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From:     John Zorn List
Sent:     Tuesday, November 04, 1997 4:21 PM
To:     [e-mail]
Subject:     John Zorn List V2 #140


John Zorn List        Tuesday, November 4 1997        Volume 02 : Number 140




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Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:06:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: CBC radio (Haino Keiji)

In a message dated 11/4/97 12:37:56 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<I recorded the Haino Fushitsusha show last Sunday on Radio-Canada fm on the
FRENCH network (they present a lot of Victo shows).>>

I was also at this show and it was pretty amazing; in fact, the highlight of
the 1996 Victoriaville festival, if you ask me. I'm pretty sure that Victo
will be issuing it on CD in the near future so there's no need to stress if
you can't get a copy of this tape.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:09:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Toby Dodds <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zony Mash at Knit w/Zorn & Ribot (fwd)

I wanted to make a point of letting you know about this upcoming show.

Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash@ The Knitting Factory, NYC  11/7/97
 w/Briggan Krauss (1st set), John Zorn and Marc Ribot (2nd Set)..

This will be a very special evening with several reunions for Wayne.  Briggan
Krauss is an amazing alto who played in Pigpen (Wayne's last band, before
the Mash), and John Zorn is this completely out composer who Wayne worked with
in Naked City ;)  I know from talking to Wayne that they've worked out some
Naked City material for this show!!!  To the best of my knowledge this
will be the first time Zorn and Horvitz have shared a stage since the final
Naked City shows in 1993..

ZONY MASH IS TAPER FRIENDLY
- -this is significant only in that we know Zorn is not.  Regardless, tapers
bring your gear and tape the show, if you have any problems ask for
permission from the band.  I've briefed Wayne on the positive affects of
tape trading etc.  If you tape though you should send the band a copy.

ENJOY!
Toby

www.zonymash.com
[e-mail]



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Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:09:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Toby Dodds <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zony Mash at Knit w/Zorn & Ribot (fwd)

I wanted to make a point of letting you know about this upcoming show.

Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash@ The Knitting Factory, NYC  11/7/97
 w/Briggan Krauss (1st set), John Zorn and Marc Ribot (2nd Set)..

This will be a very special evening with several reunions for Wayne.  Briggan
Krauss is an amazing alto who played in Pigpen (Wayne's last band, before
the Mash), and John Zorn is this completely out composer who Wayne worked with
in Naked City ;)  I know from talking to Wayne that they've worked out some
Naked City material for this show!!!  To the best of my knowledge this
will be the first time Zorn and Horvitz have shared a stage since the final
Naked City shows in 1993..

ZONY MASH IS TAPER FRIENDLY
- -this is significant only in that we know Zorn is not.  Regardless, tapers
bring your gear and tape the show, if you have any problems ask for
permission from the band.  I've briefed Wayne on the positive affects of
tape trading etc.  If you tape though you should send the band a copy.

ENJOY!
Toby

www.zonymash.com
[e-mail]



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Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 11:51:56 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: all talk, no info here

A main concern with some of the musicians I heard from was that Zorn was
playing so much, it seemed like he wasn't giving anybody else a chance.
That seems kind of exaggerated to me, but I wonder if Zorn at the KF
several times a month is better than several artists in his place once a
month each.  I can't believe I missed the 'last' Masada shows, but my
friend bootlegged a Liebman show (he's taking lessons, don't worry about
the moral conflict) that was amazing; I'll take what I can get either way,
I suppose.


On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, James Douglas Knox wrote:
>
> > Err, well; methinks its healthy there's some discussion of this
> > subject. Hearing the re-issue of the Cynical Hysterie Hour - the real
> > revelation was not how great this disc sounds, but how slight so much of
> > Zorn's most recent work sounds in comparison. I mean; he's releasing so
> > much stuff onto the market, and a lot of it is (for me, personally)
> > totally redundant. I certainly didn't used to feel this way about his
> > work.
>
> I'm not sure which records you think are redundant.  If you're talking
> about Masada 1-256 (or whatever they're up to this week), I've defended
> the volume of this stuff before, so I won't repeat myself.
>
>      In any case, I doubt that the dropoff in quality you're talking about
> has much to do with Zorn's overproduction.  So far as I can tell, the
> difference in Zorn's output now and his output in the 80's is that a
> larger percentage of it's documented now.  Check liner notes and you'll
> find references to a number of Zorn compositions that went totally
> unrecorded in the 80's. So far as I can tell, he's not actually more
> prolific than he used to be.
>
>      That being said, I do think _Kristallnacht_ is the most
> recent album he's put out that stands with his very best work.  But I also
> think his recorded output in the last few years has been, on average,
> stronger than his early 90's work.
>
>      This kind of pattern seems fairly common among avant-gardists who
> reach a degree of fame.  Anthony Braxton, Steve Lacy, and Paul Bley leap
> to mind as similarly prolific musicians.  I suspect one reason for this is
> that individual records by these artists don't sell in the quantities that
> more mainstream records do.  Selling a lot of records to a few people
> helps make up the difference in income.
>
>      Another reason, of course, is the understandable desire of artists to
> document their work.  (Heck, my improv group religiously archives every
> rehearsal tape, and we have fewer fans than band members!)  How much of
> that work is worth preserving for posterity is another question.  It's too
> early for me to get the critical distance to decide whether Zorn is Duke
> Ellington, Chet Baker, or Stan Kenton in this sense.
>
>      I understand Braxton has spoken disparagingly of "the fallacy of the
> good night".  If I understand the phrase correctly, his point is that
> musicians don't really work by producing single masterworks/performances,
> but by a sort of continuous artistic development; it's a fallacy to try to
> understand an artist's work in terms of the former.  While it would be
> crazy to try to listen to many musicians this way, I think this is how I
> approach many of my favorite musicians (Zorn, Miles, Ornette, Eno).
> Although masterworks are welcome, I'm not especially looking for them.
> I'm just fascinated watching a talented musician develop over time.
> Perhaps this is why I'm not bothered by possible overproduction.
>
>      Sorry,  That rant lasted much longer than I'd meant it to.
>
> Chris Hamilton
>
>
> -
>
>


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Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 18:43:46 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: all talk, no info here

[e-mail] wrote:

> A main concern with some of the musicians I heard from was that Zorn
> was
> playing so much, it seemed like he wasn't giving anybody else a
> chance.

I don't think Zorn is responsible for that phenomenon, if you follow my
meaning.  If you could get a few hundred people to turn up for Zorn or
50-60 to show up for (fill-in-the-blank), who would you be more likely
to book?  It ain't necessarily right, but it's the truth.

I'm still amazed to have seen a standing room only crowd for Derek
Bailey last Monday night.  Much bigger crowd than Tuesday or Thursday.
Do you think it had something to do with the fact that Monday was the
only night Zorn played practically all night, whereas he played somewhat
less on Tuesday, not at all on Thursday?  Bailey was mentioned today in
the NYTimes (in a nice review of his and John Fahey's recent shows here
in NY) as playing tonight with Andy Statman, Tony Tritchka and Gregg
Bendian.  He's not, in point of fact, but despite the provocative lineup
I don't imagine that there would have been a standing room only crowd at
that one, either.

Zorn's cult of personality does lead to more bookings, no doubt about
it.  He's back this Saturday with Medeski and Ribot, and shows up many
times in the new Knit calendar, including another two night Bacharach
festival in late December.  But to think that he's deliberately trying
to crowd out other worthy musicians would seem to be antithetical to his
having established two separate recording labels to promote same.  And I
do think most artists know where responsibility actually lies - at the
clubs doing the bookings.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


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Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 16:17:26 -0800
From: "Schwitterz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: all talk, no info here

Bailey was mentioned today in
>the NYTimes (in a nice review of his and John Fahey's recent shows here
>in NY) as playing tonight with Andy Statman, Tony Tritchka and Gregg
>Bendian.
>
>Steve Smith
>[e-mail]

Saw Bendian's Interzone last night at Alligator Lounge. Watching Bendian
(looking like Bob Sagat [sp?]) sparring with Dave Fiucznski (looking like
Cro-Magnon Man) was a delight. When they did unison lines, it was stunning
vituosity. The group improvisation was especially empathic as well. I'm not
sure I'd care for DF in other contexts, but with Interzone he was sublime.

sZ


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End of John Zorn List V2 #140
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