ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/utah-sailing/archive/utah-sailing.200004

Internet Message Format | 2000-04-28 | 184KB

From: "Gretha" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Need Advice - Boat Purchase
Date: 01 Apr 2000 11:26:34 -0700

Andrew
Check out http://www.classifieds2000.com/
I like it I have found a couple of boats there.

Gretha


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From: William McManus <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Need Advice - Boat Purchase
Date: 01 Apr 2000 11:42:01 -0700

To Andrew and all the rest moving up to larger boats:

Having gone through this process of moving from a small sailboat (a Hobie
16) to larger ones(Catalina 25, and Spray 22), I learned several things.
First, decide what type of sailing that you will be doing, leisurely day
sailing, racing, or tripping (several days on board). Each type of sailing
has different needs and demands. I realize that if you have not had a larger
boat before and this may be hard to know, but it will determine how
satisfied you are with your new boat, will influence how much you use it,
and for how long you will keep it.  For day sailing you need a large cockpit
and only a small cabin (large enough for a small galley and head).  For
racing you need one of the highly rated types.  Keep in mind that the fun
boats to race are going to give you a rougher ride when the wind pipes up,
and it will when sailing in the mountain west.  If you have small children
or a skittish significant other, this may be great fun for you but not for
them. If you are looking for a what I called earlier a tripping boat, that
is a stable boat that the group (be it your family or friends) can be
comfortable and safe on, look at the heavier displacement boats in the
coastal cruising or offshore range.  If trailering is desired your choices
in these boats is somewhat limited. If you look at the older boats you
should find something, however.  Check the internet.  Designers, such as
Bruce Bingham, have designed several stout small sailboats. Now this is
purely my opinion, and will rile up the MacGregor 26 owners out there, but I
do not like MacGregor sailboats, atleast the newer ones, they are
inexpensively made, tender, and have a propensity to parts failure.  There
are a lot of them available, because so many people get tired of them and
move on to a better boat.  I think that you would be better served to look
at older boats, like Columbia's, and Ranger's, rather than settle for a
MacGregor 26.


Bill McManus
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 8:57 PM


Hello!

I read your post about leads on california boats - I'm in the market for a
20-25 foot boat - I'm a novice with the larger boats, but have uncounted
hours in my Sunfish!  I'm just redy for something I can stand up on!  I
looked at a 1981 25' Macgregor today - asking price is $6250.  It's in
pretty
good shape with trailer, outboard, etc all well cared for and lots of recent

refurbishments.  What do you think?  Would this be a good boat to start
with?
 I would be willing to drive to CA for the right boat - do you have any
suggestions?

Thanks so much,
Andrew Mylander

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: RE: (utah-sailing) Need Advice - Boat Purchase
Date: 01 Apr 2000 22:45:28 EST

Here, here on the MacGregor comments.  You can do much better for basically
the same price.  MacGregor's will never have a great resale and remember that
when you decide to move up to that 30 footer.

LDJ!

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From: Robert McClane <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Need Advice - Boat Purchase
Date: 03 Apr 2000 09:21:27 -0600

Andrew -

One good option for you is to subscribe to something like Santana, a small
monthly sailing mag. from S. Ca.  It is about 90% "for sale" adds and is an
excellent way to research the going prices for sail boats of all kinds.  It
is ~$15/year to have it mailed to you (I think it is freely avail. at most
S. Ca. marinas - but you pay a little to have home delivery).  We used it
to shop for and eventually buy our C-22 Blue Moon, and we still read the
adds for fun (warning - you will always be looking!).  You will get much
more selection in a major boating area than here, and you can use it to
negotiate a fair price locally if you find a boat here.


Robert W. McClane
Dixon Laser Institute
University of Utah
[e-mail]
801-581-7001 Phone
801-585-3098 FAX



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From: [e-mail] (Sanford Meek)
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Need Advice - Boat Purchase
Date: 03 Apr 2000 10:08:51 -0700

At 09:21 4/3/0 -0600, Robert McClane wrote:
>Andrew -
>
>One good option for you is to subscribe to something like Santana, a small
>monthly sailing mag. from S. Ca.

Another good one from the Bay area is Latitude 38.

For a first boat, really decide what you want to do with the boat more than
what the boat seems like.  A primary concern is how many people will be on
the boat.  If you plan on day sailing, get a nice day sailor with a roomy
cockpit and no cabin.  If you plan on only over nighting, you don't need a
huge boat or huge cabin.  If you plan on trailering, go as small as you're
willing to sail.  Trailing can be a real pain launching big boats and
raising big masts and having to drive a Suburban or a Ford Excess at 10 mpg
at $2.00 a gallon.  Trailering can be great when it's 100 degrees in the
valley and you want to go up to a cool mountain lake, or Idaho, or who
knows where.

Practical Sailor (kind of the Consumer Reports for sailing) will send you a
review of various boats (for a charge).  BTW, they gave a very favorable
review of the MacGregor 26x last January (one of the favorable comments was
their good resale value).  I've sailed one in San Fransico Bay.  It was OK.
I don't like the boat but it's because of the looks and big motor.  I
don't like Hunters either.

The nice thing about getting an older boat is like an older car, someone
else has paid for the initial depreciation.  Any used boat of almost any
brand will hold their value.  It's the new boats that depreciate just like
new cars.

Sandy


Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]



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From: Eugene Morgan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: RE: (utah-sailing) Need Advice - Boat Purchase
Date: 03 Apr 2000 15:27:18 -0700

I would like to make a point of clarification regarding my comments about
McGregor boats......  First I'm talking about the older McGregor 26's and
all the 25's.  Second, I'm confining my opinions to trailer sailing.  I'm
not a fan of the 26x, it's a boat that suffers from an identity crisis.

If the context of our discussion expands to include what I will call
"slipped" boats then I agree that Ranger, Catalina, Capri, and Santana and
their fixed keel brothers are a much better boats.  But for a trailer boats
McGregor 26's & 25's are a hard boat to beat.  Yes the Catalina 22 is better
built but they are too crowded.  As to tenderness, the McGregor 25 is pretty
solid for a trailer sailor boat in a blow, I flew mine around Pineview in
40+ winds and on Bear Lake and was a grinning from ear to ear.  The 26 is
more tender (water ballast) but even so was a fun boat to sail in a blow.
Finally, blow decks they are huge.

If you have the cash, Hunter and now Catalina have water ballast trailer
sailors and they are great boats but they are at the upper end of price when
talking about this market segment and have not been out long enough to score
a real entry level price that most new sailors are looking for.

As to resale, I sold my McGregor 25 for what I paid for it.  Once the
original owner has taken the big bit a boats resale value has more to do
with how well it is maintained than any other factor, yes there are
exceptions to the rule but they are rare and typically only when dealing
with high end boats.  I will truthfully admit that it took far longer to
sell my McGregor when I moved to that 30 footer, this is especially true
when I consider how long it took me to sell the 30'.  But as to the fun
factor, I loved both boats.  Both were huge amounts of fun but in different
ways.

Em

 -----Original Message-----
Sent:    Saturday, April 01, 2000 8:45 PM

Here, here on the MacGregor comments.  You can do much better for basically
the same price.  MacGregor's will never have a great resale and remember
that
when you decide to move up to that 30 footer.

LDJ!

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From: "kellycpi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: RE: (utah-sailing) Need Advice - Boat Purchase
Date: 03 Apr 2000 17:03:43 -0600

If you have the money I would recommend a Corsair F-24. It is very roomy,
easy to handle and trailer. Launching is simple and the boats are so stable
and fast you get the best of both worlds. I like my F-27 quite a bit, but
wouldn't want to have to trailer, rig and launch and re-trailer in a day. I
would do it with a F-24. I am a big advocate of Corsair boats and think
folding trimarans get overlooked when someone asks about a trailerable boat!


Kelly Ragsdale



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From: Heidi Solstad <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) Nothing Profound: Managing Time
Date: 03 Apr 2000 16:55:42 MST

Hello all. :)

First, a thank you to all who has made our move to parenting a sailboat a=
 very
pleasant experience.  Though she be, but a mere two weeks old (to Bob and=
 I),
Highwire is a wonderful child and many of you have made our transition sm=
ooth
to say the least. =


I am finding in this short time I have to figure out how to manage the ti=
me
that we do have with our boat. If I had my way, I probably would be just =
about
living down at the marina. That's how much I feel free spirited with the =
water
and sailing. Alas, though I work so few days a week, I am still busy with=
 the
rest of my life; children, house, yardwork, you know the story. =


So, what's the point Heidi? How to manage the time I have with the boat o=
nce I
climb aboard? How to make all my thoughts about her count and when I leav=
e the
house for the marina....what have I forgot? Twenty minutes onto State roa=
d 202
and I don't want to turn back. You know the story on that one?

If you have ideas or have done things that have worked to schedule the ti=
me
you take to be on a boat then please pass it along. Once again, you are
helpful. Thank you in advance.

So many sailors, so much to say, so much fun.

Heidi

____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.

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From: "Darin Christensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSLYC Brine Flyer Articles
Date: 03 Apr 2000 18:54:29 -0600

There is still time to be part of the most interesting publication
produced by the Great Salt Lake Yacht Club! In only a few short
weeks, another exciting, action packed issue of
the Brine Flyer will be hitting the newsstands and the only thing it
needs is content!  I would like to dedicate this issue to cruising;
Great Salt Lake or elsewhere, and I need articles and/or
information on where to go, how to do it, how to get ready, how to
equip the vessel, and what to take.  Please send me your
contributions about cruising and whatever else you think is
important.  This edition will be going to press about April 25.
_____________________________________________________
Darin Christensen
Editor GSLYC Brine Flyer

email: [e-mail]

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Need Advice - Boat Purchase
Date: 04 Apr 2000 00:14:31 EDT

I think if you do a little math you will find that the Macgregor 25 and the
original water ballasted 26 have far better resale than most boats of
comparable age.  For example a 1982 Mac 25 sold for about $7500 new, on a
trailer with sails, ready to go.  The same boat today will sell for $ 5000 to
6500.  A 1982 J-24 sold new in the same sail away condition for close to
$20000 and today would go for around $9000 to $12000 on the used market.  One
look in Santana , Lattitude 38 or any other sailing magazine will show that
the Mac stands up better in the resale game than just about anything ever
built.  The Macgregors are not for everyone but for someone getting into
sailing with a modest budget there is no better boat on the market that
offers the sailing performance and interior accomodations of the Mac 25 and
26 (  my comments here do not pertain to the newer 26x powersailer).  I back
these comments up with over 20 years of sailing owning everything from a
sunfish - Mac 25 - Santana 35 - Schock 35 - Capri 30-Merit 25 and countless
more , no other boat offered more bang for the buck than the Macgregor!

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From: Wes Peters <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Nothing Profound: Managing Time
Date: 04 Apr 2000 08:49:55 -0600

Heidi Solstad wrote:
>
> If you have ideas or have done things that have worked to schedule the time
> you take to be on a boat then please pass it along. Once again, you are
> helpful. Thank you in advance.

Take Ray and Rocky's advice -- kill your yard, save the water, and leave
more time for sailing.  ;^)

I've found at various times that collecting a few friends and some promises
to race helps give everyone a reason to show up and go sailing.  Even if
you're a novice sailor, not that interested in competition, or don't have
any real wish to race, having a reason and a schedule helps to get people
to show up.  As Dave Taylor points out, racing will make you a better
sailor even if you're primarily interested in cruising or daysailing, by
making your more aware of what your boat is capable of and how it feels
when sailed well.

--
            "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters                                                         Softweyr LLC
[e-mail]                                           http://softweyr.com/

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From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Nothing Profound: Managing Time
Date: 04 Apr 2000 10:59:20 -0600

Forgetting something you might need for the sail at home is the boat
owners perogative. Woe unto the crew member who forgets anything. That's
the way it is folks, sorry.

Rocky

Wes Peters wrote:
>
> Heidi Solstad wrote:
> >
> > If you have ideas or have done things that have worked to schedule the time
> > you take to be on a boat then please pass it along. Once again, you are
> > helpful. Thank you in advance.
>
> Take Ray and Rocky's advice -- kill your yard, save the water, and leave
> more time for sailing.  ;^)
>
> I've found at various times that collecting a few friends and some promises
> to race helps give everyone a reason to show up and go sailing.  Even if
> you're a novice sailor, not that interested in competition, or don't have
> any real wish to race, having a reason and a schedule helps to get people
> to show up.  As Dave Taylor points out, racing will make you a better
> sailor even if you're primarily interested in cruising or daysailing, by
> making your more aware of what your boat is capable of and how it feels
> when sailed well.
>
> --
>             "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
>
> Wes Peters                                                         Softweyr LLC
> [e-mail]                                           http://softweyr.com/
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).

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From: Paul Doubek <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Nothing Profound: Managing Time
Date: 04 Apr 2000 11:45:10 -0600

Another plug for racing and the scheduled commitment: it gets me out on
the water in weather I might otherwise avoid. This includes both
extremes: extremely heavy and extremely light air (probably 98% of GSL
weather). Do your homework before going out in heavy air; practice with
your reefing system and dousing the headsail. Know where your safety
equipment is. Take some experienced sailors with you until you know the
drill. Committing to finishing the race will force you to learn how to
handle anything that comes up.

That's my 2 cents worth, anyway,
Paul Doubek

Wes Peters wrote:
>
> Heidi Solstad wrote:
> >
> > If you have ideas or have done things that have worked to schedule the time
> > you take to be on a boat then please pass it along. Once again, you are
> > helpful. Thank you in advance.
>
> Take Ray and Rocky's advice -- kill your yard, save the water, and leave
> more time for sailing.  ;^)
>
> I've found at various times that collecting a few friends and some promises
> to race helps give everyone a reason to show up and go sailing.  Even if
> you're a novice sailor, not that interested in competition, or don't have
> any real wish to race, having a reason and a schedule helps to get people
> to show up.  As Dave Taylor points out, racing will make you a better
> sailor even if you're primarily interested in cruising or daysailing, by
> making your more aware of what your boat is capable of and how it feels
> when sailed well.

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) GSLYC Brine Flyer Articles
Date: 04 Apr 2000 16:53:40 EDT

Question:  Do you take advertising, that relates to sailing services?  Please
let me know, I would be interested in advertising in your rag.

LDJ
LDJ Productions
[e-mail]

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From: "ernst G Beier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) GSLYC Brine Flyer Articles
Date: 04 Apr 2000 18:32:57 -0600

I do not  know whether I am subscribed or not. In any case I would like to
subscribe. Please let me  know where?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 6:54 PM


> There is still time to be part of the most interesting publication
> produced by the Great Salt Lake Yacht Club! In only a few short
> weeks, another exciting, action packed issue of
> the Brine Flyer will be hitting the newsstands and the only thing it
> needs is content!  I would like to dedicate this issue to cruising;
> Great Salt Lake or elsewhere, and I need articles and/or
> information on where to go, how to do it, how to get ready, how to
> equip the vessel, and what to take.  Please send me your
> contributions about cruising and whatever else you think is
> important.  This edition will be going to press about April 25.
> _____________________________________________________
> Darin Christensen
> Editor GSLYC Brine Flyer
>
> email: [e-mail]
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>


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From: "Darin Christensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) GSLYC Brine Flyer Articles
Date: 04 Apr 2000 19:37:43 -0600

Ernst,
Your message to me is enough to begin the process of
subscribing.  I will forward your request to Jana Morgan who will
you subscribed.
_____________________________________________________
Darin Christensen
Editor GSLYC Brine Flyer

email: [e-mail]

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) GSLYC Brine Flyer Articles
Date: 05 Apr 2000 12:24:05 EDT

Darin--I would like to subscribe to the Brine Flyer as well---what should I
do?

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From: "Kimberly McKnight" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) GSLYC Brine Flyer Articles
Date: 05 Apr 2000 12:08:19 -0600

Please add me to your list of subscribers as well.  Let me know if you need
any further information.  Thanks.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 7:37 PM


> Ernst,
> Your message to me is enough to begin the process of
> subscribing.  I will forward your request to Jana Morgan who will
> you subscribed.
> _____________________________________________________
> Darin Christensen
> Editor GSLYC Brine Flyer
>
> email: [e-mail]
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>
>


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 05 Apr 2000 15:46:58 EDT

Does anyone use gps with mapping/charting capability on the GSL? So far I
have not found a unit which has a slide in cartridge or cd download of the
GSL?
thanks

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From: "David Oswald" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 05 Apr 2000 19:02:47 -0700

On 5 Apr 2000, at 15:46,
 [e-mail] <[e-mail]> wrote the following
 in regards to: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl:

> Does anyone use gps with mapping/charting capability on the GSL? So far I
> have not found a unit which has a slide in cartridge or cd download of the
> GSL?
> thanks

I could be wrong about this, but I believe that there simply is no
detailed electronic chart of the GSL.  The most detailed chart we
have is the one provided (at a reasonably nominal fee) by the GSLYC.
The USGS maps don't offer much information on depth, and the old
chart like the one on the wall of the South Shore harbormaster's
office is not only less detailed than the GSLYC's but also is out of
print.  At any rate, all of those charts and maps are on paper, not
electronic.

I suppose that there simply isn't enough of a customer base to
justify a GSL electronic chart, especially in GPS Cartridge format.

By the way, to give you all a status update, things are going well
here in Portland, OR.  I've been here two months now.  I'm still boat
shopping, so I would welcome any hot leads on a pocket-cruiser
between 22 and 27 feet.

I have been unable to find any Oregon-oriented sailing emailing list.
 It's too bad too; I could use all sorts of advice on sailing the
Columbia.

Dave Oswald
--
David Oswald | [e-mail]
  A person who has had a bull by the tail once has
  learned 60 or 70 times as much as one who hasn't.
   --   Mark Twain

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From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 05 Apr 2000 19:14:50 -0700

Dave, A few years ago I was on  film project in Seattle and of course was
immediately drawn to the Boats for Sale part of the local paper. I was very
amused at the items of greater interest than what might be such in So Cal. Not
spinnaker gear, not self tailers, BUT.... heater BTUs, and ground tackle.

One year I left a 4th of July party on my dock in Marina del Rey where the dock
party recreationalists were heavy into getting things going, dressed in bathing
suits and Mumus. Six hours later after flying in to Seattle and taking a ferry
and driving to Point Angeles, (?) I checked into a Ramada Inn, checked out my
room and saw from the window hundreds of sail masts within walking distance.

I moved on down that way and lo and behold, they were having a similar 4th
party. The obvious difference was that on this fine sunny day in early July
everyone was wearing their foulies!

Good luck.

Mahalo,

Ray and Rocky


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From: Todd Frye <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 06 Apr 2000 08:56:55 -0600

Sorry I can't help you with your GPS question....because I have the same =
one. To add to the list though, I've been trying to find a source for =
recommended "on board" computers ( lap tops, I presume ) that interpret =
GPS info.=20

 Although I haven't been to the ocean yet, it IS going to happen and I'd =
like to have some back up nav systems like electronic charting capabilities=
.

Do you currently have an on board computer and what is your evaluation of =
performance, reliability, software, auto helms, GPS, etc. Any good books =
you can recommend on this subject?

Thank you for your time,

Todd Frye

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From: "Bryant Pratt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) Dinghy Racing Seminar
Date: 06 Apr 2000 12:40:43 -0600

Hey, all you dingy dinghy sailors,

Sunfish, Lasers, Flying Scots, Optimists, Sabots, Lido 14s,
Hobies, you name it, we want to talk to you!

Come hear about the Portsmouth Dinghy and Multihull Racing
Program at the Great Salt Lake.  Old fleets, new fleets,
we'll have racing for you.  Cats and half-cats, all are
welcome!

The FREE seminar will be held at 7 p.m. on Monday, April 10,
in the third floor Lecture Hall in the Salt Lake City Main
Library, 209 E. 500 S., Salt Lake City.

This seminar is presented as part of the Great Salt Lake
Yacht Club's annual Sailing Seminars Series.



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From: Dave Jensen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Dinghy Racing Seminar
Date: 06 Apr 2000 12:50:29 -0600

Bryant Pratt:

In the old days, we in the Utah Sailing Association use to do what your
talking about.  The starting line is rather suicidal but fun. Haha.

As a suggestion what you need to do, is have the faster boats like
Hobies etc. go around the course two or three time while mono hauls go
around once, so everyone finishes about the same time.  Thus avoiding
waiting on the water for extended periods of time for the faster boats.

Do Force5s count?

I will see if I can dredge up my brother, Mark Jensen, and perhaps Dave
Shearer can can his Dad, Andy Shearer, out too.  Would be fun to get us
"Masters" back grinding on one another. LOL  I also saw Chuck Fields the
other day, I will try and give him a call.

Sounds fun.

Thanks and Sincerely, Dave Jensen

Bryant Pratt wrote:

> Hey, all you dingy dinghy sailors,
>
> Sunfish, Lasers, Flying Scots, Optimists, Sabots, Lido 14s,
> Hobies, you name it, we want to talk to you!
>
> Come hear about the Portsmouth Dinghy and Multihull Racing
> Program at the Great Salt Lake.  Old fleets, new fleets,
> we'll have racing for you.  Cats and half-cats, all are
> welcome!
>
> The FREE seminar will be held at 7 p.m. on Monday, April 10,
> in the third floor Lecture Hall in the Salt Lake City Main
> Library, 209 E. 500 S., Salt Lake City.
>
> This seminar is presented as part of the Great Salt Lake
> Yacht Club's annual Sailing Seminars Series.
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sanford Meek)
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 06 Apr 2000 13:05:01 -0700


>> Does anyone use gps with mapping/charting capability on the GSL? So far I
>> have not found a unit which has a slide in cartridge or cd download of the
>> GSL?


You should be able to get the USGS topo maps for the GSL but you won't find
a nautical chart electronically (yet - hopefully).

Sandy


Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sid <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 06 Apr 2000 14:00:58 -0600


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 1:46 PM


> Does anyone use gps with mapping/charting capability on the GSL? So far I
> have not found a unit which has a slide in cartridge or cd download of the
> GSL?
> thanks
>
Garmin Make a GPS unit that takes charts for the UTAH/NEVADA/ARIZONA area
and also makes a GPS Chart specifically for the GREAT SALT LAKE.  I have the
Garmin 175 along with both of the above listed charts for that 175 and the
GSL chart detail is quite good.  If you would like to see this chart come
down to my boat and I'll be happy to show it to you or call me at Sidsports
and I can give you more info.

                    Dave Shearer


> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wes Peters <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 06 Apr 2000 18:14:24 -0600

Todd Frye wrote:
>
> Sorry I can't help you with your GPS question....because I have the
> same one. To add to the list though, I've been trying to find a
> source for recommended "on board" computers ( lap tops, I presume )
> that interpret GPS info.
>
>  Although I haven't been to the ocean yet, it IS going to happen and
> I'd like to have some back up nav systems like electronic charting
> capabilities.
>
> Do you currently have an on board computer and what is your
> evaluation of performance, reliability, software, auto helms, GPS,
> etc. Any good books you can recommend on this subject?

Hi Todd, long time no see.  As with all things compute-ish, this boils
down to hardware and software.  I can't make any recommendations on
charting software; I haven't bought any (yet) because none of them
cover GSL.  You'll find the packages available all run on Windows, you
can make your own decisions about the quality of THAT.

For laptop hardware, I heartily recommend Sony VAIO.  I attended a
conference for UNIX and Internet developers last fall; hard-core types
who make their living on their laptops crawling around labs and
customer sites.  There were a sprinking of Toshiba Librettos - for
their tiny size, a few Dells, for their big screens, a few IBMs for
their reliability, but more than 2/3 of the nearly 500 attendees were
carrying Sony VAIOs.  They're well designed, well built, and offer
quite a value for the feature set.

Best of luck.  Let me know how you do on software.


--
            "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters                                                         Softweyr LLC
[e-mail]                                           http://softweyr.com/

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (David Taylor)
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 06 Apr 2000 20:38:41 -0600 (MDT)

For all you guys talking about GPS/Plotting systems, onboard computers,
and oceans, it would be VERY worth your while to investigate celestial
navigation as a backup instead of the latest electronic doodadery.
Dave T.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 06 Apr 2000 19:49:43 -0700

 I have a TAMAYA NC77 hand held digital navigation computer for standard
celestial navigation buffs.  Price: $300

Ray Tostado





David Taylor wrote:

> For all you guys talking about GPS/Plotting systems, onboard computers,
> and oceans, it would be VERY worth your while to investigate celestial
> navigation as a backup instead of the latest electronic doodadery.
> Dave T.
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kitts, Jan (MED, OEC)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 06 Apr 2000 12:36:55 -0500

Check with Dave Shearer at Sidsports.  I believe that I have seen an
electronic map on his GPS.

    -----Original Message-----
    From:    David Oswald [SMTP:[e-mail]]
    Sent:    Wednesday, April 05, 2000 8:03 PM
    To:    [e-mail]
    Subject:    Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl

    On 5 Apr 2000, at 15:46,
     [e-mail] <[e-mail]> wrote the
following
     in regards to: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl:

    > Does anyone use gps with mapping/charting capability on the
GSL? So far I
    > have not found a unit which has a slide in cartridge or cd
download of the
    > GSL?
    > thanks

    I could be wrong about this, but I believe that there simply is
no
    detailed electronic chart of the GSL.  The most detailed chart
we
    have is the one provided (at a reasonably nominal fee) by the
GSLYC.
    The USGS maps don't offer much information on depth, and the old

    chart like the one on the wall of the South Shore harbormaster's

    office is not only less detailed than the GSLYC's but also is
out of
    print.  At any rate, all of those charts and maps are on paper,
not
    electronic.

    I suppose that there simply isn't enough of a customer base to
    justify a GSL electronic chart, especially in GPS Cartridge
format.

    By the way, to give you all a status update, things are going
well
    here in Portland, OR.  I've been here two months now.  I'm still
boat
    shopping, so I would welcome any hot leads on a pocket-cruiser
    between 22 and 27 feet.

    I have been unable to find any Oregon-oriented sailing emailing
list.
     It's too bad too; I could use all sorts of advice on sailing
the
    Columbia.

    Dave Oswald
    --
    David Oswald | [e-mail]
      A person who has had a bull by the tail once has
      learned 60 or 70 times as much as one who hasn't.
       --   Mark Twain

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wes Peters <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 07 Apr 2000 00:14:23 -0600

David Taylor wrote:
>
> For all you guys talking about GPS/Plotting systems, onboard computers,
> and oceans, it would be VERY worth your while to investigate celestial
> navigation as a backup instead of the latest electronic doodadery.
> Dave T.

Working on it.  You wanna give lessons?  ;^)

--
            "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters                                                         Softweyr LLC
[e-mail]                                           http://softweyr.com/

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BILHARRIS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 07 Apr 2000 05:33:45 -0600

Dave,
I used the Garmin gps 135 which has a slide in chart of the western,
southwestern United States which also included the GSL.  It also interfaced with
my laptop as well as other NEMA devices.  The only thing I don't like about it
is  that it doesn't have depths on the charts, but  are provided by the depth
finder (they call it a fish finder, but we all know there are no such things in
the GSL.)
The new and improved GPS 185 with sounder can be had at Robertson Marine or West
Marine.
Good luck in Oregon,
Bill

David Oswald wrote:

> On 5 Apr 2000, at 15:46,
>  [e-mail] <[e-mail]> wrote the following
>  in regards to: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl:
>
> > Does anyone use gps with mapping/charting capability on the GSL? So far I
> > have not found a unit which has a slide in cartridge or cd download of the
> > GSL?
> > thanks
>
> I could be wrong about this, but I believe that there simply is no
> detailed electronic chart of the GSL.  The most detailed chart we
> have is the one provided (at a reasonably nominal fee) by the GSLYC.
> The USGS maps don't offer much information on depth, and the old
> chart like the one on the wall of the South Shore harbormaster's
> office is not only less detailed than the GSLYC's but also is out of
> print.  At any rate, all of those charts and maps are on paper, not
> electronic.
>
> I suppose that there simply isn't enough of a customer base to
> justify a GSL electronic chart, especially in GPS Cartridge format.
>
> By the way, to give you all a status update, things are going well
> here in Portland, OR.  I've been here two months now.  I'm still boat
> shopping, so I would welcome any hot leads on a pocket-cruiser
> between 22 and 27 feet.
>
> I have been unable to find any Oregon-oriented sailing emailing list.
>  It's too bad too; I could use all sorts of advice on sailing the
> Columbia.
>
> Dave Oswald
> --
> David Oswald | [e-mail]
>   A person who has had a bull by the tail once has
>   learned 60 or 70 times as much as one who hasn't.
>    --   Mark Twain
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sanford Meek)
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 07 Apr 2000 09:48:17 -0700

At 20:38 4/6/0 -0600, David Taylor wrote:
>For all you guys talking about GPS/Plotting systems, onboard computers,
>and oceans, it would be VERY worth your while to investigate celestial
>navigation as a backup instead of the latest electronic doodadery.


I do that.  The GSL is a great place to practice as you can see the
horizon.  When the winds die, I sometimes take a sight and calculate where
I am.  Every once in a while, I find that I'm in the GSL.  I occasionally
measure within a mile or two of where I am.

Coastal navigation techniques should be practiced regularly, also.

Sandy



Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sid <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 07 Apr 2000 10:13:16 -0600


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 5:33 AM

Bill,
Good to hear from you.   My Garmin GSL chart does have depths along with
bottom contours and has proven quite accurate. Garmin not only makes a chart
for western states but they also make a Great Salt Lake specific chart.  If
anyone would like to see the Garmin 175 or this GSL chart I will be out at
the lake on Saturday night and on Sunday.




> Dave,
> I used the Garmin gps 135 which has a slide in chart of the western,
> southwestern United States which also included the GSL.  It also
interfaced with
> my laptop as well as other NEMA devices.  The only thing I don't like
about it
> is  that it doesn't have depths on the charts, but  are provided by the
depth
> finder (they call it a fish finder, but we all know there are no such
things in
> the GSL.)
> The new and improved GPS 185 with sounder can be had at Robertson Marine
or West
> Marine.
> Good luck in Oregon,
> Bill
>
> David Oswald wrote:
>
> > On 5 Apr 2000, at 15:46,
> >  [e-mail] <[e-mail]> wrote the following
> >  in regards to: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl:
> >
> > > Does anyone use gps with mapping/charting capability on the GSL? So
far I
> > > have not found a unit which has a slide in cartridge or cd download of
the
> > > GSL?
> > > thanks
> >
> > I could be wrong about this, but I believe that there simply is no
> > detailed electronic chart of the GSL.  The most detailed chart we
> > have is the one provided (at a reasonably nominal fee) by the GSLYC.
> > The USGS maps don't offer much information on depth, and the old
> > chart like the one on the wall of the South Shore harbormaster's
> > office is not only less detailed than the GSLYC's but also is out of
> > print.  At any rate, all of those charts and maps are on paper, not
> > electronic.
> >
> > I suppose that there simply isn't enough of a customer base to
> > justify a GSL electronic chart, especially in GPS Cartridge format.
> >
> > By the way, to give you all a status update, things are going well
> > here in Portland, OR.  I've been here two months now.  I'm still boat
> > shopping, so I would welcome any hot leads on a pocket-cruiser
> > between 22 and 27 feet.
> >
> > I have been unable to find any Oregon-oriented sailing emailing list.
> >  It's too bad too; I could use all sorts of advice on sailing the
> > Columbia.
> >
> > Dave Oswald
> > --
> > David Oswald | [e-mail]
> >   A person who has had a bull by the tail once has
> >   learned 60 or 70 times as much as one who hasn't.
> >    --   Mark Twain
> >
> > * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Quigley, Chris" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 07 Apr 2000 11:12:49 -0500

Dave, Do you know if your GSL chart will download into a Garmin GPS 12 Map?

 Chris Quigley

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 10:13 AM



----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 5:33 AM

Bill,
Good to hear from you.   My Garmin GSL chart does have depths along with
bottom contours and has proven quite accurate. Garmin not only makes a chart
for western states but they also make a Great Salt Lake specific chart.  If
anyone would like to see the Garmin 175 or this GSL chart I will be out at
the lake on Saturday night and on Sunday.




> Dave,
> I used the Garmin gps 135 which has a slide in chart of the western,
> southwestern United States which also included the GSL.  It also
interfaced with
> my laptop as well as other NEMA devices.  The only thing I don't like
about it
> is  that it doesn't have depths on the charts, but  are provided by the
depth
> finder (they call it a fish finder, but we all know there are no such
things in
> the GSL.)
> The new and improved GPS 185 with sounder can be had at Robertson Marine
or West
> Marine.
> Good luck in Oregon,
> Bill
>
> David Oswald wrote:
>
> > On 5 Apr 2000, at 15:46,
> >  [e-mail] <[e-mail]> wrote the following
> >  in regards to: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl:
> >
> > > Does anyone use gps with mapping/charting capability on the GSL? So
far I
> > > have not found a unit which has a slide in cartridge or cd download of
the
> > > GSL?
> > > thanks
> >
> > I could be wrong about this, but I believe that there simply is no
> > detailed electronic chart of the GSL.  The most detailed chart we
> > have is the one provided (at a reasonably nominal fee) by the GSLYC.
> > The USGS maps don't offer much information on depth, and the old
> > chart like the one on the wall of the South Shore harbormaster's
> > office is not only less detailed than the GSLYC's but also is out of
> > print.  At any rate, all of those charts and maps are on paper, not
> > electronic.
> >
> > I suppose that there simply isn't enough of a customer base to
> > justify a GSL electronic chart, especially in GPS Cartridge format.
> >
> > By the way, to give you all a status update, things are going well
> > here in Portland, OR.  I've been here two months now.  I'm still boat
> > shopping, so I would welcome any hot leads on a pocket-cruiser
> > between 22 and 27 feet.
> >
> > I have been unable to find any Oregon-oriented sailing emailing list.
> >  It's too bad too; I could use all sorts of advice on sailing the
> > Columbia.
> >
> > Dave Oswald
> > --
> > David Oswald | [e-mail]
> >   A person who has had a bull by the tail once has
> >   learned 60 or 70 times as much as one who hasn't.
> >    --   Mark Twain
> >
> > * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Todd Frye <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 07 Apr 2000 10:13:53 -0600

Wes,
Thanks for the input. I had my eye on the Sony, but being a non-techy, =
felt pulled in many different directions.

Todd

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSLYC Island Serenade Cruise
Date: 07 Apr 2000 12:54:15 EDT

A notice to all of those that have signed up for the April 15th Island
Serenade Cruise:

Thanks for participating is this event!  I'm sure we will all have a great
time!

-Boarding time is 6:00 PM (please don't be late, we can't hold the boat)
-Board at the Island Serenade dock (north end of parking lot, near boat ramp)
-If you owe a balance for your tickets, please arrive early so we can take
care of it.
-Be sure to bring proof of club membership if requested.
-If you so desire, you are allowed to bring your own wine, but no other
drinks are allowed (except for bottled water).  There is a bar on board if
you wish to purchase drinks.  A 'corkage' fee will be charged to open any
bottled wines.
-The buffet menu is still in the works, but will include; hot items, salad,
roll, simple dessert and pop.
-Bring your camera, binoculars, and whatever else you need to make this a
wonderful trip for all!
-Bring a coat.  It can get cold on the water.

If you have not signed up yet and wish to come along with us, please let me
know ASAP.  There is still plenty of room!

If you have any other questions please contact me at 364-8217 or
[e-mail]

Thanks to all of you who have paid and are coming along with us!  It's great
to see so many of you support these new events!  I hope you enjoy yourself!
And I hope we can offer more of these types of events in the future.  Your
support is much appreciated.

See you on board!
terry, GSLYC social chair



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wes Peters <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 07 Apr 2000 16:13:49 -0600

Todd Frye wrote:
>
> Wes,
> Thanks for the input. I had my eye on the Sony, but being a non-techy,
> felt pulled in many different directions.

I forgot to mention the DV capabilities are pretty cool, too.  ;^)

--
            "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters                                                         Softweyr LLC
[e-mail]                                           http://softweyr.com/

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eugene Morgan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 10 Apr 2000 15:56:54 -0700

As to celestial navigation, our Cruise Chairman thought that on one of our
cruises that he might offer that as an activity.  I know it was talked about
but I don't know where it was left.... Tim any word here?


 -----Original Message-----
Sent:    Friday, April 07, 2000 12:14 AM

David Taylor wrote:
>
> For all you guys talking about GPS/Plotting systems, onboard computers,
> and oceans, it would be VERY worth your while to investigate celestial
> navigation as a backup instead of the latest electronic doodadery.
> Dave T.

Working on it.  You wanna give lessons?  ;^)

--
            "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters                                                         Softweyr
LLC
[e-mail]
http://softweyr.com/

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (utah-sailing) Two Island Serenade Updates!
Date: 11 Apr 2000 00:04:57 EDT

Two issues regarding the GSLYC Island Serenade Cruise this Sat.:

First, if you have not confirmed with Terry, or have not sent in your deposit
by this Wednesday, AM you will not be cruising with us.
All meals will be ordered Wed. based on the number of passengers that have
reserved their seats.  Due to the food order there can be no exceptions
regarding getting on board.  Please make sure that everyone knows this
regarding the cruise.  We cannot allow people to just show up and expect to
hop on board and be fed that night.  Thanks for understanding.

Second, and much more important issue:
Go Hawaiian!!!  Let's do this cruise right with a Hawaiian Theme!
Dress up and have some fun!  Looks like the food will be Hawaiian chicken
kabobs and other yummy Island treats!   Come on Commodore Morgan, pull out
that grass skirt and get crazy!  Limbo Baby Limbo!

Terry 364-8217  [e-mail]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) Thought for the day
Date: 11 Apr 2000 09:00:34 -0700


Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds
discuss people.

Rocky


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sanford Meek)
Subject: (utah-sailing) registration
Date: 11 Apr 2000 16:24:49 -0700

Has anyone gotten their boat registration materials yet?  It's a third of
the way through April, and I haven't received a thing and was wondering if
it's just me or if the state is really slow this year.

Sandy


Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]



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From: Robert McClane <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
Date: 11 Apr 2000 16:34:51 -0600

I had the same question last week, so I called (and called and called) to
find that they were supposedly in the mail.  I got mine about Wed. last
week.  They were not in any hurry to send them out this year.

>Has anyone gotten their boat registration materials yet?  It's a third of
>the way through April, and I haven't received a thing and was wondering if
>it's just me or if the state is really slow this year.
>
>Sandy


Robert W. McClane
Dixon Laser Institute
University of Utah
[e-mail]
801-581-7001 Phone
801-585-3098 FAX



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From: "Kelly Ragsdale" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
Date: 11 Apr 2000 20:35:18 -0600

Got mine promptly the first week of April.




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From: "ernst G Beier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
Date: 12 Apr 2000 12:18:02 -0600

I received  mine a week ago. ernst  Beier C21
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 4:34 PM


> I had the same question last week, so I called (and called and called) to
> find that they were supposedly in the mail.  I got mine about Wed. last
> week.  They were not in any hurry to send them out this year.
>
> >Has anyone gotten their boat registration materials yet?  It's a third of
> >the way through April, and I haven't received a thing and was wondering
if
> >it's just me or if the state is really slow this year.
> >
> >Sandy
>
>
> Robert W. McClane
> Dixon Laser Institute
> University of Utah
> [e-mail]
> 801-581-7001 Phone
> 801-585-3098 FAX
>
>
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Doubek <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
Date: 12 Apr 2000 12:36:43 -0600

The state is slow. We got the Finn registration a week ago but I haven't
seen the Laser registration yet.

pd

ernst G Beier wrote:
>
> I received  mine a week ago. ernst  Beier C21
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert McClane <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 4:34 PM
> Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
>
> > I had the same question last week, so I called (and called and called) to
> > find that they were supposedly in the mail.  I got mine about Wed. last
> > week.  They were not in any hurry to send them out this year.
> >
> > >Has anyone gotten their boat registration materials yet?  It's a third of
> > >the way through April, and I haven't received a thing and was wondering
> if
> > >it's just me or if the state is really slow this year.
> > >
> > >Sandy

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stirk <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 00:00:18 -0600

I registered my (used) Flying Scot for the first time last year, but this year's
materials state; "Insufficient info to determine amount of tax".  So how was it
possible to make the determination last year?.  I sense an impending dual with
bureaucracy.  Any tips before I step into the arena ?

Paul Doubek wrote:

> The state is slow. We got the Finn registration a week ago but I haven't
> seen the Laser registration yet.
>
> pd
>
> ernst G Beier wrote:
> >
> > I received  mine a week ago. ernst  Beier C21
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Robert McClane <[e-mail]>
> > To: <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 4:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
> >
> > > I had the same question last week, so I called (and called and called) to
> > > find that they were supposedly in the mail.  I got mine about Wed. last
> > > week.  They were not in any hurry to send them out this year.
> > >
> > > >Has anyone gotten their boat registration materials yet?  It's a third of
> > > >the way through April, and I haven't received a thing and was wondering
> > if
> > > >it's just me or if the state is really slow this year.
> > > >
> > > >Sandy
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).


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From: Paul Doubek <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 08:59:18 -0600

They seem a bit confused. I registered the Finn and Laser yesterday... I
still haven't gotten the Laser registration form in the mail. I bought
the Laser last year and had the paper form, but they were able to print
a registration card since I was "in the system"... then they butchered
my name! Last year they didn't have any problem determining the taxable
value, this year she was having a tough time. My guess would be that the
criteria changed; which might also explain the lateness on the forms.
After asking me "what size motor" it's got, and seeming really perplexed
at my response, she finally assessed it at the minimum value of $500.

I hope this helps,
Paul Doubek

Stirk wrote:
>
> I registered my (used) Flying Scot for the first time last year, but this year's
> materials state; "Insufficient info to determine amount of tax".  So how was it
> possible to make the determination last year?.  I sense an impending dual with
> bureaucracy.  Any tips before I step into the arena ?
>
> Paul Doubek wrote:
>
> > The state is slow. We got the Finn registration a week ago but I haven't
> > seen the Laser registration yet.
> >
> > pd

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sanford Meek)
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 09:41:14 -0700

At 00:00 4/13/0 -0600, Stirk wrote:
>I registered my (used) Flying Scot for the first time last year, but this
>year's
>materials state; "Insufficient info to determine amount of tax".  So how was it
>possible to make the determination last year?.  I sense an impending dual with
>bureaucracy.  Any tips before I step into the arena ?


I've had a persistant problem for the past five or six years getting my
dinghy materials through the mail.  Last year, I perservered and finally
talked with the director of the department.  He figured the problem was
that the dighy did not have a motor listed.  He assured me that the problem
was solved ... I'm still waiting for my registration materials for both
boats (there's an outboard listed for the other one).  Apparently this
state doesn't seem to understnad that boats don't need to have motors.
That would explain quite a bit about the state's approach to watercraft
(and bicycles, and hikers) - if you don't have a motor, what the hell are
you doin out there.

Sandy


Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Quigley, Chris" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 10:57:34 -0500

    I have never had a problem getting my scow registered, except for 2
years ago when they sent me an off-highway vehicle sticker to put on it.  I
guess it technically is an off-highway vehicle but nevertheless I exchanged
the sticker with one that had a boat on it.  My sister tried to register her
Laser last year and they told her she didn't need to register it.  Maybe
they thought the Laser was a windsurfer.

 Chris Quigley

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 10:41 AM


At 00:00 4/13/0 -0600, Stirk wrote:
>I registered my (used) Flying Scot for the first time last year, but this
>year's
>materials state; "Insufficient info to determine amount of tax".  So how
was it
>possible to make the determination last year?.  I sense an impending dual
with
>bureaucracy.  Any tips before I step into the arena ?


I've had a persistant problem for the past five or six years getting my
dinghy materials through the mail.  Last year, I perservered and finally
talked with the director of the department.  He figured the problem was
that the dighy did not have a motor listed.  He assured me that the problem
was solved ... I'm still waiting for my registration materials for both
boats (there's an outboard listed for the other one).  Apparently this
state doesn't seem to understnad that boats don't need to have motors.
That would explain quite a bit about the state's approach to watercraft
(and bicycles, and hikers) - if you don't have a motor, what the hell are
you doin out there.

Sandy


Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Craig Pearson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 10:01:59 -0600

This will be my 5th year to register my Venture 21 and every year I get the
same "Insufficient info to determine amount of tax". I complain every year
but it doesn't do any good. Maybe the state should buy a computer to help
them with this, I hear computers are quite popular and efficient nowadays ;-)




> "Insufficient info to determine amount of tax".  So how was it
>possible to make the determination last year?.  I sense an impending dual
with
>bureaucracy.  Any tips before I step into the arena ?



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alyxandra K. MacLeod" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 10:13:36 -0600

Registration, such fun.  When I registered my newly purchased
Catalina 22 last fall they said they didn't need a new title
because the boat was so old, there are already like two or three
transfer of ownership signatures on it.  But I did register the
trailer, and got a new title for it in the mail.  She was also
confused that the boat didn't need to have a motor.  I haven't
received anything for this year, but I moved, so that might be
why.  Better call with my new address...
Cyn

--
"What does that mean?"
"It means the Matrix cannot tell you who you are."

ICQ #10306498
http://www.utahdogs.com



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From: Glen Martinsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 10:20:22 -0600

What is the legality of registration.  Based on length?  Horsepower?  A 14'
Hobie with no motor, and you occasionally sail standing up could qualify as
a windsurfer?

Gravity...It's Not Just a Good Idea. It's the Law


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Doubek <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 10:20:46 -0600

Chris, I'd tell your sister to get that in writing... so she has grounds
to fight the ticket!

pd

"Quigley, Chris" wrote:
>
>         I have never had a problem getting my scow registered, except for 2
> years ago when they sent me an off-highway vehicle sticker to put on it.  I
> guess it technically is an off-highway vehicle but nevertheless I exchanged
> the sticker with one that had a boat on it.  My sister tried to register her
> Laser last year and they told her she didn't need to register it.  Maybe
> they thought the Laser was a windsurfer.
>
>  Chris Quigley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 10:41 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) registration
>
> At 00:00 4/13/0 -0600, Stirk wrote:
> >I registered my (used) Flying Scot for the first time last year, but this
> >year's
> >materials state; "Insufficient info to determine amount of tax".  So how
> was it
> >possible to make the determination last year?.  I sense an impending dual
> with
> >bureaucracy.  Any tips before I step into the arena ?
>
> I've had a persistant problem for the past five or six years getting my
> dinghy materials through the mail.  Last year, I perservered and finally
> talked with the director of the department.  He figured the problem was
> that the dighy did not have a motor listed.  He assured me that the problem
> was solved ... I'm still waiting for my registration materials for both
> boats (there's an outboard listed for the other one).  Apparently this
> state doesn't seem to understnad that boats don't need to have motors.
> That would explain quite a bit about the state's approach to watercraft
> (and bicycles, and hikers) - if you don't have a motor, what the hell are
> you doin out there.
>
> Sandy
>
> Sanford Meek
> Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
> University of Utah
> [phone]
> [e-mail]
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sanford Meek)
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 10:40:10 -0700

At 10:20 4/13/0 -0600, Glen Martinsen wrote:
>What is the legality of registration.  Based on length?  Horsepower?  A 14'
>Hobie with no motor, and you occasionally sail standing up could qualify as
>a windsurfer?


I have the official rules at home but any motor or sailboat (except
windsurfers - there is a special exeption for these - the reason is that
there's no good place to put the numbers on a windsurfer) must be
registered.  Only small, human-powered boats (kayaks, canoes, etc) do not
need to be registered - unless you put a motor or sail on it.

You do not have to register a single axis trailer for a boat.  That's why
you do not need a license plate on single axis boat trailers.  The idea is
that since there's a boat that's registered on the trailer and a boat
trailer is only used for boats, only resigter one item - scary, that makes
sense - this is the state after all!

You'd better register the Hobie.

Sandy

BTW, I got surveyed by the USU boating survey for the state.  I requested a
copy of the results.  For those who read the state strategic plan, this was
one of the things that the state was planning on doing.


Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alyxandra K. MacLeod" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 10:46:41 -0600

When I registered my boat she said I needed to register the trailer (single
axis), too.  She gave me plates for it and everything.
Cyn

Sanford Meek wrote:

> You do not have to register a single axis trailer for a boat.  That's why
> you do not need a license plate on single axis boat trailers.  The idea is
> that since there's a boat that's registered on the trailer and a boat
> trailer is only used for boats, only resigter one item - scary, that makes
> sense - this is the state after all!
>
> You'd better register the Hobie.
>
> Sandy
>
> BTW, I got surveyed by the USU boating survey for the state.  I requested a
> copy of the results.  For those who read the state strategic plan, this was
> one of the things that the state was planning on doing.
>
> Sanford Meek
> Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
> University of Utah
> [phone]
> [e-mail]
>

--
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"It means the Matrix cannot tell you who you are."

ICQ #10306498
http://www.utahdogs.com



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From: Robert Trim <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 11:43:51 -0600

Plates on a single axle in Utah?  Is this something new for the state?  If the state wants a new money stream it could do as other states have and require plates on single axle trailers... thousands of junk hauling trailers.  Hope this is not true.

Bob Trim
'Trimster'
C22

>>> "Alyxandra K. MacLeod" <[e-mail]> - 4/13/00 10:46 AM >>>
When I registered my boat she said I needed to register the trailer (single
axis), too.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Trim <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) C22 topic
Date: 13 Apr 2000 11:54:08 -0600

For those C22 owners on the list, I have just installed the 'Power lift kit' for the C22 pop-top.  It is one of the best additions to a poptop C22 I've seen yet... well a bigger cooler to hold more beer is pretty high up one the list.. but I digress.  It solves one of the problems that cause injuries on the a C22, that is the top getting lose from the mast lock and crashing to the cabin top.

Anyone who wants to see it, play with it, ask questions, etc.  Contact me off the list.

Bob Trim
C22  'Trimster'

Media Productions
Salt Lake Community College

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert McClane <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 11:55:51 -0600

You only need to register a single axle trailer if you take it out of Utah
- all surrounding states apparently require it.  I believe the DMV usually
recommends registration because of this (plus they get a few extra $).

>When I registered my boat she said I needed to register the trailer (single
>axis), too.  She gave me plates for it and everything.
>Cyn
>
>Sanford Meek wrote:
>
>> You do not have to register a single axis trailer for a boat.  That's why
>> you do not need a license plate on single axis boat trailers.  The idea is
>> that since there's a boat that's registered on the trailer and a boat
>> trailer is only used for boats, only resigter one item - scary, that makes
>> sense - this is the state after all!
>>


Robert W. McClane
Dixon Laser Institute
University of Utah
[e-mail]
801-581-7001 Phone
801-585-3098 FAX



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From: Robert Trim <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 12:30:00 -0600



>>> Robert McClane <[e-mail]> - 4/13/00 11:55 AM >>>
You only need to register a single axle trailer if you take it out of Utah
- all surrounding states apparently require it.


Good point.  On a family camping trip to the pacific north west, we were stopped by the local men in tan because the little trailer full of camping gear we were towing did not have a plate.  They held us up for more than 40 min. on the side of the road while they got someone to call Utah and confirm the states 'no plate' reg.     Must be a low crime area when they would spend so much time on the appearent 'No trailer plate' violation.  Might have even made the local newspapers daily police blotter.  "Utah family attempts to sneek into Washington with no plates".  However, Idaho, Oregon, Calif., Nevada and Arizona police did not bother us at all.  Must be more important crimes there  :-P

Bob Trim
'Trimster'

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Diana Goodell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 12:51:51 -0600

One more to the list - I have not received registration for Pack A Lunch.  =
Glad Ranger Bob will be 'tickled pink' if we have them stuck to our boats =
in May!



>>> Sanford Meek <[e-mail]> 04/13 11:40 AM >>>
At 10:20 4/13/0 -0600, Glen Martinsen wrote:
>What is the legality of registration.  Based on length?  Horsepower?  A =
14'
>Hobie with no motor, and you occasionally sail standing up could qualify =
as
>a windsurfer?


I have the official rules at home but any motor or sailboat (except
windsurfers - there is a special exeption for these - the reason is that
there's no good place to put the numbers on a windsurfer) must be
registered.  Only small, human-powered boats (kayaks, canoes, etc) do not
need to be registered - unless you put a motor or sail on it.

You do not have to register a single axis trailer for a boat.  That's why
you do not need a license plate on single axis boat trailers.  The idea is
that since there's a boat that's registered on the trailer and a boat
trailer is only used for boats, only resigter one item - scary, that makes
sense - this is the state after all!

You'd better register the Hobie.

Sandy

BTW, I got surveyed by the USU boating survey for the state.  I requested =
a
copy of the results.  For those who read the state strategic plan, this =
was
one of the things that the state was planning on doing.


Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]=20



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 12:44:08 -0700

Wrong. You have to register a single axle trailer if the gross weight exceeds the Utah State DMV specifications. Only in select cases where farm and construction trailers are hauling an other wise registered unit will your one  axle be exempt.

Rocky

Robert Trim wrote:

> >>> Robert McClane <[e-mail]> - 4/13/00 11:55 AM >>>
> You only need to register a single axle trailer if you take it out of Utah
> - all surrounding states apparently require it.
>
> Good point.  On a family camping trip to the pacific north west, we were stopped by the local men in tan because the little trailer full of camping gear we were towing did not have a plate.  They held us up for more than 40 min. on the side of the road while they got someone to call Utah and confirm the states 'no plate' reg.     Must be a low crime area when they would spend so much time on the appearent 'No trailer plate' violation.  Might have even made the local newspapers daily police blotter.  "Utah family attempts to sneek into Washington with no plates".  However, Idaho, Oregon, Calif., Nevada and Arizona police did not bother us at all.  Must be more important crimes there  :-P
>
> Bob Trim
> 'Trimster'
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Osborne <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) RE: (Utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 13:38:20 -0600


------ =_NextPart_000_01BFA54D.897B7EA0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It is my understanding that in Utah if it has a sail on it, it needs to =
be registered, although I am not sure as to how they handle windsurfers. =
 They may be exempt, but I defer to others on that.  If you have a 10' =
rowing dinghy, or a canoe, no registration (human powered).  Hoist a =
sail on either and registration is required.

Concerning trailers, in Utah it is based on the weight of the trailer, =
and I seem to recall that it needs to exceed about 450-500 lbs. before =
license and registration are required.  Most small utility trailers and =
dinghy trailers do not need to be licensed, although they will license =
them for you and will not necessarily tell you that it isn't required =
(my experience).  It is also my understanding that as long as a Utah =
legal, non-licensed trailer is attached to a Utah vehicle, it can be =
legally towed in any state (I do this about a dozen times a year in CA =
and NV).

Rich

----------
Sent:     Thursday, April 13, 2000 10:20 AM

What is the legality of registration.  Based on length?  Horsepower?  A =
14'
Hobie with no motor, and you occasionally sail standing up could qualify =
as
a windsurfer?=20

Gravity...It's Not Just a Good Idea. It's the Law


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------ =_NextPart_000_01BFA54D.897B7EA0--


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From: [e-mail] (Sanford Meek)
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 14:24:05 -0700

At 10:46 4/13/0 -0600, Alyxandra K. MacLeod wrote:
>When I registered my boat she said I needed to register the trailer (single
>axis), too.  She gave me plates for it and everything.

Unless they've changed this year, you got bad info from the license folks -
waht else is new?

Sandy


Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Sanford Meek)
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 14:28:53 -0700

At 12:44 4/13/0 -0700, Ray Tostado wrote:
>Wrong. You have to register a single axle trailer if the gross weight exceeds
>the Utah State DMV specifications.

If you're exceeding the limits, you should have two or more axles (or
axes).  Multiple axles require a license.

Sandy


Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]



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From: Robert Trim <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 14:33:09 -0600

Mmmm.  Would be nice to know what the 'gross weight' limit is.  My boat is about 3400 lbs on one axle. The boat has been in Utah for the better part of it's 20+ life and has never had the trailer registered.  I have registered the boat in person several years and never been asked about the trailer.  I have also towed it all over the state, never been stopped.  Any idea on that the GVW is for a single axle to require one of those lovely prison house specials on the back?

Bob Trim

>>> Ray Tostado <[e-mail]> - 4/13/00 1:44 PM >>>
Wrong. You have to register a single axle trailer if the gross weight exceeds the Utah State DMV specifications. Only in select cases where farm and construction trailers are hauling an other wise registered unit will your one  axle be exempt.

Rocky



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From: Dave Jensen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) RE: (Utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 14:33:40 -0600

Well I use to have three windsurfers (10 years ago) and they needed registration.  Rangers weren't very nice about it either and my brother was a ranger. No breaks either.  I thought it was pretty stupid.  No one put numbers on their wind surfers, just put on the annual sticker and they would usually leave you alone.  Sometimes not.

Dave Jensen

Rich Osborne wrote:

> It is my understanding that in Utah if it has a sail on it, it needs to be registered, although I am not sure as to how they handle windsurfers.  They may be exempt, but I defer to others on that.  If you have a 10' rowing dinghy, or a canoe, no registration (human powered).  Hoist a sail on either and registration is required.
>
> Concerning trailers, in Utah it is based on the weight of the trailer, and I seem to recall that it needs to exceed about 450-500 lbs. before license and registration are required.  Most small utility trailers and dinghy trailers do not need to be licensed, although they will license them for you and will not necessarily tell you that it isn't required (my experience).  It is also my understanding that as long as a Utah legal, non-licensed trailer is attached to a Utah vehicle, it can be legally towed in any state (I do this about a dozen times a year in CA and NV).
>
> Rich
>
> ----------
> From:   Glen Martinsen[SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Sent:   Thursday, April 13, 2000 10:20 AM
> To:     Utah-Sailing (E-mail)
> Subject:        (utah-sailing) Registration
>
> What is the legality of registration.  Based on length?  Horsepower?  A 14'
> Hobie with no motor, and you occasionally sail standing up could qualify as
> a windsurfer?
>
> Gravity...It's Not Just a Good Idea. It's the Law
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    Part 1.2    Type: application/ms-tnef
>            Encoding: base64


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From: Robert Trim <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 14:40:24 -0600

It's 2:33pm and I'm on an estimated 25 minute hold with the DMV for... maybe, an answer to the weight question.  They are playing music however.

I fear that the answer will be about as correct as the ones you got from the IRS which caused your audit and of course, a documented 'wrong' answer from an IRS trained customer service employee is not grounds for dismissing your fine.

Bob Trim

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Jensen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 14:46:09 -0600

Robert:

If you don't like the first answer you get, call back in a few minutes and I am sure you will get a different one.

And don't forget, ignorance of the law (whatever that is) is no excuse.

MUAHAHAHahaaaaaaaaa

Dave Jensen

Robert Trim wrote:

> It's 2:33pm and I'm on an estimated 25 minute hold with the DMV for... maybe, an answer to the weight question.  They are playing music however.
>
> I fear that the answer will be about as correct as the ones you got from the IRS which caused your audit and of course, a documented 'wrong' answer from an IRS trained customer service employee is not grounds for dismissing your fine.
>
> Bob Trim
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
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From: [e-mail] (Sanford Meek)
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) RE: (Utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 14:47:38 -0700

At 14:33 4/13/0 -0600, Dave Jensen wrote:
>Well I use to have three windsurfers (10 years ago) and they needed
>registration.  Rangers weren't very nice about it either and my brother was a
>ranger. No breaks either.  I thought it was pretty stupid.  No one put numbers
>on their wind surfers, just put on the annual sticker and they would usually
>leave you alone.  Sometimes not.


They made an exemption for windsurfers a few years ago.  If you have the
strategic plan, there's a history of boating and registration laws in
there.  Mine's at home but I could look it up later.

Sandy


Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]



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From: "Darin Christensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 14:49:24 -0600

According to the nice person at the state I just spoke to over the telephone.....

A boat trailer must have a licence plate if the trailer itself weighs more than 750 pounds regardless of whether it has one or two axles.  So a two axle trailer would not require a plate if it weighed less than 750 pounds, although that is not likely to be the case.  She also said that since many port of entries would question that trailer, they would not recommend going without a plate.

As long as the trailer is legal to be towed in Utah, it is legal to be towed in any state, licenced or not.  The suggestion of a Utah plate on the tow vehicle is probably wise.

Windsurfers are exempt from registration.

All vessels with motors whether canoes, sailboats or battleships must be registered.

All sailboats, other than windsurfers, must be registered which would include Lasers.

Of sourse, if I talked to a different person, perhaps the information would be different!

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From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) (no subject)
Date: 13 Apr 2000 13:54:57 -0700

The topic is getting fuzzy. Owning 5 trailers and having been stopped,
and having spent 43 years in transportation industry, and having a class
#1 CDL I suggest stop any Utah Highway Officer and ask him. I know the
office call makes sense but office people don't issue citations. Most
city police officers will know and ALL HP will know. As I recall it is
around what has been mention at 400 to 450 pounds of trailer weight. It
was not a matter of cargo nature or dead weight. It is the estimated
weight of the actual trailer that was cited upon. You can pretend you
don't know the trailer weight, or you can go to 3900 South and West
Temple. $5.00 buys you certified weight ticket.

Don't confuse the soft touch used in Utah about simple infractions that
go uncited, like parking on the wrong side of the street; cruising
through blvd. stops. In LA, the second day I got here at Mom's house I
was cited for having a 4-sale sign on my Ranchero, parked in the
driveway!

Utah is very laid back about small stuff and if you are stopped it most
likely will be an advisement to get registration, not an impound like
could happen in Cal..


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From: Robert Trim <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) Re: Registration
Date: 13 Apr 2000 16:02:33 -0600

I knew that other than the lack of bullets flying around randomly in the air, there was something I liked about Utah!!

The trailer weighing sounds like a good idea however.  The boat is rearly off it long enough but that's a reason to use when discussing slip rentals with the wife..... :-P

Bob Trim

>>> Ray Tostado <[e-mail]> - 4/13/00 2:54 PM >>>
.....

Utah is very laid back about small stuff and if you are stopped it most
likely will be an advisement to get registration, not an impound like
could happen in Cal..

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From: "Benjamin Packard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) Re: Registration- The Offical Laws
Date: 13 Apr 2000 16:28:48 -0600

From title 41 -- Motor Vehicles, Ch 01a -- Motor Vehicle Act, 41-1a-202
Definitions -- Vehicles exempt from registration:
  (h)    trailer of 750 pounds or less unladen weight and not designed,
used, and maintained for hire for the transportation of property or person;

This is the official law from the state. For other exemptions, go to
www.le.state.ut.us and look in Utah Laws/ Search Code. As for the windsurfer
or board sailor as called here, they are exempt as well. That's found at
Utah Motor Vehicles / Boat registration "Only motorboats and sailboats must
be registered  and numbered.  Boats exempt from Utah registration and
numbering include sailboards, and properly registered motorboats and
sailboats owned by residents of another state which have not been in Utah
more than 14 days in a calendar year." Enjoy.
  -Ben



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From: Pat <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Tsunamis
Date: 13 Apr 2000 17:49:42 -0600

Are you ready for tsunamis?  Great Salt Lake enters into the picture in
paragraph 13.  From the L.A. Times:
http://www.latimes.com:80/news/state/20000413/t000034886.html

Pat Swigart
"Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?"
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144
http://www.sailzz.com

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From: "Kelly Ragsdale" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Tsunamis
Date: 13 Apr 2000 22:33:01 -0600

Pat...
I have not met you, but I think you deserve a thank you from all of us who
are interested in the Great Salt Lake ecology and the surrounding region. I
appreciate the links and research you provide.

It is good reading, for us that don't have the time to research very
interest we have. And it beats the recent trailer weight saga, as far as my
interest goes.

Kelly

stop by and say hi!




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sid <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) RE: (Utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 14 Apr 2000 14:41:30 -0600


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 2:33 PM

Windsurfers are exempt from registration requirements in Utah.

Any vessel that is powered by motor or sail (except windsurfers) must be
registered in this State.

Regarding trailer registration;  Even if you are traveling out of Utah,  you
do not need to register your trailer (under the gvw weight).  As long as you
are complying with the laws of your residence state you have 14 day grace
period to travel in any other state.  We did get a few tickets when we were
taking our hobies through Nevada and California but these tickets were
always dismissed when we produced a copy of the Utah law.  We eventually
carried a copy of this law with us.  It is obtainable from DMV.




> Well I use to have three windsurfers (10 years ago) and they needed
registration.  Rangers weren't very nice about it either and my brother was
a ranger. No breaks either.  I thought it was pretty stupid.  No one put
numbers on their wind surfers, just put on the annual sticker and they would
usually leave you alone.  Sometimes not.
>
> Dave Jensen
>
> Rich Osborne wrote:
>
> > It is my understanding that in Utah if it has a sail on it, it needs to
be registered, although I am not sure as to how they handle windsurfers.
They may be exempt, but I defer to others on that.  If you have a 10' rowing
dinghy, or a canoe, no registration (human powered).  Hoist a sail on either
and registration is required.
> >
> > Concerning trailers, in Utah it is based on the weight of the trailer,
and I seem to recall that it needs to exceed about 450-500 lbs. before
license and registration are required.  Most small utility trailers and
dinghy trailers do not need to be licensed, although they will license them
for you and will not necessarily tell you that it isn't required (my
experience).  It is also my understanding that as long as a Utah legal,
non-licensed trailer is attached to a Utah vehicle, it can be legally towed
in any state (I do this about a dozen times a year in CA and NV).
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > ----------
> > From:   Glen Martinsen[SMTP:[e-mail]]
> > Sent:   Thursday, April 13, 2000 10:20 AM
> > To:     Utah-Sailing (E-mail)
> > Subject:        (utah-sailing) Registration
> >
> > What is the legality of registration.  Based on length?  Horsepower?  A
14'
> > Hobie with no motor, and you occasionally sail standing up could qualify
as
> > a windsurfer?
> >
> > Gravity...It's Not Just a Good Idea. It's the Law
> >
> > * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
> >
>
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >    Part 1.2    Type: application/ms-tnef
> >            Encoding: base64
>
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>
>


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From: Pat <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Tsunamis
Date: 14 Apr 2000 16:37:58 -0600

Thanks for the kind words.

Pat Swigart
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144
http://www.sailzz.com

Kelly Ragsdale wrote:
>
> Pat...
> I have not met you, but I think you deserve a thank you from all of us who
> are interested in the Great Salt Lake ecology and the surrounding region. I
> appreciate the links and research you provide.
>
> It is good reading, for us that don't have the time to research very
> interest we have. And it beats the recent trailer weight saga, as far as my
> interest goes.
>
> Kelly
>
> stop by and say hi!
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 14 Apr 2000 22:54:37 EDT

I will be giving a "primer" on celestial nav at Antelope Island  during one
of our cruises this summer ( specific date to be announced)  It is a
suprisingly simple process and an intensely rewarding way to navigate across
an ocean.  Unfortunately too many people have written books the size of the
Los Angeles phone directory telling us how complicated it is , scaring most
people away from sextants .

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ken Parsons" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 15 Apr 2000 22:52:27 -0600

Count me in!  I bought a sextant in March and took some sightings during a
cruise in the Caribbean.  It was fascinating.  However, I haven't even had
the time to reduce the sightings yet, so I don't know how good I was.
Guess I'll get to that after taxes.

I'm looking forward to it.

Ken

----------
> From: [e-mail]
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
> Date: Friday, April 14, 2000 8:54 PM
>
> I will be giving a "primer" on celestial nav at Antelope Island  during
one
> of our cruises this summer ( specific date to be announced)  It is a
> suprisingly simple process and an intensely rewarding way to navigate
across
> an ocean.  Unfortunately too many people have written books the size of
the
> Los Angeles phone directory telling us how complicated it is , scaring
most
> people away from sextants .
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pat <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Losing Pieces
Date: 17 Apr 2000 07:53:20 -0600

Pronounce it like "hooker" if you want but it still smells like a dead
rose by any name.  The lake and its islands are not unified and
therefore not protected.  Somebody's playing Monopoly and wants a hotel.
http://www.sltrib.com:80/04162000/utah/41777.htm

Pat
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144
http://www.sailzz.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) Bargin
Date: 17 Apr 2000 20:28:52 -0700

For all of you new devotees  of celestial navigation, I have a unique,
although uncertified, (The Plath factory was leveled in the closing
months of WW II.) WW II German U-Boat Plath Sextant. It has a
registration number, a German Reichstag (?) and Swastika engraving and I
was told it came from a German U-Boat. I purchased it from the widow of
an American sub commander about 20 years ago.

A real bargain. Call for details. Own a piece of history.

Cheers,

Ray and Rocky


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From: "Kelly Ragsdale" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Bargin
Date: 17 Apr 2000 21:32:29 -0600

Ray...
Why would you want to sell this? Since you around for WW 1, isn't this new
technology for you?

Kelly




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From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Bargin
Date: 18 Apr 2000 04:15:27 -0700

Actually, Kelly, it is. And that is why I will unload it for a modest price,
say, $15k. Too high tech for me.

The idiocy of needing celestial navigation is obvious; if you wanted to know
where you were, why would you look up? Myself, I would look down, cause that's
where I'm standing.

As for getting anywhere, just ask. There's all sorts of traveler help
organizations. Flip Wilson documented Columbus' discovery of the new world, he
just asked. No harm in just asking, "Which way's America?"

"Which way's Tahiti?" it worked for Captain Cook. Got him into a lot of hot
water though.

And they have the long string practice of exploration if you are not certain
where you want to go. Tie it off when you leave. You want to come home? Follow
the string. Someone have mail for you? Follow the string. Leave a forwarding
address? Tie the string to a stake, and start a new string. The mailman will
find you.

I can see Tim Adams now, showing the navigation technique. I'm certain his
position will always be closer to home than the others. He is very good with
numbers.

Mahalo,

Ray and his commander in charge of string, Rocky.

And I have seen it over and over in movies, where the commander turns to the
first mate, (even in space ships), and speaks out, "Take us us home." Just
have THAT guy around with you.




Kelly Ragsdale wrote:

> Ray...
> Why would you want to sell this? Since you around for WW 1, isn't this new
> technology for you?
>
> Kelly
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).


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From: "kellycpi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Bargin
Date: 18 Apr 2000 10:03:24 -0600

Ray...

I saw a modern improvement on a lead line the other day. It is even ocean
friendly! Do you still use one of those too?

Kelly Ragsdale



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From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Bargin
Date: 18 Apr 2000 14:06:16 -0600

Not a chance. I've been using depleted uranium since the 70's.
Actually, the reason the price on the Nazi U-Boat sextant is so cheap is
I can't use it since I don't speak German.

I had the same problem with my Tamaya, no Japanese either.

RT


Actually, for some time in the IOR handicap days (70's/80's a lead line
was a REQUIRED device with a 30' 1/4" floating line. It was called a
heaving line and used to send a messenger line to a MOB. The MOB victim,
in theory, should he not get knocked unconscious by the impact of the
lead weighted line, would grab the messenger and pull the "U" buoy and
MOP closer to him.

The story goes that you never wanted to go sailing with the pitching
staff of the NY Yankees, and fall overboard.

Thought you had me, huh?

kellycpi wrote:
>
> Ray...
>
> I saw a modern improvement on a lead line the other day. It is even ocean
> friendly! Do you still use one of those too?
>
> Kelly Ragsdale
>
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From: "kellycpi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Bargin
Date: 18 Apr 2000 14:12:58 -0600

Ray..
You are a virtual bottomless pit of sailing knowledge. Or is that a
bottomless bilge?


Kelly Ragsdale



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From: Wes Peters <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Bargin
Date: 18 Apr 2000 15:44:02 -0600

Ray Tostado wrote:
>
> Not a chance. I've been using depleted uranium since the 70's.

If you need to upgrade, I know a guy in Kaysville who has 1 cm^3 of
plutonium.  He might make you a deal.

--
            "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters                                                         Softweyr LLC
[e-mail]                                           http://softweyr.com/

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From: "kellycpi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Bargin
Date: 18 Apr 2000 15:52:30 -0600

Ray's sailing in Southern California water now. He can recharge it by just
sailing around!
Kelly Ragsdale



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From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Bargin
Date: 18 Apr 2000 15:58:56 -0600

Wha'da you mean virtual? I'm a for real thing whatever you select to
label me!

AND I am at this very moment sneaking around Salt Lake City. No one is
safe.

RT

kellycpi wrote:
>
> Ray..
> You are a virtual bottomless pit of sailing knowledge. Or is that a
> bottomless bilge?
>
> Kelly Ragsdale
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).

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From: "kellycpi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Bargin
Date: 18 Apr 2000 16:15:58 -0600

Oops! You know what I mean. It's a compliment.
Kelly Ragsdale



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (utah-sailing) Island Serenade Cruise
Date: 18 Apr 2000 22:54:46 EDT

I just wanted to extend my personal thanks to all of you that came along on
the Island Serenade Cruise.  I hope everyone had a great time.  It was quite
nice I thought.
I hope we can do it again next year.
Terry, GSLYC

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From: Taciturn <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Poaching
Date: 18 Apr 2000 20:58:36 -0600

Sad story:
http://www.sltrib.com:80/04182000/utah/42254.htm

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From: Taciturn <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Catalina 25/250 & SailFest
Date: 18 Apr 2000 21:15:46 -0600

Here is a listing for the SailFest for the National Regata Racing Page
regarding the Great Salt Lake:
http://www.best.com/~c25c250/restricted/racing.html

Pat Swigart
"Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?"
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144
http://www.sailzz.com

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From: Taciturn <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Nature Conservancy
Date: 19 Apr 2000 07:34:12 -0600

Here are the real heroes in GSL preservation, there at it again.  Wonder
if they could rescue Fremont Island from the clutches of new little
town, Hooper, that would like to "have a little fun with it."

http://www.sltrib.com:80/04192000/utah/42519.htm

Pat Swigart
"Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?"
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144
http://www.sailzz.com

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From: Taciturn <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Antelope Is. Hunting
Date: 19 Apr 2000 07:36:58 -0600

Board Ponders Antelope Island
Hunting:http://www.sltrib.com:80/04192000/utah/42477.htm

Pat Swigart
"Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?"
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144
http://www.sailzz.com

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From: [e-mail] (Sanford Meek)
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) gps for gsl
Date: 19 Apr 2000 14:05:29 -0700

At 22:54 4/14/0 -0400, [e-mail] wrote:
Unfortunately too many people have written books the size of the
>Los Angeles phone directory telling us how complicated it is , scaring most
>people away from sextants .


You should try to find a copy of 'Celestial Navigation - a complete onboard
handbook'  (the name's close to this anyway).  The author uses the Marquis
de St. Hilliers's (sp?) method.  He includes tables for 1999 - 2004.  Not
the full detailed tables but good enough to learn with and good enough to
get within a couple of miles.

I've got a copy and will be glad to bring it out if your cruise is when I'm
in town.  You can borrow it if I'm out.  Most of July I'll be in the far
north of Ellesmere Is.

Sandy


Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]



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From: Wes Peters <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Antelope Is. Hunting
Date: 19 Apr 2000 17:40:33 -0600

Taciturn wrote:
>
> Board Ponders Antelope Island
> Hunting:http://www.sltrib.com:80/04192000/utah/42477.htm
>
> Pat Swigart
> "Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?"
> http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144
> http://www.sailzz.com

Pat,

First of all, thanks for keeping us all up-to-date on what's going on
around GSL.  I don't read the papers as much as I should, and don't
bother with TV news for anything other than the current weather, so
I'd never hear about most of this if you didn't shove it in my face.  ;^)

If you, or another enterprising utah-sailing member, could issue reminders
for the meetings people who actually care about GSL and Antelope Island
might travel to, on May 16, 17, and 18, we might get some turnout at the
meetings.  I'm planning to go to the SL county meeting, and perhaps the
Davis county meeting as well.

I'd like to add that I view hunting as a perfectily legitimate pastime,
but this plan smacks of boondoggle.  What an idiotic idea, issuing one
free and one auctioned hunting permit per year.

--
            "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters                                                         Softweyr LLC
[e-mail]                                           http://softweyr.com/

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "linda kelley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) Re: (gslyc) Island Serenade Cruise
Date: 19 Apr 2000 20:39:06 -0600

Terry,

What!?  You mean all aboard the Island Serenade, including me, thought about
letting you know how much we enjoyed the cruise but just didn't get around
to it?  Larry and I had a great time!  We know a little about the planning
that goes into throwing a party - not to mention checking lists and
collecting last minute money - and this was a good one.  You even looked as
if you were having a good time yourself!  Gene Morgan welcoming folks as
they boarded was friendly and welcoming.  Thanks for the brightly colored
paper lei - the right accessory for those of us who dressed for the cold
instead of the tropics.  It was great to see so many children enjoying the
cruise.  We enjoyed the food (thank heaven it kept coming!) and the bar - an
uncomplicated, legal, drink in the middle of the Great Salt Lake!  The bar
staff was cheerful and after Larry told them only once the name of the wine
he wanted............ and that it was red............ and that it was not
likely to be found in the icebox....... they didn't forget.  (Have you
thought about becoming a wine consultant before the "world" comes here?)  I
would have enjoyed knowing how many people aboard were from other boating or
yachting organizations.  Anyway, thanks again for giving us the opportunity
to enjoy each others' company on the Great Salt Lake; we'd do it again.

Linda

 >
> -
> >


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Simpson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Re: (gslyc) Island Serenade Cruise
Date: 19 Apr 2000 21:16:23 -0600

> What!?  You mean all aboard the Island Serenade, including me, thought
about
> letting you know how much we enjoyed the cruise but just didn't get around
> to it?

Me too Linda, thank you...only, which person were you? I was the one in the
red motorcycle jacket carrying the helmet...

Kurt Simpson


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bryant Pratt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) Juniors Sailing Program Semnar
Date: 20 Apr 2000 11:01:43 -0600

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls,

    Come one, come all and learn about the wonderful Juniors
Sailing Program at the Great Salt Lake.  Lots of FUN sailing
events and sailing related activities for boy and girls from
8 through 17 years of age are planned for this year.  Tammy
Silver, Juniors Program Chair, will share her vision and
present the ambitious schedule of events.  Requirements and
fees will also be presented.  Come prepared to join-up for a
full summer of educational and fun off- and on-the-water
activities.  Remember to bring the kids!

    This presentation will be held at 7 p.m. on Monday,
April 24, in the 3rd. floor lecture hall in the Salt Lake
City Main Library, 209 East 500 South.  The seminar is FREE
to all!

    Sadly, this will be the 10th and final presentation in
the Great Salt Lake Yacht Club's annual FREE Sailing
Seminars series for this year.  Watch your mail for
announcements of future presentations throughout the year.

    I want to take this opportunity to thank each of you who
have attended this year's seminars.  Your participation has
made this year's series the best.  Thank you all!

Bryant Pratt
Vice Commodore, GSLYC



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From: "Kitts, Jan (MED, OEC)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) Insurance
Date: 20 Apr 2000 18:45:17 -0500

Typically, how much are monthly/yearly rates to insure a 22' - 24'
sailboat?  Is there an insurer that tends to give better rates for
sailboats?

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wes Peters <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Insurance
Date: 21 Apr 2000 00:46:47 -0600

"Kitts, Jan (MED, OEC)" wrote:
>
> Typically, how much are monthly/yearly rates to insure a 22' - 24'
> sailboat?  Is there an insurer that tends to give better rates for
> sailboats?

$100/year, covers everything except sails during races.  ;^)

--
            "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters                                                         Softweyr LLC
[e-mail]                                           http://softweyr.com/

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wes Peters <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Registration
Date: 21 Apr 2000 00:56:37 -0600

Diana Goodell wrote:
>
> One more to the list - I have not received registration for Pack A Lunch.
> Glad Ranger Bob will be 'tickled pink' if we have them stuck to our boats
> in May!

Don't be fooled into thinking you have to a registration sticker on your
boat just to float it in YOUR slip at GSL Marina.  Contrary to what Ranger
Bob and Ranger Clint think, once they lease that water to you, it becomes
your "domicile" and they don't get to ticket you on your own "property"
just because the state is your landlord.  Don't take my word for it, the
Salt Lake County prosecuting attorney has agreed with me twice on this in
recent years.

Moving your boat out of the slip is another issue entirely - "operating"
the boat on state waterways without a valid registration is strictly
verboten, as is moving it on a trailer.

--
            "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters                                                         Softweyr LLC
[e-mail]                                           http://softweyr.com/

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Insurance
Date: 21 Apr 2000 12:36:03 -0700

Jan

I found that by insuring through WEST MARINE, I was able to side step a survey, and
save 50% under other quotes.

Rocky, and Ray did OK' too.

Wes Peters wrote:

> "Kitts, Jan (MED, OEC)" wrote:
> >
> > Typically, how much are monthly/yearly rates to insure a 22' - 24'
> > sailboat?  Is there an insurer that tends to give better rates for
> > sailboats?
>
> $100/year, covers everything except sails during races.  ;^)
>
> --
>             "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
>
> Wes Peters                                                         Softweyr LLC
> [e-mail]                                           http://softweyr.com/
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Insurance
Date: 21 Apr 2000 16:36:07 -0700

Jan

I will also give you my SLC auto broker who got me insurance on RUNAWAY for $87 a year
including a $5k added equipment blanket, plus all inclusions such as racing.   What was
not covered was road side service and  bottom cleaning.  278-
4451  Craig Bennion.. Just mention my name. He does 11 vehicles for me, a house, and
Rocky's college trust fund.

Cheers,

RT

Ray Tostado wrote:

> Jan
>
> I found that by insuring through WEST MARINE, I was able to side step a survey, and
> save 50% under other quotes.
>
> Rocky, and Ray did OK' too.
>
> Wes Peters wrote:
>
> > "Kitts, Jan (MED, OEC)" wrote:
> > >
> > > Typically, how much are monthly/yearly rates to insure a 22' - 24'
> > > sailboat?  Is there an insurer that tends to give better rates for
> > > sailboats?
> >
> > $100/year, covers everything except sails during races.  ;^)
> >
> > --
> >             "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
> >
> > Wes Peters                                                         Softweyr LLC
> > [e-mail]                                           http://softweyr.com/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Taciturn <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News: FOGSL Water Quality
Date: 23 Apr 2000 21:11:48 -0600

Friends of Great Salt Lake

April 2000 General Meeting Speaker:
Richard Denton - Utah Division of Water Quality
Monitoring Great Salt Lake Water Quality

Tuesday, 25 April 2000, 7 to 9 p.m. at the Sugarhouse Garden Center 1650
East 2100 South in Salt Lake City.

Join us for a presentation by Richard Denton about monitoring GSL water
quality.

The Division of Water Quality monitoring section monitors on a monthly
basis
about 250 stream and river sites, 210 industrial and municipal UPDES
discharges, and 100 other special project sites. In addition, 175 lakes
and
reservoirs including the Great Salt Lake and 250
groundwater permit wells are sampled at various times. Various other
emergency situations such as spills are investigated as they occur.

DWQ has been involved in monitoring the Great Salt Lake and the
associated
watersheds since 1975. It has a strong water chemistry database on many
sites and a strong macroinvertebrate database at selected sites. During
the
mid 1980's the monitoring program was placed on hold. In 1993 in
cooperation
with Wally Gwynn with the Utah Geological Survey, and Davis County, DWQ
began sampling the lake. Four sites in Gunnison Bay, six sites in
Gilbert
Bay, and one site in Farmington Bay have been sampled at various depths
for
major cations and anions, heavy metals, nitrites, and chlorophyl A.
Field
observations such as the status of the railroad culverts, occurrence of
bi-directional flow, and brine shrimp presence are recorded.
___________________________

Upcoming events:

Thursday, May 4, 2000 - Board Meeting, 7:00 pm
May 5-13, 2000 - Great Salt Lake Bird Festival,
http://www.greatsaltlakebirdfest.com
Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - General Meeting, 7:00 pm, Tom Wharton slide show
presentation.
Thursday, June 1, 2000 - Board Meeting, 7:00 pm
Saturday, June 3, 2000 - Layton Wetlands Preserve Field Trip
___________________________

General meetings are held at the Sugarhouse Garden Center, located in
the
northeast corner of Sugarhouse Park, 1650 E 2100 S, in Salt Lake City.
Board meetings are held at the Salt Lake County Complex at 2001 S State,
Room S3009, in Salt Lake City.

Visit our web site at http://www.fogsl.org


Message Forwarded by
Pat Swigart
"Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?"
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144
http://www.sailzz.com

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From: "Kitts, Jan (MED, OEC)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Insurance
Date: 24 Apr 2000 18:28:27 -0500

Thanks Ray.  Being somewhat allergic to insurance agents, I may just go
through West Marine, but I appreciate the assistance.

Isn't Rocky a little old to start college, or is he just a late bloomer.

Jan

    -----Original Message-----
    From:    Ray Tostado [SMTP:[e-mail]]
    Sent:    Friday, April 21, 2000 5:36 PM
    To:    [e-mail]
    Subject:    Re: (utah-sailing) Insurance

    Jan

    I will also give you my SLC auto broker who got me insurance on
RUNAWAY for $87 a year
    including a $5k added equipment blanket, plus all inclusions
such as racing.   What was
    not covered was road side service and  bottom cleaning.  278-
    4451  Craig Bennion.. Just mention my name. He does 11 vehicles
for me, a house, and
    Rocky's college trust fund.

    Cheers,

    RT

    Ray Tostado wrote:

    > Jan
    >
    > I found that by insuring through WEST MARINE, I was able to
side step a survey, and
    > save 50% under other quotes.
    >
    > Rocky, and Ray did OK' too.
    >
    > Wes Peters wrote:
    >
    > > "Kitts, Jan (MED, OEC)" wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Typically, how much are monthly/yearly rates to insure a
22' - 24'
    > > > sailboat?  Is there an insurer that tends to give better
rates for
    > > > sailboats?
    > >
    > > $100/year, covers everything except sails during races.  ;^)
    > >
    > > --
    > >             "Where am I, and what am I doing in this
handbasket?"
    > >
    > > Wes Peters
Softweyr LLC
    > > [e-mail]
http://softweyr.com/
    > >
    > > * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail]
with
    > > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no
quotes).
    >
    > * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail]
with
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From: Taciturn <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Legacy Shmegacy
Date: 25 Apr 2000 18:54:24 -0600

Buckminster Fuller would have loved this.  He always said that just
because the top of a piano drifts by and saves one's life after the ship
sinks doesn't mean that the best design for a life preserver should
resemble a piano top.  He says that designers in solving modern problems
are too often "clinging to piano tops."  Aren't you listening Leavitt?
A good idea will preserve our Great Salt Lake and its hinterlands, I
should think.  Here's the Tribune article:
     http://www.sltrib.com:80/04252000/utah/44113.htm

Pat Swigart
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144
http://www.sailzz.com

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (utah-sailing) Jr. Seminar at the Library
Date: 25 Apr 2000 21:02:24 EDT

Just wanted to thank everyone who came to the Junior seminar at the Library
on the 24th.  Hope everyone had fun.  Hope everyone is looking forward to
this year and the Sailfest!  If you see someone who wasn't there, be sure and
tell them how much fun the "Who wants to be a Sailor" game was!

See Ya Soon!

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From: Ray Tostado <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) [Fwd: Fw: [Fwd: FW: JOTD]]
Date: 26 Apr 2000 08:33:56 -0700

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>
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> > >
> >
> > >interesting stats...
> > >the picture says it all!!!
> > >
> > >> > What a Difference a Century Makes
> > >> > In the summer of 1900...
> > >> > The average life expectancy in the United States was 47.
> > >> > Only 14% of the homes in the United States had a bathtub.
> > >> > Only 8% of the homes had a telephone.
> > >> > There were only 8,000 cars in the US and only 144 miles of paved
> roads.
> > >> > The maximum speed limit in most cities was 10 mph.
> > >> > The average wage in the US was 22 cents an hour.
> > >> >
> > >> > And finally, here's another BIG difference:
> > >> > Check out the picture.............
> > >> >
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
>
>
>

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------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFAED5.1BBCFA60--


--------------D1E85790D41241F11BCE08C4--


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alyxandra K. MacLeod" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) Motor Needed
Date: 27 Apr 2000 15:26:28 -0600

Hi All,
I need an outboard for my C22.  Where is the best place?  I would
like to buy one new if I can.  Probably 4 or 5 horse 4 stroke.
Any suggestions?  And what about would it run me?
Thanks,
Cyn

--
"What does that mean?"
"It means the Matrix cannot tell you who you are."

ICQ #10306498
http://www.utahdogs.com



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Taciturn <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Legacy Study
Date: 27 Apr 2000 16:27:13 -0600

New Traffic Study May Help Legacy Highway Proponents:
http://www.sltrib.com:80/04272000/utah/44687.htm

Pat Swigart
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144
http://www.sailzz.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sanford Meek)
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Motor Needed
Date: 27 Apr 2000 17:26:24 -0700

At 15:26 4/27/0 -0600, Alyxandra K. MacLeod wrote:
>Hi All,
>I need an outboard for my C22.  Where is the best place?  I would
>like to buy one new if I can.  Probably 4 or 5 horse 4 stroke.
>Any suggestions?  And what about would it run me?


I would definately go with a four cycle if you can afford the cost.
They're more than the two cycles (and a bit heavier) but they are much
better.  I have a Honda.  It starts right up every spring with a pull or
two.  It uses regular gas - no mixing of oils.  It gets about 50% better
gas milage than a two cycle.  It doesn't put 30% of the gas and oil into
the water like two cycles do.  This last reason is way two cycles are being
banned in many areas - Lake Tahoe for instance.  More places are going to
be banning two cycles (this also gets rid of the pwcs) so if you intend on
trailering the C22 (a good reason to own one) get the four cycle.

Honda makes a 5 HP.  The newer Hondas are much lighter than the older ones
like I have.

I've seen used ones occasionally.

I bought mine some time ago at Duce Marine.  Check also at the Honda dealer
(lawn mower and other small engines dealer not the cars) on 9th east at
something like 30th south.  At least they used to be there.  Expect to pay
a lot for a new motor - $1200 to $1500.  I haven't seen the latest prices
but they're expensive.

Yamaha also makes a four cycle that people like.

Everyone else is coming out with four cycles, too.  I'm very familiar with
the Honda and think they're great.  Other folks that I know swear by the
Yamaha.  I haven't heard about the other brands.

Sandy


Sanford Meek
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
University of Utah
[phone]
[e-mail]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Craig Pearson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Motor Needed
Date: 27 Apr 2000 17:37:16 -0600

I had a new Honda 5hp for about a year or more and had nothing but trouble
with it. After taking it back in for repair about 5 times for the same part
breaking over and over again Duce Marine gave me a refund in full. I then
bought a Honda 8hp which is a much better motor. Duce told me that they had
so much trouble with the Honda 5hp that they stopped carrying it(they will
special order it if that is what you want). I recommend the 4 stroke motors
but if you need a 4 or 5 hp then I would look to something other than
Honda.  Craig






>I need an outboard for my C22.  Where is the best place?  I would
>like to buy one new if I can.  Probably 4 or 5 horse 4 stroke.
>Any suggestions?  And what about would it run me?
>Thanks,
>Cyn
>
>--
>"What does that mean?"
>"It means the Matrix cannot tell you who you are."
>
>ICQ #10306498
>http://www.utahdogs.com
>
>
>
>* To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
>* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kelly Ragsdale" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Motor Needed
Date: 27 Apr 2000 21:54:15 -0600

I had a C22 for a while, I would put a 5-6 hp on it for the Great Salt Lake
and also get a high torque prop pitch. Don't remember what mine is, but it
gives a lot of thrust against the high winds. I had a Yamaha 6hp. I can't
tell you how it has held up because I had the boat in So. Calif. to sell and
the outboard was stolen.

Anyway, I think the 4 strokes are nice but if I remember right you can't get
one with an alternator for charging until you get up in to the 8hp range. On
my boat now I have a Nissan from West Marine. They are a good price and has
been a very reliable motor. I have had it for 6 yrs now and I think I've
changed the plugs?

Kelly




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From: "BILL HARRIS" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Motor Needed
Date: 28 Jan 2000 04:27:35 -0700

I went with the Evenrude 9.9, four stroke, electric start, extra long shaft.
The electric start makes it heavy but it is sure worth it to me.  I bought
it at Robinson Marine for $2500.  It pushes The Intoxicator at about 61/2
knots, 7 with no wind.  I did have to use an Evenrude bracket because of the
xtra weight, 110 pounds I think.  Add $400 for that.  Beating a Tooele
Twister to the marina...Priceless.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 2:26 PM


> Hi All,
> I need an outboard for my C22.  Where is the best place?  I would
> like to buy one new if I can.  Probably 4 or 5 horse 4 stroke.
> Any suggestions?  And what about would it run me?
> Thanks,
> Cyn
>
> --
> "What does that mean?"
> "It means the Matrix cannot tell you who you are."
>
> ICQ #10306498
> http://www.utahdogs.com
>
>
>
> * To unsubscribe send email to [e-mail] with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eugene Morgan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Motor Needed
Date: 28 Apr 2000 08:49:21 -0700

Ditto on the Nissan.  I had a 5 HP Nissan long shaft on Highwire, it always
started, winter or summer.  I also have changed the plug once.  One other
point, 4 strokes are nice, but can be very heavy when compared to a 2 stroke
of the same power, so raising the little bugger out of the water can be a
little tuff.  The little 5 HP moved Highwire, a Capri 30 of 5000lbs, very
nicely even in a big blow.  The biggest problem was that in ruff water the
prop would come out of the water especially when I would move away from the
back of the boat.

Summary:  I like the 5hp 2 stroke Nissan and think it would be a good
candidate for a Catalina 22.


 -----Original Message-----
Sent:    Thursday, April 27, 2000 9:54 PM

I had a C22 for a while, I would put a 5-6 hp on it for the Great Salt Lake
and also get a high torque prop pitch. Don't remember what mine is, but it
gives a lot of thrust against the high winds. I had a Yamaha 6hp. I can't
tell you how it has held up because I had the boat in So. Calif. to sell and
the outboard was stolen.

Anyway, I think the 4 strokes are nice but if I remember right you can't get
one with an alternator for charging until you get up in to the 8hp range. On
my boat now I have a Nissan from West Marine. They are a good price and has
been a very reliable motor. I have had it for 6 yrs now and I think I've
changed the plugs?

Kelly




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From: "Alyxandra K. MacLeod" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Motor Needed
Date: 28 Apr 2000 14:29:07 -0600

Well, it might just be the Nissan... Marine Products wants $1059 for the 5hp -
4stroke long shaft Nissan. Not too bad a deal.  We'll be cruisin' along pretty
darn soon with the rest o' ya!  Oh and no, I'm not quite skilled enough to be
sailing in and out of the marina... yet.
Cyn

Eugene Morgan wrote:

> Ditto on the Nissan.  I had a 5 HP Nissan long shaft on Highwire, it always
> started, winter or summer.  I also have changed the plug once.  One other
> point, 4 strokes are nice, but can be very heavy when compared to a 2 stroke
> of the same power, so raising the little bugger out of the water can be a
> little tuff.  The little 5 HP moved Highwire, a Capri 30 of 5000lbs, very
> nicely even in a big blow.  The biggest problem was that in ruff water the
> prop would come out of the water especially when I would move away from the
> back of the boat.
>
> Summary:  I like the 5hp 2 stroke Nissan and think it would be a good
> candidate for a Catalina 22.
>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSLYC Opening Weekend 2000
Date: 29 Apr 2000 12:57:07 EDT

The Great Salt Lake Yacht Club invites everyone to:
Opening Weekend 2000  'Sailing into the 21st Century"
May 6 and 7 at the GSL State Marina (south shore)
No membership is required to attend and participate in the many events
planned for both days.

Here's a brief listing of events:
-Saturday: Boat Parade & Blessing of the Fleet, Mexican lunch social, Jr.
Program fundraiser face painting, balloon artist, dinghy races, live music
and awards for 'dressed up boats and/or crew'.
-Sunday: Continental breakfast, free 'fun' races (open to all
boats/classes/skills), cruise and raft-up, free sailboat rides, Jr. Program
fundraiser BBQ, and awards presentation.
Many awards will be given for best costumes (21st Century/space/alien) and
for the races.
There will be a small fee for the lunch, live music and breakfast.  Your
lunch ticket will also cover the live music that night.  Non GSLYC members
expect to pay a slightly higher fee for these events (it's only fair). And
please be honest when paying for these events, we will not be monitoring and
watching over everyone.
Sat. begins promptly at 10:30 with the boat parade and Blessing.  Sunday's
B-fast starts at 9:00 and the skipper's meeting for free rides, races and
cruising is promptly at 10:00.
You can find the entire schedule of events listed on the GSLYC.org web page.
Just go to the Home page and click on Opening Weekend Schedule.
If you have questions please contact Terry Martin 364-8217 or at
[e-mail]
Hope to see you at the biggest sailing event of the century (so far anyway)!

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From: Taciturn <[e-mail]>
Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Bird Festival
Date: 29 Apr 2000 13:14:29 -0600

Tours behind the gates to areas normally closed
     http://www.viamagazine.com:80/events_content.asp?eventId=524
Also: see http://www.greatsaltlakebirdfest.com

Pat Swigart
http://www.gecocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144
http://www.sailzz.com

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