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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, August 8 2000        Volume 03 : Number 007



In this issue:
-
       satchmo
       Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong?
       Gustafsson
       Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong?
       Hip Hop Cobra
       Re: Hip Hop Cobra
       masada influences
       Re: Hip Hop Cobra
       RE: Gustafsson
       Further into the SY issue.
       [Not Our] John The Generator
       Re: [Not Our] John The Generator
       New Band of Joey Baron
       Miles Reissues
       RE: Filmoworks II
       Cynical Hysterie Hour
       David Moss - Full House & Dense Band.
       bad mf, aka bad oedipus, aka Sean Lennon
       Buying CDs (who it benefits)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:52:42 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: satchmo

Satchmo's Hot 5s and Hot 7s, from the 1920s, are widely acknowledged as
his most important and innovative work. Emotionally packed as well. All
that I've heard have been great, although I'm partial to his 1928
recordings with Earl Hines (and the Hots). Particular cuts to keep your
eye open for include Struttin With Some Barbeque and Weather Vane....
>From: Maurice Rickard <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Favorite Louis Armstrong?

>What with the centennial either upon us or coming up, I'm looking for
>a good collection of high points from Louis Armstrong's ouvre.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 15:01:30 -0400
From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong?

 I'm looking for
>a good collection of high points from Louis Armstrong's ouvre.

Admittedly biased position:

Go for the oldest stuff.  The work with King Oliver and Earl Hines from
24-32 or so is almost universally excellent.

West End Blues from 27 or 28 is widely regarded as one of the most
amazingly emotional jazz songs ever.  Period.  It's on columbia's
chronological series number 4.  Number 3 of the Hot Fives and Sevens is
also excellent and features amazing guitarist Lonnie Johnson.

Easiest way to get most (but not everything) of this:  Columbia's 4(?) cd
box Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.

His collaboration with Jimmie Rodgers "Blue Yodel #9" is also a delight.

Matt
- ---
Matt Laferty
Department of English, General Literature, & Rhetoric
Binghamton University
PO Box 6000
Binghamton, NY 13902
607.777.2754
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 12:03:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ryan Novak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gustafsson

Hi,

I remember Mats Gustafsson and John Butcher being
mentioned a while ago here, and though I still don't
know anything about Butcher, I've learned a hell of a
lot more about Gustafsson by buying "Parrot Fish Eye"
which was great and then "Mouth Eating Trees and
Related Activities" which is phenomenal.

So the question is this:  What would you recommend for
similar free-improv from any of the "Mouth Eating
Trees.." personnel?  Also, am highly interested the
limited Gustafsson/Hamid Drake disc, "For Don Cherry",
but Okka is sold out.  Know where I can get it?

Thanks much.

- ---Ryan N.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:10:38 -0400
From: Maurice Rickard <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong?

At 2:28 PM -0500 8/7/00, Steve Smith wrote:
<Much, much great advice snipped>
>
>A bit long-winded, but I hope this is what you had in mind.
>

Excellent!  This gives me a lot to go on.  I've actually been quite
taken with the Hot 5 and Hot 7 stuff I've heard, and I had just seen
that the Legacy box is about to drop.  I was leaning toward it, and
I'm probably going to take the plunge, as long as the Earl Hines
recordings are included.  My knowledge of the other periods is sadly
trivial, so your guide is a big help.  I can dip into those after
checking out the Hot 5 and 7 stuff.

The Legacy box does indeed seem to have some killer tracks, btw:
http://legacyrecordings.com/LouisArmstrong/newreleases.html#Box

Any comments on this lineup from the experts on the list?

And to address Matt's and Martin's points, having listened with
attention to "West End Blues" the other day is what has lit this fire
under me.  Beautiful.

Thanks to everyone who's responded,
Maurice
- --
Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:47:44 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Hip Hop Cobra

I couldn't make it to Tonic on the night of this curious line up for a Cobra
piece. Anyone care to review? Thank you.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:05:59 -0400
From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hip Hop Cobra

Hello OnionPalac,

Monday, August 07, 2000, you wrote to me:

Oac> I couldn't make it to Tonic on the night of this curious line up
Oac> for a Cobra piece. Anyone care to review? Thank you.

Well, I cannot write normal review because I know almost nothing about
Cibo Matto. But...

I was on the first set. It was extremely funny and fun to see all
these people on stage. The audience was a strange mix of normal Tonic
fans and young girls and boys who tried to dance.

The musicians I know were Arto Lindsay, Ben Perowski, Sean Lennon and
Sebastian Steinberg. Others were members of Cibo Matto and some guests
I never saw before.

Perowski played in his usual very straight manner, but this time it
was good and I liked it. Lindsay was not playing guitar but making
funny sounds only. It was really great. The weird thing was that
Lennon couldn't play bass at all. It seemed that he neither knew how
to play nor understood the rules of Cobra. But it was not so bad
though because there were so many other musicians and sounds.

John Zorn was sitting at the table with all these signs and was
managing the whole performance. He looked very happy with this music.


I think I cannot add something else about it. Sorry.

- --
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]
URL: http://www.shkin.com/downtown/



- -

------------------------------

Date: 7 Aug 2000 20:05:07 -0000
From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: masada influences

Much has been said about the obvious template that Ornette
Coleman's groundbreaking quartet provides for the Masada
group, but lately I've been listening to Don Cherry's
'Complete Communion' date from 1965 on Blue Note (recently
reissued, great sound) and finding it to be the 'long
lost' Masada date! Check it out, with the fiery tenor
playing of Gato Barbieri (what happened to that guy?) and
Henry Grimes bass and Ed Blackwell drums. Another record
that I figure had a big influence on Zorn is the Charles
Earland soundtrack to 'The Dynamite Brothers' which found
the funky 'barbeque' organ playing of Earland moving 'out'
with the help from some of the Herbie Hancock 'Sextant'
crowd, like Eddie Henderson trumpet, Pat Gleeson
synthesisers, and Billy Hart drums. But especially
intriguing is the sax and flute playing of Dave Hubbard,
anyone know any other dates he's played on? Finally, the
best 'new' date I've discovered is from Michael Riessler,
a German clarinetist & composer, whose work encompasses
jazz, 'new music' & 'world' music, and who has worked with
Steve Reich, John Cage, Vinko Globokar, etc. His new CD,
entitled 'Orange' on the ACT Music label has him playing
in a very unique ensemble with Elise Caron vocals, Jean
Louis Matinier accordion, and Pierre Charial, who coaxes
the most amazing sounds out of a barrel organ. Riessler
has previously worked with Valentin Clastrier who plays
the hurdy-gurdy (Palude is the result of this other
brilliant collaboration), and one can only be astounded by
the electronic sounding timbres that these old instruments
are capable of producing. Well worth the effort tracking
down these albums..

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:50:42 -0400
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hip Hop Cobra

Does anyone care to give any input on Sean Lennon?  From what I have
seen he's not that great. I witnessed "Sean Lennon and Friends"
during the Circuit Foundation nights at Tonic.  It seemed more like
the Yuka Honda show with Yoko Ono's irrepressible orgasm sounds
throughout.  Yuka definitely ran the show and Sean seemed to be
looking to her (and perhaps others) for direction.  Even though he
wasn't in charge, he still didn't seem to be contributing much to the
music.  I though it was funny when, after direction from Yoko, he
said through the PA to the sound person, "Make sure to have my
moth--her mic on... at all times."

Dan Hewins

NP: Blue Man Group "Audio" (it was a gift from my mom...it's pretty
good though)


>The weird thing was that
>Lennon couldn't play bass at all. It seemed that he neither knew how
>to play nor understood the rules of Cobra. But it was not so bad
>though because there were so many other musicians and sounds.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 15:59:48 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Gustafsson

>"Mouth Eating Trees.." personnel?

i can't remember off hand the personnel here but I'll stick up for "You
forget to answer" with Barry guy and Raymond Strid.

Matt Wirzbicki

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:44:54 -0500
From: "abulafia" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Further into the SY issue.

> "Arthur Gadney"
> 4. A THOUSAND LEAVES - This one came after the and the woodshedding of the
first few SYR EPs, and strikes me as
> both a return to form and a wistful, almost valedictory set from an edgy
> group finally easing into middle-aged maturity.  I enjoyed this one much
> more than I expected to.

    I must say I find this stament rather hard to understand in that many of
the tracks on "A Thousand Leaves" are clearly further developments on the
very arrangments on the first two SYR EP's.

& as for the "disappointing 'Washing Machine'", i find my self in roughfly
the same spot as Jon

" I think that Diamond Sea, the epic closer on Washing Machine, is easily
the best thing in their entire catalog."

More I would say it struck me as the best thing in there entire catolog the
first time i heard it.  since than I can't make up my mind between that,
"Hoarfrost", "SkipTracer", "Hits of Sunshine", "Freecity Rymes", or "NYC
Ghost's & Flowers".??!! (or many others on any given day really)  This makes
me think maybe the split that seems to come up between the SY camps, that is
the before-Diamond Sea camp(BDS) & the after-Diamond Sea camp(ADS?) [I make
the split at the song not the album because without the song the album would
not have been that diffrent from the usual rate of SY forwad progress, &
also I dont think that there output since then would look anything like it
dose now.] might tell us that SY is simply making albums of a diffrent sort
now.  In BDS era SY, I can not easaly name my favorite song on the album, i
can name the stronger ones.  the ones that work the best for me.  I think
that is because the songs of the BDS era were more of a singular nature
accros the album.  more variations on a theme.  Listen to the structure of
'Silver Rocket' & 'Teenage Riot', both on "Daydream Nation".  Pop riff,
suddon noise, slowly turned into riff, pop riff.  Great stuff, but that idea
is carried all through the album.  But now in ADS era there albums seem less
concerend with reworking the same ground, and more looking to try as many
different things as are apropreate.  Now this dose make missing the target
more likly, but with a band like SY, I think the hit's (in a strickly
Platonic since) are more than worth it.  It also makes for a more fragmented
sounding album, something the ADS album certainly are not.  I see this as
the cause for the increase in poor revues in the past 5 years, "wahing
machine" being in 95'.  So I think there albums as a whole piece were more,
quote, (make little international quote gesture here) "album like"  in the
BDS era, and therefor better albums (in the Beatel's since of the word), but
that as I started of saying my most common favorite SY
"recordings/singles/songs" are mostly form there ADS period.  So there you
are.


"The only thing we have to fear is,...    those freaks in the NRA"
JG
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:45:50 -0700
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [Not Our] John The Generator

Some of you might enjoy the 'John Cage Random Quote Generator' we just
activated on the pfMENTUM website:

http://www.pfmentum.com/cage.html


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:48:11 -0700
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Not Our] John The Generator

PS

In case you haven't done the Generator thing, every time you go to that page
you get a different quote...or every time you 'refresh'.

http://www.pfmentum.com/cage.html



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 09:20:21 +0200
From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Band of Joey Baron

Hello,

sorry to raise this topic again, but I had quite some off list replies of
people concerning my question where the cd of Killer Joey (new band of joey
baron) could be obtained besides at his concerts.

Reads below and smile....

Stefan Verstraeten

- -----Original Message-----

Hi Stefan,
Joey is supposed to drop me off copies this week.  Also a new cd
by Joey's band Down Home w/ Frisell, Arthur Blythe & Ron Carter will
also be here in the next week or two. Let us know which you want & we
will ship as soon as we get them.  Mailing address & credit card info
will also help speed up the process.  Take care,  Bruce from DMG

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 09:39:26 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Miles Reissues

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>

> As I understand it,  "On the Corner" has no extra tracks.

But there should be some extra material somewhere in the archieves.
Considering the way that music is edited, there should be plenty of that
stuff. I just can't wait for the complete '70s Miles Box. As those records
were hardly released in USA and Europe, there may be loads of tracks that
where unissued anywhere.
That brings another question...

> Well, while the tracks on the "Big Fun" reissue are in the Bitches
> Box, I'm told that the "Great Expectations" on it is several minutes
> longer than the boxed edition.

I HATE THE WAY THOSE GUYS ARE MAKING MONEY!!!
I spent a lot of money on the boxed set, and one of the reasons for it were
the 'Big fun' tunes. And now I don't have the most complete version... I
hope some of my friends will buy it  and i'll be able to cdr it.
My version lasts 13:45. Can you check out yours?
BTW the extra tunes from the BF sessions on the boxed set are incredible.
Soemthing really magical was happening (and those guys are publishing it
only now...)

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 14:37:55 -0300
From: "Gustavo Broggi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Filmoworks II

I┤ve bought filworks III a couple of weeks ago and it is amazing!!, great
cd, strongly recommended

Gustavo
- -----Mensaje original-----
De: Marcin Gokieli <[e-mail]>
Para: Zorn List <[e-mail]>
Fecha: Martes 1 de Agosto de 2000 20:58
Asunto: Filmoworks II


>Hi,
>    I listen recently to Filmowrks II intensively. An incredible album! My
>fave Zorn at the moment!
>Two questions:
>a) What was the film the music is suppposed to illustate like? The info on
>the disc are not very extensive.
>b) Some similiar JZ records? (maybe Elegy would be the closest i know)
>Be well,
>Marcin Gokieli
>[e-mail]
>Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
>are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor
>
>
>-
>
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 08:25:08 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Cynical Hysterie Hour

Hi all,  i just listed my ORIGINAL copy of  Cynical Hysterie Hour on Ebay if
anyone is interested in this super-rare disc. <A
HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=404184962">eBay
item 404184962</A>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 15:08:56 +0100
From: Stephen Rigg <[e-mail]>
Subject: David Moss - Full House & Dense Band.

Just a quick note regarding the David Moss recordings Zorn was involved with
in the late 70s/early 80s. They both appear to have been reissued on cd by
Moers Music, albeit at import price. I would very much appreciate any
background info., or simply a hearty recommendation would probably do it.
Cheers!

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 10:13:05 CDT
From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: bad mf, aka bad oedipus, aka Sean Lennon

Hewins broke it down:
>Does anyone care to give any input on Sean Lennon?  From what I have
>seen he's not that great...I though it was funny when, after direction from
>Yoko, he
>said through the PA to the sound person, "Make sure to have my
>moth--her mic on... at all times."

If there are any among us with extensive knowledge of psychoanalysis, it
would be terrific to reconstruct Sean Lennon as Oedipal Warrior.  Struggling
to slay the father, yet the father is absent: the turn toward the mother is
made problematic....well, maybe not.  I found BEYOND THE SUN, or whatever
his debut was called, a little weak; watching him frolic with Yuka
(somewhere, I think it was EmptyV, er, MTV) was a little saccharine for my
tastes.  He is a child told several too many times that he is creative and
that people will care about his contributions.  Consequently, he took this
as a given.

- ----s

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 13:36:17 -0400
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Buying CDs (who it benefits)

There has been a lot of discussion on this list regarding the
morality of copying CDs (and the whole Napster thing).  I know that,
through the sieve, people like Dave Douglas and Chris Speed, etc.,
and, I assume, to a larger extent, Zorn benefit from the purchase of
one of their CDs (or LPs).  Zorn benefiting more so because of his
ownership of the record label, Douglas and Speed, etc. benefiting
only through the terms of their contracts with the labels.

My question is who is benefiting from the sales of Charlie Parker
records and compilations?  Miles Davis reissue after reissue?  I know
the answer is "their estate" but somehow that's not good enough for
me.  I know that the record companies are making and remaking all of
these records and I'm sure they're getting a lot out of it.  And
"their estate" didn't make the music or record it or pay for the
recording, it's just related to all of that or left in a will, etc.
I realize that people can do what they like with their assets once
they pass... It's like passing on an investment.  Even though it
makes sense to me there is still that lingering feeling that tells me
that I shouldn't feel as bad about copying these older records of
passed musicians.  I don't do it (now) but I get that feeling.

Just some thoughts.

Dan Hewins

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #7
*****************************


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