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2000-02-28
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #868
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, February 29 2000 Volume 02 : Number 868
In this issue:
-
Fantastic Ray Russell reissue on Moikai!!!
2000 Vision
No girls allowed
Re: No girls allowed
Re: No girls allowed
How It Happened
Re: No girls allowed
Re: How It Happened
more on "the girl issue"
Re: How It Happened
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:06:58 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Fantastic Ray Russell reissue on Moikai!!!
I am amazed at how good the Ray Russell reissue on Moikai is. The guy
almost sounds like a Derek Bailey under LSD (to use one of these cheap compa-
risons). As if not enough, Gary Windo is blowing like a maniac. Energetic mix
of free-jazz and psychedelia. I can't believe that I have overlooked such
player.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** - LIVE AT THE I.C.A./RETROSPECTIVE: Ray Russell
Recorded on June 11, 1971
2000 - Moikai (USA), M04 (2xCD)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anybody know why Russell got silent (at least from a free-jazz point of
view) after these amazing early 70s releases? I did not even know that he was
still alive.
Should I jump on the recent Columbia reissues?
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:36:45 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: 2000 Vision
pardon me please if you've received this from another, but no doubt you'll be
excited to read from it again.
<<<< Arts For Art presents >>>>
>>>>>>>>> VISION FESTIVAL 2000 <<<<<<<<<<
<<<<<<<< MAY 19-29 >>>>>>>>
25 St Marks Place (btwn 2nd and 3rd Ave)
Inside the former Electric Circus
NEW YORK CITY
sked subj to chng, of course...
FRIDAY MAY 19
* Joseph Jarman opening invocation
* Matthew Shipp / Sunny Murray / William Parker
* Peter Kowald w. Conny Bauer & Gunter Baby Sommer
* Mark Whitecage w. Jay Rosen, Sabir Mateen, Chris Dahlgren
* Reggie Nicholson Concept w. Gene Ghee, Russel Blake, Gerald Brazal, Bruce
Edwards
SATURDAY MAY 20
* Dewey Redman Quartet w. Charles Eubanks, Matthew Wilson, John Menagon
* Jemeel Moondoc w. Khan Jamal, Nathan Breedlove, John Voight, Cody Moffett
* Nadine Mozon poet w. Nioka Workman
* Karen Borca / Rob Brown / Reggie Workman
* Brian Smith Sextet
SUNDAY MAY 21 > Jazz Violin! <
* Claude "Fiddler" Williams w. Wilber Morris, James Chirillo
* Leroy Jenkins / Felicia Norton dance
* Billy Bang w. Sirone & Abbey Radar
* Mat Maneri Quintet (Dave Ballou, Mark Dresser, Randy Peterson, Matt Moran)
w. Christine Coppola Maneri dance
MONDAY MAY 22
* Roscoe Mitchell w. Thomas Buckner, Joseph Kubera, Bartan Manoongian, Leon
Dorsey
* Gerry Hemmingway w. Robin Eubanks, Ellery Eskelin, Mark Dresser
* Craig Taborn w. Gerald Cleaver, Reid Anderson, Aaron Stewart
* Andrew Bemke Trio w. Tom Abbs & Chad Taylor
TUESDAY MAY 23
* Alan Silva / Marshall Allan / William Parker
* Ikue Mori w. Sylvie Courvoisier
* Bill Cole w. William Parker, Cooper-Moore, Joseph Daley,
Atticus Cole, Sam Furnace, Warren Smith, Tracie Morris poet
* Steve Dalachinsky poet w. Stephanie Stone
WEDNESDAY MAY 24
* Gus Solomons Jr dance w. Walter Thompson
* Yoshiko Chuma dance
* Joseph Jarman w. 11-piece Dojo Ensemble
* KJ Holmes dance w. Dave Douglas, Baikida Carroll, Roy Campbell
* Joe McPhee's "Bluette" w. Michael Bisio, Dominic Duval, Joe Giardullo
* David Budbill poet & William Parker
THURSDAY MAY 25
* Francesca Harper dance w. DJ Spooky
* Patricia Nicholson dance w. Billy Bang, William Parker, Hamid Drake
* David S. Ware Solo
* Cooper Moore Choir "From the Sea"
w Sharon Heller, Jane Gabriels, Lisa Sokolov, Tiye Giraud, Aleta Hayes,
Ayana Lowe, Bruce Mack, Michael Wimberly, Fred L. Price
* Nami Yamamoto dance w. TEST
* Whit Dickey Trio w. Rob Brown & Chris Lightcap
FRIDAY MAY 26
* Other Dimensions In Music w. Matthew Shipp
* Rob Brown / Hamid Drake / Mat Maneri
* Kidd Jordan w. Alvin Feidler, Joel Futterman, William Parker
* Sarah Jones poet
* Perry Robinson w. Cristoph Adams, Ed Schuller, Ernst Bier
* Michelle Rosewoman
SATURDAY MAY 27
* Bill Dixon & Vision Orchestra
* Joe Morris Trio w. Timo Shanko & Gerald Cleaver
* Bobby Few Solo
* Steve Cannon poet w. Latasha Natasha & Evan Torres
* Miguel Algarin poet
SUNDAY MAY 28
* William Parker & The Little Huey Creative Music Orchestra
* DJ Spooky
* Myra Melford
* Jerome Cooper Solo
* James Blood Ulmer's Music Revelation Ensemble
MONDAY MAY 29 > Julius Hemphill Tribute <
* David Murray & Dave Burrell Duo
* Oliver Lake / Joseph Bowie / Andrew Cyrille
* Julius Hemphill Sextet w. Marty Ehrlich, Andrew White,
Sam Furrnace, Andy Laster, Alex Harding, Aaron Stewart
* Maria Mitchell dance
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:24:50 -0800
From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com
Subject: No girls allowed
Zornlist question of the day:
Why is it predominantly guys that are so fascinated by this avant music
we listen to?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:47:51 EST
From: "ajda snyder" <freequeen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: No girls allowed
Hello. I think I have an answer.
Personally, my theory is that it has to do with the larger problem of why
are guys more into music period(on a more serious and committed level
anyway)??
I think it's because girls aren't brought up in ways that that would lead
them to things like music the same way boys are. I mean, it's so normal for
a young male to take up guitar or sax, but girls aren't encouraged in that
same way to be artistic and/or expressive. They are raised to be distracted
with beauty products and things of the like. Girls and women tend to watch
TV more than listen to records or go out alone at night to see shows. And
with the whole avant thing, it seems to me like the average female is only
slightly more repulsed by it than the average male.
As a female, I have experienced and witnessed this phenomenon. Some how,
primarily through exposure to college radio from a male friend when I was in
high school, I broke through this. Music is my foremost love and obsession
- - both playing and listening. The honest result of this: almost all of my
close friends are male.
I mean, just think of this - what's the female equivalent of the Beatles??
Madonna, maybe. But she is more of a highly sexualized farce.
Not a gripe, just an observation of how there are less girls into things
like music, and math, and science, and fine arts, and ...etcetc
Ajda, the Turksih Queen
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:27:01 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: No girls allowed
On Tue, Feb 29, 2000 at 02:47:51PM -0500, ajda snyder wrote:
> I think it's because girls aren't brought up in ways that that would lead
> them to things like music the same way boys are. I mean, it's so normal for
> a young male to take up guitar or sax, but girls aren't encouraged in that
> same way to be artistic and/or expressive. They are raised to be distracted
> with beauty products and things of the like. Girls and women tend to watch
> TV more than listen to records or go out alone at night to see shows.
I've seen this discussed from a different angle: that girls are more
socialized to group activities, and less encouraged to solitary
activities such as practicing an instrument for hours on end, hacking,
or obsessive collecting. Though there are exceptions.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:08:07 EST
From: Reaboi@aol.com
Subject: How It Happened
[sorry about the length; these things were so interesting to read, I felt I=20=
needed to contribute.]
The first record I ever bought was the 45 for Weird Al Yankovich=92s =93Eat=20=
It.=94 I got the LP and cassette soon after, and I=92m sure I still know all=
the words to those ridiculous tunes=85 In eighth grade I got a free ticket=20=
to see Paul McCartney play in concert, so I became a huge Beatles fan. I was=
obsessive=97I guess as obsessive as I am about pretty much all music now=
=97and I started to fork over all the money that would flow through my hands=
and pockets to this record guy who became my mentor-figure in classic rock=20=
and psychedellia. At an average price of $25 a disc, I was spending all the=
cash I could on poorly recorded noises that were allegedly created by Georg=
e Harrison in a stadium with Billy Preston in the 70s, McCartney on the set=20=
of a tv interview show, or Lennon and Yoko talking about Sean on a home vide=
o. After a few years of this, I realized I knew little about music in genera=
l and a ton of obscure information. I needed a change.
I started listening to jazz through pianists like Vince Guaraldi and Bill Ev=
ans and Wes Montgomery, thinking it was sophisticated, cultured music. From=20=
there it was a short time before my taste encompassed =91cool jazz=92 in it=
=92s entirety, and Bossa Nova. I know it seems awful clich=E9=92d, but I was=
young. I still dig that music a lot, though I can=92t recall the last time=20=
I put on anything in that category other than Bill Evans (I still listen to=20=
=93Moonbeams=94 on Riverside fairly regularly, blown away by the totally und=
er-rated trio with Paul Motian and Chuck Israels). At the same time I was li=
stening to the Who and Funkadelic.=20
There was one particularly beautiful summer afternoon before my freshman yea=
r at college that changed everything. In those days we did a lot of driving=20=
around in suburban Jersey and NYC, usually stoned in my old white 1986 La Ba=
ron convertible piece-of-shit. A favorite ritual excursion was the one to th=
e record shop. That day, temptation and curiosity made me buy two discs that=
would change my life:=20
Charles Mingus / =93New Tijuana Moods=94 (RCA)
Sun Ra / =93Cosmic Tones for Mental Therapy=94 (Evidence)
We smoked and smoked and smoked, listening to these discs in shock and the m=
ost delightful horror. We didn=92t believe people had the chutzpah to write=20=
that way or play that way. It was so out (for us, at that time). =93Ysabel=
=92s Table Dance=94 a great example of program music, and still one of my fa=
vorite of Mingus=92 compositions.
I jumped right into Coltrane, Dolphy, Ornette, Shepp, Giuffre, Bley, etc etc=
. Listening to Charlie Haden on Ornette=92s =93Science Fiction=94 (Columbia)=
and =93This Is Our Music=94 (Atlantic), his own =93Liberation Music Orchest=
ra=94 (Impulse!) and =93Gitane=94 (Dreyfus) made me want to play bass, simpl=
e as that. So I bought one and started that process=85. I even formed an Ark=
estra-like small combo that had a Saturday night gig at a bizarre French bis=
tro in Washington, DC.
Upon graduating college, I was kind of depressed and lost. Paul Bley was my=20=
musical hero, expressing everything I wanted to so eloquently. He could play=
a beautiful ballad totally free, and that blew my mind. The thing about Ble=
y, though, is that you tend to become obsessed. So I had a ton of his record=
ings, a lot of which were very similar=85. Again I needed something new. I t=
ried =93Naked City=94 at that point=97thought it was hysterical and a great=20=
parody but, as I was never into that type of music, I had trouble relating.=20=
(Not so today.)
I thought San Francisco would change a lot of that, so I moved in with my da=
d=92s crazy cousin who was an astrologer and faith-healer there. My first we=
ek there I found =93Bar Kokhba=94 (you know which label) in Border=92s and b=
ought it along with that great set =93Coltrane in Japan=94 (Impulse!). I thr=
ew the Zorn disc into the player and walked up and down through the fog-coat=
ed streets of Russuan Hill and Nob Hill. Damn it was good; I was on another=20=
planet, and I found something to relate to.
In the next few months I bought up any discs with Downtown players on it, wi=
th Mark Dresser=92s, Dave Douglas=92 and Erik Friedlander=92s solo work blow=
ing me away especially. I was hooked=97and I knew I had to go back to New Yo=
rk to find this music.=20
So I did.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:12:12 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: No girls allowed
On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:24:50 -0800 Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com wrote:
>
> Why is it predominantly guys that are so fascinated by this avant music
> we listen to?
If it were only in music...
Fanatism seems to be a male specialty (as well as taking ourselves too
seriously...). We still live in a society where it is fine for a man to
put his passions/work above anything else, whereas a woman doing the
same is considered as an anomaly.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:38:54 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: How It Happened
On Tue, Feb 29, 2000 at 03:08:07PM -0500, Reaboi@aol.com wrote (apparentl=
y
using a really munging email interface):
> I jumped right into Coltrane, Dolphy, Ornette, Shepp, Giuffre, Bley, et=
c etc. Listening to Charlie Haden on Ornette=92s =93Science Fiction=94 (C=
olumbia) and =93This Is Our Music=94 (Atlantic), his own =93Liberation Mu=
sic Orchestra=94 (Impulse!) and =93Gitane=94 (Dreyfus) made me want to pl=
ay bass, simple as that. So I bought one and started that process=85. I e=
ven formed an Arkestra-like small combo that had a Saturday night gig at =
a bizarre French bistro in Washington, DC.
Listening to Haden got me into playing bass, too.
Well, him and Derek Smalls...
- --=20
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:55:48 EST
From: "margo red" <margo_red@hotmail.com>
Subject: more on "the girl issue"
Even though Adja and a few other people have offered insights into the
general question of the place of women in Western society, it seems we're
all kind of skirting the whole "Why are there more female Zorn fans?" thing.
I don't have any kind of ultimate answer, but I do have a few comments to
add. Obviously certain musical styles are tied to particular genders. If
this were an Indigo Girls list my guess is that the male:female ratio would
be reversed. For me (and for quite a few of my female friends) the idea of
prog-rock (which I've noticed many people on this list were once into) or
complexity over simplicity is frankly a turn-off. While Zorn is far from
prog-rock, many of his fans do sight complexity as an attractive feature of
his music. There's also the whole death metal thing. That whole style is
really male centered (and if you want to know more about gender
constructions in heavy metal you can go read Robert Walsch). I really
really like so much of Zorn's music. Masada is great. Naked City can be a
lot of fun. I really like Zorn's sense of humor (at least I'm taking it as
humor) in some of his more "classical works." However, I can only take
Painkiller in small doses. And honey, don't even get me started on the
album art thing (which has already been covered quite a bit in recent
months). Call me "girly" and naive, but a picture of a woman with scissor
handles sticking out of her neck is not funny or ironic. Sometimes all of
this gives me kind of a hard time because I want so badly to think some of
these potentially sexist elements are pure parody. I hope nobody's going to
have a freak over what I've written. I just thought I'd put my 2 cents in.
- -Margo Red
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:58:48 -0800
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: How It Happened
For me, it was a couple of key records and concerts at the right time. I
was a prog-rock fan through high school (like any self-respecting asocial
music geek would have been in the late '70's). Playing piano in the high
school stage band, the band director turned me on to a bunch of jazz,
including Bitches Brew, which seemed like the most fascinating and obscure
music I'd ever heard. Listened to it intensively (usually while stoned) for
years. That lead to Mahavishnu, Weather Report, Return to Forever, the rest
of the whole fusion bandwagon, but Miles' stuff always had an elusive
quality that drew me back.
In college in the early 80's, I took an introduction to Jazz class which
was fairly square (the final project was an analysis of Brubeck's "Blue
Rondo Ala Turk"), but on the list of recommended concerts for the term was
Ornette Coleman and Prime Time. I knew about Ornette from our jazz history
text, but it only mentioned his early quartet. Went to the Prime Time show,
and it was like a switch was flipped in my head. This was around the time
of "Of Human Feelings", with Jamaladeen Tacuma on bass. This band had all
the chops of my fusion heroes, but went so much further out. I knew I had
to be playing this kind of music.
Also, at about the same time, I picked up the Material "Memory Serves" lp
on Elektra, which was my introduction to the NY Downtown scene. I remember
buying it because it had Fred Frith on it, and I had heard that he was
cool, though I don't think I'd heard Frith before then. This led to a
massive Bill Laswell fixation (I'd started playing bass by then), that I
unfortunately still suffer from today.
I think I first heard Zorn on the first Golden Palominos record, but the
first thing of his that really blew me away was his arrangement of "Shuffle
Boil" on the Hal Wilner's Monk tribute lp "That's the way I feel now".
Other major records from that period were Tim Berne's "Fulton Street Maul",
and Mark Johnson's first Bass Desires CD, which were what turned me onto
Bill Frisell.
I remember that by the time the first Naked City record came out, I was a
total Zorn fan. I thought that this was the record that would finally
convince everyone how brilliant Zorn was, and proselytized the record
endlessly. I think it just ended up annoying my friends even more, though
many of them are into Zorn now.
____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #868
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