous, gorgeous record, although far more
Steve> "inside" than most of what's being mentioned in this
Steve> thread. This is pretty staight stuff from the nascent
Steve> "classic" quartet, prior to Garrison's arrival. I think
Steve> it's the first time Trane used multiphonics on record, as
Steve> well.
He used them earlier on "Harmonique" (on _Coltrane Jazz_), which was
recorded about ten months earlier than the _Coltrane's Sound_ sessions.
- --Steve Berman
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 05:08:32 -0400
From: "Ljova" <L@Ljova.com>
Subject: winter-winter Site
Hi.
I was previously informed that the website for the 'Winter & Winter' label
was:
http://www.winter-winter.njetwork.de/
But however my browser cannot find it anymore. *sniff*
Did they relocate? Or have I mistyped?
Thanks,
Ljova
P.S. A brief plug to tell you that my website, Ljova.com, is updated and
there's some interesting improv-related stuff there. Cheers.
- --------
Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin
L@Ljova.com
http://Ljova.com
"Do not fear mistakes - there are none."
-Miles Davis
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:12:53 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Steve Berman <steve@IMS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE>
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
>>>>> "Patrice" == Patrice L Roussel <proussel@ichips.intel.com> writes:
Patrice> A record that was not mentioned and that I think makes
Patrice> the transition from "classic" Coltrane to "modern"
Patrice> Coltrane, is the amazing OLE. This is maybe the first
Patrice> Coltrane record where you detect that he is more than a
Patrice> fantastic and inspired player, but that he is also on
Patrice> something else. Could it be one of his first "modal"
Patrice> record (question for the specialist)?
If by modal you mean a reduction of chord changes as a basis for
improvising, I think his first as a leader is usually considered to be
_My Favorite Things_, recorded about half a year earlier than _Ole_
(and of course he recorded "modal" music still earlier with Miles).
- --Steve Berman
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:16:27 +0200
From: "dekater" <dekater@worldonline.nl>
Subject: Re: winter-winter Site
- -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Ljova <L@Ljova.com>
Aan: Zorn-List <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
Datum: donderdag 24 augustus 2000 11:10
Onderwerp: winter-winter Site
>Hi.
>
>I was previously informed that the website for the 'Winter & Winter' label
>was:
>http://www.winter-winter.njetwork.de/
>
>But however my browser cannot find it anymore. *sniff*
>
>Did they relocate? Or have I mistyped?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ljova
>
I experienced the same. One time it works, next time it doesn't.
What's going on?
Jan Luyben
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:12:00 +0100
From: "Peter Marsh" <marshp@richmond.ac.uk>
Subject: coltrane/sines of the times
Martin wrote
> 1. Trane: Live in Seattle, Impulse. With Pharoah. Terrifying two-LP
> set. Have no idea if it's on CD, but props are due. My impression is
> that it's somewhat rare.
it is on an impulse cd (japanese only, i think) and it is a fantastic,
beautiful and terrifying document. it's still the one that pisses people off
in my experience...even more so than 'ascension' or the more unfettered
episodes on 'meditations'. i would back up the votes for 'stellar regions'
and would add 'expression' too - coltrane's last offical recording and
notable for the extended flute/piccolo duet with pharoah. lovely, but your
cat might not agree.
Bill wrote:
> << So is anyone infuriating listeners today in
> the spirit in which Coltrane and Coleman did in the sixties (by this
> measure, people like Vandermark are excluded), or is such a thing even
> possible in these days where among cliques like ours, the "new thing" is
> always expected? If so, then where are these points of "anguish?" >>
and Jon wrote
>I think it's safe to
>say that the new wave of electronics improvisers, especially the ones working
>with sine waves, have confused and infuriated more than a few long-time avant
>improv fans.
i'm sure jon wasn't trying to draw a direct comparison with the outrage
coltrane provoked (and still is provoking by all accounts), but any
controversy that the sinewavers have produced is pretty small beer really.
the likes of 'ascension' must have upset many who'd followed jc through his
work with miles etc and probably as far as 'a love supreme'. i imagine a lot
of people felt betrayed. maybe if radiohead did a free improv record we
might see a similar reaction today. as bill suggests, there is so much
compartmentalisation of genres these days that the only possible way to
upset people is in the mainstream - hook 'em with a tune, then lock the
doors (to paraphrase steve lake).
to digress slightly, chris cutler told me that one of the few downsides of
the rise of small indie labels that specialise in avant garde stuff is that
it relieves the majors of any responsibility of catering to the likes of us.
this may seem a ridiculous suggestion on the face of it but take a look back
pre-punk and what do you find ? on UA - can, amon duul II. on virgin -
faust, tony conrad, fred frith, henry cow, robert wyatt. on cbs - terry
riley, miles' 70's stuff, hancock's sextant, ray russell. on vertigo - ian
carr's nucleus. on rca - keith tippett. just a thought.
cheers
peter
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:22:49 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: coltrane/sines of the times
>From: "Peter Marsh" <marshp@richmond.ac.uk>
>to digress slightly, chris cutler told me that one of the few downsides of
>the rise of small indie labels that specialise in avant garde stuff is that
>it relieves the majors of any responsibility of catering to the likes of
>us.
>this may seem a ridiculous suggestion on the face of it but take a look
>back
>pre-punk and what do you find ? on UA - can, amon duul II. on virgin -
>faust, tony conrad, fred frith, henry cow, robert wyatt. on cbs - terry
>riley, miles' 70's stuff, hancock's sextant, ray russell. on vertigo - ian
>carr's nucleus. on rca - keith tippett. just a thought.
In these days of the "downsizing" of the avant-garde, shoveling the
responsibility to the indies was inevitable. The majors pretty much lost
interest in this music in the nineties, or rather, everything got reduced to
"use-value" and the balance sheets, whereas in the seventies there was
always the potential for a groundbreaking artist coming along in the rock
fringe to keep the majors on their toes and the executives worried about
keeping their jobs. That and the fact that their weren't as many indies
then, and the number of artists producing was comparatively smaller. I
agree with your other point that sine waves are small change when compared
to the controversies surrounding Coltrane and Coleman.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:25:48 GMT
From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com>
Subject: Lounge Lizards
Hey,
I stopped listening to Lounge Lizards long time ago, but suddenly started
wondering what they are up to... Any good albums since, say, 1990?
Also, there was some talk few weeks ago here, about an open letter from John
Lurie to The Knitting Factory (???) or something like that. I'd be
interested in reading it. Could anybody send it to me or guide towards it
with an adress, perhaps... Thanks.
ARTUHR_G
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:34:10 GMT
From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com>
Subject: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Hello again,
All this talk about sponsorship made me wonder about Tzadik. Anybody know
how that works finacially? I hope they don't run out of money anytime in the
near future. But they seem to be doing fine, considering they are still
releasing about a million albums every year.
I remember hearing long time ago, when Tzadik was just starting up, that
everybody (better make that "everybody") got 5000 US dollar to make their
CD, which should be enough for one day in the studio. Makes sense, since
most of my Tzadik CDs actually are recorded in just one day. I wonder if
that still holds... Also, are they still not doing any kind of advertising,
promotion CDs and so?
How much is Zorn himself actually invovled? It seems clear that he is
choosing all the artists, since they only release Zorn and closest friends,
but I guess he is not calculating all the money... Is he making lots of
profit from all this? Considering all the music he is composing and playing
himself, I can't believe he is very deep in the bussiness himself...
Anybody has any info about all this?
Just curious...
ARTHUR_G
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:05:44 +0200
From: Verstraeten Stefan <stefan.verstraeten@wkb.be>
Subject: RE: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Gadney [mailto:a_gadney@hotmail.com]
Subject: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Hello again,
How much is Zorn himself actually invovled? It seems clear that he is
choosing all the artists, since they only release Zorn and closest friends,
but I guess he is not calculating all the money... Is he making lots of
profit from all this? Considering all the music he is composing and playing
himself, I can't believe he is very deep in the bussiness himself...
Anybody has any info about all this?
(stefan) Correct me if I am wrong, but someone on this list talked about
this with Zorn, and the answer was like this:
- -tzadik pays for the recording (like you mentioned)
- -the artist gets half of the profit of the sales and tzadik gets the other
50% (And that 50% is divided between zorn, kazunori sagayima or something
like that and onother person who works for the tzadik label).
Best wishes,
Stefan Verstraeten
NP Masonna: Frequency LSD (When I hear this guy "sing", Mike Patton sounds
like a pussy)... god, I like japanese noise music.....
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:08:55 EDT
From: Samerivertwice@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
According to a Zorn interview from July, Tzadik still operates on a $5000 per
CD budget. Zorn executive produces and chooses every CD released through the
label. After the initial $5000 is recouped from sales, the profits are split
50/50 between the label and the artists. My guess is Zorn uses his 50% of
each album's profits to run the label and fund other projects. "Bar Kohkba"
is the most successful disc Tzadik has released to date, with over 30,000
units sold. Since Zorn is the composer, he sees 100% of the profits from
that album, right? And since it's a double CD that retails for around $20,
my guess is he clears about $10 for each copy of "Bar Kohkba." That
translates into about $300,000.
Now, that doesn't mean Zorn is getting rich from Tzadik. He's obviously
taken a HUGE chunk of that money and sunk it into releasing discs by artists
who will never sell even 1000 units. He's probably taking a loss on a bunch
of Tzadik artists, but he obviously feels it's important to release them.
That to me makes Tzadik the coolest independent record company on the planet.
(Didn't somebody say that about Hat recently?)
I'm not sure who he pays to do his accounting or how much the label spends on
promotion. I've never seen a Tzadik ad in any magazine. Their web page is
the only marketing I've seen. The costs to maintain that are pretty minimal,
I would assume.
Back to work,
Tom
NP: Will the Circle Be Unbroken, Volume Two
In a message dated 8/24/00 8:34:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
a_gadney@hotmail.com writes:
<< Hello again,
All this talk about sponsorship made me wonder about Tzadik. Anybody know
how that works finacially? I hope they don't run out of money anytime in the
near future. But they seem to be doing fine, considering they are still
releasing about a million albums every year.
I remember hearing long time ago, when Tzadik was just starting up, that
everybody (better make that "everybody") got 5000 US dollar to make their
CD, which should be enough for one day in the studio. Makes sense, since
most of my Tzadik CDs actually are recorded in just one day. I wonder if
that still holds... Also, are they still not doing any kind of advertising,
promotion CDs and so?
How much is Zorn himself actually invovled? It seems clear that he is
choosing all the artists, since they only release Zorn and closest friends,
but I guess he is not calculating all the money... Is he making lots of
profit from all this? Considering all the music he is composing and playing
himself, I can't believe he is very deep in the bussiness himself...
Anybody has any info about all this?
Just curious...
ARTHUR_G >>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:22:01 EDT
From: CuneiWay@aol.com
Subject: thanks & Soft Machine
All,
thanks for the nice words about Cuneiform's releases. It's very nice to know
that our very hard work is appreciated - esp. artists like T. Plague &
Kerman/5uu's, which I would not necessarily think would be of interest to the
folks who read this list.
>I am coming from a prog background on this, and not a free-jazz background.
>If you like the free jazzier stuff, you may also like a band called the
>Muffins, doing similar stuff. I believe they influenced SM quite a bit,
>but
>I could be mistaken.
The Muffins were a Soft Machine *influenced* band. The Softs were definitely
first - their best period, imo, stretches from about 1968-72, while the
Muffins were active from about 1974-81.
And, btw, since it came up, we *always* pay our artists. Every six months
they receive a royalty statement & a check that matches the statement. All
without any help from millionaires...
Steve/
Cuneiform
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #21
******************************
To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
"majordomo@lists.xmission.com"
with
"unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
in the body of the message.
For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
"help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
in the commands above with "zorn-list".
Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date.
Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com