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1997-01-27
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From: "Jason T. Swanson" <swanson@shore.intercom.net>
Subject: [OUTDOORS] Utah vacation
Date: 13 Jan 1997 21:42:59 -0500
My family and I are planning on going to Utah for a vacation this June.
Does anyone have any favorite camping, hiking, or biking sites they would
like to share with us?
---Jason
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Kenison <dkenison@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Utah vacation
Date: 13 Jan 1997 20:12:04 -0700 (MST)
On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Jason T. Swanson wrote:
> My family and I are planning on going to Utah for a vacation this June.
> Does anyone have any favorite camping, hiking, or biking sites they would
> like to share with us?
Jason - tell us more about what you're interested in. Family camping in
established campgrounds? Backcountry hiking in primitive wilderness?
Short hikes or long, extended backpack trips? Advanced mountain biking or
easier trails?
And how much time will you have? The options are almost unlimited in
Utah!
David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com
My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/
Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Roger Jenkins" <mcdonaldjenkins@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [OUTDOORS] Utah vacation
Date: 14 Jan 1997 12:21:45 UT
Jason, you did not specify how old or strong your family is, but I would
recommend a "sampler" involving both the classic spots, such as the Zion
Canyon narrows (easy day hike up river and back when the water is low), and
some walks in Arches, plus some of the hidden spots in some of the more remote
sections, such as a hike into Bullet Canyon ( a tributary of Grand Gulch on
Cedar Mesa), or into Harris Wash, a tributary of the Escalante River.
Roger Jenkins
owner-utahoutdoors@xmission.com on behalf of Jason T. Swanson wrote:
>My family and I are planning on going to Utah for a vacation this June.
>Does anyone have any favorite camping, hiking, or biking sites they would
>like to share with us?
>
>---Jason
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Eric Cytrynbaum <eric@math.utah.edu>
Subject: [OUTDOORS] Re: Wasatch backcountry skking
Date: 14 Jan 1997 17:12:08 -0700 (MST)
I'm eager to get some information on the backcountry skiing around SLC
(just moved out here in September). If anyone has any good tips on where
I can find areas to get some turns without having to deal with avalanche
danger (haven't bought a beacon yet), I would greatly appreciate the
advice. I'm "freeheel" so slightly longer approaches are not a problem.
Looking forward to any tips.
Eric Cytrynbaum
<eric@math.utah.edu>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jason T. Swanson" <swanson@shore.intercom.net>
Subject: [OUTDOORS] Utah vacation
Date: 14 Jan 1997 22:04:01 -0500
My family and I are planning on going to Utah for a vacation this June.
Does anyone have any favorite camping, hiking, or biking sites they would
like to share with us?
Well to expand on what I wrote before, I am 25 and my wife 24. We have a
one year old boy, so our hiking, and other activities will be limited. My
brother and his wife will also be joining us they live in Orem. I guess we
are looking for nice short hikes and other activities that do not require
us leaving the kid with relatives. I want to camp for a couple of days,
also. Thanks a ton!!
---Jason
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Kenison <dkenison@xmission.com>
Subject: [OUTDOORS] Group hiking
Date: 16 Jan 1997 14:17:53 -0700 (MST)
I received a request for some information about organized group hiking. A
young person will be coming from Belgium and would like to spend several
weeks with other young people in hiking and backpacking trips in national
parks and forests. It would be in the April/May/June timeframe.
Anyone know of clubs or other groups that plan activities, or even
professional outfitters that are reliable and reasonable?
David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com
My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/
Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Terri Smith PlanB John Horn <planb@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Group hiking
Date: 16 Jan 1997 15:53:10 -0700 (MST)
>
> I received a request for some information about organized group hiking. A
> young person will be coming from Belgium and would like to spend several
> weeks with other young people in hiking and backpacking trips in national
> parks and forests. It would be in the April/May/June timeframe.
>
> Anyone know of clubs or other groups that plan activities, or even
> professional outfitters that are reliable and reasonable?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com
> My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/
> Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors
How about the Wasatch Mountain Club? A great group
with many different types, lengths and difficulty-levels
of hikes. Their phone number is 363-7150.
Also, the local Sierra chapters organize outings on a
monthly basis. Their number is 467-9297. I don't know
if they make you join first or not.
So what is the definition of "young"? Just wondering in
this day of political-correctness. ;-)
Ha, May a month of warmth. It seems so very far away
Terri
planb@xmission.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Gretchen L. Liff" <Liff@stl-online.net>
Subject: RE: [OUTDOORS] Utah vacation
Date: 20 Jan 1997 19:53:20 CST
At 12:21 PM 1/14/97 UT, you wrote:
>Jason, you did not specify how old or strong your family is, but I would
>recommend a "sampler" involving both the classic spots, such as the Zion
>Canyon narrows (easy day hike up river and back when the water is low), and
>some walks in Arches, plus some of the hidden spots in some of the more remote
>sections, such as a hike into Bullet Canyon ( a tributary of Grand Gulch on
>Cedar Mesa), or into Harris Wash, a tributary of the Escalante River.
>
>Roger Jenkins
>
>
>owner-utahoutdoors@xmission.com on behalf of Jason T. Swanson wrote:
>>My family and I are planning on going to Utah for a vacation this June.
>>Does anyone have any favorite camping, hiking, or biking sites they would
>>like to share with us?
>>
>>---Jason
>>
>Jason
Roger is right the Zion narrows is a great easy hike. Try Negro Bill
Canyon, off Hwy 128 out of Moab, Utah. There are great hikes in Arches NP.
and canyonlands -- Mesa arch hike is easy and has great views.
Gretchen Liff
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Gretchen L. Liff" <Liff@stl-online.net>
Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Utah vacation
Date: 20 Jan 1997 20:00:24 CST
At 10:04 PM 1/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>My family and I are planning on going to Utah for a vacation this June.
>Does anyone have any favorite camping, hiking, or biking sites they would
>like to share with us?
>
>Well to expand on what I wrote before, I am 25 and my wife 24. We have a
>one year old boy, so our hiking, and other activities will be limited. My
>brother and his wife will also be joining us they live in Orem. I guess we
>are looking for nice short hikes and other activities that do not require
>us leaving the kid with relatives. I want to camp for a couple of days,
>also. Thanks a ton!!
>
>---Jason
>Jason,
As I suggested before Mesa Arch in Canyonlands is great and easy. Also drive
the LaSal Mountian loop out of Moab. That is great. Take a short trip to Oowah
lake for a picnic. Take the baby to Sand dune arch in Arches NP a great
place for kids to play in the sand, and it is shaded and cool midday. Also
walk Park
Avenue from the Courthouse parking lot there isn't much climbing and you can
do it almost up to the top and then return hike back to your car. Visit
Capital Reef NP if you have time. The Grand Wash is a great easy hike and
Capital Reef is beautiful but not overused and there are no crowds. There is
a historic town in the park (Fruita) it is neat with an old one room school
house.
Have a great time... Gretchen Liff, Castle Valley Utah
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Gretchen L. Liff" <Liff@stl-online.net>
Date: 20 Jan 1997 20:35:33 CST
Has anyone driven the Burr Trail ? Would appreciate info, we will be back in
the area May '97. We love to hike, but as we become more chronologically
challenged we find that some of our hikes need to be taken by Jeep.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Allen Gelman <gelman@cheta.net>
Subject: [OUTDOORS] Mike's intro
Date: 20 Jan 1997 23:38:11 -0500
Hello Jason, Roger, Gretchen, and everyone else. My name is Michael
Gelman, and I'm a new guy here.
I have never been to Utah, and although I would love to go there, I
really never thought about it. I don't know anyone there. This is the
only camping-related mailing list I could find using www.liszt.com.
So here is what I would really like to know:
1) Do you only write about about Utah camping, as in the list's
description?
2) If so, could someone please let me know of any other camping
mailing lists -- preferably something that is not centered on a
particular region?
I live in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Western North Carolina. If anyone
would like to know anything about this area, I'll tell you what I know
(shouldn't take too long!)
Thanks in advance!
Mike
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Theodore C. Crusberg" <crusberg@WPI.EDU>
Subject: [OUTDOORS] The Burr Trail
Date: 21 Jan 1997 09:08:01 -0500 (EST)
I just did the John Atlantic Burr Trail last May. We had just hiked down
into the Escalante at Egypte but it was so hot we almost died (well, we
thought we were going to anyway). The trail flies were the real reason we
got out of there. Be forewarned if you try it in Springtime. However, we
crossed what I think they call the Devil's Backbone between Escalante and
Boulder and then asked at the info booth at Boulder and was told the John
Atlantic Burr Trail was something else. It was indeed! I recommend the
trip any day as long as the temp is under 105 F. The road is paved most
of the way but then as you enter Capitol Reef NP goes to gravel with some
stretches of washboard. But the views are sensational. YOu have to
negotiate down a tousand or so vertical in switchbacks (no big deal though
- just take it slow) as you come into the NP. The you have a choice of
returning north to the park HQ (lots of washboard) or head south past the
Charles Overlook and the Narrows (hike down into it and stay overnight at
the mouth of the Narrows under the huge overhanging like arch! Then trek
through the Narrows (prepare to swim and watch out - for the Beavers -
really there was a beaver there in the perennial stream - and fish too).
And return up throught the divide. Rest with a nap and you can return by
nightfall. We're in our 50s and we did it in a day. Then proceed south
to Lake Powell - take the ferry - then proceed to other sites like Natural
Bridges NM. The John Atlantic Burr Trail is really a thrill and worth the
ride anytime you can get down that way. And we have to go a long way to
get there.
Ted Crusberg/Worcester MA
On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Gretchen L. Liff wrote:
> Has anyone driven the Burr Trail ? Would appreciate info, we will be back in
> the area May '97. We love to hike, but as we become more chronologically
> challenged we find that some of our hikes need to be taken by Jeep.
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard Trevallee <trev@northlink.com>
Subject: [OUTDOORS] Re:
Date: 21 Jan 1997 10:28:01 -0700
Gretchen L. Liff wrote:
>
> Has anyone driven the Burr Trail ? Would appreciate info, we will be back in
> the area May '97. We love to hike, but as we become more chronologically
> challenged we find that some of our hikes need to be taken by Jeep.
At the Eastern end ofthe Burr trail there are two excellent hikes. The
Upper and Lower Muley Twist Canyons. Upper Muley twist can be driven
forabout 2 miles to a parking area with 4WD. From there you have several
options. Up to Strike Overlook, very easy combine with going up
canyon. Then upcanyon a couple of miles before the narrows start. A
loop can be made covering the narrows and then climbing the ridge for
the return.
I've done it several times and its fairly easy. Read one of the many
hiking guide for that hike for details. Like miles and exposure
information.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jason Chisholm <jasonch@BGNet.bgsu.edu>
Subject: RE: [OUTDOORS] Utah vacation
Date: 21 Jan 1997 12:53:54 -0500 (EST)
How do I delete my email address from subscriber's list?
Thanks.
Jason Chisholm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Kenison <dkenison@xmission.com>
Subject: RE: [OUTDOORS] Utah vacation
Date: 21 Jan 1997 14:07:20 -0700 (MST)
On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Jason Chisholm wrote:
> How do I delete my email address from subscriber's list?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jason Chisholm
Similar to the way you joined; send a message to "majordomo@xmission.com"
with the words "unsubscribe utahoutdoors" in the message.
David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com
My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/
Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Allen Gelman <gelman@cheta.net>
Subject: [OUTDOORS] Mike's 2nd intro
Date: 22 Jan 1997 10:50:28 -0500
One LAST time . . . .
No one has answered or even acknowledged my post, either on the list or
privately, so I will ask one more time. Once again, I'm sorry and I
realize that my questions are outside of the realm of this list's topic.
(I'm very good at finding information on the net, and I could not find
any other camping-related list. Also, I am not seeking to market or
profit by way of this info. I just love to camp, and since I don't get
to do it as often as I would like, I figure I can read/write about it.)
So here is what I would really like to know:
1) Do you only write about about Utah camping, as in the list's
description?
2) If so, could someone please let me know of any other camping
mailing lists -- preferably something that is not centered on a
particular region?
In return for someone being kind enough to help me out here, I will
share my valuable secret of how to positively prevent your eggs from
breaking on a camping trip. (Break them before you leave your house.)
Mike
__ __
/ /\ /\ \
/ / \ / \ \
/ / /\ \ Michael A. Gelman http://www.cheta.net/gelman / /\ \ \
/ / /\ \ \ market research & advertising design, / / /\ \ \
/ /_/__\ \ \ computer graphics, photography, / / /__\_\ \
/________\ \ \ & creative communication / / /________\
\___________\/ \/___________/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Kenison <dkenison@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Mike's 2nd intro
Date: 22 Jan 1997 10:51:48 -0700 (MST)
On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Michael Allen Gelman wrote:
> So here is what I would really like to know:
> 1) Do you only write about about Utah camping, as in the list's
> description?
Yes, our focus is on Utah, but not just camping - all aspects of the
outdoor recreational life here. We do stray over state borders now and
then, but not very far... :-)
> 2) If so, could someone please let me know of any other camping
> mailing lists -- preferably something that is not centered on a
> particular region?
You can try the usenet groups such as rec.backcountry - that will keep you
busy for as long as you're willing to devote to it!
David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com
My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/
Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mike Jones <jones@cs.byu.edu>
Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Mike's 2nd intro
Date: 23 Jan 1997 08:54:17 -0700
I sent the guy a reply exactly like yours (exact same content!) about 10
minutes before I got yours. Good to know we are on the same wavelength.
cheers,
mik.e
--
Mike Jones Laboratory for Applied Logic
jones@lal.cs.byu.edu Brigham Young University
<URL:http://lal.cs.byu.edu/people/jones.html>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Kenison <dkenison@xmission.com>
Subject: [OUTDOORS] Natural Arches
Date: 23 Jan 1997 09:55:54 -0700 (MST)
I was recently sent info about a webpage maintained by the "Natural Arch
and Bridge Society" (NABS). They have some marvelous photos and
descriptions of sites that many people on this list will be familiar with.
See their page at: http://www.CyberSeek.com/org/NABS/
I'm going to try to clean up and expand the UtahOutdoors page in the next
few weeks. Any suggestions or additional info you'd like to share will be
much appreciated! See http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/outd/
David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com
My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/
Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mike Jones <jones@cs.byu.edu>
Subject: [OUTDOORS] characterizing the san raphael swell.
Date: 27 Jan 1997 16:39:20 -0700
So I went down to the san raphael swell again to hike another canyon. This
time though, the swell defeated us. We got lost and missed our objective and
ended up bailing to goblin valley state park. The swell is a harsh place.
There's no signs. No rangers. No people. Few landmarks. The swell doesn't
want to be your friend. It doesn't welcome visitors and it has no tolerance
for novices.
But despite the anti-social behavior of the san raphael swell (being a novice
to canyoneering, I find the swell has little tolerance for me), its an amazing
place. In both trips to the swell, I have seen exactly zero people in 2 days
of hiking. But I've experienced hiking that rivals (or even blows away) whats
in the relatively tame arches or zion NP.
Has anyone else out there experienced the swell? If so, how would you
characterize it?
humbled but continualy allured by the swell,
mike.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Brandt-Erichsen <davidbe@azstarnet.com>
Subject: [OUTDOORS] Re: characterizing the san raphael swell.
Date: 27 Jan 1997 18:56:55 -0700
At 04:39 PM 1/27/97 -0700, mike wrote:
>Has anyone else out there experienced the swell? If so, how would you
>characterize it?
The San Rafael Swell can only be characterized as a swell place! Actually,
you did a good job of characterizing it.
Here are some references on the area:
Allen, Steve. Canyoneering the San Rafael Swell. University of Utah Press,
Salt Lake City, 1992). The most thorough book on the area.
Bromka, Gregg. Mountain Biking Utah's Canyon and Plateau Country. Off-Road
Publications (1590 S. 1400 E., Salt Lake City, UT 84105), 1992. One-third
of this book is on the Swell.
Kelsey, Michael. Hiking and Exploring Utah's San Rafael Swell (Second
Edition), Kelsey Publishing, Provo, Utah, 1990.
McClenahan, Owen. Utah's Scenic San Rafael Swell. Self-published (Box 892,
Castle Dale, UT 84513), 1986. Mostly a 4WD guide.
"The San Rafael Swell." Three-part article giving photos, locations, and
directions to 35 natural arches in the Swell, including a 160-foot recent
find. In SPAN, the newsletter of the Natural Arch and Bridge Society (5100
N. Moonstone Dr., Tucson, AZ 85750), April 1995, October 1995, January 1996.
Showalter, Rick. Recreation Map of the San Rafael Swell and San Rafael
Desert. Canyon Country Publications (P.O. Box 963, Moab, UT 84532), 1995.
Useful for road and 4WD navigation but not detailed enough for hiking.
Trails Illustrated announced a forthcoming map of the Swell a couple of
years ago but the project is still on indefinite hold.