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1998-03-22
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #269
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, March 23 1998 Volume 02 : Number 269
In this issue:
-
Re: A Fistful of Film Music
Re: Musique Concrete
john oswald plunderphonics
Re: A Fistful of Film Music
Re: Steve Beresford
Re: Tzadik re-issue
Re: Braxton House
Re: musique concrete
Re[2]: Musique Concrete
[none]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:18:44 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: A Fistful of Film Music
Speaking of the man, has anyone heard "Dancing With Morricone"? It looks
pretty interesting but I wonder whether it would be better to get
soundtracks of separate movies?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:49:00 +0100 (MET)
From: Geert Buelens <buelens@uia.ua.ac.be>
Subject: Re: Musique Concrete
On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 flamerik@best.ms.philips.com wrote:
> I totally agree with Caleb Deupree that it is virtually impossible to find
> musique concrete. When I asked at my local "classical music" record store for
> Parmegiani, they took out a catalogue as thick as a phone book, but the name
> Parmegiani wasn't in it, so they couldn't order it.
Same happened to me with a Russian (?) composer RASKATOV (don't know if
you would label that as Musique Concrete); saw a work of his performed two
years ago; one of THE musical experiences... Any idea where to find this?
geert
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:19:07 +0100
From: Stefan Verstraeten <sverstraeten@alpha.ufsia.ac.be>
Subject: john oswald plunderphonics
Dear Zornies,
A few days ago, I read articles by Chris Cutler & David Toop on John
Oswald Plunderstuff...
Naturally, I started looking for copies of his work but found nothing.
So, does anyone on this list can make me a copy of his work on minidisc
or on CD (if it's on MP3, that won't be a problem as well). Naturally,
I'll pay for the costs of copying and sending the stuff over to me...
Thanxxx already for possible answers...
- --
Stefan Verstraeten
U.F.S.I.A. - Universiteit Antwerpen
Bureau B - 421
Prinsstraat 13
B - 2000 Antwerpen
Belgium (Europe)
TEL.: +32 3 220 41 47
FAX : +32 3 220 47 99
GSM : +32 477 35 37 09
sverstraeten@ufsia.ac.be
http://www.ufsia.ac.be
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:16:01 +0100
From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com
Subject: Re: A Fistful of Film Music
> Speaking of the man, has anyone heard "Dancing With Morricone"? It looks
> pretty interesting but I wonder whether it would be better to get
> soundtracks of separate movies?
It depends, but in general I prefer compilations. The reason is this. Many of
Morricone's (as well as other people's) soundtracks consist of one or two
themes, played in any number of variations. Reasons for this are that the
soundtracks often needed to be cheap (given the kind of movies they were
designed to support), and that they were to be delivered at a fast pace (people
in Italy spoke of "this week's Morricone soundtrack" in the period '68-'72).
While the themes are often very good, the variations can get boring. This holds
true for a number of 'whole-movie' soundtracks I've heard: Una Lucertola Con La
Pelle Di Donna (which even features the main theme twice, unaltered!),
L'Antichristo, I Malamondo (to a lesser extent), etc.
A compilation album gathers a number of strong themes without any variations,
so you won't get tired easily listening to them. Only when listening to a
compilation, it gets to you how good the man was at composing great themes with
great melodies.
This said, I would be reluctant to buy anything called "Dancing With Morricone",
"Morricone Greatest Hits" or anything like that. When it comes to the well-
known stuff, the Rhino anthology is probably the best out there. There's also
a supposedly pretty good one on DRG, which I haven't heard, but probably it
does not feature much different material from the Rhino one. Once you're past
the Rhino thing, I would really recommend the Mondo Morricone and Morricone
A Go! Go! stuff, that is just mind-boggling. As far as 'whole-movie' soundtracks
go, the best I've heard is probably I Malamondo, which is re-released on CAM.
Frankco.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 05:53:58 -0800
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Steve Beresford
>
>On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote:
>
>> For that matter: what is Steve Beresford's music like, in general? I've
>> never heard it.
I had to laugh at the absurdity of the fact that when I first heard the
Stone/Yoshihide collaboration (can't remember the name of it right now) I
noticed samples of Steve Beresford's BATH OF SURPRISE in the mix. But, the
way he splashes bath water is so distinct. I cracked up when I looked at the
list of samples and saw it listed in the liner notes. That really impressed
the neighbors.
Keith
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:10:27 -0500
From: Glenn Lea <glenn_lea@avid.com>
Subject: Re: Tzadik re-issue
zippy@myna.com wrote:
>
> The HatArt Cobra is
> available at normal price.
Currently it's on sale for $14 (2 CDs) from Cadence.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 98 10:56:06 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re: Braxton House
Allow me to cautiously disagree here. I've picked up a couple of
Braxton House releases, most recently the 'Four Compositions (Quartet)
1995'. Despite its surface friendliness (the minimalistic character of
the steady pulse), I've actually found this to be some of the
thorniest music AB's created of late. I think this is so partly
because one is lulled by the pulse into expecting something along the
relatively accessible lines of 23C. But then, the lines extend
seemingly forever, the musicians break off at unexpected points to
freely improvise and there's very little in the way of resolution.
I find myself imagining a long vine with the odd tendril shooting off
at random intervals.
I've noticed a number of criticisms of his Ghost Trance work as
boring, repetitive etc. I think it might be more a matter of AB
playing with the expected (especially in jazz terms) notions of
tension and release. This listener remains very curious to hear where
this latest development takes him.
While the Ghist Trance music isn't where I'd recommend a listener new
to Braxton to dive in, those who have followed his career for a while
should definitely check out at least some of it.
Brian Olewnick
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Braxton House
Author: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu> at SMTP-for-MSSM
Date: 3/22/98 12:14 PM
Hi,
I don't remember who asked about Braxton House, but I feel compelled to
issue something of a warning. I had to review a pile of these for Cadence
last month and I was sorely underwhelmed. As a huge AB fan, I think these
are less than essential documents. True, they're continuous with portions
of his earlier work and they contain some fine individual playing from
Kevin Norton and Roland Dahinden; but I find them musically flat --
unwavering tempi, unsatisfying group interaction, little of compositional
interest. Go for the Hat Huts, the Leos, the creative orchestra stuff
first.
Jason Bivins
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:28:03 -0500
From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: musique concrete
First, an apology to hard core jazz Zornies about the length of my
responses. If you can suggest a more appropriate forum to discuss
this music, please let me know. Don't suggest the ambient list -- all
they talk about over there any more is Fax.
>>>>> "Jascha" == ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
Jascha> Things brings up the question of whether to make a
Jascha> distinction between prjects like the above, or "bands"
Jascha> such as Zoviet France,the Hafler Trio, Nurse With Wound,
Jascha> and the more 'accademic' electroacoustic composers such as
Jascha> Stockhausen. Some albums by NWW (not all) are very much
Jascha> in this vein, anything the Hafler Trio does certainly is,
Jascha> and Zoviet France could be seen as being the
Jascha> electroacoustic equivalent of punk rock, etc... In the
Jascha> case of all of these "bands", there is a very clear
Jascha> musical progression, as well as very distinctive styles.
Jascha> (The albums are also easier to find, since they're
Jascha> distrubuted more like rock albums than 'new music' albums,
Jascha> which is another whole topic by itself...). As well, some
Jascha> of what gets called 'ambient' these days has a very strong
Jascha> influence from the musicque concrete tradition. Any
Jascha> thoughts on this?
Yeah, I have noticed that 'electroacoustic' is being used more and
more as a buzzword in music reviews, where it used to be the English
translation of 'musique concrete'. And I agree that the music is much
easier to find, and I'm very fond of much of this music. (I even
considered being a Hafler Trio completist before they started coming
out with $70 for 10-inch vinyl.)
and "Frankco" == <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> writes:
Frankco> I've noticed that some of the more adventurous techno
Frankco> borders on electro-acoustic music. I don't know if any of
Frankco> you are familiar with the releases on the Berlin-based
Frankco> Basic Channel and Chain Reaction labels, but this stuff
Frankco> is soooo close to electro-acoustic. I completed my Basic
Frankco> Channel collection this weekend, and am now the proud
Frankco> owner of all the 9 12"-es released on this label, each a
Frankco> classic in its own right. If you've ever heard the
Frankco> "Radiance" or 12", you know what I'm talking about. The
Frankco> latest edition of The Wire has a VERY good article on
Frankco> Chain Reaction, although I think Basic Channel has
Frankco> released better stuff (but it is defunct now).
This article was indeed one of the catalysts for my missive. I'd be
very interested in knowing more about the electroacousticity (is that
a word?) of this outfit, as the Wire article is a little vague,
preferring to concentrate more on the Chain Reaction side. The only
Chain Reaction I've heard is Porter Ricks, which falls to my ears more
on the pop side because of their heavy use of drum machines
(regardless of how much they garble it).
Concerning the differences, if they exist, between 'pop'
electroacoustic music like Hafler Trio, NWW, (perhaps Imbalance),
etc., and 'classical' music like Empreintes Digitales, INA-GRM,
etc. (this kind of music is also beastly difficult to describe): I
feel like there is more going on in the classical pieces. The image
of a movie for the ears seems more apt than it does for a Hafler Trio
piece, which seems to create a strange and unearthly atmosphere, but
doesn't have the flow and transitions of a movie (if a Hafler Trio
piece were a movie, it would be like one of those extremely static
Warhol-type movies). Perhaps another way to say this is that the
individual semantic units in classical works are smaller and shorter
than they are with pop ones?
This is of course an extreme overgeneralization, so here's another.
Brian Olenwick recently commented on the tension-release model in
Anthony Braxton's music, and maybe this is another difference. I
don't hear as much tension-release in Hafler Trio or Zoviet France as
I do in Parmegiani or Normandeau or Xenakis (what could be more
tension-release than Legendes of Eer).
Geez, long winded enough?
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:42:02 UT
From: peter_risser@cinfin.com
Subject: Re[2]: Musique Concrete
Two of the best Music Concrete comps I've had the pleasure to hear and own are
the 13 volume Wergo Computer Music Compilations (Available at Forced Exposure)
and Culture Electroniques on Harmonia Mundi, which, as far as I can tell, are
unavailable.
Almost all the Wergo ones are fantastic, except, I think, 11.
I've only heard CE2, 4 and 6, but they are all good.
If anyone knows where these might be available, please let me know.
Once, a long long time ago I went to Schoolkids Music in Ann Arbor and they had
a fantastic selection of CDs along this vein. Unfortunately I was dirt poor.
When I went back three years later, ambient music was the shit and had
completely taken over the "electronic music" section and my precious
experimental/electronic was nowhere to be seen. Alas.
Peter
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:25:04 -0700
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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:07:45 -0500
To: zorn-list@xmission.com
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: Musique Concrete
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flamerik@best.ms.philips.com wrote:
>I totally agree with Caleb Deupree that it is virtually impossible
>to find musique concrete.
It definitely requires some searching, that's for sure ... Mail
order seems to be the best way since you get the best prices
and a much much wider selection than a big chain store like
Tower, Virgin MS or HMV would ever have.
>When I asked at my local "classical music" record store for
>Parmegiani, they took out a catalogue as thick as a phone book,
>but the name Parmegiani wasn't in it, so they couldn't order it.
As Caleb mentioned, you should try Anomalous for Parmegiani as Eric
just got 2 of his INA-GRM CDs and one 2CD in a couple weeks back.
>Since this stuff is so hard to find, I wouldn't really know which
>recordings are essential
Who does? :) I'd appreciate some help in this department as well,
as far as sorting through releases is concerned. Everyone has their
own favorite pieces/composers of course, but I would definitely say
that names like Pierre Schaeffer, Pierre Henry, Luc Ferrari, Michel
Chion, Bernard Parmegiani, Francis Dhomont, Iancu Dumitrescu, Rune
Lindblad, Luigi Nono, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Mauricio Kagel, and
Iannis Xenakis are just a few whose electro-acoustic output should
not be missed ...
>heck, I'm not even sure of some of the stuff I have whether it is
>musique concrete or electro-acoustic music or whatever.
As I understand it, these terms are basically interchangeable. A
dictionary definition of musique concrete will read something like
"recorded montage of natural (acoustic) sounds often electronically
modified" which is basically
saying you've got both electronics and acoustic sounds/instruments in a
composition. Hence the term electro-acoustic. Another synonymous term y=
ou
will often encounter in descriptions of music of this nature is "acousmat=
ic".
>But, here's some of the stuff I happen to like. I'm especially partial
>to the Edition RZ stuff, but these records mostly don't have titles...
Most all of the Edition RZ material that I've heard has been excellent.
Of course, a lot of the original LPs are now on CD format as well.
>Runzelstirn & Gurgelstock - HO (Schimpfluch 25)
>This has to be one of my all-time favorite albums, and probably the one =
that
>changed my perception of music the most, if not entirely. I've heard oth=
er
>stuff by Rudolf Eber/Runzelstirn, but this has to be the best. 69 tracks=
of
>cut-ups, fucked up, blocks of sounds, silence, screams, noise blasts, et=
c.
>It's incoherence makes it coherent again. Totally brilliant sound, amazi=
ng
>conceptual artwork. Unfortunately, the thing is out of print.
I totally agree. This record is amazing.
>Iancu Dumitrescu - Medium III/Cogito (Edition Modern ED.MN 1001)
>I think this could be called electro-acoustic music, but I'm not sure.
>Medium III is a piece for solo bass that will totally blow you away.
>The most profound and scorching double bass sounds ever put to record.
>This should be a reference CD for testing stereo systems. Originally
>released on vinyl on the Edition RZ label, but re-released on CD on
>Edition MN, with a couple of other cool pieces as well.
Dumitrescu is an extremely underappreciated genius when it comes to
way-fucked-up compositions. Check out all his stuff (most of it on
CD now), but especially "Pierres Sacrees" and "Galaxy", both on Edition
Modern of course.
>MB (Maurizio Bianchi)
>I don't know if this qualifies at all. I have only one track of his,
>which is among the best stuff I've ever heard (yeah, I like to exaggerat=
e,
>sue me) The piece is called "MB55" and features one instrument - some
>sort of analogue keyboard, but I don't know which. Long drawn out sounds=
,
>very beautiful. It's from the early 80s.
Don't know that I'd throw MB in with this group. Most of his material
(that I've heard) is heavy on the "old school industrial" side of things,
pretty much power electronics a la early Whitehouse et al.
>Nurse With Wound - Merzbild Schwet
>Featuring the ominous "Futurismo", which sounds like it is designed to
>accompany a dark Blake's 7 episode. Compelling stuff, to say the least.
>Best NWW stuff I've heard, but I admit that I haven't heard all of it.
Stapleton has done some absolutely brilliant stuff in this vein, and I'm
sure most people who've heard his work would agree. I'm guessing he was
at least (somewhat) influenced by some of the musique concrete pioneers.
>I've noticed that some of the more adventurous techno borders on
>electro-acoustic music. I don't know if any of you are familiar with
>the releases on the Berlin-based Basic Channel and Chain Reaction labels=
,
>but this stuff is soooo close to electro-acoustic. I completed my Basic
>Channel collection this weekend, and am now the proud owner of all the 9
>12"-es released on this label, each a classic in its own right. If you'v=
e
>ever heard the "Radiance" or 12", you know what I'm talking about. The
>latest edition of The Wire has a VERY good article on Chain Reaction,
>although I think Basic Channel has released better stuff (but it is
>defunct now).
Not actually electro-acoustic by definition, of course, but bordering on
it in sound in many ways for sure. All the Basic Channel, and most of th=
e
Chain Reaction releases are excellent IMO! I have yet to read the articl=
e,
but the March issue of the Wire is sitting in a pile on my desk ...
>Since I'm such a sucker for this stuff, I'd like to know other
>people's favorite stuff.
Most anything by Pierre Henry ... faves being his "Des Ann=E9es 50" 3CD
(Mantra) with most all of his early material from the 50's (as the title
says), including work with Schaeffer. Also his "Apocalypse de Jean" 2CD
(Mantra) and "Variations Pour Une Porte Et Un Soupir/Voile d'Orph=E9e"
(Harmonia Mundi).
Pierre Schaeffer ... he has two 4CD box sets (with books), which, if you
can afford them are essential. I don't own them, but have heard much of
the material by borrowing from a friend's collection. The best is "l'=A6=
vre
musicale" (INA-GRM) which contains much of his work from 1948 to 1988,
including his pieces with Henry in the 50's.
Luc Ferrari ... "Presque Rein" CD on INA-GRM and "Petite Symphonie" CD
on BVHaast.
Luigi Nono (often overlooked amazing Italian composer) is a favorite with
"Guai Ai Gelidi Mostri", "Fragmente-Stille, An Diotima" and "La Lontanaza
nostalgica ...", all CDs on Montaigne, the same label that Xenakis' class=
ic
8-channel electronic tape piece, "La L=E9gende d'Eer" is on. His "A Carl=
o
Scarpa" LP is also great ... on Edition RZ.
Xenakis ... "Kraanerg" is pure brilliance, as another list member already
attested to. The version on Asphodel from 1996 is highly recommended.
I don't have it, but his "Electro-Acoustic Music" LP (out of print, of
course) is very highly sought after.
Paul Dolden ... "L'ivresse de la Vitesse" 2CD on Empreintes Digitales.
Michel Chion ... "Requiem" CD also on Empreintes Digitales.
The work of a lot of artists on the Metamkine label out of France ...
3" CDs by Chion (same as above), Noetinger, Marchetti, Mion, Ascione
and Jim O'Rourke (!). Fairly cheap, and also fun to collect!!!
Get 'em all kids! :) Many of these artists also have full-length
CDs on Empreintes Digitales/INA-GRM.
I also enjoy much of the work in this genre (used very loosely) by more
"recent" folks like Christoph Heemann, Bernard Gunter, Francisco Lopez,
CM von Hausswolff, Ralf Wehowsky and others that should also be familiar
to a lot of people here.
- -Patrick
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #269
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