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utah-firearms-digest    Tuesday, December 14 1999    Volume 02 : Number 169




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 99 11:04:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: LPU: FW: They're thieves, too.

Regardless of the application of the revenue, the Pittman-Robertson
Act is not only theft but also an unconstitutional infringement of
the RKBA. It is well past time to dump it since it is now quite well
settled that the 2nd Amendment doesn't authorize the National Guard.

Scott

- -----
To: [e-mail]
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 09:34:08 -0600
Subject: LPU: FW: They're thieves, too.
From: "Jim Dexter" <[e-mail]>

The gov't continues to conspire against us.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

It appears that not only are the anti gun groups spreading lies but
they're doing it with stolen money this makes them liars and thieves in
my book. This is the tax dollars paid by sports persons, tax money
designated for sporting use only, i.e.: range development and shooting
safety programs. Contact your Senator and Congressional Representative
immediately or Reno/Clinton will do nothing to prosecute the thieves,
may be too close to home for them to anyway. We can only hope that the
elected representative will initiate prosecution and see it thru this
time.

- -----
OUTDOOR LIFE
NOVEMBER 1999

Show Us Our Money-Are sportsmen's dollars going to the antis?
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has allegedly looted two sportsmen's
conservation programs, sending money to slush funds and possibly to
anti-hunting organizations.  The two programs are the Pittman-Robertson
Act and the Dingell-Johnson Act-legislation that calls for excise taxes on
sporting equipment (P-R on arms and ammunition; D-J on fishing
merchandise).  Money raised is earmarked for state fish and wildlife
conservation projects, but according to a preliminary audit by the General
Accounting Office (GAO), some of the money has been illegally diverted.

As of press time, the House of Representatives' Resources Committee and
the GAO are investigating, and hearings are scheduled.  The Resources
Committee has held some hearings in a "discovery period" (preliminary to
legal and/or legislative action).

Representative Don Young, of Alaska, chairman of the Resources Committee,
did not tiptoe around the intent of those hearings.  In his opening
remarks, he said, "This hearing is about stealing conservation dollars to
float the Fish and Wildlife Service.  The GAO and our investigative staff
found big abuses...We have just scratched the surface of these
abuses-abuses that total millions of dollars."-Frank Miniter



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:51:05 PST
From: "charles lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Shooting ranges near Ogden

Hello,

   I am new to Utah. I was wondering if anyone can point me torwards a
shooting range that is located in Ogden or within a one hour drive. I shoot
a pistol. Preferably, I'm looking for an outdoor range that is open any day
of the week and that doesn't require user fees.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Charles


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:54:00 -0800
From: "Athay, Mark" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Shooting ranges near Ogden

I know there is a range up that way.  I live in Bountiful and the Lion's
Club operates a range just north of the "B" up on the hill at about 1000
North.  It has an excellent rifle range and a good pistol range as well.
The cost is $1.00 per person per day.  They even give you a target to use.

Mark R. Athay  P.E.
NTO Suite 330
[phone]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


- -----Original Message-----
From: charles lee [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 3:51 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Shooting ranges near Ogden



Hello,

   I am new to Utah. I was wondering if anyone can point me torwards a
shooting range that is located in Ogden or within a one hour drive. I shoot
a pistol. Preferably, I'm looking for an outdoor range that is open any day
of the week and that doesn't require user fees.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Charles


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Dec 99 15:26:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: GOUtah! Political Alert #35 - 30 November 1999 1/2

- -----
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:17:15 -0700
From: Gavin Wallace <[e-mail]>
Subject: [gopconservatives] GOUtah! Political Alert #35 - 30 November 1999

GOUtah!
Gun Owners of Utah

Utah's Uncompromising, Independent Gun Rights Network.
No Compromise. No Retreat. No Surrender. Not Now. Not Ever.

Visit our website at http://www.slpsa.org/goutah!

GOUtah! Political Alert #35 - 30 November 1999

Today's Voice of Liberty:

"No one can read our Constitution without concluding that the people who
wrote it wanted their government severely limited; the words 'no' and 'not'
employed in the restraint of government power occur 24 times in the first
seven articles of the Constitution and 22 times more in the Bill of Rights."
- -- Edmund A. Opitz

If you wish to be added to the GOUtah! list, please log onto our website
at http://www.slpsa.org/goutah! or send an e-mail to [e-mail]
or send a fax to [phone] asking to be added to or removed from
the GOUtah! list.

We strongly encourage you to forward, copy and share this information with
others, on the condition that you pass along the entire document intact and
unmodified, and that GOUtah! is clearly indicated as the original source of
the material, unless otherwise noted.

GOUtah! and Utah CCW and Self-Defense
Instructors Organizational Meeting a Great Success!

Salt Lake City-26 November 1999: Nearly 20 of the most active instructors
teaching a majority of Utah's Concealed Firearms Permit applicants have
joined together to form the Utah Self-Defense Instructors Network
(US-DIN!), in order to improve the accessibility and quality of firearms
safety and self-defense training in the state. The organization will also
be involved in grassroots political activity to promote and protect the
rights and interests of Utah's CCW instructors, permit holders, permit
applicants and gun owners in general.

"This organization will be a great asset for professional development and
information exchange for all the self-defense instructors throughout Utah,"
said Winton Clark Aposhian, one of the founders of the group and a member
of the US-DIN! steering committee. The group has adopted a formal mission
statement and voluntary code of professional conduct and practices.

The new organization will also be working closely with Gun Owners of Utah,
a well-established independent grassroots political activist network.
GOUtah! will serve as the political and public information arm of US-DIN!,
providing legislative and public policy analysis, real-time legislative
alerts, as well as education and training of CCW permit holders in
grassroots political involvement, including voter registration and
education, delegate training, citizen lobbying and other related activities.

"The self-defense instructors, along with the 30,000 Utah CCW permit
holders form a significant, highly-motivated political powerbase, with a
major vested interest in the outcome of the current gun rights debate in
our state. We intend for Utah's CCW permit holders to be very aggressive
politically in effectively defending their right to defend themselves and
their families," said Scott Engen, GOUtah's Legislative Director, also a
member of the US-DIN! steering committee.

In an immediate demonstration of their commitment to making self-defense
instruction readily accessible to Utah's citizens, several local CCW
instructors in conjunction with US-DIN! are offering Utah professional
educators CCW training courses at discounted rates. These courses will
satisfy the state training requirements when applying for a Utah CCW
permit. The first of these two-day courses will be held Friday Dec. 10 from
7:00 to 9:00 PM and Saturday Dec. 11 from 9:00 AM to Noon at the Lee Kay
Hunter Education Center, 2100 South 6000 West in Salt Lake City. Teachers
must provide proof of being a professional educator to participate. Contact
Steve Beckstead, a US-DIN! instructor at [phone] or Terry Tate at
[phone] for more information on the teacher's CCW program.

Self-defense instructors interested in joining the US-DIN! organization
should contact Winton Clark Aposhian at [phone] or write to US-DIN!,
PO Box 71677, Salt Lake City, UT 84171 for more information and a schedule
of future activities.


Suggestions for More Effective Dealings with
the Press and Media by Gun Rights Activists

GOUtah! activist N.W. Clayton was recently interviewed by a reporter from a
local television station, who was interested in getting GOUtah!'s take on a
national news story about firearms. The reporter asked some good questions,
and appeared genuinely interested in understanding our side of the story.

After the interview, which took place inside a local gun store, people
stood around and chatted casually for a few minutes. The reporter's
cameraman, who is a gun owner, mentioned that he had been assigned with
another reporter to interview some people at a recent gun show in Salt Lake
City. While they were setting up in the lobby outside the entrance to the
show, numerous people walked by who were either entering the show or
leaving it. According to the cameraman, quite a few of these folks either
made obscene gestures at the news crew or verbally attacked them, using the
foulest possible language.

Such behavior (by responsible gun owners) is simply not acceptable. If a
news reporter is already prejudiced against gun owners, such encounters as
those described by the cameraman are only going to reinforce the reporter's
prejudices. If a reporter is not prejudiced against gun owners, such an
incident might very well make him so.

The fact of the matter is that, while many news editors and upper-level
media executives are personally opposed to the right to keep and bear arms,
there are quite a few individual reporters out there who, regardless of
their personal views on the matter, have a genuine interest in presenting
both sides of the issue. And, while many reporters sometimes parrot the
standard anti-gun myths created by Handgun Control, Inc., this is quite
often due simply to naiveté and ignorance.

GOUtah! was founded partially in response to the fact that little or
nothing was being done by (existing) firearms groups in Utah to educate
local journalists about the facts. To remedy this situation, GOUtah! sends
out media packets and grants frequent interviews in an attempt to inform
and educate Utah's news professionals and, through them, to reach the
general public.

This type of positive interaction with the local media has resulted in a
noticeable improvement in the way that some gun-related news items are
reported. While discernible progress has been made in this area, there is
still a long way to go. Those of us who have worked hard at cultivating
good relationships with some of the people in the local news business are
greatly disturbed to hear that a number of gun owners are trying to destroy
our hard-earned gains.

We need to remember that, even in the age of the Internet, news professionals
are still the main gatekeepers on the information highway. If we are to have
any hope of presenting our side of the issue to the public, we need to be on
good terms with these folks. This doesn't mean that we have to like them or
agree with them all the time. It simply means that we need to be polite and
civil in our interactions with them. If we throw stones at them, we will
only hurt ourselves.
- --
N.W. Clayton is the Associate Communications Director for GOUtah!
[ Continued In Next Message... ]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Dec 99 15:26:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: GOUtah! Political Alert #35 - 30 November 1999 2/2

[ ...Continued From Previous Message ]
GOUtah! Gun Rights Editorial Response of the Week

GOUtah! wishes to recognize the efforts of Utah's proud, dedicated gun
rights advocates for excellence in their editorial responses and letters to
the editor published in Utah's many newspapers. If you have a letter you'd
like to submit or nominate for this recognition, please send a verifiable
copy of the published letter, along with the newspaper name and date of
publication to GOUtah! by email or fax. We'll reprint it here. Get those
word processors humming and let your community know the truth and just
where you stand on the issue!

From the Deseret News, Sunday, October 31, 1999

Disarming citizens leaves them alarmingly defenseless

By Terry L. Thompson

Utah has seen a dramatic increase in legislation regarding the 2002 Winter
Olympics. It seems that anyone with a particular interest has found some
way to intertwine that interest with the pending Olympics in hopes that
the Winter Games will propel his or her agenda to a desired conclusion.

Certainly this has been the case with attempts to restrict Utah's law-abiding
citizens from possession of adequate means of self-preservation. We have seen
misguided, misled, uneducated, political and/or politically appointed pundits
support restrictive gun-control legislation attacking the very citizens that
they purport to protect.

A prime example is the attempt to restrict lawful citizens carrying concealed
weapons into churches or schools. There have been no incidents of lawful,
permit-carrying citizens creating a threat to our children. However,
politically motivated individuals and groups have adopted a popular lie which
befits their socialist agenda. In a nutshell, disarming "common people"
creates a massive dependence on a gloating government. The more dependence on
government, the bigger the bureaucracy, the more powerful, the more expansive,
the more corrupt, the more oppressive.

The individual right to self-preservation is eloquently protected in the
Second Amendment to the Constitution and is recognized as a basic God-given
right. This is as basic as the need for food, water, shelter or clothing.
What must be understood is that the Constitution did not give us this right,
it was recognized by our Founding Fathers as an inalienable right God-given
to every man.

Politicians at all levels, law enforcement administrators, academia and
popular groups in society have falsely claimed that their interest in gun
control is for the common good. Yet their banner is stained with the blood of
countless victims paying the price for their passive nonjustice of societies'
real criminals. The common thread is to find blame with society, relinquishing
personal responsibility for the pain and suffering caused by predatory
criminals.

But look out! Law-abiding citizens who wish to prepare to protect themselves
or their loved ones from the criminals that liberals coddle and condone are
hazardous to society. The height of arrogance is to restrict our ability to
protect ourselves and those we dearly care for, knowing that our protection
cannot be guaranteed.

In a free society, individuals must be allowed the option of "free agency."
Otherwise it is not a free society. There always has been and always will be
those who choose to abuse their free agency. With that choice is an intent to
cause pain, suffering and sorrow for victims of the abuser. We have reasonable
laws governing this abuse, and those violating the law must be held personally
accountable for their actions. This is reasonable and sensible.

It's pathetic and embarrassing to realize that we fall so short of applying
proper justice in our criminal nonjustice system. We fail to apply
punishment to the very criminals that we create laws to effect and in turn
attack law abiding citizens. Politicians have the gall to suggest that
lawful citizens carrying concealed weapons are the problem.

Here is a clue for evaluating your representatives. When they support
legislation aimed at disarming law-abiding citizens, they have discarded prior
existing values and have been seduced by corruption in the political system.
Their continued time in political office will contribute to the benefit of
criminals and serve to decay our precious constitutional protections.

With the "politically correct" pressure on our legislators, it is time that
law enforcement spoke up. We can no longer sit on the sidelines and blindly
hope that our representatives do the right thing. It is time to lend our
support not only as law-abiding citizens but as a group of law-enforcement
professionals. The vast majority of law enforcement realizes that they cannot
guarantee individual safety and therefore fully support the ownership,
possession and concealed carry of firearms by law-abiding citizens.

Law enforcement: Please take it upon yourself to personally let your
representatives know that as a law-enforcement professional, you oppose
gun-control laws in all of their sheep wool and clever disguises. Criminal
control should be a priority, and we support legislation holding criminals
personally responsible for their actions.

Law enforcement: It is time to take a public stance against pending
legislation. This is increasingly critical, as other organizations are
pressuring Utah legislators to enact meaningless restrictions that only
affect you. Don't forget, you are a law-abiding citizen first and a law-
enforcement professional second. Our state representatives need to know
that law enforcement is supporting them. Thus far, the majority of our
legislators have shown incredible courage in the fight against socialism.
Let's help them as they prepare to do the right thing for the political
battles of the future.
===
Terry L. Thompson, a sergeant in the Weber County Sheriff's Office, has
worked in law enforcement for 12 years. He serves on the board of directors
of the Utah Peace Officers Association www.upoa.org. Thompson's opinion is
his own and does not necessarily reflect the position of the Weber County
Sheriff's Office.

GOUtah! Gun Rights (and Wrongs) QuoteWatch.

"The Governor spoke about polls, about soccer moms not wanting guns in
schools and about how the Republicans needed to recapture the agenda...
Never once did he say he wanted to do it because it was the right thing
to do."-- Unidentified Salt Lake County Legislator, regarding comments
made by Utah Governor Mike Leavitt at a closed party caucus last spring
favoring a ban on Utah CCW Permit holders bringing their legally carried
firearms into schools, as quoted by journalist Paul Rolly in the Salt
Lake Tribune, 28 November 1999

"When a 70-year-old retired hunter writes and complains, that fulfills
one of the goals of the magazine."--John Atwood, Editor, Sports Afield,
gloating on the 112-year-old magazine's change in format from fishing and
hunting to new age, yuppie extreme sports coverage, in a recent interview
in the Wall Street Journal.

This concludes the GOUtah! Political and Legislative Alert #35 - 30
November 1999. We hope this information will be of assistance to you in
defending your firearms rights. Remember that getting this information
is meaningless unless YOU ACT ON IT TODAY. If you just read it and dump
it in the trash, your gun rights, and the gun rights of future generations
go in the trash with it. Get involved, get active and get vocal!

Copyright 1999 by GOUtah! All rights reserved.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Dec 99 14:01:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: LPU: FW: Rosie is taking a survey!

- -----
To: [e-mail]
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 09:59:26 -0600
Subject: LPU: FW: Rosie is taking a survey!
From: "Jim Dexter" <[e-mail]>

The Rosie O'Donnell Show is taking a survey and wants to know what you
think.

http://rosieo.warnerbros.com/cmp/rosiepolla.html

It's an open-ended, essay-type survey. You might want to enlighten Rosie
about the 2nd Amendment and how you feel about her opposition to it.
Question 3 is a perfect oppty.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:48:23 -0700
From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Ammunition Restrictions in Texas

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:02:24 -0500
From: "The McGehee Zone" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Fw: Ammunition Restrictions in Texas
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Anyone know anything more about this?

Kevin McGehee
Newnan, Georgia
[e-mail]
http://www.McGeheeZone.com/

People who think the millennium starts in 2000
should count everything else starting at ZERO too.

- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dave Williams <[e-mail]>
To: KL7DW <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 1:32 AM
Subject: Ammunition Restrictions in Texas


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Huddleston <[e-mail]>
To: <Recipient list suppressed>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 7:31 PM
Subject: [ Fwd: Response to Ammo Amount Restrictions at CTD ]


> X-Sender: [e-mail]
> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58
> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 19:31:24 -0700
> To: (Recipient list suppressed)
> From: spiker <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Response to Ammo Amount Restrictions at CTD
>
> From: Billy <[e-mail]>
> Cheaper Than Dirt
> http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/
> 1-800-421-8027
>
> In response to all the Email Cheaper Than Dirt is getting:
> My name is Billy J. Brewer.  I am the Operations Manager at Cheaper Than
> Dirt.  I have been here almost six years.  We currently employ almost =
160
> good hard working friendly family people.  We have Fire Inspections from
> the Fort Worth Fire Department each and every year.  The only items ever
> written up by the Fort Worth Fire Department have been blown bulbs in =
Exit
> Signs and two exit aisles blocked by pallets.  There has never been
> anything said or documented about anything else.  On Wednesday, 22
> September 1999 a Lt. John Bolten of the Fort Worth Fire Department shows
up
> at our company and tells us he has received a report that we have too =
much
> ammo in the building.
>
>
> This date is only seven (7) days after the September 15, 1999 tragic
> shooting at the Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth.
>
> On Thursday, 23 September 1999 Lt. John Bolten of the Fort Worth Fire
> Department presents Article 77 of the 1997 Uniform Fire Code to Cheaper
> Than Dirt and states to us that this is what we need to comply to.  =
Within
> Article 77 there are exceptions.  Under Seciton 7701.1, Exception 4 =
states
> "The possession, transportation, storage and use of small arms ammunition=

> when packaged in accordance with DOT packaging requirements".  Exception =
9
> states "When preempted by federal regulations".  All our sporting
> cartridges are DOT packaged and covered under the Code of Federal
> regulations 49 (CFR 49).  Therefore Cheaper Than Dirt should be exempted
> from Article 77 requirements.  The Fort Worth Fire Department tells us
> these exceptions do not apply to us.
>
> This is obviously a political issue.  The Fort Worth Fire Department has
> required us to have only 10,000 rounds on display in our Retail Showroom
> (this would mean any resident within the City of Fort Worth with over
> 10,000 rounds would be out of compliance and subject to citation) and =
only
> 90,000 rounds in our spinkler protected warehouse (a total of 100,000
> rounds).  We sell over 200,000 rounds daily.  The 100,000 round number =
is
> not documented within Article 77.  It is a number they consider safe.  =
The
> Fort Worth Fire Department is taking Aguila .22 Short cartridges which
does
> not have any smokeless powder in it (we pulled a bullet out of this
> cartridge and showed it to Lt. John Bolten) and making it fall under the
> same guidelines as .50cal BMG cartridges.
>
> As of this writing we have not found a single gun/ammunition/sporting
store
> within the City of Fort Worth that has been contacted by the Fort Worth
> Fire Department for Article 77 compliance.
>
> On 23 November 1999 at 0925 hrs Cheaper Than Dirt was served with =
General
> Complaint Citation B876326 for violation of Section 7701.7.3 Article 77
> UFC-97 by Lt. John Bolten of the Fort Worth Fire Department.
>
> The following is a list of addresses and Emails of the City of Fort =
Worth:
> Fire Chief Larry McMillen
> City of Fort Worth Fire Department
> 1000 Throckmorton Street
> Fort Worth, Tx 76102
>
> Chief Paul H. Rider
> Assistant Fire Marshal
> City of Fort Worth Fire Department
> 1000 Throckmorton Street
> Fort Worth, Tx 76102
>
> Bob Terrell
> City Manager
> City of Fort Worth
> 1000 Throckmorton St.
> Fort Worth, Tx 76102
>
> Mayor Kenneth Barr, Email:  [e-mail]
> District 2 Mayor Pro tem Jim Lane, Email:  [e-mail]
> District 3 Councilmember Chuck Silcox, Email:  [e-mail]
> District 4 Councilmember Becky Haskin, Email:
[e-mail]
> District 5 Councilmember Frank Moss, Email:  [e-mail].u=
s
> District 6 Councilmember Clyde Picht, Email:  [e-mail]
> District 7 Councilmember Jeff Wentworth, Email:
[e-mail]
> District 8 Councilmember Ralph McCloud, Email:  District
[e-mail]
> District 9 Councilmember Wendy Davis, Email:
[e-mail]
>
> City Hall of Fort Worth
> 1000 Throckmorton Street
> Fort Worth, Texas 76102
>
> I am using this Email Letter to respond in general to the large amount =
of
> Emails we are receiving about this issue.  I apologize for not having =
our
> company respond individually as is our practice.  Thank you all for your
> questions, concerns and letters.  Please feel free to spread this Email =
to
> all interested and concerned.  Merry Christmas and God Bless
> You..........Billy J. Brewer
> <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><
> ---------------------------------------
> "But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet
to
> warn the people and the sword comes and takes the life of one of them,
that
> man will be taken away because of his sin, but I will hold the watchman
> accountable for his blood."
> Ezekiel 33:6 (NIV)
> ___________________
> "Blaming guns for Columbine is like blaming
> spoons for Rosie O'Donnell being fat.
> --------------------------------------
> Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control
> --------------------------------------
> <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Dec 99 13:22:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Clinton Sues Gun Makers

- -----
To: [e-mail]
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 09:32:07 -0700
Subject: LPU: FW: Clinton Sues Gun Makers
From: "Jim Dexter" <[e-mail]>

Does Clinton have standing to bring such a suit or does someone have to
shoot him first? :-)

- ----------

White House Prepares Suit Against Gun Makers
Wednesday, December 8, 1999
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON -- The Clinton administration is helping prepare a class-
action suit against gun makers, alleging that guns and how they are
marketed have contributed to violence in public housing projects,
administration officials said Tuesday.

The suit by some or all of the nation's 3,100 local housing authorities
would be patterned on suits filed against the industry by 29 cities and
counties, the officials said.

Those suits claim that gun manufacturers have sold defective products
or marketed them in ways that increase the likelihood that they will
fall into the hands of criminals.

The new legal effort was made known Tuesday and was described by some
officials as more of a threat aimed at bringing gun manufacturers to
the negotiating table than an effort to actually take them to court.

The administration hopes the threat of a national lawsuit will force
gun makers to agree to end practices such as marketing guns that are
impervious to fingerprints. A negotiated agreement would allow the
administration and gun-control advocates to claim a victory at a time
when Congress has rejected new firearms restriction laws wanted by
President Clinton.

"The administration intends to work aggressively to. . . try to work
to reach a settlement with the industry," White House domestic policy
adviser Bruce Reed said. "If settlement is not possible, then the
public housing authorities are prepared to go forward with their suit."

Administration officials said the White House and the Department of
Housing and Urban Development are helping prepare the suit even though
the actual plaintiffs would be independent local authorities that run
federal housing programs.

The White House and HUD want gun makers to agree to a code of conduct
that includes cracking down on disreputable dealers and making safer guns.

"The administration and HUD are ready to sue, but our first priority is
to change the practice of the industry," a HUD official said, speaking
on condition of anonymity.

Some gun makers have declared bankruptcy after suits by local governments
and others have scaled back their product lines and decreased advertising,
according to a countersuit filed by the Second Amendment Foundation,
a gun-rights group.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:10:36 -0700
From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: Federal Lawsuit Against Gun Industry--POLL

gd
==================================================================
Charles C. Hardy
<[e-mail]>

- --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "David A. Hansen" <[e-mail]>


Check out Deseret News Poll on new Federal lawsuits against gun industry.

http://www.desnews.com/

Also, Governor Leavitt must be running scared!  He's actually submitted
to be interviewed
by Tom Draschil on Monday, December 13, 1999 at 5:30 p.m. on AM 630.  I
think he's
seriously worried about losing the support of those of us who actually
uphold the
Constitution in the tradition of our Founding Fathers.

________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 09 Dec 99 17:35:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: FW: They ARE Coming for Your Guns.

- -----
To: [e-mail]
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:29:56 -0700
Subject: FW: They ARE Coming for Your Guns.
From: "Jim Dexter" <[e-mail]>

It's part of the UN agenda.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19991207_xex_un_coming_yo.shtml


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 99 13:24:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: J.D. Williams LTE

If anyone recalls the date of J.D. Williams' recent letter to
the editor (SL Trib iIrc) calling for more victim disarmament,
could you please tell me? Better still if you happen to have
the etext and could provide that as well.

Scott



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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 99 21:50:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: ANNIE's GOT HER GUN

FWIW

"Annie's Got Her Gun"

by Ann Coulter, from George Magazine

About a year ago, a mugger just waltzed right up to me on
a bridge here in Washington, D.C. It was early evening,
and I was a stone's throw from my apartment in what is
considered a nice neighborhood, as neighborhoods go in
the Murder Capital: the richly deserved nickname for
the nation's capital.

I won't belabor my cunning and completely fortuitous escape,
except to say that for the few minutes I was standing there
waiting to be mugged, I was fuming. I knew he knew that I
didn't have a gun.

It's illegal to carry a handgun here in the Murder Capital.
Not merely illegal but a felony that carries up to a five-year
maximum sentence.

Just as I could look at my prospective mugger and see that
he was not the kind of fellow who would be a fanatic about
property rights and bodily integrity, he could see from 50
yards that I was not the type to be committing felonies.

I wanted a gun, but more than that I wanted him to think I
might possibly have a gun. I wanted him to at least accord
me the respect I get from criminals in other cities, where
they have to exercise a little creativity, lying in wait,
sneaking up from behind, hiding in bushes and dark alleyways
- -- that sort of thing. No, in D.C. muggers just walk right
up to you on a brightly lit street. As an apparently
law-abiding citizen, I am ostentatiously defenseless.

But let's forget about completely defenseless me on the
bridge for a moment.

The framers' primary reason for including the right to bear
arms in the Bill of Rights was to allow people to protect
themselves from tyrannical government; just like the
vastly overrated First Amendment. As Alexander Hamilton
observed cheerily in Federalist 29, if the government were
to "form an army of any magnitude that army can never be
formidable to the liberties of the people while there is
a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to
them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to
defend their rights and those of their fellow citizens."

Some may be willing to rely on withering editorials in the
New York Times to preserve their liberty. I'm counting on
a sleek and tasteful SIG-Sauer. If the courts started
interpreting the Second Amendment the way they interpret
the First, we'd have a right to bear nuclear arms by now.

Interestingly, the Supreme Court is incessantly having to
remind Americans of their First Amendment rights, issuing
more than 100 decisions in the past half century alone. The
Court has ruled on the Second Amendment in only a handful
of cases, the last time in 1939.

But still, about half the citizenry deeply, passionately
believe that they have a right to bear arms. Give the First
Amendment no support from the courts for over half a century
and see if anyone remembers why we're supposed to let Nazis
march in Skokie.

But the half of the country that intuitively assumes the
right to bear arms doesn't live in my neighborhood. That's
why I'm getting exasperated with the constitutional argument.
Too few people; girl people in particular; appreciate
the central point: Guns are our friends.

When it comes to the First Amendment, everyone gets warm
patriotic feelings, tearing up over John Stuart Mill's
marketplace of ideas. They think immediately of our right to
engage in political speech, scientific research, avant-garde
art, and to burn politicians in effigy (or maybe that's just
me). Speech on the fringe, like Aryan Nation propaganda or
Hustler magazine is understood to be an unpleasant, if
inevitable, by-product of a freedom we cherish.

But with the Second Amendment, it's all Hustler magazine.
No upside, just school shootings and all those apocryphal
"gun accidents." (In 1945, for every million Americans there
were 350,000 firearms and 18 fatal gun accidents. By 1995,
there were 850,000 firearms per million, and fatal gun
accidents had fallen to six.)

Guns are our friends, because in a world without guns I'm
what is known as prey. Almost all females are. Any male;
even the sickliest 98-pound weakling; could overpower me
in a contest of brute force against brute force. For some
reason, I'm always asked whether I wouldn't prefer a world
without guns. No, I'd prefer a world in which everyone is
armed, even the criminals who mean to cause me harm. Then
I'd at least have a fighting chance.

What the arms-control faithful really want is a world
without violence, not a world without weapons. These are the
ideological descendants of the authors of the Kellogg-Briand
Pact, which purported to outlaw war.  But we can't have a
world without violence, because the world is half male and
testosterone causes homicide. A world with violence; that
is to say, with men; but without weapons is the worst of
all possible worlds for women. As the saying goes, God made
man and woman; Colonel Colt made them equal.

Prey like me use guns against predators about a million
times a year. Fifteen different studies (including those
sponsored by gun control advocates) have arrived at the
following estimates: at the low end, several hundred
thousand times per year; at the high end, several million.

I especially want potential assailants to have to worry
that I might be carrying. In numerous surveys, criminals
have confirmed the blindingly obvious point that they
are disinclined to attack a victim who might be armed.
Countries with those fabulously low crime rates and
fabulously fascistic gun control laws; such as Canada,
the Netherlands, and Britain; have more burglaries of
occupied homes per capita than we do. Canada's burglary
rate of occupied homes is more than three times that of
the armed-to-the-teeth U.S. Although the murder rate is
lower in Britain, rape, robbery, burglary, and assault
are all substantially higher there than in the U.S.

It must be said, the framers were not insensate to the
crime-prevention qualities of firearms. In the late
eighteenth century, standing armies had become nothing more
than roving bands of criminals. The Second Amendment was, in
part, a response to those early cases of police brutality.
(Why is it that the same people who have the least confidence
in the police and the military are the most willing to allow
only the police and the military to have guns?)

Thomas Jefferson, for example, copied into his book of
favorite quotes an observation by Cesare Beccaria, the
founder of the science of criminology: "Laws that forbid
the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither
inclined nor determined to commit  crimes . . . . Such laws
make things worse for the assaulted and better for the
assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent
homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater
confidence than an armed man."

That night in Washington, by the way, I was rescued by a man.
I'm all for men; I like to have them around all the time. But
sometimes they can't be. Sometimes they have to go buy things
for us. More pertinently, sometimes they're ex-husbands coming
after us with machetes. We live in a world in which men are
supposed to freeze when we say no, our bodily integrity is
sacrosanct, we are autonomous beings, I am woman, hear me roar
- -- but we're not allowed to defend ourselves from a physical
attack with the only effective means possible. Just stand
waiting on the bridge and hope for a nice man to come along.

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