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Zorn List Digest        Monday, July 17 2000        Volume 02 : Number 1005



In this issue:
-
       Re: Terry Riley
       ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<
       Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<
       Zorn practicing
       Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<
       Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<
       Re: Zorn practicing
       \\\\\___hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<
       Re: Zorn practicing
       Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<
       Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<
       Re: Zorn practicing
       (more from the new guy) Zorn and Stranvinsky
       Re: (more from the new guy) Zorn and Stranvinsky
       Re: \\\\\___hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<
       Re: (more from the new guy) Zorn and Stranvinsky

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 20:54:49 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Terry Riley

While In C is the essential Riley his new works are often overlooked.
"Chanting The Light Of Foresigh" is by far one of the best compositions in
recent time.  This is a sax Quartet written with just intonation (for more on
Just intonation I highly recommend "Harmonic Experience: Tonal Harmony from
Its Natural Origins to Its Modern Expression" -- W. A. Mathieu).  This piece
combines elements of minimalism, Indian music, jazz, improvisation, and
traditional classical music.  This piece requires four virtuosi and who
better than the Rova Sax Quartet.  It requires the instruments to be played
in such a nontraditional manner without all the squeals.  One movement was
actually written by the group and it amazingly with Riley's vision.  If you
would like to hear music from one of the centuries greatest composers, some
of the most difficult sax repertoire, a fusion of style, what truly playing
in tune is, or just wonderful music, then buy this album.



Aaron Solomon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:46:11 +0200
From: "Rob Allaert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<

Hi Zorn-agains,

Can anyone review these releases?

* Wadada Leo Smith: Reflectativity
* New Klezmer Trio: Short For Something
* Susie Ibarra: Flower after flower
* Peter Epstein: Staring at the Sun

Thanks,

Rob, Belgium <<       .......
http://www.frontstage.com/rob _______________________________


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:19:43 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<

Rob Allaert wrote:

> * Wadada Leo Smith: Reflectativity

I have the original LP on KaBell records (Kabell 1, 1975); I assume the
re-release contains the same material. I've always thought it was an ok
recording, maybe a little on the spare side. The trio is Smith, a
youthful Anthony Davis and Wes Brown on bass. Two side long, live
performances, one dedicated to Ellington, one "to the fishermen of the
world". As I said, the textures are rather spare, Smith darting in and
out, Davis not yet exposing his romantic or gamelan-influenced nature,
though, in fairness, I'd have to give it a re-listen to comment more
particularly.

Brian Olewnick

NP: Fushitsusha, Live 1989 (Anyone have an English translation of the
song titles for this? This is PSFD 2-3.)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:58:20 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn practicing

Hey guys,
(I'm new to the list) I read somewhere that Zorn practiced for eight hours a
day for ten years.  I was wondering if any of you know how he financially
managed to do this.  If you're practicing that much it doesn't leave much
time for another job.  Also, does anyone know of any good biographical
sources on Zorn (I know an actual biography hasn't been written, but are
there any notable articles)?
~Eriedell

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:03:23 -0400
From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<

>> * Wadada Leo Smith: Reflectativity
>
>I have the original LP on KaBell records (Kabell 1, 1975); I assume the
>re-release contains the same material. I've always thought it was an ok


I thought this was a new album with the same title.  Can anybody confirm or
deny?

LT

- -------------------------------------------
Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm

Funhouse
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm

"Where Do You Want to Go Today"
Somewhere you can never take me!



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:24:53 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<

In a message dated 7/16/00 2:07:14 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I thought this was a new album with the same title.  Can anybody confirm=20=
or
deny?  >>

yeah, it looks like a new recording of an old composition, plus some new=20
material. from the Tzadik web site (www.tzadik.com):

"Reflectativity, first released on Leo Smith=E2=80=99s own label in the earl=
y 1970s=20
is one of the most important extended compositions blending improvisation an=
d=20
composition, and one of Leo Smith=E2=80=99s masterpieces. This exciting new=20=
version=20
features the brilliant pianist/composer Anthony Davis (who performed on the=20
original recording) and longtime friend and colleague Malachi Favors=E2=80=
=94the=20
legendary monster bass player from the Art Ensemble of Chicago. Coupled with=
=20
several new compositions, this CD brings together the past and present of=20
creative music=E2=80=99s most continually fascinating composer/performers. "

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:53:58 PDT
From: "robert ludington" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn practicing

<<Hey guys,(I'm new to the list) I read somewhere that Zorn practiced for
eight hours a day for ten years.  I was wondering if any of you know how he
financially managed to do this.  If you're practicing that much it doesn't
leave much time for another job.>>

Well, i'm going to take a hunch that some of this was durring his high
school years, and college(he attended, correct?) where there isn't such a
burden to have financial stability... of course it's jsut a guess, but i
know many musicians with an ealry interest did take advantage of this time
period...

i also have a question that has been nagging my mind for awhile that is
somewhat related, and a good one for the list i suppose, is how can Zorn and
others make a living at this sort of music?  I mean, it's hard enough being
in top-40 cover bands who play paying bar gigs regularlly, but i can't
imaging avant-jazz gigs(before such venues as the Knit/Tonic/etc) providing
much income, and the same goes for being a "studio" musician of this
nature.. so, any working musicians got any tips? I'm very curious because
the more various jobs I work, the more I realize that i'll only be 100%
happy if i can make my living off being an artist.... maybe reply offlist if
this isn't list material? Thanx.

~rob~
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:27:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: \\\\\___hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<

> * New Klezmer Trio: Short For Something
This record got extra reccomendations from bruce at
DMG. I hear that kenny's playing real up front.

> * Susie Ibarra: Flower after flower
Very beautiful compositions, a bit sparse in parts, I
have to put more time into this album.







__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail û Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 01:07:49 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn practicing

[e-mail] wrote:

> (I'm new to the list) I read somewhere that Zorn practiced for eight hours a
> day for ten years.  I was wondering if any of you know how he financially
> managed to do this.  If you're practicing that much it doesn't leave much
> time for another job.  Also, does anyone know of any good biographical
> sources on Zorn (I know an actual biography hasn't been written, but are
> there any notable articles)?

Two questions, one answer.  Take a look at composer William Duckworth's book
'Talking Music,' which features one of the more frank and in-depth interviews
Zorn's ever given regarding his early years, path to success, and, yes, ways
and means of making a living and paying the rent.

That's all I'll say because it's a good book and if you really want to know the
things you've asked about Zorn, you should check it out.  The others covered
include John Cage, Milton Babbitt, La Monte Young, Terry Riley, Philip Glass,
Steve Reich, Laurie Anderson and Glenn Branca... and even that is only a
partial listing.

Welcome to the list.  Have fun.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - (I should be WAY too embarassed to admit this but...) Marillion, "Heart of
Lothian" (demo version), 'Misplaced Childhood' (Sanctuary)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 01:18:20 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<

[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 7/16/00 2:07:14 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << I thought this was a new album with the same title.  Can anybody con=
firm or
> deny?  >>
>
> yeah, it looks like a new recording of an old composition, plus some ne=
w
> material. from the Tzadik web site (www.tzadik.com):
>
> "Reflectativity, first released on Leo Smith=E2=80=99s own label in the=
 early 1970s
> is one of the most important extended compositions blending improvisati=
on and
> composition, and one of Leo Smith=E2=80=99s masterpieces. This exciting=
 new version
> features the brilliant pianist/composer Anthony Davis (who performed on=
 the
> original recording) and longtime friend and colleague Malachi Favors=E2=
=80=94the
> legendary monster bass player from the Art Ensemble of Chicago. Coupled=
 with
> several new compositions, this CD brings together the past and present =
of
> creative music=E2=80=99s most continually fascinating composer/performe=
rs. "

Lang and Jon are correct; it's a new version of "Reflectivity" plus three=
 new
pieces, "Blue Flag," "Fisherman T Wmukl-D" and "Hanabishi."  It was recor=
ded
during the same January 2000 recording sessions that produced the other r=
ecent
Smith disc on Tzadik, 'Golden Quartet' (which included Jack DeJohnette on=
 drums
and is a pretty damned exceptional free jazz session).  I've got the new =
one
sitting here but haven't put it on yet - which should probably make me ev=
en more
embarassed to be listening to neo-prog rock tonight... ;-)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Marillion, "Passing Strangers" (demo version), 'Misplaced Childhood'
(Sanctuary)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 01:40:54 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<

Rob Allaert wrote:

> * Wadada Leo Smith: Reflectativity
> * New Klezmer Trio: Short For Something
> * Susie Ibarra: Flower after flower

Oddly, I got all three of these last Friday but haven't had a chance to
listen.

> * Peter Epstein: Staring at the Sun

Truly fine young band (saxophonist Epstein plus Jamie Saft on accordion,
Chris Dahlgren on bass and Jim Black on drums), clever writing, heated
playing, and exceptionally fine recorded sound.  I don't think I've ever
heard as much fine detail in Jim Black's textures.  Not especially
"out," but a really good solid postmodern jazz date that swings in lotsa
different meters.  Enthusiastically recommended.  They've got a newer
disc on the same label. 'The Invisible,' and everything I've just said
holds for that one too, with the addition of Saft's piano and Farfisa
organ.

I'll have to get back to you on the others...  now, Jamie Saft's new one
on Tzadik... THAT's some strange stuff.  When I first played that one I
was almost positive that there had been a mastering error and the wrong
album had been stamped (branded? burned?) into the disc.  Turned out not
to be the case...  But I'll leave that one for another time after a few
more spins.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - nada at the moment...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:45:17 +0200
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn practicing

[e-mail] wrote:
>><<Hey guys,(I'm new to the list) I read
>> somewhere that Zorn practiced for
>>eight hours a day for ten years.
>> If you're practicing that much it doesn't
>>leave much time for another job.>>
well - every single day has 24 hours, hasn't it? so even if you did
practice 10 hours, you'd still have 14 left for another job... ;-)

i don't know how zorn managed to do this, but another respected artist i
have had the pleasure of studying with, terry bozzio (former frank zappa
drummer), told me that because he was the son of poor immigrants, he
never had money to go out with his friends or do anything much after
school was over. so he spent most of his spare time practicing the
drums. he started off with about two hours in the morning before (!)
going to school, then again after lunch, and continued right after
coming back home in the afternoon. though, if i remember correctly, he
"only" practiced around eight hours...

robert ludington wrote:
>>i also have a question that has been nagging
>> my mind for awhile that is
>>somewhat related, and a good one for the list
>>i suppose, is how can Zorn and
>>others make a living at this sort of music?
>>i can't
>>imaging avant-jazz gigs(before such venues as
>>the Knit/Tonic/etc) providing
>>much income, and the same goes for being a
i think that a lot of those artists make their "main" money over here in
europe. i've read several interviews in which one or the other of them
said that they couldn't possibly survive doing this kind of music if it
wasn't for the european market. guys like zorn do really get paid very
good money over here. even way back in 1992 "naked city" were paid more
than $ 10000 per gig. (which left about $ 1666.66 per person per gig.) i
can't remember though if that was including or excluding travel/hotel
costs.

Steve Smith wrote:
>>NP - (I should be WAY too embarassed
>>to admit this but...) Marillion, "Heart of
>>Lothian" (demo version), 'Misplaced
>> Childhood' (Sanctuary)
don't worry steve! because i have listened to iron maiden's "piece of
mind" and "somewhere in time" all weekend... ;-)

patRice


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:37:00 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (more from the new guy) Zorn and Stranvinsky

While I was in Montreal for the jazz fest (where Masada played an absoloutely
mind-blowing set friday night) I came across a book in the Indigo book store
called Future Jazz--unfortunatley, I forget who the author is.  It had an
interveiw and section on zorn.  This suprised me since nowhere online have I
seen a reference to this book as a source for Zorn info.  Anyway,  Zorn said
that he wasn't introduced to jazz until the age of twenty while he was at
college in St. Louis.  For most of his teen years he listened to early
twentieth century composers--Stravinsky being his favorite.  I recently just
got Black Box (double disc with Torture Garden and Leng T'che).  For those
who don't know--these two albums were originally banned from most US stores
because of explicitly graphic cover art.  So, I was thinking, "You know, this
really isn't that different from what Stravinsky did with Rite of Spring."
What made RoS controversial wasn't so much the music as the subject matter
and dance that accompanied it (which had nudity and virgin
sacrifice--controversial for early 20th century).  What makes the naked city
stuff controversial isn't so much the music--which may seem controversial to
those of us in on the jazz scene, but for the rest of the public it's just
some strange kind of punk/hardcore noise--but the album art, the visual
images that accompany Naked City in the same way that the
nude-virgin-sacrifice accompanied RoS.  So, did Zorn intensionally borrow
this trick of pairing music with shocking visuals from Stravisnky to make the
Naked City stuff controversial?  Or am I looking to hard for a connection
here--what do you guys think?

Also, my roomate who is still out on whether or not he likes Zorn, but
curious none the less was offended by the torture photographs in the Leng
T'che part of Black Box.  We differed in opinion here.  The torture photos
certainly didn't make me feel good, but i don't necessarily think that it's
morally wrong for Zorn to include them with the album--I think.  The question
that popped in my head, and that Zorn is certainly challenging is "Is Art
Moral?"  I'm at a loss for what I think; so, I was wondering if you all have
anything to say.

~Eriedell

PS  I apologize for the long length here--also, if any of this has been
previously discussed, just direct me to the back issue and i'll leave you all
alone.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:08:40 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (more from the new guy) Zorn and Stranvinsky

I think it's a pretty common thing among artists to stretch the boundaries
and sometimes aim for controversy, I don't think you can say that
Stravinsky is what inspired Zorn to choose particular cover art for a cd.

There was recently a thread on cover art, no idea when exactly though. It
was about the Taboo & Exile artwork, and stretched out to include Naked
City and Painkiller albums. I would say if someone is offended by the Leng
Tche artwork, either they have a really weak stomach, or they are assuming
something about Zorn's intention. I mean, remember that's what the piece is
about, so is probably the most appropriate image...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:40:44 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: \\\\\___hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<<

On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:27:00 -0700 (PDT)  jason tors wrote:
>
> > * New Klezmer Trio: Short For Something
> This record got extra reccomendations from bruce at
> DMG. I hear that kenny's playing real up front.

But doesn't Bruce always add extra recommendations :-)?

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:57:41 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (more from the new guy) Zorn and Stranvinsky

On Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:37:00 EDT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> While I was in Montreal for the jazz fest (where Masada played an absoloutely
> mind-blowing set friday night) I came across a book in the Indigo book store
> called Future Jazz--unfortunatley, I forget who the author is.  It had an

I guess it is Howard Mandel's book. I did not know that it contains a section
on Zorn.

> interveiw and section on zorn.  This suprised me since nowhere online have I
> seen a reference to this book as a source for Zorn info.  Anyway,  Zorn said
> that he wasn't introduced to jazz until the age of twenty while he was at
> college in St. Louis.  For most of his teen years he listened to early
> twentieth century composers--Stravinsky being his favorite.  I recently just
> got Black Box (double disc with Torture Garden and Leng T'che).  For those
> who don't know--these two albums were originally banned from most US stores

In fact they were not banned, but Zorn got tired of the controversy surrounding
them and decided to remove them.

> nude-virgin-sacrifice accompanied RoS.  So, did Zorn intensionally borrow
> this trick of pairing music with shocking visuals from Stravisnky to make the
> Naked City stuff controversial?  Or am I looking to hard for a connection
> here--what do you guys think?

I think that you are looking too hard :-). There are zillions of similar cases,
starting before Stravinsky, I am sure (at least many after).

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #1005
********************************


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