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Zorn List Digest       Wednesday, March 22 2000       Volume 02 : Number 895



In this issue:
-
       Re: promo Ersthwile records
       re: Charly/BYG/Actuel/poverty/theft/end of the world as we know it.
       Re: promo Ersthwile records
       bailey/ bennink on incus
       vision fest prices
       Odp: Odp: Inside Out, S. Rivers, D.Cherry, I. Stravinsky
       Odp: Odp: Inside Out, S. Rivers, D.Cherry, I. Stravinsky
       Re: promo Ersthwile records
       HIPS ROAD
       painkiller
       Re: painkiller
       Marsalis in Jazz Times
       Re: Marsalis in Jazz Times
       Re: Marsalis in Jazz Times
       Re: Marsalis in Jazz Times
       Re: Marsalis in Jazz Times
       Re: Marsalis in Jazz Times
       Cadence Hat Art sale
       country & western / bluegrass / thank you!
       makigami koichi (was: Re: painkiller)
       Re: country & western / bluegrass / thank you!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:02:43 +0100
From: Julien Quint <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: promo Ersthwile records

[e-mail] said:
> Haven't heard Drumm/Tetreault yet or (drool) Rowe/Muller/Sugimoto.

I saw Kevin Drumm on friday, when he played in my town a duet with Axel D=
=F6rmer =

on trumpet (whom I didn't know but impressed me). Too bad I failed to pic=
k up =

the CD with Matrin Tetreault, hope I will before it gets out of print :)

> Given the enormous potential of the releases in preparation, one is
> probably well-advised to have the complete collection, otherwise 20
> years from now you'll feel like me for not having picked up the entire
> BYG/Actuel catalog when I had the chance!

Well, now might be your chance: on friday, I also picked up a CD reissue =
of =

two Art Ensemble of Chicago BYG/Actuel LPs. Charly is doing cheap reissue=
s of =

the BYG/Actuel catalog it seems, starting with Don Cherry, Sun Ra, and a =

Pharoah Sanders (?). The sleeves are terribly ugly though.

Julien



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:12:24 -0500
From: Taylor McLaren <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Charly/BYG/Actuel/poverty/theft/end of the world as we know it.

MEEP! [e-mail] wrote:
>Well, now might be your chance: on friday, I also picked up a CD reissue of
>two Art Ensemble of Chicago BYG/Actuel LPs. Charly is doing cheap reissues
of
>the BYG/Actuel catalog it seems, starting with Don Cherry, Sun Ra, and a
>Pharoah Sanders (?). The sleeves are terribly ugly though.
It's probably also worth mentioning that Charly doesn't exactly have the
best track record when it comes to arranging for re-issues for which the
original artists actually get paid; the first example that comes to mind
would be their string of cheap Golden Palominos discs from a couple of
years ago (I think there are still a couple of different best-of discs
clogging the shelves in most of the chain stores around here), which
prompted complaints from Anton Fier about both the lack of money and what
he considered to be a lousy mastering job. (And then there are those cursed
Coil re-issues on Some Bizzare...)

- -me



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:28:47 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: promo Ersthwile records

In a message dated 3/20/00 3:05:53 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I saw Kevin Drumm on friday, when he played in my town a duet with Axel=20
D=F6rmer=20

on trumpet (whom I didn't know but impressed me). >>

this duo also has a CD in the pipeline for Erstwhile, hopefully out in late=20
summer or early fall, compiled both from material from the European tour=20
which they're on now, and some studio material which Jim O'Rourke recorded i=
n=20
Chicago a few weeks ago.

<<Charly is doing cheap reissues of=20

the BYG/Actuel catalog it seems, starting with Don Cherry, Sun Ra, and a=20

Pharoah Sanders (?).>>

Archie Shepp is the fourth one, not Pharoah, just for the record.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:12:13 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: bailey/ bennink on incus

Any reviews/recommendations on the derek bailey/han bennink release on
incus? sorry if this has come up before and i missed it.

Martin

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:08:36 PST
From: "Matt Krefting" <[e-mail]>
Subject: vision fest prices

hi zorners
i was wondering if anyone could tell me about how much tix for the vision
festival in nyc cost? the schedule is so bitchin' that i want to go to
almost the entire thing, but it's gotta be heavy bank. thanks much...
matt
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:14:54 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Odp: Inside Out, S. Rivers, D.Cherry, I. Stravinsky

> The composition date is given, if I remember well, as [1914-1923]. This
> is the reason of a lot of problems since the spirit of the composition
> is close to THE RITE, but it was created in France in 1923, when
> Stravinsky had already switched to his "relecture" of classical style
> (PULCINELLA, MAVRA, etc).
> I never heard that Stravinsky intended it as "large orchestra (+voices)
> piece." But I might just disagree on what "large orchestra" means :-).
Well, i'm not sure because  i do not have my books on IS at home now (and i
caaanot find and the only one which should be here), but i'm quite sure that
when he wrote it in 1914 he thought of it as of a large (full symphony)
orchestra piece. But the ...
OK, I've just found the book ;-). So Marcel Marnat (in his french book
'stravinsky', edition seuil - solfeges; not a very good book IMHO, he omits
important facts, some opinions are strange, but has a a few nice photos -
one from Hockney's scenography for the Rake - i've got the entire thing on
VHS now. What a show!) writes (p. 60) that the first version requiered a
large (ie 150 musicians - includiding hapriscord and cymablum). What's more
it seems to be finished ('complete, en dehors des quelques raccords').

> What I remember was that he wanted to use mechanical pianos but gave up on
> the idea because they were impossible to synchronize. With the recent talk
> about resurrecting old-impossible-to-play compositions with mechanical/
> electric instruments, maybe we will see one day Stravinsky's dream
> concretized.
>
> Also, to my knowledge, there are only two versions of LES NOCES available
> on CD. The most common one was finished in 1923 (piano + large choir +
> percussion), and there is also a second and older version (with chamber
> ensemble). It is usually sung in French or Russian, although Stravinsky
> was not affraid to record it in... English!!! I doubt that nobody else
> would have dare to do such blasphemous choice.
I' ve never seen the other version - could you indicate me were can i find
the orchestral one?

> Thanks for the tip with the balalaikas (where did you read about it, BTW)!
> I would love somebody to try it.
Marnat writes that two first parts were arranged for (sorry i do not use
correct english intrument names): two cymbalums, harmonium, pianola, 3
'tambours', a 'tambourin', a 'grosse caisse' (what is it, BTW?- some french
readres might help...), triangle and 'petits cymbales sur pied' (any
ideas?). No balaikas as i thought before, but strange enough.
It would be nice to hear it now... some Uri Caine Ensemble might try to make
a mix of the versions - what do you think about it?...

I do think the
"Oh Nick, I had the strangest dream!
I thought -  how could I know what I was never taught?"
Stravinsky/Auden "The Rake's Progress"



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:14:54 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Odp: Inside Out, S. Rivers, D.Cherry, I. Stravinsky

> The composition date is given, if I remember well, as [1914-1923]. This
> is the reason of a lot of problems since the spirit of the composition
> is close to THE RITE, but it was created in France in 1923, when
> Stravinsky had already switched to his "relecture" of classical style
> (PULCINELLA, MAVRA, etc).
> I never heard that Stravinsky intended it as "large orchestra (+voices)
> piece." But I might just disagree on what "large orchestra" means :-).
Well, i'm not sure because  i do not have my books on IS at home now (and i
caaanot find and the only one which should be here), but i'm quite sure that
when he wrote it in 1914 he thought of it as of a large (full symphony)
orchestra piece. But the ...
OK, I've just found the book ;-). So Marcel Marnat (in his french book
'stravinsky', edition seuil - solfeges; not a very good book IMHO, he omits
important facts, some opinions are strange, but has a a few nice photos -
one from Hockney's scenography for the Rake - i've got the entire thing on
VHS now. What a show!) writes (p. 60) that the first version requiered a
large (ie 150 musicians - includiding hapriscord and cymablum). What's more
it seems to be finished ('complete, en dehors des quelques raccords').

> What I remember was that he wanted to use mechanical pianos but gave up on
> the idea because they were impossible to synchronize. With the recent talk
> about resurrecting old-impossible-to-play compositions with mechanical/
> electric instruments, maybe we will see one day Stravinsky's dream
> concretized.
>
> Also, to my knowledge, there are only two versions of LES NOCES available
> on CD. The most common one was finished in 1923 (piano + large choir +
> percussion), and there is also a second and older version (with chamber
> ensemble). It is usually sung in French or Russian, although Stravinsky
> was not affraid to record it in... English!!! I doubt that nobody else
> would have dare to do such blasphemous choice.
I' ve never seen the other version - could you indicate me were can i find
the orchestral one?

> Thanks for the tip with the balalaikas (where did you read about it, BTW)!
> I would love somebody to try it.
Marnat writes that two first parts were arranged for (sorry i do not use
correct english intrument names): two cymbalums, harmonium, pianola, 3
'tambours', a 'tambourin', a 'grosse caisse' (what is it, BTW?- some french
readres might help...), triangle and 'petits cymbales sur pied' (any
ideas?). No balaikas as i thought before, but strange enough.
It would be nice to hear it now... some Uri Caine Ensemble might try to make
a mix of the versions - what do you think about it?...

I do think the
"Oh Nick, I had the strangest dream!
I thought -  how could I know what I was never taught?"
Stravinsky/Auden "The Rake's Progress"



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:10:42 +0100 (MET)
From: Steve Berman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: promo Ersthwile records

[e-mail] writes:

 > I saw Kevin Drumm on friday, when he played in my town a duet with
 > Axel D÷rmer on trumpet (whom I didn't know but impressed me).

That's Axel D÷rner. He's played with the Berlin Contemporary Jazz
Orchestra, Chris Burn's Ensemble, and Lines, among others. For more
information see his entry at Peter Stubley's European Free
Improvisation website <www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/ehome.html>.
- --Steve Berman

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 06:24:02 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: HIPS ROAD

So what exactly does it mean, "A PROJECT OF HIPS ROAD"?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:13:50 +0100
From: "in.out" <[e-mail]>
Subject: painkiller

Viergehi zorner,
Is anybody knows where the Marianne track included in the Painkiller 4 CD
"Execution Ground" Tzadik re-issue come from ?(original CD or session)
Same question about the Fourth CD tracks : Are they live and who and where
were they originaly released=2E
Thank for the big brains who will work on that=2E
Mikl

In-Out Cd Store
15 avenue N=F4tre Dame
06000 Nice
Tel/Fax : [phone]
e-mail : in=2Eout@wanadoo=2Efr


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:28:26 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: painkiller

On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:13:50 +0100  "in.out" wrote:
>
> Is anybody knows where the Marianne track included in the Painkiller 4 CD
> "Execution Ground" Tzadik re-issue come from ?(original CD or session)
> Same question about the Fourth CD tracks : Are they live and who and where
> were they originaly released.

Marianne comes from:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** - KOROSHI NO BLUES: Makigami Koichi

    1993 - Toshiba-EMI Japan, TOCT-6496 (CD)

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:24:28 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Marsalis in Jazz Times

I'm no big fan of Wynton, but I found his interview in Jazz Times at
least as provocative as what Zorn has to say. I'm fascinated by his
analysis that the solo was but an element of the music until bebop,
when it became the end all, and that since bebop everybody is an
improvising soloist ad nauseum. I agree that there are a lot of
recorded jazz solos that I could do without.... Regarding his
criticisms of the avant, I wonder what he would have to say about Henry
Threadgill.... I find him hypocritical when he complains that jazz has
wrongly modeled itself after the European musical tradition -- he's the
one that wants to make jazz a repertoire music, playing the music of
dead composers in symphony halls.

Martin
NP Buckethead -- Monsters and Robots (I'm getting bored with B-head's
limited harmonic range)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 00 13:33:52 -0700
From: Douglas Tapia <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Marsalis in Jazz Times

>NP Buckethead -- Monsters and Robots
>(I'm getting bored with B-head's limited harmonic range)
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You're not alone.

- -doug

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:50:51 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Marsalis in Jazz Times

On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:24:28 -0800  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> I'm no big fan of Wynton, but I found his interview in Jazz Times at
> least as provocative as what Zorn has to say. I'm fascinated by his
> analysis that the solo was but an element of the music until bebop,
> when it became the end all, and that since bebop everybody is an
> improvising soloist ad nauseum. I agree that there are a lot of
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And we can go one step beyond: everybody is now a composer. Being a great
player is not considered good enough...

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:45:55 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Marsalis in Jazz Times

On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:24:28 -0800  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> NP Buckethead -- Monsters and Robots (I'm getting bored with B-head's
> limited harmonic range)

I read many positive reviews on that one. Is it still the same usual
Buckethead? If it is the case, I know right away how to save $14.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:50:51 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Marsalis in Jazz Times

On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:24:28 -0800  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> I'm no big fan of Wynton, but I found his interview in Jazz Times at
> least as provocative as what Zorn has to say. I'm fascinated by his
> analysis that the solo was but an element of the music until bebop,
> when it became the end all, and that since bebop everybody is an
> improvising soloist ad nauseum. I agree that there are a lot of
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And we can go one step beyond: everybody is now a composer. Being a great
player is not considered good enough...

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:49:37 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Marsalis in Jazz Times

If you mean heavy metal pyrotechniques, yes there are plenty. I've only
listened once through, with distractions at that, but my first
impression is that Praxis' Transmutation offers more variety and
shading. Here, Bootsy's occasional vocal commentary offers a bit of
levity, but generally B'head is racing all over the place -- again,
with a limited harmonic vocabulary. The riffs are all starting to sound
familiar to me. Brain on drums, that Primus bassist trading off with
Bootsy....


[e-mail] writes:

>On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:24:28 -0800  [e-mail]
>wrote:
>>
>> NP Buckethead -- Monsters and Robots (I'm getting bored with B-head's
>> limited harmonic range)

>I read many positive reviews on that one. Is it still the same usual
>Buckethead? If it is the case, I know right away how to save $14.
>
>    Patrice.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:57:04 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Cadence Hat Art sale

well, it's not as good a deal as the $5 per disc sale from a few months ago,
but the selection's better. prices are $11/single discs, $18/doubles.

http://www.cadencebuilding.com/Cadence/SpecialSales.html

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:29:09 +0100
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: country & western / bluegrass / thank you!

hi boys and girls...

doesn't the internet have a negative influence on our behaviour?! i
haven't even thanked all of you yet for helping me out on finding the
right mingus & parker stuff to buy (and books also!)... and already
would like some more recommendations!=20

so first of all: thanks a lot to all of you who took their time to
answer to my last recommendations request! (made me spend a lot of money
again...)

anyways; i hope i'm not sticking my neck out too far this time. (as far
as zorn content goes.)

i've been looking for good country & western / bluegrass stuff. but it
is rather difficult to find over here in switzerland (europe); unless
you're into garth brooks... two cds i have and love that are in a sort
of c&w style are k.d. lang's ing=E9nue and patsy cline's the very best of=
.=20

looking forward to your answers!

patRice

np: k.d. lang ing=E9nue
reading: yukio mishima's sun and steel, john steinbeck's grapes of wrath

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:23:10 +0100
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: makigami koichi (was: Re: painkiller)

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:13:50 +0100  "in.out" wrote:
 who and where
> > were they originaly released.
>
> Marianne comes from:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *** - KOROSHI NO BLUES: Makigami Koichi
>
>     1993 - Toshiba-EMI Japan, TOCT-6496 (CD)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

a good-fun cd! a lot of downtowners on it; different line-up on every
track. lots of musical genres covered.

maybe some of you remember i'm a big, big, big-time marc ribot fan -
again his work on this cd is excellent.

yours,
patRice

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:55:14 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: country & western / bluegrass / thank you!

At 10:29 AM 3/22/00 +0100, patRice wrote:
>
>i've been looking for good country & western / bluegrass stuff. but it
>is rather difficult to find over here in switzerland (europe); unless
>you're into garth brooks... two cds i have and love that are in a sort
>of c&w style are k.d. lang's ing=E9nue and patsy cline's the very best of.=
=20

For bluegrass, you can't go wrong with an album called Strength in Numbers,
all instrumental by a bunch of big names (Bela Fleck, Sam Bush, Jerry
Douglas, Mark O'Connor, Edgar Meyer).  Absolutely superb, best bluegrass
I've ever heard.  I'd also recommend Bela Fleck's work with the Flecktones,
but that's a little more outside (for bluegrass), starting to cross over to
lite jazz.

- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a
constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing.  There is more
than one way to conquer a country.

- -- Raymond Chandler

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #895
*******************************


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